Player Core 2 Preview: The Oracle, Remastered

Wednesday, July 10, 2024

I see it in the flickering of my monitor. I hear it in the cawing of the seagulls fighting over a bagel outside my window. I smell it in my coffee from down the street (not the coffee from up the street—the coffee from the other street, or the coffee from the corner; this is Seattle, after all). For the oracle, coming in Pathfinder Player Core 2, is Remastered.

Oracles are divine spellcasters who draw their power not from prayer or devotion to a deity, but from a firsthand connection to the great mysteries of the universe. This connection is a double-edged sword, though, as gazing too deeply into these mysteries results in terrible backlash in the form of a divine curse. While this unique relationship with the divine and its “power at a price” theme offer strong and appealing roleplaying hooks that are very Golarion (what is the role of an oracle in a world where prophecy is lost?), the original oracle was often thought of as intimidatingly complex or as a class that made the player jump through hoops to unlock its potential. The Remastered oracle has been changed in ways both large and small to reduce its complexity and pain points, while still allowing players who want to risk fate to draw upon their curse to gain power.

The big change: instead of an oracle’s curse giving them a large suite of abilities, some of which are buffs, some of which are debuffs, and some of which might go either way, the oracle’s curse now just strictly debuffs the player. We’ve done it—no, no, no, come back; I promise this made the class stronger!

The iconic oracle, Korakai, fends off a giant squid with his Remastered magical power.

Art by Christoph Peters.


Because the classic oracle’s curses boosted some stats while lowering others, it could be unclear whether being cursed was a benefit you were trying to get ASAP or a price you had to strategically work around. In the Remaster, they’re always a price, which lets us significantly dial up the power that you get for paying it and keeps the trade-off simple to understand: “Cheat the rules of creation for power, and you get cursed.” The new oracle’s cursebound trait appears not on their focus spells, but instead on specific feats and other actions that have a notable advantage over similarly leveled feats, like cheating the action economy, letting you automatically learn about your target without a skill check, or other similar benefits. Each mystery grants a cursebound ability at level 1 to let them draw on this power, like Foretell Harm.

Foretell Harm [free-action] — Feat 1

Cursebound, Divine, Oracle
Frequency Once per round
Requirements Your previous action was to Cast a non-cantrip Spell that dealt damage.

Your magic echoes ominously as you glimpse injury in the target’s future. At the beginning of your target’s next turn, it takes damage equal to twice the triggering spell’s rank as a seemingly random and minor misfortune finds it. The damage and type of misfortune is of a type matching the spell; for instance, if you dealt fire damage, a flame might spontaneously ignite on them or they might burn a hand on their torch. The target is then temporarily immune to Foretell Harm for 24 hours.

However, whenever you use a cursebound ability, your cursebound condition increases in value. This is a unique condition that appears only in the oracle class. As your cursebound condition increases, the deleterious effects of your curse increase as well, like giving you a penalty to certain saving throws or a weakness to certain damage types. Like the classic oracle, the remastered oracle can tolerate higher and higher cursebound values as they increase in level, letting them use more cursebound abilities.

While most of these curse effects are relatively simple, we do know that a lot of oracle players enjoyed the more disruptive curse effects that could really throw variety into your battle. We’ve kept many of these as cursebound feats, like Meddling Futures (where sprits vie for control over your body) or Thousand Visions (where visions of the future grant you great perception within a short range, but overwhelm your senses beyond it), which are now selectable by any mystery. Now, oracle players who want to opt into this complexity can do so, and oracles who want more straightforward benefits can keep it simple.


Other Changes

We’ve also made several smaller changes throughout the oracle! In no particular order:

  • We’ve made it easier to tailor your oracle's spell list to your mystery. Each mystery now grants three thematic spells to an oracle’s repertoire, and all oracles automatically gain a divine access class feature about halfway through their career that lets them expand this list further.
  • We’ve doubled the number of available domains for oracles who want to harness domain magic. All mysteries now grant four related domains—now your battle oracle might gain the destruction domain, or your cosmos oracle the star domain!
  • We’ve added dashes of ominous, portentous, delirious flavor throughout the class to really make you feel like you’re channeling otherworldly powers.
  • With more streamlined mysteries and curses, we had room to add a greater number of unique oracle feats, a thing that was often cited as lacking in the classic oracle. Take a look at a unique feat for ancestors or battle oracles: The Dead Walk!

The Dead Walk [two-actions] — Feat 10

Cursebound, Divine, Oracle
Prerequisites ancestors or battle mystery

You beseech warrior spirits to come forth and aid you. Two ghostly warriors manifest within a 30-foot emanation of you and each attempt a Strike against an adjacent enemy, using your spell attack modifier, and then disappear. The warriors’ Strikes each deal 4d6 spirit damage, and the warriors can flank with one another and with you and your allies. If you are cursebound 2 when you use The Dead Walk, you instead summon three warriors, and if you are cursebound 3, you instead summon four warriors. The warriors disappear at the start of your next turn.

We’re getting close to the release of Player Core 2, with ancestries, archetypes, and more, so be sure to subscribe to the Rulebook line, pre-order the book, or make a note to swing by our booth at Gen Con to check things out—and keep an eye on the future for the last of our Remaster class previews!

James Case (he/him)
Lead Developer, Rules and Lore

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Tags: Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wow, love the flavor of Foretell Harm. Which Mystery is it for? Bones?

Paizo Employee Community and Social Media Specialist

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I have never played an oracle... But this is certainly selling me on the idea!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

This looks very interesting! I like that rather than not knowing if your curse is a boon or a hindrance, you automatically pay a price but get power in exchange. That makes it a bit simpler, IMO. Excited to see the full class when it releases!

Horizon Hunters

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DemonicDem wrote:
Wow, love the flavor of Foretell Harm. Which Mystery is it for? Bones?

Seems like it is open to any mystery perhaps.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DomHeroEllis wrote:
DemonicDem wrote:
Wow, love the flavor of Foretell Harm. Which Mystery is it for? Bones?
Seems like it is open to any mystery perhaps.

I thought so at first too, but "Each mystery grants a cursebound ability at level 1 to let them draw on this power, like Foretell Harm." makes me think each individual mystery gets a different one, but I might be reading it wrong.


This has me so pumped! Tailored spell lists for mysteries was pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. Streamlining curses is pretty exciting too.


DemonicDem wrote:
I thought so at first too, but "Each mystery grants a cursebound ability at level 1 to let them draw on this power, like Foretell Harm." makes me think each individual mystery gets a different one, but I might be reading it wrong.

I read it as "Foretell Harm is an example of a cursebound ability, but each mystery also gets a cursebound ability of its own."


Quote:
If you are cursebound 2 when you use The Dead Walk, [...]

Does this function off of your cursebound amount BEFORE The Dead Walk increases it, or after?

I wonder if there's a way to reword this that makes it more clear here (and elsewhere, as I assume "If you are cursebound X when you use [ability]" is a standard phrasing) which it is.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DemonicDem wrote:
Wow, love the flavor of Foretell Harm. Which Mystery is it for? Bones?

My guess, if it's for an existing Mystery and not a new one, would be Time.

Horizon Hunters

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Will the ashes and time oracles also be remastered, or will they stay forever stuck in the past?


Ah...

So...you have to opt back in to curses as risk-reward upsides/sidegrades, with feats, and you also have to get these strong options that use the curse penalty with feats, aside from a single thingy at Lv 1.

Divine Access as a feature is great (even if 'halfway through their career' sounds pretty high with the original feat being Lv 4...), three granted spells is quite nice, the extra domain options are also very appreciated, but...goodness, the curse changes. My initial impression is pretty mixed.

I have to hope that single cursebound thingy at Lv 1 is really cool for Life (though I can count on Life Link remaining I think), because as an existing Oracle I've spent all of my feats on archetype stuff for flavor and it's going to be a hard sell spending feats on curse stuff when I have those and the extra unique focus spell(s) to worry about. And I suppose I'll have to say bye to enhanced heals and the cool heal pulse thingy at Lv 11 (I'm at Lv 9! ;w; ), or force the feat that grants that stuff into the build as a high priority, because the campaign I'm playing in doesn't allow old versions of classes.

Dunno. There is a loss despite the other upsides. Maybe there's stuff I don't know about which eases this or it'll simply work better for the majority of players, I doubt I was the target audience for the curse stuff. I'm still interested in the details and overall concept, and remain hopeful for the Alchemist changes suiting a friend's desires. ✿


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A little bit worried a lot of uniqueness has been stripped out of each curse. I do hope the philosophy of people's characters still being viable is holding on here but this has got me nervous!

I've liked every other remaster change so far but argh i really did like premaster oracle and this has me chewing my fingernails.

Korakai looks wonderful as always though

Envoy's Alliance

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It could be like the Druid's. Druids essentially get a feat at first level, that they could (mostly) otherwise take at later levels.

Seems really cool, I like that they're leaning more into the "Fortelling the future" flavor which seemed very absent from the original.


That is an awesome visual for a feat! Oracle looks like a very interesting caster now; I do like being a gambling man.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Have a character playing an Ashes oracle right now and would be nice to know, although I imagine it would be fairly easy to transition over to the fire oracle now especially with the expanded domains.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

This all sounds like good stuff, but the article doesn't touch on what mysteries actually do now, aside from adding a few spells to your spell list and determining what happens when your cursebound condition goes up.

The second biggest issue I had with the oracle is that the class didn't realize the fantasies that the mysteries are supposed to enable.

Paizo Employee Marketing & Media Specialist

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As an avid oracle enjoyer, I'm so excited for the remaster updates!!!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
firelark01 wrote:
Will the ashes and time oracles also be remastered, or will they stay forever stuck in the past?

I'm playing a time oracle so I hope I does get some touchups lol.

Contributor

4 people marked this as a favorite.

The Dead Walk seems SUPER cool and fun!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So I will have to rebuild both my Oracles as the changes are rather big. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing, but it's definitely a big change.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The curse being much more opt-in and the oracle being much better at poaching spells has me excited. There are an oracle or two I'd like to rebuild that these changes will help a lot with, I think.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The cursebound stuff looks really cool and I like the extra control it gives over managing curse level. I especially like the idea of some feats giving bigger benefits the more cursed you are when you use them, gives a fun incentive to go deep on curses.

Slightly worried that some of the more interesting mystery-specific effects might get lost if curses are turning into pure negatives, but we'll see.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
GM_3826 wrote:
DemonicDem wrote:
I thought so at first too, but "Each mystery grants a cursebound ability at level 1 to let them draw on this power, like Foretell Harm." makes me think each individual mystery gets a different one, but I might be reading it wrong.
I read it as "Foretell Harm is an example of a cursebound ability, but each mystery also gets a cursebound ability of its own."

It might be that the Mysteries simply give a bonus level 1 feat. Oracles are not Martials, so they currently don't get a level 1 feat. So, maybe a certain mystery gives Foretell Harm as a bonus feat at lvl 1. But that feat also exists for Oracles who selected other mysteries that they could take later. Or a Human oracle could take one with Natural Ambition.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also, what monster is pestering Korakai there?


Squiggit wrote:

The cursebound stuff looks really cool and I like the extra control it gives over managing curse level. I especially like the idea of some feats giving bigger benefits the more cursed you are when you use them, gives a fun incentive to go deep on curses.

Slightly worried that some of the more interesting mystery-specific effects might get lost if curses are turning into pure negatives, but we'll see.

It's possible that the mystery and curse are being further separated, so the curse becomes more generic but the mystery benefits for digging deep remain. That's kind of what I'm hoping for, even though I liked how they were tied together before.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It is hard to imagine any class will change more than this in the remaster.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

Misread Foretell Harm as Foretell Ham and I was like hell yeah free ham. But the actual feat isn't too bad either.

Anyways, I did like the flavor of curses also granting boons, but I've also never actually played an oracle so I can't say whether or not the feature was well-balanced.

Paizo Employee Community and Social Media Specialist

18 people marked this as a favorite.

Fortell Ham would only warn you of its existence, not that it would be free ;)


Virellius wrote:
firelark01 wrote:
Will the ashes and time oracles also be remastered, or will they stay forever stuck in the past?
I'm playing a time oracle so I hope I does get some touchups lol.

It is likely you can expect some Day 1 errata to drop with it, possibly with War of Immortals (we are expected to have our second errata push of the year around that time), but ultimately you probably just have to wait and see what PFS says to do, just like with Mosquito Witch and Baba Yaga Witch patrons (and even then Pact Witch was left hung out to dry...).


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm... anxious. What I'm getting out of this post is that the cool part of Oracle was ripped out and tossed overboard, and now it has a feat price-tag attached if you want it back.

I don't like this. The cursebound actions sound cool insofar as having a specific array of actions to use is something I like (kineticist, commander and thaumaturge are pretty much the best classes in the game), but it comes at the price of curse benefits no longer being tied to the base class, preventing mysteries from being designed to cater to a specific playstyle. This takes away a lot of Oracle's identity, in my eyes.

Remastered Oracle looks like it's not for me. Which frustrates me, because it used to be *very much* for me.


The level 10 feat as written right now makes me have some doubts about how it works...

It says "using your spell attack modifier, and then disappear" but later "The warriors disappear at the start of your next turn.", so do they occupy space or not? they give flank, do they prevent allies from finishing their turn in the same space and block the way for enemies or not? can it be used as a wall?

The text doesn't say anything about MAP but the spirits do Strikes. How does the feat interact with MAP?


I'm a big fan of this. Definitely makes oracles substantially more powerful. Suspect Cosmos, Time, Ash, and Tempest oracles are top tier now.

I'm interested in what changes (if any) they made to the mysteries, especially the weaker ones.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Angel2357 wrote:

I'm... anxious. What I'm getting out of this post is that the cool part of Oracle was ripped out and tossed overboard, and now it has a feat price-tag attached if you want it back.

I don't like this. The cursebound actions sound cool insofar as having a specific array of actions to use is something I like (kineticist, commander and thaumaturge are pretty much the best classes in the game), but it comes at the price of curse benefits no longer being tied to the base class, preventing mysteries from being designed to cater to a specific playstyle. This takes away a lot of Oracle's identity, in my eyes.

Remastered Oracle looks like it's not for me. Which frustrates me, because it used to be *very much* for me.

From my reading since the warriors are making the strike it would use their map even though it's using your spell attack mod. Also, while the descriptor text says makes a strike and disappear it doesn't say when they disappears so the last line clarifies that after making a strike when you use the power they disappear at the start of your next turn. This lets your allies gain flanking buddies for a turn.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I hope we have some proficiency scaling changes to go with these more fundamental changes to the class as well.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So... the big flavor bit of the Oracle is now no longer really available unless you spend very sparse class feats? Human power remains, I guess.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wait, so the super awesome curses which are what drew me and Im sure others to the oracle, like oracles big defining feature, are being taken away and locked behind feats? We have to spend feats, things we usually want to buff ourselves, to bring back the curse/kiss gameplay, which is not necessarily a buff?

Mmmmmrgh.

I was happy that they're finally giving free spells so that flames oracle doesn't feel sad. But I think this might be worse. :( obviously tooo late in the prints to change it now.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Angel2357 wrote:

I'm... anxious. What I'm getting out of this post is that the cool part of Oracle was ripped out and tossed overboard, and now it has a feat price-tag attached if you want it back.

I don't like this. The cursebound actions sound cool insofar as having a specific array of actions to use is something I like (kineticist, commander and thaumaturge are pretty much the best classes in the game), but it comes at the price of curse benefits no longer being tied to the base class, preventing mysteries from being designed to cater to a specific playstyle. This takes away a lot of Oracle's identity, in my eyes.

Remastered Oracle looks like it's not for me. Which frustrates me, because it used to be *very much* for me.

This is what people wanted Oracle to be from the beginning. It is closer to 1e's ideas without sacrificing too much of the straightforward, impeding Curse design they wanted to stop the obvious issue of people min-maxing curses. People wanted options to customize and indulge in the spiritual well diving simulation of Oracle, not be constrained to one core idea of what they are. Especially if the core idea was really awful ala Lore.

The first take on Oracle also had the issue of being really hard to actually cross into, despite it not making sense. Anyone that wanted to dive deeper in the mysteries of divine power should be able to become Oracles, yet the Multiclass was SOOOOO constrained, you barely get anything out of it. Moving all the curses and effects to feats means that other classes can properly interact with the systems and powers more.

Besides, much of the identity you like didn't even came from the curses but from mystery bonuses and focus spells. A lot of curses didn't actually interfere or promote a specific playstyle, like how Life just got to keep blasting but now also heal or Cosmos didn't even do anything for the most part. In fact, some like Lore ran COUNTER to the idea of picking the subclass (gain all languages, have no way to communicate???), making you question what the point was. Those things are still around, it just now they can focus on putting the meat of the core experience separate from the penalties that cripple you. Very few people play Oracle, 1e or 2e, for the price, but many for the power.


It's looking reeeeally really good!

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Twiggies wrote:

Wait, so the super awesome curses which are what drew me and Im sure others to the oracle, like oracles big defining feature, are being taken away and locked behind feats? We have to spend feats, things we usually want to buff ourselves, to bring back the curse/kiss gameplay, which is not necessarily a buff?

Mmmmmrgh.

I was happy that they're finally giving free spells so that flames oracle doesn't feel sad. But I think this might be worse. :( obviously tooo late in the prints to change it now.

Makes me wish Paizo had time to actually let us playtest and give feedback, so at least some of the blame on PF2Re is on Wizards of the Hasbro.

This and previous Remaster stuff does not bode well for the Vending Machine class.


"to really make you feel like you’re channeling otherworldly powers."

but is there a spider-man based otherworldly power? I really want to *feel* like spider-man.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh damn, this looks amazing. I hope the final product is as good as this teaser. This looks way better.


Wait, do the spirit warriors disappear after striking or at the start of your next turn?

Verdant Wheel

Mysteries are like Domains now (three spells in repertoire).

I see the bones of my Ancestors oracle who used to try and juggle all the forbiddance flat checks by having viable alternatives in different "modes" (attack, skill, spell) for things like doing damage, healing damage, applying debuff, etc.

I wonder if I will opt back into that complexity with Meddling Futures?

Speaking of Meddling Futures, cool to see rejiggering and retitling of abilities that lean into the "curse" theme and open up variation for different builds within each Mystery.

Very excited to see the final product!


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Seems to address my personal issues with Oracle. Had to pay a feat to get relevant spells, using their focus spells was a big calculation instead of something reliable, and so in the end you mostly were a divine caster with passives tied to drawbacks.

New Oracle gets three spells to suit the theme, a few freebies halfway through, casts focus spells normally, and has a separate curse track to fuel special abilities. With focus spells and cursebound actions, I can probably go a whole combat without dipping into slots. Or, as shown, cursebound actions can easily be fit in alongside big-ticket spells.

And, as with all the remastered material, we have the advantage of still having the old version around.


Glad to hear there are serious changes. But nothing specific here grabs my attention.

Horizon Hunters

I loved everything i've read!


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition Subscriber

How does “The Dead Walk” work with MAP? Does this imply that they are effectively separate entities with separate MAP counters? “Two ghostly warriors manifest within a 30-foot emanation of you and each attempt a Strike against an adjacent enemy”


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I was confused by the "June 10th" date .


1 person marked this as a favorite.

No experience with them but it sounds like a lot more options with some good trade-offs.

Am I detecting a cross-class trend though? First Kineticist gets "take an open gate action...AND get a free action blast/stance." Swash is getting "take a skill action...AND get panache" (well, they already had it. But giving panache on a fail means taking the action is a much lower regret choice). Oracle is getting a feat which is "cast a non-cantrip damaging spell...AND do some extra damage in exchange for bumping up your curse."

Could 'perform a sudden rush AND enter rage' be next? Ooh, how about 'perform an RK check AND take a free action devise a stratagem'? I'm really liking the whole 'feats/class powers make other actions dual use' concept.

Verdant Wheel

Oh, and the Multiclass Dedication is now unshed of it's cursebound flat-footed nonsense.

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