Kalaam's page

Exactly. Could even dual wield with it too anyway. Staff and rapier or something can work nicely with Twisting Tree.

You can't actually use Sure Strike while a staff is fused into a weapon, since it's not a spell elligible for spellstrike (though You can just shift a spellstriker staff into a weapon instead and still cast)

On the matter of a focus spell that only recharge spellstrike, I'd like to suggest once again the option of sacrificing your Arcane Cascade to recharge Spellstrike as a free action, the same way a Barbarian can end their Rage to squeeze out some extra damage.
This makes Arcane Cascade more useful overall as an extra "emergency" recharge that you load preemptively on top of its other benefits AND it is an opportunity cost to end it so it isn't a complete no brainer.

It also makes feats like Capture Magic more appealing since getting into Cascade as a reaction instead of an action to recharge a spellstrike afterward can make fights against spellcaster feel pretty good and dynamic.
Arcane Cascade is the thing to expand on to smooth out *some* of the clunk of magus and make it so you don't FIGHT the action economy but PLAY with it instead.

I also aggree that more Conflux Spells to have more options (other than damage) would be nice. Also reminder that Conflux Spells (aka Magus' specific Focus Spells) recharge spellstrike as part of their effect, which no other focus spells you grab from other classes can do.
So some Conflux Spells with additional utilities will always be welcomed in my eyes.

I can understand that but if it was a feat it'd just be a must have.
It's the most straightforwadly good focus spell that magus has because it answers the issue of moving into position directly. Solving your action economy.
Other hybrid studies focus spells could answer it in other ways, Sparkling Targe does it by letting you raise your shield, strike and recharge, leaving you an action to move into position, maybe even two, and one to do whatever you'd need.
Starlit Span doesn't suffer from the action economy so its focus spell is fine not being as universally useful.
Inexorable Iron is thematically cool but unpractical. Only doing a very useful effect when ennemies crit fail their save (so you need Int with this subclass but not the others) but if you make it work from a normal fail, it becomes even more unpractical to use with other melee partners. (Could have the option of making it a line, or change it into growing your weapon so massive that you make a strike at 15ft of range, increasing with spell rank. Circumventing having to move right away)

More conflux spells within the feats is also cool, as once again: Magus needs more/better feats within its own class. (I should do a full on tier list lol)

To be honest Bladed Assault was one of the coolest spells to use with a Magus in 1e. Dimensional Assault kind of fills this niche.

It's funny 'cause magus archetype does have a feat to get a conflux spell from any hybrid study.
Though let's be honest, if it was an option for all magi, everyone would take Dimensional Assault, it is just too useful.

I'd rather improve existing ones that lag behind and give other options for action flexibility, either each study gives a few actions that can recharge on a success (like a successful feint or disarm on laughing shadow, successful shove or trip on inexorable iron, grapple or trip or disarm on unfurling, tumble through on aloof firmament etc etc), maybe under the condition of being in arcane cascade for balance.

And outside of the class itself: more spells compatible with it please. With some interresting effects aside from just damage. I love winter bolt's taking away actions, or fire ray potentially forcing an ennemy to move. It's super cool !

Yes the base chassis of Magus is solid and there are good feats and features to choose from.

There is some tho that do feel undercooked or concepts that could be built upon (arcane cascade)

You can but it offers nothing unique to the class itself. There could be more to the gish class than a single magic strike.

It could have a flourish strike that inflicts a penalty to saves against spells for a round on a hit for example, more ways to be a magical warrior and devellop the martial side while still retaining synergy with the overall kit.

Exemplar doesn't need to take an archetype to get more striking options for example.

As always, magus' issue is that it needs more and better feats to select from within its class lol.
When I say "issues" ofc I don't mean the class is unplayable or bad

And yeah some studies do need tweaks 'cause they are definitely undertuned, though it's not necesseraly that easy to find an interresting, useful and flavorful conflux spell for all.
Like what could Inexorable Iron have ? The idea of a shockwave AoE while using a big weapon IS cool. But it's also unpractical. Maybe give a choice of line or cone AoE so it's easier to aim ? Maybe make it inflict deafened on a fail since it's sonic damage. Plays into the "anti mage" aspect that magus can embody. Plus a line can give you the reach to compensate for movement.
The tempHP per round is honestly not bad, as long as you're frontlining it's essentially a constant fast healing.
The spellstrike upgrade tho, yeah, it's pretty bad. I'd rather have the potential prone effect be on that, like the target and any ennemy adjacent to it must succeed a fortitude save against your spell DC or be knocked prone. It fits the idea of spellstriking with a big two-hander.

Sparkling Targe honestly i wouldn't change, it's basic but it is extremely reliable. Maybe a feat upgrade to add in a shove with the shield at most.

And again: more options for strikes other than spellstrike upgrades please.

Wonder how Magus would work then for balance or spell selection then.

I concur, magus shouldn't be a one trick pony and you should have room to decide if you wanna be a spellstrike machine with only one spell for it (likely a focus spell) and your few slots to cover fringe cases or some buffs/utility or if you want to be a more flexible battlemage.

Which is *one* reason why I wouldn't be that against losing some power in Spellstrike (for example by removing the compatibility with Focus Spells) to give a bit more flexibility/options elsewhere within the class itself. (more strike options as feats outside of spellstrike to support other way to play it, expanding on Arcane Cascade, etc)

Maybe but that's kind of what the cantrips are for.
The point of the limited slots of the magus is to put a limit on their nova ability daily. If it's that easy to get a renewable one it defeats the original design, which at this point the class has to be redone from the beginning.

I'd rather have more options within normal spells so that focus ones aren't so appealing

Maybe Sure Strike could be like the Devise a Stratagem action instead. Even works with the name lol. Roll a d20, this is the result of your next attack action this turn. Straight up.

It may step a bit on Investigator's turf but Investigators can do it infinitely, as a free action, and use intelligence instead of a physical modifier for it.

Yeah JiCi, the penalty thing is a suggestion I'm making so using save spells is still a valid option for magus.

Kalaam wrote:

It's just a bit weird to make a weapon strike targetting a save DC though. Like narratively how do you explain it ? It also means that an ennemy wouldn't be able to use a shield or other similar bonuses to protect themselves. It is a bit awkward in that regard I feel.

Narratively, you first have to successfully hit with your Strike to deliver the spell infused in it (so an enemy with a shield raised would be able to mitigate the Spellstrike by making the attack miss), but after the hit, the spell basically affects you as if you were saving against it, it's just that the accuracy of the Strike is what would determine how well it goes against your defenses. It's not just that you learn spells and Strikes independently, your technique with your weapons, the precision or brute force you develop as part of your martial training, would directly affect your ability to bypass or overpower an opponent's magical defenses.

But then why would off-guard, or circumstance bonuses to AC like shields etc not be of any use to defend against it or make it more likely ?

The shadow signet, for example, explains it as your attack spell warping through the Netherworld/shadowplane and popping out inside/right in front of the ennemy, targetting their ability to reflexively avoid it or if their body can resist it so you target Reflex of Fortitude DC.

I don't see spellstrike having the ability to make your weapon intangible being written in.
Could be a special spellstrike feat though, this could work.

True this might work.
Essentially building in something similar to the Shadow Signet ring in some way.

It's just a bit weird to make a weapon strike targetting a save DC though. Like narratively how do you explain it ? It also means that an ennemy wouldn't be able to use a shield or other similar bonuses to protect themselves. It is a bit awkward in that regard I feel.

Essentially treating Spellstrike like Channel Smite.

The issue is that it could easily be way too powerful with some spells.
It's fine with Channel Smite because it's limited to two spells (Harm/Heal) that are just damage.

Imagine on spells like Slow. It's much easier to stack up bonuses to hit/penalties to AC than it is to saves.

For example:
Level 10 Magus. +5 (modifier) +2 (weapon) +4 (expert) +10 (level)= +21 to hit baseline.

Ennemy is off-guard(+2 to hit), you are under Heroism (+2), and have been successfully frightened 2 (+2). You have a total of +27 to hit.

The situational bonuses are essentially a +6.

A level 11 creature can have up to 33 AC. That's inflicting Slowed 1 for a minute on a 6. Slowed 2 for a minute on a 16.

This becomes much, much harder to balance save spells around because you'd have to consider "okay but is it balanced if a magus replaces the save by a weapon attack roll" which either results in save spells being nerfed going forward. Or untouched and Magus becomes truly too powerful.

There is a middleground to be found I'm sure. I personnaly would like that a successful hit inflicts a status or circumstance penalty to the save (-2 ont a hit, -3 on a crit maybe?).
Or like with disintegrate, a critical hit reduces the result of the save.

I also think allowing non-AoE save spells in basic spellstrike would be nice too (stuff like Thunderstrike, Frostbite etc). And have Expansive Spellstrike (aka Spell Combat 2e) include AoE or even buff spells to cast on yourself while attacking.

Now, between something like that and just more Attack spells with interresting effects (please do just give us Fire Ray and Winter Bolt as ranked spells, those are very good designs) we'd eat very good already.

Still would be down to redistribute some of the class' "power budget" so to speak so it can do more than just Spellstrike, or give more action economy tool (Recycle Cascade, please, I swear I'm sure it's a good idea believe me)

The way to fix it is to add more spells to choose from then.
A lot of Focus Spells like Fire Ray and Winter Bolt would be incredible as ranked spells for magus. We need more of that kind.

The issue is that Magus is considered by most to be the only caster who cares about attack spells and that's not worth adding more of those if only one class can make use of them (which is BS but that's the sentiment I see around).

Removing all flavor from the feature is not a solution, this'll just make the issue of "every magus is also a psychic" even worse.
Plus one of the appeal/idea of the magus is also to be able to exploit vulnerabilities very easily with an array of elemental spellstrikes and then cascade, so their strikes can proc it. (though it'd be nice if they had more variety of strikes within the class to lean onto this aspect)

So yeah, the difference is: more choices is better than no choice. Even if we do aggree the amount of choice is pretty limited right now.
There is like 20 attack spells (cantrips included) that Magus has access to on the Arcane List. And almost all are rank 4 or lower with only Disintegrate at rank 6 and Polar Ray at 8th.
So yes there's an issue of variety of choices for that aspect.

"Misleading name"... That's a "misleading rule" O_o

This is NOT Spellstrike 2.0 but a different set of actions altogether.

What you described is essentially what those elven Blade Singers could do back in D&D :O

Well that's the same thing. Either the name isn't fitting or the rule/ability doesn't fit the name lol.

Easiest way is just make spellstrike a damage ability. You do X damage when spellstriking at a given level. If you burn a spell slot, it increases it to y damage, if you use a focus point… etc etc etc.

Yeah no I'd like Spellstrike to be more than just 5e Divine/Eldritch Smite please.

Expansive Spellstrike is a misleading name.
It's actually 2e's Spell Combat: you compress action to cast a save spell and attack for 2 action instead of 3. If you crit fail, the spell is lost, if you fail the attack, the spell goes off. Then you use a 3rd action sometime later to recharge spellstrike.

The action cost is the same in the end, just made flexible with downpayments lol.

Taking Expansive Spellstrikes doesn't mean to use all of your save spells like fireball, breathe fire, slow, arctic rift etc with it. If during a round you do not need to move: just strike and cast the spells as 3 actions and keep Spellstrike ready for when you'll need it.

Now, i'd would actually like if it had the additional benefit of inflicting a save penalty on a hit or critical hit with the strike, as a way for Magus to catch up with the DC of full casters (if only on their primary target). But if not... I'd be down to rename the feat Spell Combat or Spell Fencing or whatever and let you use *any* spell with it and have the spell target any valid target for it. You're not Spellstriking the spell, you use an altered version of this ability to compress your action economy, but have to recharge spellstrike afterward anyway.
You could Spell Combat: Strike, Haste, Move. Or Strike, Buff/Heal/whatever, strike/move, recall knowledge.

With War of Immortal out I see it highlighting some of those issues again.

I don't think any mythic destiny or mythic feat particularly mixes with Magus (Summoner and Kineticist apparently too)

I gave a look at two specifically, Eternal Legend and Wildspell and well it's a bit frustrating.
Not that the book is bad, it's very good. And I know planning every/several destinies' feats to fit in with every classes would be a mythical undertaking (lol).

Wildspell has several cool options, but since spellshapes don't work some aren't usable. It's still a very good choice however, some of the stuff especially the ability to recharge spell slots in endgame is super darn cool.

Legend is also very nice to extend the martial aspect, while it will never interract with the Magus' main features in itself, having more options for strikes is always welcomed. I wish the level 10 Mythic Strike feat gave the choice of either doing the described attack with bonus damage, or to empower your next Strike/attack action to be at mythic proficiency instead, so more classes could use it with attacks that are specific to them.

Thankfully we got one very flavorful Mythic Spell attack with Banishing Touch, very DBZ flick vibe and that's epic as all hells.

I mean Winter Bolt on Aloof Magus can spellstrike and immediately jump away pretty far for example, which is kind of funny.

But yeah it would be unreasonable to balance all focus spells around magus being able to get access to them, they are to be balanced for their original class, not for Magus.

It'd make more sense to adjust stuff within magus regarding its very strong synergy with attack focus spells (like creating similar slotted spells, what about that?).
So either banning focus spells outright (the simplest more "sucky" solution)
Or making more features accross subclasses work with stuff other than cantrip/focus spells, but it then makes them way more limited and should be more powerful to compensate, but will it ever be as good as using your spell slots/staff charges for buff and control and a focus spell to nova ? I don't know.

At 2nd level you can still get a pretty good focus spells for utility from psychic dedication so it's not like it's wasted either. Amped Shield is pretty good in a pinch for example, and amped figment can provide flanking for a sustain action.

Focus spells on spellstrike are sadly a bit too good.

Yeah don't worry nobody is like "magus should be able to cast two 2actions spells a round".

Expansive Spellstrike should be seen as Spell Combat: you strike with one hand and cast the spell with the other but the spell doesn't really come off your weapon, that's why on a miss the target can still get affected by the spell.
Treating the hit result as the save would be cool but likely WAY too strong on some spells. Like if you hit a strike with slow, that's slowed 1 for 1 minute. That's extremely powerful.
Clerics can afford to have this functionality in Channel Smite because it is locked to two spells and the only thing it does is simple damage.

Something that might be more balanced would be that on a hit, the main target gets a penalty on their save (like -1, -2 on a crit) to kind of get closer to the saves of a full caster.

One thing you might have misunderstood as "casting more spells" is just the idea of more efficiently mixing spells and attacks.
Spellstrike allows this, but since it counts as 2 attacks you can't really do another strike afterward, the only ability that allows you to do this is Cascading Ray, which uses the same MAP as the Spellstrike but as a spell attack roll will usually be at -3 to -5 because your spell attack mod is lower. Effectively being a ranged agile attack.

Not necesseraly, those are two ideas that have been proposed and even the "multiple spells per round" hasn't be considered seriously even lol

I'd say mainly we wish for Arcane Cascade to be more flexible or impactful.
And for the spellblade fantasy and mixing of sword and sorcery to be mechanically more than spellstrike.

It's true that Imaginary Weapon also is one of the earlier most consistent spells for Spell Swipe lol.

It's just funny how absolutely perfect of a fit for magus this spell is.
If it wasn't a focus spell and was just like, a 1st rank attack spell, it'd be a no brainer like Shocking Grasp in 1e.

Kalaam wrote:

Tbh I really like the visual, mechanical concept of Winter Bolt. It sounds so cool. Too bad you have to be religious to get it lol

Though I guess if you really wanna invest to get those two focus spells you could like... dip into storm oracle and then into champion of a fire deity ?
Plus storm oracle gets Charged Javelin, can be neat.

I want to use that spell too, but the gods its attached to are hard to find a good reason to follow.

Could always get Tempest Oracle dedication and get the Domain Acumen feat !

Deriven Firelion wrote:

But this is the ice domain. None of the gods felt right to me. I especially did not greatly care for their edicts and anathema.

Be nice to be able to access domains without needing a deity.

I'd actually expand this to:

Be nice to be able to access good focus spells to spellstrike with within the magus class.

Why must you go to psychic, cleric or oracle to get such a direct upgrade to something that is core to your class?

In a way the reason, I think, is twofold:

Which kind of goes back to the discussion of inconsistency in rulings within the class with some abilities working with any spells, some only with non-cantrips, some with spell slots ONLY, some with everything except cantrip and focus spells. It should get cleared up overall.
If we straight up lose spellstriking focus spells to get more fun feats and stuff to compensate i'd be fine with it (though yeah the image of winter bolt spellstrike being lost would be sad, please paizo create variant of all the cool attack focus spells into actual spells thank you)
Funny thing is, if that happens you could still use the cantrip version of Imaginary Weapon lol, which wouldn't be as contentious since there is other cantrips with similar damage. (but doing Carian Sword Sorcery is epic so I won't complain)

Teridax wrote:

I think in general there's a lot of untapped potential for the Magus to fulfil more aspects of the spellblade fantasy: to me at least, a spellblade combines spell and blade (obviously), but those spells include powerful curses as well as infusions of flame, ice, and other damaging effects.

Me personally, my idea of the Spellblade is the Mystic Knight/Spell Fencer from Final Fantasy and it's Sword Magic.

Actually, a neat ability to give Magus (probably as a Class Archetype) would be the power infuse their strikes with various types of damages or status effects. Call it something like 'Infused Strike'?

Another neat idea could be something similar to Dual techs from Chrono Trigger, where a friendly caster can 'lend' their spell to a Magus's Spellstrike. Although this one might be rather niche.

Technically you can do it with Expansive Spellstrike, just that it's on a singular strike.

Having Capture Magic letting you capture some of the effect of an allied spellcaster would be dope tho, technically you can if you succeed a save within the AoE of an ally. But something like a reaction to make a strike on an ennemy within your reach when they are targetted by an ally's spell, with additional damage equal to the spell's rank, would be very, very, very cool.

I aggree. In 1e this was mostly covered by spell combat, allowing you to mix doing your full attacks AND casting any spell in one turn. In 2e it's something everyone can do baseline.
Expansive Spellstrike is essentially it (which is why I often call it Spell Combat lol) you can cast other types of spells while making a strike. But since you still end up at -10 MAP so you can't do something like Spellstrike (aka SpellCombat) Breathe Fire and do a second strike at -5/-4. Which would be something pretty unique to Magus.

That's honestly a bit why I'd like to nerf spellstrike a bit to developp the fantasy on other aspects by reallocating some of the "power budget".
This could be by removing the ability to spellstrike focus spells (though I have to say, after discovering Winter Bolt, the visual of it really sticks in my head. That's why I wish we had more attack spells like that as ranked spells dammit!)

This already should give some wiggle room to adjust other things, might remove the increased MAP of Spellstrike when using save spells, or have a level 8 or so feat (Focused Spellstrike: When doing a spellstrike, it only counts as 1 attack for your MAP) like for Vicious Swing.

Could adjust the recharge mechanic, maybe giving an action based on your subclass that can allow to recharge while under arcane cascade, similarly to swashbuckler and panache (Successful Feint or Diversion for Laughing Shadow, Successful Shove/Intimidation for Inexorable Iron, Trip/Recall knowledge for Twisting tree, Grapple/Trip for Unfurling Brocade, Hide/Diversion for Starlit Span, Tumble Through/Long Jump for the wuxia jumpy one I forget the name of)
Or have feats for that like I suggested earlier, in the vein of Magus Analysis.

Could have more things to do with Arcane Cascade, working from stuff like Cascading Ray which I REALLY like, essentially a 2nd attack against another target at range at a -4 penalty after a spellstrike with decent damage scaling.

Tbh I really like the visual, mechanical concept of Winter Bolt. It sounds so cool. Too bad you have to be religious to get it lol

Though I guess if you really wanna invest to get those two focus spells you could like... dip into storm oracle and then into champion of a fire deity ?
Plus storm oracle gets Charged Javelin, can be neat.

I'm seeing stuff being discussed about examplar dedication and I'm like "damn and here we are worrying about making magus too good" lol

My opinion, reduced to a quippy one-liner: I don't want Magus to be a subclass of Psychic.

Essentially, yeah.

Even if using a focus point for damage over recharging I feel like over a full day of adventuring this'll often be more worthwhile to be able to have a renewable nuke.

The investment is honestly pretty light because magus doesn't have much competing against it. And it feels a bit off that something so perfectly fitting is outside of the class itself. It's a bit weird that "all magi are also psychic" so to speak.

As said, it is neither classe's fault, it's just bound to happen sometime.
But I do think some of the magus' chassis (or rather some of the piece that go on it) might need tweaking so it's not such a nobrainer.

The skill actionrecharcges I suggested wouldn't be balanced if you can still spellstrike focus spells for example, because then you have even less reasons to use your Conflux Spells for action compression.

Oh I didn't catch that it'd work like that. This would indeed be very powerful especially against solo bosses.
I can get behind that. Very potent but locked to a single target.

And yeah I think Magus needs more ways of blending magic to enhance "martial" actions. Other than just spells that anyone has access to.
Kind of like how Monk can enhance their martial abilities with Qi stuff, or special manoeuvers.
Same with Barbarian, being in Rage increases their abilities in more ways than just a big flat damage bonus (faster move speed, lower athletic DC, better grappling...) as some examples.

In a way that's the thing a bit missing on how Magus benefits from archetypes.
Magic ones work well because it has the tools to blend Magic into its Martial side.
But there is little to no ways of blending your Martial abilities into your magical ones if that makes sense. The only one is Spellstrike.

Having more skill related Recharges like Magus Analysis would be great.
Random ideas:
Cascading Knockdown: Make an athletic check to trip an ennemy. On a success they suffer your Arcane Cascade damage on top of a successful trip, and you recharge your spellstrike. On a critical, you can change the normal damage of it to the same type of damage of your arcane cascade on top of its bonus damage (so a crit trip deals 1D6+1 Force damage for example). The target is then immune to Cascading Knockdown for 1 minute.
If you are wielding a weapon with two hands, you can ignore the free hand requirement to trip.

Cascading Display: Attempt a to Demoralize a target, adding flair from your arcane cascade to magically appear more threatening and recharge in peace. On a success, you also Recharge your Spellstrike. The target is then immune to Cascading Display for 10 minutes.

You know, some stuff like that to allow you to do more things.

I also understand your idea above, but it might lock Magus too hard into having to keep a high Int, which might be restrictive to make them this MAD.

I'm uncertain about the feature of Spellstrike itself changing as you level up.

The idea of reversing the take on Studious Spell is interresting though. Essentially taking a page out of warpriest and healing/harming font in a way. It might work but have them 2 rank lowers might not make them that much better than cantrips or focus spells.

I did think of something like that before, where Magus has more slots (essentially 1 per rank and 2 of their highest or something) but can only spellstrike with additional slots gotten from a feature like "Striking Spells" which gives you X slots of your highest/2 highest ranks to load eligible spells in that can only be used for spellstrike.
It feels a bit too convoluted though.

And I don't think getting more spells is that much of an issue anyway.
Between Rings of Wizardry, staves, wands and scrolls a Magus can get all the utility spells they need fairly easily. A lot of buffs could even be made into relatively cheap scrolls past a certain level, or a custom staff (Call it the "Battlemage staff" in which there is only buff spells like Haste, Resist Energy, Draw the Lightning, Blazing Armory etc)

If we removed the ability to spellstrike focus spells, then immediately slotted spells will feel way more desirable for it. Then it's a matter of sanding down the edges of features that require those specifically (personnaly I'm in favor of removing that restriction or giving a weaker effect when used with cantrips)

Maybe opening Spellstrike to direct damage spells that require a target (including save spells like Thunderstrike, Impaling Spike etc for example) to have more options baked in and have a successful hit inflict a penalty on the save against that spell (either as base or as an effect of Expansive Spellstrike, which would still open up Area of Effect spells like Breathe Fire, Arctic Rift, Fireball... and status spells like Slow, Sleep, etc)

Or divert some power from Spellstrike into other features unique to Magus, namely Arcane Cascade. Either, like I suggested prior, by giving it another utility in the form of a Free Action to end it and recharge Spellstrike (that way you can play with the action econmy rather than wrestling with it) and adding more attacks requiring to be in that stance so it can be a potential tradeoff.
Like strikes that reduce resistances by your level or half your level, or a strike that inflicts a status penalty to saves against spells for a round so you can either set up your own save spells or that of allied spellcasters.

It kind of feels like in order to "buff" magus you'd have to nerf spellstrike by making it incompatible with focus spells, as the simplest way or removing this design issue. But then how to make spell slots worthwhile for spellstrike instead of more versatile spells like the ones mentionned above ?
Or should power come from other places in the chassis like arcane cascade or new martial leaning actions (special strikes etc)

Trip.H, this is what i'm saying. Those slots mechanically are often better used for stuff other than spellstrike, which makes the features that require a spell slot to be used on spellstrike feel clunky and kind of useless.
I am not saying Magus should get more spell slots.

Magus' strike alteration is kind of limited to Spellstrike itself though. It has some feats altering it but no other ways to do unique strike actions, which is kind of a shame, there is untapped potential on the gish aspect in there. Stuff similar to some of the Eldritch Archer special shots.

I think leaving the choice to the player is a super important part of the design.

There are plenty of features, like Dangerous Sorcery, that are restricted to spells cast from your (sorcerer) spell slots.

Magus could have limited Spellstrike in the same way, but choose to allow all forms/sources of cast a spell.

I aggree but that's why there is complaints about some feats and features being restricted to using slots for spellstrikes in order to benefit from them.

On top of that focus spells tends to be better for damage it seems, they have similar if not straight up better damage than ranked attack spells and are a renewable ressource.
That could be addressed in the future with the addition of more attack spells ofc.

Getting top R spells also is a necessity because of how spell damage scales with rank and not character level in 2e compared to 1e. If Magus lagged behind the basic mechanic of Spellstrike wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is now.
I aggree that it's great that it gets those spells as a martial.
Then the question is: what are they meant to be used for, buff or spellstrike. Lots of class features/feat seem to say "well, spellstrike obviously!" stuff like Double Spellstrike as a core feature. Though I guess you could argue that it also helps having both, since with it you can have 2 buffs/utility and 2 attack spells, and it turns your attack spells into 4, if used well.

It'd likely be way more simple to manage as a spontaneous caster, which makes me wonder if that may be why we haven't seen an eldritch scion class archetype for Magus yet.

I'll throw my hat into the ring here.

About Action Economy and Arcane Cascade :

I do think Arcane Cascade is generally not very impactful and underutilized. Some hybrid studies barely benefit from it and it's hard to justify the action sometimes.
It would be nice to give it a better value, maybe by having other actions requiring to being in the stance, special attacks and all kind of like Cascading Ray. Supportive abilities exclusive to the magus in that way, like a 2 actions strike that inflicts a penalty to saves against spells on a hit or crit for a round.

But one baseline change I'd like to suggest to Arcane Cascade is a free action, call it "Cascade Recycling": As a free action, end Arcane Cascade and Recharge your Spellstrike.

This could help a bit the action economy, at a cost and make Arcane Cascade feel more like an investment into your future rounds when you need it. Maybe limit it to once per 10 minute if need be.

Regarding Spell Slots and Attack Spells

I too find it dissonant how some feats or features REQUIRE to use a spell slot exclusively (which you get 7 of total including studious spells, without multiclassing. 10 with a ring of wizardry) in order to be used.
What feels weird is that it is inconsistent between Hybrid Studies:
Inexorable Iron can heal itself for 16-18 Hp four times at high level and that's it. Why not have the effect be weaker on cantrips ? Just the spell rank, or half the spell rank for example.
Meanwhile Twisting tree only requires the spell not not be a cantrip or a focus spell, so it can benefit from staves for example.
I do not think that Magus necesseraly needs more slots, but abilities that rely on them should be made more consistent accross all Hybdrid Studies. Plus it might help clear up the conflicting ideas between "should the limited slots be meant for spellstriking or for buffing and support"

As for Attack Spell, getting more of those overall would be very nice I think.
But maybe something about Save spells could be done too, at least for targetted spell that inflict damage (not sure how to denominate them. Non-Area damaging spells ?) would be to allow them with spellstrike to begin with to expand options a bit.
But my main suggestion might be: on a hit or critical hit with the Strike portion of the spell: the target has a penalty to the save against the spell. -1 on hit, -2 on crit maybe but this would help out making it just as viable of an option as attack spells.
Having the target auto-fail on a hit, like Channel Smite, would likely be too powerful (maybe locking this behind a high level feat and a daily restriction ?)

Kalaam wrote:

I really wish SoT would get some too, so Summoner and Magus get get a bit of polish pass. But given all the lore of magic that'd need rewriting that...would be a lot of work

G&G was out of print. SoM is not yet. That's probably the main factor TBH.

Will it ever ? I guess I have to order a dozen copies lol

I really wish SoT would get some too, so Summoner and Magus get get a bit of polish pass. But given all the lore of magic that'd need rewriting that...would be a lot of work

Gisher wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

...

They could make Arcane Cascade more clear for those who read it as a problematic feature to trigger. The magus doesn't need much work.
...

The rules for remaining in Arcade Cascade were obviously confusing (thankfully that was fixed in the remaster errata), but what was the confusion about entering the stance?

Remaining in the stance is the problem I'm talking about. Some were claiming the trigger prevented continuous of the stance.

Those were mostly memey or bad faith arguments because of the wording of the stance.

Kalaam wrote:

Yeah I am questioning that as well. It is pretty clear, just clunky.

I'm expecting that the answer is 'no', but...

Would it be less clunky to have the ability split into two abilities?

One being a new "Arcana Siphon" ability:

Arcana Siphon [free action]
Trigger: Your last action this round was to cast a spell or use Spellstrike.
Effect: You enter Arcane Cascade stance.

Arcane Cascade
[stance]
Requirements: none
<Current rules for Arcane Cascade benefits.>

Tbh it would make it easier to enter. Magus does need some more action management options. Arcane Cascade on a reaction, or exiting it on a reaction/free action to recharge spellstrike once per 10 minute or something like that could be neat.

Yeah I am questioning that as well. It is pretty clear, just clunky.

Well, it would be nice to have other options for when you cannot. Or to have more options on how to do it.
In a system that is so flexible, this inflexibility sometime feels frustrating.
Magus have had other ways to feel like a spellsword, it'd be nice to have some more of those.

Maybe I just hope we get more attack spells with interresting effects so Magus has a bit more ways to make spellstrike interresting.
Or maybe that spellstrike is reworked a bit to work more similarly to Channel Smite and allow single target spells with saves too, and Expansive becomes for aoe/multi target save spells.

Or he used Warfare lore to determine a strategy based on the opponent body shape :D

Wonder what that tatoo was, seems that Ezren is cooking some crazy stuff

The concern isn't about its power, just about some clunkyness and how you're kind of stuck doing a single thing and have little else to do to be useful. Since you have very few spells and your action economy is very, very tight. There are times where you can only do normal strikes with nothing else and it'd be neat to have some more fun things to do.
It's kind of like fighter only having power attack as their only strike.

Yeah that's very true.
It's likely more annoying for the Magus because without specific feats archetypes are hard to work with it to complete their kit since your actions are so restricted. Where any martial could enjoy Wrestler, or Dual Weapon Warrior etc, Magus has more of a hard time picking one. Cavalier seems to be very good for it tho'

I'd say that can be features added into Arcane Cascade.
Maybe having spellstrike recharge on 1d4 round, or with conflux spells.
And have more options for stuff to do while it is recharging.

But at this point is a big class rework stuff. Since Magus isn't a core class, and didn't have the issues the witch had, i doubt it'll get that kind of treatment. Though I wish the designers could give it a new pass, after the cool stuff they figured out with classes that came later like Psychic, Gunslinger, Kineticist or Thaumaturge