Kavlor's page

I would really like to see Andoran lose, personally. Andoran is one of my least favorite parts of the setting, as I find it too positive and boring. Andoran under diabolical occupation? That's a whole other question, and that setting would be much, much more interesting. And overall, I'm a fan of the setting retaining its dark past and willingness to tackle dark themes, as it did in its early days.

I would say that the Cyclopes really do seem to be an option for players, unlike the Jotuns. Since the Cyclopes have been in the setting since the beginning, we know of at least three large populations of Cyclopes in the setting, with different cultures, traditions, etc. And in addition, the Cyclopes have their own magic, which can be implemented in the game, in the form of their natural ability to divination.

In reality it's quite simple. Pathfinder Kingmaker CRPG and Golarion lore.

How often does "there's a law against it" stop a PC from doing something though?

Like "characters trying to survive in a hostile place" is a pretty standard story in this sort of thing.

From my point of view, this is a serious enough obstacle, and one created specifically against players from Avistan, that I consider it right to get rid of it.

Kavlor wrote:

To be honest, I'm not a fan of Arcadia book. I mean, it could be good, but I'm not a fan of concept of almost fully-native America-analogue, cause I believe that history of colonization and formation of new cultures in colonized lands is interesting too. But if it came out, I would like to get getherer and more info about dog-folk and wyrwoods.

[...]

And about adventure paths, there a few things that I would like to see. For example AP that would denounce Segada Protocol in lore.

"I don't want an Arcadia book because I don't like that it's not repeating the story of foreign colonization" and "I want an AP about ending the restrictions on colonization by Fantasy Europeans empires in Fantasy America" are both wild to just say out loud. I'm very glad you're not making decisions for Pathfinder.

Go re-read any of a dozen "slaughter the natives and take their gold" fantasy books from the 80s and 90s, there's no shortage of those.

Yeah, I don't like that we have a law in the lore that makes it illegal for Avistan characters to be in most of northern Arcadia. I think it's a huge limiting factor for the freedom of the player characters. Call it what you will, but I still stand by it.

Also, like I said, the colonial history is still pretty interesting to me, and it could give us a lot of unique cultures in Arcadia. I don't like it when the world is presented in a simplistic and toothless way, and I wanted Paizo to be more bold and provocative in their writing. I want a New York equivalent. I want devil-worshipping conquistadors. I want a harpy kingdom in southern Arcadia with parrot-like feathers and a carnival like Brazil. I want a story about religious exiles from Avistan migrating to the New World, just like the Puritans did. And I believe it will be interesting.

Oh, so Tolkien was the one who made hobgoblins a type of goblin after all? It seems this wasn't a creation of Wizards of the Coast. And thus, it is entirely okay for Paizo to make hobgoblins related to goblins.

There is a funny detail connected with this. The thing is that the word "goblin" as well as the prefix "hob" existed in the English language before. However, Tolkien made one unique mistake that determined the entire appearance of the hobgoblins. The thing is that the prefix "hob" in English means the fact that this creature is smaller than normal. So Tolkien literally created his main creation "hobbits". However, in the case of "hobgoblin" Tolkien made a mistake by saying that hobgoblins are taller than ordinary goblins, although in his letters he noted that it should be the other way around. And thus, in all fantasy, hobgoblins in their modern form were formed as taller relatives of goblins.

I'd like a story set in Taldor that would focus on chariot racing, given how important it was in Byzantium, and also the opportunity to reference Ben-Hur, a classic of world cinema.

But any way, there is no real logical sence that Qadira have bigger population in canon, than Cheliax. It seems very strange and odd for me.

SNIP

This is generally a fairly adequate estimate, but I would note that this population is significantly underestimated due to the fact that most of the cities in the setting are abnormally small in population. It is even difficult for me to say what is the reason for this. Perhaps the problem is the large number of monsters, due to which only part of the territories are populated by people, which is a natural barrier to the formation of large cities. But seriously, compare the Inner Sea and Europe in terms of the number of cities with a population of over 100,000 people, the numbers will be completely incomparable.

In addition, we have a good map that we can use for our purposes in the Inner Sea basin - a first edition map that includes a scale. So we can quite easily calculate the population of rural areas based on this data. Moreover, if we wish, we can take a lower population density for some territories that are especially dangerous.

By the way, am I the only one who wonders why we have Duskwalkers and Samsarans in canon both? I mean, they are two very similar looking races, both of which fulfill a similar idea - to be mortal beings who are sent to reincarnation. The only difference between them is that the Samsarans do it all the time. I actually have a theory that they are actually one people, but just live of different continents.

Kavlor wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

SNIP

I would say that in medieval society 90% of population was a peasants. Also, due to size of Cheliax and fact that Golarion comparable with Earth, Cheliax population would 20-40 millions.

As I understand, it's a little more complicated than that. Even if it's true, none of the Inner Sea's nations exactly map to the feudal model it was developed for. I recall that 3.5 had something like it for kingdom building, but there's no reason for Paizo to be bound to it if they don't want to be.

More advanced forms of economic organization will only increase the potential population. In fact, there are not many ways to reduce the population of a territory equivalent to Southern Europe in terms of climate. And as far as I know, in the last few years there has not been a war that would kill 10% of the population, a large-scale epidemic or mass starvation.

The only thing that can lead to a country having a smaller population is the presence of powerful and dangerous monsters that the army and locals do not risk getting involved with.

So using the canonical figures of 300 thousand as the population of these territories is absolutely wrong. I would rather prefer an approximation of the population based on the known area of ​​the territory and known data on population density in certain periods of history.

SNIP

I would say that in medieval society 90% of population was a peasants. Also, due to size of Cheliax and fact that Golarion comparable with Earth, Cheliax population would 20-40 millions.

I would also like to point out that Casmaron should absolutely give us the ability to create harpies. We already have similar flying peoples, and it would be completely wrong to deprive us of such capabilities with harpies, especially considering that they are one of the first things that come to mind when we think of flying creatures in fantasy.

I still think we need Shifter class as class Archetype for Druids that would make them decent martials.

With Tar-Baphon to the north and Cheliax to the West that starts to put some major strain on The Shining Kingdoms and the southern Kingdoms of The Eye of Dread. How will Andoran work as a group of 'Plucky Rebels' rather than a nation? Will the Eagle Knights make some uncomfortable choices if it means defeating Cheliax? Maybe Nirmanthas and Oprak are able to bury the hatchet after Ironfang Invasion to stand up against a resurgent Cheliax, or will they be ground between the Lich and the evil empire? If Andoran falls, can Eutropia's Taldor and Kyonin, ravaged from their fight against Treerazer, pull themselves together from their recent troubles in time to push back the literal legions of hell?

I absolutely agree. The only thing that could compare to Andoran's victory in my opinion is if Cheliax literally became a copy of Germany after WWII, in a situation where Andoran and other parties to the conflict begin to cooperate with yesterday's bureaucrats of the regime simply because they need to somehow manage the lands. In exchange for the secrets of Asmodeus, Andoran provides a generous amnesty program for yesterday's devils and aristocrats. The country is divided into military occupation zones. A separate part of the country is made an independent state for halflings, evicting all humans from there. The underground of infernalists is extensive and present in all major cities of the country, organizing the evacuation of former supporters of the monarchy in Bloodcove.

This would be an interesting setting, and an extremely dark one, which I would gladly watch. But I doubt that we will ever show Andoran in this form.

In fact, my biggest hope is that Cheliax wins the war. Because I think, quite unironically, that would be a more interesting storyline than the standard victory of good in the form of Andoran.

Thought of another ancestry that might make sense in the Pathfinder setting. And what about the Selkie? A good choice for an aquatic race that doesn't lose on land.

I think we will have this sides:

Cheliax, Ravounel, Nidal, Isger, Katapesh goverment, Mzali, Shackles, Korvosa, Molthune, Oprak

vs

Andoran, Nimrathas, Katapesh Firebrands, Senghor, Vidrian, Nimrathans, Kraggodan, Five King Mountains

2) Aiuvarin should require that your ancestry is not Elf, and Dromaar should require that your base ancestry is not Orc. Because an Elf with 2 Elven parents or an Orc with 2 Orcish parents is just an Elf/Orc, respectively.

Actually, I don't quite agree. It allows you to play a character who only has a small portion of his bloodline that is not, say, elven. For example, a character who is 3/4 or 7/8 elf could be an elf with half-elf bloodline.

Rakshasa spawn already exist as the beastbrood subtype of tieflings, which should be able to function on nephilim.

Rakshasa are no longer Fiends, so Rakshasa Spawn can get treir own ancestry.

Some thoughts on who else could be in the playable races list:

Harpies - Let's be honest, they are basically the race we all think of when we think of flying people. And they would fit the theme of Casmaron perfectly. My main hope is that they will remain monogender. Especially since we already have the Surki.

Cyclops - Pathfinder has already done some work fleshing out the Cyclopes, and I could see an opportunity to give them their own flair in the setting. Especially given their innate talent for prophecy. A big ancestry intended for casters?

Fauns - The last of the folk from classical Greek mythology, but this time more closely related to the fairies.

Urmahlullu - Essentially the Wemics from Mesopotamian mythology. Haven't appeared in the Pathfinder universe, but let's be honest, I'd consider them a nice addition.

Fairy-Touched: I think we're missing a lineage like this that covers possible offspring from interbreeding with different varieties of fairies. Probably a Nephilim variety.

Garuda -- I think when it comes to Woodra, another type of flying ancestor would make a lot of sense for that region. Especially since they're already in the local mythology, and we know how much Pathfinder loves to plunder mythologies from around the world for playable races.

Rakshasa spawn -- I'm not really that excited about these, but I'm more interested in seeing how Paizo implements them. I liked how they handled the Oni, and now I want to see Rakshasa. And to be fair, I would like to see more demons, simply because I like the narrative of the war between the gods and titans at the dawn of creation, and the demons trying to turn humanity away from the worship of the gods in favor of the fallen titans.

For the gnomes, I would like to be able to play as the gnomes who survived the Bleaching. And perhaps something more aquatic-themed. Perhaps something inspired by turtles or crabs? Or, if I recall, there are myths in Korea that can be interpreted as merfolk whose lower body is not a fish, but an octopus. That could be an interesting option.

Well, my interest: Golden Road, Shining Kingdoms, Old Cheliax > Casmaron > other Avistan > Tian Xia > Garund > Arcadia.

I am very interested in what the society and cultures of the Padishah Empire might be like. For example, it could easily have a satrapy of civilized harpies.

Set wrote:

But I kind of feel the same way about the nations. There's fantasy Egypt and fantasy Persia and fantasy China, but where's the fantasy Poland or Ireland or Germany? Why just the 'exotic' (to a white guy...) places?

If you look closely at the Inner Sea Region, you will see that it's actually full of 'exotic' places / tropes to an American guy : Galt, Taldor, Irrisen, Lands of the Linnorm Kings ...

And in my personal opinion, in the case of Taldor, not enough was done to make it unique. I would have been happy if the characters from the Taldor aristocracy wore not the standard European dresses and uniforms, but something inspired by real Byzantine clothing.

On the other hand, I prefer to mostly ignore Irrisen's existence.

Kostchtchie was removed for the same reason Orcus was. Unlike Pazuzu or Baphomet (deities that also have a D&D legacy), Kostchtchie and Orcus's recognizable elements were too OGL mired to make it into the remastered non-OGL game. Jubilex too, but even more so, since he's 100% D&D.

Have you considered going back to the original Kostchtchie story from Russian fairy tales? After all, he could practically be called the first true lich, since he had a full-fledged phylactery and a complex way to destroy it. That would be a nice nod to Slavic mythology. After all, you already have Baba Yaga.

Personally, I am happy with these changes. I myself categorically did not like that the gods of Osirion are literally a complete adherence to the canons of Egyptian mythology, and not an attempt to create something alternative, based on real mythology. So I fully support the removal of these gods from the setting.

Kavlor wrote:

wildweasel wrote:

Just downloaded :)

How much juicy detail is there regarding the details of Gorum's death and its impact on the setting, as well as other events in Avistan and on other continents?

There is a 15 page or so Mythic Gazateer chapter, and it touches on Arcadia, Casmaron, Garund, and Tian Xia.

So, if I understand correctly, we finally have more information about the geography of Casmaron and Arcadia?

Just downloaded :)

How much juicy detail is there regarding the details of Gorum's death and its impact on the setting, as well as other events in Avistan and on other continents?

I just had an idea for a great sports-themed AP that easily turns into a political thriller.

If Taldor is an obvious analog of the Byzantine Empire, then it's easy to remember the most important sport in Byzantium. Chariot racing, which provoked urban riots of thousands in Constantinople.

So the AP on this topic starts with a relatively low-level story about the rivalry between sports teams and the dirty tricks of the opponents. But then things get much more interesting as details are revealed about the backers of our opponents and their plans to cause urban riots in Oppara and overthrow the ruler of the country.

When I was said that we can use wemic-analogue race in Pathfinder and especially in Casmaron, I was not joking. This is wikipedia page about this Mesomopamian creatures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urmahlullu

I have never heard of this adventure path. When was it announced? Does it take place in Azlant? Is it a mythic adventure path?

Gencon, on Azlant, 1-10 level, no myth.

Dungeon crawls also have one problem that prevents me from enjoying them. The thing is that most of the dungeon feels like a forced obstacle on the way to the final point, and does not involve the players in any way.

How much would it have changed if the group had simply teleported to the very bottom of the dungeon and killed the final boss, ignoring the minions on the way? I understand the limitations related to the level and power of the character, but let's ignore them.

Seven Dooms, as far as I know, managed to alleviate this problem somewhat. Each of the dungeon levels had a threat that could destroy Sandpoint, so it made sense for the players to participate in all of it. But most APs like this do not have this.

EDIT: That said, telling us "we don't like something" doesn't really help us build things you do like. It's much more helpful to give a few examples, like "Our group likes roleplaying with NPCs" or "Our group likes PCs who have mounts and do mounted combat" or the like, so that we know more.

Best for our table was Hell Rebels, War for the Crown and Strenght of Thousands.

In that case, I'll note that from the perspective of my DM and my fellow tablemates, we'll probably skip this AP. Dungeon crawls are probably one of the least interesting types of adventures for us. Nothing personal, but it's just not our thing.

I'm most looking forward to the Casmaron book, and I think there are three options for it:

1) Harpies. They would fit the antique theme of the region much better.
2) Cyclopes. We already have large races, and they could also have thematic bonuses related to prophecies.
3) Wemics. In real Mesopotamian mythology, there are creatures similar to centaurs, but with a part lion instead of a horse.

I don't care about Mordant Spire at all, but would be happy to see Azlant geographycal guide.

It's been a while since this thread was last updated, so I wanted to recap the progress of these predictions and what each story means.

Sky King Tomb: I think it has to do with the line "Great legacies reclaimed when they were thought lost", given the ending of this story.

Season of Ghosts: definitely "A humble village grows where there was nothing before", there are very few alternatives.

Seven Dooms of Sandpoint: no alternatives "An immense red bird rains fire on a small town"

Wardens of Wildwood: it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly what line is hinting at these events. Maybe "The return of great evils thought lost to time"?

Curtain Call: in the case of this story, I think the correct comparison would be "Beloved mortal entertainers make some deities laugh with delight, but others consume them and choke them with cruelty". Fits the operatic theme and direct involvement with the gods very well.

Triumph of the Tusk: It's hard to pin down given how little we know about these events. Maybe "Old gods fall and new gods rise in their place" or "Ultimate power within the grasp of almost countless hands" given the general events of the War of the Immortals that will be touched upon here?

Spore War: No guesswork here, it's definitely "A pale cataclysm ravages the lands, leaving corruption and tangled thorns in its wake".

Shades of Blood: Even given how little we know right now, this is an easy guess. "New lands rise from the ashes of ancient civilizations".

This leaves me with a few questions. Where do Rusthenge, Prey for Death, and the new Gravelands adventure fit into this paradigm? Anyone have any clues?

And of course, we still have a few phrases that I didn't connect to anything:

1) Two great powers declare war, and many neighbors have to pick sides
2) The sun destroyed
3) They see countless spirits shrieking in agony
4) A crowned phoenix with a peacock tail, whose return heralds vengeance upon the world

I'm most interested in events 1 and 4, to be honest. I like big wars because they have to change a lot (otherwise there's no point in them), and I also want to see Xandergul again. Oh, and the death of the Sun is interesting too. The only thing that worries me about this situation is that options 2 and 4 clearly involve high-level adventures, considering that we're unlikely to be in secondary roles against Xandergul, just as apocalyptic events like the destruction of the sun are likely to be at level 20 and possibly even with mythic rules.

I'll be honest - I'm not the biggest fan of this book. Some information would have been nice, but I would have appreciated a regional guide to Avistan much more.

6) Legislative introduction of equality between the inhabitants of the prefectures and provinces, providing them with equal protection and rights in accordance with imperial laws.

As far as I know, we had several times when it was planned to create an AP, but for one reason or another they were never implemented.

An example of this is the mention of the AP, which would have resolved the situation in Galt. Of course, in the end we managed to get the current state of affairs completed, albeit to a much smaller extent.

However, I have another question - what other stories were considered to be created in the setting, but in the end they were never created?

Do we have more information about lands outside the Inner Sea such as Droon or Iblydos? Also, do we have more information about The Wardens of the Wild?

CastleDour wrote:

I am so excited about this article on Norgorber! We may finally learn about his background as a mortal. I can never get enough of him!!! Thank you Paizo.

There comes the reveal of the three evil halflings behind the curtains of Norgorber.

This is heresy. Everyone knows that there are four halflings.

That gets EXCEPTIONALLY problematic because of the racist connotations IRL.

It is why they stepped to Aiuvarin (mixed elf ancestry) and Dromarr (mixed orc ancestry)

Putting 'Half' on something implies 'lesser' rather than 'better', and there's a whole section of society that leans into it.

I'm just using the same naming style that's traditional in fantasy. We historically have half-orcs, half-elves, and many other similar things that exist in different settings without original names. They are good, but far from necessary. So such naming is an established tradition, and not a political statement.

But Arodeni is good.

As it turns out, a massive privatization program (embracing both common land and state industries; textiles are explicitly mentioned) has gone through, and the whole country has been made a low-tax Special Economic Zone. Predictably this has led to massive appropriation of extensive assets by a few, including a nintey-nine year free-of-charge lease of large tracts of land around Baifen to Hao Jin.

I heard about the planned changes to Bachuan before release, and I had low expectations for this chapter from the very beginning. If this is indeed the case, as they say here, then Bachuan will likely become the region of the world that our active table will refuse to recognize as existing in the form in which the Paizo created it.

For us it will be a territory under the rule of the Yellow Turban Rebellion or the Red Turban Rebellion, without any connection with communism.

I note that in such a situation, Rahadoum can safely remind neighboring nations of the problems that following the will of the gods has led them to. And they could abandon this stupid practice, like the residents of Rahadoum. Because the gods can give orders to their priests, however, the nations of Golarion do not yet have the ability to call the gods to court so that they answer for all their crimes,

I think I would like to see half-human heritage.

From main folks of setting... Maybe some type of half-giants or other similar conception?

Another idea that came to me as I was thinking about how I could tell a story about Mwangi's jungle while changing it significantly and having significant effects on the setting. Such an AP would be more suitable for the end of the edition, and was created with the goal of changing the region, somewhat similar to Tyrant Grasp.

Topic: Mwangi, demons

Location: Mwangi Expanse

Background: The death of the current Gorilla King led to the opportunity to strike a major blow against the cultists in the region, capturing the altar, which was necessary for the ascension of a new leader. This was done through the joint work of the Kalijae elves and the Mualije orcs, thereby supporting the region's main opponents in chaos and discord. However, this was not enough, and a desire arose to destroy this artifact forever, eliminating the risk of the emergence of a new Gorilla King.

Book 1: We are a group of mercenaries who will have to accompany a small caravan with cargo from a small elven village to an elven settlement. As the adventure progresses, we eliminate several weak opponents and reach a settlement where we are told a revelation - our caravan was actually transporting an altar, using small numbers and the unknown for secret transportation. At the same time, a large detachment of orcs and elves distracted the charau-ka's attention, falling victim to their large-scale attack, and this detachment is moving after us. We need to get to Nine Walls as soon as possible, where we will have protection.

Book 2: Nine Walls have become a reliable defense, but an army of cultists besiege the settlement, while the orcs manage to hold back their onslaught. We are temporarily mobilized to help defend the settlement, to monitor the walls, and repel minor attacks. Eventually, the cultists will attempt a large-scale attack, which we will need to repel and defeat the leader of the attack, forcing them to retreat from the walls of the settlement.

Book 3: Unfortunately, due to the secrecy regime, Nine Walls never knows for what purpose the altar was supposed to be transported, so our next path lies in the main settlement of Kalijae. Unfortunately, along the way we learn that one of the elves themselves informed the cultists about the route of movement of the true detachment with the altar, and our task at the destination will be to search for a spy who is connected with demons and cultists.

Book 4: Now that we have managed to solve the problem of espionage in our ranks, we are informed about the true purpose for which the altar movement was started. The Alijae elves in the city of Nagisa report that they may have a way to permanently disable the totem. They want to use the crystal in the center of one of the complexes, which is connected to another Demon Lord, to destroy this altar with the forces of a warring deity. Our task is to descend into the depths of the temple of Gogunta to extract the necessary ingredients from there. However, due to our absence, we miss the attack on the city, and the altar disappears.

Book 5: A surprise attack on the city by the Bloodcove people allowed them to steal the altar, since the location of the altar in the city was a secret even to most of the elves, and this allowed the attackers to take it with little blood. However, we now need to go to Bloodcove and the Aspis Consortium headquarters in the region to find out the reasons for their involvement in this attack.

Book 6: Shosenbe used the Bloodcove mercenaries to acquire the totem for himself, offering them in exchange the huge amount of Mwangi relics he managed to obtain. Now the totem has been transported to Usaro, and preparations are being made there for the formation of a new chosen one of Angazhan. However, few people know Shosenbe's true plans to become the new demon lord. Luckily, the heroes are given advice on how they can try to prevent a full-fledged Demon Lord from appearing on the material plane. It is necessary to destroy the totem, which is the cornerstone of the ritual, using the previously obtained crystal.

Consequences: The consequences of destroying a totem are horrific in many ways. Since the stone was split right during the transfer of energy from the demon lord to the challenger, the huge amount of energy transferred from one plane of the universe to another created a stable hole. Usaro became the site of a stable rift leading to Outer Rifts, a new Worldwound in the center of this region. Moreover, Shosenbe survives despite the partial success of his plans to become a deity. He becomes a weak Demon Lord, attracting more cultists and demons to invade the region. On the other hand, Angazhan himself survived the ritual, although he was significantly weakened, and is now eager to destroy his enemy. And of course, Nantambu, Kalijae, Ekujae and Mualije must unite to contain the massive demon invasion.

I know that certain seasons of this game have led to significant changes in the world. The story arcs of the Elemental Lords and the Ruby Phoenix, as far as I know, originate there. However, I have never found any information about what many seasons have changed.

Can anyone help and give me a complete list of the changes each season has had in Golarion?

I would really like to see a hobgoblin as a iconic character. I'm actually a fan of hobgoblins, liking them much more than orcs. So a character like that would be a great addition for me.

Strictly speaking, you have never been a province. Restov has recognized you as an independent kingdom, but they are not the source of your power. In the River Kingdoms, states arise by right of the strong, which seizes some territory by defeating its previous owner, be it another kingdom, bandits, monsters or something else. You do not and never have needed to gain independence this way.

Also, if you think about it, even with this approach to the plot, you might still need to use the part of Chapter 9 that deals with Nyrissa and Briar.

I have some doubts that becoming the rulers of such a large state is a good idea. This will greatly shift the focus, and in some ways make early state creation insignificant, since it will only be a small part compared to the new territories.

My idea, which I can immediately propose in this situation, is to introduce Mivon into this conflict. Their troops will intend to help Restov, but the only way for them to the north runs through your territory. So you need to either agree to Restov's demands and let them pass, or enter into conflict with them at the request of the crown.