Dragons That Rock!

Look at that big, chonky dragon!

Chonk chucks chunks!

I'm really liking the new dragons. I'm certainly going to enjoy the look on players faces when they encounter one of these. I've got some old timey D&D players in my group and them not knowing what to expect out of something like this is going to be pretty sweet.

My favorite part of this is they say its one of the skymetal dragons. That just makes me wonder what an abysium dragon would be like.

> one of the skymetal dragons
so are getting a dragon for each skymetal?? If we are getting a dragon for each skymetal then we will need lore to extrapolate on the metals! AND IF NUMERIAN STEEL IS ONE OF THEM THEN THAT MEANS LOST OMENS: NUMERIA CONFIRMED

Very big How To Train Your Dragon vibes with these designs. I like them. They're a nice departure from traditional D&D dragons.

Dragon mining is a dangerous profession but the few that survive are well rewarded.

That's a unit!

Love the visuals summoned in my mind by the rock-spew avalanche breath weapon. It could have burrowed through anything underground. Cemetery…mass grave…purely by chance…honest!

Really gives me Monster Hunter vibes. I love it!

I love them. Would make for a great plushie

I really hope there’s a Pathfinder Battles miniature set in the works for some of the new creatures (and some of the old ones that don’t have miniatures). I really wish some of the old minis would either get reprinted or updated and rereleased.

My wishlist hope would be an upgraded Adventure Path subscription that included 3D stl files for the new monsters and combat involved NPCS introduced each month. I don’t know if their contract with WizKids would allow such a thing but it would be a nice way to have minis without needing the complications of Pathfinder Battles release. Or if nothing else, maybe a PDF of printable pawns. And maybe have the new monster stats prepared as printable battle cards.

Look at that big, chonky dragon!

OH LAWD HE COMIN'

Umm..did Dodogama just earn his wings?

Starfinder already features skymetal (or rather, starmetal) dragons, including adamantine, but looks like these will be a distinct take.

Cool. We gonna get Mithril, Orichalcum, and Cold Iron dragons too?

My favorite part of this is they say its one of the skymetal dragons. That just makes me wonder what an abysium dragon would be like.

If there are eventually more skymetal dragons, and a noqual dragon has antimagic properties like this here chonky boi has anti-physical properties, I'm rather interested in seeing how a fight against a pair of those would play out. I'd love to see the party have to split their attention with the martials dealing with the noqual dragon while the casters fend off the adamantine boy

Newdragonsnewdragonnewdragonsnewdragonsnewdagrons!!!

I'm excite.

"Adamantine dragons tend to use their shovel-like mouths to scoop up chunks of earth, consuming whatever rocks and unfortunate creatures are swept up in their bites. Instead of a typical dragon breath, adamantine dragons belch up all of these rocks, unleashing a veritable avalanche from within their bodies. While adamantine dragons typically don’t have the ability to cast spells, they make up for it with their hardy bodies and powerful blows."

This remind anyone else of Dodogama? Or have I just been playing too much Monster Hunter lately? :P

I love them. Would make for a great plushie

DON'T do this to me. I have too many plushies as is.

But anyways, I'm wondering whether the new dragons will still stick to the rule of five. My OCD hopes so, but the rational part of my brain wants to see what happens if they break away from it.

Now I hope to see a much more dangerous opponent - horacalcum dragon.

This just leaves me full of wonder about what's going to happen with kobolds/whatever the de-OGL'd equivalent for Dragon Disciple ends up being (if there even is one!) in (presumably) PC2.

My favorite part of this is they say its one of the skymetal dragons. That just makes me wonder what an abysium dragon would be like.

I'm personally curious about what a djezet dragon would be like, the only dragon naturally liquid at room temperature!

William Vaughn wrote:

My favorite part of this is they say its one of the skymetal dragons. That just makes me wonder what an abysium dragon would be like.

I'm personally curious about what a djezet dragon would be like, the only dragon naturally liquid at room temperature!

Dragon slime.

> one of the skymetal dragons

so are getting a dragon for each skymetal?? If we are getting a dragon for each skymetal then we will need lore to extrapolate on the metals! AND IF NUMERIAN STEEL IS ONE OF THEM THEN THAT MEANS LOST OMENS: NUMERIA CONFIRMED

Skymetal Dragons are from Starfinder

They just are called Starmetal Dragons in starfinder, because space

This just leaves me full of wonder about what's going to happen with kobolds/whatever the de-OGL'd equivalent for Dragon Disciple ends up being (if there even is one!) in (presumably) PC2.

One of teh recent stream mentioned that they will de-emphasize the relations with dragons, and focus of a similar relation to the magical traditions that the dragons now have.

[...]

But anyways, I'm wondering whether the new dragons will still stick to the rule of five. My OCD hopes so, but the rational part of my brain wants to see what happens if they break away from it.

Do you mean the "5 dragons per type"? It's broken here, as we know of the 8 new dragons, 2 for each magical traditions (Arcane, Divine, Occult, Primal). It will help to differentiate from the "expression" of the OGL dragons as a whole.

One of teh recent stream mentioned that they will de-emphasize the relations with dragons, and focus of a similar relation to the magical traditions that the dragons now have.
If I understood correctly, it means that instead of being "They are like Dragon X", it's more "some dragons are related to Divine Magic, and some kobolds are related to divine magic". The difference is subtle, but it's basically skipping the "middle-dragon"?

Interesting. I wonder whether they're making room for another ancestry that could be more directly related with dragons. Or perhaps a versatile heritage, one that might be coming in Player Core 2.

Love it

Skymetal dragon!?

So... how about djezet dragon? Will they manifold their body?

Hmmm, I wonder... If the 8 skymetals each get a dragon, will these new metal dragons replace older versions of metal dragons?

I would be totally on board with that!!!

Hmmm, so who replaces the old color dragons? I want to guess Arcane, but that might be too obvious. But Arcane feels right to me.

What are the names of the eight dragons they have mentioned for Remastered?

Elfteiroh wrote:

One of teh recent stream mentioned that they will de-emphasize the relations with dragons, and focus of a similar relation to the magical traditions that the dragons now have.
If I understood correctly, it means that instead of being "They are like Dragon X", it's more "some dragons are related to Divine Magic, and some kobolds are related to divine magic". The difference is subtle, but it's basically skipping the "middle-dragon"?

Interesting. I wonder whether they're making room for another ancestry that could be more directly related with dragons. Or perhaps a versatile heritage, one that might be coming in Player Core 2.

I would not hold very strong hope for an ancestry that would look too much like a WotC Dragonborn, but on the other hand the Wyvaran of southern Gardund look pretty cool and could as easily suffice--albeit I speculate not in the Player Core.

On the other hand, it is interesting to see how kobolds have gone from "naturally suited sorcerers" by virtue of their association with draconic bloodlines to by virtue of their association with the four traditions of magic.

PS, for speculating what ancestries and heritages are to be available in PC2, I believe it has been said there is a loose link between them and the classes chosen. Probably wouldn't find any 1:1 relationship, but for example, Leshies and Changelings had notably appeared in PC1 to be paired with Druid and Witch respectively. Kobolds almost certainly are paired with Sorcerer similarly.

As for the names of the eight dragons, I don't know if they've all been revealed yet, but the ones I remember off the top of my head:
- Diabolic (Divine - Hell)
- Empyrean? (Divine - Heaven)
- Mirage (Arcane - Illusion)
- Adamantine (Primal - Skymetal)
- Horned? (Primal)
- Omen (Occult)
- Fortune (?)

There's at least one more either occult or arcane dragon I can't remember the name of

The last is the Conspirator dragon, which technically appears on the cover of Player Core 2. I say technically because it's really a polymorphed Seoni.

Neat to see one of the dragons from Starfinder showing up in PF2e! Starmetal dragons are real neat, so I'm interested to see what's different and the same between the Adamantine Dragon in both systems.

I like that these guys aren't usually spell casters. Makes it sound like the new dragons will be less copy/paste than the chromatics.

The text on that drawing is really small.

The text on that drawing is really small.

Allow me:

Side View - Tail
It --ke is sort of like a rock spine, of overlapping scales with thin plate like spikes.

Side View - Legs
It has shorter stubbier arms that are thin in the side view making them act like shovels or spades.

Side View - Scale Close Up (bottom)
Scale design language. Doesn't need to be perfect right angles, but gives the impression of squared off forms.

Side View - Under Neck
Its head and neck are much more stout and thick than the other dragons. It should look like it is heavy and could really burrow into dirt with ease.

Top Down - Wing Tip (centre)
Wings follow the square like design language of the scales. They may overall be rounded but the components such as the spikes, plates, tips, and negative spaces of the webbing are very squared of.

Top Down - Shoulder
Its wings are covered in scales that collect on the wing hand and radiate out onto the square finger tips. It has the appearance of broken slate stone.

Head Detail - Horn
Temporal Horns shoot straight back from the top part of the skull. Are not attached to the gill plate or the jaw. They should be rugged and chipped and follow the same squared off design language

Head Detail - Nose
Nasal horn shoots forward. Looks like a chipped wedge of hard metallic rock. Hard to distinguish where the head starts and the horn stops.

Head Detail- Jaw
The lower jaw has a significant scoop-like underbite. Teeth like plates over the jaw and chin. Under the jaw is a softer flesh on its throat that is pebbled with squared plates and nodes. They resemble rocks stuck in a muddy embankment.

Head Detail - Gill Plate (left, between top view and head view)
Gill plate scales along the bottom of the neck show large separation. It scallops into the form of the neck, a concave recess. This is the air intake that projects flames.

Head Detail - Neck (bottom)
The lower part of the neck hangs down in a less rigid fashion. It should thin in and hang, like a large dog's neck.

How big is this? because I'm imagining an adventure set in a mining town where they have been mining adamantine for generations and finally the deepest mine strikes something... softer. The sleeping dragon they've been mining awakens and the whole thing is about evacuating people from this town sized monster.

What kind of corporation would an Adamantine Dragon run? I can see the new dragons being fun in Starfinder.

What kind of corporation would an Adamantine Dragon run? I can see the new dragons being fun in Starfinder.

Any one they wanted to? </rimshot>

I could see one backing exploratory forays into the Vast to find new deposits.

What kind of corporation would an Adamantine Dragon run? I can see the new dragons being fun in Starfinder.

Maybe a digging/excavation business? When nations rise, fall, and renovate, the dragon is there to reap all the rewards.

"Some primal dragons even grow natural features on their bodies, like small plants."

THIS! I'M SOLD!

Ever since I've played FFXII I've been in love with the Elder Wyrm and now a whole category of dragons in Golarion are naturally like that. I love this game!

I would not hold very strong hope for an ancestry that would look too much like a WotC Dragonborn, but on the other hand the Wyvaran of southern Gardund look pretty cool and could as easily suffice--albeit I speculate not in the Player Core.

On the other hand, it is interesting to see how kobolds have gone from "naturally suited sorcerers" by virtue of their association with draconic bloodlines to by virtue of their association with the four traditions of magic.

PS, for speculating what ancestries and heritages are to be available in PC2, I believe it has been said there is a loose link between them and the classes chosen. Probably wouldn't find any 1:1 relationship, but for example, Leshies and Changelings had notably appeared in PC1 to be paired with Druid and Witch respectively. Kobolds almost certainly are paired with Sorcerer similarly.

The thing about Dragonborn is that they have a very specific official design and aren't just anthro dragons. There is actually a LOT of wiggle room for draconic racial options that won't step on WOTC's toes. Especially if it's a VH connected to dragons the way, say, geniekin are to elementals, which would allow for lots of mixing and matching of draconic features.

Very nice!

How big is this? because I'm imagining an adventure set in a mining town where they have been mining adamantine for generations and finally the deepest mine strikes something... softer. The sleeping dragon they've been mining awakens and the whole thing is about evacuating people from this town sized monster.

I assume they would be like similarly based on age category

The thing about Dragonborn is that they have a very specific official design and aren't just anthro dragons. There is actually a LOT of wiggle room for draconic racial options that won't step on WOTC's toes. Especially if it's a VH connected to dragons the way, say, geniekin are to elementals, which would allow for lots of mixing and matching of draconic features.

I'm of two opinions here. One: We already have Kobolds as dragon people.

So, no traditional true dragons in Monster Core? That's too sad, because I really like the unique appearances of true dragons in Pathfinder. For example, red and blue dragons in Pathfinder look clearly different from their D&D equivalents, and I really prefer the Pathfinder dragons to the D&D ones. Surely the category names like true dragons, chromatic dragons, or metallic dragons would be unusable because they are clearly created by Wizards of the Coast, but each true dragon can still be usable I presume? I remember there are adamantine dragons in D&D 4th but that didn't prevent Paizo from using adamantine dragons in Pathfinder Remaster, because aside from the name, most elements that comprise adamantine dragons in Pathfinder Remaster are purely created by Paizo I guess. So can I expect that the traditional true dragons would appear in later books (Monster Core 2 perhaps?)?

I think Paizo's lawyers advised that it isn't a good idea to play a game of "I'm not touching you" with Hasbro's IP. Therefore, filing the serial numbers off of the very D&D dragon types probably was never on the table.

I'm not sure what a "true" dragon is TBH. Since Paizo can't use the two sets of chromatic and metallic dragons anymore (because that idea belongs to someone else) they decided to make dragons less about "color" and more about "the kinds of magic that exist." So we get four sets of dragons, for the four traditions of magic, which are whatever colors they happen to be.

But I don't think Paizo is going to focus more on dragons than they did the previous decade or so. It's just that you're going to need to have some dragons in a game like this.

Battlezoo already has a dragon versatile heritage, and I don't think Paizo has an interest in covering that content. The only reason they are touching dragons at all is because they need to.

I hope they keep all the older dragons, making them more in line with how Mark wrote them up and perhaps new names I think would make most if not all of them vastly different to D&D dragons.
Chromatic dragons could easily just become more elemental focused while metallic dragons could be more social and then you can play up a chaotic natural type versus a more lawful and society focused type.

Also, whilst the Metallics and Chromaticsv aren't ac thing in the Monster Core (as sure, "Blue dragon" can't be copyrighted, "evil blue dragon which breathes a line of electricity, lives in the desert, has a smug personality, and it's a set of a specific five types of evil color based dragons" is a fair bit more specific), they're not getting ret con'd out the setting, it's just that it'll take more time to work out what to do with them.