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+1 Occultist
It pairs well with the Investigator, if they want to do more investigation adventures. The Karrin Murphy/Harry Dresden dynamic.
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Kineticist followed by Medium
They have unique themes and would be well suited for unique mechanics. And I feel like their uniqueness means that they should really come out earlier than later in the edition, so there is time to give them enough options. Versus characters like shamans and so forth, which I assume will benefit from existing spell lists and options.
Magus for me.
My answer to the question 'what do you give up if you want to be good at fighting and good at spells?' is high level spells. I don't mind casting 2nd level spells when others are casting 4th or 5th level ones. I do mind having to wait to 4th level to get 1 single spell.
I don't mind fighters doing a ton more melee damage than me, but I do mind ending up with a class / archetype where even one single person on the forums or at a PFS table tells me I shouldn't be in melee.
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Kineticist +1
Special Mentions go to Gunslinger, Summoner, Inquisitor, and Bloodrager
+1 Gunslinger
+1 Summoner
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+1 Gunslinger (preferably WITHOUT being able to constantly ignore armor)
First choice has the be Gunslinger/Drifter (happy with either name). While guns are not traditionally part of western-themed fantasy (my default base setting), I feel so many stories are enhanced by the ability to have and the existence of guns that it is a necessary add on. Pirates? I want cannons and pistols. Eastern? I want early blunderbuss and other gunpowder options.
Second choice is Shifter. They are such a cool idea but implemented way too late in 1e (and not a super strong mechanical choice in 1e) that they never got their due. Would love to see them in 2e (even as a class agnostic archetype)
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For example, by being a fighter with wizard dedication you could easily achieve your goal.
Fighter with wizard dedication doesn't get a single spell slot until level 4 and needs to be at least 8 to have a reasonable number and is sucking up most of their feats in the process.
That absolutely does not achieve the goal even a little.
The only class that I missed personally was Oracle. It's my favorite base class...in any system. So I am looking forward to its return very much.
Looking over the list I didn't see much there that stirred up feelings. But I know some of my players want the Summoner back so that gets my vote.
-Summoner
In regards to the Gunslinger, I had many players in Pathfinder 1st edition who were interested in it but who then quickly became disinterested after reading how it actually worked. So, depending on how its revised, I could be convinced to get behind that.
It's really hard for me to choose, but probably
Kineticist
Gunslinger (actually kind of hate the drifter concept, mostly because
the name has loner connotations that I wouldn't want to reinforce. I've had enough edge lords wondering around doing their own adventures to last a lifetime; and I think Gunslingers have plenty to stand on their own. I'd be more swayed by a name change, but I think the name is a big part of what people have latched onto.)
Shifter. I love lycanthropes, so getting a way to approximate them would be awesome. I'd also like a renamed skinwalker ancestry, but I think shifter should 100% be it's own class.
Magus +1
Summoner: Already established in the lore and I think a lot could be done with it (though maybe some of the options for the "former outsiders" should be streamlined so we aren't looking for new eidolon entries every time the bestiaries add a new fiend/celestial etc). Personally I like the idea of them only using Focus spells for magic, though that would probably mean they would need more options to boost up the summoner as well and not just their eidolon. And as several have mentioned, the Spiritualist could fold into the Summoner (perhaps as one of the first examples of a class archetype).
Kineticist: Thematically one of my favorite classes, though I hated the fiddly bits of blasts being magic but not spells, but treated like spell levels etc, but there is a lot of that in PF2 already. Hopefully a more streamlined martial blaster/elemental fighter can be achieved.
Occultist: I really love the idea of the item tinkerer. And I would love to see psychic magic brought into the game earlier this time around to iron out any bugs and get more support (it was mentioned in the Inner Sea World Guide in PF1 and took until Occult Adventures to actually become a thing).
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+1 Gunslinger (preferably WITHOUT being able to constantly ignore armor)
a thought, what if guns where universally based on reflex save using the gunslingers DC rather than actual to hits at all?
+1 Occultist but make it martial.
Arcanist.
+1 Gunslinger (preferably WITHOUT being able to constantly ignore armor)a thought, what if guns where universally based on reflex save using the gunslingers DC rather than actual to hits at all?
That...would be interesting. And give all martials more use for their class DC.
Funny enough, that would make druids the best gun user out of all casting classes, because they're the only ones that even get trained in their class DC.
I make my own rules; you're getting three:
1. Kineticist
2. Summoner
3. Psion (a la 3.5)
Simply, they're the most fun classes I've played not in the game yet (and I've played them all).
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And as several have mentioned, the Spiritualist could fold into the Summoner (perhaps as one of the first examples of a class archetype).
Several people mentioned not liking the name Summoner, so could they all be brought into the Medium class?
Arcane Mediums would be 1st ed Summoners: pulling material from the Atral Plane and giving it shape as an Eidolon.
Psychic Mediums would have two paths- Bonding with the spirit ala the Spirtualist or drawing Astral energy into themselves like the 1st ed Medium.
The Psychic Knacks (0 level spells) seem mostly utilitarian, give them a extra couple of those and fewer regular spells to keep the PC useful and help balance things out.
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+1 Gunslinger (preferably WITHOUT being able to constantly ignore armor)a thought, what if guns where universally based on reflex save using the gunslingers DC rather than actual to hits at all?That...would be interesting. And give all martials more use for their class DC.
Funny enough, that would make druids the best gun user out of all casting classes, because they're the only ones that even get trained in their class DC.
Rather, it could just be an attack vs. Reflex DC instead of AC and based on your firearm proficiency. The only worry might be Fighter's ability to pull in a weapon category at higher Proficiency.
+1 Psychic
i was divided by psychic and arcanist but arcane sorcerer with the arcane evolution and wizard with spell substitution makes it less important
if you ask me what i really want would be either a pure spell caster arcane or occult with the ability to get immortality like the monk/druid, since i tend to role play as a rahadoum style atheist this feels like a important point to me
if i remember they used to heal themselves with mind over matter techniques so psychic would make sense but only if they get a immortality feat to avoid rotting in the graveyard of souls
maybe a feat related to them becoming a thought form like the old psychic bloodline or something like that
please just don't make the feat isn't made uncommon or rare
I'm not comfortable just choosing one, but if I have to, then my vote goes to...
the Magus (+1)
...for reasons already discussed by other pro-Magus advocates.
The rest of my list includes non-1e class concepts and looks like this:
2. Summoner - But, I would roll up the Spiritualist and Hunter class stuff into this with companion type determining the magic tradition like the Witch and Sorcerer. The master of the undead Necromancer-type everyone seems to really want to play from video games and fiction could even be a subclass for this, too, with multiple weak undead summons.
3. Runecaster - With the way runes have been utilized in Pathfinder 2E now, this would make an awesome Mystic Craftsman/Blacksmith and Magic Trapmaker/Engineer class. (Inspired by the AD&D 2nd edition class from the Viking Campaign Book, the Runeblade class from The Book of Experimental Might by Monte Cook, and the Runethane class from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved)
4. Elementalist (Kineticist) - I really want this class back with it's Avatar the Last Airbender vibes intact. But, I would like to see it get it's name changed, too.
5. Inquisitor/Slayer - I can see the Inquisitor being a Cleric doctrine, too. But, I think it has more potential to be an awesome Witcher and/or Buffy the Vampire Slayer -type class if it were to thematically combine aspects of the 1e Slayer into it, too. It could be the divine assassin/hunter class it deserves to be and it should have build options that encourage Anti-magic Witch Hunters and various specific creature type hunters like Giant Killers, Dragon Slayers, and Fey Huntsman.
6. Gunslinger/Whatever Alt name it is changed to - I can see both sides of the argument for this being a class vs. archetype, which just leaves me ambivalent either way it goes down. But, gun rules definitely need to happen sooner rather than later, one way or the other.
7. Shaman/Medium - I think the Medium was a very interesting class, but it was a little complex and the Shaman is a very cool concept and is one of the very oldest and most archetypal character concepts around. But, the Shaman was lacking in execution in 1e in my opinion and I think the shaman and medium hold similar ground in concept of their powers. Add to that the idea of pact magic, and possibly throw in some of the many concepts of the Binder that we have seen from Tome of Magic from 3e D&D, as well as some third party publishers, and I think we could see a very cool rendition of the Shaman with, perhaps a path/subclass that is more akin to the traditional medium of contemporary times. Talisman items from 2E would also make for a great and flavorful focus for the Shaman class to expand upon and specialize in, too.
8. Solarian/Soulknife - Solarian from Starfinder blended with Soulknife from the Psionics rules of older versions of this game inspired by Jedi? Yeah, this just simply needs to happen. :)
9. Occultist/Archivist - Sounds good to me! I would like to see a version of this class for the new edition. I think there is a lot that could potentially be done with the new design space of 2nd edition to address this class's themes and abilities.
10. Artificer - This is a concept that has been very popular since Eberron first came out and even before then. Pathfinder needs it, too.
11. Shifter - This class really needs its time to shine since it did not really get that in 1st edition since it did not get a playtest to make sure it was a good class prior to release. And, even if it were a really good class, it did not have time to ripen in the consciousness of the player base very much before the new edition came out. I have met quite a few players who never knew it existed.
12. Onomancer/Truenamer/Numerologist - Truename magic or it's equivialent, like comprehending the true pattern and underpinnings of the universe through understanding all relationships through math, or something similar, would be awesome and has had attempts made at it in the past (Truenamer from Tome of Magic in 3E D&D, and others). I would love to see the Pathfinder 2E take on this concept. But, don't call it Truenamer because, as a name for a class, it sucks.
My highest priority of classes to get back is Magus, followed by Kineticist, and finally Arcanist. I absolutely love gish characters, but 2e made them kinda clunky to make with out a lot of duct tape holding them together, so seeing a more clean method would make me very happy. Kineticist fill a niche that's wide open right now; war of attrition, which I think they fill beautifully from what I saw of them in 1e. Arcanist I only want because I hate Vancian with a passion, and I thought that their exploits were cool, and they (among a few others) paved the way for class feats as we know them now.
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I already voted on what I want to see. As to what I think/hope we will see:
1. Gunslinger
2. Summoner (or one of the other pet classes, but most likely summoner. Otoh, a Hunter would also be a Gish, and let them double dip on roles here)
These are the big rule gaps, so getting them printed sooner than later would be ideal. I personally would have wanted them ahead of the Swashbuckler or Investigator, but perhaps they had more than enough to chew on with the APG and making two very complex classes was not in the cards.
3. Shifter - unless I misread the hint that got dropped. This wouldn't have been one of my priorities, but I'm sure they have reasons. Ironing out how a non-casting caster would work might be worthwhile in its own right though.
4. Magus, Hunter, Inquisitor, or Occultist - Ideally the Magus or Inquisitor, as I think those are the two most straightforward of the gishes, and most likely to wind up with full 9-10 levels of casting one way or another. That said, with Eldritch Thief and Archer coming, putting in a Gish might not be a top priority. Which leads to:
5. Psychic or Shaman - A full caster with the ability to heal to round out the classes would be good. I would rather have a Gish, but if they decide to punt on that, either of these would work.
Don't think will be this year: Kineticist, Medium, Skald, Bloodrager, Arcanist - All of these would be cool, but I don't think they have the same kind of interest as the above classes, the Kineticist excepted. But I don't think we'll see that because I don't think Legendary would have hammered out their own conversion as far as releasing it as a product if one was in the pipeline (which says interesting things about the Inquisitor, actually).
Don't think we'll see ever: Slayer - I think the Assassin archetype took most of its mechanical lunch, leaving little room left for a full class. If this class comes back, it might be a while.
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what defines a shaman? I’m a fan of PF1 shaman, but it feels more like a combination of class features than a clearly defined concept, so im not really sure what i would expect from a PF2 shaman.+1 Psychic
Then Magus>Shaman>Summoner>Kineticist
Nature spirits, whereas Druids deal more with the physical.
I'd like for them to be spontaneous Nature casters.
what defines a shaman? I’m a fan of PF1 shaman, but it feels more like a combination of class features than a clearly defined concept, so im not really sure what i would expect from a PF2 shaman.+1 Psychic
Then Magus>Shaman>Summoner>Kineticist
Nature spirits, whereas Druids deal more with the physical.
I'd like for them to be spontaneous Nature casters.
I think it'd be neat if their wandering spirt determined their signature spell, letting you change that out regularly.
I originally thought they could do some of their spells known that way too, but that might be too complicated. Probably want to have the main spirit do that.
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what defines a shaman? I’m a fan of PF1 shaman, but it feels more like a combination of class features than a clearly defined concept, so im not really sure what i would expect from a PF2 shaman.+1 Psychic
Then Magus>Shaman>Summoner>Kineticist
Shaman as the spontaneous primal class. I’d like to see their roles as healers, envoys to the spirit world and mediators for their communities explored. Shamanic traditions are also rich with tales of shamanic vision quests and assuming a spirit form or shapeshifting. There is a lot of design space to explore here.
I agree that PF1 just felt like a pile of class abilities with nothing to tie them into a class and that was a huge letdown. I'd like the PF2 Shaman to be shamanic no matter where they come from, whether it's the mean streets of Absalom or the frigid tundras of the north.
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Well, it turns out that they just dropped the news:
Magus and Summoner will be the two next Classes supported with this release in the Secrets of Magic Hardcover released at Gen Con 2021.
Not very surprising at all, but figured I'd share since this thread has outlived its usefulness.
As much as I wanted to see the Summoner I am a little surprised, considering its reputation in 1e.
I'm a little disappointed that it will only be 2 classes, but happy enough that it is THESE two.
I am happy that it was my #1 and #2 picks. Magus and Summoner alongside Oracle, Alchemist and Witch are things that are synonymous with Pathfinder to me.
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Happy to see the Magus inbound.
Never really dug the Summoner, but seeing as Oracle went from a go-to in 1E to an, "eh, I'll just run a divine-casting Sorcerer instead" in 2E, I leave myself open to being pleasantly surprised.