Gobhaggo's page

I think a monstrous Thing-esque flesh abomination should also be something in it's wheelhouse for my preferences, but a strictly animal+magic animal Shifter is fine too.

I mean so does Witch and Familiar Wizard.

Even Marshal has a bit of Commander in it

And even asking to change damage from Bashing to Slashing is usually more of a (minor) self-nerf anyways

Thank you both.

Gobhaggo, Teridax those are much needed and appreciated suggestions!

Cleaned up the language a bit. Now the initial focus spell has a heightened effect to keep it relevant.
Changed up the limitation on the advanced spell and made it play nice with spell substitution. With this version you can change up lower rank spells several at a time or several times a day but an on rank spell will always be once a day unless you have spell substitution.

Initial spell: Bend Entropy - Focus 1 - 2 actions - You have studied the ebb and flow of time knowing how to bend it slightly to your will. Choose a target within 30ft, that creature either gains the quickened condition for 1 round or becomes slow 1 for 1 round with a Will save against your spellcasting DC.

Heightened +2- you may choose an additional target within 30 feet to either quicken or slow.

Advanced spell: Draw on Future Selves - Focus 4 - 3 actions - Your future selves lend you their aid going back in time advising your past self on a spell to prepare changing spells you prepared that day. Choose a number of your unspent spell slots totaling up to the value of your current highest spell rank, select eligible spells from your spellbook for those spell slots. Change the prepared spells to the new selected spells.
Once you have selected enough spell slots to equal the value of your highest spell rank this spell cannot be used again until the next day.
If you have the spell substitution thesis you may select spell slots totaling in value up to double your highest spell rank instead.

Still not a big fan on Draw since it'd take quite a bit of time to do mid-combat while also being complicated but if you're deadset on it I suppose this works well.

Bend Entropy is very nice, a good 'slot replacer' kind of spell

bend entropy should probably be get a heightened effect to increase the amount of targets ala Haste and oracle's Time Skip. Maybe have it also deal small amount of damage? an Xd4 that can slow that targets will and slows seems like a good feeling focus spell for 2a.

Draw is a bad focus spell but a good power, and kinda bad on a spell sub. Appreciated but a once per day replace slot for 3 action is not what a focus spell should be, focus spell should be a consistent go-to that's reliable per encounter.

Gobhaggo wrote:

I'm of the personal opinion that making a Wisdom caster have lesser power budget for features is also a bad idea(I think Druid should have a more pronounced gimmick and it's lack of one is a blow to my satisfaction for it) but otherwise I agree, I do love my Gish Animist but I'm shameless in my love of high power anyways

Yeah, I can definitely agree that a Druid-style structure isn't very exciting to many players because it lacks the bells and whistles you'd normally get on other classes with more bespoke features. I think this is just part of the issue with Wisdom classes, where using that as a key attribute is already so powerful that it limits how much power can be allocated elsewhere. The Druid mostly just gets their strong chassis, whereas the Cleric has to sacrifice either armor proficiency or spellcasting proficiency to get their divine font and deity perks alongside the progression they need; the Animist in this regard sticks out like a sore thumb by having both an even better chassis than the Druid and a whole heap of class-specific benefits.

I think it's just from the lack of Wisdom classes(I genuinely think the reason there's no WiS psychic is mostly just pagespace and that having an class that can have all three mental KAS is just a bit bizarre but not really a balance issue) existing in the 1st place. I'd argue that Heavy armour prof and STR KAS is about equally as good as being a Wisdom caster.

We have like... the 3rd INT martial in Runesmith for instance and I'm 90% sure it's because it's crafting related and not really power budgeting related..

I'm of the personal opinion that making a Wisdom caster have lesser power budget for features is also a bad idea(I think Druid should have a more pronounced gimmick and it's lack of one is a blow to my satisfaction for it) but otherwise I agree, I do love my Gish Animist but I'm shameless in my love of high power anyways

Feels a bit too stringent IMO. Just keep it as a sustained strike+accuracy booster, and it's really weird that War Spirits discourages you for using martial weapons.

I already did found a fix for it in Magic+ where summoning uses a template design(but a bit more elaborate) for both summoning and battleforms

Because there are a lot of media representations of spellcasting ninja that people want to play? Not even tool use or advanced tactics but straight up mysticism and magic?

And you can be magical without spellcasting, or even need casting slots. A focus martial is fine, we even have Runesmith coming out which is a magical class without traditional spellcasting.

I agree that either a focus martial or one that works like commander with a list of arts would be preferable. Though I myself am not sure on how this class's central mechanical appeal would be, Exemplar has it's Ikon switching and Commander hasusing your party's reaction for better action econ.

I think something like a more free Hunter's Mark where it provided minor-ish benefis(Can always hide from them? Bonuses to feinting and Create a diversion? Backstabber bonus damage?) but can be consumed to do the arts/lesson that are prepared would be interesting. Have some item drawing compression feats for a bit of that tricksiness, low level arts/abilities can work like Rogue exploits where it's just hit then inflict malus or even just hit then teleport 10-20 ft.

I'm imagining that the Marking would be easier to spread around too.

Even outside of being a Gish, a cater liturgist still has some pretty sick abilities for casting. It means that you can consistently double dip in area damage while still moving around with Leaps and Tumbles-as-strides.

Also adding one consideration for that third martial thing; If one of those martials is a Comamnder you'll definitely shot up in value as a Gish Liturgist.

Second chapter of this AP released some stuff for the Exemplar:

Dominion epithets

Hive Plunderer; Sonic or poison, Crit to gain Temp HP equal to half the creature's level, spark transcendence conceals

Death Tresspasser: Void or vitality, Crit to enfeeble on WIll DC, spark trascendence deals 1d6 void damage to any enemy that starts or enters adjacency
Level 8 feat, once per hour:

A feat at 8, Hive can for 2a fly twice your speed and move through gaps and creatures. Dealing 3d4 poison and 3d4 piercing on reflex. +1d4 for each every 2 level
Death trespasser deals 5d10 void and vitality damage on two opposite cones... and doesn't scale

1a after succesfully tripping a creature ne size larger than you, in a 10 ft emanation around the foe, attempt a trip again to everyone in their.... doesn't say you're immune to it tho. Some usual lacking AP editing there.

A mirror aegis specific Ikon that allows you to slow 1 against a melee attacker

Sphinx body Ikon to stupefy for 1a. Success for 1 round, failure for 1d4 round, crit fail for stupefy and confused for 1d4 round

Here's my 'fix' to how making traps work is as a sort of encounter modifier is best--If you trigger the blade trap you take 1d6+3 damage and suffer from 2 persistent bleed damage athen roll initiative as a bunch of elves ambush you--is already a good way to make them matter.

But this does run into the issue of making traps all preceed actual Combats instead of a drain on time, and if you care about verisimilitude this might not even work for you

I do prefer if the Deities have favored weapon /groups/(Maybe with some feats that specifically call for their actual weapon)

Claxon wrote:

I think the Thaumaturge route might the most viable.

Perhaps. But if you have more than 1x1H weapon then do you benefit from Implement Empowerment? I think you could have one of the weapons be your regalia and sidestep it, but a lot of people don't like my interpretation of the IE wording when I say that. Thaumaturge also has almost no reload support, but you could get 1 really good round then use the L6 reload + shoot with decent effect.

I feel like to get the most out of this, dual weapon reload, is almost mandatory. At higher levels (L7+) you can use a retrieval belt, but I don't think it is as easy unless you're using regalia/weapon implements, which isn't necessarily ideal for most thaumaturges.

You run into a similar issue with non-gunslinger classes since only the gunslinger can snag it dual weapon reload at L1, but everyone else has to dip into another class for it or pick it up at L6 in the archetype. Even if I wanted to say, be a champion with two of these things and utilize draconic barrage, I'm going to struggle to use two of these things until higher levels when I get reload feat support.

The only other class with really good built in damage riders/reload support is the ranger (i.e., precision/gravity weapon, running reload, the remaster crossbow hide+reload).

This archetype is going to be a fun nut to crack.

IMH, the idea is to just magdump on the first round and swap to another weapon(or another crescent to magdump for two rounds). Doesn't need to be an actual Weapon implement, just a normal weapon. Could even have a finesse unarmed attack so you don't need to bother with switching to melee once it's out.

So what does a Commander Archetype get?

Ded gives you a 2 learned, 1 prepared folio and the banner without the buffs. Level 4(that can be relearned at 8th) to increase it by 2 learned and 1 prepared. Only up to expert tactics

Will upgrade

Can increase commander DC and Warfare lore at 12 and 18.

bigger problem with slip and sizzle are the trip part need to succeed

slowed 1 can be counter by any type of quicken

Or already being slowed

Here's a fun idea; You were supposed to be a prophesied hero/villain, but since prophecy is broken you weren't just born normally, you were born with a hero/villain shaped hole in your fate, a vacuum of destiny.

I'd use the approach of a personal blessing from a god, like in the event of Wrath of the Righteous. Think of it as a deluxe level Champion or Oracle. You can also probably call it a freak over-injection of otherworldly energies in what would be a geniekin or a nephilim, such that your lineage is tied to a particularly potent entity.

I can see Exemplar as like a Martial equivalent of a witch, where they're like... laundering divine agents.

My idea is that if you get a Companion through a class feature/subclass then it should scale on your own without feats(+ rejigger the numbers a bit to make it scale a tad better, no idea why companions only get up to trained without the specifics specialization) and then replace those feats with some tiered bonus system like the one on Inventor.

As someone that has played Druid for a short whilel, Like 4-8, I never really found Druid all that interesting to think or play about--I'm very negative on spellcasters on a baseline but I did appreciate the class for actually having some interesting Feats even if most of them are tied to Untamed. It wasn't bad or anything outside of

I kinda do want the Druid to have a more explicit gimmick to their class actually, I'm a mechanics then aesthetics guy and there's just not any mechanics to make it appealing. Like I'm a big fan of oscillating wave even if it isn't the *best* Conscious mind for Psychic just from it giving off-tradition spells and the heat/cold damage swap.

There's nothing wrong with Druid but there's also nothing really wow about since most things it has is easily gotten through feat investment. Funnily enough, I think Druid is like the anti-Psychic design-wise. Semi-decent feat with a good chassis with literally no gimmicks while Psychic's budget is *all* in the gimmicks with some genuinely terrible feats

Surprising how many see Remastered Cosmos as a specifically Remastered problem when old Cosmos was also the best Mystery to have.

I personally prefer them just having 'Lives' rather than health imo. Just kinda don't like tracking health

Shields have 3-4(or even 1-2 for Buckler types) lives, if they take any amount of damage above their Hardness(or Hardness*1.5) they lose 1 'life'. Crits remove an extra 'life'

Number not final of course but still.

As someone who wanted, and did, play Oracle. I'd also add 'Divine spells just doesn't work thematically' for this class, there are terribly few fire or air/lightning spells for instance. I honestly think Oracles should just get carte blanche access to any spells with a specific tag or thematic(Fire Oracles get all fire spells, Death gets all void spells, life vitality and healing spells, etc, etc)

I think if the Curses provides something more powerful to the spellcasting it's be nice too

But also remove any curses that are like Lore Oracle. Terrible idea.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

No, you missed the point. You were trying to use modern reality in a fantasy game for weapons. You seem to want to use realism when you feel like it and discard it when it is inconvenient to your arguments.

Even something like what would it really be like to be struck by a 10 ton dragon that can fly at immense speeds. Would a 150 to 200 lb. human even be able to withstand one blow from such a creature much less the breath weapon coming from its mouth? Especially with realistic Medieval weaponry.

I'd be fine with representing that in-game. Dragons should be brown pants when glimpsed from miles off, level threats. Fighting them should take an army, defensive magic, and never come without a massive cost in lives. Even an Ogre should be something you fight with as long a spear as possible because you will not survive being hit by them.

Nah, i think Ogre should be a hard boss at low levels and decenly beatable with a few bruises at mid level

I already got Battlecry for my war/martial needs. So all I want is alternate rules ALA Unchained

Wait I missed this, but in Demiplane during the fall errate did anyone notice this?

https://discord.com/channels/1193408057129046067/1193410606636732478/133204 3908687069246

It says 'You can use 1-action Elemental Blast i place of a strike'

That... chages things quite a bit

Basically the title. I know that interposing earth and Brine Dragons Bile and Fire being a darling element had a wode array of good spells but I dunno what else to get.

I wouldn't say "selective realism" is bad for game design, because selective realism is baked into game design. You make things link up when it gives good feedback or is intuitive, and you sever it when it doesn't. And of course, you choose how detailed/crunchy/etc. you want your game to be as part of that, and what you personally think feels good. It's subjective how much realism you want, but any game that intends its mechanics to have any click or intuitivity needs some amount of simulation (or at least metaphor) to make that happen.

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I wouldn't ever argue monsters used exactly the same rules as PCs in 1E, and I feel like I've never seen anyone argue as much, either. You'd have to not be paying attention to give your PCs access to monster feats and so on; no PC should have multiattack, etc. Monsters have plenty of bespoke interactions and abilities. And PF1E literally has its own monster construction guidelines that make it clear you're on an entirely different track from PCs.

I always feel like this "but monsters were never simulationist!" argument kind of misses the point a bit, anyways. It's less that monsters are perfect models in line with PCs and everything else, and more that the player-facing aspects of monsters tend to line up more with how players already expect things to work.

===

There's no requirement simulationism not apply to fantasy settings. There are plenty of magic-has-its-own-physics types of settings you could use as guidelines, or even make use of directly. Many readers prefer such settings, even. Thinking simulationism requires simulating the actual world is a pretty narrow way of looking at.

Okay, but I don't want simulationism to matter much. If have to get a penalty to my greatsword because I"m inside a narrow tunnel I'd gladly turn my character into nothing but a bundle of stats and power with neither family nor friends nor hated enemies.

So, in this case, I don't want wizards(or anyone) to be able to make demiplanes at all. I agree that rituals are badly designed as a baseline but the creation of a demiplane should be strictly NPC or GM fiat, hell, I take 'island creation ritual' over 'make an alternate dimension' ritual to even exist.

I think it's great that Demiplane is Mythic, after all Mythic is when non-casters get to do so too.

Because n8_fi wants them to move duh.

Mechanically it can be because the old location doesn't matter anymore due to movement or burning grounds effect. So no you have two thralls in a hopefully mroe advantageous position

Also Reactive Striking a thrall sounds like a terrible decision--Reactions aren't automatic and aren't unlimited.

Thematically they want some tokens to move because they feel not to controllable as is rn.

I do agree that thrall movement shouldn't be easy though, having 8+ thrall being able to move repeatedly would be hell.

I think it's because that a non-video gamey Necromancy is a pain in the ass to balance and take up table time.

In fact I love that it's video gamey because I always think of diablo when someone says they want to make a necromancer and have that be a gameable concept.

James Jacobs wrote:

In the "Not an excuse but still important contextual information" category...

** spoiler omitted **...

** spoiler omitted **

Back on topic now, on the subject of "NPC being allowed things the player can't have", I think the real issue here isn't the notion of them having different rules at all, and more about them not following the same rules on the few subject where they are directly comparable to the PC.

Obviously, a magical monsters can have abilities the PC never could. Obviously, the great ancient lord of greed have access for far more ressources and minion than the PC, he can possess multiple artifacts, all of that is fine. But that same lord of greed is still a human, and still a wizard, so the PC come to expect that in those regard, he work with the same rule they do, so if he suddently started doing things a player wizard couldn't do if they had access to all of his ressources (like if he was spam casting "quickenned mass heal" for exemple), then it's going to break immersion.

Pathfinder 1e is very good at avoiding that, thanks to the fact that foes are built with the same rule as the PC, and that all the powers the PC can't have are almost always due to unique monster rule or specially made artifact. Pathfinder 2e, despite a few hiccups in the starting APs, and despite having entirely different "building rule" for player and NPC, was also generally very good at avoiding that. But cutting off these rituals from nonmythic caster did break immersion on that subject, because now these NPC aren't doing something the PC could if they had their ressources, they are doing something the PC can't do, no matter what, showing that...

Entirely my own personal opinion here, but no, generally I do not. I'm more weirded out that he casts heal but if he casts some other spell not in Arcana, I'd just shrug or not even notice that an Arcana caster is casting Albatross curse.

But also, think of me, guy who never cared about Create Demiplane and find DnD-based wizards obnoxious in design. I can have Decree of Banishment and turn an enemy I see into a Pariah! Now that's a positive in my book on player agency. Even without a Mythic point it still turns me into an object of terror for them.

I absolutely do not want Fighter proficiency barbs or rogues

Hmmm, Str knife fighter using two-handed feats? Using a simple knife weapon. Like they're wielding it with both hands

So both WotI classes are actually a bit of stance dancer classes--classes that can switch benefits on the fly(per-round for Exemplar but mostly per-encounter for Animist)--and one of their deal is that you can sacrifice access to a spirit for some extra boost or action

Basically losing chunks of repertoir(not slots) to gain some fun abilities.

I'd hope there'd be a light or lightning apparition, and I want some other interesting Wandering feats.

Also good chance of some form of posession/incaranating SUmmon spell augment

Overall none, got a decent enough spread as of Howl and PC2. Some more construct or insect adjacent ancestries maybe?

If performance can be both poetry and dance, then Crafting can be both blacksmithing and knitting.

I simply think that Crafting, really any skill, being designed around downtime is a mistake. Crafting should be more exloration and encounter based; spend 10 minutes once per day and you get a batch of consumables, grant a shield an extra X hardness, change a melee weapon or physical ammunition damage type's, Straight up upgrade cover or make one

I'm seeing two sides of this, and they seem to be rather mutually exclusive.

On one side, having these ranged-meta things be feats that can be taken - probably as general feats so that they are available to everyone - means that they nearly become must-pick status.

The benefit being that these aren't baked into the classes or the general rules, so the compatibility between the two systems is easier. The core rules are the same and there aren't specific general actions like Cover Fire that people have to remember are in one system but not in the other. And classes don't need things added or removed during the port process from one system to the other.

On the other side, having these ranged-meta things be either general rules or built into the class chassis as-needed means that there aren't feat taxes that nearly every character needs to take in order to feel optimized or even effective.

No i'm saying make them feats but give every starfinder 2e classes those feats.

Yeah my perspective is that Taking Cover is good so we should lean into it more by making it better.

+1 action is really, really, really good though?

I like to specialize in crafting from a flavor standpoint, but mechanically it just feels like investment for no real gain, even in PF2e. If I don't gain anything from it, make it built into the system via Activities or some such available to all.

I also agree with the sentiment posted in here that Crafting as a skill on its own doesn't fit Starfinder (and frankly, it never fit pf2e either. too many types of things can be crafted, all covered by one skill?).

Crafting/Engineering should, at the very least, be treated like they treat Lore now to some extent: allowing specialization, adding some sort of benefit that isn't negligible.

Like, what if I wanna make a character be a gunsmith specifically, with access to unique mods or cool abilities? That can't even really be accomplished by *Inventor* right now, let alone Crafting. Crafting is incredibly hollow and boring.

Wrestlers aren't great climber, and swimming isn't a prerequisite for deadlifting.

Just like performance meaning you can sing and dance and act and make a great speech I'd prefer if Crafting just does away with any specialization--yes you're blacksmith /can/ knit and brew alchemical elixers and cut magical gems without any skill feats.

Still don't like it, I'm not thinking about the optimal condition where it's on a smartly designed map and encounter but more on 'random collection of stuff that can be used with cover'

It's like how MAP is meant to discourage always attacking, but taking defensive cover is an action that plenty of people already do not like to do. And I'm still kinda weirded out if someone pushes a character away from cover then they won't be able to get flanked, and if they're able to be flanked than Taking Cover an unnecessarily high risk.

ALso it works weird with non-directional cover benefit like from being prone or tower shields. I'd rather just make Taking Cover more dynamic for everyone invlved, that's why I suggested making it also half-stride.

Disagree with Cover exposure, since that could easily lead to 'better to not take cover ever' thinking. Hell it does weird thing with forced movement--pulling someone(literally) out of cover might lead to them being harder to hit

Yeah I always homebrew it so that crafting any kind of item doesn't need a feat. And anyone can get like 2-4 formulas

but I'm also someone that doesn't like the idea of Crafting's normal niche to be 'walking shop'.

if I had the time and will I'd prefer if Crafting was more of a in-combat built stuff and in-exploration macguyvering and reshaping. Like maybe you can spend 1a to gain resistance to a specific phys damage type until you're hit by that damage, make cover anywhere, change a weapon's damage type to another phys damage type, etc, etc.

That's why I said it's a feat that every starfinder 2e class gets.

I don't really care for 'what makes sense' really, I'm sympathetic with the desire for compatibility but my main reasoning is simply that having 'mobile take cover' be baseline is that it makes ranged combats more dynamic instead of rn where it feels like once you're in it you stay in it for a majority of the time and since there isn't a lot of baseline thing that a SF2 character gets unlike a PF2 character in melee with AThletic actions, feints, flanking, etc.

Yeah I just fundamentally disagree that everything should be interchangeable. I think a lot of thing 'should' be interchangeable between them but not everything.

Or they can make hacky 'same actions but actually just straight up better' like if they make the half-stride+cover be a disttinct action from Take Cover but it's literally just Take Cover but better if too much baseline changes is unrealistic.

I still want ways to ranged flank be something that's spreadout and baseline for characters. Hell, make it a class feature to every single Starfinder class.

it's not my favourite way to do it, but at least it's something to make ranged more fun that doesn't need everyone to take feats.

Oh here's a fun idea

Make it an action: 1A, aim at someone, if they make a move, manipulate or range attack until the start of your next turn blabla standard AoO wording.

Maybe not necessarily numbers but I think there should be changes to certain base actions and rules to make playing ranged something more dynamic, instead of forcing ranged-ness with just class features, feats, and equipment.

For instance, Take Cover coming baseline with a half-speed stride so that there's more movement and helps melee still be able to get in range but still having survivability,

Make some sort of 'ranged flanking' possible. Maybe shooting someone--hit or miss--not in standard/light cover 'primes' them where their off-guard against the next ranged strike by someone else or by taking a move action that isn't Stand. Maybe have Area Attack 'prime' too and melee or tanky classes have ways to ignore it like Rogue or Barb did.

Okay but what's so wrong with Giving solarians low level feat access to fight, or just have it be a class feature?

What's wrong with having the melee class of SF to have better mobility baseline than Operators and Soldiers?

Besides there is a Bioaugmentation for wings! Enjoy.

More reason to give Shirren low level flight then!