Elemental Proofing Paste

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I’m hoping for some extra Gadgets. It would be great to get an expansion of the Inventor options.


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willfromamerica wrote:
It’s also my understanding that 2e doesn’t have any adventure paths widely regarded to be straight-up D-tier the same way 1e did with things like Second Darkness, Serpent’s Skull, or Council of Thieves.

Though the first book of Serpent's Skull was really good - probably my favorite first book of any AP.


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The party needs another martial (to flank with the thief), and a tank of some kind. So a Champion would be the natural choice. (As well as an excellent class to pick for this AP.)


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Top 3:

Gunslinger
Swashbuckler
Magus

Bottom 3:

Alchemist
Witch
Oracle

I tend to like classes that require you to cleverly juggle your action economy, and which feel really effective when you do.

I tend dislike classes which seem to have brute drawbacks you can't cleverly work around, or classes which tend to seem like strict downgrades compared of other classes.


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Michael Sayre wrote:
CaffeinatedNinja wrote:


It works with a Jezail even in 2handed mode because it is technically a 1handed firearm.
That's not how it works. Handedness in PF2 is determined by the number of hands being used to wield the weapon. So if you're using a jezail in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon and you can't use any options that require you to be using a firearm one-handed until you're back to wielding it in one hand. If you use a dagger in two hands, it's a two-handed weapon for the purposes of feats and abilities that require a two-handed weapon, as laid out on pages 279-280 of the CRB. When determining the handedness of a weapon, the two questions are just "What's the minimum number of hands used to wield this" and "How many hands am I currently using to wield it?"

Very helpful clarification!

By the way, should we read this as clarifying whether a pistolero can draw a Jezail when they roll initiative (Ten Paces), and be ready to use it 2-handed? (A) The minimum number of hands you need is 1, and (B) the number of hands you’re using when you activate Ten Paces is 0… which would suggest you can?

Or perhaps the two clauses you mentioned don’t settle this case, since the question isn’t whether you can *draw* it (you can, since it’s a 0/1 handed weapon according to the above confitions), but whether you can choose to come to be holding it in its 2-handed stance…


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The smallest mech frames (which are Huge) allow for 1-2 pilots. So piloting one solo is definitely an option.


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A Mechanic with the Experimental Armor Prototype alternate class feature would be my first guess.

If you really wanted to hit the "overwhelmingly powerful" angle, you could use the Starfinder Mech rules, and stat out the Glitter Boy as a kind of mech. But I think the smallest mechs are Huge, whereas the Glitter Boy seems like it'd only be Large.


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Very nice guide!

It might be worth mentioning the Intuitive Cooperation and Helpful Halfling feats for the Halfing Ancestry, since this is a pretty nice boost for Aid-focused Wit Swashbucklers. (I'd also be inclined to make Halflings blue for Wit Swashbucklers.)


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Will there be any changes/revisions to the AP? (Like in the Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne compilations?)


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My five favorite depictions were:

The Devourer
Oras
Nyarlathotep
Pharasma
Triune

With Eloritu getting an honorable mention.

There weren't any depictions that I hated, though the art for Iomedae and Sarenrae looked a little funny to my eye.


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Yeah, I love the cantrips in Galactic Magic - Adhere, Misfire, and Stumble (and maaaaybe Psychokinetic Shove?) do a lot to make a non-weapon focused spellcaster a viable option.


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I'll second the Champion (Paladin or Redeemer) suggestion. Since you have a relatively squishy party, a Champion is a great tank to hold the front line. It's also a great way to protect other members of the party (with your champion reaction). And a number of the Champion feats work particularly well in this AP. Finally, it adds a lot of value by providing your party with a permanent source of between encounter healing (lay on hands).

EDIT: I don't want to spoil anything, but I'll flag that Blade Ally is what I'd recommend for this AP - it's really, really useful.


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Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Does Spell Sergeant or any of the other methods of improving spell damage not work with scaling cantrips?

That's a good question. If you *did* allow the Spell Sergeant bonus to stack with the scaling cantrip damage, though it looks like a Spell Sergeant's cantrip damage would be almost exactly the same as a Longarms weapon of the same level. (Running some quick numbers against Laser Rifles, the cantrip would be 1 point ahead at L6, 1 point ahead at L9, 1.5 points behind at L13, and 0 points ahead at L17.)

So that looks pretty balanced, actually.


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Here's another way to assess the scaling cantrip option, comparing them directly to pistols. Using the standard line of laser pistols as our point of comparison for EAC cantrips, we find that:

Level 1-5: Pistol (Azimuth) is ahead by 1 point (on average).
Level 6: Pistol (Corona) is ahead by 3.5 points (on average).
Level 7-8: Pistol (Corona) is ahead by 0 points (on average).
Level 9: Pistol (Aphelion) is ahead by 2.5 points (on average).
Level 10-11: Pistol (Aphelion) is ahead by 0 points (on average).
Level 12: Pistol (Perihelion) is ahead by 2.5 points (on average).
Level 13: Pistol (Perihelion) is ahead by 0 points (on average).
Level 14: Pistol (Parallax) is ahead by 2.5 points (on average).
Level 15-16: Pistol (Parallax) is ahead by 0 points (on average).
Level 17-18: Pistol (Zenith) is ahead by 2.5 points (on average).
Level 19-20: Pistol (Zenith) is ahead by -2.5 points (on average).

So the scaling cantrip is around 0-2.5 points of damage behind the corresponding laser pistol for pretty much one's entire career. Given that laser pistols are expensive and cantrips are free, this seems like pretty good scaling to me.


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Gaulin wrote:
Aaron shanks said that it's fake on a Reddit thread.

Link here.


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Milo v3 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I thought the downside to accessing the scaling cantrips was that they're still not good enough to replace a pistol?
That's unfortunate.

Two thoughts about the cantrip option.

1. Unlike on-level pistols, they're free. So if you stick to cantrips, you get a huge chunk of change you can spend on other things.

2. The damage is pretty comparable to that of a Vanguard taking the Entropic Shot alternate class feature (which makes the entropic strike ranged). Focusing on EAC-targeting cantrips, their damage compares as follows:

Levels 1-4: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 0 points
Level 5: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 1 point (on average)
Level 6: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 4.5 points (on average)
Levels 7-8: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 2 points (on average)
Level 9: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 5.5 points (on average)
Level 10-11: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 3 points (on average)
Level 12: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 6.5 points (on average)

So it's only a smidge behind the Vanguard's Entropic Shot, and the Entropic Shot is one of the Vanguard's major class features. All in all, it looks like a viable option to me.


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Aaron Shanks wrote:

Here are the chapters:

Table of Contents
Preface
1 Prayers for the Living
2 Hymns for the Dead
3 The Grim Crypt
4 Lands of the Dead
5 March of the Dead
Appendix

I'll show an image of the ToC in Paizo LIVE in late February as motivation to subscribe. :)

"March of the Dead".

That's not ominous at all...


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breithauptclan wrote:
StarlingSweeter wrote:
Are equipment loadouts/character build examples useful to you? Do you like it when guides go through all published character options (like ancestries and backgrounds) or do you prefer they give some generalizations to keep it readable?
Only include the ones that are noteworthy. Equipment/Ancestry/etc that has a specific synergy (or non-synergy) with the class. Especially ones that may not be obvious. For example pointing out that Barbarian doesn't do well with mounted combat (Rage + Command an animal don't mesh well), or that Monk Monastic Weaponry, Bo Staff, and Tangled Forest Stance make a useful combination.

I'll echo Castilliano and breithauptclan here, and say that guides are definitely one place where "less is more" can apply. If a guide spends a couple pages focusing on ancestries that mesh well with the class I'll skim through the section for interesting suggestions; if it spends 40 pages covering every ancestry I'll skip it entirely.


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I love pretty much every entry in this book.

But Ainamuuren might be my favorite. It just lends itself so naturally to a free-archetype 20-level campaign, where players get the Pactbound Initiate archetype as they agree to share the burden of the pact with the Ainamuuren. So many ways to go with this, from helping in low-level ways (finding other volunteers, helping to search for others of their species, keeping their existence and location hidden from potentially nefarious powers) and high-level ways (confronting high level agents seeking to break the pact and unleash the evil within, or even facing the evil itself).


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Congratulations Mark!

And as sad as I am that Mark is leaving Paizo, this sort of thing is good for people working in the industry. The more talent poaching via salary increases goes on, the higher the expected pay for the people who work there.


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Ly'ualdre wrote:

My apologies. I didn't realize how long that ended up being.

As a side, I just had a thought. Would anyone else be interested in seeing this sort of book continued, but about specific groups of monsters? They could do a book themed around say Dragons or undead, and give detailed information on a number of the most well known examples alongside heavy lore. And I don't mean simply your run of the mill examples, but incredibly unique or powerful creatures, or those bearing names or heavy ties to Golarions lore.

Some examples could be Daughters of Urgathoa in an undead book, or Daralathxl, Sixth King of the Five Kings Mountains in a dragon book. And the dragon book wouldn't be restricted to just true Dragons, but draconic creatures in general.

Sort of a spiritual successor to books like Undead Revisited or Dragons Unleashed.

I would!


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This book was fantastic. I'll just repeat what I said in the product thread:

Porridge wrote:
Wow. I was not expecting to like this book as nearly as much as I did. I thought this might be a mini-bestiary, or something. I didn't expect 20 sketches for homebrew APs! Mix that with amazing, evocative descriptions, juicy stat blocks, and some interesting player options, and you get an amazing book. My favorite "short" Lost Omens books so far.

Kudos to the authors, developers, editors, and everyone else involved!


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Mewzard wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Mewzard wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the highest CR Monster in the book?
Fafnheir is level 24.

Thanks!

Guess my dream of some horrifying CR30 monstrosity will have to wait.

Any Great Wyrms yet? Last I saw, we were still peaking with Ancient Dragons.

Well, there is an entry for a class of monsters too powerful to get stats (the book flatly states that level 15-20 characters aren't powerful enough to deal with them)...


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Wow. I was not expecting to like this book as nearly as much as I did. I thought this might be a mini-bestiary, or something. I didn't expect 20 sketches for homebrew APs! Mix that with amazing, evocative descriptions, juicy stat blocks, and some interesting player options, and you get an amazing book. My favorite "short" Lost Omens books so far.


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Yes, that’s my reading. If you have Sword and Pistol, the tanged attack part of Stab and Blast won’t provoke.


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I really like the Mechfinder rules. A real Battletech feel to it. And I really like how it gives a lot more weight to the size of mechs — it seems like this should be a huge deal, power-level wise, but in the Tech Revolution rules buying a larger mech doesn’t change much. (In fact, it generally seems like a downgrade, power-level-wise.)


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PeteZero wrote:

Thanks for all the help. With unexpected Sharpshooter available, I might go

2: Unexpected Sharpshooter
4: Lucky Escape
6: Sniper's Aim
8: Unbelievable Luck
10: I meant to do that
12: Chain reaction

Would this be better or would I shoot myself into the foot?

Fake Out is really good. It’s a use for your reaction that you’ll get to use every turn. And it’s a good use. So (IMO) it’s hard to pass up.

(It won’t work if you’re hidden, though, so if you’re planning on being hidden a lot, you can skip it.)


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Recent discussions have made it clear how little Paizo's staff/freelancers make, and how difficult it is to increase how much they're paid given the current pricing of products. So I, for one, am very happy to hear about the price increase!


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I want to thank to KC for her great post here.

This is a really careful, thoughtful, and genuinely helpful response to a really tricky and hard to answer question (at least one that I'd struggle to offer an informative answer to). I think having something like this spelled out in the forum guidelines would be fantastic. But in the meantime, I've added it to my list of "to remember" posts, so I can link to it next time this question comes up!


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This is a Hong Kong-style 2-weapon “gun” monk build, constructed around the idea of punishing anyone who targets them. Leap and Fire allows free attacks at anyone who makes ranged attacks against them, and Jellyfish Stance and Opportunist allows free attacks against anyone who tries to engage them in melee combat.

Build 16: Unapproachable

Spoiler:
Stat-wise, this build wants to start with an 18 Dex to maximize their attack stat, and 14 in Str (for Monk dedication) and Cha (for Create Diversion and Demoralize).

Ancestry: Elf (Ancient Elf)
Background: Martial Disciple
Class: Gunslinger (Pistolero)
Primary Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Intimidation

Feats by Level:
1 Hit the Dirt! (class), Nimble Elf (ancestry), Monk Dedication (heritage), Cat Fall (background)
2 Fake Out (class), Intimidating Glare (skill)
3 Adopted Ancestry: Human (general)
4 Paired Shots (class), Confabulator (skill)
5 Unconventional Weaponry: Repeating Hand Crossbow (ancestry)
6 Monk: Basic Kata: Ki Rush (class), Lengthy Diversion (skill)
7 Feather Step (general)
8 Leap and Fire (class), Kip Up (skill)
9 Multitalented: Fighter Dedication (ancestry)
10 Fighter: Opportunist (class), Lasting Coercion (skill)
11 Fleet (general)
12 Monk: Advanced Kata: Jellyfish Style (class), Battle Cry (skill)
13 Elf Step (ancestry)
14 Monk: Monk’s Flurry (class), Terrified Retreat (skill)
15 Toughness (general)
16 Two Weapon Fusillade (class), Scare to Death (skill)
17 Aerialist (ancestry)
18 Unerring Shot (class), Reveal Machinations (skill)
19 True Perception (general)
20 Perfect Readiness (class), Slippery Secrets (skill)

Key Gear:

  • Firearms: At levels 1-4 carries a pair of Air Repeaters, at L5+ carries a pair of Repeating Hand Crossbows.

  • Shootist Bandolier.

  • Handwraps of Mightly Blows.

  • Items that boost Deception and Intimidate.

  • Items that boost speed.

    Basic Tactics by Level:

    Carries around one weapon in hand.

    Round 0: Ten Paces (to draw other weapon).

    1st-3rd:

    Round 1+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Strike, Strike.

    Using mobility to move back and keep distance if necessary, and using Fake Out to support allies.

    4th-11th:

    Round 1+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Paired Shots.

    Using mobility (and Ki Rush, Feather Step) to move back and keep distance if necessary, using Leap and Fire to return fire against ranged attacks, or Fake Out to support allies if enemies don’t have ranged attacks.

    12th+:

    Round 1: Jellyfish Stance, Paired Shots.

    Round 2+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Paired Shots.

    Using mobility (including Feather Step, Elf Step and Ki Rush) to keep some distance, using Leap and Fire and Opportunist to fire back at anyone who targets you or who tries to close in for melee, or Fake Out to support allies if enemies aren’t targeting them.

    At L14, if starts turn exactly 10’ away, can follow Paired Shots with a Flurry of Blows with Jellyfish Stance strikes.


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    CyberMephit wrote:
    Porridge wrote:
    The big outlier here seems to be [2]. [2] hasn't been addressed at all. I realize there are confidentiality issues here, but there hasn't even been a statement of the form "we can't talk about this publicly, but the circumstances of some recent employee departures are being investigated, and corrective action will be taken".

    I'll just leave this here as looks like it only appeared a few days ago and not everyone might be aware of it:

    https://ko-fi.com/charmedneedle

    I think every post in this thread and every unionize hashtag on twitter should cost a donation to Sara's Ko-Fi.

    Thanks for sharing this!


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    To help me sort out my feelings about all of this, it's been helpful for me to go back to the list of demands offered by #PAIZOACCOUNTABILITY:

    Derry L. Zimeye wrote:


    [1] * Paizo needs to hire a whistleblower/arbitration company.
    [2] * Said company must investigate Sara Marie's wrongful termination.
    [3] * Executives need to be held accountable and investigated
    [4] * Executives need to enter good faith negotiations with their employees
    [5] * Salaries need to be posted and raised; some employees live below the median living wage in Seattle

    So here's how things currently seem to stand with respect to these demands:

    [1]: This announcement seems to meet demand [1].

    [2]: This doesn't seem to have been addressed in this announcement or any other.

    [3]: This announcement seems to meet the first half of this demand - the "investigated" part. The other half - the "held accountable" - is pending investigation, and so falls in the "we'll have to wait and see" category.

    [4]: The voluntary recognition of the union seems to meet demand [4].

    [5]: This issue is going to depend on how things go with negotiations with the union. So this also falls in the "we'll have to wait and see" category.

    So Paizo has met 2.5 of the 5 demands, and 1.5 of the demands are in the "we'll have to wait and see" category - demands which they would need more time to meet, and might meet, but haven't met yet. So with respect to [1] and [3]-[5], Paizo's actions make me cautiously optimistic.

    The big outlier here seems to be [2]. [2] hasn't been addressed at all. I realize there are confidentiality issues here, but there hasn't even been a statement of the form "we can't talk about this publicly, but the circumstances of some recent employee departures are being investigated, and corrective action will be taken".

    So for the most part I guess I'm feeling cautiously optimistic. (Which is not to say other people should feel the same - I'm speaking only for myself here.) But the glaring omission on *anything* about [2] is disappointing.


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    I *think*(?) the Brawling Focus feat granted to the Bullet Dancer was probably intended to grant critical specialization effects for bayonets, reinforced stocks, and simple firearms? (Or, alternatively, that the Bullet Dancer Dedication feat was supposed to allow you to treat bayonets, reinforced stocks, and simple firearms as Monk weapons, which would yield the same result.)

    As is, the Brawling Focus feat doesn't seem to do anything for someone in the Bullet Dancer Stance (which requires you to only make strikes with one of those three weapons).


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    Alfa/Polaris wrote:
    ★ What do you think is the best way to use a gun sword or other combination weapons, as they are? What rulings/edits would you make for their use, if any?

    Interesting question. Here's my 2 cents.

    The gun part of the Gun Sword is pretty good -- it's basically a Harmona Gun (which is roughly tied with the Arquebus for the highest expected damage firearm) with one less die-size of damage (d8 instead of d10). That's just 1-4 points of expected damage (depending on the Striking Runes), which is a pretty small decrease.

    The sword part of the Gun Sword is more "meh". If the gun part of the Gun Sword is one step down from the best 2-handed firearms, the sword part of the Gun Sword is two steps down. It's a decent fallback melee option for a character with high strength (or for someone with special abilities pertaining to combination weapons) but it's definitely a fallback option.

    Putting that together, I think the Gun Sword is going to be best used by:

    (1) a ranged weapon specialist (since that's the best part of the Gun Sword)

    (2) who is going to be near enough to their targets to make melee engagement a possibility,

    (3) who also has a reason to invest in Strength as their second-highest stat,

    (4) and who has the ability to take advantage of special combination weapon properties.

    The Vanguard Gunslinger satisfies (1)-(4) -- they're a gun specialist, they want to stay close to the action to use their melee-range special abilities, they want a high Str to do Athletics maneuvers, and they have access to Stab and Blast, which is pretty good. So they're one optimal user.

    The Fighter can also satisfy (1)-(4) -- they can specialize in guns, pick up some of the sweet melee abilities to keep melee an attractive option, and still want a high Str to use some of these nice melee abilities. They can also use the critical fusion ability of the sword without having to take an archetype or anything.

    So it looks to me like those are the two prime contenders for best Gun Sword users.

    Now, whether a Gun Sword is a better option than (say) a Harmona Gun with a bayonet is harder question. The latter is a slightly better ranged weapon, but (arguably) a slightly worse melee option (d4 instead of d8). That said, it's not clear the Gun Sword's melee advantage is that big - the Bayonet is finesse, which will give you a bit of a to-hit boost for half of your career, and the Bayonet allows you to switch from ranged to melee options without having to spend actions, or potentially triggering AOOs. All-things-considered, I'd probably favor the Harmona Gun+Bayonet option, but it's not an obvious call.

    As far as alterations go, I'd be tempted to allow combination weapons to switch between melee and ranged uses as a free action instead of an Interact action. This would make the Gun Sword a firmly better melee option relative to the Harmona Gun+Bayonet, to balance off the fact that the Harmona Gun+Bayonet is a firmly better ranged option. But that's not to say it's clearly imbalanced as is.


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    Blave wrote:

    @Porridge

    I think you misread my post (or I wrote it badly). I'm not considering going Alchemist Dedication. I'm thinking about how valuable the Munition Crafter feats, Alchemical Shot and Shattering Shot are.

    Still, it's good to know that your assessment of those feats are similar to mine. Thanks!

    But I'm not going near that tool. I don't have the mental capacity to learn using it right now.

    I somehow misread that part of your post, and slipped into thinking you were considering the same thing I was (whether an Alchemist dip is worth it). My apologies!

    Blave wrote:
    I've never really played or played alongside a ranged character in PF2 so far so I'm a bit at a loss. How many special attacks are too many? Is occasionally hitting weaknesses really worth the misfire chance (and losing our on the additional +2 attack from Sniper's Aim)?

    Regarding particular feats it's worth considering, here are some thoughts:

    I think Called Shot is a nice tool to have in your kit, as it gives a lot of situational abilities it can be nice to have: a way to debuff spellcasters, a way to help the party kite an enemy, a way to help your tank survive a terrifying melee opponent, and so on.

    As I mentioned above, Penetrating Fire is a nice situational option too when facing multiple enemies. And since the opponents only have to be in a line (not adjacent), it's not even that situational if you have a good move speed.

    Flesh Wound is a nice feat in that it's basically a strict upgrade to a basic ranged Strike. So if you're going to be making those, it's nice. But it conflicts with any other kind of strike - Sniper's Aim, Vital Shot, Penetrating Shot, Rapid Reload, etc. So if you're planning on using those other options, it's not worth it.

    I think Alchemical Shot over Sniper's Aim can be worth it. Using the calculator, gainst an on-level enemy with a weakness you're targeting, the Alchemical Shot looks to yield an expected damage that's about 5 points higher than Sniper's Aim (using an Arquebus as the base weapon) during the mid-level range. That's decent increase, percentage-wise (about 30% at level 10). This doesn't factor in the chance of misfires, though, which makes the comparison more complicated. And, of course, if you need some energy damage to stop regeneration or something, Alchemical Shot is really good.

    The other "special shot" feats available to an Arquebus user, like Trick Shot and Ricochet Shot, seem pretty niche to me; I think I've gone through campaigns without a situation where either would be useful. So unless you have reason to think your campaign will make these situations come up a lot, I'd be inclined to give them a pass.


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    Alfa/Polaris wrote:
    ★ What exactly is the default/expected stat build and playstyle of Vanguard? Did I hit the mark that it's Strength for Clear a Path/Blast Tackle, but mostly Dexterity for shooting, and getting into the thick of things just to stand, shoot, and push people around when they get close?

    Regarding expected builds, here's a Vanguard Gun Sword build posted by the developer:

    Orc Lawbringer

    And here's another Vanguard build by the developer (wielding a different weapon):

    Dwarven Gun Tank

    So my hunch is this is the sort of thing they had in mind.


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    Blave wrote:

    I thought about getting the Gunslinger's various Alchemy feats.

  • I was pondering a similar thing myself… I ended up going with the Munitions route, but here’s how things seemed to me.

    One drawback of the Alchemist approach to note is that the level progression of the ammunition/bombs you can make is slower than the one you get with Munitions Machinist. That's a non-trivial cost.

    The other (bigger) drawback is that the Munitions Crafter & Munitions Machinist route only costs two class feats, one of which is a level 1 class feat which is very cheap (the competition isn't very fierce). So really, just one feat with viable competitors. The Alchemical Route, by contrast, requires at least three class feats, at levels 2, 8, and 12. All of those have much fiercer competition, feat-wise, and you’re still behind with respect to what level items you can make.

    That’s not to say that the Alchemist dip isn’t viable - the ability to produce a much wider range of alchemical items is pretty appealing. But unless you have some explicit thoughts in mind about what those are, it doesn’t seem worth it to me.

  • Regarding your assessment of the pros and cons of Alchemical Shot, Alchemical Ammunition, and Precious Munitions, I pretty much agree with these. They’re not terrible - certainly viable - but they also have substantial drawbacks.

    (One thing I’ll note about Alchemical Shot is that it’s actually relatively attractive even if you don’t get the Munitions feats. All you really want is to trigger weaknesses, and you only need a single point of damage of the relevant type to do that. So just buying the (very cheap) low level bombs and carrying them around is totally viable.)

  • Regarding how many special attacks are too many: it depends on which ones they are. A number of the special case ones, which are clearly good in those situations, are attractive. E.g., I think Penetrating Strike can be pretty good for an Arquebus user with a high speed; move into place to put two opponents in a line, and then you get two attacks without a MAB. So that’s worth considering.

    A lot of other special attacks will competing. I found myself having to use citricking’s expected damage tool to evaluate various attack routines using different attack feats:

    https://bahalbach.github.io/PF2Calculator/#routine-activity-list

    Not sure what advice to give here other than to work it out. The results of various comparisons certainly weren’t intuitively obvious! (For example, the Sniper's Vital Shot ended up being clearly better than Sniper's Aim in cases in which you get to use it, which wasn't obvious to me beforehand.)


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    This drifter build mixes melee and ranged combat, using reach weapons to use Reloading Strike without provoking Attacks of Opportunity. Out of combat, she’s an expert at finding and disabling traps, haunts, and other hazards, and is capable of swimming, climbing, and leaping through almost any obstacle. (At level 20 she has a Climb and a Swim speed, and can Fly 1/day.)

    Build 14: Tomb Raider

    Spoiler:

    Stat-wise, this build wants to start with an 18 Dex and a 16 Str to maximize their attack stats.

    Ancestry: Human (Half-Elf)
    Background: Magical Misfit
    Class: Gunslinger (Drifter)
    Primary Skills: Thievery, Religion
    Secondary Skills: Athletics

    Feats by Level:
    1 Dual-Weapon Reload (class), Unconventional Weaponry (ancestry), Trick Magic Item (skill)
    2 Fake Out (class), Arcane Sense (skill)
    3 Shield Block (general)
    4 Sword and Pistol (class), Underwater Marauder (skill)
    5 Ageless Patience (ancestry)
    6 Drifter’s Juke (class), Wary Disarmament (skill)
    7 Feather Step (general)
    8 Grit and Tenacity (class), Cognitive Crossover (skill)
    9 Multitalented: Rogue dedication (ancestry), Quick Identification (skill)
    10 Called Shot (class), Quick Swim (skill)
    11 Incredible Initiative (general)
    12 Deadeye (class), Battle Prayer (skill)
    13 Aeromancer (ancestry)
    14 Two-Weapon Fusillade (class), Consult the Spirits (skill)
    15 Fleet (general)
    16 Fatal Bullet (class), Quick Climber (skill)
    17 Elf Step (ancestry)
    18 Piercing Critical (class), Divine Guidance (skill)
    19 True Perception (general)
    20 Perfect Readiness (class), Cloud Jump (skill)

    Key Gear:

  • Carries a Clan Pistol and a Gnome Flickmace.

    (Alternatively, Tomb Raider could carry a Scorpion Whip and shift her Strength investment into something else. But this leads to a substantial decrease in expected damage.)

  • Carries a buckler.

  • Items that boost Thievery and Religion.

    Basic Tactics by Level:

    At all levels, will generally start with Into the Fray when rolling initiative, drawing both weapons and striding to within 10’ away from the target.

    1st-5th:

    If begins turn adjacent to target: Step away, then Strike with ranged weapon, Reloading Strike.

    If beings turn 10’ away from target: Strike with ranged weapon, Reloading Strike, Raise Buckler/Strike.

    6th-11th:

    If begins turn adjacent to target: Drifter’s Juke (Step away, Strike with ranged weapon, Reloading Strike [+2 to hit if ranged attack hit], Raise Buckler/Strike.

    If begins turn 10’ from target: Ranged Strike
    -If ranged Strike hits: Reloading Strike [+2 to hit if ranged attack hit], Raise Buckler.
    -If ranged Strike misses: Finish the Job, Reloading Strike.

    14th+:

    If begins turn adjacent to target: As above.

    If beings turn 10’ away from mid/high-AC target: Two-Weapon Fusillade (melee Strike then ranged Strike)
    -If ranged Strike hits: Reloading Strike [+2 to hit if ranged attack hit], Raise Buckler.
    -If ranged Strike misses: Finish the Job, Reloading Strike.


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    Porridge wrote:
    Build 12: Smoke Out** spoiler omitted **...

    Correction: I just realized that Fake Out has the visual trait, and so won't work when you're hidden (which, for this build, is hopefully most of the time).

    A better approach is to replace Fake Out with Quickdraw at L2 (allowing you to do the Smokestick routine starting from L2), take Alchemical Shot at L4, and retrain Quickdraw into Rogue dedication at L9. This frees up an extra class feat later which I've used to add in Flesh Wound, which should replace any basic Strikes in the L12+ routines.

    Revised progression:

    Spoiler:

    Feats by Level:
    1 Munitions Crafter (class), Hobgoblin Lore (ancestry)
    2 Rogue dedication (class), Bon Mot (skill), Skill Training (skill) [At L2 take Quickdraw. At L9 retrain into Rogue dedication.]
    3 Prescient Planner (general)
    4 Alchemical Shot (class), Quiet Allies (skill)
    5 Agonizing Rebuke (ancestry) [At L13 retrain Agonizing Rebuke into Runtsage: Very Sneaky. Retrain back at L16.]
    6 Rogue: Sneak Attacker (class), Skill Training (skill) [At L6 take Rogue dedication. At L9 retrain into Sneak Attacker.]
    7 Prescient Consumable (general)
    8 Rogue: Skill Mastery (class), Foil Senses (skill), Battle Cry (skill)
    9 Expert Drill Sergeant (ancestry), Swift Sneak (skill)
    10 Grit and Tenacity (class), Terrified Retreat (skill)
    11 Incredible Initiative (general)
    12 Flesh Wound (class), Shameless Request (skill)
    13 Cantorian Rejuvination (ancestry) [At L13 take Very Very Sneaky. Retrain into Cantorian Rejuvination at L16.]
    14 Called Shot (class), Swift Sneak (skill)
    15 Toughness (general)
    16 Hair Trigger (class), Legendary Sneak (skill)
    17 Rallying Cry (ancestry)
    18 Piercing Critical (class), Scare to Death (skill)
    19 True Perception (general)
    20 Perfect Readiness (class), Legendary Negotiation (skill)


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    Build 12: Smoke Out

    Spoiler:

    A number of ancestries have feats which allow them to see through things like smoke, clouds, mist, and the like. But it’s hard to leverage this into an effective build because (i) you don’t want to conceal the enemy from your party, (ii) you need a way to generate smoke/clouds/mist, and (iii) to make it worthwhile, you want to get more out of it than just a defensive boost.

    This build solves these problems by (i) creating clouds of smoke at range, leaving the enemy visible to the rest of the party, (ii) crafting alchemical Smokesticks to create them, and (iii) using the clouds to allow them to hide, providing both a defensive and an offensive boost that synergies with several class abilities.

    Stat-wise, this build wants to start with an 18 Dex to maximize their attack stat, and 14 Cha to bolster their Bon Mots (which makes it easier for them to hide) and Demoralize (which makes the enemy easier to hit).

    Ancestry: Hobgoblin (Smokeworker)
    Background: Raider
    Class: Gunslinger (Sniper)
    Primary Skills: Stealth
    Secondary Skills: Intimidation, Diplomacy

    Feats by Level:
    1 Munitions Crafter (class), Hobgoblin Lore (ancestry)
    2 Fake Out (class), Bon Mot (skill)
    3 Prescient Planner (general)
    4 Quickdraw (class), Quiet Allies (skill) [At L9 retrain Quickdraw into Alchemical Shot.]
    5 Agonizing Rebuke (ancestry) [At L13 retrain Agonizing Rebuke into Runtsage: Very Sneaky. Retrain back at L16.]
    6 Rogue dedication (class), Glad Hand (skill), Lasting Coercion (skill)
    7 Prescient Consumable (general)
    8 Rogue: Skill Mastery (class), Foil Senses (skill), Battle Cry (skill)
    9 Expert Drill Sergeant (ancestry), Swift Sneak (skill)
    10 Grit and Tenacity (class), Terrified Retreat (skill)
    11 Incredible Initiative (general)
    12 Rogue: Sneak Attacker (class), Shameless Request (skill)
    13 Cantorian Rejuvination (ancestry) [At L13 take Very Very Sneaky. Retrain into Cantorian Rejuvination at L16.]
    14 Called Shot (class), Swift Sneak (skill)
    15 Toughness (general)
    16 Hair Trigger (class), Legendary Sneak (skill)
    17 Rallying Cry (ancestry)
    18 Piercing Critical (class), Scare to Death (skill)
    19 True Perception (general)
    20 Perfect Readiness (class), Legendary Negotiation (skill)

    Key Gear:

  • Firearms: Carries a Jezail from levels 1-12, and a Harmona Gun afterwards.

  • A hefty supply of Smokesticks (which he can make using Alchemical Crafting).

  • Items that boost Stealth, Intimidate and Diplomacy.

  • A low level bomb of each energy type to trigger weaknesses with Alchemical Shot.

    Basic Tactics by Level:

    Always try to start encounters using Stealth for initiative. (The Quiet Allies and Drill Sergeant feats lets you use help allies be stealthy as well, if they’re so inclined.)

    1st-3rd:

    Round 1: Draw weapon (free), Bon Mot/Demoralize, Strike, Covered Reload

    Round 2+: Bon Mot/Demoralize, Strike, Covered Reload

    4th-8th: Walk around carrying a Smokestick in one hand.

    Round 1: Use Smokestick, Quickdraw (draw weapon and Strike), Covered Reload (to hide)

    Round 2+: Bon Mot/Demoralize, Strike, Covered Reload (to hide)

    9th-12th: Walk around carrying a Smokestick in one hand.

    Round 1: Draw Jezail 1-handed (free), Demoralize (free), Use Smokestick,

  • If opponent flat-footed (you win initiative): Vital Shot
  • Otherwise: Strike, Covered Reload (to hide)

    Round 2+:

  • If gun loaded and opponent flat-footed (you succeed in hiding): Vital Shot, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • If gun loaded and opponent not flat-footed: Shift to 2-hands/Bon Mot//Demoralize, Strike, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • If gun unloaded and opponent not flat-footed: Covered Reload (to hide),
    --If opponent flat-footed (you succeed in hiding): Vital Shot
    --Otherwise: Strike, Covered Reload (to hide)

    13th-15th:

    Round 1: Draw weapon (free), Demoralize (free)

  • If opponent flat-footed (you win initiative): Vital Shot, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • Otherwise: Strike, Bon Mot, Covered Reload (to hide)

    Round 2+:

  • If opponent flat-footed (you succeed in hiding): Vital Shot, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • Otherwise: Strike, Bon Mot/Demoralize, Covered Reload (to hide)

    16th+: Walk around with weapon in hand.

    Round 1: Demoralize (free), Strike (free),

  • If opponent flat-footed (you hit with your Hair Trigger strike or you win initiative): Vital Shot, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • Otherwise: Strike, Bon Mot, Covered Reload (to hide)

    Round 2+:

  • If opponent flat-footed (you succeed in hiding): Vital Shot, Covered Reload (to hide)
  • Otherwise: Demoralize/Bon Mot, Strike, Covered Reload (to hide)

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    Ssalarn wrote:


    Basic Tactics by Level Range
    The tactics from lower level ranges are still viable at higher levels since feats are additive and this build doesn't require retraining, so I won't be repeating tactics from earlier levels in the higher level entries, just noting what new kinds of routines have opened up.

    1st - 5th: Pretty straightforward at this point.

    Round 1: Ten Paces (draw 1st pistol), Strike, Raconteur's Reload (Demoralize), Quick Draw (2nd pistol; Strike demoralized target)

    Round 2: Dual-Weapon Reload, Strike (demoralized target if standing), Dual-Weapon Reload

    Round 3: Paired Shots, Dual-Weapon Reload

    ***

    6th - 11th: We've got a lot more options now, so I'm going to stick with a pretty simple routine that lets you use more of your new abilities.

    Round 1: Ten Paces (draw 1st pistol), Pistolero's Challenge, Strike, Raconteur's Reload (demoralize challenged target)

    Round 2: Quick Draw (2nd pistol, Strike challenged and demoralized target), Dual-Weapon Reload, Pistolero's Challenge (assuming 1st target is dead by now, which they generally should be) - End turn with loaded weapons for Leap and Fire or Pistolero's Retort

    Round 3: Trick Shot (grouped enemies or visible objective) + Dual-Weapon Reload (if AoE damage or objective manipulation is most useful) or Dual-Weapon Reload (if reaction was triggered) + Paired Shots

    ***

    These combinations are going to keep expanding with possibilities as you go up, so the main trick from here on out is just watching how you're deploying your actions to stack the most damage on each target and try to end on a reload so you can use your reactions. You've got multiple defensive reactions to use with your Slinger's Reflexes capstone to stay up and fighting longer, and you might consider swapping out your coat/dagger pistol for an air repeater if you want a less potent option for your off-hand weapon that'll be a bit more reliable for Leap and Fire and Pistolero's Retort, trading the bigger punch for more Strikes.

    Just wanted to say I really appreciate these action economy breakdowns. This is the trickiest thing for me to get a feel for with action economy juggling classes like the Gunslinger, Magus, and Summoner. And this kind of concrete breakdown, with some guidance about how to think about things, is super helpful.

    EDIT: For similar reasons, I found Karmagator’s Tactics breakdown really helpful. Kudos!


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    Squiggit wrote:
    Stack wrote:
    I would expect the odd one here and there, but any large number would probably have to wait for an equipment-related book.
    Which probably won't be for a long time because this was the equipment book.

    I’m hoping we’ll get more in the Outlaws of Alkenstar AP.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Fantastic news! I’m so proud of all the Paizo employees who worked to make this happen. And I’m proud of Paizo’s management for doing the right thing, and recognizing it.


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    This is great news!


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    Sagiam wrote:

    Interesting is one word for it.

    They've released some tidbits.
    Standouts are, a set of feats for each race including some mutually exclusive ones at first level (the word "Heritage" was actually used), and "a pool of options for each class at every level to customize your class".

    Yeah. Now all they need to do is to mention a 3 action economy.

    Any chance you can post some links to where they’ve mentioned those details (for those of us out of the loop)?


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    Amber_Stewart wrote:
    I don't usually hear much feedback on stuff I write

    I *loved* your article on Gluttondark in Assault on Hunting Lodge Seven. Really imaginative and evocative and alien, with lots of juicy adventure hooks.


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    Kobold Cleaver wrote:

    Item Six: Blind Hiring

    I want Paizo to go back and guarantee, publicly, that they will continue using a version of Jessica Price's and Wes Schneider's blind test for new hires. If that's the system that gave us employees like Amanda and Crystal, it's the system I want to know they're using.

    Just to help keep clear on what Paizo has/has not been doing: I believe Paizo has, in fact, continued to use the blind hiring process Jessica and Wes advocated for. (See the 6th paragraph of this statement.)

    So I think you can remove this, at least, from the list!


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    This strikes me as an inspired idea. Perhaps worth cross-posting or linking to in the Playtest forum to make sure one of the devs (James Case or Mark Seifter) sees it?


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    Milo v3 wrote:

    For me the main issue with it being charisma based is that it soft-locks against playing thaumaturges who are scholarly in their background and flavour.

    Playing occult-y antiquarians, historians, and archvivist type characters are the main media archetypes I'd want to run with a class like this. But I just can't afford to play a scholarly thaumaturge when my class wants martial stats & charisma as their highest ability scores.

    You can't really afford to have a character who is high at (Str or Dex) + Con + Int + Cha, so the most straightforward archetypes for this class from my mindset is sort of incompatible with the class, so it's hard for me to actually write up a character with it.

    Yeah, this is how I feel too.

    EDIT: One further thing that rubs me the wrong way here is that the class actually punishes you for putting anything into Int. The main use of Int - boosting Recall Knowledge checks - is something they don't need, given the Cha-stat replacement. And the extra trained skills Int gives you doesn't really help them, since what they're starved for are skill *increases* (to keep their Arcana/Nature/Occult/etc skills up), and a high Int doesn't give them that.

    So, as is, it looks like it's a really bad idea to do anything but dump Int. And running around with an 8/10 Int really clashes with most of the character concepts I have for this class (which I otherwise love!).


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    Steve Geddes wrote:

    Hi Jeff

    Will there be any investigation/evaluation of the events leading up to Sara leaving the company? (Private, obviously but beyond the usual “we’re always looking at what we do and striving to do better”).

    This is what I’d like to know as well.

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