Dubious Scholar's page

D'oh, right. Forgot that part.

Assuming your class is giving you your armor proficiency already...

I'm going to go with Chain Shirt here, you're only 1 AC behind optimal and it inflicts almost no meaningful penalties due to Flexible (you're only eating a -1 to stealth and thievery)

Are we allowed to headcanon the head cannon into being sanctioned?

So uh, not sure if serious, considering the date.

One minor note on Horizon Thunder Sphere - it does outscale Shocking Grasp on damage eventually (10.5+7/spell level versus 13+6.5/level) against enemies who don't meet the metal conditions. (Also, the half damage at range on a miss on the 3-action version is nice)

Edit: On Force Fang, it's worth noting that it's a conflux spell that does not involve a strike. Which means you can recharge your spellstrike and then use it without MAP on the same turn. While the later buffing conflux spells can also do that, none of the melee study conflux spells do, so it's the earliest you can get that benefit.

Lost Omens: Arcadia
Lost Omens: Tian Xia

I think these are pretty self-explanatory. G&G gave some nice lore on Arcadia, but these are both fairly ripe to expand on I think?

Esoteric Talents:
Class archetypes, skill feats, and maybe one new class. Just go in on variants of classes (Synthesist summoner gets a home, but this also allows for things like the old shadowblade fighter built around a shape-changing weapon, etc). More skill feats to flesh things out - I feel a lot of skills are narrow and lacking options (medicine is so easy to default into for a reason - let's see more for traditions than just better knowledge checks. Give survival a feat to try and endure conditions, etc.) Not entirely sure what I'd do for a new class here, but Kineticist is what I'd stick in if I could (or something else themed around the flows of energy and directing them, rather than more nuanced spells).

A monk route that's built around using unarmed attacks from ancestry or other feats. Claws, bites, etc.

So a feat chain I suppose, but something like making Powerful Fist apply to all unarmed attacks as a level 1 feat (maybe allowing a bump to d8?), then some further options that are special attacks (e.g. one that uses claws, one that uses bites, something for "other", etc. Maybe a Pounce option?)

The problem is that once you lose the reach, it doesn't actually have any properties that stand out from other, similarly reachless weapons.

"Extra damage when you charge" sounds good... but the lance is already doing less damage because it's a reach weapon. The bonus ends up pretty much just getting you back to zero once you take away Reach.

Without reach a longsword gets the same average damage while adding the option of using slashing damage. The bastard sword offers the Two-hand d12 property, which beats lance 2h for d8 by a ton.

Losing reach while mounted is silly and needs to be dropped, because it just makes reach weapons pointless - you're universally paying at least one die increment for reach, and a horse takes it away without making up for it.

Agh, the suffering of waiting for the next part resumes!

I think it's probably important to note that Sorcerers and Wizards probably have very different knowledge of Arcana despite it being the same skill.

The wizard has book learning like crazy. The sorcerer may have some of that, but they're probably piecing a lot of things together from other sources rather than having a formal education. Now, if they advance that to expert and so on they're probably picking up some books, or doing practical experiments with their power. Maybe finding someone to study under.

No, Fatal Aim is specifically saying Reload can't switch between its 2h and 1.5h grips. (It's not actually ever a 1h weapon - there are restrictions on the off hand, it's more of a 1+ like bows are)

Combination weapons are thematically cool but I agree on them being too conservative.

Most of them have anemic damage dice on at least one mode. Most of them suffer from needing STR to hit in melee and DEX at range, which is costly.

In a pure stats situation, the explosive dogslicer is the best, but it doesn't have a lot of shooting range (but it's 1d6 in both modes and uses dex to hit either way at least).

Gun sword is 1d8 either mode and has a respectable 50ft range increment... except that hitting with it in melee requires STR, which is a limiting factor.

Gunsword is a weapon I really want to make a build around, because I love it conceptually.

I agree that the Jezail is probably a little out of line compared to the Arquebus. If you want a 2h gun and don't want kickback (probably because you didn't go to 14 str), the Jezail is a no-brainer.

Harmona Gun. Who doesn't love the big old elephant gun?

Quiet Allies does a few things:
1) Everyone gets a single roll, which improves the odds of everyone sneaking through even if everyone is trained (this is a matter of statistics)
2) People who don't invest in stealth have a nonzero chance to succeed. Especially if they already had some dex and just were missing skill training (for instance many casters).

The effectiveness may vary by party, but a fighter might still have 14 dex to use a bow as backup (and balance rolls on acrobatics, reflex saves, etc) even if they use plate mail (especially after level 5 stat boosts). A caster probably is going to go for high dex even if they don't invest in stealth. Of course, your fighter may also have 0 dex and you're better off just sneaking slightly ahead of the party to open fights you can't avoid with an ambush.

Spirit Object can benefit from flanking, which actually makes it better than TKP in some cases.

It's pretty well known that a lot of the witch hex cantrips need help.

Not sure there's any way to save Wilding Word though.

So no problems getting knocked out when the eidolon went down? Were you in groups where the eidolon wasn't the main target or fighting against weaker enemies? No problems with critical hits?

I played a dragon eidolon. The eidolon is a fairly soft target. When it gets knocked down, it takes you both out of the fight which kind of sucked both mechanically and thematically.

Dragon breath weapon is about on par with the barbarian breath weapon, but weaker than the sorcerer breath weapon focus point ability given the 1d4 rounds limitation since a sorcerer can blow through its focus spells.

I was working up a psychopomp eidolon healer, but we never got that campaign off the ground.

It feels very wonky, especially compared to the Magus which seems really well done.

Eidolons are just as durable as any of the medium armor types. Same AC (-1 until level 5 for str spreads), plenty of HP, and Summoner has a shield cantrip for them (It's in every tradition, you have no excuse). As a bonus, if you go down, the body drops safely in the back line.

Now, if an enemy is allowed to reach the summoner themselves there can be issues. But that's something you can work around... and a summoner is still more durable than any full spellcaster (because more HP).

Anything that drops an eidolon would probably have dropped a ranger or a rogue or a... etc.

Tender Tendrils wrote:

breithauptclan wrote:

Norade wrote:

Just slather your cartridges in lard or any other sealant and go to town. The game doesn't have rules for fouling or misfires so by RAW you get to keep the water out and have an underwater rifle.

Well, there are rules for Misfires. Just not very historically accurate ones.

Generally players don't really want (they might think they do, but they actually don't) historically accurate firearms, especially flintlock era ones where it literally takes an entire minute to reload and are so inaccurate that you need people to line up and fire in volleys to be effective.

In a world where magic weapons exist the really basic type of firearms would never be used. They simply wouldn't do something you couldn't do better with the "technology" available. So going the route they went makes sense something that is at least viable to use compared to what else is available.

In all honesty... the flintlock firing squad doesn't really seem like it has any advantage over crossbows at all considering the inaccuracy, etc. Similar reload times and such. Bullets getting through armor better was a benefit... up until everyone abandoned heavy armor for obvious reasons. I think that it would have been strictly optimal to go back to crossbows at that point, except of course this is still the era of everything being run by the wealthy and connected, the eternal issue of generals fighting the last war, etc. Guns were what everyone did, therefore more guns (I'll grant that they have much more convenient profiles for transportation, but powder weapons add logistical issues that crossbows don't have due to it being volatile, useless if wet, etc. that counterbalance the advantages of lead shot being more portable, easier to make, etc)

But back to Golarion, yeah... guns are mainly used by the place that has really good guns, and everyone else is using crossbows (or, for the well trained, normal bows). Or they're a evocation mage and getting very well paid by some kingdom to be a living cannon (I love how Secrets of Magic goes into how the different schools fit into the world, and how casters make a living with them).

This, however, is limited to firearms used by individuals. When you're looking at cannons the equation changes completely and even early ones are vastly superior to other options at breaching fortifications or sinking ships.

:( Fox form kitsune still have broken legs. (Why is it necessary to limit them to 10 foot speed when transformed?)

I do have to ask, why holiday22 in '21?

That gets me thinking - what are the ethical ramifications of creating a sentient being that will cease to exist a short while later?

Another thing with the variable stat part that comes to mind? While Recall Knowledge is tied tightly to int, the use of a lore in a practical sense is not.

Earn Income, for instance, may be better rolled with str or dex (for instance, you could make that argument for something like labor lore)

A weapon's maximum range is six range increments. You won't be very accurate, but you can shoot at people 900 feet away.

On the contrary, a high enough level Gunslinger can take Unerring Shot and have no penalties from range increment at all.

Go ahead and shoot away at that poor guy standing 900 feet downrange. Poor guy probably dies before even figuring out what's going on (doubly so if you've got ricochet shot too to hit him from behind...)

Nothing in the book says it isn't. But it's also explicitly stated to be an Arcadian weapon, and Arcadia doesn't have powder weapons generally.

Forensic Investigator is an amazing healer. Take Assurance Medicine and Expert Medicine at 2 and you have guaranteed successes. You can easily rack up all the basic medicine feats fast and you can battle medicine everyone once an hour.

Add Medic Dedication for more nonsense.

Unable to reproduce in:
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I'm noticing behavior where it scrolls the expanded section to the top when opening it. My first guess would be that it has to do with DOM events and their handling. Can you elaborate more on how it appears to be scroll locked? Does it not move, does it move and snap back like it's fighting you, etc?

You note that Legacy doesn't have issues. I'm not seeing the automatic scroll/snap behavior on that tab, so I'm fairly sure the issue lies somewhere in the logic for that.

How loud do you figure the air guns are (or firearms modified to use that)?

How loud is a spoon gun going SPROING?

I do see GMs not allow getting flat-footed on ranged/spells via flanking in general. They interpret the RAI as being clearly melee weapons in that section.

I do think it makes perfect sense that you get the benefit in exchange for being in close though, imo.

keftiu wrote:

Have you read Guns & Gears? There's a fairly lengthy section on the proliferation of tech.

Yeah, hence my confusion. I might be misremembering, but I'm certain the book states that the main limitation for the spread and availability of firearms in the ISR is Alkenstar's monopoly on gunpowder, since only they (and apparently some goblins) know how to make it. There is some coming from Tian Xia, but that obviously doesn't really help either. That is the in-lore reason combination weapons exist. To make the most of their limited supply of black powder.

Nah, Vudra and Qadira also know how to make powder, and Stella Fane managed to steal enough to reverse engineer both powder and firearms. It's still something people guard tightly - everyone has their own recipe. Alkenstar undoubtedly makes the best black powder in the inner sea region though. It's firearms themselves that Alkenstar guards the secrets on so tightly - other places on Golarion make guns, but nobody can match Alkenstar for black powder weapons. (Arcadia is the place with the most competition, though their best weapons are the magic-powered beast guns. The ancient star guns are on a whole different level but nobody alive can reproduce them)

At the same time, it's entirely possible for someone to have done some big thing for a clan. Maybe you saved one of their kids, or something.

Alternatively, it's not unreasonable to say that it's a clan pistol without any clan markings - or marked in a way that it's clear it's a generic not associated with a clan.

If anything, I'd expect that the best pistols sold by the Gunworks are functionally identical to clan pistols anyways (because why wouldn't a master smith turn out their best work consistently), but maybe you need some connections to get them to sell you one. It's not like they're revolutionary weapons Alkenstar and Dongun Hold are keeping for themselves for security - they're just masterpieces created by dwarven smiths.

Themetricsystem wrote:

Be careful, there is no such thing as negligible bulk for sprites so your ammo stores are going to count against you're already super tiny bulk limitations.

True but your mount can carry spare ammo, and it is neglible there. Surely a Gunslinger Sprite has to have saddle bags on the Corgi.

Your ammo is just going to be L for the set of 10 (or 5 for some weapons) instead of -. It's not a huge deal, that's what arrows already are.

Also worth noting that it's offset by halving the bulk of larger items. Your 1 bulk armor becomes L, for instance.

Can also ask party members to tote some of it, considering it's negligible bulk for them if you throw extra sacks of ammo in their backpack.

kodra wrote:

Not sure if this warrants Errata but you might want to indicate how Expert Overdrive (and other class feats like this) impact Critical Successes as well as Successes. If I have an 18 int and am level 3, does Crit Overdrive give me +5 and Success gives me +3?

Core Rulebook, General Rules, p. 443 wrote:

You may need to calculate a fraction of a value, like halving damage. Always round down unless otherwise specified. For example, if a spell deals 7 damage and a creature takes half damage from it, that creature takes 3 damage.

This is part of the Core general rules, not a rule specific to damage but does include it. You round down unless otherwise specified. E.g., Cantrip level tells you to round up.

I think you're missing how Expert Overdrive is written:

The intent of this, I feel, is clearly to increase it by +1 period, whether it's a success or critical success. A more literal reading applies it only to a success, resulting in +4 or +3, but that's silly, since the final upgrade is +3 bonus damage on Legendary Overdrive, and you could end up getting more damage on success than critical success then, which... yeah.

Well, if we're getting into lore, magic is magic, the division into divine, arcane, etc. is an illusion (at least per Jatembe, but I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about. And halcyon magic does reflect that)

Which actually does tie back to Thaumaturge in that they work outside of the traditional structure. They don't have the benefit of well defined spells, but neither do they have the restrictions.

Actually, a 20th level feat that them pull a Wish-equivalent once a day via CHA roll might be interesting in that vein (they can force of will the effect of any spell without actually knowing it - they just know what they want to have happen and muddle through)

Gunslinger, like all martials, has a level 1 feat, so you're missing that.

Also, you stole my stat spread! (kidding, obv) Actually, this is basically identical to a build I've been kicking around for the same purposes:

1-Munitions Crafter
2-Fake Out
4-Alchemical Shot
6-Sniper's Aim
8-Grit and Tenacity(?)
10-Called Shot/Penetrating Fire

...you're even using the same gun.

Are you me? :P.

I will note that camouflage has no real use on a Sprite - wait one more level and you get once per hour Invisibility 4 from an ancestry feat.

The main point I'm unsure on is Alchemical Shot, since Sniper's Aim at 6 is also a 2-action attack with appealing bonuses and all. Munitions Crafter is still useful for raw ammo (and not having to do book keeping on it), but I saw Cover Fire put to good use in Headshot the Rot. Guess what mindless enemies aren't going to do? Free +1 to hit. It's not a flourish either, so you can use it on any strike. If I didn't take Alchemical I'd probably use Risky Reload or Running Reload at 4 for the economy.

Tender Tendrils wrote:

Garulo wrote:

I always liked the wuxia movies where the trainee is punching sand to build up their fists or muy thai with bamboo beating of shins. Now we have shuriken training with repeated stabs into the hand with a returning shuriken :) (yes, I know it comes back into the hand held not grabbed)

Friendly reminder that despite Returning saying "the item flies back into your hand" there isn't really anything stopping you from describing the weapon as teleporting back into your hand, or dissolving and an identical replacement weapon materializing in your hand, or my favourite, swapping the thrown weapon with the same weapon from an alternate timeline/universe where you didn't throw the weapon.

Unfortunately, the rules specifically state that the weapon "Flies back." Not appears back, not teleports back. Played a game where the bad guy was in a dead end cave at the end of a tunnel and had a disrupting action that when hit by a ranged attack, a wind wall appeared blocking the tunnel. By the rules the disrupting action stopped the returning weapon since the interrupt prevents completion of the action.

Nah, RAW it's no longer part of a strike when flying back so wall of wind does nothing. Wall of Wind also refers to "ammunition", which is a specific type of item. Shuriken are not ammunition.

I'm glad to see my biggest concerns (underpowered amps, no benefit for thaumaturges who were well prepared) are being addressed!

You can take special precautions against special senses, explained here, but it requires you know ahead of time that the target has said sense. The feat Foil Senses allows you to always be taking special precautions.

There also has to actually be a way to do that. There isn't much you can do about something like lifesense even if you do know it's there, absent there being some very specific spell or the like.

I'd argue sound-absorbing materials don't work against echolocation, much the way light-absorbing materials aren't going to stop me from seeing where you are by the giant black spot.

Conditions keep ticking while unmanifested - the Eidolon still exists somewhere (the question of "where" gets very odd for the material plane natives though!). At least I don't recall anything saying they stop ticking...? This gets strange for persistent damage and afflictions, of course...

Yeah, Rogue should have just been "All simple weapons and all finesse or agile martial weapons", which would automatically have added everything relevant.

Wizards of course, have the baggage of the class... but frankly could have just been "all simple" to make it easier.

Also, things that don't move or move very slowly. While the echolocation would 'see' something there, they may not realize that it is actually a creature. So that would probably be some sort of Hide/Perception challenge.

Echolocation would give a rough outline of what's there. An imprecise sense, by default, automatically brings any creature within range to detected but hidden (i.e., you know the square they occupy). Because it's hidden, it's possible for the creature to Sneak to become undetected. Conversely, the creature with Echolocation can use it to Seek, but this can only bring the target up to Hidden. Note that Hide is unnecessary, as it only gets you to the Hidden condition necessary to Sneak.

Precise Echolocation, of course, defeats almost all attempts to be sneaky by anything with corporeal presence, unless they have some form of cover/concealment that applies (loud noise, solid walls, etc work fine). I can't think of any real way to actively take measures against it that are plausible that aren't outright generating concealment.

I just use the first page of the official sheet since that covers all the relevant details already.

While I'm not opposed to a Con based class, such a design space is a tight rope to walk.

Con is significant, if only because of how it ties in to HP. Because of how easy it is to have an AC on the higher end, HP is one of the only other major limiting factors in a combat. This relates to the critiques recently voiced about HP values being so high in 2e.

To be implemented well, I think it would require a similar design to the PF1 kineticist wherein using their abilities reduced their effective HP. Also it would possibly additionally require having wizard level proficiencies. And, at least a look at how damage reduction abilities would influence their power level. Maybe resulting in a halving of resistances they obtain or something.

EDIT:All of that said, it is possible to homerule the class ability boost at creation to be whatever you want.

I think Kineticist as a con-based class is the main thing that makes sense, yes. But even then, I'm not sure I'd have con be their KAS, because I don't think it would be modifying their hit rate. It would just be a limiter (because they're burning their HP) on their ability to throw out bigger hits.

If you let the kineticist use dex for accuracy though, then they can easily be like 18/16 dex/con. Just make con be where the damage comes from (I'm very wary of a class not being able to start at 18 for their accuracy stat, basically)

Unerring Shot's real benefit is to shorter range weapons I think - it completely removes range increment penalties. That 30' pistol? Now has full accuracy out to 150'.

Granted, getting 600' of range on your rifle does potentially allow for some interesting narrative outcomes when you have full accuracy at a range of two football fields.

I might take Piercing Critical there though for double crit rate on strong enemies and second shots. Maybe Final Shot.

Slinger's Reflexes only gives extra actions on enemy turns, where Fake Out doesn't apply. It's unfortunately a trap feat right now, there just aren't any gunslinger reactions that really work it. I might take Perfect Readiness over that for the action economy.

Alchemical Shot is one I'm unsure on. It has a lot of upsides:
1) Avoid resistance by making the whole attack energy (like Sonic and laugh)
2) Apply weakness damage
3) Apply persistent damage (and if this is weakness... ooh boy is it going to hurt)

But misfire on a miss hurts and it has backlash damage there. You're fairly accurate, and you can use things like Risky Reload to offset the misfire action damage, but...

I'm also unsure about Shattering Shot - I just don't think that it does enough damage to be worthwhile since you don't get the splash/other effects of a bomb. 3d8 AoE isn't a ton at level 12 for functionally two actions. Sure, it's not affected by MAP, but...?

Ooh, a pivot from paranormal to paralegal Investigator? I'm pretty sure that PC is still in-tier for this...

I think armor mostly doesn't change playstyle with some exceptions. The stealth boosting stuff obviously, but +20 speed enables hit and run combat very well.

Otherwise sure, it just makes you very hard to drop. (This isn't counting the feats for it, which can give you constant swim speed and underwater breathing at 4, and constant flight at 14)

Worth remembering also that Int boosts your class DC, for things like Explode.

I feel weapon inventor is on par with other options but doesn't feel like it. There's value to being able to have a weapon with Versatile BPS, or grappling+trip on a 1d10 reach weapon, etc, but a lot of the power is less obvious than Armor just saying "resist everything" eventually, or "cloaking device". It's not as splashy.

Inventor has standard martial damage boosts. Overdrive starts at +2 damage, +4 on crit. You get a bonus 1d6 of energy at 9 with Offensive Boost. It's a lot of fairly unconditional damage on your main weapon.

And then yes, you get Explode which is basically free Fireball level damage every fight, at level 1, which is amazing for usability. Megavolt is basically Electric Arc and once per fight Lightning Bolt. Both of these can be reused if you're lucky and eventually become twice per fight baseline.

Weapon Inventor also gets that ridiculous late game feat to just strike everything everywhere at zero MAP. (Come to think of it, Inventor overlaps some with Barbarian in what kind of things they can do).

I think there's a few classes that could do with a bit of love, but the main area I think feels lacking is usually ancestry feats when you venture outside of the core races (and the few that have had feats from multiple books beyond that, like Kobold and Leshy).

If I could make a wish, it'd be to revise Alchemist (a mess to work with, even if it's ultimately competent) and Witch (most of the hex cantrips need to be buffed since without those it's straight up underpowered)

medtec28 wrote:

CrimsonKnight wrote:

i just hope there is no boon point tax on the new classes like there is for most ancestries.

my fear remains that gunslinger will be permitted, but firearms will be gated behind acp. I am not really interested in playing a gunslinger with a crossbow.

Let me modify my above statement then: Inventor and Gunslinger will both cost a grand total of 0 AcP to play as intended. Part of what we have to sort through with G&G is "okay so which guns does any gunslinger get."

But we're not going to nickel-and-dime you to play a gunslinger who actually shoots guns.

It's an understandable concern though. 1e did lock guns down hard (but this was more because they were intrinsically unbalanced).

Can you say whether other classes (say, Inventor) will be able to grab firearms? I've been kicking around several character ideas while waiting for sanctioning and some of them want to know that (Okay, mainly one, because the gun sword is a delightful idea)