Invictus Fatum's page

I'm really hoping this is what my player's and I hoped Extinction Curse was going to be. We are in book 6 of EC, and while fun, we started in hopes of it being a true Circus adventure, then we're disappointed partly into book 2 and on when the circus felt more like an afterthought.

Not to criticise as we are still having fun (book 5 was very entertaining as an AP book). That said, if this AP keeps the Opera front and center the whole way (with related adventuring of course) it may just be my groups dream AP.

Another neat thing is that we maybe get to find out what happens when you have a god that dies but their worshippers don't stop. What does that do? does it do anything? If they go before Pharasma to be judged, how does she deal with that?

I'd bet they are handled the same as Atheists at that point.

"Despite their lack of faith, atheists' souls are still judged by Pharasma. Some become bodiless spirits in the Astral Plane or are reincarnated, but most find their fate in the Graveyard of Souls"

Gorum, our god of war himself is confirmed to be marked for death. Now the question is, how will he die? Who or what will kill him? Let's have some fun with conjecture while we wait months for the answer.

I dont have a good guess right now, but I don't think he'll die IN the War of Immortals, but that his death will CAUSE the war of Immortals.

In nearly all of the Godsrain prophecies, the god who died caused a lot of havoc with their domains. Almost twisting them out of control. I think similar happens here. The god of war dies, and as a result the biggest war the universe has ever seen starts.

Let's keep the interesting theories going!

logic_poet wrote:

What level does this AP end at?

The AP goes from lvl 5 to 15, if I recall correctly. So the PCs should either end at 15 or 16 (usually Paizo exclude the level up you get with the "last boss" of their adventures when talking about the "levels" they span, like Ap starting at lvl 1 often ends with a level up to 11, but they say lvl 1 to 10 because you don't "get" to play that 11th level).

I belive it would be 13.

Book 1 = 5-7
Book 2 = 8-10
Book 3 = 11-13

It's worth noting that Nethys is far from the only god of magic around. This is another case of consequences that seem far more catastrophic than makes sense (see also Urgathoa).

I suppose it also flies in the face of it being possible to reproduce the effects of working with Spirit via traditions that do not, and such. Are the essences truly so different if a wizard can learn to cast something like Divine Wrath with the opposite of the proper essences?

The way I read it is that magic didn't fail because he died, but his death in such an explosion from his failed experiment, created dead zones of magic. I'd say that is plausible.

You may stop now. I am complete. This is my dragon of choice. Love it!

Finally, the debate on the wounded condition is over. You ONLY add the wounded value when you go down and gain the dying condition. Not on checks and not on further damage. Thank you!

Sounds great, but I won't be trying it personally. Without a free version to try before you buy it just doesn't appeal. I don't NEED it, it is more of a nice to have and those apps should really give an option to test it out first.

As for asking for a refund if I don't like it...well that is a crapshoot and not something I would typically do.

Take a lesson from Pathbuilder and build a free and paid version. I paid for that a week after trying it. Or put together a trial period.

Keep it up though, sounds interesting.

This looks really fun. What is going to make-or-break it for me is how viably the familiar is in combat situations since a good chunk of the power budget is geared towards that.

Not to mention the hex reworks, but I'm less concerned with that piece as PF2e has had some great advancement in focus spells since the Witch was released (looking at Psychic, Animist, and while not exactly focus, the Inventor has similar features).

Absolutely can't wait!

Likely unpopular opinion, but I'm a bit concerned. Looks like from this, most thongs will remain much the same and while fun, these classes were pretty overturned. Heck, the Exemplare reads like it is getting buffed.

Anyway, I'm sure most people will disagree or shun this opinion, but I'm truly concerned with the future.

...and the fact that she's taken Gom-gom as her familiar is kind of cool too.

I dont think that was a familiar. From the description, sounds like she uses Crawling Fire.

It has been mentioned, but us with its own thread. This is my #1 ask. I feel like a decent amount of this class needs scaled down, but this aspect should scale up. I'd love to have the Avatar form be available as early as lvl 3, and then get more powerful as you level and even have a capstone feat to achieve the ultimate avatar form.

Please Paizo, make this happen.

I really like the changes. Have to ask though, why doesn't Thunderstrike have the "Air" trait?

Counter Elements counteract level needs to scale.

It does scale. It is an impulse and the counteract rank is half your impulse level rounded up. Impulses auto-level.

It is more limited right now due to the wood trait being new. That said, the remaster is certain to change that and put it on a number of spells.

RoE had a number of wood spells and mentions some from SoM that should now have the wood trait. Talk to your GM as well, at my tables I'd allow anything with the plant trait to also be cast with that feat as well as those are almost certainly going to get the wood trait with the reprintings.

I like it. Less book keeping and there was already confusion with innate spells anyway. You are still limited by spellcasting ability (i.e Int), but now can more easily multiclass with like abilitied classes. All is good.

'Nough said

Then proceeds to immediately reply to their own post...apparently 'nought wasn't said.

Jokes aside, I agree. Would love a Shield ikon.

Personally I'm in the camp of doing something similar to the Kineticist armor feats. You have to make a lasting choice for them (choosing an element that will follow you) and so it is more meaningful than just a lvl 1 feat.

So, an ikon that gives the equivalent of medium armor that follows your light armor proficiency is my thought. More than just a feat and that is chosen in place of another ikon, so you have to really think about it.

Wow, I rarely play lvl 20 so might not have this in full perspective...BUT this full group of Kineticists is just wrecking it. Amazing, I love this class!

I'm going to guess Anamist and Exemplar.

Will also go out on the limb and say Anamist is a divine Wisdom caster and Exemplar has a divine spark and is a light armored melee.

Caleb Garofalo wrote:

Rain of Rust Feat does not list a duration.

Interesting. Time to switch to metal/water.... Endless rain of rust everywhere you go LOL.

Just start spamming it and never stop.

Fresh Produce at level one heals 1d4+1
Heightened is 1d4+5.

Tremor base damage is 1d8.
Heightened increases it by 1d10.

Intentional or accidental?

Not as good as endless rain of rust :D

Meh, even then it's weak. I mean it would only hurt metal creatures, and how often do you run into those (aside from Golems who are immune to it anyway)

As a more sane hope:

Medium

They said it was a brand new class. Mediums exist in PF1e

Great Con. Now, when is somebody going to step in and make Roiling Mudslide playable? What is the range and area?

I love the Kineticist! I love it so much I've not been able to decide on my next build because I want to play them all. So, what is your favorite impulse(s).

I typically play low to mid levels, so don't pay much mind to higher levels myself.

Personally I LOVE Scrap Barricade. I'm a sucker for wall spells and this comes online at lvl 6 and is a true wall in that they can't choose to walk through it. When they do break it down they are punished with some damage and then I can throw another one up!

1. If they are adventuring in a known hostile area (such as most dungeons) then having weapons out is a given for me. If they are in a typically non-hostile area (such as walking in a city or using public transport like a ship) then they do not have their weapons out.

2. As for the Kinetic Aura, I plan to treat this similar to the Summoner's Eidolon. Since it is harmless, unless there is a reason for it to be an issue (such as a social situation) I will allow them to walk around with it active.

People always forget about yeast :(

I prefer my yeast with a little barley and hops.

Invictus Fatum wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

I'm in love with solar detonation. An aoe blinding effect even without the damage is fantastic.

I did as well until I noticed the Incapacitation trait. That ruined it for me. As it stands (hopefully errata will fix) the incapacitation is not only for the blind, but damage too. That makes this horrible in my eyes.

Well, on one end, if you've got enough targets to justify an aoe, it's likely most won't be affected by incapacitation. It's likely it's meant just for the blinding effect though.

Meh, glad you still like it. Doesn't seem worth the feat for me unfortunately. If it were recorded so the incapacitation only applied to the blind then perhaps. But then there are other options I suppose.

I'm in love with solar detonation. An aoe blinding effect even without the damage is fantastic.

I did as well until I noticed the Incapacitation trait. That ruined it for me. As it stands (hopefully errata will fix) the incapacitation is not only for the blind, but damage too. That makes this horrible in my eyes.

I know Summon spells are widely considered not great (I like them), but I'm wondering if this book as changed how the Summon Elemental spell stacks up to the other summon spells now. I know there are a lot of creatures with the "elemental" tag and wonder if that spell now has something else to offer. Has anybody looked at that yet?

Sanityfaerie wrote:

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?

Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.

Who are they? What are their personalities? Is there two per wood and metal or are they singular lords?

Metal 1 (Ferrumnestra) - basically a Rust Monster in deity form. Doesn't care about what is going on, just keeps cleaning up and destroying what is no longer needed.

Metal 2 (Laudinmio) - Implied to be the first alchemist and highly intelligent. Though feels they are responsible for the downfall of the Metal plane and basically now sleeps all the time and wakes up occasionally in a confused state.

Wood 1 (Shumunue) - came to the wood plane and said "hey, we should make these plants and trees move like animals" and then proceeded to carve animals out of the trees and giving them consciousness.

Wood 2 (Verilorn) - a gardener really. Used to let things grow wild, but then bad things happened and they got depressed/angry and decided that everything had to be very orderly in order to prevent his people from being abused and so now is grouchy. Got in an argument with Shumunue eons ago and they are now not talking.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Just got my copy. How does the at will protector tree ability scale? Not sure if "spell rank" is a remaster term. There's no way it scales like I think it does right? Seems pretty OP.

I believe "spell rank" is precisely synonymous with "spell level". So you'd say 5th rank spell instead of 5th level spell.

The whole "level means so many different things in these games" has been a problem for 20+ years.

So it scales half as quickly as a max level spell would for your level? That's the way I'm reading it. You get a plus 1 spell level per 4 levels I think. That seems more likely than an at will max level protector tree

No, it scales the same as any caster using the spell would scale it if they kept it in their highest level slot. It scales at "a rank half your level rounded up" which is precisely when full casters get a new spell rank. So it would heighten at character levels 3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 & 19

I really hope, with a new store and new forums, that we also get a better organized play site. It is full of errors, very slow and cumbersome. I love Pathfinder Society and the various boons and ACP system, but the actual functionality of it is not a great experience.

Until I see/hear otherwise, I choose to be optimistic that it will get a makeover too.

Im just gonna ignore that gnome and halfling slander. Lol.

I would like to see another bird ancestry. But perhaps with tengu, Beastkin, and eventually awakened animal we have a decent amount.(not to mention how Nephellim can have animal traits) idk i just think there is some potential there.

You forgot Strix...everybody forgets Strix

I love the variety, although after the hype now I sure feel empty having read the book hahah.

Unfortunately there are some typos or at least weird spellings that I have found...

Kinetic Expertise seems to have a somewhat duplicated flavor text:
"Your kinetic gate grows stronger, making your elements harder to resist. The power flowing from you is even harder to resist. Your proficiency rank for your kineticist class DC increases to expert."

And Gate Attenuators have a weird structure in the first sentence:
"... making literal the elemental gates kineticists possess within their bodies."
Probably meant "making the literal elemental gates that kineticists possess" / "making the elemental gates kineticists possess within their bodies literal"?

Neither of those examples really bother me and "making literal the elemental gates..." is grammatically correct and uses a more formal writing style.

The parts that slightly annoy me (love everything so far really though) is that a few cases of the non-remake language slipped in. Most noticeable to me are the armor feats for kineticist still list requirements like 16 strength rather than +3 strength. Other places in the book don't do that, seems like it is just an editing miss.

I also HATE that there is still nested traits even though they said they were stopping that practice. First readthrough I missed that all impulses have the Concentrate trait because that is nested in with the Impulse trait.

That said, these are nitpicks from me.

I'm hoping that Kineticist gets the Summoner treatment. Summoner is one of the few classes that keeps getting expanded. They got a new Eidolon in Book of the Dead and a new one in Rage of Elements. Eidolon is basically to the Summoner what the Element is to the Kineticist. If we get an element every other rulebook (within a limit of course) that would be fantastic.

It may be a pipe dream, but I'm going to hold to it.

I should know this as I've been with Paizo since they were a magazine for another game, but I don't so I'm going to ask. Is the Boneyard the platform at the top of the Axis? Is the boneyard in Axis, touch Axis, or am I just missing something else?

Couldn't agree more. Air, Earth Wood, Water junctions are amazing (I love the tactical play of water so rank it up there too).

Fire doesn't feel great as it just seems fire should have had the 1 die higher built in already so theirs feels almost obligatory to make fire good.

Metal is a decent concept, but the damage won't be enough to matter in most cases. Which is a real shame because I love how metal turned out otherwise (except the magnetic aura, most monsters don't use metal).

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

This was probably already asked but how do two-action blasts improve at higher levels? I recall a concern being that adding Con to damage put them behind cantrips in terms of damage assuming it was the only feature they gained.

They really didn't. The only advantage at higher levels I can see is if you are trying to trigger your junction (which requires a 2-action blast/impulse) with a blast instead of one of your other impulses.

If there are 2 things I find slightly disappointing in Kineticist I'd say it is this (2-action blast scales VERY poorly) and the fact that your blasts don't get an extra die of damage until lvl 5 (one level behind a striking rune) as it goes up at lvl+4. So at lvl 4, your blasts are very week compared to other options both martial and cantrips.

P.S. would love if somebody told me I was misreading the blast progression, but it looks like an extra die at lvls 5,9,13,17 since it is listed as "Level+4" and I'm assuming it starts. Though as I think about it lvl 4,8,12,16,& 20 makes more sense...I'm confusing myself...help!

I read the scaling the same way but I wouldn't mind being wrong. Worth noting though the two action blast can combine with other abilities to get a lot more than just its raw dice. The fire aura junction is one example, but there's also full strength to damage options. You also get item bonuses to hit, so I think the cantrip comparisons are missing a lot. The average at maxed levels only deals 32 damage on a hit. A maxed thrown 2 action impulse can can be 34.5 without touching auras and other enhancements, and you can follow up with another blast after that. Electric arc + shortbow is the only thing I'd wonder about out damaging it.

Yeah, I get that and at higher levels it is no issue (though no runes like martials and a number of cantrips go vs. saves). I just find lvl 4 to be very odd and the progression maxing at 17 odd as well. Especially since they did the attenuator at the same level as you get your first potency rune. Would love for somebody to say that it is 1-4-8-12-16-20 under the logic that the blast doesn't have a level and thus is considered a lvl 0 ability so the lvl+4 is 0+4=4.

Anyway, unless somebody confirms that, it is just going to be my little pet peeve.

You're not misreading it, first bump is at 5th level.

Thank you, I'm back to being sad, but have my sanity back. Martials are doing 2dx+str+x (weapon and class dependent). Telekenetic Projectile is doing 2d6+int/cha. Poor Kineticist is doing 1dx+x (maybe str, maybe con, maybe neither).

Oh well, there is so much to love that I won't focus on that.

This was probably already asked but how do two-action blasts improve at higher levels? I recall a concern being that adding Con to damage put them behind cantrips in terms of damage assuming it was the only feature they gained.

They really didn't. The only advantage at higher levels I can see is if you are trying to trigger your junction (which requires a 2-action blast/impulse) with a blast instead of one of your other impulses.

If there are 2 things I find slightly disappointing in Kineticist I'd say it is this (2-action blast scales VERY poorly) and the fact that your blasts don't get an extra die of damage until lvl 5 (one level behind a striking rune) as it goes up at lvl+4. So at lvl 4, your blasts are very week compared to other options both martial and cantrips.

P.S. would love if somebody told me I was misreading the blast progression, but it looks like an extra die at lvls 5,9,13,17 since it is listed as "Level+4" and I'm assuming it starts. Though as I think about it lvl 4,8,12,16,& 20 makes more sense...I'm confusing myself...help!

Is there any way for Metal to gain a fly speed any for duration?

Wonder if its possible to live out Mistborn style Coinshot fantasies.

Not pure Metal, but go Metal/Air or to a lesser extent Metal/Fire and there you go.

Twilight2k wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.

Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.

There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.

Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.

I know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.

I've answered this question several time here, on Reddit, and even in Nonat1's video comments. Miscommunication happen, just wish he'd edit his video to explain. The video definitely makes it sound like the PDF is ready for purchase as of today.

So apparently a gaming outlet called Bols released a Water chapter preview a few days ago. But, I guess it was completely overshadowed by the early subscriber releases. Even the Paizo social media people never said anything.

Yeah, the AMAs started on Friday when some of us started getting books. Once that happens, previews lose their luster. Bols missed their window for premium viewership and coverage.

Seems Nonat1 realized he missed an opportunity too as he put out a lvl 1 metal and wood kineticist feet preview hours after the first 2 AMAs came along. Him doing a full class guide will still be entertaining though. His first video and the latest just seemed rushed (and probably were, given his current life state).

Need some help with interpretation for the Flying Flame.

It creates a flame that you send out on any path you wish for 30 feet and every creature it passes through takes 1d6 damage with a basic reflex save. My question is in the last sentence "A creature attempts only one save, even if the flame passes through it multiple times."

So, does that mean:

1) The creature can only be damaged once by it

2) The creature makes one save that applies to each time it was passed through and thus can take more damage?

I would normally go with #1, however usually spells like this say they can only be affected once, but in this case it is saying specifically that they only make the save once. It is feasable that if the creature is adjacent to you, you could have it pass through them 3 times.

Elemental familiars are surprisingly combat relevant. They all get full elemental immunities which helps their survivability. They also get a variety of unique options for specific familiars:

Once a day reroll on saves for an ally

Breath weapon for 1d6 per 2 levels you have, once per hour

+1 status bonus for damage rolls of alchemical and magical effects with the same elemental trait

A pivoting option of auto-aid to your choice of Diplomacy, Deception, or Intimidate checks.

These will likely be popular choices for witches.

And if you take one as part of Kineticist they have a feat to replace your familiar with a full on Elemental (leveled per the summon elemental spell) for a while. Kinda neat!

Hello! I had a few questions;

1) What is the hit die for the Kineticist?
2) What are the skill proficiencies for the Kineticist?
3) Was the Elemental Spell List adjusted?

Thank you all for your time in doing this for the rest of us BTW!

1) d8

I know there is an AMA up here too, but check out my AMA on Reddit if you like. I've been adding edits to the post as well as answering questions.

AMA - Rage of Elements

Magis wrote:

Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...

If impulses are inherently Concentrate (which seems likely) then it's suddenly very barb-unfriendly.

As mentioned in the post just above yours, I checked and so far none of the blasts, impulses, or gather element actions have the "concentrate" trait. Since they aren't doing embedded traits anymore, then that means they are VERY barbarian friendly and can make the dedication AMAZING for them.

Tactical Drongo wrote:

agreed with old man robot

the pdf should drop the day the first shippings arrive, the final stretch of the waiting feels always bad and if others can already enjoy their stuff it makes things worse

that being said, this is the kineticist hype thread and not the shipping gloom thread

I am after some shortlasting scepticism very hyped again and cant wait to see what the class will deliver - also the dual class potential as that is one of my tables favourite optional rules
It looks like barbarian will still be the one class left out in the rain with dual classing though :P

Why do you feel barb will be left out in the rain? I think there's a lot of opportunity here, since con as a secondary stat works pretty well with Barb. I'm equally certain that a 10' aura will work very well on a primarily melee character somewhere in there...

I'm thinking there will be real synergy as well. I double checked what we know so far and none of the blasts or impulses we've seen so far have the "concentrate" trait and thus should work just fine while raging.

While the extra damage from rage itself won't likely apply (blasts/impulses are not weapon or unarmed attacks), grabbing some of these auras and/or impulses could be amazing for a barbarian and give them another form of damage/control/utility they wouldn't otherwise have access to due to so many similar options from other dedications/classes having the "concentrate" trait.

Granted, we don't know what the Kineticist Dedication looks like yet, but I'm thinking that it can be one of the best barbarian options out there from the looks of it so far.

I'm having email issues, so can't say if I got the email, but the top of this page says I have purchased the product today. Here's hoping I get my copy shipped on Monday and then I'll start answering a lot of these questions.

I am so HYPED!!