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Still very hyped.
I wonder what kind of special abilities each eidolon will have.
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I wonder what kind of special abilities each eidolon will have.
What we know so far about them is:
Eidolon Creature Types/Themes:Angel (Divine) - Nothing more than what we saw in the playtest.
Anger Phantom (Occult) – Can do additional damage and is not incorporeal.
Beast (Primal) - Not much more than what we saw in the playtest, but the Summoner on the Secrets of Magic Liveplay is playing this type.
Construct (Arcane) – Customizable; Gains an extra evolution feat. “You can reconfigure your construct as you level up!”
Demon (Divine) – Choose a Sin and get some abilities based on that.
Devotion Phantom (Occult) – Not much more than what we saw in the playtest. Will help defend you and is very devoted to something and is not incorporeal.
Dragon (Arcane) – Nothing more than what we saw in the playtest.
Fey (Primal) – Very caster-focused & automatically gets some of the new feats to give the eidolon spells. They do a lot of tricks and magic.
Plant (Primal) – Has abilities focused on Reach and uses its Roots to get to its enemies.
Psychopomp (Divine) – Can go Invisible, do Positive energy damage to Undead and Negative energy damage to the living, and at high level can “take spirits”, which makes them good against incorporeal creatures.
I am mostly disappointed that we won't be getting an elemental/genie eidolon form. That is what I was really hoping for. I wanted to make a spoiled and arrogant noble character that thought he got lucky with a genie in a lamp, only to be cowed by the genie and is disappointed he won't/can't grant wishes. The genie eidolon is the one who is actually the dominant one in their relationship with the genie actually being of a good alignment while the summoner is more selfish and neutral in alignment. The genie is actually teaching him to be a better person.
I might have to try and do a spin on this concept with the fey eidolon (it helps that they say it is more caster-focused), like a spirit of the forest, like maybe a nymph or something, that was trapped long ago and forced to grant wishes and found its prison unlocked by the spoiled, aristocratic summoner... hmm... it will all depend on what the final class and fey eidolon will look like, though.
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Actually I am not sure Paizo's current Information System can handle the charge before shipping option.
I do believe Digital is the way of the future (or rather a mix of Digital and RL offers) and that those who do not surf the wave, whether they be FLGS or Publishers, will not survive.
I definitely hope Paizo will be one of the future TTRPG winners.
Discerning the best path for the future. That is definitely one of the best kept Secrets of this Magic-al world of ours ;-)
Yeah, it looks that is basically the same as the playtest but with some more quality of life, mainly in the act together that is "1 to 3 actions and the other gain 1" and the lvl 1 evolution feat.
The Beast Eidolon per example their first feature is the same as the playtest looking the the live play that paizo is doing.
The lack of an elemental or aberration does sort of standout a bit. Especially aberration, imo, because that would probably be occult and it feels weird to get two phantoms instead.
... Also kind of feels weird that Beast is primal only when other sources refer to beasts as Arcane creatures. Feels like maybe they should have let you pick there.
Still hoping there'll be some support for martial summoners because the idea of a summoner fighting alongside their eidolon is really cool, but starting to suspect there won't be.
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Gotta leave room for future products, ya know?
Construct is my favorite, as I think of it like accidentally putting part of your soul into the machine, linking you two. Or rather, that's how I intend to run it
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Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
I wonder what kind of special abilities each eidolon will have.What we know so far about them is:
Eidolon Creature Types/Themes:
Angel (Divine) - Nothing more than what we saw in the playtest.
Anger Phantom (Occult) – Can do additional damage and is not incorporeal.
Beast (Primal) - Not much more than what we saw in the playtest, but the Summoner on the Secrets of Magic Liveplay is playing this type.
Construct (Arcane) – Customizable; Gains an extra evolution feat. “You can reconfigure your construct as you level up!”
Demon (Divine) – Choose a Sin and get some abilities based on that.
Devotion Phantom (Occult) – Not much more than what we saw in the playtest. Will help defend you and is very devoted to something and is not incorporeal.
Dragon (Arcane) – Nothing more than what we saw in the playtest.
Fey (Primal) – Very caster-focused & automatically gets some of the new feats to give the eidolon spells. They do a lot of tricks and magic.
Plant (Primal) – Has abilities focused on Reach and uses its Roots to get to its enemies.
Psychopomp (Divine) – Can go Invisible, do Positive energy damage to Undead and Negative energy damage to the living, and at high level can “take spirits”, which makes them good against incorporeal creatures.I am mostly disappointed that we won't be getting an elemental/genie eidolon form. That is what I was really hoping for. I wanted to make a spoiled and arrogant noble character that thought he got lucky with a genie in a lamp, only to be cowed by the genie and is disappointed he won't/can't grant wishes. The genie eidolon is the one who is actually the dominant one in their relationship with the genie actually being of a good alignment while the summoner is more selfish and neutral in alignment. The genie is actually teaching him to be a better person.
I might have to try and do a spin on this concept with the fey eidolon (it helps that they say it is...
Oh wow I knew about the fey one being castery and the construct being customizable but I didn't know about the other stuff.
Yeah I wished they had a genie/elemental one but I'm sure we will get one soon hopefully. Fey seems like a good alternative ( I could also even see Dragon potentially)
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You purchase the items when you make your order
Nonsense. You purchase a thing when you pay for it. Economics 101.
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I can see where I might have caused some possible confusion and/or misunderstandings with my attempt at abbreviating my notes. So, I will include everything I have assembled from across the internet, the interviews, streams, and the PaizoCon Discord chat on the Summoner.
If it is in regular "quotes", it is a question someone asked and I included it to help with context for the following answering quote from Paizo staff.
If it is a statement in "italic quotes", it is a quote froma Paizo staff person, but not necessarily a developer or designer. Many of these quotes were from the Discord and were from the editor who had a copy of the PDF on hand for reference when he answered questions.
SUMMONER
“There's a lot of fun actions and abilities for eidolon, and the options were greatly expanded. However, if you're looking for the eidolon to keep up with a martial character on their own, without counting the summoner in for anything, you're going to be disappointed. The class in total is very effective (and I am routinely a high damage dealer for our party and a pinch healer with mine) but the eidolon is part of the whole.”
- Key ability is Charisma. “I'm not seeing any other class abilities at a glance that specifically call on Charisma for summoner, the main key thing is it's your spellcasting stat so it really is essential. There might be feats that use it that I didn't notice at a glance—this chapter is almost twice as long as magus because of all the eidolon stats, so there's a lot to scroll though, lol.”
- Summoner and Eidolon both share a combined pool of Hit Points.
- Cast Spells from a tradition that matches your eidolon’s theme.
- “Can you confirm if the Summoner still has the magic proficiency progression they did in the Playtest (expert at lvl 11)? If so, are there other class features that use Charisma that would give reason for that stat to be maxed given that DC/Attacks would already be behind the curve (thus encouraging the use of mostly buff spells).” “Summoner now gets expert at 9th level. And master at 17th, yep!”
- When you manifest your eidolon, it can take a single action. So, if it is manifested next to an enemy, it can attack for that action.
- “I fear it being better than everyone at low lvls as it have martial progression and casting equal to a caster.” “Having played it in the final version, it's for sure strong, but it requires good planning on my part and has some vulnerabilities in the two characters who can be attacked. The action economy was tight even before I (foolishly? maybe not because I've gotten good use of it) added Beastmaster, and positioning in particular is tricky for me. I also had several fights where I got focus fired and nearly died if not for Faye herself (my summoner) casting top level heal while the life oracle cast super ridiculous mega top level heal (and one of the life oracle's boosts was healer's blessing which boosted my own heal too) and I was still staying conscious at like 2 HP, 3 HP, 4 HP each round of that grueling battle. If the GM had rolled just a little higher, it would have been a problem, and I was holding a crucial battle position and we probably would have folded.”
- Tandem Actions – Special actions the summoner and eidolon can use to work together.
o “Act Together” was changed to make it so one of them can do a 1-3 action activity, and the other to do a one action, giving you an action for free, e.g. the eidolon can do a 3 action activity, and the summoner could take a one action. Act Together is built for flexibility, but you might trade off a lot, so one round you might cast a spell with the summon as a side note, but another might have your eidolon do a big breath weapon while you chug a quick potion. You can build to let your eidolon do all the fighting too.
- The summoner has similar casting to the playtest, with "Wave" spell progression.
- You can use staves, wands, and scrolls too. Focus Spells are mostly boosting the Eidolon.
Summoner Feats:
- There is a specific option for the eidolon to gain or share skill feats.
- Blood Frenzy (for your eidolon) – Essentially lets your eidolon Rage. “Gives the eidolon buffs, but it takes a –2 penalty to AC...” “The buffs are damage, scaled with number of die, and temporary HP for blood frenzy. That one is 6th level.”
- “2/3 of the 20th feats are certainly eidolon-focused, but they aren't evolutions.”
Focus Spells:
- Lifelink Surge – Gives your eidolon fast healing for 4 rounds. “My EIDOLON fast healing for 4 rounds? I thought we shared HP, so would it also apply to the summoner?” “It's applied to your shared HP. It specifies in case it matters. For instance, if your eidolon has ghoul fever and heals for half or something.”
- Eidolon's Wrath (Feat that grants a Focus Spell) – Pick a type of damage when you pick the feat (Sonic damage is one possibility), and it does 5d6 of the chosen type (as a 6th level Summoner) in a 20-foot emanation centered on the Eidolon.
Eidolon - Evolve your eidolon with special feats to give it new abilities. Different Eidolons play very differently.
- “You're still able to pick your attacks for the eidolon, so it is customizable at 1st level, even w/o evolutions.”
- Eidolons can start with an 18 in one ability score, which means that, between the summoner and the eidolon, they can essentially have two 18 ability scores. “This is part of what I was talking about with the "ensemble" being very powerful even though eidolons intentionally aren't 100% of the way to a martial.”
- “There's now more choices for what ability array you want per eidolon...” “Like the beater dragon vs one that's more of the smarter dragon.”
- “There's also trade-offs in positioning and sharing HP so I don't think it's broken, but it's different, and it's strong. Try it out and see! I think it's fun without being too overpowering.”
- “I know the PT Summoner had some awkwardness with armor class. Like, it only got Expert unarmored at level 3, so it had caster AC for the first two levels, and the scaling was a bit weird. Was something changed in that regard? I mean, um, the Eidolon.” “Yes, we unweirded the scaling by tying some baked in item bonus and max Dex to the stat arrays you pick.”
- “Can I have a caster-focused eidolon now?” “As mentioned in the panel, you can get them spells...and eventually that can wind up being a lot of spells. Possibly as many or more as the summoner has if you really want.”
- “I believe evolutions are feat-based. So you start with a (very cool and powerful) base eidolon at 1st level, and build from there.” “We had enough level 1 evolutions and other feats in there for Logan to be like "Are we sure we need this many level 1 feats." That's when you know you have maybe even slightly too many level 1 feats. Hopefully it's just enough and not too many!” “If it's too many, blame me because I answered "Yes." “I figured the bonus free evolution meant we had to give a bunch of feats there, since you could take up to two of them, right?” “Oh yeah, there are level 1 evolution feats. So you can go into that as you build. But they aren't built into the class features. My bad on how I explained that.” “If there's enough to feel like it's breezy and plenty of space for the non-Natural Ambition gang and the Natural Ambition gang has to tighten their belt just a little, I don't mind as much, but in this case they should be fine.”
- “Summoner’s Eidolon starts with a level 1 Evolution Feat?” “Yes, as a special benefit. But they still don't get the 1st level class feat normally.”
- “Do we still get eidolon abilities in addition to 1st level evolution feat? That would be crazy.” “We do, and it's pretty wild.”
- “Are evolution feats still class feats or are they acquired in a different way now?” “They are class feats but they are also acquired by a special 1st level feature that grants you an evolution feat (and the construct eidolon in particular was stated to be flexible with more evos).”
- Eidolon Creature Types/Themes:
o Angel (Divine)
o Anger Phantom (Occult) – Can do additional damage. “Doesn't look like the phantom eidolons are incorporeal, sorry! I imagine that would be just too hard to balance at low levels.”
o Beast (Primal)
o Construct (Arcane) – Customizable; “You can reconfigure your construct as you level up!” Gains an extra evolution feat.
o Demon (Divine) – Choose a Sin and get some abilities based on that.
o Devotion Phantom (Occult) – Will help defend you and is very devoted to something. “Doesn't look like the phantom eidolons are incorporeal, sorry! I imagine that would be just too hard to balance at low levels.”
o Dragon (Arcane) – Has a breath weapon
o Fey (Primal) – Very caster-focused & automatically gets some of the new feats to give the eidolon spells. They do a lot of tricks and magic.
o Plant (Primal) – Has abilities focused on Reach and uses its Roots to get to its enemies
o Psychopomp (Divine) – Can go Invisible, do Positive energy damage to Undead and Negative energy damage to the living, and at high level can “take spirits”, which makes them good against incorporeal creatures.
Eidolon Evolutions:
- Ever-Vigilant Senses – “…is straight out of the playtesters' ideas. It can be that you have a ton of eyes or heads or something or just you're always vigilant, but the eidolon becomes really good at noticing stuff.”
- Magical Master – 18th level
- Trample – “It's trample yo.”
Multiclass Dedication for Summoner – you get a startlingly high percentage of the eidolon
- “For Summoner - The Eidolon is very definitive. How weakened is it at the level 2 dedication feat, or does it take time to get to it?” “Summoner, you get the eidolon but the action economy is more limited. Also, the eidolons ability scores are a bit lowered. (But not horribly) Yep, you don't get Act Together from the multiclass arch.”
If there is demand for it, I can include my full notes on the Magus and the rest of the book, as well. What I listed up-thread on the Magus was not everything I have collected about that class. Just doing this much with the Summoner notes and formatting it for this post was a bit of pain, so I am not anxious to post the rest of the notes. But, I will if the demand is there; I will just need time to format everything to make it understandable.
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I can see where I might have caused some possible confusion and/or misunderstandings with my attempt at abbreviating my notes. So, I will include everything I have assembled from across the internet, the interviews, streams, and the PaizoCon Discord chat on the Summoner.
If it is in regular "quotes", it is a question someone asked and I included it to help with context for the following answering quote from Paizo staff.
If it is a statement in "italic quotes", it is a quote froma Paizo staff person, but not necessarily a developer or designer. Many of these quotes were from the Discord and were from the editor who had a copy of the PDF on hand for reference when he answered questions.
SUMMONER
“There's a lot of fun actions and abilities for eidolon, and the options were greatly expanded. However, if you're looking for the eidolon to keep up with a martial character on their own, without counting the summoner in for anything, you're going to be disappointed. The class in total is very effective (and I am routinely a high damage dealer for our party and a pinch healer with mine) but the eidolon is part of the whole.”
- Key ability is Charisma. “I'm not seeing any other class abilities at a glance that specifically call on Charisma for summoner, the main key thing is it's your spellcasting stat so it really is essential. There might be feats that use it that I didn't notice at a glance—this chapter is almost twice as long as magus because of all the eidolon stats, so there's a lot to scroll though, lol.”
- Summoner and Eidolon both share a combined pool of Hit Points.
- Cast Spells from a tradition that matches your eidolon’s theme.
- “Can you confirm if the Summoner still has the magic proficiency progression they did in the Playtest (expert at lvl 11)? If so, are there other class features that use Charisma that would give reason for that stat to be maxed given that DC/Attacks would already be behind the curve (thus encouraging the use of mostly buff spells).”...
Hey thank you so much for this awesome work!
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Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
I do have a couple of quotes in my notes that are relevant to that (from the Discord chat, if I recall correctly): “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”
I do have a couple of quotes in my notes that are relevant to that (from the Discord chat, if I recall correctly): “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
Oh that I was aware of, but I was wondering if the nature of hybrid study had been disclosed at all. Like is it school restricted, a subset of spells, or some other setup. Like do two handed magus get enlarge and do dashers get jump?
I'm honestly just mostly wondering if I can keep mirror image as a spell without having to use a precious slot or if I'll need a dedication for that.
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I do have a couple of quotes in my notes that are relevant to that (from the Discord chat, if I recall correctly): “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
Oh that I was aware of, but I was wondering if the nature of hybrid study had been disclosed at all. Like is it school restricted, a subset of spells, or some other setup. Like do two handed magus get enlarge and do dashers get jump?
I'm honestly just mostly wondering if I can keep mirror image as a spell without having to use a precious slot or if I'll need a dedication for that.
I'm afraid I have found no further information as to what spells may or may not be tied to the Hybrid Studies when it comes to the standard spells.
I do have a couple of quotes in my notes that are relevant to that (from the Discord chat, if I recall correctly): “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
Oh that I was aware of, but I was wondering if the nature of hybrid study had been disclosed at all. Like is it school restricted, a subset of spells, or some other setup. Like do two handed magus get enlarge and do dashers get jump?
I'm honestly just mostly wondering if I can keep mirror image as a spell without having to use a precious slot or if I'll need a dedication for that.
You might also use a staff, even if you are not twisting tree hybrid study, you can pick the feat to fuse a staff to a normal weapon and use a mirror image from the charges there.
You might also use a staff, even if you are not twisting tree hybrid study, you can pick the feat to fuse a staff to a normal weapon and use a mirror image from the charges there.I do have a couple of quotes in my notes that are relevant to that (from the Discord chat, if I recall correctly): “Looks like Martial Caster didn't make the cut, sadly! Not sure why, since it happened between my passes on the class.” “There is a 7th-level class feature that grants you specific spells based on your hybrid study, which might be what it was replaced with.”Big sad on aberration not being included for occult and then getting two separate phantoms... sigh
Psyched for plant and fey though on primal!
I'm so excited to see how additional spells work for magus, was there anything confirmed on that front so far? I didn't catch anything in the streams unless I missed it
Oh that I was aware of, but I was wondering if the nature of hybrid study had been disclosed at all. Like is it school restricted, a subset of spells, or some other setup. Like do two handed magus get enlarge and do dashers get jump?
I'm honestly just mostly wondering if I can keep mirror image as a spell without having to use a precious slot or if I'll need a dedication for that.
I think counting on getting a staff of the exact spell you want is already not a guarantee and thats not getting into being able to use it realistically on magus depending on the study, more than likely either demanding large action economy or having to be your actual weapon.
I ran mirror image pretty regularly on magus in PF1 and I didn't even have the option to get it with martial caster in the playtest.
So basically sure, but if that's the only avenue that doesn't involve dedications, I'd rather have the dedication and it's less than ideal for me personally.
But this is the hype thread! So let's just wait and see and hope there's some cool defensive options in the hybrid study!
...
You might also use a staff, even if you are not twisting tree hybrid study, you can pick the feat to fuse a staff to a normal weapon and use a mirror image from the charges there.
I don't believe that there are any staffs with mirror image.
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I believe there are rules for building custom stages in SoM? But I could be misrecalling other information.
The August 2021 CS shipping thread has yet to be created, so I don't think we'll see orders starting to spawn this week as hoped for upthread. Would love to be wrong though.
Edit: staff ninja'd
Luckily this also contains custom staffs and tons of other items to help this kinda idea work.I don't believe that there are any staffs with mirror image....
You might also use a staff, even if you are not twisting tree hybrid study, you can pick the feat to fuse a staff to a normal weapon and use a mirror image from the charges there.
Oooh. That will be cool! That might make the Staff Nexus Thesis more workable.
Well, it can be useful when casting your spells in melee trigger a reaction.
Though the chances of success are fairly low, so I don't know how worthwile it is.
Someone more experienced might have a better answer
Oh sorry, mixed them up!
Indeed not sure how useful it'd be on Magus, maybe we'll get some sustained spells that could prove useful to a Magus in SoM.
So... Eidolons that we're still missing...
- Undead (Divine)
- Aberration (Occult)
- Elemental/Genie (Arcane)
- Ooze (Primal?)
We're also missing the synthesist class archetype, and/or possibly a class archetype for cashing in the spellcasting for more martial That plus an appropriate smattering of class feats seems like it would make for a nice meaty chunk to add into some appropriately themed later book, maybe two or three years out past the currently indicated schedule. It feels like it would leave the Summoner more or less complete as a class. At least, I'm not seeing anything that I can think of that the class would be lacking at that point.
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So... Eidolons that we're still missing...
- Undead (Divine)
- Aberration (Occult)
- Elemental/Genie (Arcane)
- Ooze (Primal?)
We're also missing the synthesist class archetype, and/or possibly a class archetype for cashing in the spellcasting for more martial That plus an appropriate smattering of class feats seems like it would make for a nice meaty chunk to add into some appropriately themed later book, maybe two or three years out past the currently indicated schedule. It feels like it would leave the Summoner more or less complete as a class. At least, I'm not seeing anything that I can think of that the class would be lacking at that point.
Undead eidelon would be a good inclusion for book of the dead!
So... Eidolons that we're still missing...
- Undead (Divine)
- Aberration (Occult)
- Elemental/Genie (Arcane)
- Ooze (Primal?)
We're also missing the synthesist class archetype, and/or possibly a class archetype for cashing in the spellcasting for more martial That plus an appropriate smattering of class feats seems like it would make for a nice meaty chunk to add into some appropriately themed later book, maybe two or three years out past the currently indicated schedule. It feels like it would leave the Summoner more or less complete as a class. At least, I'm not seeing anything that I can think of that the class would be lacking at that point.
Genie/Elemental would probably be Primal and Ooze either Arcane or Occult (given the monster ID skill for slimes is Occultism, while Elementals is Nature). I can see Undead being in Book of the Dead, which would be SICK! Curious if they'll save new eidolons are setting books mostly, or if they'll chuck some in generic rule books like the equivalent of Ultimate Intrigue or Ultimate Wilderness that'll (hopefully) come down the pipeline.
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I must say I am rather more disappointed that the Eidolon system is going to be essentially "Choose your Pokemon" instead of a build-a-monster class, that was where it really shone in PF1 but it makes sense that it is MUCH easier to balance a dozen or so kits of specific options and abilities than it is to offer 50+ different mix-n-match options.
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Undead eidelon would be a good inclusion for book of the dead!
It would, thematically, but I'm not expecting it. I also think it would be a poor choice for Paizo, strategically. Given that it's not in Secrets of Magic to begin with, better to let that one drop first. Let people play with it for a while and get better feedback before trying to make any further additions or changes. In the long run, it gives you better results from the same amount of effort.
Also missing are also:
Twinned, Shadow, Storykin, Aeon, Ancestor, Agathion (Different from Beast or Angel), Archon (Different from Construct or Angel), Astral, Azata, Devil, Daemon, Div (different from genie), Radiant, Void, Kyton (different from Demon. Still not used to their new name), Kami, and Protean (kind of but different from Ooze).
Okay, so as a serious question, does anyone really care about those? Sure, having more options to play with from a CharOp standpoint is always fun, but reskinning an ancestor as a Devotion Phantom, or reskinning your Agathion as either a Beast or an Angel just isn't all that hard. Are there any on that list that anyone's really looking at and feeling real disappointment at missing?
I must say I am rather more disappointed that the Eidolon system is going to be essentially "Choose your Pokemon" instead of a build-a-monster class, that was where it really shone in PF1 but it makes sense that it is MUCH easier to balance a dozen or so kits of specific options and abilities than it is to offer 50+ different mix-n-match options.
Given the availability of evolutions, it looks like there's going to be a fair amount of build-a-monster as well.
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Genie/Elemental would probably be Primal and Ooze either Arcane or Occult (given the monster ID skill for slimes is Occultism, while Elementals is Nature). I can see Undead being in Book of the Dead, which would be SICK! Curious if they'll save new eidolons are setting books mostly, or if they'll chuck some in generic rule books like the equivalent of Ultimate Intrigue or Ultimate Wilderness that'll (hopefully) come down the pipeline.So... Eidolons that we're still missing...
- Undead (Divine)
- Aberration (Occult)
- Elemental/Genie (Arcane)
- Ooze (Primal?)
We're also missing the synthesist class archetype, and/or possibly a class archetype for cashing in the spellcasting for more martial That plus an appropriate smattering of class feats seems like it would make for a nice meaty chunk to add into some appropriately themed later book, maybe two or three years out past the currently indicated schedule. It feels like it would leave the Summoner more or less complete as a class. At least, I'm not seeing anything that I can think of that the class would be lacking at that point.
I imagine elemental and genie might be split. Given that sorcerers have a bloodline for each and elemental is primal and genie is arcane.
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Okay, so as a serious question, does anyone really care about those? Sure, having more options to play with from a CharOp standpoint is always fun, but reskinning an ancestor as a Devotion Phantom, or reskinning your Agathion as either a Beast or an Angel just isn't all that hard. Are there any on that list that anyone's really looking at and feeling real disappointment at missing?Also missing are also:
Twinned, Shadow, Storykin, Aeon, Ancestor, Agathion (Different from Beast or Angel), Archon (Different from Construct or Angel), Astral, Azata, Devil, Daemon, Div (different from genie), Radiant, Void, Kyton (different from Demon. Still not used to their new name), Kami, and Protean (kind of but different from Ooze).
I'm missing protean, I know people who loved the concepts enabled by twinned summoners, and if I ever run explicitly evil campaigns devils, divs, and daemons will be omissions I miss as well. I'd rather have Aeon than Construct too.
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Feel like maybe they should have genercized the eidolons a bit. Fiend/Celestial with more internal flexibility for how you build them would mean you wouldn't have to consider printing separate eidolons for each flavor of good/bad outsider.
Though maybe having a big pool of potential extra options to print in future books is a goal rather than a problem.
Summoner/champion should be pretty interesting for trying to jump into the fray with your buddy. extra points for having an ancestry with weapon feats. I, however, will be basic and mix summoner with sorcerer.