Summoner/champion should be pretty interesting for trying to jump into the fray with your buddy. extra points for having an ancestry with weapon feats. I, however, will be basic and mix summoner with sorcerer.
Oooh. Tenets of Evil champion archetype on a summoner base could be pretty tasty. Their Champion reaction triggers off of taking damage, after all, and the shared life pool means that anything that damages your eidolon damages you.
Twinned would honestly be easy to do. Give the Twinned summoner the Mirrored Attack action as their level 1 abilityMirrored Attack
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The Eidolon and the Summoner both make a strike against the target. This ability only effects MAP once per usage.At level 9?
Shared Adaptations
The summoner gains access to all evolution feats that the Eidolon has.At level 17
Dual Complexity
Both the Summoner and Eidolon are identical in terms of evolution, armor, spell usage, proficiencies, and feats.
Heck - you could run that as just a short series of class feats. Might need a bit of tuning to make sure that dumping evolutions on the summoner isn't somehow OP, but should be quite doable.
Honestly 5 feats of wizard/witch on magus and 5 feats of sorcerer/bard on summoner isn't too bad an investment for making a big gishz threat. I'm guessing both classes are gonna have enough primo feats to make that a hard decision. Just a gut feeling.
Honestly 5 feats of wizard/witch on magus and 5 feats of sorcerer/bard on summoner isn't too bad an investment for making a big gishz threat. I'm guessing both classes are gonna have enough primo feats to make that a hard decision. Just a gut feeling.
I hope we get some nice feats. I've been playing a playtest Magus from level 2 to level 9 now. The playtest feats so far are meh. I'm playing in a free archetype game so I've used my free feats to dedicate into Witch for extra spells and focus spells. I've used some of my Magus feats to also dedicate into Fighter for Attack of Oportunity.
I'm hoping the final version has A) attack of opportunity as a feat at 6th level, B) more and better feat selection in general, and C) way more interesting focus spells. I'm very eager to see the Laughing Shadow focus spell that lets you teleport since my playtest Magus is a slide Magus.
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Honestly 5 feats of wizard/witch on magus and 5 feats of sorcerer/bard on summoner isn't too bad an investment for making a big gishz threat. I'm guessing both classes are gonna have enough primo feats to make that a hard decision. Just a gut feeling.I hope we get some nice feats. I've been playing a playtest Magus from level 2 to level 9 now. The playtest feats so far are meh. I'm playing in a free archetype game so I've used my free feats to dedicate into Witch for extra spells and focus spells. I've used some of my Magus feats to also dedicate into Fighter for Attack of Oportunity.
I'm hoping the final version has A) attack of opportunity as a feat at 6th level, B) more and better feat selection in general, and C) way more interesting focus spells. I'm very eager to see the Laughing Shadow focus spell that lets you teleport since my playtest Magus is a slide Magus.
A) the live play has already shown the Magus gets AoO by at least 6th level.
B) there is no doubt there as they said the playtest was just a small sample of the final product
C) from what we've seen so far, they are pretty solid with most being action compression.
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Mirrored Attack
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The Eidolon and the Summoner both make a strike against the target. This ability only effects MAP once per usage.
I've said this like three times now but I really want a feat or option that does something like this. Fighting alongside your eidolon is super thematic, but with the way the summoner looks on their own making an attack as one is probably going to be a bad idea most of the time.
The action compression focus spells are the Hydrid Studies one, the others do others that you get by feat do other stuff (like Force Fang that is just some damage that automatically hit, think of wizard Force Bolt).
The action compression focus spells are the Hydrid Studies one, the others do others that you get by feat do other stuff (like Force Fang that is just some damage that automatically hit, think of wizard Force Bolt).
Force Fang automatically hits ? Didn't know that
Hol' up
research system?
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Hol' up
research system?
Presumably the Victory Point-based one detailed in the GMG :)
Having recently gained some experience with creating a selection system purely based on creature types (celestial, fiend, dragon...etc.), I can see why one would take a mixed approach and split up some of the types into the monster families (or equivalent).
The purely creature type approach works great for something like dragons or oozes. They have a strong unifying theme, with many shared or extremely similar abilities. You can make some alternate features, like Coiling Frenzy instead of Draconic Frenzy, but you don't need a completely separate entry. The imperial dragons are a small wrench in that plan, but it generally works.
Then you have things like celestials or fiends, who have some unifying features, but the themes and unique abilities are so iconic and distinctive that they really profit from being split up.
Lastly, you have things like aberrations and other generally weird occult stuff. They are all so different, that they essentially require multiple entries.
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Posted on Reddit the spoilers from the latest Secrets of Magic livestream. Link to it can be found HERE..
TLDR: There's two new cantrips (one being Bullhorn, which we heard about during PaizoCon), and finally the usage of Arcade Cascade. Also, Dond crit AGAIN.
Also, Jason Bulmahn is gonna be on Glass Cannon's Cannon Fodder show tomorrow at 8:30 PDT, and he said he'll be talking a little bit about Secrets of Magic. If anything new is said, I'll let y'all know!
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We heard about quite a few spells during PaizoCon. Here is a list of the ones I managed to assemble:
- Angel Form
- Animal Allies – 2 action spell on page 90
- Approximate – Divination Cantrip that magically estimates the number of nearby objects.
- Blink Charge – Is a teleport-then-Strike spell
- Bullhorn – Illusion Cantrip that magnifies your voice to be heard at a distance.
- Cosmic Form
- Daemon Form
- Demon Form
- Devil Form
- Draconic Legion – Incarnate Spell that summons a bunch of Dragons to attack someone.
- Fey Form
- Forceful Hand – Gets more special hand abilities to push people around and grab them as it heightens.
- Gale Blast –Evocation Cantrip that damages and pushes adjacent creatures with air. “Damage equal to your spellcasting modifier! It also pushes creatures away from you, 5 feet on a failure and 10 feet on a crit failure!” Damage scales like the spell, Daze.
- Gouging Claw – This is a cantrip where you get a big claw to slash someone
- Haunting Hymn – This is a divine attack cantrip that does sonic damage in a 15-foot cone; very divine and occult -themed. “It doesn't have any bells and whistles per se, though it also gives the target the deafened condition for 1 minute on a crit fail.” “In addition to gale blast, haunting hymn affects all enemies that can hear you! (Did we mention it's a ridiculously good spell?)” “Haunting hymn affects all enemies that hear you that are in the area.”
- Healing Plaster – Cantrip that basically lets you make something akin to a set of Healer's Tools, working similarly to Summon Instrument. The heightened version even comes with a +1 bonus to Medicine checks, similar to the Expanded Healer's Tools.
- One with the Land – “is a high-level primal spell where you merge into a natural feature like a big rock or tree, and can then control the environment in an area around to perceive, make attacks, or adjust the terrain.”
- Ooze Form
- Prismatic Armor – Illusion spell, which has a lovely illustration.
- Proliferating Eyes – Plant an invisible seeing eye on a target. It buds off and spreads to another target touched, creating a web of spying eyes you can use to track your target and their associates.
- Puff of Poison – Cantrip where you blow poison in someone’s face. “Puff of poison has a range of 5 feet and does damage equal to your spellcasting modifier, and 2 persistent poison damage!”
- Scattering Spree – Cantrip that creates difficult terrain in 2 squares (“It's 2 cubes within a range of 30 feet!” “Which must be adjacent.”) and deals 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier bludgeoning damage to creatures in those squares. “The damage requires a save, but the difficult terrain applies regardless, which is nice.”
- Scorching Ray – variable action spell, 1 action to shoot a ray, 2 or 3 actions to shoot 2 or different rays at different targets. It isn't affected by MAP until after all three rays go off
- Spout – Water Cantrip that “…has a range of 30 feet and a 5-foot cube area, and it deals 1d4 bludgeoning plus your spellcasting modifier. It only affects one square, but if there are multiple creatures in the square, it affects all of them.” You can also change the area to a 5-foot burst centered in water, if you want.
- Summon Kaiju – 10th level incarnate spell that has a list of all kaiju in Golarion.
- Tame – Cantrip that improves the attitude of domesticated animals; but, only 1 animal at a time.
- Vengeful Dead – Incarnate Spell
- Warding Aggression – Divine spell that “…lets you strike a foe and then gain AC bonuses against that foe.”
- Zero gravity – variable action spell
What's difference? Especially between divine vessel and each other- Angel Form
- Cosmic Form
- Daemon Form
- Demon Form
- Devil Form
- Fey Form
- Ooze Form
Don't know; we only heard/saw the names of the spells.
Presumably the Victory Point-based one detailed in the GMG :)Hol' up
research system?
Isn't this the system that also played a major part in the Pathfinder module Malevolence ?
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Isn't this the system that also played a major part in the Pathfinder module Malevolence ?Presumably the Victory Point-based one detailed in the GMG :)Hol' up
research system?
I'm afraid I'm unsure of that, I've been avoiding spoilers there :)
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Posted on Reddit the spoilers from the latest Secrets of Magic livestream. Link to it can be found HERE.
TLDR: There's two new cantrips (one being Bullhorn, which we heard about during PaizoCon), and finally the usage of Arcade Cascade. Also, Dond crit AGAIN.
Also, Jason Bulmahn is gonna be on Glass Cannon's Cannon Fodder show tomorrow at 8:30 PDT, and he said he'll be talking a little bit about Secrets of Magic. If anything new is said, I'll let y'all know!
Link to the Glass Cannon Podcast's Cannon Fodder spoilers can be found HERE.
TLDR: Lots of details dropped, including additional effects from Laughing Shadow's Arcane Cascade, and a new spell!
For me Magus, class archetypes, and spells.
When I have talked to customer service they have
told me the father you are away from warehouse earlier they ship. The idea is to try have people get it same
time.
I think release date got pushed back because Gen Cons date got pushed back.
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Two stat block versions of every Eidolon? Wow, that must take a lot of page space. Part of me things COOL! Another part thinks they should have just given floating stats for us to fill in.
It's probably just the main stat or at most the general ability score line that is different. I imagine the rest is shared.
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I think release date got pushed back because Gen Cons date got pushed back.
The release was pushed back due to printing delays and they don't want to release the PDF until the book hits the street (which has always been their stance).
I work in an industry that relies heavily on print materials and can definitely attest to the fact that there are major delays across the board for print materials.
The original release date was July, that got pushed to August 5th, then that to August 25th. Hopefully it doesn't push any further back.
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The pandemic does not have as much to do with the shipping problems we have now as most people think. This problem has been building up for a very long time. COVID was mainly just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. But, the pandemic is not what made the shipping problem possible. This video does a pretty decent job of explaining it, if you are curious.
I'm wondering a few things about Magus.
1- Can you still enter a "default" Arcane Cascade while not fulfilling the requirements for your Hybrid study (for example, wielding a second weapon or holding yours 2 handed with Laughing Shadow) and still do spellstrikes ?
2- Do you think at higher level, kind of like Ranger, a Magus could get basic benefit from another study ? Basically giving you 2 possible stances.
3- Will a staff fused in a weapon still count as a staff for Gnarling Branch ? I assume not 'cause it might be a bit too convenient but who knows.
What are your thoughts/expectations on that ?
I'm wondering a few things about Magus.
1- Can you still enter a "default" Arcane Cascade while not fulfilling the requirements for your Hybrid study (for example, wielding a second weapon or holding yours 2 handed with Laughing Shadow) and still do spellstrikes ?2- Do you think at higher level, kind of like Ranger, a Magus could get basic benefit from another study ? Basically giving you 2 possible stances.
3- Will a staff fused in a weapon still count as a staff for Gnarling Branch ? I assume not 'cause it might be a bit too convenient but who knows.
What are your thoughts/expectations on that ?
Ranger can get a second edge!?!
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Ranger can get a second edge!?!I'm wondering a few things about Magus.
1- Can you still enter a "default" Arcane Cascade while not fulfilling the requirements for your Hybrid study (for example, wielding a second weapon or holding yours 2 handed with Laughing Shadow) and still do spellstrikes ?2- Do you think at higher level, kind of like Ranger, a Magus could get basic benefit from another study ? Basically giving you 2 possible stances.
3- Will a staff fused in a weapon still count as a staff for Gnarling Branch ? I assume not 'cause it might be a bit too convenient but who knows.
What are your thoughts/expectations on that ?
Level 18, and you don't get the Master's Edge benefit. Seems like a tough sell to me but I could see it being valuable for precision when fighting something immune, and for Outwit utility.
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Outwit's utility is very often underestimated, if you're smart it can be very useful
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About SoM i don't recall see anywhere if this book will bring to us new specifc familiars or new familiar abilities?
We know there's a Shadow familiar in the Shadow Magic section, but aside from that, we don't know anything else familiar-related.
Ranger can get a second edge!?!I'm wondering a few things about Magus.
1- Can you still enter a "default" Arcane Cascade while not fulfilling the requirements for your Hybrid study (for example, wielding a second weapon or holding yours 2 handed with Laughing Shadow) and still do spellstrikes ?2- Do you think at higher level, kind of like Ranger, a Magus could get basic benefit from another study ? Basically giving you 2 possible stances.
3- Will a staff fused in a weapon still count as a staff for Gnarling Branch ? I assume not 'cause it might be a bit too convenient but who knows.
What are your thoughts/expectations on that ?
Level 18, and you don't get the Master's Edge benefit. Seems like a tough sell to me but I could see it being valuable for precision when fighting something immune, and for Outwit utility.
Didn't even see that.... yep Ranger is the best class in the game. I knew it from the start. Truly the height of martial fun. I can't stop making rangers in pathbuilder.
I've been watching CohhCarnage play Pillars of Eternity lately. He's playing a Ranger. Recently he said he's regretting that choice because "it's the most boring class in the game". :-)
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Didn't even see that.... yep Ranger is the best class in the game. I knew it from the start. Truly the height of martial fun. I can't stop making rangers in pathbuilder.Ranger can get a second edge!?!I'm wondering a few things about Magus.
1- Can you still enter a "default" Arcane Cascade while not fulfilling the requirements for your Hybrid study (for example, wielding a second weapon or holding yours 2 handed with Laughing Shadow) and still do spellstrikes ?2- Do you think at higher level, kind of like Ranger, a Magus could get basic benefit from another study ? Basically giving you 2 possible stances.
3- Will a staff fused in a weapon still count as a staff for Gnarling Branch ? I assume not 'cause it might be a bit too convenient but who knows.
What are your thoughts/expectations on that ?
Level 18, and you don't get the Master's Edge benefit. Seems like a tough sell to me but I could see it being valuable for precision when fighting something immune, and for Outwit utility.
What I love from ranger is how good of a basis they are for gishes.
Grab a warden spell, then dedication to druid and enjoy having a fairly decent spell scaling while only needing 1 level 1 feat to get your main melee attack.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I understand we're getting two new classes with this book, but will there be any new builds for existing classes? Like Cleric Doctrines or Barbarian Instincts or Druid Orders, etc?
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I understand we're getting two new classes with this book, but will there be any new builds for existing classes? Like Cleric Doctrines or Barbarian Instincts or Druid Orders, etc?
There will be I think three new druid orders to round out the elemental theme that started with the storm druid, as well as monk stances that reflect the various elements.
A new shadow wolf animal companion.
And class archetypes that could be appplied to various spellcasting classes.
No new doctrines or barbarian instincts though.
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I understand we're getting two new classes with this book, but will there be any new builds for existing classes? Like Cleric Doctrines or Barbarian Instincts or Druid Orders, etc?There will be I think three new druid orders to round out the elemental theme that started with the storm druid, as well as monk stances that reflect the various elements.
A new shadow wolf animal companion.
And class archetypes that could be appplied to various spellcasting classes.
No new doctrines or barbarian instincts though.
I am starting to think they have jammed themselves into a corner over doctrines and have no way of adding more. What they offered was so limited (and poor to be honest) that they aren’t that solid a structure for new ones
This was exactly the problem with the 1E cleric from an archetype stand point. And they were keenly aware of it. But kind of repeated the mistake (albeit slightly differently and unintentionally)
It seems like it would take a full errata of the current cleric doctrines (rounding them out more and balancing them better) to even allow for new ones
And then there is the question of what could they be? Perhaps that is the sticking point and not the balance but that would surprise me
We already have medium armour melee and no armour caster. Obvious one is the “rogue”/skilled cleric (if we assume the current ones are fighter and wizard). Whether or not this is inquisitor or something else is unclear
Perhaps this should be the idea? Try to mirror existing class roles in the way the current doctrines do. Some won’t make sense of course
But there could be a monk one (perhaps in a jalmeray book) giving powerful fists without the need for the monk dedication. Not sure what else. But the question will always be - what does this add over cleric with a monk dedication
Perhaps evangelist as the “bard cleric”? Maybe some kind of wild doctrine cleric so that you can be a more nature cleric and not be a druid ? Necromancer is usually a popular request but often no PC friendly ...
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I understand we're getting two new classes with this book, but will there be any new builds for existing classes? Like Cleric Doctrines or Barbarian Instincts or Druid Orders, etc?
Druid, Monk, and Wizard are getting class specific content. All other additions are either class agnostic or archetypes that can be applied to multiple classes (but perhaps not all). An example of the latter is Wellspring magic can be applied to any spontaneous FULL caster. I note "full" caster as they are distinguishing Magus and Summoner as not being "full" casters.
They said they avoided class specific options for the most part in order to use page space on things more people can enjoy rather than only specific classes.
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I thought the entire point of being a subscriber was that you always got the product first... if not then whats the point?
The point of being a subscriber is that you don’t pay individually for both the PDF and the physical book, and you get access to the PDF as soon as your order is billed.
Usually this is before the street date release of the product in stores - but Paizo makes no claim that this is a guarantee of subscription. Just the nature of how it tends to work out.
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I am starting to think they have jammed themselves into a corner over doctrines and have no way of adding more. What they offered was so limited (and poor to be honest) that they aren’t that solid a structure for new onesI does seem that way. This video goes over it pretty well I think. They basically made the baseline Cleric in Cloistered and then Warpriest for people that want something a little different, but this doesn't leave a whole lot of room for additional doctrines. Especially since they basically get caster baseline proficiency from going Cloistered, so in order to do anything else they're going to lose something that full casters generally get.
Just like in 1e, Cleric is a poorly designed class with not many options for expansion in 2e.