Chain Mauler

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Isabelle Lee wrote:

I took a stab at doing that with the devil binder summoner from Adventurer's Guide (though it doesn't really change the summoner, only the eidolon). While it's devil- and Hellknight-specific in the book, it's modular enough that variants for other outsider types should be easy enough to manage.

Hopefully, if and when summoner hits PF2, that sort of option will be baked in and made more versatile. ^_^

Hmm...I will have to look into that. Admittedly I kinda glossed over that entry myself as I was deep into a campaign and tended to only look at new magic items or spells to reward my group with. Good to know!

I was always disappointed when a new player race (0 HD race) got introduced in a bestiary as there were not much information about these races and how they fit into the world in general. Some of the earlier ones eventually got some attention in companion books over the years, but those that came out later--I have little to no idea what to make of them (such as the vishkanya, astomoi or rougarou). In PF2, I kinda hope they reserve introducing new playable ancestries to books that can afford the space to really let us know more about them, especially if their basic idea is fairly far out from anything we might commonly experience in the game or other fantasy media.

Also I always wanted an unchained summoner with an eidolon that was more magic-based instead of physical and the summoner being tailored to being more of the combatant. Something like the eidolon with limited spells like abilities per day and replacing their STR boost with a CHA boost. Basically to create a healing/buffing angel eidolon or a hellfire hurling demon and so forth.

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I don't get into the whole debate about paladin alignment because everyone has their vision of how they see them and that's fine. But I'd like to ask the designers is there actually anything in the paladin toolbox mechanically that backs up the lawful alignment (aside from tenants)? I was easily able to house rule PF1 paladins as being any good alignment because mechanically there was little the core paladin got that even hinted at the lawful/chaotic axis.
They got Detect Evil (not Detect Chaos, like a Hellknight), Smite Evil, treat their weapons as good and gained DR/evil. The only ability that I remember that makes use of the lawful aspect of the class is being able to make your weapon axiomatic, which is in addition to a lot of other properties it could have. Do correct me if I am wrong.

Is this changing in PF2 with just as many lawful class feats as good? And if not, then it would seem the main "complications" of non-lawful good paladins is from a lore/legacy perspective (which again, many people have different visions of) and not necessarily a mechanical one. If that is the case, giving the option for it in the final game (not the playtest) wouldn't seem to be a huge step.

Obviously I don't know about all the moving pieces that are at play here as there might be some other mechanical reasons this isn't immediately viable since we don't know the full rules. And if there are no changes towards the law spectrum, it's easy enough for me to house rule in the future just as I did for PF1, but I would be interested in the thoughts behind the decision.

I basically started with Fate and Savage Worlds in my old group before doing True 20 and finally just running my own Pathfinder game. I wouldn't consider your opinion as "wrong". What might be fun for a lot of other people may simply not be your cup of tea. It doesn't make either side wrong, but some people have more fun playing in one style than another. So I'll try to hit up the points that attracted me to Pathfinder while I was playing Fate. However, it might best be summed up by saying that most of the reasons are mechanical. You mentioned being able to see the character's story in Traveller as you made him. In Pathfinder, it's definitely more about building the mechanics of how the character plays, not so much who the character is. Having an idea and finding the class/archetype that gives abilities to support that idea and the selection of feats to back that up and seeing it all come together can be a journey unto itself, but ultimately it doesn't tell you a lot about who the character is, just how the character plays.

Mechanical Progression: This is certainly nothing new to most RP systems (D20 in particular), but when advancing a character in the Fate game I was part of, there were no "levels" to speak of so when you progressed it really meant you got better at a skill or two or you had to really talk it over with the GM if you wanted a new perk or the like. In Pathfinder, clearly seeing what abilities I would get at what level and knowing how things would progress allowed me to look forward to leveling up a lot more.

Numerous Races: I honestly have never really cared for the "core" races--the ones that are in almost every Western fantasy setting. Elves, dwarves, some version of hobbits etc. Pathfinder has released a lot of different races suitable for player characters over the years, some with much more in-world definition than others admittedly, and without added rules like level adjustment. As someone who loves the idea of the plane-touched races this was a welcome opportunity.

Class Customization: While most classes did offer a fair bit of movable parts in the Core Rules, it was when archetypes were implemented that I really wanted to play Pathfinder! Before, if I wanted to play a class, but there were just some elements of it that I didn't see as part of my character or didn't want to bother with I was still stuck with those abilities. The archetypes allowed me to refine my idea, find something that better fit what I wanted to do. And now with so many other classes introduced over the years, it's hard to find a concept that you can't at least get close to mechanically.

Linsolv wrote:

I've read a little of Rise of the Runelords and liked what they were trying to do, but at the same time, my experience with written adventures is only the first adventure or so of Horde of the Dragon Queen, and my players HATED it. Too many leaps of logic where the writer just wanted the players to be herded like sheep, when any game master will tell you they're not sheep, they're cats.

I can't speak to the total of APs (I've only run one and am in the middle of another thus far and I make heavy changes to them) but my opinion is that a lot of pre-written adventures (APs in particular due to their length) require a certain degree of buy-in and suspension of disbelief to be run as is. If you don't have time to sit down and homebrew an adventure but want something long term, that is what APs are there for. But by the same token, they can't be everything to every character and obviously a character can at any time just decide to go do something else instead of what's presented no matter how many flashing neon signs are pointing to plot thread. Thus the players have to be willing to accept that it is likely to be somewhat railroady--otherwise there wouldn't be much of a way to write an overall arc. If the players aren't up to that social contract, then perhaps APs just aren't what they're looking for and making up the adventure as you go is needed instead.

Hmm...tough question.

Sandman (Bard)--I love the spellthief concept, and while I think thematically it fits better for a rogue, making it a bard with some rogue additions allows for less explaining of rules as bards already have spellcasting.

Skirmisher (Ranger)--Honestly, as a GM almost every ranger I make is a skirmisher or trapper. I don't really care for ranger magic and the skirmisher really gives some interesting options for combat whether its using an animal companion or not and regardless of fighting style.

Flowing Monk (monk)--I would say Qinggong, but that is pretty much handled with the Unchained monk, but monk had a lot of good archetypes that did not port over easily to unchained. The defensive counter attack options of Flowing monk is one of them. I think it worked well for creating a different style of fighting for the character.

Tinkerer (alchemist)--I kinda feel this is the closest to an actual machinist or artificer we got. Would love a version of this that is expanded on a bit more.

Serpent fire Adept (monk)--I really wish the chakra points system worked better. The saves were just too high for their payoff, especially compared to what could already be gained by Qinggong powers or the Unchained monk. But I would love to play a monk that is a master of chakra points--not just his own but his enemy's as well (way back in the day there was a Dragon magazine article that gave the monk pressure point attacks)

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I'm in the camp with restricting Raise Dead but making PC dying more difficult. I didn't like that in my previous campaign death was just a speedbump and had no gravity to any situation. It just broke my immersion when party members had no problem picking a fight with a huge dragon but everyone in the party would abandon an area just at the signs that there were rust monsters nearby (because Raise Dead and two Restorations is cheaper than that +3 weapon I bought!)
So for the next campaign I made changes to how long it would take them to fall permanently but made it clear that coming from the back from the dead was fairly rare and risky. Divine casters straight up won't entertain the idea if person in question is of an opposed alignment or ideology to their faith or risk losing their own divine abilities (and even if they are of a similar or same faith, they may ask for something besides monetary compensation such as vowing to spread the word of their faith, doing some work on their behalf etc).

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Technically I use Artistry and Lore in my games, but they are mostly for NPCs as my players rarely put anything into them (but to be fair, my players don't use Craft, Profession or Perform in the first place either). I'm on board with what Benjamin posted, using Artistry for creating those works that aren't tangibles (like composing music, poetry, or being a playwright).
For Lore, to me it helps fine tune ideas when I think the Knowledge skills are too broad for me. If want a character to know about black dragons (my lore options tend to be a bit broader than the examples the book gives), but there's no reason for him to know about magic in general then Lore (black dragons) fits better than Knowledge (arcana). When there's an xenophobic elven character that is only concerned about the history of his people and doesn't' care about the broader history of other races, Lore (Elven history) works better for me than making something where I give an arbitrary penalty to his Knowledge (History) regarding other races--that sort of thing. Then as a house rule I lower the DC of Lore checks compared to their Knowledge equivalent--if you're more specialized in your study (and if you've spent the points to be more specialized) then I feel you should come across information much easier than when you're casting a broad net.

quibblemuch wrote:

It’s two different thoughts, combined into one sentence.

1. You can’t use it if you’re immune to confusion.
2. If you’re NOT immune to confusion and you use the ability (which makes you confused), you can try to remove the confusion (if you get the “act normally” option).

If that's the case, what would be the benefit of it? The confusion only lasts 1 round. If you use the ability and are confused and roll "act normally", then you can just go about doing what you normally would. There's no need to remove it because it'll be gone on your next turn.

Maybe someone can help me parse this. I'm making a villain with the Voice of the Void archetype for the Medium (Villain's Codex). However, the Surge of the Void ability has a bit of text that I find confusing.


Surge of the Void (Su): The voice of the void can use spirit surge additional times per day without incurring influence, but each time he does, he is confused for 1 round. If this confusion would cause him to babble, he can instead act normally, but his emissary gains 1 point of influence over him. The voice of the void can’t use this ability if he is immune to confusion, but he can remove the confused condition when he is affected by it. This temporary confusion clearly indicates the voice of the void isn’t fully in control, so if he uses this power on a Diplomacy check in a negotiation, for example, it might prejudice the other party against him regardless of his check result.

Emphasis mine. I can understand that a creature immune to confusion would be unable to use this ability, but why the part about removing confusion? If the character is immune to confusion, when would he ever be affected by it? Does anyone else have any insight into how this bit of the ability is supposed to work if a character is immune to confusion?

Meraki said wrote:

How I do it:

Anything that has the same stats (and thus the same initiative modifier) goes on the same initiative count. Things with different stats get different initiative counts (even if by coincidence they do happen to have the same initiative modifier).

So if I have 6 orc warriors, 2 orc casters, and one orc commander, they'll have three spots on the initiative count total, with the warriors going at the same time, the casters going at the same time, and the commander going on their own.

This is how I do it as well. I've never had the issues with the enemies swarming and flanking the PCs as mentioned (it happens, but I wouldn't call it a problem) as this also has the drawback of the enemies not being able to adequately respond to what the PCs do because their turns are clumped up. Say the orc mages act before the commander (using Meraki's example). The orc mages take their turn, then the witch PC puts the commander to sleep. Now they all have to wait until their next turn for one of them to go over and wake him up, whereas with individual initiatives there's a chance at least one of them still has a turn after this happens. Similar could be said for if the enemy commander needs healing from his minions needs but his clerics have all taken their turn already etc. So kinda six of one, half a dozen of the other for me.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Off the top of my head, this is the background of an important NPC in Paizo's

That's interesting. Thanks! That is actually the kind of information I was looking for so I know I'm not completely imagining things (this is for an NPC I'm creating that is a tiefling without actually having fiendish ancestry).

I guess APs should be another place I look. Maybe I ran across it in one of them or a Player's Guide.

Maybe someone can help me out here, or at least tell me I'm not remembering things correctly.

At one point I recalled reading that not all tieflings are the result of breeding with fiendish entities. Sometimes they are born simply by parents/ancestors making a pact with such fiends, or they are born in an environment tainted by evil etc. However, I can't find this premise anymore. I thought it might be in Inner Sea Races or Blood of Fiends but didn't find mention of it in those. Does anyone else recall this being a thing, and if so can you direct me to where it was stated? Or is my memory just faltering?

Wow...just wow. Sounds like the word of Ogreclease needs to spread through the Mindspin Mountains.

I grouped the Improved feats together basically so they serve as a gateway to doing combat maneuvers without such a steep cost. Sunder, drag, over run and bull rush are one feat and reposition, disarm, trip, and dirty trick are another (Improved grapple stays by itself as the odd man out for needing a different prerequisite with Improved Unarmed Strike).

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I would love this. The blog on poison (and then later the one on darkness) really helped me. For starting GMs there is a lot of stuff to keep in mind and players always seem to find some odd thing that you didn't prepare for. At this point with all the rules, feats, spells, class abilities etc it is really easy to second guess yourself when starting out--you don't want to cheat the players out of something cool, but you also don't want to set the precedent for something working one way that will have a domino effect on some other part of the game later (I'm still trying to parse ranger camouflage vs hide in plain sight with the stealth skill as it is written). Any experienced input, especially from devs, is always welcome.

You can add additional (non-monetary) costs to the casting of death-reversing spells--items for which the group either has to undertake a quest to find (phoenix feathers or essence of an elder elemental) or things that can be found only through morally shady means (angel blood that an evil faith is willing to part with, or that not-quite-trustworthy trader who can score unicorn horn in exchange for a future favor). This can make bringing a character back to life an adventure in itself (making it less a speedbump and more of a hurdle), but it could also mean the player needing to be revived is playing an NPC for a while till his character is back up and at 'em.

Or it could be particularly risky for both the revived and/or the caster to bring souls back from the dead. There was a random effect chart around here somewhere(in homebrew I believe) for character's coming back from the dead--anything from becoming albino to gaining negative energy affinity to possibly pulling something from the beyond with you (roll for initiative!) If even the caster could risk drawbacks from the spell, they might be more averse to giving them out like candy.
Actually, you might even turn these spells into occult rituals (see Occult Adventures) so they are much more difficult without multiple people, always have a backlash and are much worse if they fail.

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This was used all the time by my players to an infuriating degree. Having a way to have a safe place to sleep, but for the level of the spell this always seemed a bit much to me. The players could see out, but creatures outside could not see in. The extradimensional space is not limited in actual size but by how many creatures can occupy it so even if a larger enemy or creature tried to sneak up on them in the space, they could be outnumbered (or the party would just bring in small creatures with them to reach the max occupancy and prevent anyone from entering). Having a way to sleep more safely in a lengthy dungeon crawl is fine, but it became the "normal" way for the party to sleep (like they would get a room at an inn and then cast rope trick in their room that night).

CBDunkerson wrote:

I've heard of the theory that you just cast rope trick, climb up, and take a nap in the middle of a dungeon / enemy camp / whatever... but I've never understood how that makes any sense.

Why exactly wouldn't the monsters notice this and set traps / ambush for when you inevitably emerged?

While Guru has a point, the issue I ran into was the fact that the group could see outside of the space while the creatures on the outside could not. They could see what was there and buff/plan accordingly while the the enemies on the outside are left to guess as to what could come out. I did eventually start having the enemies lay out traps far away from the rope trick so they were out of sight or changing the environment to get ready for a fight.

All penalties I know off the top of my head have been untyped. And is there any major benefit to being able to ignore a morale bonus, or is this only useful in really specific corner cases?

I posted this to the rules section, but maybe I can get more input here as well since the feat appears in this book.

Does the Dead Inside story feat actually give any real benefit for completion? It says you can ignore any morale bonuses or penalties applied to you by outside forces, but are there any morale penalties in the game?

I found the Dead Inside story feat in Agents of Evil and was curious if anyone else had clarification on the completion benefit.

Dead Inside completion benefit wrote:

You master your emotions. You can ignore any morale bonuses or penalties applied to you by outside forces, though other emotion-based effects (such as the shaken condition or an elixir of love) still affect you if you fail a saving throw against them

So you can avoid morale penalties, but can anyone cite anything that actually gives you morale penalties? Most penalties I've run across are untyped. Since you can still be affected by other emotion effects and I can't really think of any obvious situations where you would choose to ignore a bonus, this doesn't seem like much of a benefit. Input on this would be appreciated.

Well I think there's a big difference between "game breaking" and "game changing". For new GMs a discussion of game changing spells is useful. For instance, Fly is a game changing spell. Before players have access to it, flying enemies are much more of a threat. Climbing and difficult terrain challenges are much less an issue. When the group gains Teleport, those treks in the wilderness between towns are practically non-existant. These don't "break" the game but definitely change how the group approaches things and what the GM should put in front of them.

I do this for my group, but tend to lean towards feats they wouldn't necessarily take themselves but that could still be pretty thematic or useful for the character. The Story feats work well for this as the characters usually meet the prerequisites of at least one or two. Also, since I limit the players in the books they can pull from I will occasionally throw out an NPC that can teach them a feat from one of the books outside of their usual selection.

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My problem with Suggestion is that it's not terribly difficult to come up with a suggestion that takes a character out of the combat, but if used on a player that basically just leaves the player there twiddling his thumbs (having been on the receiving end of that, I know it's no fun, especially for the duration of the spell or if combat goes on for a while). So I try to use suggestions that at least can keep the player in the game instead of shutting them down, even if it isn't the wisest option for the character to use. I've used variations of some of those mentioned ("it's really hot here. You should remove your armor."), but I look forward to seeing more that significantly hinder the characters rather than completely taking them out of the fight.

"Your clumsy greatswords and arrows will never be able to pierce me. You'll need the precision of a dagger." (used on those that really focus on the damage of their heavy weapons.)

"That last spell you cast used up the last of the contents of your spell component pouch. You'll have to rely on spells without components or other methods."

"Your friends are taking significant damage. Focus exclusively on healing them." (used on clerics to expend their channel energy and spell slots to heal allies during battle instead of attacking. Whether they use up their higher level slots to heal minor HP loss, using channel energy to heal everyone when on only 1 ally is injured, or expending charges out of a wand, they end up casting instead of attacking).

"Your archer/mage friend is very vulnerable. You should stay beside them and protect them from anyone getting close." (used on the heaviest melee damage dealer, effectively putting him in the back and out of range where he is less of a threat)

"Oh no! Not fire (or cold, electricity or acid etc)--my one true weakness! That is the only attack you have that is effective so only use fire attacks!" (used by someone immune to fire or with high resistance.

I did like Valeros' sense of humor in this book. And that ending has me eager for more!!

I reiterate the above sentiments: awesome preview! Sounds like the type of shop my character would frequent.

Since you can't "auto fail" on a roll of a natural 1 on a skill check, a character with a +10 Acrobatics can easily jump 10 feet horizontally (once he rolls, his check will be a minimum of 11). The DC for an acrobatics check to jump a horizontal distance is equal to the distance covered

Acrobatics from the PRD wrote:

Finally, you can use the Acrobatics skill to make jumps or to soften a fall. The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical). These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start.

So someone with a +50 can jump AT LEAST 50 ft from the start and as they level up this is going to get more absurd as they put more skill points into it (or take Skill Focus or other traits/feats/class abilities to increase their skill). Imagine a monk spending ki on top of this.

So yeah, I agree with the others. Considering the skills will get better as the characters level, something like free Skill Focus would be fine. A +10 at the start is still a HUGE bonus and higher than that means a lot of challenges are going to be negated completely. Keep in mind that with such a bonus, you could be creating a large gap between what party members are capable of. If you are challenging the party, it's pretty much an auto success for the skilled character, but if challenging the skilled character the party will be kinda SOL (granted this is more an issue for some skills than others, particularly contested skills like Stealth and Perception)

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Honestly I'd love a new one if for no other reason that to pull all the magic items in the rest of the APs and modules into one place. There have been several magic items that I've just happened upon in looking through APs that I have given to my players because they fit the theme of the game or the character, but I would've never known about them if I wasn't just idly looking through APs which I otherwise had no interest in running. Granted that's not enough for a new full-on hardback release (and there are only so many new weapons, armor and alchemical items you can add before you're really getting into minutiae) but having a resource that puts them all together like UE did would be helpful. A player companion "Equipment of the Inner Sea" or something would work just as fine for me.
I also would've loved it they reprinted all the crafting rules together in one section in UE as that could be useful as well for creating new items but that boat has sailed.

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Good on you! That made me ha-ha.

I ran a Shattered Star campaign (that got changed a lot from the actual AP). Catfolk are native to Varisia (or more specifically the Storval Plateau region and badlands) and are constantly fighting against the Shoanti tribes.

Kobolds are not evil (well, no more so than humans usually) and are well integrated into societies. They usually serve as advisers and clerks to the scaleless humans despite their grandiose claims of draconic birthright.

I used a lot of the shadar-kai lore from 4e for the fetchlings (including the name because it like it more). They are more of a disenfranchised people among human settlements because of their ties to shadow and tend to fierce individualism and thrill seeking thanks to dulled senses (which also falls into how they seek the extremes offered by Zon-Kuthon's teachings).

The elemental planes can bleed into the Material plane through areas where their affinity is strongest, creating unpredictable and often violent incursions of elemental energy in the region.

Runelord Xanderghul built an underground city and vault inside Karzoug's territory under his nose. He left his second-in-command there to guard over it but abandoned the site before Earthfall. Created a new sword of sin for Xanderghul's new general and he ended up being the final encounter of the campaign (riding atop a gargantuan colossus that was formed from one of the submerged Irespan pillars that now stands in Magnimar's harbor).

The Immolator (inquisitor archetype for ifrits) has a judgment that lets them treat a target's fire resistance as lower.

I'd love to see some 0HD lawful and chaotic outsiders to go with the usual good/evil of aasimars and tieflings.

Awesome! This is probably the first "Blood of" book I've looked forward to.

I absolutely allow it and was grateful they put it in the game! The only things I found that kinda break verisimilitude are retraining something like sorcerer bloodlines since they are something innate in the character (even before he decided to become an adventurer) and might have even had story or backstory built around it. Granted you could always change to something similar and it wouldn't cause much of an issue.
Retraining does allow the implementation of new PF materials without making a completely new character. If you're several levels into a campaign with a class that is kinda sorta what you wanted but not quite, and then they release a book with an archetype that gives you exactly what you wanted, you can retrain into that archetype.
Also, PF is a huge game and it's easy to misunderstand or overlook how some options work or interact with other options. If a player chooses a feat or other option that sounded better on paper than in practice, they shouldn't have to be handicapped by that for the rest of their character lives.
And HP training, essentially getting tougher, is probably the least intrusive of the retraining considering it just raises your current max HP by 1. Most of my players found it seldom worth the time and money...unless you just really rolled horrendously for HP.

Caulborn (and Chrestomath). Been waiting for something to beef up their mind abilities.

Yeah, illusions can be tricky to deal with depending on the GM and how creative the players are. The first thing I'd suggest is to get familiar with the types of illusions and their limitations in the CRB. The "image" line of spells are figments.


Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).

Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.

And what happens on saves vs illusions


Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

What "interact with" has been debated since the 3.5 days, though most seem to take it as the character must use some action to investigate it (usually a standard action).

So for your examples (and again, expect table variation because illusion spells really depend on the interpretation of the GM, but here's my take):
A.) The lion (or creature) does not need to make a will save unless it interacts with the wall in some way. This might fool creatures with animal intelligence or lower and get them to turn away, but if they have other senses such as scent or tremor sense that might cause them to sense the party on the other side they might just as easily interact with the illusion. More intelligent creatures that see the spell being cast might try to interact with it as soon as the wall appears to make sure if it's real or not (magic can do a lot of things). In either case, once they interact with it, they can make a save. However, if given proof that it is an illusion (such as their hand passing through the wall), they automatically disbelieve.

B.) I'm not familiar with Tangible Image, but with Shadow Conjuration it would seem plausible since shadow illusion spells conjure semi-real material that can affect the Material plane. Having someone create an object and then having others fail the save to disbelieve it means they think it is real enough and can interact with it. Maybe someone else has insight on this one.

C.) Nope. See above. Figments cannot cause damage. Though for role play purposes they might think they are burning, but no actual damage is done

D.) I don't know if there's a definite answer on this one but I would lean towards no. Generally spells shouldn't be able to replicate spells of higher level. Also, in line with the above, "image" spells don't cause any real physical effect as they are not real

I'm still testing out some things. I really love the new poison/disease rules thus far. Makes them an actual threat now and for me it fits better with story elements such as nobility being assassinated by poison or epidemics breaking out.
Automatic progression is something I've wanted since starting Pathfinder. For the players it works well and boosts NPCs with class levels up a bit since I don't have to worry about loading them with lootable gear to make them a challenge to the players. Haven't experimented with how it will affect creatures with class levels though.
Background skills (and the two new skills) are interesting but haven't had many of them come up in play yet.
Monk is a step in the right direction, but since it invalidates all the archetypes it's kind of a mixed back. The rogue with skill unlocks has been great though.
I'm still heavily underwhelmed by the stamina pool. Thus far the abilities just feel a bit lackluster, adding numbers instead of interesting new options (like some of the skill unlocks).

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Admittedly the original medium was one of the classes that turned me off of the Occult classes due to the complexity of so many spirits. The new version sounds AWESOME though with some really cool variations in the archetypes! Really looking forward to Occult Adventures now!

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-Vancian Casting: Oh dear heavens I would love to be rid of the "spells per day" for something like a mana pool or casting simply requiring fatigue saves by the caster or something else.

-Ability Scores: Just use the modifiers

-Magical items/WBL etc: If the +whatever bonuses are really needed, then just make them inherent to character progression. I'd rather imagine my character getting more awesome rather than he found a better sword while his actual skill hasn't changed.

-Fewer bonus types: so many different bonus types just to figure out what stacks with what.

-Iterative attacks: I'd rather see this removed and replaced with something that keeps combat quick and allows for more mobility in combat for everyone, not just those with specific feats

-Broader feats and spells: Every new product introduces at least a few (usually a lot) of new feats and spells, many of which have very circumstantial uses or just give a bit of improvement over the previous version. And then there's the whole unnecessary feat tree/feat tax issue. I'd rather see a lot of these simplified into single feats or spells that automatically get stronger as you level.

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I find it more humorous that Seoni finds her way onto the (temporary) cover of the Weapon Master book instead of any of the martial characters.

Since this is the first hardcover being released after Pathfinder Unchained, I am curious if the Unchained material will be addressed in any way in these pages. Particularly the Unchained monk (since he deals with ki, which is apparently covered in the book), Unchained Summoner (since the Unchained version will be the only version available in Society play) and possible Stamina Pool uses if there are new combat feats.

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I've actually thought about this as well (since they started introducing the other characters in the comics), but I probably wouldn't separate the character's by what book they appear in, especially since Seltiyel was first the iconic EK before becoming a Magus.
The party I'd like to see is

Alain, Damiel, Freiya, Lem, Alahazra, Amiri.
Poor Alain is everyone's whipping boy (and deservedly so). With Alahazra and Freiya it could be interesting having these characters that have these great powers from a force outside of deities (as far as they know) and how they interact with a world that may have a more limited view on magic sources.
Most likely leader: Freiya or Alahazra

Sajan, Seelah, Seltiyel, Imrijka, Balazar, Lirrianne
I'd be interested in seeing Seelah and Imrijka interact or Sajan and Seelah interacting (their views on redemption and their stance on being "lawful")
Most likely leader: Seelah

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I'd love one fully in Tian Xia. Really give us a chance to pull out ninja, samurai, monks and some Eastern-themed archetypes in their native environment.

Vudra/Jalmeray would be a close second.

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Morzadian wrote:

Should all character classes get skill unlocks or should it be strictly a rogue thing?

A bit of a conundrum as skill unlocks definitely make the rogue class more appealing but there are many other classes who rely on skills, like the Bard and Investigator.

I'm gonna keep it just for rogues. The other classes usually already have something going for them, whether its spells or whatever. And one of the things people kept complaining about with the rogue was other classes basically taking what the rogue does (via archetypes granting trapfinding, sneak attack etc) and still getting nice class features so I wanna keep this as one of the special things only the rogue gets (at least until they start releasing archetypes that steal it too!)

Deadmanwalking wrote:

I'm currently planning on giving rogue's an additional Unlock at 1st level, and lowering all level requirements by 5 (to a minimum of 1st level). So, 1, 5, 10, 15. That looks workable to me, and not notably broken as compared to, y'know, spell casting.

Theoretically, I should probably design new capstones at 20, but to be honest I've never played a game that hit 20th level, so it seems less necessary than it might. Also, I like the idea of custom effects of a skill unlock if you ever do reach that level.

That sounds interesting. If you get to the top ranks in the skill it gives you time to play around with it getting it at 15 instead of 20. I may try this as well but won't bother with a 20th lvl. version.

So would you give them the class ability at 1st level, or keep it at 5 and give them the two unlocks when they get the ability?

I'm a bit disappointed that most of them really work to just decrease or remove penalties instead of giving new uses for skills. Perhaps something such as using Sleight of Hand to distract an opponent so you can use it in place of Bluff for feinting. I'm cool with high ranks in skills being able to simulate low level spells even. I can definitely see some getting chosen almost always and others almost never getting chosen.

Finally being able to take a look at the unchained monk myself, I definitely like it better but still don't feel it went far enough. Particularly I'm disappointed that the bonus feats were not expanded. With the advent of the other books post-CRB I would've thought this list would've expanded a bit (especially since the unchained monk doesn't work with previously released archetypes, some of which replaced or expanded the bonus feats) or with the importance of Ki now, adding the Extra Ki feat to the list.

I may end up tweaking Ki strikes so they work similarly to the unchained rogue's Finesse Training (using Wis for dmg to unarmed strikes as long as you have 1 ki point and adding a new monk weapon at the appropriate levels)

Seems like a good place to finally have some ninja and samurai archetypes as well as replacement archetypes for the unchained monk.

Don't think I've seen it addressed yet, but are the Unchained Barbarian and Monk still restricted by alignment?

Then the obvious concern would be as new feats are added in upcoming releases, will they also be given combat tricks?

I wonder if Shadow Strike will be given to the rogue so human rogues can shank people in dark alleys without spending a feat.

Also a rather random question that probably won't be able to be answered until after the book is out but...
with the new eidolon base forms being outsiders instead of random hodgepodge, what would Balazar's (iconic summoner) eidolon based on? Protean?

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