While Doctrines are limited I don't think they are impossible to add new ones.
In addition domains and class feats still allow for more customization and growth then pf1e.
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While Doctrines are limited I don't think they are impossible to add new ones.
In addition domains and class feats still allow for more customization and growth then pf1e.
Doctrines are terrible to expand upon since they always need to cover most proficiencies of the character. If you look at the existing ones, each only gets a single advancement that's not a proficiency increase. Since those increases are not part of the base class, any new doctrine needs to cover them as well. That basically only leaves level 1 as the only level a new Doctrine could do something different. Unless it comes with very bad proficiencies.
I think it's much more likely that we'll see some kind of class Archetype for the cleric at some point. Maybe a Warpriest version that gives up Divine Font for legendary spellcasting or something like that.
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While Doctrines are limited I don't think they are impossible to add new ones.
In addition domains and class feats still allow for more customization and growth then pf1e.
You could say that. But the counter is - if that were true why have none made it in so far? None in Gods and Magic, APG or Secrets of Magic
I'd expect at least ONE across those three volumes. But there aren't. And that is somewhat telling in my opinion
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While Doctrines are limited I don't think they are impossible to add new ones.
In addition domains and class feats still allow for more customization and growth then pf1e.
You could say that. But the counter is - if that were true why have none made it in so far? None in Gods and Magic, APG or Secrets of Magic
I'd expect at least ONE across those three volumes. But there aren't. And that is somewhat telling in my opinion
Clearly shows that the design direction for Doctrines is too constraining... Putting it very mildly.
War doctrine could have been a wave caster with divine font and martial proficiency. That would have left more room in the middle for an inquisitor type, maybe no divine font but investigator skill profession.
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War doctrine could have been a wave caster with divine font and martial proficiency. That would have left more room in the middle for an inquisitor type, maybe no divine font but investigator skill profession.
You know what would've been a meaningful tradeoff for a Warpriest? The whole Cleric Font for actual Martial Proficiency and the access to fighter feats (following similar rules for MC). One big thing for one big thing.
That way a Warpriest would have to "sacrifice" slots to heal, while Cloistered would be the Heal-focused Doctrine.| 16 people marked this as a favorite. |
I mean Rangers flurry also hasn't received a new one. Druid is only now getting 3.
Gods & Magic clearly put its focus on domains and the lore of the Gods. Gods and magic was also released fairly early on so may not have wanted to mess with subclasses at that time.
I'm not saying it isn't difficult but assuming we don't have one yet = its not being worked on. It could be page count, theming etc. In addition to whatever mechanical issues it may bring.
But this is also getting off topic
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Divine or Occult Magus (and probably primal too) would all be really cool. Especially since Cleric and Bard no longer really work as pseudo-martials that well anymore.
Divine or Occult Magus (and probably primal too) would all be really cool. Especially since Cleric and Bard no longer really work as pseudo-martials that well anymore.Yeah, but I don't see it as a bad thing.
I mean, I think that drastically limiting spells and giving either armor and weapon proficiency would be easy to do with a doctrine ( or a bard muse ) but then it would be a total mess for waht concerns feats and powers.
Adding XX new feats just because the new doctrine would be probably pointless compared to give that doctrine to an already existing class meant to fuse magic and melee.
It's true SoM hasn't been released yet, but "assuming" the magus would work efficiently in terms of mechanics, I'd really prefer to have an occult/divine magus and roleplaying it as a devote of X.
Conceptually, I could easily see the Inquisitor as a divine variation on the Magus framework, the Occultist as an occult variation, and the shifter/hunter as a primal variation. But, I wonder if Paizo would really go in that direction. If they ever did consider it, they would probably wait a while to see whether or not the Magus is well-received by the player-base and how well the class performs once released in the wilds first.
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* P.S. I still dislike wave casting because it straight up messes with the power cap of Magus. It was a 6th level caster whose main stick was abusing low level spells. Now its using high level spells and has a more limited spell selection. I don't see why people want more wave casting.
Not sure what I think of Wave casting yet, but the moment you describe a class as "abusing"any part of the system, it probably needs to change.
Low level spells are semi-useless for a magus anyway, at least on the offensive. Cantrips have taken their place and I think that might work out just fine.
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Low level spells in 1e were effectively the cantrips of 2e in a lot of regards.
Plus it's not like Magus doesn't have loads of way to get more slots, without losing anything like it would have been the case in 1e.
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It's not Warpriest that's the problem, it's that Cloistered just gets the same stuff as every other caster gets baseline.
Warpriest is also an issue, it's horribly designed. You only get increasing Proficiency with one weapon; your deity's favored weapon. So basically, you have to choose your deity based on their favored weapon, which is ridiculous. Warpriest is light on the "war" part.
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* P.S. I still dislike wave casting because it straight up messes with the power cap of Magus. It was a 6th level caster whose main stick was abusing low level spells. Now its using high level spells and has a more limited spell selection. I don't see why people want more wave casting.
I like wave casting because it creates design space for spellcasters who focus on a limited supply of high-level spells. It makes spell slots feel like a bigger deal if the power that full casters get from low-level slots is instead wrapped up in things that aren't spell slots IMO. I'm also not super concerned with imitating the mechanics of PF1, PF1 already exists and trying to force its mechanical space into PF2 does not seem like a great idea.
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The Occultist is weird because it does play like a Magus. While its abilities make should make it more diverse than a Magus. That is if they allow Occultists to have multiple implements. Given the track record I can see them allowing only 1 or greatly reducing the abilities). Inquisitor would work better under the Magus frame given its considerably simpler compared ro Occultist. But I would think Inquisitor be released after teamwork options are released, not before.
I agree that they wrote themselves into a corner with Warpriest as they did not have to release it if it was not ready. Specially when its so clear that its abilities are not up to par with what other class paths give. Not to mention that Warpriest would had fit much better as a Class archetype than a doctrine as it currently stands.
* P.S. I still dislike wave casting because it straight up messes with the power cap of Magus. It was a 6th level caster whose main stick was abusing low level spells. Now its using high level spells and has a more limited spell selection. I don't see why people want more wave casting.
The Occultist plays like a Magus with a better spell list and SLAs, plus thematic and interesting non-combat abilities. The Magus only tricked out the low level spells because that's where all the good touch spells were - for a class that was based around them there wasn't much variety on the spell list.
If the frame works good, I'd be happy to have the Occultist follow the mold, or wait a few years until they hammer it out and get a better class again.
That said, I once again wonder why 2e stepped so far away from the 3/4 BAB 6 level caster that was their design strength. Hopefully these new classes can get some of that magic back.
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I think wave casting has the potential to be neat, but I'm a little concerned about longevity. Four spells a day means you might very well get one spell per encounter or less and focus spells, while helpful, are still 1/rest for a majority of a campaign.
If you have a longer adventuring day or don't rest after every encounter (or both) you can easily end up in a scenario where you're spending a ton of time with cantrips or nothing.
It's sort of like how some people complain about caster longevity at low levels, except for the Summoner and Magus it's by design not going to get better.
I'm ultimately kind of optimistic, but it is my biggest concern with wave casting as a mechanic.
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I think wave casting has the potential to be neat, but I'm a little concerned about longevity. Four spells a day means you might very well get one spell per encounter or less and focus spells, while helpful, are still 1/rest for a majority of a campaign.
If you have a longer adventuring day or don't rest after every encounter (or both) you can easily end up in a scenario where you're spending a ton of time with cantrips or nothing.
It's sort of like how some people complain about caster longevity at low levels, except for the Summoner and Magus it's by design not going to get better.
I'm ultimately kind of optimistic, but it is my biggest concern with wave casting as a mechanic.
They both have way more making martial strikes as a baseline though. Spells are big, once per combat resources for them. Because they can do Strikes much more than a wizard or cloistered cleric could.
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Longevity really depends on how well the wave casters can use cantrips. If all they are doing is using a cantrip and not much else they will suck, however that doesn't seem to be how they are built. Both the magus and summoner seem to be built around the idea that you will cast a cantrip and also have something else going on too.
If a Summoner's Eidolon is strong enough in melee (or some other form of combat) then casting a cantrip while somewhat weak (though not horribly so) combined with their attack makes all the difference. If a Magus can cast a cantrip and combine that with a decent attack then that is ultimately a good combo.
With wave casters I think the main thing is they are splitting their turn between multiple things and so that cantrip combined with the other is a decent damage output. This vs. a full caster that will cast a cantrip, then not have much else offensively to do (perhaps debuff with demoralize or something, but no damage).
Ultimately, we shouldn't look at the cantrip casting in a vacuum with wave casters and ask ourselves whether that is the whole turn or just part of a turn. I wasn't a fan at first, but I'm starting to be won over since the playtest.
Then, with the high level slots, they can do big short bursts for big payoff. The Magus in the liveplay is certainly showing that potential. The Summoner hasn't yet, but part of that may be opportunity and part is due to the player (Bonnie) just really doesn't understand the game or her character (though she has a wonderful role-play mind making it still enjoyable to watch).
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They don't have as many slots, but Magus can combine it with a Strike and Summoner with an Eidolon action with Act Together. Cantrips works well enough with those options.
And well Summoner have the option to pick spellcasting Evolution feats so the Eidolon gain a few spells to increase the quantity that they have.
Though I understand the sadness of having less slots, specially as the book have a ton of new spells like the new contingency spells (cast them in the day and when their condition is met you use a reaction to activate), incarnates (Final fantasy Summons) and spells with variable actions like Scorching Ray.
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I think wave casting has the potential to be neat, but I'm a little concerned about longevity. Four spells a day means you might very well get one spell per encounter or less and focus spells, while helpful, are still 1/rest for a majority of a campaign.
If you have a longer adventuring day or don't rest after every encounter (or both) you can easily end up in a scenario where you're spending a ton of time with cantrips or nothing.
It's sort of like how some people complain about caster longevity at low levels, except for the Summoner and Magus it's by design not going to get better.
I'm ultimately kind of optimistic, but it is my biggest concern with wave casting as a mechanic.
They both have way more making martial strikes as a baseline though. Spells are big, once per combat resources for them. Because they can do Strikes much more than a wizard or cloistered cleric could.
I realize that's the balance point, but I can't imagine a lot of people are drawn to the Magus or Summoner because they want to make regular strikes.
I assume they'll have some "martial" feats too, some different attacks, strikes or mix of martial/magic.
We know the Magus has Cascading Ray, to do an extra spell attack on someone after they hit with a spellstrike. Maybe they'll have other Strike feats.
They'll also benefit more from martial multiclass to get combat options since they scale at the same pace.
Hopefully the Eidolon will get to learn how to use the Monk stances from their Summoner's multiclass dedication. (Imagine a Dragon Eidolon using the Stumbling Stance)
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I'm drawn to the magus for cantrip spell strikes. I'm drawn to the summoner for having a JoJo stand. Everything else (and whether or not I add more spell slots through feats or dedications) is gravy.
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I realize that's the balance point, but I can't imagine a lot of people are drawn to the Magus or Summoner because they want to make regular strikes.
On the contrary, I'd consider the main appeal of them (especially Magus) being able to both use magic AND make regular strikes near or on par with other martials. If you want to cast multiple spells every combat and never make regular strikes - be a wizard. Gish means both magic and martial.
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The Magus is going to be hard to replicate for those that liked it for the power it gave in PF1. The way to build them was get a wide critical hit range, invest in lots of shocking grasps, and spell strike with shocking grasp as much as possible, get a critical hit, destroy what you hit.
Now if you play a magus, you'll have to enjoy it conceptually. It won't do more damage or be more powerful than any other class and less powerful than most of the power classes. It will be a sort of mid tier gish that works more like a martial with some casting.
The new summoner and magus will both fall into this sort of middle of the road category. They will no longer be the power classes they were in PF1. As long as someone can build something fun and somewhat effective, I'm sure they'll do ok.
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If you want to cast multiple spells every combat and never make regular strikes - be a wizard.
Pretty big misrepresentation of what I was saying but sure. No one wants the Magus to be a Wizard, but given how slim their resources are I think it's reasonable to wonder how much time the Magus gets to spend being a Magus over the course of a day.
Like I said, mostly optimistic about it, but it was an issue in the playtest and it's kind of uncharted territory in general.
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I am most concerned about feeling magical outside combat. Low level spells in PF1 were fantastic for various utility purposes. I'm hopeful that multiclassing and staves will fill the gap sufficiently.
If you want to cast multiple spells every combat and never make regular strikes - be a wizard.Pretty big misrepresentation of what I was saying but sure. No one wants the Magus to be a Wizard, but given how slim their resources are I think it's reasonable to wonder how much time the Magus gets to spend being a Magus over the course of a day.
Like I said, mostly optimistic about it, but it was an issue in the playtest and it's kind of uncharted territory in general.
Don't forget that magi also have a class feature (somewhere around level 7 if I remember correctly) that gives them a bunch of low-level spellslots that they can use to cast certain spells determined by their subclass.
And on top of that they can use staves, so a magus should have way more spells than the 4 that basic wave casting gives them.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you want to cast multiple spells every combat and never make regular strikes - be a wizard.Pretty big misrepresentation of what I was saying but sure. No one wants the Magus to be a Wizard, but given how slim their resources are I think it's reasonable to wonder how much time the Magus gets to spend being a Magus over the course of a day.
Like I said, mostly optimistic about it, but it was an issue in the playtest and it's kind of uncharted territory in general.
The main deal of the class is chanelling spells through the blade, cantrips are spells and they can do that all day. The arcane list have Produce Flame, Telekinetic Projectile, Ray of Frost and Acid Splash (maybe also the claw cantrip) to pick the damage type that you like more or fit the situation.
The arcane cascade can also be activated with cantrips, so stuff like shield + arcane cascade to put some of the magical power in the weapon + strike is something to do as well.
Don't forget that magi also have a class feature (somewhere around level 7 if I remember correctly) that gives them a bunch of low-level spellslots that they can use to cast certain spells determined by their subclass.
And on top of that they can use staves, so a magus should have way more spells than the 4 that basic wave casting gives them.
Well, not really a bunch, probably like 2 of them, as it's based on the playtest Martial caster feat.
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Similar to my post on the Summoner class, I have here everything I could find from across the internet, including interviews, streams, and the PaizoCon Discord chat on the Magus.
If it is in regular "quotes", it is a question someone asked and I included it to help with context for the following answering quote from Paizo staff.
If it is a statement in "italic quotes", it is a quote froma Paizo staff person, but not necessarily a developer or designer. Many of these quotes were from the Discord and were from the editor who had a copy of the PDF on hand for reference when he answered questions.
MAGUS
“Damn, it looks like the class' 1st level will have like, 5 pages” – “Yeah it really goes on and on.”
Regarding Magus with lower Intelligence – “If you want to have a low DC on your special abilities, stick purely to spell attack spells for all your spells, and significantly decrease the damage of your bread-and-butter spellstrike cantrip combos, I think the build of 10 Int magus could work but I probably wouldn't build one except for a shtick. You might have different trade-off preferences.”
Spell Strike: Spellstrike is now two actions. However, you need to recharge it, which you can do with an action. You also have focus spells that will recharge Spell Strike, in addition to discharging their spell effects when cast. You can only use spells that have an attack roll as a part of your Spell Strike, but you only have to make the one roll for the weapon to both Strike and cast the spell with a successful hit. There is a feat to expand it to use with any other spell that do not require attack rolls.
• “Spell Strike is its own metastrike now, right? So, you can't combine it with other unique actions.” “Yep, when Logan talked on the stream about wanting to have a lot of flexibility in how you used Spellstrike in the playtest but realizing we would have to remove that to deliver the play experience that matched what the playtesters wanted, that's part of it.” “Yeah. In the end I think Magus has enough mechanics that this lost of flexibility won't be a huge deal.” “I agree. And in exchange for the flexibility, the usability and power are higher in the base case.”
• “…with spell strike specified as being two actions, how does that work with non-2 action spells?” – “You can do a 1-action spell with it too, no problem, but I recommend 2. Most spellstrikable spells are 2 actions anyways.” “If the spell I use is variable action, which effect do I get, the 1-Action or can I choose the 2-Action version? For Spell Strike…” “It doesn't really say. I'd probably let you choose since either version is a 1 or 2-action spell. EDIT: It did say, missed it in my skim. (obviously you can't choose the 3 action version though) – Variable Actions: Some spells have different effects based on the number of actions you spend to cast them. You choose whether to use the effects of the 1- or 2-action version of the spell when you use Spellstrike. A spell has to take exactly 1 or 2 actions; you can’t use Spellstrike with a spell that takes a free action, reaction, or 3 or more actions.”
o “Okay yeah Spellstrike is 2 actions always. Actual text says "You Cast a Spell that takes 1 or 2 actions to cast and requires a spell attack roll," so that potential for the spell to take a variety of actions is built in. And Spellstrike automatically targets only 1 creature, but you can take feats that let you target more.”
• How Magus Recharge Actions work: “You cast a magus focus spell, or you spend an action and recharge it.”
o “Wait, spellstrike with cantrips doesn’t need recharge?” – “It needs recharge, but you should be able to set up to recharge it during fights and pull several off per battle if you play your cards right.”
o “Sure, but I mean, is that action just a generic "recharge"? Does it require a skill check like a swashbuckler? Do the different hybrid studies have different ones?” – “You spend an action to recharge if you don't use the focus spell. So it's just, spend an action, recharge.”
o All Magus Focus Spells Recharge Spellstrike. There are some Magus feats that also let you take other actions to also Recharge.
• A reference to the possible thought process of a Magus player using Spell Strike: "I could true strike this Spellstrike but then I can't enter Arcane Cascade. OK, I'll true strike the next one but then I will have to do a turn without Spellstriking, whereas if I don't true strike I can do force fang into Spellstrike for a mega hit turn...decisions!" (assuming like me you often consider true strikes)”
Arcane Cascade: Turns spell energy into a special buff (This was formerly the Bespell Weapon feat in the playtest). The ability to gain a combat damage buff from the spells you cast is now a core part of the class, instead of a feat. Arcane cascade is a damage buff all Magus’ gets and is a stance the Magus enters after casting a spell that gives them an ongoing damage boost. “If you Cast a Spell, you can cascade.”
• "Can you use a lot of illusion spells, or does it have to be damage?" – “Tricky, but Arcane Cascade will give extra mental damage from illusion spells. It would be hard to use spell strike, but you could use the damaging shadow spells in the book.”
Hybrid Study (Special Combat Styles) – Hybrid Studies mainly affect how you restore spellstrike, only Starlit Span (archery) has to in order to change Spell Strike to make it work.
• “You can use save spells, and they have their normal saves if you do. You are encouraged to use a style that fits your hybrid study by some carrots, but if you don't want to for some reason or need to use a backup weapon, you can if you want (with of course the exception that all but the ranged one can't Spellstrike on ranged)”
• “You get different focus spells from the different hybrid studies. Are those going to be pretty similar to the old synthesis bonuses? (I.e. moving, gaining temp HP, etc)” – “Logan mentioned one in the panel that sweeps two Strikes on separate foes with a staff. They're like that, the default hybrid study focus spells: do some cool Strike thing and recharge.” “Ah, so they all involve strikes of some kind then?” “Yeah, not to say all the magus focus spells do, but those ones tend to, yeah. And usually with a cool kicker. The shield one is pretty superb for a shield magus.”
• “Oh, any of the Studies work well for Two Weapon Fighting?” – “There aren't any that pressure you to dual wield, no. None like pushes you to need to do it, but you could do it with Twisting Tree pretty easily iirc.” “Oh really? I thought that one was the least likely since it worked with Staves.” – “Yeah, but staves are one-handed if you want. So do two staves. You can only have one like magic staff staff at a time, but you can still have two weapon staves. But ‘anything + staff’ and ‘anything + shield’ work super well.” “Dual Weapon Warrior's schtick is Double Slice though, and it seems to be incompatible with Spell Strike. It looks like Magus wouldn't synergize well with this archetype.” – “Could use it on off-turns for Spellstrike if you want to cycle Spellstrike while still using true strike a lot. So, like true strike + Spellstrike -> Double Slice + force fang or whatever. The benefit of all the other actions and the way it flexes is to free you from the tyranny of just Spellstrike all the time (but still allow you to do that if like you really want).”
- Inexorable Iron (Two-Handed Weapon) – When using this stance, Arcane Cascade grants temporary hit points each round.
- Laughing Shadow (Free Hand) – Grants the Dimensional Assault Focus Spell, which grants you the ability to teleport and attack. When using this stance, Arcane Cascade grants a speed boost of +5 ft. to Speed, +10 ft. if the magus is unarmored. In addition, if the magus has a hand free and is attacking a flat-footed enemy, they add +3 additional damage to their Strikes instead of the usual +1. Apparently, it becomes a +5 with Weapon Specialization.
- Sparkling Targe (Sword & Shield) – Grants the Shielding Strike Focus Spell. Raise A Tome gives you an AC bonus and can be used in tandem with Sparkling Targe.
- Twisting Tree (Staves) – Grants the Spinning Staff Attack Focus Spell. “Does the Twisting Tree Focus Spell call out Striking with Staves specifically or just hit 2 people and then some Staff-based benefit?” – “Pretty sure we said it's a staff attack but like as long as one of the two of your weapons is a staff you can make them right?” “Does the Staff Magus have a way to increase the damage of a Staff? “As mentioned earlier, they juice up the staff to the point it's a really good weapon choice for them.” “Does it work with casting staves too?” – “Yuuup.” “Couldn’t put elemental damage runes on it though” “That's because you're not twisting tree I guess. Be twisting tree, it's fun.” “I believe it was stated Magus will have an ability or option to allow staves to use property runes. Does this work with shifting runes and can you still cast spells out of a shifted staff?” – “Shifting is explicitly not allowed.” “Can a magus prepare two staves?” – “Not two spell staves. But you can still dual-wield weapon staves.”
- Starlit Span (Ranged Weapons; cast spells through arrows and bullets) – Lets you make a ranged Strike instead of a melee Strike. "How easy is it going to be to build a Gun Magus?" ”Really easy, you'll just take the ranged option (Starlit Span) of Magus, and you should just be able to use Guns.” They made sure it was compatible.
Conflux Spells (Focus Spells) – Provides a special Strike attack and recharges your Spell Strike simultaneously.
- Force Fang - Lets you essentially bite a creature with force magic. “Yeah don't sleep on that one, it is low key one of their best expansion options for focus spells at low levels.” “A magus with like move->spell strike; force fang spell strike on two turns is going to wreck house.” “Like force fang is very strong but it's not an action economy Strike thing, it's reliable force damage and I love it.”
- Shielding Strike – This is a melee Strike that Recharges Spell Strike and lets you either Raise your Shield, if you have one, or cast the Shield cantrip, if you have it – all for a single action.
- Spinning Staff Attack – Strikes 2 opponents at once while you recharge Spell Strike.
- “Yeah options to expand your focus spells.” “I may be communicating it poorly to get a double headcano, it's like how other classes have feats to expand out your focus spells to include more and often increase pool size. But the ones for magus are pretty great, especially Force Fang.”
- “Are all Magus Focus Spells action condensers that involve hitting a thing in some way or are there some cool flavorful ones outside of the ones in the playtest?” – “The hybrid study specific ones are that, but very few of the others are.”
Magus Feats – Does not get a level 1 Class Feat. “For the most part we kept feats from the playtest unless people didn't like them or the changes changed them too much.”
• “There's a feat for the save spells…”
• “There's a cycle of feats for each hybrid study that I really like. They do some really neat things that feel strongly themed to that study.”
• Cascading Ray – When you Spellstrike, you can spill energy outward in a ray toward the creature you damaged and further damage them by basically shooting the residiual magic at them.
• “I think Energize Strike is gone, actually, sorry!”
• “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”
• Raise A Tome – Gives you an AC bonus and can be used in tandem with the Sparkling Targe Hybrid Study. They had ideas about expanding it with more feats, 6th level feat lets you fuse a magic shield into your tome.
• “I realized, when I asked about Spell Parry, I didn't actually ask for the right feat, the one I wanted to actually ask about was Capture Spell, which is the one that seems at odds with new magus design.” “That's correct, the original version was tied into the old Spellstrike, so the new version is different.” “So it's still there in some fashion, but obviously different? that's still good at least.” “It's very different and the name is slightly different, but Capture is still in it.”
• “ Spirit Sheathe is now a 2nd-level feat, looks like!”
• “Did magus keep the Standby Spell feat? I really liked that one.” – “In general we keep almost every feat from the playtest except ones people really don't like or ones that just purely don't work due to playtest changes. So just about every feat people have asked so far if it's still in, the answer is yes, and that'll continue”
• There are some Magus feats that also let you take other actions to also Recharge. One example Jason Bulmahn said was that it, "lets you Recall Knowledge about a creature to recharge your spell strike (but you get a small bonus on the check if you hit the creature with a strike this turn)."
Multiclass Dedication for Magus – You can get Spellstriker feat at 4th level, while second gives you a little casting, but takes a full minute to recharge.
- “Any hints how the Magus Archetype deals with casting? Stat requirements?” – “It's similar to other caster archetypes but it has a progression shared with summoner b/c wave caster.”
- “For Magus - Spell Strike is a unique class feature + Martial Weapons / Armor / Spellcasting combo. I can't imagine we get the whole deal as a level 2 feat.” “Magus dedication is just like other caster dedications with cantrips. again, this is from memory discussed 2 days ago.” – “Ah! Yeah, you don't get Spellstrike right away with the multiclass arch. It's very much aimed at a non-caster base class, so the dedication feat for magus is what FirstWorldBard said. Spellstrike comes in at 4th level. Yep!”
-“Does the Magus MC have any Arcane Cascade equivalent?” – “Nope, sorry!”
- “Does it give anything beyond Spellstrike that isn't just the Feats from the Magus class?” – “Other than the usual spellcasting improvement feats, nope, but the magus feats rule so you'll have plenty to play with.”
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Thank you so much for the research, Ashanderai! Now I can't wait to see what an Investigator can do with Magus MC.
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Thank you so much for the research, Ashanderai! Now I can't wait to see what an Investigator can do with Magus MC.
You're welcome.
I also had these quotes about the book that I could not figure a specific section for, but a couple of them are somewhat relevant to the Magus:
“…any specific witch content we can expect?” – “Unfortunately, no! We were very, VERY limited by space in this book, so the only classes that got unique features are druid, monk, and wizard.”
“Why monk instead of witch?” – “Class options were done only when there was a strong demand, and since monk and druid had incomplete elemental cycles of abilities, there was a strong demand in elementalism. But keep in mind, the monk stuff was cutting room floor and was actually removed from the book for quite a while until we fit it back at the last minute.”
“Definitely looking forward to those Feats! Any fun ones that stand out?” – “There's a really cool one that will be great for wizards, which lets you fuse a staff into a weapon so you can cast spells and Spellstrike with it. (And hit people with it.)”
“So you're telling me I can fuse my staff into a sword and have some horrid abomination of butt kicking?” – “Yes!”
“Oh, so like the old Shifting Staff trick but more official and less janky? Mark mentioned you can't put shifting runes on staff still, even with magus” – “Yes, but you can do the fusion thing Avi mentioned and switch between modes at will. It's not the shifting rune though. It's a new thing.”
“Are there any future plans to bring a version of the 1e hexcrafter (curse and hex focused - witch magus archetype) back for the 2e magus?” – “…consider the witch archetype for your magus. It's a really strong archetype choice.”
Are we sure that it was a print delay in print delays or is that speculation? They usually have book sink with Gen Con. It got pushed back month. If they had released on 5th that is month plus before Gen Con. So I could see them move the release date back to the 25th so it is closure to gen con release. If Paizo did say book got pushed back print delays they usually send subscribers email about it. I got email last delay. I could have just missed it.
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Are we sure that it was a print delay in print delays or is that speculation? They usually have book sink with Gen Con. It got pushed back month. If they had released on 5th that is month plus before Gen Con. So I could see them move the release date back to the 25th so it is closure to gen con release. If Paizo did say book got pushed back print delays they usually send subscribers email about it. I got email last delay. I could have just missed it.
Except for the slight delay this book has already received by being pushed back into the 25 August release date we have now, Paizo has not said this book has been delayed by anything else so far. The GenCon organizers did not decide the dates for the GenCon convention until late for this year and I'm pretty certain Paizo had to predict when this book's release date was going to be long before GenCon decided to have the convention later than they usually do. While Paizo would normally have had such a big release at GenCon, they could not coordinate that effectively when even the GenCon organizers could not get the convention dates nailed down early enough because even they weren't certain they were going to hold the convention at all due to COVID. So, in the end, when GenCon is held, doesn't affect this book's release date nearly as much as the world-wide shipping problems do.
If this book is delayed from its announced release date, it will be due to the shipping shortage, I am sure, and will not be due to anything to do with GenCon.
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“Oh, so like the old Shifting Staff trick but more official and less janky? Mark mentioned you can't put shifting runes on staff still, even with magus” – “Yes, but you can do the fusion thing Avi mentioned and switch between modes at will. It's not the shifting rune though. It's a new thing.”
Obviously we'll have to wait to see it, but that sounds precisely like the old shifting rune trick. Unless "at will" means as a free action.
That said, I can see this one excluding gauntlets as an option to transform into.
“Oh, so like the old Shifting Staff trick but more official and less janky? Mark mentioned you can't put shifting runes on staff still, even with magus” – “Yes, but you can do the fusion thing Avi mentioned and switch between modes at will. It's not the shifting rune though. It's a new thing.”
Obviously we'll have to wait to see it, but that sounds precisely like the old shifting rune trick. Unless "at will" means as a free action.
That said, I can see this one excluding gauntlets as an option to transform into.
My best guess is it's like the Shifting Staff trick, but you're limited to either the actual staff, or the single weapon you decided to bond it with. So you get 2 (maybe 3 at high levels?) options to toggle between, unlike Shifting which is the ENTIRE EQUIPMENT SECTION (barring the GM saying "no, not that one")
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If it has to be the staff to cast then I'll try to fill a staff with outside of combat utility spells. I don't want my greatsword to turn into a wooden bonking stick mid combat.
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Costing an action to switch makes it the same as taking out a staff that you're wearing for one-handed weapon users. Even for two-handed weapons, it only saves an action.
Another point is that it would make Twisting Tree vastly superior to the other studies because they can actually use their staff spells in combat without spending several turns switching modes on their weapon.
Costing an action to switch makes it the same as taking out a staff that you're wearing for one-handed weapon users. Even for two-handed weapons, it only saves an action.
Another point is that it would make Twisting Tree vastly superior to the other studies because they can actually use their staff spells in combat without spending several turns switching modes on their weapon.
Idk about vastly superior, depending on focus spells and additional feats for other studies. Twisting tree will definitely be the most versatile by way of easy spell access.
Even if it does work like the old trick, it'll be restricted to Magus and MCD magi.
And locked behind a feat, so for everyone else, they'd be looking at a level 12 feat in exchange for it. That's more investment than a cheap level 3 rune.
Posted on Reddit the spoilers from the latest Secrets of Magic livestream. Link to it can be found HERE.
TLDR: There's two new cantrips (one being Bullhorn, which we heard about during PaizoCon), and finally the usage of Arcade Cascade. Also, Dond crit AGAIN.
Also, Jason Bulmahn is gonna be on Glass Cannon's Cannon Fodder show tomorrow at 8:30 PDT, and he said he'll be talking a little bit about Secrets of Magic. If anything new is said, I'll let y'all know!
Link to the Glass Cannon Podcast's Cannon Fodder spoilers can be found HERE.
TLDR: Lots of details dropped, including additional effects from Laughing Shadow's Arcane Cascade, and a new spell!
Much excite!
Shame on the Warlock front though. Don't get me wrong, incredibly valid reasons not to add it. But, I was hoping for a take on the Warlock that was original anyways, not a port of the D&D class. I had my own personal idea on the matter, but it defiently isn't enough to stand on its own legs.
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My guess is also that it has to be a staff to cast, and it'll probably be an action to swap between them.
I agree.
An extra rune as for the champion ( shifting rune, maybe with limits ).
The action to swap would also be balanced.Swap > Cast a spell
Swap > spellstrike
Recharge > SpellstrikePretty easy and straightforward.
Though, I have to admit, that I'd pay for a lvl 12/14 improved shifting rune which lets the character shift as a free action.
But hell no something class specific.
If it is an action to switch between staff and sword mode it won't be worth a feat. Magus looks action starved, going to spend an action to switch, cast a spell then another action to switch back?
The fact it's action starving means nothing to me.
It's already so damn efficient because of the focus spell which auto recharges, and by better by far if compared to the clunky eldritch archer ( unable to choose whether to recharge or use the action to do something else ).
Shifting is a rune mechanic now.
I can't think of any rune mechanics that a class has its enhanced version, not available to anybody else.Finally, as Kalaam pointed out, imagine a character wasting 1 dedication +2 class feats ( one of them lvl 12 ) to unlock at lvl 12 a rune that could have been generic for anybody instead.
I'd really dislike it.
I mean that it's a good thing that this requires investment and isn't just a cheap trick anyone can pull off.