This looks interesting.
I would be very interested in an alternate post-apocalyptic Golarion "failed omens world guide" in which Golarion is reeling from the successive shocks of every AP's worst case scenario coming to pass. Probably at odds with what you have planned for the core setting, but a later supplement perhaps?
... some APs are pretty low key from a historical point if the PCs win (which is going to be the assumption for all of them, I suspect... I'm not too fond of hard-coding into the campaign something that says YOUR PLAYER CHARCTERS ARE FAILURES by assuming one of the Adventure Paths is a canonically regarded a failure...).
There is a thread on the forums where people posted their ideas for the worst resolutions for all of the adventure paths.
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What i don't like about this product is that it's only 126 pages (the Inner Sea World Guide has 320 pages, Starfinder Pact Worlds has 216).
A standard Pathfinder AP has 96 pages.
Even if i assume that the "Races", "Religion", "Life", "Factions", "Adventuring" & "Monsters" chapters have been moved into the CRB & Bestiary (as Golarion is now the standard setting), the previous "The Inner Sea" chapter had 180 pages.
If i only count the old 41 regions, 4 pages each, i come up to 164 pages.Now that we have 10 regions we only need one map for four regions, which clears up some more space.
But if i take into account that we get backgrounds & archetypes, i can't shake the feeling that something will be left on the cutting room floor.
As someone who has the old inner sea hardcover, I don't really need most of that info repeated. If this serves to mostly "update" that book, I will be pretty happy.
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Paizo has already stated they don't want to release multiple different campaign settings and Alternate Universes/Timelines count as that <_<
Like I'm just glad if we ever see the full worldmap of Golarion pre earthfall :P I don't need detailed campaign setting book on world around the time, but having the map would be nice for time travel or AU "Hey let's place on world were Earthfall never happened" home campaigns
I've got a photoshop mock-up I did of the inner sea pre-earthfall if you're interested.
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Not a fan of poetic license in the main campaign setting book.... That's the sort of thing that needs to be clear.We're talking about Aroden, here. Understood that there's a bit of a conflict with Pharasma. Let's chalk it up to "poetic license."
It's the blurb. On the website. Chill.
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Not a fan of poetic license in the main campaign setting book.... That's the sort of thing that needs to be clear.We're talking about Aroden, here. Understood that there's a bit of a conflict with Pharasma. Let's chalk it up to "poetic license."
It's poetic license in the solicitation blurb. The book's info itself is plenty clear.
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Three thoughts:
1) Hurray! We finally get a full global map!
2) The timeline is going to be advanced and world events updated for all the APs that have come out. So some things will be different, some plot threads from the ISWG resolved, others left with ramifications and open ends (and so kicking off new adventures). But will we also see completely new plot hooks being written into the setting? Presumably, since the timeline has only advanced by a decade, that would necessitate these original story threads tie in to regions outside the Inner Sea, even if the adventures are still going to occur there (would this be one of the reasons for a full map?).
3) We're calling it "Lost Omens"? And partitioning the setting into 10 regions? Why? Honest question: why decide that the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, successfully referred to as "the Pathfinder Campaign Setting" for a solid IRL decade, needed to have another name and needed any partitioning? Because this honestly reminds me of the whole "we're not calling them 'races'; instead, they're going to be called 'ancestries'" thing.
1) Yup! I'm pretty delighted with how it turned out.
2) There'll be a LOT of new plot hooks in there. My general philosophy there is "Each time you resolve a plot hook, introduce two more to take it's place."
3) We're calling it the "Age of Lost Omens" because campaign settings do well with evocative names. "Pathfinder Campaign Setting" is dry—there's no poetry to it. "Inner Sea Region" is boring and is unnecessarily constrictive since we do plenty of stuff outside of that region. "Golarion" doesn't tell anyone anything if they haven't already read the book—as do most other nonsense words. "Age of Lost Omens" Is something that everyone understands, and those who are already invested in the setting know what it means, and it doesn't imply a restriction to only one part of the setting.
As for splitting it into 10 settings, that lets us cover things more efficiently than dealing with 40+ areas, and also lets us spend time discussing wilderness areas easier, and smaller nations don't get weirdly more info than larger nations. Plus it's going to be a LOT easier to expand upon. It's not a "Let's get rid of a fraught and kinda gross old-fashioned word like 'race' as much as it is a "let's organize things better so that going forward we'll be able to make more focused books." It's kinda hard to explain without showing it... which we will eventually, so stay tuned there.
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I can answer that now: All of them. :P
Not that all of them will have resolutions wide-ranging or notable enough to be mentioned in this book though... some APs are pretty low key from a historical point if the PCs win (which is going to be the assumption for all of them, I suspect... I'm not too fond of hard-coding into the campaign something that says YOUR PLAYER CHARCTERS ARE FAILURES by assuming one of the Adventure Paths is a canonically regarded a failure...).
Mr. Jacobs i'm not totally agree with you on this.
Even if is awesome to have, finally, an advanced setting i want to ask you if there are even a small chance that people (like me) who are playing a "Grand Campaign" spanning all your APs will find at least suggestion, even small, on how to implement bad endings in PF2 setting.
For example, in my grand campaign, The Worldwound is still open since the Characters failed to kill deskari and we are totally fine with this since this mean our game and our story is even more "unique".
I understand that the setting for Pathfinder 2 will be (and has to be) one and only one...but at least some ideas, here and there, or small suggestion on some (if not all) bad endings will be great!
We put suggestions on how to implement bad endings into EVERY Adventure Path. That information is already there if you own the last volume of the Adventure Path in question.
We can't customize the setting for every table. We have to choose one of an infinite number of choices, and it's the most logical to choose the one that's most likely to exist, since most groups who complete an Adventure Path do so successfully.
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I've got a photoshop mock-up I did of the inner sea pre-earthfall if you're interested.Paizo has already stated they don't want to release multiple different campaign settings and Alternate Universes/Timelines count as that <_<
Like I'm just glad if we ever see the full worldmap of Golarion pre earthfall :P I don't need detailed campaign setting book on world around the time, but having the map would be nice for time travel or AU "Hey let's place on world were Earthfall never happened" home campaigns
Thanks, but its kinda impossible to know what Azlant looked like before Earthfall since we don't even know shape of their borders(iirc) :'D Still nice of you to offer
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We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :P
Me too. Heck, I'd probably buy an actual globe, if you made one.
Would have been nice to have gotten this at least a couple of years ago.
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We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PMe too. Heck, I'd probably buy an actual globe, if you made one.
We don't have the expertise to make globes, and I have no idea how much it would cost to make one and thus how much it would cost for a customer to buy... but the map we have now gives us an image we can use to decorate a globe with ease so this is now possible. I have an animated GIF version of said map on said globe here that I hope to some day show off.
Looking forward to it!
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This looks really cool. I really like the way the campaign setting has gradually evolved/grown/been revised since the first APs, through the gazetteer, campaign guide and then ISWG. Breaking the world into chunks is a good balance between big picture world stuff and super-detailed/restrictive focus on individual nations.
I hope these continue to focus on lore over rules, personally.
A hardcover is always good for me. Wished such a book would be beefier in size like with the ISWG for PF1 though, but oh well.
At least it has juicy crunch tailor made for immersion in the updated Gol..er, Lost Omens campaign setting.
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We don't have the expertise to make globes, and I have no idea how much it would cost to make one and thus how much it would cost for a customer to buy... but the map we have now gives us an image we can use to decorate a globe with ease so this is now possible. I have an animated GIF version of said map on said globe here that I hope to some day show off.We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PMe too. Heck, I'd probably buy an actual globe, if you made one.
Please show us that gif/globe when you can. :-)
I too would buy an actual globe up to the $100-$150 range.
Maybe you could publish a software version with manual rotation/zoom features?
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I am not glad it is being done now since it is second edition and I have no use for it now.
We put suggestions on how to implement bad endings into EVERY Adventure Path. That information is already there if you own the last volume of the Adventure Path in question.We can't customize the setting for every table. We have to choose one of an infinite number of choices, and it's the most logical to choose the one that's most likely to exist, since most groups who complete an Adventure Path do so successfully.
Ofcourse you can't and i'm not asking this. I know there is already more suggestions to implement a bad ending in the APs.
Anyway i think that what are you saying is no one of those suggestions will have any furter exploration neither they will be kept in mind to avoid obligatory retcon from our side.Like my example about the Worldwound:
In PF 2 the Worldwound is closed, in my Grand Campaign is not.
Thank you for you answer
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Sometimes it is better so say nothing than to say something unhelpful.
By the way, it seems this is the first iteration of the main campaign setting book (not counting the Gazetteer) not to feature Tar-Baphon on its cover.
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Like my example about the Worldwound:
In PF 2 the Worldwound is closed, in my Grand Campaign is not.
Per Doomsday Dawn, the Worldwound is closed, but it will take decades to rid it of all the demons.
If your campaign has a still-open Worldwound, you would probably only need to make a minor modification from published canon. From a gaming perspective, the difference between "still pouring out demons" and "closed but still demon-infested" isn't huge - your PCs still have plenty of demons to fight either way.
Will there be info on Tian cultures in this book?
Is it reasonable to view this as the companion to the ISWG with updated lore for "what has changed in the last 10ish years in the Inner Sea region"?
Since that was a book I wanted.
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We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PHi mr Jabobs. Probably is too early to reveal this information, buy I try the same :) will the map show the names of ALL the nations in Golarion?**
Not even close. It'll have the 8 continents labeled, and it'll show the significant terrain features like larger forests and mountains and the like... but that's it.
It focuses on the same area the Inner Sea World Guide does.
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Not even close. It'll have the 8 continents labeled, and it'll show the significant terrain features like larger forests and mountains and the like... but that's it.We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PHi mr Jabobs. Probably is too early to reveal this information, buy I try the same :) will the map show the names of ALL the nations in Golarion?**
That's a little disappointing.
There are worlds where closed map settings make sense. In Exalted and Midgard (as well as the Gods of Egypt movie), this is because the world isn't a planet and literally ends at the edge of the map. And even settings like Dark Sun make sense as a closed map. Sure, Athas is a planet, but with access to travel as limited as it is for its inhabitants (magic is rare and kills as it's used and mundane travel is only caravans and sand sailers) and with the lack of anywhere else to go really, the region of the seven? city-states might as well be all there is.
And other settings feature a planet but provide a reason why only one area is focused on. The entire world of Eberron is a planet, but the other continents besides Khorvaire are inaccessible for plausible in-universe reasons. Sarlona is inaccessible by terrain or military intervention, except for specific ports of entry. Argonnessen is even more so (and its military intervention is almost the entirety of the setting's population of dragons). Almost the same with Aerenal (but since it is slightly more open, we get more names of places in the continent). Xen'drik instead is magically inaccessible due to a "Traveler's curse" making travel and geography there as uncertain as in Pathfinder's First World.
On the other hand, I've never felt that Golarion really had plausible reasons for why its map ends the way it does. Why are there no nations so much as name-dropped further south than the Mwangi Expanse, Geb, or Sargava? Qadira is IIRC an outpost territory of some larger empire further to the east, but what else do we know about it? Does it extend north enough to also be east of Brevoy? If not, what IS east of Brevoy? Golarion is a world with common shipping and travel, both mundane and magical (heck, magic can get you off-planet). At least one AP and Tales novel takes place in Tian Xia, so we know said globalization occurs at least to the other side of the planet, yet it seems like no one even cared about the intervening half-a-planet between the two continents. The only barrier that does make sense is the Crown of the World (because it's conventionally inaccessible and because no one would feel the need to magically travel there).
To be fair, I have the same issues with Star Wars. In-universe, the Republic/Empire/New Republic has existed for 25,000 years and has had access to hyperdrive for at least as long. And said hyperdrive was always galaxy-spanning fast. How can you possibly still have Unknown Regions under those parameters? Was no one ever curious? Did no one explore?
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Not even close. It'll have the 8 continents labeled, and it'll show the significant terrain features like larger forests and mountains and the like... but that's it.We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PHi mr Jabobs. Probably is too early to reveal this information, buy I try the same :) will the map show the names of ALL the nations in Golarion?**That's a little disappointing.
We have a LOT going on right now... it's the busiest it's pretty much ever been for us, what with launching the new edition, and as such we can't do everything we want to do. The fact that I was able to get the map of the world ready is a minor miracle in and of itself.
It's a pretty detailed map, and it's going to give us an EXCELLENT foundation to explore all of the continents going forward, giving us a better tool do do so than we've ever had. With this map, one of the LARGEST barriers to us doing more information about other continents is lifted, so going forward it'll be easier for us to do this. In time we will. That time is not when we're relaunching the game and potentially introducing the core setting to a HUGE new influx of gamers.
The map of Golarion we use of the Inner Sea Region ends where it does because that's the largest part of the world we felt comfortable getting started with. The global map of the planet in the book shows the whole planet, but it doesn't detail every single nation on the planet. Many of those nations and regions we have still not even invented after all.
Have patience. We'll get there eventually.
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Not even close. It'll have the 8 continents labeled, and it'll show the significant terrain features like larger forests and mountains and the like... but that's it.We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PHi mr Jabobs. Probably is too early to reveal this information, buy I try the same :) will the map show the names of ALL the nations in Golarion?**That's a little disappointing.
We have a LOT going on right now... it's the busiest it's pretty much ever been for us, what with launching the new edition, and as such we can't do everything we want to do. The fact that I was able to get the map of the world ready is a minor miracle in and of itself.
It's a pretty detailed map, and it's going to give us an EXCELLENT foundation to explore all of the continents going forward, giving us a better tool do do so than we've ever had. With this map, one of the LARGEST barriers to us doing more information about other continents is lifted, so going forward it'll be easier for us to do this. In time we will. That time is not when we're relaunching the game and potentially introducing the core setting to a HUGE new influx of gamers.
The map of Golarion we use of the Inner Sea Region ends where it does because that's the largest part of the world we felt comfortable getting started with. The global map of the planet in the book shows the whole planet, but it doesn't detail every single nation on the planet. Many of those nations and regions we have still not even invented after all.
Have patience. We'll get there eventually.
Ah, sorry. That wasn't a criticism of this book now, but more when the setting first came out years ago.
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We'll have more info soon, but the 10 regions encompass what we used to call the "Inner Sea Region"—it's the same focus on Avistan and northern Garund, but split into a more manageable number of areas rather than one for every single nation. For example: The "Saga Lands" is one of the ten regions, and it includes Lands of the Linnorm Kings, Varisia, New Thassilon, Irrisen, and Realm of the Mammoth Lords.
"Lost Omens" is indeed the name of the setting overall—it never really had a good name before, other than "The Pathfinder Campaign Setting" I guess.
BUT yes, we're still focusing on the once-called "Inner Sea Region" in this book. We will have a few words to say about the other continents and planets, but not much—those'll be for other books later.
We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :P
"Okay this makes more sense. So they will be more regional guides allowing you to cover more. I was shocked that in one year a bunch of countries went to hell and more. But, this is more of a sigh of relief."
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That is reasonable.Is it reasonable to view this as the companion to the ISWG with updated lore for "what has changed in the last 10ish years in the Inner Sea region"?
Since that was a book I wanted.
That is better than the current campaign continent map. I like it will at least have terrain features
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On the other hand, I've never felt that Golarion really had plausible reasons for why its map ends the way it does. Why are there no nations so much as name-dropped further south than the Mwangi Expanse, Geb, or Sargava? Qadira is IIRC an outpost territory of some larger empire further to the east, but what else do we know about it? Does it extend north enough to also be east of Brevoy? If not, what IS east of Brevoy? Golarion is a world with common shipping and travel, both mundane and magical (heck, magic can get you off-planet). At least one AP and Tales novel takes place in Tian Xia, so we know said globalization occurs at least to the other side of the planet, yet it seems like no one even cared about the intervening half-a-planet between the two continents. The only barrier that does make sense is the Crown of the World (because it's conventionally inaccessible and because no one would feel the need to magically travel there).
Uh, what? I guess you're not really up to date.
South of Mwangi? The nations of Droon and Holomog with the Field of Maidens lie there. (See Inner Sea World Guide, and Distant Shores).
East of Brevoy? There's Iobaria, described and even mapped in Kingmaker, Part 3, The Varnhold Vanishing. And more nations are name-dropped that lie there, such as Ninshabur, Kaskkari, and Iblydos.
Crown of the World? Not inaccessible, in fact the Jade Regent Adventure Path travels there, and the continent is described and mapped in Part 3, The Hungry Storm.
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We're talking about Aroden, here. Understood that there's a bit of a conflict with Pharasma. Let's chalk it up to "poetic license."
*Heavy sigh of relief*
There is a thread on the forums where people posted their ideas for the worst resolutions for all of the adventure paths.
Would love to read through this but haven't been able to find this specific thread- can someone please share the link?
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Question about the world map, and this going to be oddly technical.
Since the map will be flat will it have distortions like real world flat global maps? For example northern and southern regions get stretched and look bigger while center regions are condensed and look smaller. Or will there be modifications made to keep the continents accurate in size but the oceans will get distorted?
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Question about the world map, and this going to be oddly technical.
Since the map will be flat will it have distortions like real world flat global maps? For example northern and southern regions get stretched and look bigger while center regions are condensed and look smaller. Or will there be modifications made to keep the continents accurate in size but the oceans will get distorted?
I was wondering the same thing.
Hopefully they’ll use something like the Equal Earth projection to keep distortions to a minimum.
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Question about the world map, and this going to be oddly technical.
Since the map will be flat will it have distortions like real world flat global maps? For example northern and southern regions get stretched and look bigger while center regions are condensed and look smaller. Or will there be modifications made to keep the continents accurate in size but the oceans will get distorted?
Slightly distorted, yes, but mostly as amounts to the Crown of the World, which'll look like a white strip at the top. We're faking it a bit a little as well, but when I map the image to a globe projection, it works out pretty well. It's something between a mercator map and a miller cylindrical map, I guess. The map's meant to show more detailed coastlines, placements of mountains and forests and jungles and deserts and oceans and major lakes and the like... not meant so much for measuring distances.
A more accurate distance map is still something in the works—I'd like to sync that up with more details for nations beyond the Inner Sea as well, but that's not something we've time to do this year.
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There is a thread on the forums where people posted their ideas for the worst resolutions for all of the adventure paths.Would love to read through this but haven't been able to find this specific thread- can someone please share the link?
I believe this may be the thread he's referring to.
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We don't have the expertise to make globes, and I have no idea how much it would cost to make one and thus how much it would cost for a customer to buy... but the map we have now gives us an image we can use to decorate a globe with ease so this is now possible. I have an animated GIF version of said map on said globe here that I hope to some day show off.We WILL finally have a detailed global map though, which I'm very excited and relieved about! :PMe too. Heck, I'd probably buy an actual globe, if you made one.
You can also now more easily do what I did a couple years ago and buy a chalkboard globe to draw Golarion on to it.
I would be very interested in an alternate post-apocalyptic Golarion "failed omens world guide" in which Golarion is reeling from the successive shocks of every AP's worst case scenario coming to pass. Probably at odds with what you have planned for the core setting, but a later supplement perhaps?Well.. How to say it? Ahem.
** spoiler omitted **
There's also
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As for splitting it into 10 settings, that lets us cover things more efficiently than dealing with 40+...
Presumably also allows for shifts in national borders and sovereignty without as much risk of invalidating published material... and allows for something I think journeymen GMs will appreciate- "flavor zones."
Rather than trying to group each nation in alphabetical order for thematic ties, going by region allows you to present thematic blends that fit given stories with a minimum of "wait, what's Nidal next to again?"
I don't even wanna think about what could happen if you fail to complete Tyrant's Grasp...
Tar Baphon becomes a god, and can no longer interfere directly on Golarion? That one doesn't seem too bad.
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It took Aroden a few centuries to stop directly interfering. Even after that, the last thing we need is an enormously more powerful Whispering Way.