Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Just thought this would be an interesting idea but each rune should provide a passive buff until activated. Once I activate it, the passive buff goes away but something big happens For example a rune of shielding might give me or the rune bearer a passive 1 AC but when i activate it, it provides 10 temporary HP and that passive buff vanishes. Each rune should have these passive bonuses until they are activated.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
AestheticDialectic wrote: I don't think 2 slot per level is taking up all that much power budget at all, and frankly I think y'all should consider that something like getting an undead companion is already covered by the undead master at the same efficiency as it would appear in the class itself. The class will still keep the core thrall mechanic no matter what changes occur Did they get rid of the evil alignment requirement for this though?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I think the class would benefit GREATLY if it's power budget got rid of spellcasting from its power budget. Make thralls into companions and can cast different focus spells depending on which type of undead they have. Then the necromancer can deal 1d4 damage (per every 2 levels) to the thrall to cast a focus spell without using a focus point. Some of the focus spells could be support spells such as the necromancer takes bones from a skeleton to create bone armor around an ally, or a spirit will create an aoe of void energy, etc etc. We also already have undead companions as initial support for the class. Currently the thrall mechanism is super confusing when we already have companions as a concept. Can someone attack my thralls? What are their stats? Etc etc. I didn't immediately see where it's stats are. The necromancer could simply be a companion focused class that can drain the life of it's companion in order to cast powerful focus spells. Furthermore it's focus spells could be slightly stronger than normal focus spells but can't cast any focus spells without the companion and their max focus spell points instead of 3 is 0. We already have Vancian spellcasting for a necromancer like system through wizard where they can get an undead summon and cast necromancer spells etc. I think the class would be FAR more interesting and streamlined without vancian spellcasting. Plus, I'm personally a bit done with the Vancian system and having occult spells seems meh Maybe include a mechanism where when you drain your thrall of life to cast a spell the more like you drain the stronger the spell. For example.. deal 2d4 damage to the thrall, and ally gains temp hp equal to the amount drained. And allow for a system where we can customize our thrall companions as well by allowing them to get their own feats depending on the type of undead it is.. make bone necromancers very different from flesh necromancers very different from spirit necromancers. The class would feel significantly less clunky and combine familiarity with some new interpretations of this familiarity.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Easl wrote:
I just don't think cool weapons like that should be punished.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
MadScientistWorking wrote:
How can you "start off legendary" with wizard dedication?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
MadScientistWorking wrote:
I was wrong about falcata. It does go up to expert. But expert with how tight the math is significantly hurts and it is very noticeable with how much accuracy I have. The damage drops pretty dramatically.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I don't mean power wise. I mean feel wise. An ogre fighter should play differently than an elf fighter. Balanced but different.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I also don't think ancestry feats have enough impact. I wish an orc fighter felt very different from an elf fighter but they mostly feel the same.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The more dedications that exist the more "system mastery" comes into play. For new players it would absolutely be overwhelming to sift through all the bad dedications and try to find the diamond in the rough.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Blave wrote:
This is what's known as a strawman also a false dichotomy. Let's assume that each class is powered based on numbers. A full classes power is represented by '1' The way the current system is set up is that the main class is '1' while a dedication is around 1/3rd the power. There is no synergy between the main class and the dedication. They often compete over niches such as actions. The main class wins every time. To avoid power creep, a dedication should make the main class 0.8 and the dedication 0.8 instead of 1 and .33. Make the abilities have a the ability to have synergy, but not be as strong as just doing a main class without a dedication. As it stands right now most dedications aren't useful. Oracle dedication with flame incendiary aura on a fire kineticist is very synergistic. But that's a rarity. I also have to give up 2 kineticist feats to get incendiary aura. Most dedications though aren't useful, compete over the same niche, aren't synergistic, and as such end up as trap options that NO ONE takes. When the book is filled with crap trap options like this, what's the point of them even being in the game? I'd rather have a few options that are all enticing than thousands of options that no one uses.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
One of the things I hope PF3E accomplishes is to acknowledge the dedication issue. For example - A fighter with summoner dedication The summoner dedication now allows the fighter to become a synthesis summoner. They only have both fighter feats and Eidolon abilities while the synthesis eidolon is summoned. It combines the two rather than try to have them competing over niches.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Blave wrote:
The issue is, it feels like 90% are trap options. Like, a summoner dedication. My Eidolon is useless in combat and my main class is significantly better than my Eidolon, so what's the point of having an Eidolon or the summoner dedication as a whole? At that point it feels like a waste of feats. This isn't just a rare instance. It's ubiquitous. The problem I see is that when 90% of options are useless or attempt to interfere with a niche your main class already accomplishes, the dedications don't supplement the main class. It tries to subvert what the main class can do, but at 1/3rd the strength of the main class, making getting the dedication worthless. There is almost no way to do synergy between classes at all which causes issues. I'd rather have it not be an option, than to be an option but not be viable.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
As much as I've been a supporter of paizo, there is something innately broken about the maths and game design PF2E has and I feel like the game itself is beating a dead horse at this point. For example - I love the idea of having 1 level for the character. This makes things easier to understand. (Instead of how PF1E was, where I was like 2 barbarian, 3 fighter, 1 magus etc) I also love the idea that the maths are significantly simplified. However, with this stated, there are some obvious issues with the game design. 1) The Issue: Dedications are all but worthless in most cases. If I have wizard dedication, the way the maths work, the spells will be resisted frequently. It makes it so I can't be a fighter with wizard dedication and then be able to cast any offensive spells. They all have to be regulated to support spells. If I try to utilize it for any offensive spells, the turn will almost certainly be wasted, which reduces character tempo. The fix: Make it so a dedication doesn't feel like a waste of feats. Make it so it feels like the two classes are merged instead of having the dedication feel like it's 1/3rd the power of the main class. Allow for synergy between the main class and the dedication to occur. 2) The Issue: The maths involved in the proficiencies is broken. If I want to wield a Falcata, in 99% of the cases, I can't wield one at high level. The math is very tight in PF2E where even 1 status bonus to attack is noticeable as seen with bard songs being powerful. As it stands, if I wield a Falcata as say a thaum, id be taking a whopping -6 to attack as it wont advance past trained. If I use a feat for heavy armor, if my class doesn't progress to mastery, that's a whopping -4 to AC at high level with that as well. The general feats that allow for proficiency simply don't work when playing a high level campaign, making them useless feats. If there were better feat support later on such as allowing me to take additional feats to increase said proficiency, that would be a different story. To further complicate the matter, without an understanding of the maths involved and the underlying complications this creates, people new to the system wont understand how these are trap options and will select them and then they'll end up getting screwed in the end. The fix: Open it up a bit more. Stop being so restrictive with what is viable. Allow viability with multiple options if people want. 3) The Issue: It's been 5 years since PF2E first released In PF1E I was subscribed to paperback books and I was VERY excited for new books to come in as I knew they would have new options for my favorite pet class. One of the reasons I loved PF1E so much was that every month there were new options, new ways to be creative, new synergies to think of. Nowadays though, in the past 5 years, there has been 1 new instinct for barbarian. Almost no class archetypes, and the ones that exist are straight garbage and downgrades (when class archetypes were literally my favorite part of PF1E), I rarely see support for older classes, I was excited for kineticist but my favorite element (void) will never be coming to PF2E. I highly doubt we will ever see a synthesis summoner either. From what it seems like to me, once a class is released, that class gets abandoned for the next "biggest thing" rinse and repeat. There's no more support, or at least what appears to be very little support, once a class comes out and this is a bit frustrating especially coming from the PF1E paradigm that we grew to love. The fix: We need far more support released far more frequently for existing classes and make new classes that come out be rarer. I'd rather support what we do have than for new classes to try to fill niches that are already filled by what's currently available. The issue I see at the end of the day is that we have classes no one actually plays because they are just subpar compared to what's already been released. I loved the idea of inventor, and I played it a few times, but do I know of anyone who still plays inventor? No. I rarely ever hear it mentioned. We need classes that fill specific niches and then we need variations on how to support said niches. When we release new class after new class that tries to take up niches that already exist, those classes will just be forgotten about and no one will want to play them. I'd rather have archetypes people forget about than whole classes people forget about. 4) The Issue: Backgrounds and skill feats seem like a decent idea to help flesh out a character and give them more options, but in all honesty, these feel like you're 'restricting' backgrounds and the ability to RP a character rather than assisting. When we put backgrounds behind, say, stat blocks, I tend to look at what backgrounds my character can actually have so I dont fall behind in my party rather than any RP semblance of it. The fix: Make backgrounds and skill feats actually mean something and have a bigger impact and dont make it so I cant select the background I want because it's behind some arbitrary stat increase. I've also heard people complain in a tongue in cheek way that they can't even "take a s#~~ without taking the feat for it" when I tried to convince them to play PF2E. 5) The Issue: Stats are redundant and outdated at this point. In early D&D, stats made sense to help flesh out characters, but now I've noticed that when I play PF2E or D&D5E, the stats are the exact same all the time. Maximize my class stat, dump my bad stat. If all stats are now the same because i feel like my class can't function without maximizing my class stat, thats an issue. The fix: Get rid of stats completely. It's an archaic system at this point that has become useless to gauge effectiveness and if you don't build appropriately, it can hurt you more than help you. 6) The Issue: In order to promote RP sentimentality, you put points into charisma. This allows you to deceive, intimidate, or have diplomacy. If you can't do any of that because charisma is your dump stat, the game no longer is an RP game. You're just waiting around for the next combat so you can feel useful. Otherwise the sorcerer is in charge of doing all the RP. The fix: Get rid of charisma as a stat. There shouldn't be a stat that gatekeeps being able to RP. Stop gate keeping the ability to RP efficiently because you aren't a certain class. 7) The Issue: Choices aren't meaningful enough. A lot of times I select certain choices and I'm just like, "Eh. I guess." rather than get excited for it. The fix: Make each choice meaningful and impactful to the way the character is designed and works,
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mellored wrote:
Why did I picture Abe Simpson just now lol
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
exequiel759 wrote:
I will say I really appreciate your posts, as you're able to say the thing I am saying but much nicer. ;) I'm pretty exhausted at dishonest arguments. But also when someone says, "martial" i think of 'not magic' Not "striking' The issue is, is that we haven't had a truly non-magical (ie martial) support in PF1 OR PF2 without being significantly clever and cheesy with the rules. In PF1e I did make a support that gave 6 of my allies +11 AC as long as they were in reach which was a support martial character utilizing multiple class dips. (Alchemist for his many arms, Skald for the AC song variants, etc) (But even that skald was using magic since I was using songs, I guess...)
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Unicore wrote:
If ya'll had it your way, ya'll would want each class to do DPS. Just different flavors of DPS.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
exequiel759 wrote:
I absolutely LOVE playing support and the support martial I want to see is one that helps my allies do their thing better by giving them extra attacks or casting an extra spell or something like that.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote: Taking away martial weapon proficiency from the commander raises a big risk of it being relatively useless or going unused in PFS games where the team isn't set up to cooperate/benefit or resents a player who doesn't directly contribute anything. I don't understand how "cannot strike" somehow equates to "doesn't contribute at all" Do you not understand the concept of support? In Everquest 1, enchanters were an ESSENTIAL part of the group set up. You did NOT want them using any damaging spells on the enemies. They were control and pure support classes. ALL they did was support. The idea of support is still CONTRIBUTING. If I spend 1 action using the bards song, is that a wasted action? Are bards basically just "two action classes" which aren't as useful as any other class? Of course not. That would be silly. The idea of a pure support class "not contributing" when they are literally utilizing support capabilities is wild to me. I want my commander to be a support commander. Not just, "This is another DPS class, but now called commander!"
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
exequiel759 wrote:
I for one love playing support.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
exequiel759 wrote:
This is one thing I dislike about the community. New class gets released. We want to play the class but using a different playstyle that hasn't been explored before. The community argues against it and says, "No. We want another fighter but THIS time it's named Commander!" I've seen previous playtests be the same way where the community would rather not be innovative and would rather experience things and play things we've already experienced and played. We already have these things. Why do we need the niche filled but under a different name?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
GameDesignerDM wrote:
In PF1 there were Bard builds and some Cleric build (Evangelist I believe) that ONLY focused on support and buffing people up. They didn't wade into battle. Why can't commander do the same?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
GameDesignerDM wrote:
Including bards? That are there solely for support?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
GameDesignerDM wrote:
Strategists and tacticians usually didn't wade into battle themselves.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ectar wrote:
Lets face facts. Archer is the same. They dont need to move into position and archers deal insane amounts of damage. A lot more than commanders would be able to do. You're also wrong as this ability would only effect squadmates (Wasnt mentioned specifically but definitely implied since the class can only effect squadmates) so you need intelligence to effect squadmates. Bards don't require equipment investment. Neither do psychics who have message amp. I may have said that backwards but the intent is to offer a chance for the guy to be too stubborn to follow orders.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
And yes I get pissed when people purposefully misconstrue what i am saying. And yes i know it's on purpose because people arent that dumb to see what I am saying and then accidentally misconstrue it and then continue to argue about it and ignore correction. So yes. He did that on purpose. And no. I do not see how my suggestion, which actually deals less dps than the current thing in the PDF is somehow OP.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I am not using it as a generic insult when I am saying that they are misconstruing my argument. Even my original post said, "The same ally cannot be selected more than once per round" and he still said, "Barbarian strikes twice and rogue strikes once" how is it not a strawman at that point? lol
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dubious Scholar wrote:
A strawman is misconstruing an argument. I know what it is. When I repeatedly, not once, not twice, but 5 times said that MAP works for the entirety of the strikes, including whatever the commander does and he repeatedly ignores me and adds +5 to it that is a strawman. When I repeatedly said you can target the same ally once with it per round and he adds the barbarian strikes twice to his argument that is a strawman.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Pronate11 wrote: If one person misunderstands you, that person has just misunderstood you. if everyone is misunderstanding you, maybe its time to step back and explain yourself better. Incorrect. People need to ask questions if something isnt understood and actually read my responses rather than ignore my responses when I try to clarify.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
I will repeat myself in hopes of preventing further strawmen from being murdered. This is given at level 1 as part of the chassis. It is not a feat. You cannot pick this up as a diff class. Command: Strike Now! > or >> (Attack trait) If you spend one action, you can make a strike with an ally using your MAP to make a strike within reach of that ally. If you spend 2 actions, you can have an ally use a cantrip instead of a strike. Can not target the same ally more than once per round with this ability. Multiclass benefit (which I didnt previously add) could be Command: Strike Now! >>
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dubious Scholar wrote:
Your proof is to further strawman my argument? How many strawmen can you guys make in one argument? Seriously? Did you not see the part where I said it's part of the class chassis? You get it built in at level 1? That its not a feat you can pick up? So how is your wizard magically getting this ability? Thats like saying Fighter is over powered because you can just multiclass into fighter to get the +2 bonus to attack and be expert in attack, or you can just multiclass into ranger to get the MAP reduction or you can just multiclass into therm and get the full effect of their abilities to deal more damage.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
Oh look more strawman. What part of, "Can only target one ally per turn with this ability" are you struggling with?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
The vast majority aren't saying I am wrong lol. If you understood statistics, youd understand that the vast majority are silent and the people who want to argue with others are vastly more likely to respond than those who agree who often keep quiet. Just because you and one or two others piped up doesnt give you the right to use an appeal to popularity on me when its gauged on bad statistical data.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
How is it overpowered? Archer deals more damage than a commander would. Its hilarious that whenever I suggest classes get or emphasize cool schticks, yall keep claiming its OP when other classes can do that thing and more.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Because you apparently don't know the rules to this game, I said it would have the attack trait. https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=540&Redirected=1 "An ability with this trait involves an attack. For each attack you make beyond the first on your turn, you take a multiple attack penalty. " WHICH MEANS if you make a strike using another player as a CONDUIT that strike is effected as per MAP and you keep IGNORING what I am saying and arguing with me. Rather than ask QUESTIONS TO CLARIFY you keep arguing with me. It is absolutely obnoxious.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
And I clarified several f*+~ing times and you refused to listen to me and you ignored what I was saying!
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
Mellored understood after I clarified, why can't you?
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
Okay sure if you randomly strawman my argument and refuse to be corrected and you add in a random +5 to barbarians attack. But im the one doing math wrong. Uh huh.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
I LITERALLY F&**ING DID MULTIPLE TIMES!!! 7/2/-3 7/2/-3 7/2-3 Doesn't matter who's making the attack on the commanders turn (except fighter who gets a +2) it's still 7/2/-3 MAP EFFECTS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT THE COMMANDER IS DOING! You are adding a random +5 bonus FOR NO REASON to the barbarians attack and acting SURPRISED that it now deals more DPS as a result than barbarian because now you're ignoring MAP when my argument is including MAP. For f@$$ sake dude.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mellored wrote:
IF your barbarian has a d12 weapon and you can only target him once per turn with it.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
pH unbalanced wrote:
*sigh* Again with other people being disingenuous. Psychics also get spells they can use 2 actions on. Casters are balanced around only casting 1 spell per turn and not balanced around striking. They are balanced around casting level 9 spells or level 10 spells at high level and that additional action usually isnt used for much, as such, that ability deserves to be slightly on the weaker end. Since this would be the commanders main schtick and since they do not get level 9 or 10 spells, the power budget can be afforded to it.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
shroudb wrote:
Stop being an idiot. It frustrates me. I already explained to you the math that you used was wrong. Insisting its right is insisting that the strawman you created is my argument when its not. You then used this bad model which has nothing at all to do with my argument as evidence my argument is wrong. Why are you being dishonest? I dont know how many different ways I must explain this to you for you to get it. At this point I assume you are doing this on purpose making you dishonest. It's simple. The commanders ability has the attack trait. So if I attack with commander with a +7, then barbarian, barbarian, then rogue, the math is +7/+2/-3. You dont get to randomly give the barbarian +5 because you feel like distorting what I am saying. Stop being dishonest.
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