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Organized Play Member. 311 posts. 5 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 3 Organized Play characters.


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keftiu wrote:
Albatoonoe wrote:
They should bring on Numerian tech. Give me some lasers and chainsaws.
They would lead with that if it was here, I feel like. Maybe 2023 is the Broken Lands' year to shine?

We know there's flamethrowers at least, though that need not be Numerian in nature.

Wayfinders

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PaizoCon 2022 keynote showed off the final cover art, a whole bunch of interior art, and gave us some details.

For ancestries, we have ghorans, vanaras, vishkanyas, nagaji (!) and the rhino-headed kashrishis who were teased in the Vudra backmatter way back.

I think the art also showed a samsaran, but I'm unsure.

Also, the art? Probably some of the most positively over the top stuff in all of Pathfinder. Oenopion (and the other Nex locale, could be either Quantium or Ecanus) is real mythic-looking.

I'm so excited.

Wayfinders

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It would be an enormous bait and switch for a developer known primarily (or indeed, exclusively) for licensed Paizo games to tease a sci-fi game (when the company they license from has a property like that), right before PaizoCon too... Only for it to turn out to be something else entirely.

It would bum out both people who have been eagerly hoping for a Starfinder video game for years, and while people who aren't fans of sci-fi/science-fantasy/non-Pathfinder wouldn't be happy either way, a new or unrelated licensed IP would just be a loss-loss for Owlcat, really.

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A few times the book refers to a 'Flame', presumably as some kind of knightly unit, akin to the established Lights (the small individual squads) and Blazes (rarely-formed out of several Lights for special missions), but it's never elaborated upon. An editing slip-up, perhaps?

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A really nice detail that I've noticed that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere else is that, if you look at the page borders, rather than featuring the Pathfinder Society symbol in the top left corner like every other Lost Omens book, you instead have the symbol of the Knights of Lastwall. This, alongside the knightly standard-like page title backgrounds, make for a really nice tweak on the usual graphic design.

(I also really enjoyed this treatment in the Mwangi Expanse book - keep 'em coming!)

Wayfinders

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For the first 2023 Adventure Path, I'll throw out a bold guess of something taking place in Vudra.

It would be bold and fresh, and the support is mostly there now - we will have psychics by then (and what better way to showcase them?), monks are obviously a thing, and a number of Vudran ancestries (especially if Lost Omens Impossible Lands gives us more, via Jalmeray), and even some deities too (and again we're very likely to get more before then). Paizo's also got some Indian freelancers on board for Impossible Lands, and I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the only assignment for some of them.

It likely wouldn't be a lore-rich deep dive, more a fun three-part romp akin to Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, but it'd be a good introduction to a region that's always been around, but not really featured properly.

Wayfinders

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Yeah, the Drift Crisis was careful about not nuking favorite locales or killing beloved NPCs - if anything they're more interesting and dynamic now, which I love.

(The Maw in the Veskarium, the extraplanar nightmare storm surrounding and isolating Vesk-7 and Vesk-8, is probably my single favorite addition, though I was surprised that the vlaka homeworld Lajok got a brief writeup in the Vast section.)

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Back in 1st edition, Ultimate Magic (with the magus), Unchained (if you count unchained classes as new) and Ultimate Intrigue (with the vigilante) were Q1 releases, so there is some historical precedent. Everything else was pretty much always targeting GenCon or later, though.

(No such precedent in 2e yet obviously.)

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Yeah, I'm not expecting any totally new LO announcements, though certainly an elaboration on/teasers for the Travel Guide and Impossible Lands would be more than welcome.

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Yeah, the Ghost Levels are not new. (They get a mention in Pact Worlds as well.)

Wayfinders

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Thassilonian might actually be experiencing a revival, given the appearance of New Thassilon.

Basically for any 'ancient fallen civilization' on any given continent, it's fair to assume that they had an associated language that died along with them (with exceptions such as Razatlani in Arcadia or Tien in Tian Xia, though even those likely have ancient forms far different from their modern counterparts).

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David knott 242 wrote:


I have my copy, so feel free to ask questions.

Excuse me, how?

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Leon Aquilla wrote:

This has been discussed before. So I'll just summarize my thoughts:

I don't think that Absalom Station is key to Starfinder in the same way it is Pathfinder.

In Pathfinder it was founded by, and then responsible for creating the god of humanity. In Starfinder it's just a beacon.

Would I like to see it in 5 years? Sure. But they haven't even done a splat on The Vast yet, so I'd rather they cover the macro before the micro.

While I wouldn't be HYPED about a book on Absalom Station (at least, not before some other topics like The Vast or the Great Beyond), I actually feel the opposite way about the two Absaloms.

I've never once felt a desire to do basically anything with Absalom in Pathfinder, despite its purported importance (I still haven't read the bulk of the Lost Omens Absalom book, and lord knows when/if I will) - a lot of stories and adventures might never so much as brush past it, and there isn't anything about the city itself that appeals to me, narratively or aesthetically - if I want urban adventure, I'd rather go to basically any other city on Golarion.

Meanwhile, unless you're running an adventure that sticks to only a single planet or isolated star system (such as Attack of the Swarm!), you will at least go through Absalom Station (it's literally baked into the game's default space travel mechanic!), it's the closest that humanity and other Golarion-descended species have to a home, and I generally like its function, atmosphere, and aesthetic a lot more. It feels like a much more natural 'central hub' to space adventure to me.

(Also one of the aforementioned Drift Crisis adventure seeds is really cool and I might run it, and one of the campaigns I tried to run was also based out of the station, so add that to the anecdotal evidence.)

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I mean, looking at it on the PF and SF wikis, he hasn't worked at Paizo (or done any freelance work for them) since 2017.

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So we're likely getting a small bestiary section in this - what are folks hoping to see?

For myself, I'd love some Jalmeri/Vudrani creatures rooted in Indian folklore (vetala vampires might finally show up here?), some Nexian fleshforge creations or Mana Wastes denizens (we've had the art of that mutant calikang since the World Guide, but I'd love stats for that thing!). We're likely good when it comes to Geb and Alkenstar creatures, given Book of the Dead and the two APs in this area, but I wouldn't mind if they were reprinted here.

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The core rulebook also has a chapter that broadly describes the setting, though in very broad strokes given it's only 26 pages.

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Lost Omens: World Guide, pg 31 wrote:


Scattered among the forests and marshes of the Sellen River basin are the River Kingdoms: a loose confederation of tiny, independent states, the largest of them holding only a few thousand souls. Hundreds of such kingdoms have risen and fallen over the centuries, for treachery and chaos are rife in this region, and few River Kingdoms outlive their founders. Within just the past few years, for instance, the kingdom of Pitax fell after an overambitious attempt to extend its borders, while a new kingdom arose out of the former Stolen Lands bordering Brevoy.

Emphasis mine, but it shows that LOWG assumes that Kingmaker was successful, and I believe Paizo devs have stated at the time that they deliberately left it vague like this.

Then again, various subtle changes took place between the Mwangi Expanse's presentation in the World Guide and in the dedicated book, and no doubt the similar will happen to the Impossible Lands and to any other future metaregion.

Curiously, while looking at this section, I also noticed this sidebar - more stuff like this would be extremely sweet.

Lost Omens: World Guide, pg 32 wrote:


HUZURIS

The tribes of old Sarkoris were famed for their mystical witch-wardens, their painted warriors, and the idols they called huzuris. Each huzuri began with the bleached skull of an animal significant to that tribe, either because it represented their totem spirit or because that individual beast shaped the tribe’s history. A fall-fattened bear who appeared before hunters on the brink of starvation and a loyal war dog who saved a clan chief in battle might equally become honored huzuris after death. Once consecrated by the tribe’s oldest witch, the huzuri became integral to the tribe’s ancestor-based magic, and was often believed to be the repository in which the spirit of the tribe itself lived. Each successive witch and chief, upon attaining that title, pressed a fingertip soaked in their own blood to the bare skull. That crimson fingerprint stored its maker’s memories, and so the collective history of the tribe was recorded in spirit-magic, blood, and bone. If a tribe’s huzuri was ever lost or destroyed, the ancient Sarkorians believed that the tribe’s soul was lost as well.

Wayfinders

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Drow are distinct enough in aesthetics, lore, mechanics, and place in the world to warrant being a separate ancestry (they're not exactly everyday citizens in Kyonin, Jinin, or among the Mualijae), though I expect them to share certain ancestry feats - whether through them being outright deduplicated, through an archetype-like Additional Feats section, or an uncommon drow feat that grants an elf feat.

What does surprise me is that we haven't even seen a third-party option for them - whether a regular supplement, on Pathfinder Infinite, or even a regular homebrew on r/Pathfinder2eCreations (I only found one and it's not even available anymore).
I understand that Paizo might likely eventually make such an offering obsolete (unless their own take is truly disappointing), but that hasn't stopped people from making several takes on kineticists, shamans and inquisitors.

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I mean, Starfinder AP issues are one third shorter than their Pathfinder equivalents, so they basically literally can't go from 1 to 20 unless they 1) Become substantially longer (Unlikely); or 2) Become 9 books long (Really unlikely).

Anyway, this one sounds fun - something urban, for a change, it seems.

Wayfinders

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The Sarkorians themselves also generally from a somewhat generic "barbarian" presentation (a problem all Kellids had, really) to one based on Pacific Northwest Native Americans (since a few folks at Paizo are of such heritage) - which is not only great from a visual standpoint, it's ripe for some excellent and sincere cultural inspiration, especially if the way the Kellids were presented in Quest for the Frozen Flame is any indication.

Honestly, I want to hear about their cuisine, as that's always a very fun roleplay vector and cultural aspect that doesn't immediately have to do with a culture's main shtick. (Though there's nonetheless plenty of room for it to be informed by it - surely some traditional recipes or important foodstuffs have been lost to time since the Worldwound opened up.)

Wayfinders

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So the location-based setting sourcebooks all have a tradition of introducing at least one new ancestry (azarketi in Absalom, and poppets in Grand Bazaar by technicality; anadi, grippli, gnolls, conrasus, shisks and golomas in Mwangi Expanse; who-knows-what in Impossible Lands), and I'd expect such a book to follow as well.

Now, there are two obvious candidates for inclusion here - the alien lashuntas that the crash-landed Divinity scooped up from Castrovel and brought along in cryo-sleep, and the more enigmatic but likely similarly transported kasathas, both elevated in popularity by way of Pathfinder's science-fantasy cousin game.
The former even have some NPCs in 2e (Lady Altouna in Numeria, Princess Misovyel's undead lashunta servants in Knights of Lastwall) and would tie in nicely with the psychic class coming in Dark Archive, though the latter are a design challenge with their four arms, but it's one that I hope Paizo would be willing to tackle - they figured out Tiny and flying PCs, after all!

Beyond that, a deep dive on the culture of the dispersed Sarkorian people would be a delight - their broad-strokes premise is great and I bet that some Paizo folks would also like to focus on them, but right now they're a little light on specific cultural customs and player options. (Give us more on god calling! And on things that are not god-calling, or that involve cleansing the demonic taint of the Scar! What are some cultural bits that were lost with the Worldwound's opening, and what is firmly kept onto and cherished? I wanna know!)

Also: a trove of Numerian technology in both items and robotic creatures would be ideal - it's non-trivial design work, but would be a great selling point for the book for those who love a dash of sci-fi weirdness in their fantasy (like I do).

Wayfinders

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Negative energy and shadow are technically two adjacent but somewhat distinct concepts (shadowcasters aren't exactly necromancers - my bard in our ongoing game certainly isn't).

I do see the shadow (creature type) and wraith argument, though.

Wayfinders

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For Casmaron we also know of Iobaria, Karazh and Kaladay, but yeah, it's pretty loose right now.

Wayfinders

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keftiu wrote:

If I'm waving my magic wand, we see announcements for a late-in-the-year rulebook with an Inquisitor playtest and a Lost Omens: Arcadia (like the World Guide, but for that continent) for next year, but even my boundless optimism doesn't stretch that far.

My more grounded guess is a Lost Omens: The Broken Lands for next year. As much as I wave my pom-poms for leaving the Inner Sea behind, the fact is that Avistan hasn't gotten a shiny new setting book in 2e yet, and I've got a few reasons why I think the Broken Lands rise to the top.

Multiple 2e books have underscored both the imminent civil war in Brevoy and the role of dragons past and future in that land. Mendev, Numeria, and the Sarkoris Scar are some of the lands most shaken up by the events of 1e Adventure Paths, so some follow-up on what they look like now has a ready appeal, as old sources don't really describe them accurately anymore - and the Sarkorians have gotten a lot of love recently, so seeing them given the full player option treatment would be a blast. Razmiran is a uniquely Golarion bad guy, well worthy of some spotlight and potentially causing all sorts of problems with his imminent mortality. The River Kingdoms are a classic, perfect for generic adventure and well-timed to capitalize on Kingmaker nostalgia.

I really don't expect it to be announced at PaizoCon, or even GenCon, but out of all the metaregions in Avistan, Broken Lands are really worthy of attention and deserving of a sourcebook (the only other major contenders IMO would be the Eye of Dread and perhaps Saga Lands) - places like Numeria and River Kingdoms in particular are fan favorites (though Numeria in particular is in bad need of dedicated rules to make their high tech work), and it'd be a great segue for people who have played through the Owlcat cRPGs as well.

(Especially if we end up with an Iron Gods adaptation!)

Wayfinders

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Realistically we'll mostly get information on already-announced releases like Dark Archive, the upcoming LO books and the Blood Lords AP.

That said, I do expect at least one rulebook announcement (alchemy book would be nice!), and a teaser of the first 2023 AP (or two if they're 3-parters) - completely clueless as to what it could be, though. Another 1-10 and 11-20 combo, perhaps?

Probably some non-TTRPG announcements too like more info on the Gale Force 9 board games, some Owlcat cRPG news, the works.
[size=2]Union news would be nice too.[/size]

Wayfinders

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Consider this clause:

Book of the Dead, pg. 33 wrote:


The following feats are available to some spellcasters who have the ability to create or control undead minions. If you’re a different class but can create or control undead and can cast at least one necromancy spell, the GM might give you access to these feats.

I think it's more than fine to allow them.

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Lost Omens: Dragon Empires Travel Guide.

Luis Loza mentioned that if it does well and people want it, the LO Travel Guide could blossom into a series of books on other parts of Golarion - and currently Tian Xia is the only other section of Golarion defined clearly enough to be a candidate.

And certainly, a book that can really serve as an opportunity to flesh out the continent's cultures and provide a...non-Orientalist look at it would be a very welcome setup to future adventures set there.

Wayfinders

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Gaulin wrote:
Was spoiled in paizo live this month that space kobolds are going to be one of the races that gets a deep dive!! Very happy about that

They also have a bonkers origin story apparently, so that's exciting as well!

Wayfinders

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Eleanor was on Deadly D8 recently to talk about LO Knights of Lastwall (among other things).

Some highlights, some of which might have been known already:

Spoiler:

- Book has a Gravelands gazetteer
- Writeups on major good guys within the KoL, and their allies without - including the Magaambya, fey of Nirmathas' Fangwood Forest, and Oprak's hobgoblins
- Marshall and Medic are called out among the existing archetypes getting new feats

Wayfinders

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Does Druma (and the Followers of Kalistrade) have a particular origin in some obscure real-world history, or another work of fiction? It's a pretty unique (and very cool!) nation, but one that's a pretty novel sight among the other nations of Avistan.

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For what it's worth, LO Impossible Lands was accidentally revealed to have more thorough rules for this. (Something I can hopefully say out loud now.)

Shame they're not reprinted here, but presumably those rules might still be in development and/or there wasn't space to put them in here, depending on how detailed they are.

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Consider: barbarian focus spells (wrath spells?).

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Honestly, the base chassis of PF2 is robust enough that...You really wouldn't need a PF3 to be that profoundly different. At least, not nearly to the same degree that PF1 and PF2 were.

Like there are things that would be good to change, sure, but the overall structure could remain remarkably familiar.

The kind of massive mechanical sweeps that happen between D&D editions and Pathfinder are the exception and not the rule - most other RPGs' editions are far more familiar to one another, and I feel that Pathfinder's could be in the same boat moving forward.

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If we're doing specific requests, I myself want to know what the "apocryphal divine magic" is about.

Weirdly enough: backgrounds would also be fun to hear about, be they common or rare. I bet there's some fun ones here!

Wayfinders

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Yeah, I'm intensely curious about the non-new-class player options, and GM tools.

Especially stuff related to the other five case files which we know pretty much nothing about.

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I could potentially see it in a general "sci-fi" themed book with other thematically adjacent options, like alien ancestries (lashuntas, kasathas) and lore on Golarion's solar system - kind of a mishmash between the Technology Guide, Distant Worlds and People of the Stars from 1e days.

But no, nothing of the sort was announced so far, and we won't know until we either hear about it at a major con (PaizoCon, GenCon is when such announcements happen), or a store page for it randomly goes up.

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You get the PDF once your particular order of products for the month starts going into transit from Paizo's warehouse to your address - it could be later today, it could be in a week or two, it all depends on where in line your shipment happens to be.

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My one worry about a divine rulebook is that Lost Omens: Gods & Magic already exists.

Obviously it was a separate product line, and it did not include almost any of the things you are referring to, but just on the basis of similar thematics I think it might push it down the priority queue, even though it's also admittedly been a little while since it released - but I don't know on what 'thematic cooldowns' Paizo production schedules operate.

I would be delighted about a Golden Road book (lord knows it needs it, and frankly the wider RPG scene might need it because I have Very Mixed Feelings about Critical Role's Marquet, the main big Fantasy MENA right now; also rounding out the Garundi-based Inner Sea regions would be fantastic), but that doesn't seem to be what's immediately on the table.

Wayfinders

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With Book of the Dead around the corner and Dark Archive hype to start ramping up soon after, on top of PaizoCon being next month, I figured it might be a good opportunity to bring this back.

I still think that a book themed around alchemy is a strong contender - it's its own thing now both mechanically and narratively, different from its 1e presentation, yet we haven't had a proper deep dive on it in 2e yet - Guns & Gears touched on it a little, but mostly in the context of black powder. (There weren't even any new bombs!)

I want to know how alchemy works in-universe now, and give all manner of characters more ways to interface with it - really make it feel like it's a force on par with magic, and an equally potent vehicle for storytelling.
Lord knows that people would also appreciate some buffs and tweaks to the alchemist proper too.

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Ly'ualdre wrote:
How unfortunate. Skeletons can't take the Beastkin Heritage (which can only be taken by Ancestrieswith the Humanoid trait). Would have been neat to describe what happens to a Beastkin's Skeleton as it used its shape changing abilities. Their bones breaking and reshaping in front of everyone's eyes.

You can take the monstrous skeleton heritage, at the very least.

Anyway, these archetypes look SO fun, and I love the various bits of mechanical innovation on display here (like the idea of undead benefits, or the ghoul satiation mechanic), and the skeleton is also really fun by the sound of it.

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Yeah, I'm imagining PC zombies (and associated new NPC zombies) to resemble the special infected from the Left 4 Dead video games. Sounds exciting.

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I enjoy really cool and evocative lore as much as the next person, but to have additional mechanical options to express and cement that lore at the table is always nice, IMHO.

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Excellent news! Foundry is, IMHO, the single greatest way to play and run PF2 currently, so to see the official recognition and partnership is wonderful to hear.

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On the latest Know Direction, Luis Loza mentioned how they worked extra hard with the design team to bring in a bunch of rules options, beyond the expected ancestries.

Very exciting to know this! This was a common complaint with both the Mwangi Expanse and Absalom City of Lost Omens, so while I'm still expecting this to be predominantly a lore book, I'm that much more curious about the crunch in this one.

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Fumarole wrote:
CrockettJames wrote:
My second question posted here in April 2022....is what adventures should I carry in my store for early players and their DM's??? I have 2E rulebook now, character sheets, bestiary, and couple of adventures..but looking for more input on what to stock? Thought I'd come to those who play...
Other than the Beginner Box, the standalone adventures would be a good thing to stock, since they are designed to be played by themselves and are a good way to introduce players to the game. You can find them here. Stocking the Gamemastery Guide would also be a good idea, though it is not necessary to GM a game.

The Advanced Player's Guide might also be worthwhile in at least some capacity - given it introduces some very important (or at least desirable by players) concepts and options, some of which really make PF2 stand out from D&D (tieflings and aasimar available with any ancestry, the bevvy of archetypes, classes like oracle and investigator, to name a few).

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It hit me that, with Nex and Jalmeray in particular, there's a strong chance we might get genie and/or elemental eidolons (as arcane and primal options respectively) for summoners in this - two highly demanded options, and ones I don't really foresee a better opportunity for anytime soon, outside of something like a Golden Road book or an Adventure Path.

Wayfinders

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Mortics are much of an Eye of Dread thing than an Impossible Lands one, given their origin in Tyrant's Grasp, unless some have somehow made their way into Geb.

EDIT: Clarification - we knew about conrasu, shisks and golomas...From one line in the World Guide. So they didn't arrive completely out of the blue, but I don't blame anyone for thinking that - some of us are just obsessive lorehounds who cling onto any mentions of cool new stuff.

Wayfinders

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Whimsy Chris wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:
While a full-on "Lost Omens for 5e players" primer might be out of the question...

I'm surprised one of these hasn't been created by a community of 5e players who like the Lost Omens campaign setting. There are some important factors to consider when fitting your character into Golarion, particularly among races. For instance, in Golarion, elves are not ancestors of the First World, so Fey Ancestry doesn't make as much sense, but it would make some sense for Gnomes.

Maybe someday, I'll come up with a list of Golarion racial variants for 5e, complete with subraces based on Golarian heritages.

If there's ever a good time for that kind of thing, it's now when we're getting things like 5e Abomination Vaults and, technically, 5e Kingmaker.

Wayfinders

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Starfinder is pretty overdue for a cyberpunk, urban, possibly-corporate intrigue kind of AP - Shadowrun is one of its big influences after all, it'd be really cool to have an homage to that kind of thing.
Plop it on Absalom Station, Verces or Apostae and have minimal starship involvement - though potentially with a permanent vehicle in its place, to spice things up.

Another big niche not yet handled by existing APs would be something post-apocalyptic - scavenging ruins, fighting mutated wasteland creatures and other survivor bands (or perhaps entering uneasy alliances), protecting and building up either a stationary settlement or a nomadic convoy - loads of fun possibilities.

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While a full-on "Lost Omens for 5e players" primer might be out of the question (and let's face it, with how self-contained this AP is, I imagine it's trivial to transplant the whole affair into a setting like Forgotten Realms or Eberron, though obviously Paizo can't legally tell you how), a 5e conversion of the player's guide would be pretty great, IMHO - backgrounds that hook PCs into the adventure (with a payoff!) are a great thing about Pathfinder APs, so it would be great to showcase that as well, even though AbV is hardly the most idiosyncratic or unusual premise.

(And yes, folks could just grab the existing PF2 player's guide for it since it's so light on mechanics anyway, but that'd still have some friction to it, I feel.)

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