Seventh Seal's page

Sixteen, if you include the Folklore& Mythology chapter!

Where has this been?
How has this thread remained hidden all these years!?

Absolutely Awesome!! :D

When will the pdf be available for purchase?

On street date -- March 30th (according to the most recent blog update on new products & subscribers' shipping above).

<snip> ...but it would acknowledge what everyone already knows and show at least a modicum of attrition even if it sounds a bit clichéd...

Is this the right word here?

I ask because attrition means "a reduction or decrease in numbers, size, or strength".
(It's possible you're using the word you intended. If so, disregard this post. However, what you posted reads very differently with "attrition" rather than "contrition"...)

<shrug>

@CorvusMask:
I know that what I'm about to say may come across as being pedantic (& my apologies for it in advance), but in the interest of not unintentionally misrepresenting the people you are supporting (such as Crystal), the word you want to use is corroborate -- not collaborate.

Corroborate means to "confirm or give support to [something]", while collaborate means to "work jointly on [something]".

By continuing to use the word 'collaborate', you are (unintentionally, I hope?) implying that Crystal is working together with Jessica on making all the allegations (true or not) that the latter has made, i.e. you've been saying that they are in cahoots.

Of course, if that's what you actually mean (but again, I don't think it is), then disregard this post...

Works fine for me.

Thank you. Glad to know that the link works as intended.

Seventh Seal wrote:

Here's more general information on the word targe

Hope it helps.

Thanks.

Just to flag you're using a Chrome-specific feature to highlight text. It does not work anywhere else.

??

I don't (& never have) used Chrome.

The text "highlighting" you see is because it's formatted as a link (as per the 'How to format your text' instructions for this forum).

Does the link not work?
??

I don't really take bets as a personal choice but if I did I'd be wagering this lasts no more than four or five "Seasons" or "Series" maximum.

It's been stated that the series'll be eight seasons of eight episodes each.

Of course, if the series bombs relatively quickly in the earlier seasons, this may change... But I'm hopeful it'll make maximum use of & get all eight seasons they're planning for! : )

Here's more general information on the word targe

Hope it helps.

There's also the neutral giant goddess Fandarra. She is both an earth & fertility goddess associated with old knowledge. While she was a contemporary of Erastil (& thus is an old deity), she never gave up the wild side of her primal nature to become more 'acceptable' to more 'civilised'* societies.

Maybe she's a good stand in for the old Gaea-type mother goddess (as opposed to Jaidi, who is definitely more of a Demeter-type mother goddess)?

Hope this helps a little. :)

* By 'civilised', I mean a group of people that has come together at a central location & cleared/drained the surrounding area (of woodland/wetland) enough to build a relatively large, sustainable community with a set of codified laws (like a small town) & that utilises its surrounding resources to a greater degree than subsistence, perhaps allowing for trade with other such communities.
Of course, different cultures & ancestries will have their own idea of what is 'civilised', but the description given here is what Erastil came to represent (initially, at least) & what Fandarra rejected, so...

Midnightoker wrote:

Hol' up

research system?

Presumably the Victory Point-based one detailed in the GMG :)

Isn't this the system that also played a major part in the Pathfinder module Malevolence ?

^ ??

There was a Mammoth Hunter PrC?!
(I knew of the Mammoth Rider PrC, but not of the one you mentioned above...)

Learning something new...

<shrug>

^ Interesting. I wasn't aware that the word 'naturalist' was used as a game term in Pathfinder 1E...

My query was based on the first (& third) meaning of the word from here:
Naturalist

AnimatedPaper wrote:

I feel like “Scientist” is describing a background, not a class.

Yes, I was trying to drum up images of academics that come to Terwa Lake, most likely to study the fauna (or maybe the ruins). =) Ija’s father Is an admin/escort of some kind that aids expedition groups in setting up camp near Kiutu, since it’s in a central location to a few points of interest.

With what you're envisioning, would "Naturalist" work here as an alternative?

Because the creator who named her (Mona, iirc) is a fan of the Doctor Who franchise & thought it would be a great name (tweaked, of course) for the character.

I could be wrong...?

So I got all of the Pathfinder novel segments without a hitch, but I haven't seen the Starfinder one in my inbox yet.

That's because it hasn't been sent out yet?

(The first chapter is on the Paizo blog, thereafter each of the successive chapters will be sent by email - provided your settings are correct.)

(This is what's written in the introductory text above the actual chapter...)

Hope this helps.

↑ One would think that that greater/dire cyclops would've been a good candidate for it...

<shrug>

Could they perhaps be Wrin Sivinxi?
(From a mention in the statblock of Otari on p.135 of the Gamemastery Guide.)

You mentioned Silent Hill & Hellraizer as inspirations for your game/setting, right?

As such, perhaps have a look at Pathfinder's Sakhils (former psychopomps that are the embodiments of fear & would fit right in with a Silent Hill setting) & Velstracs (group that expands on kytons & is heavily inspired by Hellraizer)?

(You are looking for inspirational material, & if you find the Qlippoth inspiring, then maybe Sakhils & Velstracs will be, too...)

As for sources: explore the Pathfinder wiki, which tends to have a good list of where to find information on specific topics that are often spread throughout multiple books.

Note: It's generally not considered good etiquette on the Paizo forums to make multiple identical threads/posts (whether in the same or different subforum). So, it's bound to bring up some comment when you do, & quite likely not in answer to any query you may've made. (It also makes more work for the moderators when they have to now track down & merge all the identical threads.)

Still, it's not always clear which subforum is most appropriate for a thread.

Usually prefacing your post with a "I'm not sure if this is the correct subforum, but..." or, if you realise your thread may be in the wrong subforum, flagging it (as suggested by CrystalSeas above) can go a long way to getting things sorted out.

Hope you get an answer to your query (although it seems it has been answered, so...).

From Qadira: Jewel of the East (scattered throughout, but especially p.25)

Qadira is culturally matrilineal: a man's closest female relatives (besides his mother) are his sisters, not daughters.
Daughters are important for the continuation of the family line & have a say in who their partners (married or otherwise) will be, although family expectations may influence this.
Sons are important for marital alliances between families as they act as chief negotiators on behalf of their own family even though they marry into the wife's family.
If the husband is of a higher rank, then his wife would be adopted as a 'daughter' of his family & thus ensure that the children's affiliations remain in the family. (In the reverse case where the wife outranks the husband, the children automatically remain in her family & would also outrank any relatives on their father's side.)
Also, if one is disowned by one's mother, one loses all claim to inheritance & possibly one's family name, too (the latter is implied, though).

Note (1): The Empire of Kelesh (of which Qadira is a satrapy) disapproves of slavery*, even though it's a reality (& 'legal') in Qadira (mostly from prisoners of war). (Qadira: Jewel of the East, p.44)

Note (2): Xerbystes II's marriage seems to be relatively 'recent' (i.e. it's a second edition change as he was unmarried throughout first edition).

Going by the above information, it seems plausible that Xerbystes married into a noble family from the larger Empire & his wife is trying to bring the sensibilities (regarding slavery) of said larger Empire to the distant satrapy that is Qadira. (Maybe?)

Note (3): I do not have nor have I read Lost Omens Legends - yet, so the paragraph above is purely conjectural.

What is a Daiyu? Tried googling it, but found no results.

^ Is "daiyu" actually correct? Is it perhaps not meant to be 'daikyu' (=Japanese great/long bow)?

...Hmm...<shrug>

<edit> Added quote for clarity.

Wouldn't the Peacock Spirit also be appropriate for Return of the Runelords as it answered a few forum theories?

While you could have a character who is a devotee of it (esp. at the start), the Peacock Spirit cult is set up to be antagonistic in the first few books (& then a non-issue thereafter because <spoiler>), so...

<shrug>

Does the Web Supplement contain information not in the book?

Yes - boons & curses granted by the 20 non-core deities detailed in the book. (As each only has a page, this info couldn't be included.)

Hope this helps.

<snip>

It seems very weird to me to say it's easier to fight monsters that are less human when human is the number one enemy in most APs and easily the best overall choice for Ranger favored enemy.

Note: Having human (or humanoid, for that matter - monstrous, giant, or otherwise) listed as your favoured enemy is not going to be of any help to you as a Ranger against demons, devils, undead, alghollthu(sp?), robots, genies, dragons, or AIs, let alone even deities...

Eh? Your biggest bad, Tar-Baphon, is a human. The Runelords were all human. Lamashtu is a pregnant human woman. Asmodeus is a red human. Queen Ileosa is human. Areelu Vorlesh is human. Norgorber is human. Geb is human. Nex is human. Razmiran is human. Irovetti is human. Abrogail II is human. Unity was built by humans. Zura is a succubus who was, wait for it... a human Azlanti princess! And of course then there's Baba Yaga just for good measure, who not only is a human, but decided to just make a demon lord out of, you guessed it, a human.

<snip>

Eh? What? There's a lot in this paragraph that's not strictly true...

• Tar-Baphon: While he was once human, he is now a lich -> undead.
• Runelords: Mostly true (Zutha was a lich).
• Lamashtu: Is a demon & goddess, & I don't think was ever human.
• Asmodeus: Is a devil & god, & was never human.
• Areelu Vorlesh: While she was once human, she became a succubus -> demon.
• Geb: While he was once human, he is now a ghost -> undead.
• Norgorber: While he's assumed to have been human, there are bits of lore here & there that seem to hint that he might have been something else...
• Unity: As you've said, he was built by humans, but that doesn't make him human.
• Zura: While she was once human, she is now a demon (I don't recall her being a succubus, but that still wouldn't make her human).

All the others (including Baba Yaga, who is not a demon lord!) are/were human (iirc...), so your point applies to them.

*Also, I'm not sure that the Alghollthu(sp?) created humans - they certainly "uplifted" a specific group of them, but that's not the same as "creating" them.

The rest of your post (except for *) is... fine. Doesn't change what the Creative Director said, though...

Anogetz may be in allegiance to Szuriel as his(?) realm (an isolated plateau) is in her domain. (Book of the Damned p.112)

Going by the Bestiary [P2], Extraplanars are broadly divided into three main groups (so far...):

* Celestials, which are the Good extraplanar types, with Archons(LG), Angels(NG), & Azatas(CG) being the main exemplars;

* Monitors, which are the Neutral (not just "True Neutral") extraplanar types, with Aeons(LN), Psychopomps(N), & Proteans(CN) being the main exemplars;

*Fiends, which are the Evil extraplanar types, with Devils(LE), Daemons(NE), & Demons(CE) being the main exemplars.

Of course, there are many other types within the three broad groups, as well as some outliers.

Hope that helps!

<edit> Partially ninjaed above, although not all of it may hold true for P2, & it's far from a complete list... (peri, garuda?, couatl??, sahkil, oni??, rakshasa??, kami??, dorvae?, etc.) <shrug>

theWasp wrote:

Ooh, how many Outer Gods are in the appendix?

The is a small handful of the Outer Gods.

Azathoth, Nyralethotep, Yog-Shoggoth
Hastur who is ascending from Great Old One to Outer God.
Xhamador.

Sorry for the miss spelling, at work and don't have my book with me.

Thank you.

...

No Shub-Niggurath or Nhimbaloth?
:(

The Penecontemporaneous One wrote:

Tangential question; will rules for Neutral Champions be in Gods and Magic?

Thanks tons - looking very much forward to this book, regardless!

Nope.

However, by having the edicts/tenets(?) & anathema of several neutrally-aligned deities in the book, it future-proofs for when neutral champions are finally printed, so there's that, at least.

Hmm...

I don't think Archons & Azatas are considered "secondary" celestials -- some are already in the first Bestiary (2E), so...

??

It could also be read that the Rahadoumi universities are as famous as they are given both their relative progressiveness and permissiveness with regards to the rest of Rahadoum.
(The text in the LOWG is quite neutral in its presentation of Rahadoum though, thereby allowing for a number of different takes on the nation. I do think that 'fascist' might be just a little extreme of a view. [An AP in the region to solidify which is the one Paizo wants to run with, but until then...])

??!

Wait -- didn't Arazni become an astral deva* after her pre-herald death & not an azata? Has this been changed?

All these [admittedly] little retcons are starting to pile up & getting hard to follow... :(

<sigh>

...<edit>Ninja'ed!
(Removes overly detailed response.)

Kasoh's reply above nicely summarises & includes the most salient points of the event - so use that.

I will add that the barrier/veil between the Material & other planes had always been a little thin in the old Sarkoris region (probably one reason for all the eidolons worshipped there) & that Deskari had once been active there before being driven off & banished from Golarion by Aroden.

In the paragraph below the Tempest Sun Mage picture:

Did you mean Prerequisite?

Because a Perquisite is "a benefit which one enjoys or is entitled to on account of one's job or position.", i.e. a perk.

It is not "something that is required as a prior condition for something else to happen or exist." (Which is a prerequisite, i.e. a requirement before one can enjoy the perks - as the case may be.)

Ancient Red dragons are gargantuan in size, aren't they? I mean, ancient Gold and Silver are gargantuan, as well as Ancient Green... Red dragons are supposed to be the largest of their kind.

Yes. The size of the ancient Red Dragon has been acknowledged to be an error (in the Bestiary 1 thread iirc). I think the same for the ancient Blue Dragon, but I'm not so sure on that one.

^ I'm pretty sure that Rovagug has been confirmed as a top tier Qlippoth.

& Pharasma is pretty much the

Your point (in that the two of them "Always were?") effectively still stands though!

No problem. :)

Thanks for your hard work in collating all of the prestige classes together!

Nice!

Two things:

*Thuvian Alchemist should be in the Golden Road region as they're from Thuvia (where the Elixir of Immortality is made);

*Ulfen Guard are probably more likely from the Shining Kingdoms region as they're the elite bodyguards of the Prince(ess) of Taldor.

...

Isn't the Eye of Dread region southwest of the Broken Lands region?

??

Unfortunately...

Sure!

Other galaxies name-dropped in People of the Stars (p.21) are:
the ruby-tinged Dragon Galaxy, the pincered Crab, & the two-armed Swirling Eye (as well as the aforementioned Milk Spiral).

Also, the same book confirms that "Golarion's own galaxy is observable with the naked eye as a dense band of bright stars slightly offset from the plane of the ecliptic" (p.21).
So, it's very unlikely that Golarion's galaxy is anything but a spiral galaxy (although, there are a number of varieties of such!), which the Magellanic Clouds are not...

That's about it regarding Golarion & galaxies.
(Opsylum has already listed the various names by which different cultures - not identified - refer to Golarion's galaxy.)

So, yeah.

Distant world mentioned a name for the milky way, but I don't know if they had a name for their own.

<snip>

Also in People of the Stars, reference is made to the Milk Spiral, i.e. the Milky Way, as one of the galaxies (among others named) that can be seen in Golarion's skies.

As for the name of Golarion's galaxy:
Opsylum's list is pretty comprehensive...

& That's about it.

It doesn't really help in mapping it to any RW galaxies, although the fact that our galaxy (as seen from Golarion's night sky) is clearly a spiral implies that the Milky Way is head-on to theirs, i.e. top/bottom facing rather than side-facing (or even possibly oblique, like Andromeda is to ours, although that doesn't necessarily mean that Golarion's galaxy is Andromeda - angles & such).

Well, both Nex & Geb were also originally provinces in Ancient Osirion (Alkenstar hadn't existed then), so it's not that big a stretch...

I'm not disagreeing with your original premise or with the fact that different regions do have their own naming conventions & so would have different names for the same deity.

However, that is not how it was handled in Pathfinder 1E (for the most part).

Perhaps it'll be different in 2E?

<shrug>

Gods can be interpreted differently depending on culture. In the Forgotten Realms, Lathander and Amanautor are respectively the Neutral Good and Lawful Neutral aspects of the same Lawful Good sun god, each with their own cults and followers. So in Golarion, I would expect something similar for the same god in different pantheons. Dwarves who worship Abadar for instance might give him a different name and consider him a member of the dwarven pantheon, tying many of his deeds with those of Torag, while those in Tian Xia might see Abadar as a member of the Heavenly Court and call him by his Tien name.

Abadar is still called Abadar in Tian Xia. The only thing that's changed is his epithet/title: in Tian Xia, he is the God of Walls & Ditches. The same is true for Desna (the Resplendent Goddess of Fortune, the Goddess of the North Star), Pharasma (Mother of Souls), Lamashtu (Grandmother Nightmare), Irori (Iro-Shu*, the Enlightened One), and Shelyn (The Lady of Chrysanthemums). Also, all evidence (at least, in PF1) seems to indicate that this is the case in other regions of Golarion (deity names & symbols don't change, but epithets do, & their areas of concerns may be tweaked).

Not particularly realistic nor something that works for everyone, but that is how it has been handled in Pathfinder.

It is possible that things could change in 2E!
However, it's also very unlikely...

If I 've missed any other deity that is known by a different name (not just a variant spelling) in PF1, let me know!

<edit> Oh! I forgot about Zon-Kuthon, who was known as Dou-Bral before his change. But really, the two names practically represent two different deities (& there are also curious hints scattered about that seem to imply that they may not even be the same deity!).

^ Isn't Belkzen more or less where ancient Gastash used to be (or most of it)? That could give Zutha orc armies (perhaps) but also mean that he may have to face off against the Iomedaen crusaders in Lastwall...

Seventh Seal wrote:

Zum-Graat wrote:

Awahoon wrote:

Respect for the Gods of other cultures, I can see why people respect that, I would never use or touch the Rainbow serpent for example or other good-natured spiritual monsters

This seems to be Paizo's position as well. I've been rereading Bestiary 1 recently and noticed that all Empyreal Lords listed there (in archon and azata sections) are real mythological figures, including some culture heroes like Atonga or deities from still existing religions (like some Orisha and Buddhist entities). But then you have more modern sources that list a lot of Empyreal Lords, like "Chronicles of the Righteous" and almost all of them are made-up from scratch.

I wonder if all those "real" Empyreal Lords were retconned out of existence due to the sensitivity of the subject.

Well... I wouldn't say all of them. Cernunnos is a notable example of a real-world mythological figure - with an entry in one of the Bestiaries, too!

As for the rest... <shrug>

Cernunnos however, isn't a God people still worship. Kali and others are.

...

<sigh>

There really are people that still DO worship him as a deity-figure in their belief system -- and sincerely at that!
(I know a few personally, and they're part of a much more widespread group than you may realise.)

Just because the worship of Cernunnos (or that of other deities) is neither as "organised" nor as prominent as those of the Abrahamic religions, the main Eastern spiritual philosophies, and the complex & variable faiths of the Indian subcontinent (not to mention the more animist beliefs of various cultures that continue to retain much of their ancient traditions) does not invalidate it.

. . . . .

Also, by your logic (that Cernunnos "isn't a god people still worship" --> it's fine to include him as a Bestiary entry), there is no reason for Paizo to move away from the real-world mythological figures as empyreal lords since they're in the same 'category' as Cernunnos, i.e. "aren't gods people still worship" (which isn't necessarily true!).

. . . . .

Now, to be clear, while your statement may not be seen by some as particularly sensitive to the beliefs of others, I don't believe you meant any harm by it.
(My mention of Cernunnos being used as an Empyreal Lord in Pathfinder was not meant as a reproach, but I apologise if it was seen in that way.)
However, as religion & the belief (or lack thereof) in deity is a sensitive topic for many people, perhaps we should leave this line of discussion here?
Although, if you really want to put in a last word on it, go ahead. I think I'll bow out.

. . . . .

Back on topic:
I really love the care to detail on the wings of the sphinx!
Are there any pieces of art in the Bestiary that you feel are really well-done (even if they aren't necessarily what you may've envisioned for the particular creature)?

Awahoon wrote:

Respect for the Gods of other cultures, I can see why people respect that, I would never use or touch the Rainbow serpent for example or other good-natured spiritual monsters

This seems to be Paizo's position as well. I've been rereading Bestiary 1 recently and noticed that all Empyreal Lords listed there (in archon and azata sections) are real mythological figures, including some culture heroes like Atonga or deities from still existing religions (like some Orisha and Buddhist entities). But then you have more modern sources that list a lot of Empyreal Lords, like "Chronicles of the Righteous" and almost all of them are made-up from scratch.

I wonder if all those "real" Empyreal Lords were retconned out of existence due to the sensitivity of the subject.

Well... I wouldn't say all of them. Cernunnos is a notable example of a real-world mythological figure - with an entry in one of the Bestiaries, too!

As for the rest... <shrug>

Theriocephalus wrote:

Honestly, the nymph-as-its-own-distinct-species thing always seemed to me to be like saying that, well, you've got chromatic dragons, and then you've got red dragons, and that these are distinct and separate, if somewhat similar, species.

Elves are a distinct species that can reproduce with humans and have fertile offspring with them. It's probably best not to think too hard about such things in fantasy settings.

What you're describing really isn't the same thing that Theriocephalus is talking about...

(Elves were never just another type of human in mythology or folklore. Dryads are another type of nymph in mythology, just as red dragons are just another type of chromatic dragon in the game. 'Species' wasn't really the topic/focus of the post. However, it was perhaps not the best term to use -- as you yourself have pointed out.)