Onkonk's page

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There are some work arounds like Ricochet Stance from Fighter, Fane's Fourbiere (though this one is another can of worms) for Rogue and Swashbuckler.

Though there is a huge book of equipment coming soon, maybe they'll have a "shuriken pouch" you can inscribe in that one.

CorvusMask wrote:
Sidenote: What is the terra-cotta explorer picture for? I can't remember any mention of explorer statues in the adventure

In the alternative track, one of the encounters is replaced with that.

Cowwizard wrote:
This is my first subscription, so this may be an obvious question. I notice that in two separate areas it says “Preorder expected mid July” and “Preorder expected approximately July 27th” which one is accurate? Or does one talking about the free PDF and the other talking about the physical copy?

Mid July is when they start shipping preorders/subscriptions and July 27th is the date it is available in stores and on the site, also when the PDF is available.

This is only my understanding of it and I could be wrong :)

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Here you go

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Captain Morgan wrote:
Onkonk wrote:
I also did compare Phantasmal Killer (8th) with Scare to Death, Phantasmal Killer does 96 avg damage vs a -3 enemy (moderate saves). So Scare to Death before the nerf is as good as a spell of the highest level that fills the same niche while also being a single action that costs no resources.

While technically true, I'll point out that comparing a feat you get at 15th to a spell you get at 7tb isn't a fair comparison. Heightened spells are worse than on level counterparts as your high level spell selection matters more, much like your high level feats.

By the next level in this comparison you get Weird which just blows Phantasmal Killer away. More single target damage, and let's you target all enemies within 120 feet. Heck, even by now you could be casting Phantasmal Calamity. It doesn't technically kill the target but it might as well. Stunned for a minute on a secondary save, and no incapacitation. You don't get frightened, but you get better single target damage and also do it AoE.

Not saying Scare to Death shouldn't have been nerfed or whatever, just saying it isn't as crazy when you compare it to true high level spells. And in practice the best StD users are usually casters, so for all you're improving the relative power of spells you're also making sorcerers, oracles, and bards feel weaker overall.

Of note, Phantasmal Calamity allows you to make a save every turn.

And yeah, it is true that a 4th level spell is a bit worse when upcasted but you also have stuff like Finger of Death (84 avg dmg).

I also think there are better spells than these (stuff like upcasted Slow or Paralyze are super good), but I still don't think the 1 action, resourceless feature should be comparable to unbuffable, very limited resource 2 action ability regardless.

It is true charisma casters are best at using it, but I think the game is definitely worse if the neutral spam action available to everyone is better than using your limited unique features like spells.

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I also did compare Phantasmal Killer (8th) with Scare to Death, Phantasmal Killer does 96 avg damage vs a -3 enemy (moderate saves). So Scare to Death before the nerf is as good as a spell of the highest level that fills the same niche while also being a single action that costs no resources.

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Another nerf I would accept would be to make it a flourish, or perhaps two actions.

The ridiculousness for me was when people used it 3 times in a row and just wipes out several enemies.

A spellcaster (DC38) with an 8th level fireball does 60 avg damage to the creature used in the example. Scare To Death did 94 avg damage (and also caused fleeing or frightened when it fails) when Charisma is your off-stat. This is also without any sort of buffs like Heroism.

If a -3 enemy crit fails vs a damage spell it loses less than 50% HP while vs scare to death they had an 85% chance of just instantly die.

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Cori Marie wrote:
Where does it say you can't apply runes?

Shields are explicitly not weapons and you can't put runes on them. The shield boss and spikes are attached weapons and the augmentation in grand bazaar say you can put runes on them.

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I meant Castrovel, my bad. The names occasionally gets mixed up for me ^^

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Yes, I'm a little confused myself what this adventure is going to be. The name Gatewalkers and the mention of Ravounel seems like you'll be travelling a lot to strange locales, but it is also advertised as a paranormal mystery.

It's a long while left and I'm sure the other volumes will shine a light on what vibe this will go for!

Nitro~Nina wrote:
Onkonk wrote:

What type of damage is the splash damage from the Scatter trait? Also does it deal damage if you miss?

Splash is only defined really in the splash trait so it can be hard to tell how it is supposed to work outside of it.


Scatter wrote:
On a hit, the primary target of attacks with a scatter weapon take the listed damage, and the target and all other creatures within the listed radius around it take 1 point of splash damage per weapon damage die.
Unlike most splash damage, this specifically requires a hit to happen.

My conundrum is this:

Let's take an arbitrary bomb, alchemist's fire, it deals 1d8 damage, 1 persistent damage and 1 splash damage. This is dealt with a Strike, where on Success you deal the damage and on Critical Success you double the damage. So here we already have a "on hit, deal splash damage" in a sense. This is overridden by the Splash trait which says

If an attack with a splash weapon fails, succeeds, or critically succeeds, all creatures within 5 feet of the target (including the target) take the listed splash damage. On a failure (but not a critical failure), the target of the attack still takes the splash damage. Add splash damage together with the initial damage against the target before applying the target’s weaknesses or resistances. You don’t multiply splash damage on a critical hit.

However splash damage is not mentioned anywhere in the rules except for this trait so if we are not supposed to use this trait for Scatter then what does splash damage even do? Does it double on a crit? Is it combined with the damage before weaknesses or resistances?

What type of damage is the splash damage from the Scatter trait? Also does it deal damage if you miss?

Splash is only defined really in the splash trait so it can be hard to tell how it is supposed to work outside of it.

If you are using lump sum you can buy items above your level.

You can DM in any capacity you wish, here on the forums, my discord Kjell#1064 or my reddit /u/TheKjell.

You are allowed to discuss here! :)

Dorian 'Grey' wrote:

This is quite intriguing....

Do I need to recruit other players as team members, write up my own 4 level 16 team, or are we forming companies here?

My wish is that teams are recruited of mostly individual players to enforce the feeling of it being a team-based tournament, at least 2 players per team. Though as mentioned before I don't really have the capacity to check and enforce this so see it as what I would think is cool.

You can recruit players in any manner you wish, seems to be 2 other people in this thread alone that maybe want to team up? If you have friends you'd like to play with that is also fine.

The more teams that join the more fun this will be I think! :D

Right now there are three teams that have signed up with another team showing interest.

So either way I think it will be fine as I'm pretty sure we'll be at least 4 and I don't think more than 8 will sign up.

Reckless wrote:

Anyone interested in signing up with a level 18 partner? Anyone groups of three 16th level players need a fourth? Any single person out there wanting/willing to split a team of 16th level characters (two each) that could be fun too, right? See any problem with people partnering up to do that, Onkonk?

This is fine, I also want to mention some stuff I answered else where.

You can use relics as long as you pay the cost and follow the minimum level in the relic rules.

Consumables are gone forever when used but something like a wand with a 1/day ability is restored between matches.

You can choose either lump sum or items by level, if you do items by level I would very much appreciate a breakdown however.

At the moment I do have teams that consist of players joining together.

I guess there is nothing that stops anyone from controlling a team all by themselves (and I can't really verify this anyways) I think it is more fun for it to be individual persons.

I'm currently running a Fists of the Ruby Phoenix game privately and just thought to myself, wouldn't it be cool if all teams were players?

I started to think about the idea a lot (at first I considered doing 32 teams and the pre-qualifier but I talked myself out of it for the sheer logistic challenge) and was convinced to do it!

How will it work?

This game will be running async, which means the games will be up all the time and people will take their turn when they have time (however please try to make sure you can participate at least once per day) so it will mean that it might not be a very fast paced game. This is also for logistic reasons (scheduling is hard enough with a group of 5 people, imagine 20+) and will be hosted on a 24/7 uptime foundry server and will also make use of Discord.

There will be 8 teams (might do less if we don't get enough people) participating in a double elimination tournament, the final will be a best-of-3 where the winning team has a one game lead. The game will feature different kind of arenas to spice things up a little.

What is allowed?

There will be three eligible team formats to make things interesting:

Eight level 14 characters.
Four level 16 characters.
Two level 18 characters.
According to encounter budgeting these are are all "extreme challenges" to each other so should add a fun tactical twist to it all.

Only official paizo content will be allowed, no free archetype, all ancestries will be allowed, uncommon options will be allowed.

Banned content:

Heaven's Thunder
Pin to the Spot
Sixth Pillar Mastery (only problematic in a few cases but I don't want to be closing those holes as they show up)
Abomination Domain
Martials multiclassing into Wild Shape
Additionally I reserve the right to close any loopholes, exploits, etc. I discover at a later point.

Your starting equipment will use Treasure for New Characters as if you were one level higher, e.g. a level 16 character will recieve gear as if they started at level 17.

Rule changes, additions and notes

Incapacitation and similar effects will always treat a player character and their companions as higher level than you.
You'll have a single hero point per match.
For the purpose of the Gladiator archetype and similar effects, these matches are spectated.
Recall Knowledge is not worth the hassle of trying to figure out how to adjudicate it for this.
There are a couple of ambiguous rules in PF2 that I will have to make a ruling on. It will be an exercise in futility to try to counter them all before it starts so sometimes I will have to make ruling as we go.

Special Rules

A contestant who yields or fails to act for a count of three (3 rounds) shall be removed from the field of battle as quickly as possible and is no longer a contestant in that match.
You can cast effects and buffs on yourself before the game if they have a duration of at least 5 mins.
All characters must start each game on the ground and detected.
All games will be public for the contestants, due to using foundry I'm not sure how I would allow others to spectate.
All characters are fully revived and restored between games.

So how do I sign up?

I will not be coordinating teams but you can organize yourself in this comment section if you'd like. Once you have a full team with a team name and legal characters (pathbuilder is a quick and easy way to build and allow me to verify them) message me and I'll sign you up.

If you have any questions about this or maybe I missed something, just let me know!

I'm looking for players for a PbP-game I'm hosting on foundry/discord and I was wondering if it is ok to make a post on the recruitment board or if it has to be hosted on the forums.

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Yeah, obviously we are all playing a game so the GM has to push the party through the portal but I think the AP is much weaker for it.

I think it would have been much better if you are given a clear reason for what you are doing rather than simply indulging the story.

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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Onkonk wrote:

I ran Age of Ashes for three books and my biggest issue there is not the difficulty (easy for me to adjust) but more the general lack of purpose. A general sentiment through many books were "why are we doing this?" and it really depends on your players being very natural explorers and wanting to do things just because it is a shiny portal.

The second book gives motivation in the sense of "don't let those things come through again we just got this place".

The third book actively has npcs drag PCs into wanting to defend their town/location as someone comes to them as a threat.

For the second book, the portal is broken as you start and is entirely non-functional. The players can just ignore it and nothing will happen to them instead of repairing it. The dragon living inside it also is a motivation to just destroy the portals instead of opening them.

The Scarlet Triad guy showing up at the start of book 3 has nothing to do with the portal, he just took the roads. There is no reason to go through the portal at all in book 3 as there is zero indication that it will lead to them. The Scarlet Triad don't even know where the portal is and have no key for it.

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I ran Age of Ashes for three books and my biggest issue there is not the difficulty (easy for me to adjust) but more the general lack of purpose. A general sentiment through many books were "why are we doing this?" and it really depends on your players being very natural explorers and wanting to do things just because it is a shiny portal.

I've run a little Strength of Thousands and it has been very fun but the campaign has been plagued by hiatuses :(

I've run a lot of Fists of the Ruby Phoenix and I love it, it just oozes cool and really leans into making combat a cinematic experience of sorts which I rarely see other pre-written content nail down. Also has a lot of lovable and hatable NPCs though like a lot of pre-written content the GM will have to make some work to get that RP/encounter balance that fits your group the best.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like one of the problems with a "let's go beat up Treerazer" AP is that the tools to make PCs stand a chance in that fight (something like Mythic) don't exist yet.

Treerazer, as a level 25 monster, is a very hard fight for 20th level characters (24 is "an extreme challenge solo boss" for a party of 4 level 20 adventurers), one that most parties will not survive. In the AP you're kind of supposed to win. I think the highest level enemy we've seen in an AP was level 24, and that was in Ruby Phoenix which had a high level of optimization since you didn't need to have a playable character for the first ten levels.

Treerazer is very beatable for a level 20 party. It has very exploitable weaknesses. The weakness to good and cold iron makes it so it has defenses like paper.

A single enemy is a much lower threat to a level 20 party than at lower levels.

The bonuses and penalties you can stack up are crazy at this point (heroism +2 or +3), aid (+4), flanking (+2), status debuff (+1-3).

Of course an unexpecting, uncoordinated group is probably gonna struggle a lot but I think if you buff the hell out of a group you'll run the risk of the boss turning out to be a joke as well.

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SuperBidi wrote:
Errenor wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

In the rules about the Splash trait, you have this line:

Yeah, yeah, an example of one type of items and nowhere else in the whole book, not one mention. I remember. And it is in examples they have less checking it seems.

Also, while we're at it, 'persistent damage' is not even a name of a condition, it's a name of a group of conditions, and very clearly not a damage from the standard calculation.

It's all we have.

But I like this rule. I don't see why persistent damage shouldn't be multiplied on a critical hit. It's rarely high damage, and very often on abilities that are quite weak (Bombs, Swashbuckler Finisher). The main strength of Persistent damage is to trigger weaknesses and this rule don't affect the damage much in that case.

There is also Lingering Flames

"When you cast fireball, you can modify its effects, decreasing the base damage to 5d6 and causing it to deal 2 persistent fire damage to creatures that fail their save, doubled as normal on a critical failure."

With basic save and strike using similar language, i.e. you double the damage listed.

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There is the item fortunately that gives you a bonus for all alchemical bombs.

In the PaizoCon discord this was actually asked:

“Devil eidolon some day? Whole book of devilry some day?”

Logan Bonner

Possibly. Daemons/Demons/Devils try to run in packs, which makes it tough to do a book on any one set of them. They could each carry a book, but then that means making three books (making it hard to fit them in the schedule or sell enough copies) OR cramming them all into one (making it hard to be comprehensive).

I think you can inspiration from the influence subsystem.

Charisma skills always work but depending on the NPC you can have Arcana, Religion or something else if it pertains to the discussion or their personality.

You can also let people contribute with Perception to read the character to help yourself and others do better.

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But that is not my assumption, that is based on your assumption of how it works.

Do you think the current discount is reducing the amount of money the team gets? If so why do you think the discount is in place?

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Rysky wrote:
Pretty sure the the agreement works out for the products sold, since again they have don’t have a breakdown of each piece for pricing. Getting angry and thinking they need to be paid less isn’t really helping matter.

But you're also making an assumption on how it works, you don't have more insider information either. And you're using your assumption to say that people complaining are being unreasonable because they have a different assumption.

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Rysky wrote:

... you get a discount if you already have the product it's attached to.

You pay full price for it if you don't.

So unless they have a breakdown of the pricing on their site, yes, you are paying for the work, and the discount is through a deal with Paizo, not themselves cutting off the price just because.

So Paizo is giving the Foundry team money as if they sold a 60USD product even if they bought with the discount and are just generously donating their sales of the PDFs to them?

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Cori Marie wrote:
But this product is not the Adventure Paths you've already bought. This is a new product, one into which likely hundreds of hours of work went into from the Foundry team. That's what you're paying for is that work, not the Adventure Path. Nobody is stopping you from using PDF to Foundry with your existing AP pdfs. That option still works. If you want the added bonuses of the Foundry module you can pay the people that put in the hours of work to develop it.

But you're actually not paying for that work, less than half the price is for that work. The foundry module costs 21 USD but you are forced to buy the 39 USD PDF as well. There is no one (from what I can tell) that has any issue paying for the work of the foundry team. It is paying twice for the Abomination Vault PDF that peeves people.

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Another example is spontaneous casters having to add Fireball (H+1) in their repertoire as a 4th level spell in order to cast it.

I def wish if the scaling gets lowered they would add something nice to it like Dazzled on failed save. That would give it a niche instead of just being bad damage.

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Zombie (or ghoul) Investigator

I'm imaging an old war hero, he was handsome, charming (if not arrogant), popular and skilled in combat until he got injured in combat by a zombie and was unable to fight anymore.

His self-worth was in his abilities and with his body deteriorating and being in constant pain he became very bitter and shunned people away which caused him to become even more hateful of the living.

Eventually he passed and rose again, he managed to find himself and Geb, doing odd tasks of the inquisitorial nature and eventually became a troubleshooter. Who cares about the living anyways.

While eating, it stops the body from deteriorating and he feels as new again.

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For me it's that equipment can get a bit same-y across characters as the amount of options at any given level is not always that many so having a big book like this can really make any individual character flourish in their unique way.

Having a bunch of more specific magic weapons with unique abilities can really go a long way to increase the coolness factor of a character.

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Super fun AP (running it myself) that is not ashamed at all what vibe it goes for, insanely cool fights and set pieces as well.

Really happy to see this getting a collection!

Rysky wrote:

Why? Is this instance different than the other times?

You bought books/pdfs A, B, and C. This discount is if you bought pdf D.

The issue is that the discount is offered so that you don't have to buy the same product twice, in this case the AV AP. There is such a small difference between A, B, C vs D that if you want the foundry version you'll have to throw 39 USD in the trash as the majority of the price goes to buying a product you in essence already owns.

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All Paizo products are announced at least 8 months in advance on the webstore so I do think they rather want to announce it at the con rather than quitely publish it on the webstore.

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If it is going to be a 3 volume AP? It is a good bet for sure given the structure of the latest two years though.

I'd love another 11-20 one, high level play is where I think the system shines so having something I could run when my Ruby Phoenix game is done would be the dream.

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It's actually quite decent for Gunslingers that use a lot of misfire actions.

You can spam those and if you ever misfire you can just draw a new gun instead of having to clear it.

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Dancing Wind wrote:
Aaron Shanks wrote:


Let's not make any additional work for the CS team. If there are any issues with your order, please reach out to our CS team for assistance. If the system works, then there is no need to email them.

If the system works there is no need to email them????

That IS the system. How else do people "reach out to our CS team for assistance"?

I'm pretty sure he means that there is no need to contact CS just to make sure everything is alright when you can just contact them when something is wrong.

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breithauptclan wrote:

Come to the same basic conclusion.

Well, I think the picture painted was pretty different given that the original quote was "Battle Medicine alone will (even including the extra stride to get next to the target) be about equivalent to a 2-action Heal spell" and the numbers shown was about twice as big.

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breithauptclan wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Battle Medicine alone will (even including the extra stride to get next to the target) be about equivalent to a 2-action Heal spell - on each character 1/day. Cleric's Divine Font has trouble keeping up with that (assuming that you keep up with your skill training to get access to the scaling Treat Wounds).

To be clear, and to put some numbers behind that statement: Expected value of healing comparing character level (not spell level) to damage healed. Also keeping it simple and not worrying about Medicine skill failures, critical failures, or critical successes.

Treat Wounds
1: trained: DC 15: 2d8 => 9
3: expert: DC 20: 2d8+10 => 19
7: master: DC 30: 2d8+30 => 39
15: legend: DC 40: 2d8+50 => 59

Max level 2-action Heal
1: 1d8+8 => 4.5+8 => 12.5
3: 2d8+16 => 8+16 => 24
5: 3d8+24 => 12.5+24 => 36.5
7: 4d8+32 => 16+32 => 48
9: 5d8+40 => 20.5+40 => 60.5
11: 6d8+48 => 25+48 => 73
15: 7d8+56 => 31.5+56 => 87.5

Max level 2-action Heal is generally better, but Treat Wounds/Battle Medicine is nothing to scoff at. 1-action Heal is generally less than Treat Wounds, and 3-action Heal is also less per character although it can affect the entire party at once.

I think that by keeping it simple you are omitting a lot of context, accounting for failures and such changes the result drastically

Assuming a start with 14 wisdom and getting items and skill increases and always use the optimal DC it looks like this:

1 (DC15, +5 modifier): 5.175
3 (DC20, +10 modifier): 10.675
7 (DC20 (better to use the lower dc here), +17 modifier): 20.475
15: (DC30, +31 modifier): 42.45

So it's about between 41-48% of a 2A Heal and about 115-120% of a 1A Heal.

I do think that it goes against the theme and purpose of conflux spells as this does double down on making a big spellstrike when they are supposed to be more about having a powerful off-turn.

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While no one cries for the bard it would be great to be able to lower my wisdom (losiing perception and those skills) for intelligence so one could focus on Occultism and Bardic Lore without destroying your defenses.

That would not try to be a "do-it-all" build as even without saving throws wisdom would be a generally more useful stat than intelligence in my opinion.

The first book says this at the end of it:

OoA1 wrote:

If you and your players are up for it, consider using the time between this adventure and the next to conduct a few side quests or minor missions around town before Dunsmith returns with her next lead.
Characters can also use the time until the next adventure to perform downtime activities or pursue their own private agendas throughout Alkenstar. [...] When the party has finished their individual tasks or your players seem ready to proceed with the story, the characters can continue their work for the grand duchess in the next Pathfinder Adventure Path volume, “Cradle of Quartz.”
As for now, the characters have a rare moment to rest before the next crisis. As Dunsmith suggested, they might as well sit back, take it easy, and enjoy the show.

So there is some downtime available for certain.

Yes, I do question the implementation of it myself (intelligence unchanged?) but I did found it interesting that they are at least aware of the asymmetrical importance of certain stats.

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One thing I did notice that I found interesting is that out of Paizo's mouth themselves:

GMG, Alternative Scores wrote:
The classic ability scores aren't of equal value in the rules. Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom tend to be more important unless a character requires a particular ability score from among the other three for a specific purpose.


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