Laori Vaus

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Organized Play Member. 118 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Organized Play characters.


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ROBOT DRAGONS!

Low-key hope there's kobolds in there too...We've been waiting so long...


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Will there be Bestiary cards for this product?

Sure enough.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

The Genie Bloodline is definitely gonna be Arcane given the fact that actual genies have Arcane casting and based on some stuff from Mark Seifter about how the Elemental Planes are raw Material Essence, and thus involve both Primal and Arcane magic.

I agree that Shadow will probably be Occult. And I think that, given the disparity in Bloodlines at the moment, that there's good odds of another Primal Bloodline as well.

Perhaps it might be something like Verdant? (Which incidentally enough was in the 1e APG as well.)


On the other hand, none of the other NPCs in the gallery have a name that is that of a class or class path - no ruffians, no rangers, no warpriests, no wizards.
So if the APG CE champion path is called that, it will cause confusion (however little) between that and the NPC type, which I don't think Paizo would want.

So I wouldn't worry, personally.

...EDIT: Well okay immediately after saying that I spotted a ruffian on the list. Still, most of the names seem to avoid trying to correlate with what already exists for PC class/class path names.


Joana wrote:

My shipping email came through last night. Was the warehouse really working on a Saturday night? :D

The-Magic-Sword wrote:
...what is everyone's favorite aspect of it?
I love the art of gestalt dual-classed Seoni. What is she, a sorcerer/champion?

Looks like a sorcerer/cleric, what with the Pharasma insignia (yes, there can technically be redeemers of Pharasma so it might be that, but it gives a more of a warpriest vibe to me).


You probably could homebrew an "Additional Magic Hack" feat, since these sort of class features like magic hacks and mechanic tricks are, per Owen K.C. Stevens himself, budgeted on the same power level as feats.

But by RAW there is nothing, no.


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In general there's a bit of a missing niche for a playable *arcane* construct - we have androids and SROs for technological ones, but nothing on the magical side of things.


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Well, even without full hardcovers, you still have various monsters on a monthly basis in the back of Adventure Path issues.


I always imagine it like the Void from Warframe.


To me, what really helps is taking some classic fantasy adventure concept and putting a sci-fi spin on it, or conversely, taking a standard sci-fi adventure concept and sprucing it up with some distinctly fantasy elements.
(Though your preference for the proportions of the two may vary, as I happen to really love and lean into Starfinder's particular science fantasy mix, but I understand some people prefer to downplay some of those in their own games.)

For instance, I considered running a "fighting back a diabolic invasion, XCOM-style" campaign in D&D, before realizing how much-better suited Starfinder would be for it, especially once infused with the trappings and ideas that Starfinder has to offer that would be really janky to do in a normal high fantasy world.

Sure, fighting some bearded devils as part of a crusade is fun, but you know what's even more fun? Fighting bearded devils with laser rifles, as part of a space crusade!

But really, it's often that I just find myself watching some thing, or playing some game, or even listening to some music, and trying to imagine what running something like that would be like within Starfinder, substituting specific worldbuilding elements for the closest SF equivalents (making them up or adjusting where necessary, or taking advantage of adjacent lore bits in Starfinder if they're compelling enough, which to me they often are)


Per John Compton's request, I shall revive this thread.

So I mentioned this in passing in the opening post, but I want to expand upon it a bit more - Starfinder-specific mech designs!

Much like with starships, it would be amazing to see mechs that tap into Starfinder's existing aesthetics and design language, with different mech manufacturers sporting different styles of mechs that harken back to different styles in pre-existing mecha fiction.

Consider these examples:
- Veskarium mechs that resemble clunky-and-gritty mechs (a'la Battletech or VOTOMS), the true warmachines with WW2-esque aesthetics (and on a mechanical level, probably bearing the highest kinetic firepower and armor, but not much else).

- Stewards' slightly sleeker blue mechs, featuring more lasers and fancy tech than those made by the Veskarium, used more for peacekeeping than full-on warfare (thus probably also smaller on average than the vesk-made stuff).

- Hellknights, Knights of Golarion and other knightly factions would obviously feature mechs that resemble oversized suits of knight armor (and the "superhero" style of mechs) and plenty of magitech (and just pure magic, really).
Hellknight mechs specifically could even take inspiration from the designs of some larger devils like barbazus or pit fiends, and similarly KoG's mechs could be made in the image of celestials such as archons.

- Xenowarden mechs - you wouldn't think that Xenowardens would manufacture (or rather, grow) mechs, and indeed many Xenowarden mechs might not even look like mechs until activated, disguised as trees or other large plants in the environment, more sentient than most other types of mechs, almost like piloted treants.

- Eoxian mechs that look like oversized corpses, powered by necromancy and outfitted with more bones and rotting bodyparts than you can count? Yes please.

- Ramshackle space pirate/Cult of the Devourer/ysoki mechs that barely hold together, intimidating equally because of their firepower, appearance, and likelihood of exploding? Why not!

- Plain weird Dominion of the Black/cultist mechs that defy understanding of their functioning and origin to all but their pilots?

And that's probably just scratching the surface - Pathfinder Society explorer-mechs, Abadar-blessed AbadarCorp mechs, strange biological barathu mechs, ancient Kasathan mechs, darkness-infused drow mechs? There's room for all this and more!


I think an underappreciated (or at least, undermentioned) source of inspiration would be music, either independent or as soundtracks from movies or video games.

The entire discography of Ozric Tentacles
Judas Priest (for me it's been mostly Nostradamus, Firepower and Painkiller, with a mix of songs from other albums)
Gloryhammer (Space 1992: Rise of the Chaos Wizards and Tales from Beyond the Galactic Terrorvortex are amazing albums)
Muse (Knights of Cydonia and Supermassive Blackhole are pretty great songs)

For video games, I happen to have a lot of overlap between what's already mentioned in the core rulebook (Doom, Destiny, Borderlands, Halo, Starcraft, Stellaris, X-COM), with some extra bits of my own - mostly indie games, though.

Awesomenauts (miss playing that game)
Cortex Command
FTL: Faster than Light
Deep Rock Galactic (you could drop in the game's whole premise directly into Starfinder with basically no changes)
Heat Signature
Might & Magic (I believe this was even called out as an inspiration for Numeria in Pathfinder)
The Last Federation
Natural Selection 2
PlanetSide 2
Risk of Rain
Starbound
Warframe

And there's also some cartoon shows and animated movies, too:
Ben 10 (the original, Alien Force and Ultimate Alien primarily)
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
Samurai Jack
Teen Titans
Generator Rex
Duck Dodgers
Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars
Treasure Planet
The Mandalorian (well okay this one is not animated but)
And I'm not sure if Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit counts but...


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Plus many mecha properties out there have mechs that require more than one crew member (Pacific Rim for instance, which is namedropped in the CRB and was mentioned by Paizo on various occasions), which is not something you can really do with power armor as-is either.


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All of that was already available on the Paizo APG product page, which admittedly went up a few weeks ago with little fanfare.


Constitution, for reasons that others have mentioned, but also perhaps Wisdom, for the whole "good at noticing patterns, to a fault" part of ours.

No clue as for the flaw, however.


It could have been something like Faith or Belief instead.
Alas, deities are kind of the assumed default even if nondeific stuff is getting a bit more spotlight now.


Well, the text mentions them being in the Vast, and with the next book being Near Space...Yeah, doubt it, unless we make enough noise at Paizo to give them a more fleshed out writeup somewhere.


An earlier example, funnily enough involving Lost Omens Gods & Magic itself, is that in...I believe issue #4 of Age of Ashes, in the backmatter you had some content (alternate domain and associated focus spells) that weren't possible to actually take (and for most of us, still aren't as of the time of writing).


So one of the great things about Starfinder IMO that makes it stand out in the sci-fi crowd is the strong integration of fantasy elements - widespread magic, active gods (or really, religion in general, given how some science fiction seems to go down the route of "we'll outgrow such superstitions in the future!), other planes of existence, the various magical classes and species...

...And yet there isn't really a book dedicated to the topic, which seems like a pretty big gap in the current Starfinder sourcebook roster. We have Armory and Starship Operations Manual covering the (mostly) technological side of things, maybe it's time for magic to be in the spotlight?

And so much could be done with a book like that!
- More detailed writeups on gods, other faiths and philosophies in the Pact Worlds and beyond
- The role of magic in the far-flung future
- Stuff pertaining to the magic-adjacent classes like mystic, technomancer, solarian and witchwarper
- Maybe even something on the Great Beyond? Surely the planes aren't the same now as they were back in the pre-Gap days.
- And of course, a plethora of magical player options - spells, magic and hybrid items, magical class options (particularly for, but not exclusively, the spellcasters), the sorts.

This is absolutely not at all inspired by the fact that Lost Omens Gods & Magic is coming out on the Pathfinder 2e side of things soon, no, why would you suggest such a thing?

With how far in advance Paizo works, I'm almost certain something like this has at least been on the table for a while, but I want it to be more publicly known that there's non-zero demand for this, and also I'm curious to see what specific things others would want to see in a book like that.


Xenocrat wrote:
Need a Segway for 5' corridors and doors.

Or a... hoverboard. Seriously, how come we not have those yet?

Like an actual "floating skateboard with thrusters" a'la Back to the Future, not that "boneless segway" thing we have in the real world nowadays.
(Bonus points if there's rules for performing tricks via Acrobatics checks.)


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I assume it's a similar sort of logic that D&D 5e uses.

5e PHB, pg. 163 wrote:


Without the full training that a beginning character receives, you must be a quick study in your new class, having a natural aptitude that is reflected by higher-than-average ability scores.


CrystalSeas wrote:


And, of the 24 First Edition Adventure Paths, none have pocket editions produced by Paizo.

[Nerd voice] Well, actually...

(Granted, neither of those is out yet, but still.)

That aside, like others said, Paizo will eventually consider the combination of CRB, GMG, Bestiary and APG (not sure about Bestiary 2, but also maybe?) the "core books that they'll assume to be available at every table", but even then you can get all of the rules content from those freely online from the SRD like Archives of Nethys.


Nym Moondown wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
On an adjacent note, The Four Pilots of the Apocalypse?

Good idea!

Maybe a little reworked, for example:

- Death -> Decay (in the sense of matter dosgregation, for the universe expansion)

- Pestilence -> Radiation

- Famine -> Exhaustion (of energy)

- War -> War?

Death could be Entropy, perhaps.

(Could have cool tie-ins with the vanguard class, too.)


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On an adjacent note, The Four Pilots of the Apocalypse?


So this is almost a certainty for the future, but it would be great to get some more shields in the future.

Sure enough the ability to slap armor upgrades onto them helps somewhat, but the overall selection feels a little...small.


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Also, this feels like a similar discussion to what often goes in when people request stuff for Pathfinder 2e (which is to say, various PF1 things not yet available in PF2).

And to an extent I get that there are some iconic things that people want to see in a new iteration - many of which were either baked in, or arrived with things like COM and Alien Archives - whether that's a pure fantasy one (PF2) or a science-fantasy one (Starfinder).

However, I think it's ultimately better in the long run to focus on brand-new additions rather than constantly porting old stuff over (I mean really, you can kinda do that yourself for most things if you really need it), and allow Starfinder to really stand on its own instead of simply being "the Pathfinder in space".


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RiverMesa wrote:

While we're suggesting biotech mechanics, why not magitech ones too? It would be really fun to get a hybrid drone, or the ability to make temporary magic/hybrid items, 3.5 artificer-style.

(This is however a good illustration of an earlier point that Starfinder really isn't hurting for too many wholecloth new classes with how the existing ones are set up, which IMHO is pretty good design.)

Actually wait - spellcaster drone chassis (using the technomancer spell list).

I don't know if it'd be balanced to just naively give it straightforward 6th-level casting, but damnit, the idea sounds fun.


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While we're suggesting biotech mechanics, why not magitech ones too? It would be really fun to get a hybrid drone, or the ability to make temporary magic/hybrid items, 3.5 artificer-style.

(This is however a good illustration of an earlier point that Starfinder really isn't hurting for too many wholecloth new classes with how the existing ones are set up, which IMHO is pretty good design.)


D&D 5e might also be simple (and truth be told it is), but that didn't stop WotC from producing the seemingly-highly-popular Starter Set (or more recently, the Essentials Kit) for it.

That said I believe Paizo also said that they want to play and see "how people play the game" before they put together a beginner box and have a good idea on what to include there.

It took Starfinder 2 years to get its BB after all, and apparently PF1 got its beginner box halfway into its decade-long lifecycle?

So give it time, really.


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A spellslinger! (Wildstar-style)
Combining small arms with some offensive spell action.

I know you can probably cobble something together between Technomancer and Soldier and some other miscellanous options, but a straight-up "here's a caster who can do magic through a gun" would be a perfect way to get another flavorful caster in (or maybe not even a caster at all!).

Also, it would be a much more idiomatic way to do a "gish" than, say, the Arcane Assailant soldier, given Starfinder's more modern/sci-fi shtick in which a "space magus" with a sword would be a little wonky.


Yeah, I'd really appreciate that as well.

I understand that it might have made sense for the purposes of making it so you can see the Pact Worlds in their entirety instead of one half at the start of the book and one half at the end, but I'm not sure this is a particularly good way to go about it.

(I mean I'd also argue why the Pact Worlds image is even included with all the core books to begin with, but that's a separate issue entirely.)


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What might be interesting (and what Paizo themselves likely seem interested in) is books that don't have 1st edition counterparts - they have gone on record saying they don't just want to keep re-hashing the same stuff with 2e-compatible rules, and want to start doing truly new things as well.

It's fair to say some more stuff that people have come to expect out of Pathfinder are still coming (guns, psychic magic, some other popular classes, ancestries, magic items, equipment etc.), but it'd be cool to start seeing some truly fresh things, particularly in the core and LO lines.

What I personally expect to happen is something that roughly mirrors the 4th edition "_______ Power" line, mixed with some of the 1st edition Player Companions - with the way the magical traditions are set up, it would seem like a great way to flesh them out with cool new options - spells, magic items, feats, themed creatures, archetypes...
(To a degree this might be what Lost Omens Gods & Magic is already, but I was thinking more crunch-oriented.)


I sure hope a tractor/recall beam is in there. If there's gonna be drop pods to get you onto the planet, you gotta also have a way to get back out, right?

And while rather optimistic given the way the combat subsystems interact (or for that matter, don't), assault pods/ramsleds for boarding would be a really fun addition.


Also:

NPC biohackers, vanguards and witchwarpers (and their associated class grafts).

Some DOOM-style cybernetically-enhanced fiends. Maybe even a contract devil with an appropriately Hellish digital contract-datapad?

Archons! In DIVINE SPACE MARINE armor!


A wildcard guess, but hey, might as well - a virtual reality tabletop (built for Starfinder), made in tandem with another company like the Pathfinder cRPGs have been (with Owlcat).

That would certainly count as "biggest news of the decade" and "a totally new way to play RPGs", but it would also be pretty...odd.
(On top of other potential issues such an idea poses, if anyone who's been paying attention to online discourse surrounding Half-Life: Alyx would know. Then again I'm kind of a VR skeptic so...)


Duck people.

Whether that's Duck Dodgers (or just Daffy I guess), Dead-Eye Duck from Bucky O'Hare, or Dux from Mutant Year Zero, there's a non-insignificant precedent for (the more light-hearted/cartoonish) some media to feature some form of anthropomorphic ducks, particularly in scifi-adjacent stuff.
(Plus I have some original characters of mine who may happen to be in that vein that I'd love to be able to model in Starfinder natively.)

Yes, I'm aware of the Espraska in AA3, as another avian race, but it's not the same, man.


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It also serves to showcase that alchemy need not be a thing purely in the realm of the capital-A Alchemist class - one of the benefits that baking the alchemy into the core rules allowed for in the transition to 2e.

In general I've seen a lot of sentiment of "Why is this new thing its own thing and not just a subclass/archetype of a CRB class, or why not just use multiclass into an old class instead".

And the issue with that mindset is that the CRB classes and their associated multiclass archetypes come with a lot more baggage that these new classes ask for (the aforementioned example of alchemist giving access to stuff like bombs), and being bogged down by the limitations of multiclassing, like being available at level 2+ and the overall worse scaling, and lack of more thematic, unique options.

Evidently, the designers at Paizo looked at those classes and deemed them conceptually rich and apart enough from the core stuff to bring them over as full classes instead of merely as archetypes or feat packages for the existing classes.
Still though, we already have things like the Warpriest doctrine for Cleric (which makes it somewhat unlikely that we'll see Warpriest as a full 2e class), and there's a very strong likelihood that things like the Cavalier and Vigilante will also return as archetypes (Cavalier already was in the 2e playtest, and I strongly suspect it to be one of the APG archetypes), so there's precedent for them approaching the porting of 1e classes into 2e in vastly different ways.

YMMV on whether you agree with the devs on that, but this appears to be the direction they want to take these in, so I feel like best we can do is help them realize that goal now.


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As a very early first impression, these are great.

Shame there's no multiclass archetypes for these, though.


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Payton Smith wrote:

Sorry! Another typo in the blog.

We'll be talking about the Lost Omens Advanced Player's Guide playtest. Not the character guide.

Must of had the other books on the brain. Sorry!

Is it actually Lost Omens now, though?

I thought it's intended to be a core line rulebook, like the Bestiary and GMG.


Prince Setehrael wrote:

The Playtest should drop sometime this week?

Any thoughts on which day?

I'd assume Wednesday, at least given that the GMG mosnter rules and the errata also were put out on Wednesdays.

(Though not gonna lie, I'd love for it to be out sooner, if possible...)


Quote:


Advanced Character Guide
Quote:


Lost Omens Advanced Player's Guide

Where's the truth?

(I'm excited as hell, though.)


Oh yeah, that's a good point.

...Any notable duskwalkers or changelings?


I mean, surely it's oughta be one of the core ancestries, right?
Unless Paizo does the unprecedented thing of an iconic being represented by a non-core ancestry, I think it's fair to stick to humans/dwarves/elves/halflings/gnomes/half-orcs/half-elves/goblins.


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I understand that Starfinder hasn't been around for very long (and is on a somewhat slow production schedule compared to Pathfinder), so there's only so much content that can be churned out at any given moment, but I've noticed one glaring omission from its roster of options:

Giant mecha.
Sure enough we have starships, vehicles and power armor, but no MECHS.

Mecha fiction is practically its own sub-genre of sci-fi fiction, especially as far as manga/anime and video games are concerned.
Whether it's Battletech, Mobile Suit Gundam, Pacific Rim or even the upcoming RPG Lancer, people love their giant robots.

And with Starfinder's particular blend of science-fantasy, you could get some really great designs going - and who doesn't enjoy the idea of a mech that can cast spells?

And last but not least, a tie-in giant mecha adventure path where you fight kaiju would just be too damn perfect.


I don't think a video commentary will happen (though I would love that), but I really wish to know if we get to see the iconic sketches as well.


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And furries, if a friend of mine is anything to go by.

I definitely think kitsune would be a neat addition to PF2 though, especially if there's variety in their culture as well as physiology (think of all the different fox species you could base their looks on!).


Is the book going to talk about giving out non-monetary rewards, such as custom rules elements or access to uncommon/rare ones (like items, spells or archetypes), favors with individuals or organizations, that sort of thing?

Also, what does the stat block for a nation or settlement contain, and will we see them in future Lost Omens or adventure books moving forward?


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The idea of some ancestries (or anything else really) being common/uncommon by default gives the GM an indicator of the devs' default intention - even if you can make something normnally uncommon be common or vice versa, you at least know how you're diverging from the assumed baseline in that regard, as opposed to having to figure it all out on your own, with the system shifting all the burden onto you.

I imagine any kind of non-Inner Sea regional book will likely give advice on core ancestries' assumed rarity in the region in question - catfolk would likely be common in South Garund even if they might be uncommon in Inner Sea proper.

That said, I think kobolds and orcs should be common (though I can begrudgingly see the argument why they shouldn't be), though I'm unsure about catfolk and ratfolk - tengu should be probably uncommon however, as should all the heritages, with the possible exception of tieflings.


Wheldrake wrote:


Is it the Gamemastery Guide that is supposed to have new vehicle rules?

Yeah, the product page for it lists those, and a semi-recent Pathfinder Friday stream also mentioned that.


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On a tangentially-related note that I don't know if anyone at Paizo is able to answer, is the GMG still scheduled for January or has it been definitely pushed back to February?

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