Lizardfolk Scion

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Claxon wrote:

Yeah, there are plenty of things that NPCs can do that can just be given to them without concerns about balance, but when it comes to allowing PCs to gain options careful consideration should be given to how a new ability could interact with others, which is very very hard to do well.

I for one, am against the concept of "anything an NPC can do, a PC should be able to do" because it makes designing the game very hard.

I concur. Wasn't the concept of "everything an npc does, PCs should get to do" part of why PF1e had that horrendous spellbloat of like 70% way-too-niche spells and then 10% "oh god why this is clearly intended for a big bad villain this is way too strong for PCs" spells? (and 20% regular whatever spells)

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I'd really love some stuff that focused on daggers. Similar to single element focused blasters, a sneaky type equipped with just a dagger and her wits is such a classic archetype to me that is strangely sorely underrepresented. PF1e had the Knife Master archetype to help make daggers a not horrible weapon, the Spheres of Power 3pp system I played with PF1e also had dagger specific talents you could pick up to make them more competitive. I'd love something like an archetype or some feats to make daggers stand as their own option and not have to make "well i know this is just plain worse" sacrifices.

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A single element focused (fire) blaster that I won't feel awful playing! <3

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Oh exciting! I'm part chinese so I'm looking forward to some chinese inspired options--Or even cover non cn/jp stuff because asia is really quite vast. My unfounded hope is some Malaysia stuff lol (im specifically malaysian chinese). I see Wayang and I'm curious what the Bakuwa is in reference to!

Edit: Did some googling and ohh is it a reference to Philippine mythology, Bakunawa?! People that realise there's more to asia than just china japan korea? Okay now I'm definitely infinitely hyped! Will have to buy these! With more actual lore in maybe some players can see there's more to it than just samurais and kitsune.

Thanks for all the answers everyone--That helps a lot. It's a bit of a shame to hear that some Uncommon stuff does end up being stronger/more unvetted, means I have to keep my eye out for those more given it's a server rather than a table of folks I trust. And yeah I agree that is a problem I have with it too YuriP. Reminds me of the chaos of a 3pp system I used in 1e where they marked certain items as 'Legendary' which can mean anywhere between "this is kinda weird lore wise" to "yeah this just does a million damage with no counterplay lol" but obviously on a much lower scale. Anyway thanks again :)


I know uncommon ancestries are less uncommon because of balance, and more because of lore stuff.

Is it the same with weapons? Would I break anything in a server (friends are trying out a living world server to see how it goes with the 2e system) if we just, let everyone take uncommon weapons without having to fitz around with being from certain areas (not set in golarion) or taking specific ancestry feats? Crossed my mind when I found the fighting fan which is literally a worse War Razor while still being Uncommon.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Regarding the single fire gate kineticist, fire immunity is honestly fairly rare in PF2, mostly limited to fire type creatures (e.g. elementals) and devils. So you just need something to do in those specific cases.

Yeah so the question from me is, will they be giving additional options to the single gate kineticist to help with situations such as those. Earlier someone mentioned making it a feat or even baseline (I think it should be baseline for single gate) that they can choose between the energy damage or a physical damage type for their blasts which would help with it. But I'd also just be immensely disappointed if playing a fire lad means using physical most of the time cuz it's not just immunities, it's the host of resistances too, having a resistance manager (ideally built in for single gates so it's not a tax since I'm 80% sure single will be objectively weaker because versatility is king) like a buffed version of extract element would help I think.

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Again I just hope that fire single gate char can do well and not get road blocked by the army of fire resistance/immunities when they are already purposely choosing not to get much more utility (and potentially doubling-tripling said utility level of other feats). If I have to read more guides that say "pick anything except fire from this list" I will cry.

I'm not too fussed with needing The Biggest HP, but con definitely needs to do something else for the class too. Having it be used for attacking as noted on the analysis with would be a good start. Maybe even bleed a small amount of it into AC somehow, my biggest hmm is regarding skills though. I love playing with skills and I'm worried on that front Hah. A silly idea would be that the kinet can choose One skill to use con for but that'd probably get into chaos zone with athletics or something lol.

Dancing Wind wrote:
Jon_Danger wrote:
just take over what WOTC has decided to throw away?


Hasbro (WotC) is not throwing away anything. To the contrary, they're now claiming that "all your base are belong to us". If you write anything that relies on their OGL, they get a perpetual irrevocable license to do anything they want with your intellectual property.

Not only that, if I parsed this document correctly, not only can they do anything they want with your IP, but they can also make *you* pay *them* if they get into some kind of trouble with your IP.

WOTC wrote:

XI. INDEMNITY. If You get in legal trouble, or get Us in legal trouble, here’s what will happen:

A. If We are on the receiving end of any legal claims, fees, expenses, or penalties related to Your Licensed Works, You are responsible for paying all Our costs, including attorneys’ fees, costs of court, and any judgments or settlements.

B. If a claim is raised against You in connection with a Licensed Work, and You aren’t defending such a claim to Our satisfaction, We have the right, but not the obligation, to take over the defense of that claim against You. If We do so, You will reimburse Us for Our costs and expenses related to that defense.

C. We may, at Our discretion, seek to intervene in a case brought against You in order to join in the defense of the claims, while leaving You and Your counsel in charge of Your own defense. If We do so, We will defend at Our own expense and cost. As for Our IP, that’s Ours to defend – You don’t have any obligation to defend Dungeons & Dragons IP Yourself, and in fact wouldn’t have standing (the legal right) to do so even if We wanted You to.

If you guys haven't seen it, there's a scrubbed pdf with the text of the OGL. Note, it's been confirmed by Griffon's Saddlebags that this was sent out with contracts. The whole thing. osted_a_scrubbed_pdf/

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Lucerious wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
In which case, that's by design: Sometimes you can't take a Large creature everywhere.
I sort of disagree. There are a number of mechanics that treat size increases as purely beneficial and mandatory. Feel like it makes more sense that some of these are oversights and not Paizo trying to create a weird corner case to nerf a very specific build if you happen to be walking down a narrow hallway.
Per my recollection, PF1 had animal companions grow to large normally as part of their level advancement. I think the size increase may be a holdover concept that wasn’t something the designers believed needed or wanted changed.

1e also had the option to let you choose not to increase your animals size, and instead you got a bonus to Dex and Con instead of the other bonuses for advancement.

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Thanks folks for all the opinions and thoughts and stuff. Appreciate it. Might try what cavernshark proposed.

While I know that Oracles are able to get spells via the Divine Access feat, my issue with it for the two aforementioned oracle mysteries is that it feels like a *tax* just to give them spells fitting and thematic for their mystery (and in fact, the kinds needed for some benefits), whilst for other mysteries it's more like a neat thing you pick up, not feeling as mandatory, if that makes sense? Plus it also potentially locks them out of newer fire/stormy spells that come out.

Tldr; Would giving Flames Oracles and Tempest Oracles the Primal tradition instead of Divine make anything weird/too strong/too weak?

Was looking at how sad it was for Flames Oracle and Tempest Oracle where they have so few spells within the divine spell list for their mystery and overall theme. Considering that some other classes have options for different spell traditions I thought it was lame for these two in particular who basically need to feat tax the deific spells to actually get stuff (well more than like 4 spells spread out) that works with their mystery.

So I thought to houserule it so that these two get given the Primal spell list instead of the Divine spell list. Just wanted some opinions. Do you guys think that'd cause any major or minor issues or should it be fine?

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I'm glad most of the points of concern that I personally was concerned about was brought up. I hope the next one goes well!

I think the biggest thing I'm worried about is the single gate kineticist. I really hope you guys bump up what they can do and their strengths if someone wants to pursue a single element, because one of the strongest things you could ever have is versatility, and a single element kinet is losing out on that by trying to do that. This is particularly obvious when you look at certain feats, that give you multiple options depending on what elements you have, this means that effectively one feat is "worth" 2 for someone with 2 elements, and more when you get more.

Something like making people that focus on a single element actually more reliable to blast through resistances, and giving them more boons in general, etc etc... Especially the resistances/immunity thing tbh, fire focused characters are such a popular trope, but every system ever has always done their best to block it with an army of fire resistances and immunities, so I hope this might be the one that actually bucks that trend and lets those folk exist more comfortably.

Here we go, this is what I made up for build ideas to see if I'm on the right track. Of course getting a newbie to build I probably messed some things up hard core but here we go.

Table Rules:
*Group has a rule that you can't have more than one stat be negative before racials.
*Elephant in the Room Feat Taxes (Just that page, not the full document)
*25 Point Buy
*Can select two traits. One additional trait can be chosen if I take a drawback. A bonus feat can be taken if I take a major drawback. Can only select one trait from a list (so no selecting two combat traits, or two social traits etc)
*We can also take a background, with another rule being that we can take a bonus feat of our choice rather than what feat a background might give us as long as it makes sense in the context of that background.

I definitely want Human for flavour reasons. And remember, his whole shtick is that did card readings for people, but they weren't real magic ones (prior to Witch-Patron Shenganisn) just whatever ones.

As far as gear, I have no idea. I'm already having enough trouble trying to figure out Feats.

Cartomancer Witch/Kung Fu Genius Far Strike Unchained Monk

o Split between martial and caster.

+ Lots of feats, Monk side can pick up the ones to buff my throws while Witch side can focus on the hexes.
+ Full BAB also means better accuracy sending touch spells out.
+ Scaling card damage
+ Fort and Ref saves to round out all the saves.
+ Good AC with unarmored

- Can't use the Monk and Witch class features on the same turn. I'm either going to Flurry of Blows, or I'm going to cast a spell or hex. There's less of a mesh of the classes, and I'll kinda just be one or the other each turn.
ie if I want to keep a hex going with Cackle, I'm basically not going to use Flurry of Blows for the rest of the combat to keep it up.

Possible Build:


Undecided Witch patron (lol)
Traits: Clever Wordplay (Bluff uses Int), Reactionary (Init + 2)
Background: Merchant (Bluff, Diplomacy)
Level 1
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle

Lvl 1 Feat - Extra Hex (Cackle)
Bonus Human Feat - Accursed Hex
Bonus Monk 1 Feat - Precise Shot
Bonus Monk Feat - Quick Draw
Background Feat (Merchant) - Deceitful

Level 2
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer
Bonus Monk 2 Feat - Far Shot
Free Witch Feat - Deadly Dealer, Arcane Strike (but only for Deadly Dealer)

Level 3
Lvl 3 Feat - Improved Initiative

Level 4
+1 Int (bringing it up to 19)
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune
Bonus Monk Feat - Shot on the Run

Level 5
Lvl 5 Feat - Ability Focus (Misfortune)
(And cards now use scaling monk damage and ki focus stuff)

Level 6
Bonus Monk 6 Feat - Improved Precise Shot
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye

Level 7
Lvl 7 Feat - Spell Penetration

Level 8
+1 Int (bringing it up to 20)
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye, Slumber

Level 9
Lvl 9 Feat - Combat Casting

Level 10
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye, Slumber, Charm
Major Hex - Retribution
Bonus Monk 10 Feat - Pinpoint Targeting


Feytouched Hexer Cartomancer Witch/Wit Bard (Wit seems like a neat archetype but I don't know for sure...I don't think verbal dueling will come up often to lose Jack of All Trades but the initiative stuff and the bluff etc skills is nice):

o More focused on support and full casting.

+ Lots of class skills, CHA fits the flavour better
+ Can maintain bardic performance while doing Witchy things.
+ Cartomancer can deliver touch spells not just from Witch list (I think), so additional spells from Bard can support that. All the Cure Wounds!!
+ Lots of spells to choose from.
+ Minutes per level flight at lvl 5

- Bard doesn't help with extra feats. Feats are going to be hard having to decide between Witch hexes, Bard performances and buffing card throws. Though cards won't be thrown as often, only for touch spells.
- Weak damage if I am stuck throwing cards, but with so many spells that shouldn't happen too often.
- Weaker fort save and AC

Possible Build:


Witch Patron doesn't matter because all the spells gets replaced.
Traits: ??? (honestly have no idea)
Background: Merchant (Bluff, Diplomacy)
Level 1
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle

Lvl 1 Feat - Extra Hex (Cackle)
Bonus Human Feat - Discordant Voice (Or Lingering Performance if I can't get it as a background feat)
Background Feat (Merchant) - Lingering Performance (I think I can make an argument for this, otherwise I'll pick Prodigy)

Level 2
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer
Free Witch Feat - Deadly Dealer, Arcane Strike (but only for Deadly Dealer)

Level 3
Lvl 3 Feat - Precise Shot

Level 4
+1 Cha (bringing it up to 19)
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune

Level 5
Lvl 5 Feat - Improved Initiative

Level 6
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye

Level 7
Lvl 7 Feat - Ability Focus (Misfortune)

Level 8
+1 Int (bringing it up to 20)
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye, Slumber

Level 9
Lvl 9 Feat - Combat Casting

Level 10
Hexes - Fortune, Cackle, Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye, Slumber, Charm
Major Hex - Retribution

I honestly have no idea what I'm doing. But my best! Hoorah!

Melkiador wrote:
If we’re doing third party, then use the unchained far strike monk from purple duck games.

Cheers, I'll have an ask and see if that's alright.

So I think Cartomancer Witch/Kung Fu Genius monk and Feytouched Hexer Cartomancer Witch/Bard of an undecided Archetype (one that would let me use Perform(Act) for Counterspell etc) are my two prime options right now. I'll try and see if I can build something with both as it might help give an idea of what I might want to play going forward. (Help appreciated, of course, because a dumb newbie like me building is definitely gonna make some dumb decisions)

Thanks foe the suggestions!
With Kung Fu Genius, Far Strike Monk definitely looks really promising and fun. Bonus feats to support better throwing so I'm not quite so feat starved and even scaling damage dice that I so covet. It even gets Perform as a class skill.

Of course the issue I think is that I'd have to choose between being a witch or being a monk each turn as far as attacking vs casting a spell, but the range increase will help to deliver touch spells and it sounds fun and scratches that card throwing itch. I'll definitely consider it alongside the Feytouched Hexer Cartomancer/Bard idea.

Thanks folks. I had a talk with someone else too (as I asked this question a few places, because I want lots of opinions), who suggested I pick up the Card Caster Magus instead if I wanted to fling cards and do spells too, since I can then actually do damage with them and use a spell simultaneously and then there's better synergy with say, a Ninja for a ton of class skills. Though I don't like the flavour of the Magus as much as the Witch since I'm fond of patrons and hexes, which makes me realise I may need to rethink how I'm going into this.

In my head I realise I've been trying to do too many things at once, I want the flavour of a Witch's patron, the support they can provide with their spells and hexes, but then I also want to be a semi-face with skills like Bluff and maybe Perform, but then I *also* want to toss cards around. That's a lot of different facets of a character and I'm going to go deep into the 'master of none' categories if I keep that up.

If I wanted to fling cards around more, perhaps a Card Caster Magus would be my best bet. I was politely reminded that if I did say, Witch/Fighter, I could only do one thing at a time, cast a spell/hex or do damage with a card, effectively being one class per turn in a sense.

But maybe I should slow myself down and remember what my initial goal was before I got overwhelmed by the Gestalt system. A Cartomancer Witch was simply something I got massively interested in because of the fun flavour of a Witch patron, the support of hex and spells from the Witch's list, while replacing familiars (which I didn't want for this character) to *once in a while* using cards to deliver touch spells.

I think maybe I should not focus so much on trying to buff the card damage itself. It would be good to increase the accuracy of them so I can land my ranged-touch attacks reliably, but I was getting tunnel visioned on buffing the base damage of them to the point it would have been better to go Magus. Which maybe I will, I don't know, I haven't decided yet.

All in all I think my brain might be about to fry. What I want for flavour isn't matching what I can do mechanically. I might be cheeky, and ask about the possibility of using CHA as a casting stat instead of INT (like the seducer witch, but without... the themes of it) so I can go for a Cartomancer/Bard which I think fits perfectly for what I wnat thematically.

In the meantime I might have to bite the bullet and look at other Int classes and just learn to manage multiple spell lists, or go for a Card Magus with Ninja/Rogue.


EDIT: I think a solution, for me, has been found. Seducer Witch is way too uncomfortable, but some 3PP is allowed, and I'm allowed to use the Feytouched Hexer, which thankfully doesn't seem to clash with Cartomancer. This gives me Charisma casting stat, spontaneous casting (which is nice for my pea sized brain), and some fun flavour with Fae because Fae are neat. This will let me Gestalt easier with Bard which will definitely give me the flavour I want for an ex-con artist and performances with the harrow card readings. I might get really feat starved though because I'd want things to buff my throwing accuracy, things to get me more hexes, and then things to buff my performance. That's the main concern.

However that's just for my specific character flavour, and I'd still be interested in hearing ideas for other Cartomancer gestalt ideas in case I change my mind.

Hey folks! So I really wanted to do something with the Cartomancer Witch Archetype, because cards are hella cool. I think my current idea for a basic backstory would be a fairly young human who does fake harrowed readings, because I was thinking about how some people really charge for irl tarot readings that are defo scams. I think from my skimming (and do correct me if I'm wrong), is that to do actual Harrows with actual effects you'd need some kind of spell or innate magic stuff. Since witches get their magic from their patron I was thinking to play on that idea. Or that Cartomancers don't really have built in stuff with the Harrow readings/card effects specifically, so that even he doesn't really know the 'proper' way to do it and is just making it up (he just came up with his own system similar to how there are many different tarot spreads).

So for some reason or another he's finding himself living out alone, perhaps to prove himself. Except he can't, he's stuck. And, desperate for money so he can actually survive, he decides to get this little thing set up to do fake readings for good luck and fortune and whatever for a little bit of money, because they're harmless enough and it makes people happy and intrigued. this probably goes on for some years. but eventually for some reason I have yet to figure out a patron/deity notices him and it starts actually having legit effects (Fortune or misfortune hex, soothsayer, etc) to which he's like "oh shit that's really freaking weird but also that's kinda cool because now I can legit help people and actually do something with my life" and all that.


That was my idea for my Cartomancer Witch character, which I wanted to use joining a group. I got thrown off course though when I learned that they were using the gestalt system, which was a whole thing of explaining to me how that worked.

So I've been thinking about what to Gestalt my Cartomancer Witch with, but have been absolutely stumped between flavour and like, actually being useful. Doesn't help I'm new to Pathfinder, so I don't know all of the classes, archetypes and little effects that might pair well. I would love some ideas.

It's a 25 point buy system, "Elephant in the Room" feat tax changes, and some 3PP stuff is allowed.

Bard might be fun because it would tie in with how he 'Performed' fake readings, he'd have a decent charisma to bluff and diplomacy people from all of it. I also like the support aspects of a bard's abilities. I'd probably choose one of the subclasses that lets me use Perform (Act) for some of the bardic performances, though the idea of doing acting to give buffs is kinda of something I can't imagine seriously. And there's the issue of having to up Charisma as a stat as well for bard spells, competing with Int for my Witch, Dex for card tossing and Con for survivability.

Another idea is simply Fighter. All the bonus feats seems awesome so I can grab more hexes and buff my card's throwing abilities, I think I could get Focused Weapon to even make my cards do more damage if I'm not casting. And I won't have to worry about a different stat. Armor Master seems a bit wasted though if I'll be going Light Armor. It's not a particularly charismatic kind of class that adds a ton of flavour though, and I'd miss not having some class skills like Bluff.

I know Card Caster Magus is the obvious one, but something about it is like not quite clicking with me. I think I'm a bit scared of managing two separate spell lists with separate class feature effects since Magus has a lot of stuff that is for their spells specifically and stuff to throw in for attacks and, and I guess I'm just confused.

Again, I'd love any ideas on what might be fun. Thanks!