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I've seen a lot of people say that the best way to build a warpriest cleric is to dumb wisdom and focus on strength and charisma. I was wondering, how does that work at higher levels? Focusing just on buff spells, athletics (from what I can tell they will need to use athletics more than strikes at higher levels), and their divine font. Are the high level divine buff spells enough to make them useful at higher levels? Or are they going to feel that drop in wisdom as spellcasting gets stronger? How do low wisdom clerics do at higher levels?


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Temperans wrote:

Self buffing for casters is in the same spot as blaster casters: Sure you could do it, but the game makes it as hard as physically possible to just come out mediocre three times a day.

Self buffing for martials is in the spot of: Sure you could do it and become much stronger, but its better if its a caster spending its actions for it and not you.

Self buffing for Alchemist is literally just, "STOP WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Just go give your buffs to the martials and let them handle it."

*****************

Any way you slice it self buffing as of rigth now is something to do because "oh look this is cool" than it being actually good. The game actively fights against self buffing to the point that Warpriest (who used to be the best self buffer) is literally just a worse cleric and a bad martial.

I'm suprised to hear that about the alchemist! I had heard that toxicologists in particular where pretty good for swollowing a mutagen, poisoning your weapons, and getting to town. You find it usually a better strategy to instead give those elixirs and poisons to allies?


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How is the strategy of using buff spells on yourself in pf2e? It seems a lot less powerful than in pf1e, but is it still a viable option? What types of characters are best at it? What have your experiences with it been?


Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

Speaking for flavourful options, I would probably pick:

-Wishborn fits right into your backstory and makes a lot of sense as a 'fearless' poppet defender. Toy makes a lot of sense also, but the tiny size could be a challenge in combat.

-In terms of a fierce defender faithfully protecting the innocent from monsters in the dark, I would pick Paladin cause. If going Tiny, I'd probably lean into the idea of freeing those captured by monsters and pick Liberator instead so as not to rely on reach for reactions.

-Champion lvl 2 feat Vengeful Oath (for Paladins) seems tailor-made for this backstory, bringing holy retribution to those who would harm the innocent.

-No good ideas for archetypes popping out, but you might have the Cha to run a Bard and pick up some emotion-inspiring effects that jive with the 'I will protect you' magic lingering in the toy... alternative Oracle could bring some kind of curse while also tying into the divine power, though you may not want/need to really dig into the lingering mote of power that animated you.

(It might not necessarily fit the theme of the god, but it would fit the theme of the character if you ended up with the curse from Battle--the curse represents the fact that you are a mere stuffed toy so your body is pretty weak except then the divine power literally sustains your body while engaged in the purpose you were made for, fighting monsters. Sure that would take a few feats to come online but it's a cool vibe and it gets you some divine spell support along the way)

Those options all sound great! Yeah toy would be great but it would probably be too much of a headache. How would wishborn and stuffed compare mechanically? (I was also considering undine and aasimar because water god, but I really do like to the official poppet heritages) Vengeful oath would fit extremely well! Oh man, I am not sure if I want to go the spellcasting route on this character, but that curse rp would be FUN! I really like that idea!


I have an idea for a poppet champion, but I am unsure how to build it. I would love y'alls help!

For context: In a previous campaign in this world, there was a family-focused tengu druid pc who crafted a TON of magic items during the campaign, eventually becoming a god with a focus on crafting and weather (mainly rain and water in general). Her cult is pretty popular in the modern-day setting.

My poppet's backstory: The old pc had a niece afraid of the monster under her bed, so the pc made a giant stuffed animal knight with a simple enchantment to repeat the phrase "don't worry, I'm here to protect you!" when squeezed. The knight was passed down for multiple generations, its fur getting matted and its eye-popping out, by generations of tengu kids loving it. Then, one day, its owner's house was attacked by a giant monster who killed everyone inside. The child's dying wish was for the toy to come to live to protect her, and that, combined with the bit of divine magic the pc left by the pc, finally brought the toy to life as a poppet... but it took long enough that the monster had already fled to scene. So the poppet swore an oath to its creator, promising to protect all the world's children and slay the beast that it couldn't protect its owner from.

So poppet champion seems pretty obvious, but I am not sure how else to build it.

What heritage would you go with? What cause? (the dm and that player never statted up that pc's divinity, and both said I could go for whatever I wanted mechanics-wise, but the pc herself was chaotic good). I think champions work well with picking up an archetype, but I can't think of any that would fit this character, any ideas? Any tips for making a champion build that synergizes well with poppet feats?

Any ideas for building this character?


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Offhand, I don't think any of these characters will translate well:
Rfkannen wrote:

Someone I play with is talking about relaunching one of her old 5e campaigns using pf2e. However I am curious, how well do you think this party would convert to pf2e?

We only had like 4 sessions, so I don't know all the other characters deal SUPER well but this is what I figured out:
* A little orphan annie style human wild magic sorcerer, really played into the wild uncontrollable nature of her magic. Magic was flavored as literally weaving together the web.

Human Sorcerer is easy enough, but I don't think chaos magic is a thing in PF2.

Rfkannen wrote:
* A firbolg barbarian. A tarzan type raised by giant apes, mechanically a bear totem barbarian who did a ton of damage.

No firbolg rules, but a Animal Instinct or Giant Instinct Barbarian sounds like it fits the general concept (you will have to choose between 'giant' and 'tarzan' concepts).

Rfkannen wrote:
* A halfling pact of the chain fey patron warlock. Was only in one session so I don't really know this characters deal.

No real Warlock equivilent in PF2: Maybe a Witch if you want to play up the 'patron' aspect...

Rfkannen wrote:
My character was a member of a homebrew race; which were an empire of lawful evil half ice giant half elves. He was mechanically my best attempt to make a warlord in 5th edition, a valor bard. He was the party leader and did a lot of control and support magic.

Plenty of strong Bard options, but I don't know what to say about your ancestry.

One melee, two casters, and a bard is probably not anyone's first choice for a group makeup: The casters will probably end up in melee more often than...

Yeah thats fair and what I was expecting.

pf2e does have wild magic! Its a class archetype called the wellspring mage, it seems pretty fun!

My character is definitely the hardest part, he needs to be a melee character for the party to really work. Are there any non-bard options that would fit the basic idea but make the party balance better?


Someone I play with is talking about relaunching one of her old 5e campaigns using pf2e. However I am curious, how well do you think this party would convert to pf2e?

We only had like 4 sessions, so I don't know all the other characters deal SUPER well but this is what I figured out:
* A little orphan annie style human wild magic sorcerer, really played into the wild uncontrollable nature of her magic. Magic was flavored as literally weaving together the web. Was focused on blasting magic, which is harder in pf2e.

* A firbolg barbarian. A tarzan type raised by giant apes, mechanically a bear totem barbarian who did a ton of damage.

* A halfling pact of the chain fey patron warlock. Was only in one session so I don't really know this characters deal.

My character was a member of a homebrew race; which were an empire of lawful evil half ice giant half elves. He was mechanically my best attempt to make a warlord in 5th edition, a valor bard. He was the party leader and did a lot of control and support magic.

Other facts about him that could possibly (but not necessarily) be represented mechanically: He was inspired to pick up music after his human bard husband died of old age (not sure what muse that is). He was devout to the god of pure law. His motivation was to fix the mortal races and make them live as long as his people did. His culture had a major necromancy thing going on, and he has some mild experiences with it but wasn't able to bring back his husband for unknown reasons. I was picturing him started to do mounted combat at higher levels (riding a Pegasus) but we never got to the levels where he could do that so it isn't nececary to carry over.

Would this party convert over well? How would you build it? (I am up for changing parts of my character to make the party work better)


I am mostly a player, but a while ago I decided to get some practice running pf2e by gming menace under otari, finding players using reddit's looking for group subforum.

I was thinking of doing that again, since it was a lot of fun! However, I then remembered that pathfinder society has some sort of dm reward system. So I might as well run it with some extra player option restrictions to get those!

However there are two things that are making me not sure:

It seems like pathfinder society mostly wants dms who are fairly good at the system. I have a lot of experience with other systems (mostly 5e), but my only experience with running pf2e is that one time with the beginner box. I am also not super confident with the rules of pf2e so far and often have to check stuff like skill actions during combat when playing.

The society rules were kind of confusing, but it looks like pathfinder society only wants you to run either bounties or adventure paths. I would be wanting to run something in the length of 3-10 sessions, not 1 or 30. I am not sure pathfinder society has any adventurers of that length that are legal.

Should I wait to run pathfinder society till I am more confident in the system and am comfortable with my schedule in running a full adventure path? If you would suggest just going for it, any recommendations for what adventurers to run? (also where do you usually find players?)


great discussion here! I did not think people were still talking on this thread till I just checked.

The gif was not helpful on my prompt in hindsight. My real question was: how viable is it to play a character that looks and acts like your traditional full caster, but stays in the frontline alongside the melee fighters.

I love playing casters, and I like the classic unarmed appearance of mage characters, but I dislike being a backline character.

I would prefer not to do any melee attacking at all, but if some is needed to have a reason to stay in that range, I would prefer to use a staff over any other weapon.

What I was looking for was a character wearing a robe, holding a staff, and casting spells, but who also had a reason to not hide in the back.


Just saw the compliments on the art, thank you!

I really like the changes on the build, I can see that being a much smoother leveling and play experience. I like the feats you added, especially blind fight and and reason rapidly. I always like my martial characters to push the bounds of reality at higher levels, and both of those feel very fantasy in a way I enjoy!

If the dm does wind up allowing free archetype, but only allowing ones that are either mostly flavor or feel thematic to a naval exploration campaign, what would y'all recommend as an added free archetype?

Just wanted to check one more thing before fully 100% deciding on investigator, what are you supposed to do when you get a bad roll on devise a stratagem?

Mainly, I really like this build and think it fits the character super well, but it doesn't have any spells, athletics, or social skills, it is going to need a rapier in one hand and a free hand for medicine so it can't hold a shield. I'm kinda just not sure what you do when attacking is a bad option.

If you were playing the build posted above, what would you do when you roll a bad stratagem?


Do any of the new skill feats give you actions that would be useful in combat?


I really like the shared stratagem feat and how it synergizes with having rogues in the party, but I can see how taking medic dedication at level 2 would make low levels go smoother and let me take the skill feats earlier. I'll switch it to that!


Alright I think I am deffinitly going investigator! it looks like it fits the character better than I thought, generally works smoother than the alchemist, and all around seems like a good time! I talked with the gm about it and they also said it sounded like it would be fun to gm for!

Hows this build look? I went as support heavy as I could. https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=197986


I just talked to my party about this and they said they liked the change, but were worried that the investigator was similar to the rogue class, and so it could have too much overlap with the two rogues.

Does the investigator play similarly to the rogue? What overlap would I have to worry about? How different could I make it? Do you think investigator is too similar to the rogue?


I hadn't considered taking alchemical crafting on an investigator, that would add a lot of the flavor back in without overcomplicating things!

The campaign was pitched as a pirate exploration campaign, so the pirate archetype gets a pass for being extremely thematic.

Thaumaturge might work poorly with the gm's setting. It has a magic is rare but really powerful thing. And my character had a whole hatred of magic story which might make the class weird since it seems pretty magical. The mechanics sound PERFECT though, I'll have to give it a look when it comes out!

Good point on the alchemical shot gunslinger covering some weakness, I'll pitch that!

Campaign appropriateness could be a major problem that you bring it up. The campaign is going to be a heavily player exploration campaign with the pcs having a pirate boat sailing from island to island. No overarching mystery.

The gm doesn't often use random encounters, we usually know about encounters beforehand, but will the lack of mystery make the class awkward?


A year ago, my group made characters for a new pf2e campaign, but because of life stuff, it is only now starting (well, in about three months, but we have a definite plan!). I am excited about my character, but a couple of factors are making me consider whether I should switch him from being an alchemist to an investigator. Mainly, this is the dm and all the other players' first time pf2e; the dm is talking about possibly using automatic bonus progression, and also, the game is using foundryvtt.

The interactions between alchemy and automatic bonus progression are complicated, and I feel that using a virtual tabletop makes them more so. I would feel bad making the dm have to figure out how to run all that stuff while also running pf2e for the first time. And since we are moving from 5e, it might be nice not to complicate things for the other players with mutagens. I thought a forensic investigator with the medic archetype would be decent for getting my "creepy graverobbing doctor" character working smoothly. But, On the other hand, an alchemist might be necessary for this party.

The other players are:

  • A whip wielding goblin thief rogue who will be taking the cathartic mage archetype (but not any of the spellcasting feats)
  • A tiefling catfolk tyrant champion who plans on using two weapons.
  • An undecided build will be a charismatic ranged character who is some mix of a gunslinger, scoundrel rogue, and pistol phenom. The exact mix isn't decided yet, but it looks like he is leaning towards rouge with pistol phenom.

    This party completely lacks elemental damage, any buffs, and any debuffs. That's a problem! The dm can always make up for it (it is his first time with pf2e, but he has run a lot of pf1e, so he has a handle on that), but it might be nice to be balanced by ourselves.

    I also am worried that alchemist might fit my character more:
    Doc is a creepy old elf doctor and graverobber obsessed with his mortality. He is an anti-theist who despises the gods and magic. He studies corpses in hopes of understanding the nature of life and death, with the ultimate goal of improving on the god's designs, gaining immortality and creating a perfect new body for himself. The tyrant champion has a disease that is slowly turning him into an undead monstrosity, and my character has joined the party as his personal doctor to help slow the progression of the disease (and secretly use the champion as his test subject)

    For fun, here is a bunch of the art I have done of him: https://imgur.com/a/QylLcSW

    So yeah, there are positivies on both sides, and I am unsure how to build the character. This also feels like a significant decision, as with our schedule, this campaign will likely go 4+ years. I would hate to get stuck with an unfun character for that long.

    Would you go, investigator or alchemist? If you recommend investigator, any builds/feats that would suit the party or the character? Any other advice or thoughts?

    Edit: the dm is debating whether or not to use free archetype. If he does, it will be limited to mostly flavor archetypes that fit the campaign (its a naval point crawl, so stuff like pirate, lore master, archeologist, etc. He has said medic seems a bit too combat focused to fit as the free one.)


  • I was scrolling through my reddit history and found this post I made two years ago on a dnd 5e subreddit. The best answers in 5e kinda worked but didn't really fufill the fantasy I was looking for. How does pf2e do this concept? (I am not looking to play this character, I am just curious)

    "In most rpgs I have played, when you are a caster, you are either a cleric, a big walking tank, or a wizard, who stays as far outside of battle as possible.

    Spoilers for last night's owlhouse episode, but I saw this https://twitter.com/SpencerWan/status/1297388656655659008 and I loved how kinetic and tactile the fight was between these two mages, while still fully being a magic fight.

    So I am looking for something like that, a build that emphases movement, getting into melee on occasion, and stuff like that, but is still 100% caster, not a gish, only weapon they should be holding is a staff and they should focus on spells.

    The most important part is asthetics, I want something that looks (withought any reflavor) like a 100% classic mage, but has a bit more movement and close range combat.

    Any way to do that?"


    HumbleGamer wrote:


    I don't think I got the "not much reasons to hit you" Part.

    I mean, if you are a frontline, enemies are going to hit you

    Personally I often find in most of my parties at least half the party will remain in melee, and if a monster sees two people, one of which is hard to hit and the other of which is easy to hit, they are going to hit the easier target.

    So I like it when I play a tank to have some way to make the enemies want to attack my character (champion reactions and grappling being my two favorites)


    Power armor is rad, but the inventor armor innovation looks like it has less to actively do than the other innovations, and it looks like it could fall into the tank fallacy (tons of defense if you are hit, but not much reason to hit you)

    What have your experiences with it been? What is your opinion on it?


    Sanityfaerie wrote:
    Rfkannen wrote:
    Hopefully there is SOME undead themed alchemy thing in the book though, I want to really get that re-animator vibe!
    If nothing else, you can take Undead Master to give yourself an undead companion, and then describe it as an alchemical reanimation.

    Oh that would be really fun! It would fit the character really well!


    My ideal gameplay would to mostly be playing a size large construct that grapples and trips enemies. Summoner's spellcasting might be better mostly because I am having trouble figuring out how you hit someone with a sword while in a mecha lol. It does seem like there isn't much of a reason to ride a melee eidolon though.


    I have a character for a campaign that has been pushed back a couple times, and I am VERY interested to see if I can use stuff from book of the dead for him.

    Basic concept is a creepy elven doctor alchemist who studies corpses and the line between life and death. My gm and I were talking about making him mechanically a dhampir to represent him being a vampire taking suppressants that keep himself mostly alive.

    I would LOVE to make him a proper vampire, but I am doubtful if it is a good idea. There aren't any casters in the party, the campaign will take place during the day, and we will be on a boat. If vampires can't stand running water, or the only way to conquer sunlight vulnerability is with spells, I will have to avoid making him a vampire.

    Hopefully there is SOME undead themed alchemy thing in the book though, I want to really get that re-animator vibe!


    Both the summoner and the inventor have options for having a construct you can ride around with. I really like the idea of playing a mecha rider, but I am not sure which of the two would be a better option.

    Which would you suggest?


    Wouldn't medic be a better fit than Beastmaster for the healer build? Doctor's visitation gives you the mobility you need alongside some extra healing.


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    The main ones I am craving:

    Some sort of giant-ish race: ogres, trolls, half giants, whatever it is! I don't need it to be mechanically large (though a higher level feat like lizardfolk get would be nice) but I want the flavor

    Merfolk: Because merfolk are cool

    bugbear: because we already have hobgbolins and goblins.

    Slime: I have no idea how it would work but it would be fun!


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    pf2e vampires are no joke; every type of vampire has some sort of ability that grants them incredible ability to stay alive when they would usually die. Fortunately for vampire hunters, this is counteracted by some very harsh weaknesses that make a vampire's life incredibly complicated. This is why it is fascinating that book of the dead will allow players to play vampires starting at level 2.

    How do you imagine playable vampires are going to work? Will a level 20 character with all of the archetype's feats have most of the abilities of an NPC vampire? What do you think just the dedication feat will give a character? How do you think vampire weaknesses will be handled? Do you think it will just be the Moroi, or will all types be represented?

    What do you hope the answers are to those questions if they differ from how you think it will work?


    What are your thoughts on free archetype? Do you prefer games with or without it? Do you recommend it?


    The summoner is an interaction class with a lot of different build options, but what are the main roles that each half of them can fill?

    Off the top of my head:

    The summoner can be a:
    debuffer with intimidation and spells
    buffer, with all of the inbuilt ways to buff your eidolon and spells

    the eidolon could be build as:
    a melee controller with grappling and tripping
    a minionmancy spellcaster
    a skirmisher.

    What other roles can they fill?


    The undecided player just confirmed they are going to go catfolk/tiefling tyrant champion!

    Does that effect anyone's recommendation? Also am I right that this means the dhampir heritage I was considering is a better option?


    Thank you for all the advice!

    The gm has said I will have access to alignment ampoule.


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    Eoran wrote:

    I haven't ever seen an animal that looks like a chair. I have heard of monsters that disguise themselves to look like objects such as a chair. Maybe I just haven't been around in the world long enough.

    I have also seen Inventors with construct companions that they ride. Sometimes those look like animals and sometimes they look like objects such as a chair.

    I just learned about it, it is apparently from grand bazaar: https://2e.aonprd.com/AnimalCompanions.aspx?ID=30

    The legchair inspired this thread, it is just wild! Gives me strong witch hat atelier vibes which I really like!

    I really like the idea of an inventor who rides their construct, sounds like a fun playstyle!


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    A fiend focused barbarian would be cool!

    Something like the vivisectionist alchemist would be hard to be pull off but would be awesome.

    It would have thematic overlap with the familiar master archetype, but an alchemist that focuses on their familiar, making a combat ready alchemical homunculus, would be awesome to play.

    An undead eidolon would open up a lot of character ideas.


    Pf2e now has a lot of options for animal companion mounts. For example, you could ride a normal animal like a horse or a camel, a fantasy beast like a drake or a giant bird, or go for for something unique and ride a completely alive animal that looks like a chair.

    How do you think the various mount options compare to each other? What type of character do you think would want each mount? Which one is your favorite?


    I had been planning on playing an alchemist in a campaign, but a comment on one of my posts has made me think of the possibility of instead playing an investigator.

    The campaign is mostly going to be fighting fiends, and will have a lot of travel and exploration. The gm is using the automatic bonus progression variant rule (with the change that alchemical item bonuses are now potency bonuses). The other characters are a ranged scoundrel rogue, a melee thief rogue, and either a paladin champion or a spirit barbarian. The campaign will go from level 1 to 20

    The goal is to play a creepy non-magical doctor, think something like Herbert West or Frankenstein. No matter what I am going to take the medic archetype to get the doctor vibe, and boost occultism so I can make zombies (the dm said I should be able to access rituals). Ancestry will be elf, not sure whether to go dhampir heritage or one of the normal elf ones.

    I like the idea of the alchemist because I really want to lean into playing a pure support role, I like doing something different every turn, I can get crowd control, the variety of items helps me rp as a mad scientist, and I won't overlap with the rogues. I like the idea of the investigator because it seems like a better healer, I can roleplay his medical knowledge letting him spot weak points in enemies he has studied, I can use a war razor as a weapon which feels flavorful, and since this will be my first long campaign as a player there is less of a chance of me messing it up. The alchemist my main worry is under preforming, as an investigator my main worry is not feeling like a support.

    What's your suggestion on which to pick? Why do you think that option fits?


    Alright thank you for the feedback! Maybe not the best idea then.

    What about a paladin champion with the warrior background, a meteor hammer, and the domain initiate feat? The domain would give me one spell, not enough to overwhelm but enough to at least try it out.

    Does that seem decent? Is so, are there any domains you would recommend? (Or gods that would give those domains?)

    People on another site recommended an eldritch trickster racket rogue with the telekinetic maneuver spell. What do yall think of that option?

    Btw this character would be for society play if that changes anything.


    I am looking for a character build that would be good for learning pf2e. Specifically, my hope for this character is to try out as much of pf2e as I can, so that I understand how all the subsystems work, and I can hopefully pick up any future characters easier since I will get the basic gist of how they function.

    My best ideas so far are a warpriest with the herbalist dedication or an alchemical investigator with the wizard/witch multiclass. Either way you get experience with spellcasting, martial strikes, and alchemy. The warpriest also seems pretty simple, so there wouldn't be much slowing you down from learning the basics.

    Any other recommendations?


    Castilliano wrote:

    Well now you're going all over the place. Which is fine, but you're going to have to separate your requests for clarity.

    A party w/ two Rogues supported by an Alchemist sounds risky, as in the first creature immune to precision damage will likely destroy y'all. Unless you have several other teammates too, like a tank and caster.

    Yes, a Fighter makes a good foundation for an Alchemist or caster.

    Any PC can have several good skills, no need to settle for one. Since skill feats no longer compete with other feats (as in 3.X/PF1) everyone can learn some cool skill tricks. Also Backgrounds, Ancestry feats, and Multiclass Archetypes can broaden one's skill base quite well.

    "Builds" isn't quite the right term in PF2 since unlike 3.X/PF1, you don't have to invest a lot to excel at a task. There aren't many side abilities to hunt down and accumulate.
    Does Fighter work well with Intimidate? Yes, with heavy armor they can free up stats to get some Charisma. The cost is to their ranged combat ability, but that beats ditching health (or Will saves, Fighters needing their Wisdom a lot because they have low Will saves).
    There's also a Fighter feat that imposes Frightened directly (so no need for Charisma) and another which help you hurt Frightened people more.

    Does Fighter work w/ Athletics? Of course. Having a free hand actually works in PF2. The feats that support that are obvious, though note those will dig into any Dedication you're think of getting. It's a more defensive style, yet w/ trip & Opportunity Attack it works well w/ a team. (And having a free hand is great for consumables and interacting w/ one's environment, i.e. climbing or grabbing things, both which in PFS I feel have value.)
    If you only want to trip (and IMO that's the only maneuver worth regularly doing) then get a Trip weapon, 18 Str, & Athletics and you're good to go. Meteor Hammer does the trick, and has cool imagery. A Guisarme works too, though I prefer MH's blunt damage.
    The benefit of this route is you don't need any feats to...

    Sorry my last post wasn't clear, that alchemist is for a campaign thats starting in like 4-6 months, I don't need to build him yet! (also i am really hoping paizo releases some sort of fleshwarping alchemist specialization before I make him)

    It also might be worth making a diffrent post later just listing everything I would want in a character and seeing what fits best instead of leading with the ruffian rogue..

    I REALLY do like the sound of what your saying about a meteor hammer fighter though, thats rad! I think I would avoid the alchemist with this character, seems like that might be too many things at once. I do like the idea of the caster even if it isn't the best, since it would let me try out spellcasting. Any recomendation for which of those class dedications work best? Seems like it would be best to avoid druid.


    Alright interesting, seems like I might want to save a ruffian for another situation, maybe when I have more experiance with pf2e (or I can play an ancestery with an unarmed strike, like maybe a hobgoblin beastkin or something)

    The toxicoligist is deffinitly meant to be a support character handing out poison's to that party's two rogues. So this character probably won't be great practice for that other than getting used to the system, good to know!

    I like the idea of a fighter, maybe I could try out an alchemist dedication or a spellcaster dedication instead of focusing on skills? As long as I have one good skill it isn't too much worry. Are there any good intimidation and athletics based fighter builds? I kind of like the idea of a meteor hammer, but free hand fighter also sounds fun!


    I played my first pf2e character the other day, a dwarf mountain stance monk, and it was super fun! But I decided that I wanted to play something with a bigger focus on the social and skill part of the game, while still getting to play with the fun athletics tricks I could do as a monk.

    Ruffian rogue seems like the best bet, as I I can get a bunch of skills, can still trip people, and have charisma for intimidation!

    Other than that, any other tips for a good ruffian rogue build? This character is for pathfinder society one shots, so no uncommon content or much downtime. My goal with this character (other than just having fun playing some one shots) is to get an understanding of the system so I am ready for a longer campaign down the line where I will be playing a toxicologist alchemist, anything I should try out with this rogue to help prep myself for the alchemist? Any other tips?


    What characters do you think are the most fun at level one? Are there any you would avoid as you feel they need a couple levels before they get going? If you were to play a campaign that would stay at level 1, what would you play?


    breithauptclan wrote:

    Ancestry doesn't matter as much. Versatile Heritage choices can usually be taken by any Ancestry.

    Duskwalker heritage is certainly one option for getting some of that undead feeling. Though I would also point out the recent Revenant background. It doesn't take your heritage choice and it gives you negative healing - which is cool (hard to play, but really cool). Though that does mean that you couldn't also take the Gambler background. You could even do both Duskwalker and Revenant.

    Bard is a fine choice for class. Though there is also Oracle or Sorcerer that could fit the theme well enough too.

    Rfkannen wrote:
    The most important feature is the ability to hear the stories of dead people;

    There is the Consult the Spirits skill feat, but it won't be available until level 7 at the earliest. Requires Master proficiency in Occultism to talk to spirits.

    I think there are some options that come online earlier, but not as freely available. Ancestor Oracle could give you something like that immediately. Maybe take it at level 2 with the Oracle Archetype. There is also the Spirit Sense spell available to Occult tradition at level 2.

    But you could also run it just that Perception and the Occultism skill are sufficient to be able to sense the presence of lingering spirits and be able to communicate with them for role-play only.

    Revenant sounds awesome for a backstory! doubling up could be a ton of fun!

    Wow consult the spirits is like... literrally everything I wanted this character to be able to do. Its nuts that its a skill feat anyone can take!!! that is DEFFINITLY going on the character!

    Temperans wrote:

    If you wait some time the Book of the Dead is supposed to come out with some playable undead. Which probably will include skeletons. This would be helpful for your character.

    As for "psychopomp themed", well that is going to be pretty hard to do with default book stuff. Psychopomps in PF2 (aka Golarion) are SUPER anti undead creation. They would rather die then create an undead creature, meaning your character wouldn't exists.

    On that note, the very premise of your character would straight up fail with the Grim Reapers and Minor Reapers described in the pathfinder books. Those thing are uncaring, cruel, and unrelenting manifestations of death. Related either to the creation of the negative plane or the personification of Abaddon itself. They are hated by both Psychopomps and Celestials

    ****************
    With all that said PF2 characters are best built by thinking of the lore/aesthetics you want first then maximize around it. The exact feats and stuff don't really matter unless you are going for something highly specific.

    Oh rad! this game is actually a fair while in the future (we are currently in the big arc of another gms game, then he wants to finish running a game thats been on a two year hiatus, and THEN we would play this, so it'll almost defenitly start after that book comes out!

    In his homebrew setting theres only one psychopomp and it's name is death (I was just calling it the grim reaper for convenience) My idea for this character having undead stuff was less death intentionally giving him that power and more him getting some level of control over life and death by besting death at cards. Also I was considering him technically being alive but with no flesh, which might work with duskwalkers.


    My dm has this amazing fantasy western campaign prepped. Today, he mentioned that since pf2e has better gun rules than 5e, it might be worth switching systems. I want to play more pf2e, so I am super up for this.

    A problem with switching is that all the pcs have character concepts picked out for the campaign. So I thought it would be fun to show off how good pf2e's character creation system is by building my character in pf2e and having him be more thematic than his original 5e version. However I don't know pf2e very well, so I could use your help!

    For context, not-divine magic is illegal in this setting, and people will kill you if you show you have it. Jack was your classic scoundrel wanderer; with nothing but a guitar, he would lie and cheat his way from town to town. One day his luck ran out, and folks realized that he was using charms to be as charming as he was, so they shot him and left him to die in the desert. When the grim reaper came to pick up Jack's soul, jack challenged it to a game of poker; if jack won, he would be brought back to life; if he lost, he would go quietly into the night. Jack cheated, and the reaper noticed. The reaper revived Jack since he won, but since jack cheated, his flesh was rotted from the bone, leaving him a living skeleton, and the reaper left jack some chores he would have to do if he wanted a decent afterlife next time he passed.

    Aka, he is the protagonist of where the water tastes like wine, lol. I just really wanted to play a skeleton with a guitar.

    The character was a spirit bard with a dip in hexblade for eldritch blast, but I'm not tied to any of those mechanics (and he isn't supposed to be a gish). All I want is a bard with necromantic or psychopomp-themed abilities. The most important feature is the ability to hear the stories of dead people; 5e has tales from beyond; maybe this character can get some speak with dead power? Heritage is duskwalker. I didn't decide the ancestry yet. Anything cowboy or western themed is nice but not nececary. I want this character to be as death-themed as a bard can get, and I am willing to change his story to fit that more.

    Any tips for making this character in pf2e?


    Perpdepog wrote:

    IMO you already have some fairly different possible builds with just those sets of feats. One good way to make sure your characters stay different is to also consider how both classes manipulate movement. Monks are good at pushing people around, but, at least as far as I can tell, they are better at moving themselves wherever they need to be.

    If you build a barb who is good at pushing others around, and a monk who is good at pushing themselves where they have to go, then I think you'll come up with some pretty different playstyles.

    Or you can focus on different kinds of movement with both. Reflective Ripple Stance, and its feats, give a monk lots of good ways to Trip enemies, and also Shove them, but not much Grapple game, like a barbarian would have.

    Alright rad! I don't have much experiance with either so I am glad to hear they do that diffrently!

    Reflectibe ripple stance was one of the main monk stances I was looking at!! (the other was gorrila) I really like the idea of playing an undine monk with the reflecting ripple stance! (not sure what would be a good main ancestry for that though) I am glad to hear that would feel different from a grapple barb!


    The main classes I most want to try out (after my alchemist) are barbarian and monk. However I am worried that playing those classes in a row could make gameplay kind of monotonous, as both have a lot of feats for tossing people around the battlefield and maneuvers. I really enjoy that type of martial control, but I am concerned that I will accidently make two characters who play exactly the same. so I was wondering if y'all had any tips for making members of those classes that wouldn't feel similar to play.

    The feats I am most interested in for each class:
    Barbarian: oversized throw, friendly toss, quaking stomp.
    monk: ki blast, ki form, timeless body.

    Any ideas? What types of builds would mix things up between those characters and feel different in gameplay?


    Watery Soup wrote:

    I find Continual Recovery more useful than Ward Medic.

    What do your daily preparations look like at level 1? 5? 10?

    Make sure your familiar has the appropriate feats to do what you want it to do. The Extra Reagent is tempting but if its primary purpose is delivering stuff that needs feats too.

    As someone above pointed out, chirugeons start off slow. The minor elixir of life kind of sucks.

    I've never used Healing Bombs but that's worth looking into. Maybe you can pick it up late, with that extra 10th level feat or something.

    Im not sure at higher levels, but at level 1 I was thinking of preparing 2 elixers of life, 4 thunder bombs, 2 drakeheart mutagens to hand out, and 2 giant centipede poisons. Does that seem about right?

    My plan for the familiar was to give it manual dexterity and valet.

    Should I not use minor elixirs of life till high level?

    continual recovery does look better! I think ill switch that out!


    Watery Soup wrote:

    I find Continual Recovery more useful than Ward Medic.

    What do your daily preparations look like at level 1? 5? 10?

    Make sure your familiar has the appropriate feats to do what you want it to do. The Extra Reagent is tempting but if its primary purpose is delivering stuff that needs feats too.

    As someone above pointed out, chirugeons start off slow. The minor elixir of life kind of sucks.

    I've never used Healing Bombs but that's worth looking into. Maybe you can pick it up late, with that extra 10th level feat or something.

    Im not sure at higher levels, but at level 1 I was thinking of preparing 2 elixers of life, 4 thunder bombs, 2 drakeheart mutagens to hand out, and 2 giant centipede poisons. Does that seem about right?

    My plan for the familiar was to give it manual dexterity and valet.

    Should I not use minor elixirs of life till high level?

    continual recovery does look better! I think ill swich that out!


    Looks like I can't edit posts, but I meant the stats were str 10, con 10, wis 14, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.

    also at level one I take ancestral longevity


    Okay so second try, how does this character look?

    Name: Hipoc
    class: Alchemist
    ancestry: elf
    background: barber
    Heritage: whisper elf
    research field: chirugeon
    Starting ability scores: str 10, con 12, wis 12, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.
    Starting skills: acrobatics, arcana, crafting, medicine, nature, occultism, religion, society, stealth
    Skills priority: Medicine, crafting, religion

    lv 1: alchemical familiar
    lv 2: battle medicine, medic dedication
    lv 3: ward medic
    lv 4: treat condition, doctor's visitation
    lv 5: ageless patience
    lv 6: magical crafting, combine elixirs
    lv 7: godless healing
    lv 8: perpetual breadth bomber, inventor
    lv 9: expert longevity
    lv 10: paragon battle medicine, merciful elixir
    lv 11: consult the spirits
    lv 12: trick magic item, if extend elixir isn't a good pick I have no idea what to take here. Maybe potent poisoner?
    lv 13: universal longevity
    lv 14: advanced first aid, greater merciful elixir
    lv 15: legendary medic
    lv 16: resuscitate, tattoo artist
    lv 17: magic rider
    lv 18: craft anything: miracle worker
    lv 19: divine guidance
    lv 20: craft philosophers stone, mortal healing.

    What do you think? My main problem is I had no idea what order to take the skill feats.


    I picked mutagenist mostly through the process of elimination. My concept was a mad elf doctor looking for immortality. Unfortunately, bomber doesn't fit the concept of playing a doctor. chiurgenist is weird in that it actively rewards not raising medicine. Also, since the main enemies we will be fighting are devils, I will not play a toxicologist (focusing on a damage type your main enemy is resistant to would not feel great). So I was left with mutagenist.

    Chirurgeon was the best fit thematically, but on top of the fact that if I wanted to raise medicine, I would have to ignore my main class feature, I was also worried that our party wouldn't need a healer because we have a champion. I had heard that champions provide all the out of combat healing you could ever need.

    The elven weapon feats were mainly for the rapier, as a mutagenist, I felt I needed a melee option, but as I was focused on dex, I needed to get a finesse weapon.
    All the bomb feats were for a similar reason, I mostly want to be an elixir vendor, but I was worried about what I would be doing after the first round of combat when everyone had already taken my elixirs. So I assumed making enemies flatfooted with thunder bombs would be my best option.

    I can definitely convince the paladin player to use poisons against enemies they will work on.

    The paladin and my character are also supposed to know each other, my character is actually in the group to help him deal with a long running magical illness. Since our two characters are connected, I thought it would be fun to have our characters synergize mechanically and not overlap too much. I thought giving him mutagens would be the best way to do that.

    Are any of my assumptions faulty? Would another build work better?


    This is my first time building an alchemist, and I was hoping to get y'alls opinions on my build!

    My goal is to play a support character who goes around handing out mutagens and elixirs to the rest of the party. In particular, I like the idea of giving a juggernaut mutagen and a bravo's brew to the party's champion and giving quicksilver mutagens and centipede poison to the rogue. I don't care about melee combat; I just want to be able to hand out tons of mutagens.

    The campaign will be mostly about fighting fiends, and the gm has said that I can def get the uncommon bomb that does alignment damage. The campaign will also be nautical, which could make the new tattoos extra fun. It will be levels 1 to 20.

    The other members of the party are:
    a goblin rogue
    a catfolk tiefling paladin champion with a two-handed greatsword
    a mountain stance-focused monk.

    Class: alchemist
    ancestry: elf
    background: barber
    Heritage: ancient elf, rogue dedication, battle medicine feat.
    research field: mutagenist
    Starting ability scores: str 10, con 12, wis 12, dex 16, int 18, cha 10.
    starting skills: acrobatics, arcana, athletics, crafting, diplomacy, intimidation medicine, occultism, society, thievery
    Priority of skills: crafting, medicine, society
    Feats:
    lv 1: battle medicine, alchemical familiar, elven weapon familiarity
    lv 2: tattoo artist, revivifying mutagen
    1v 3: diehard
    lv 4: magical crafting, calculated splash
    lv 5: elven weapon elegance
    lv 6:speciality crafting (alchemy), combine elixirs
    lv 7: inventor
    lv 8:stick bombs, ward medic
    lv 9: tree climber
    lv 10: paragon battle medicine, calculated splash
    lv 11: advanced first aid
    lv 12: extend elixir, trick magic item
    lv 13: elven weapon expertise
    lv 14: biographical eye, perpetual breadth (bomber)
    lv 15: craft anything
    lv 16, eternal elixir, rapid affixture
    lv 17: magic rider
    lv 18: legendary medic, improbable elixir
    lv 19: legendary codebreaker
    lv 20: craft philosophers stone, additional lore fiends.

    What do you think? Any tips for improving it?

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