Flaxseed Lodge (PFS1)

Game Master Redelia

"Et tu, Herr Trey...?"

*sips arsenic tea with stiff, trembling hand, an expression of manic determination on his gaunt face...*

"Keep taking your 'medicine'; if you got the formula right then it might not kill you."

Imagining a party comprised solely of mummified alchemists now :D

Are there any Tier 9-11 adventures in which cold and/or nonlethal damage are among the more serious dangers (like an adventure where you have to fight a white dragon/Thuggee-style assassins/Irriseni Witches, survive exploring the Paraelemental Plane of Ice/a really tall mountain/a deep-sea trench, something like that)?

Asking for...reasons.

Seems to be a regular Starfinder occurrence.

Happy American Thanksgiving, everyone! I am grateful to have an awesome lodge and lots of cool people to play with. Love you all!

Happy American Thanksgiving, everyone! I am grateful to have an awesome lodge and lots of cool people to play with. Love you all!

Beginning mustering for the annual hunting of the Terrible Turkasque! Don't let its wings fool you, it can't really fly but it's gargantuan Gobble can deafen its foes and watch out for it's wicked Wattles!

But the prize! The prize! The most delicious drumsticks ever devoured by man and enough meat for a dozen men...or 3 American men on Thanksgiving.

If we have time, we'll also capture some dire Gourd Leshy's for purposes of pie, giant Gelatinous Cubes to mold.

If we have time, we'll also capture some dire Gourd Leshy's for purposes of pie, giant Gelatinous Cubes to mold.

They come as Gelatinous Cylinders around here.

One of my PFS game PbP players has gone AWOL and I could use some guidance. At a glance, it looks like Lady Ladile & Tyranius are our Venture Officers?

At a glance, it looks like Lady Ladile & Tyranius are our Venture Officers?

Yes indeed! Along with Numbat, Redelia, Michael Hallet, and Lysle/GM Valen. Let me shoot you a PM for the particulars and we'll get your situation sorted :)

One of my PFS game PbP players has gone AWOL and I could use some guidance. At a glance, it looks like Lady Ladile & Tyranius are our Venture Officers?

Indeed, we will do what we can to find you a backup GM to finish out your scenario.

In fact it is official now. Paizo finally processed my resignation and gave Tyranius his crown! Tyranius, just wait until Wednesday's email. It will be endless and awesome!

Hmm

I like endless and awesome. Can't wait!

Ack. It appears I gave you misinformation. Paizo still has the crown stuck to my head for the moment. :/

Does anyone have a jar of Universal Solvent around?

Hmm

Oh, I do!

Dash, grab, stumble, tumble... shatter!

Oops.

Uh, never mind.

I'd like to request the assistance of a Venture-Officer , VL or VC on resolving a matter that came up during my run of #03-01 The Frostfur Captives.

During Part 2 of 4, a player reached out to me saying he had forgotten he had already played that scenario, because of particular circumstances in his first playthrough. Namely, this was the first PFS game he ever played, seven years ago. After the game, he had personal items stolen out of his backpack during the event and quit PFS for some time.

Sounds like PFS was appealing enough to bring him back in after such an awful experience, but alas here I am in a conundrum and in need of a higher-up's ruling.

I'd like to request the assistance of a Venture-Officer , VL or VC on resolving a matter that came up during my run of #03-01 The Frostfur Captives.

During Part 2 of 4, a player reached out to me saying he had forgotten he had already played that scenario, because of particular circumstances in his first playthrough. Namely, this was the first PFS game he ever played, seven years ago. After the game, he had personal items stolen out of his backpack during the event and quit PFS for some time.

Sounds like PFS was appealing enough to bring him back in after such an awful experience, but alas here I am in a conundrum and in need of a higher-up's ruling.

If you need a VL or VC rather than VA for the issue, you can send any of the three of us a PM with the details. We'll probably discuss the matter as a team, so it doesn't matter much who you contact.

Our Venture Captain is Tyranius, and Mike Hallet and I are the Venture Lieutenants for Play by Post.

HMM can now come hang out on my ex-VC Pirate ship.

5* Island is our favorite port to resupply and we sail the PFS seas looting and plundering.

Hmm can now come hang out on my ex-VC Pirate ship.

5* Island is our favorite port to resupply and we sail the PFS seas looting and plundering.

PaizoCon South-Pacific is doing just that - sailing to a tropical island whilst plundering scenarios! OK some of us are current VC's, but we also have a bunch of other former VO's coming along :)

Off to dive the wrecks of Moreton Island with the con on the Carnival Splendor

I want to be on the ex-VC Pirate Ship and the aussie cruise! In my dreams I would have enough cash to make it to Australia! (I'm currently saving up for the Netherlands first.)

Yarr, it's ex-VC island for me!

Serving as a Venture Captain was one of the most meaningful things I did. But I am a firm believer in term limits to preserve sanity, and allow new ideas to percolate in the lodge.

:)

Hmm

Just opened the latest issue of my Starfinder AP subscription (Hive of Minds, Attack of the Swarm 5) and saw our own former (or at least soon-to-be-former) Venture Captain HMM’s article on Psychic Magic in the back! I’ll probably stay up too late tonight reading. Congratulations, HMM!

Dragged to appropriate thread from Recruitment

Damiar Apastron wrote:

And don't forget botting spoilers for combat! Everyone needs those!

No they don't. They just need to play.

The GM is there giving the group a whole world full of people after all. The least a player can do is do the thing they signed specifically up to do and play their own character.

Aside from serious real life interruptions of course, because life happens.

That's why everyone needs botting spoilers, for when life happens.

What TOZ said. Botting spoilers are a helpful thing to make real life disruptions less of a burden on your GM/other players.

I am always making use of my own Botting spoilers. I include the dice expressions so that I can just cut & paste common actions.

They are adventures, and very very often even in relatively simple combat encounters (the featureless 10' x 10' room with light coming from somewhere) there are a number of tactical considerations, that are further complicated by other party members actions, physical size, cover, reach, animal buddies, spells, alchemical items, etc.... Sure you can say "I shoot stuff with my bow" and put a little dice function together. But what if you are the cleric do you shoot, when someone is down to half their hp and looking at the average damage output of the enemy the last round figure there is a 33% chance of that character's death and a 40% chance of their incapacitation if you do not instead blow your highest level spell slot for a big cure spell? Or perhaps you should cast a group buff and hope that solves the problem, or throw a damage spell, or do something else like dragging your ally out of the line of fire? Do you want your GM (who is already pissed at you for not posting in a week) to make that call? You could literally write 3 novels worth of botting directions (which might change every level depending on what new abilities the PC acquires), plus again you are really putting the onus on your GM to try, and guess what your PC might actually do in a situation not covered by your "I hit 'em with my axe" or "perform a aria to inspire my comrades" directions. Maybe you are sneaking around, or need to take opponents alive, maybe there's a big fire in the building, maybe the PC is involved in a serious ceremony like a funeral or coronation, or a wedding, maybe there are philosophical or cultural issues with shooting everyone full of arrows or casting color spray in the king's throne room.

I have wizards who don't pack the same spells every adventure because they tailor their list to the mission briefing. I get putting down some basic ground rules on what a character will or won't do. I have a character who's botting directions are simply "Whatever you do, make sure it is LOUD." because, without getting too deep, that's about all I can say. I don't know what he does when the rescued djinn offers him a wish, or when he confronts the dragon in his lair, until he gets there and sees what's there to be seen.

If I just put [dice=mwk morningstar (power attack)]1d8+5[/ dice] [dice=damage]1d8+6[/ dice] is the GM supposed to hit everything with a morningstar when I'm not available? One, that's probably not what the character in question is going to do (or maybe he does and just doesn't use Power Attack all the time). Either way I don't want to leave that impression. Two, it's putting too much on the GM who is running the rest of the game world as it is to force them to think tactically for your PC, and then worry that they are doing it right. And three, it just seems a bit crazy to me to expect a character to even make a list of 25 common things they might run into, and expect that to somehow cover everything. A list 100 things long would still be inadequate. Worse, it seems like a waste of time to go through the motions of coming up with such a list for each of your PCs. If I'm suddenly not there to play due to hurricanes, floods, war, influenza, or my own untimely death I would hope the GM would just set my PC off to the side glossing over my character's absence as smoothly as possible. Absences are just a hazard of the format that you can't just look over at a person's seat and see that they are not there, like you can at a weekly sit down game.

The best possible botting directions would probably be something like "See what I did there for the last 50 posts? Do that." But again, I would not expect the GM to do that on my behalf.

Lastly, they are called adventure scenarios because the PCs are faced with unknowns. Otherwise, they would be called "routine scenarios". The fun of unknowns is that you don't exactly know what you are going to do until you are there. Now I've known some elven rangers in my time who shoot first--and repeatedly, and then ask questions later, and that's fine. Maybe they have gone through the scenario before with a different archer, or maybe that's all the player needs out of their game, but I like more role-play in my role-playing game. It is why I find them more interesting than most computer games--even though Pathfinder only devotes a page or three to the topic in their entire 500+ page core rule book.

In short, just show up when you can and play your own damn character. Your GM does it nearly every day. (Nearly.) ;)

And when you can't show up, have bot instructions for general actions so your GM doesn't have to guess or delay you indefinitely.

I started putting botting instructions in for my characters because nearly every GM I've played with has specifically asked for them from the get go. It doesn't require an intricate flow chart that accounts for every possible scenario to have an effective one, and those instructions are informed by who that character is. Besides, if the party is in combat and I'm unable to post for some reason, I would infinitely prefer my character to make a potentially suboptimal choice than to take no action whatsoever.

Botting instructions are not an autopilot for your GM so you don't have to play the game at all, and I'm not sure why you're implying they are. They're a pre-emptive tool to ensure the game doesn't grind to a halt if someone can't post for a while.

It certainly seems better to have some basic actions and description for when life eventually does intervene in playtime.

You say you worry about taking the right action but a bot instruction is better than them going into a coma in the middle of a fight and leaving their allies a person down.

And quite simply, there’s no reason not to have them AND do your best to participate. They are not incompatible standards, so it is a false dichotomy to say you should be posting rather than adding bot instructions.

As a player, I try to have a Bot Me spoiler populated, but there are certainly characters (as Most Interesting points out) for which this is pretty hard! When it's a non-combatant, I try to put play advice there more than dice expressions (my witch likes to debuff with Evil Eye/Misfortune, then go for a save-or-suck spell based on the weakest save identified with a Knowledge check). I can still spell out that much, and with the context of the roleplay up until then, it's usually not too hard for a GM to play my PC for a round if it's needed.

This is really only critical in combat, however. Out of combat, you're not really affected by action economy anymore, so having a PC spacing out isn't as critical.

That said, as a player I hate being asked to bot a fellow player. I prefer all botting to be done by a GM. If the GM isn't comfortable with it, I understand putting the PC on Delay until their player shows up again. I get it.

"You know who uses my botting spoiler the most?" Pip asks, brightly. "Me, that's who!"

Pip spins and shows off her shiny botting spoiler. "I'm Hmm's first PF2 character, and she went kind of nuts putting my botting spoiler together. It includes a few simple tactics, all my skill rolls, and my various attack rolls with or without inspire courage. This has made it easy for me to keep up with my game during what turned out to be a particularly stressful time. I still make fun posts around the botting text, but it makes it easier and quicker for me to make those posts. Perversely, having a botting spoiler means that people have to bot me less."

“Door do not have to be a problem that cause the whole group to wait for one person to post for each one,”

That said, as a player I hate being asked to bot a fellow player. I prefer all botting to be done by a GM. If the GM isn't comfortable with it, I understand putting the PC on Delay until their player shows up again. I get it.

One of my standard questions on my player questionnaire -- especially during specials -- is asking players if they feel comfortable botting other players. There are some situations where the player has taken a short leave right at an important plot point. If it is a special, I cannot wait for them. If it is not obvious from their persona how they would act, and it is plot-critical, I often ask if someone else can bot that moment because as a GM I know too much about what is going on. The other reason why I ask players to bot each other during specials is that I am sometimes doing 5-6 posts or more a day to keep the party moving at their 2-3 posts a day. It's often hard for me to do that and bot people. But I figure that people know what to expect when they sign up to do a Special with me. They know that I am going to be asking them to put on rocket boots for that period of time.

I think the key to botting always has to involve advance consent. (Which is why I do player questionnaires before the game starts.) My assumption is that everyone will have some period of time when they have to be absent -- including me. Thank goodness for backup GMs!

In non-time-pressured scenarios, delaying can work. Still after a while, botting may be the best tactic to just keep the story going. Most of the time, tactics are obvious. Fight the monster. Make the skill check. Cast message so the group can communicate. Then the player comes back, and gets to play their own character again.

Hmm

I ask that the other players bot each other in combat. I expect them to use reasonable judgement.

I also ask that people with reactions give me Botting instructions for when they are used. Thinks like the Swashbuckler parry/riposte can be done in a spoiler for the post, but some of the reroll powers work much better if it is ‘Force a GM reroll if there is a potential Crit.’ so that as GM I do not have to RetCon too much.

Botting instructions do not cover every possibility nor are they meant to.

Just opened the latest issue of my Starfinder AP subscription (Hive of Minds, Attack of the Swarm 5) and saw our own former (or at least soon-to-be-former) Venture Captain HMM’s article on Psychic Magic in the back! I’ll probably stay up too late tonight reading. Congratulations, HMM!

Oh thank you! I hope you really like it. I have a level one Mystic on ice right now waiting to see if my Shaper connection gets approved for Additional Resources. I really, really, want to play a character using the mystic connection that I wrote.

In my measly 1500+ posts as a GM, I've refined my thoughts on botting and can definitely agree with a lot of what TWMIGM is saying. The following blurb is found in my GM Profile and references botting and absences.

Botting in my games slightly varies between combat and non-combat. In combat it is pretty simple, no post in 24 hours and you will be put into delay. If it is direly necessary for the group to have you act, I will do my best to use your abilities or follow botting instructions, but only if it will help the situation. I am not going to play your character for you and being in delay means when you get back you can easily jump into the action.

If you give warning about missing time and if you have sufficient botting instructions on your profile, I have no issue with your fellow players handling botting duties for you.

TLDR: Absent? Delayed unless the group direly needs you.

____________________________________________________________________

As for me as a player, I do have botting instructions (for those situations when RL emergencies prevent posting). But I have found the higher level I get, the more difficult those become to write. I would also rather be delayed than botted so I can post when I get back.

In my profile, I use a dice roll format for all my skill checks, most of my combat rolls and have started adding saves. I do this not for botting, but for myself to save time. Having them like that also doubles for botting purposes.

That's a very valid way to approach things, Top. I think the key to all of this is that there really isn't one true method. Each GM should figure out what style is most important to them and go with it.

Of course this works best if it is announced before the game starts. Consent and communication are key with whatever plan you use to handle player absences.

I'm not a fan of botting spoilers, because the situation is usually far more complex than a spoiler can summarize. I tend to think that GM judgement, based on an observation of how a character has acted in the past, is better than a pre-written spoiler. If the GM is not comfortable botting a player (for example, if they're not familiar enough with that class), then another player doing it is a good option. (I've also on occasion as player arranged for another player at a table who was familiar with my character to bot me if needed, if I expected I might not always be able to post in a timely manner.)

I do feel strongly that delay is not an appropriate way to deal with the situation. I would rather a game halt waiting for a player than delay be used in such a way.

I think the best conclusion here is that this is something that should be in a GM's profile. If a particular solution to the problem bothers a player, they can try to avoid GMs that rely a lot on that solution.

I feel the need to mention, in case it wasn't clear enough, that the practice of having botting spoilers or whether to even bot absent players at all are decisions that we (the Online VOs) leave to the discretion of each individual GM. Requesting 'Bot Me' protocol has gotten much more common from what I can tell but I've also encountered plenty of GMs who do not bot missing players at all. Either route is valid. Just be sure to make your own policy on the matter clear from the outset, as has already been said, so there aren't any surprises for anyone later on.

I'll add to that with my personal stance. I'm not a fan of botting PCs unless I absolutely have to or I know the current situation is trivial. My main concern is if my botting of a PC causes them to suffer a serious setback, such as a permanent condition or death, there will always be the feeling that it might not have happened depending on how the GM played the character vs how the player would.

Basically, it sucks if a character dies because of GM botting; feels kind of cheap.

I think my attitude to botting can be summarised as "all of the above". It varies.

My preferred stance, if a bot is required, is for a player to make the call rather than me. That is because I have a lot of knowledge than can consciously or not, sway what I think should happen. Also, I often am quite busy, and botting another player just takes time which I don't always have.

Thus my second option is often to delay a player. If the group is in a really tight spot, this is not a valid tactic. In reality this often takes the form of "we are moving forward, but you can act twice next round".

All very good points!

I'll add my little bit of...*Digs around in his pocket for 2 cents* "Ah there it is."

While World's Most Interesting GM summarizes that there is indeed an entire book of situations you could create Bot situations for. Nearly the only time I use Bot tactics for a missing player is during combat situations and they disappear for a short duration. This helps with keeping PbP games on the right tracks. This is the case since one person not posting could essentially hold up the entire game for 3-4 days before they return. By that point the combat should have essentially been over. It is good to bot a person to keep the game going.

Outside of combat I generally just delay / ignore said PC until they return as another PC will generally continue to scout ahead, roleplay out the diplomacy conversation. The only time I pick them up outside of combat is if they happen to be the only character that can pick locks or disable traps. (Though that is very rare)

While yes, you have made a commitment towards that game, unexpected life situations do happen here and there and the botting stance / or even your GM looking over your character sheet and choosing the best course of action that will help the group can help your fellow players and table of not being inconvenienced.

So if you are going to be gone, even if it is for a day, as a player or even as a GM please don't be afraid to shoot a message to your table to let them know so that the fun times can continue smoothly.

Communication is Key! Especially with how easily stuff can be misinterpreted over text or even lost in translation.

-Tyranius

I prefer botting players (using botting instructions they provide or based on previous actions, as appropriate) to putting them in delay when I GM. Encounter balance math is often based on the PCs having an action-economy advantage due to their superior numbers. When you delay a PC rather than botting them, you are increasing the ratio of enemy actions to PC actions, which can have dire consequences in some cases.

I do think that botting, by GM or another player, will vary from game to game and group to group.

Yes, ideally everyone is present every day to keep the game moving on track. My experience indicates that is rarely so and sometimes, not always, botting is indicated.

Where it does no harm and I think a player may be back before the combat round is over then I may delay them, otherwise I will bot or ask for a volunteer to bot them.

This is made easier with clear botting instructions including dice roll expressions, plus following how that character has been acting until that point.

Another thing that helps is when the group has Standard Operating Procedures for things like doors. That way if a player is delayed, the group does not lose the character's expertise, nor is the game greatly delayed.

As others have said, as a player, I find having botting instructions makes my life easier to cut and paste, especially when looking at multiple saves/actions in a single post.

What I really like: As a community we can have a civil conversation, learning from each other and appreciating that differing opinions are valid. :-)

That is why if I do delay, I sometimes let a character act twice the next round.

I've also dropped down to four players for individual encounters sometimes if I know that someone will be busy, and have them sit out the fight or shout encouragement from the sidelines even if they come back.

Hello, A GM running Veteran's Vault (for gameday VIII) has stopped posting. They have not posted since November 26, exactly one week ago. They did not indicate that they would not post.

I don't know if this is too early to inform you of this inactivity, but If it is deemed inactive, here is a link to the game.

https://paizo.com/campaigns/v5748p75ivkp7/discussion&page=last

Hello, A GM running Veteran's Vault (for gameday VIII) has stopped posting. They have not posted since November 26, exactly one week ago. They did not indicate that they would not post.

I don't know if this is too early to inform you of this inactivity, but If it is deemed inactive, here is a link to the game.

https://paizo.com/campaigns/v5748p75ivkp7/discussion&page=last

** spoiler omitted **

Generally if the GM is gone for a week that is a good time to begin asking around.

I'll help you guys out and keep you running. Looks like you are about halfway through the scenario.

Tusk the Half-Orc wrote:

Just opened the latest issue of my Starfinder AP subscription (Hive of Minds, Attack of the Swarm 5) and saw our own former (or at least soon-to-be-former) Venture Captain HMM’s article on Psychic Magic in the back! I’ll probably stay up too late tonight reading. Congratulations, HMM!

Oh thank you! I hope you really like it. I have a level one Mystic on ice right now waiting to see if my Shaper connection gets approved for Additional Resources. I really, really, want to play a character using the mystic connection that I wrote.

I really did! The Shaper connection is a lot of fun, and I can see a number of different ways for players to flavor its abilities for different characters. I was also happy to see adaptations of so many Psychic spells from Occult Adventures available for the Witchwarper, which is likely to be the next character I build.

Further to the above discussion about botting, I would appreciate some advice.

I have 4 players in a PFS pbp game. Two are still active. One has not posted for about a week, the other has not posted for about a month (he made mention of a health scare about a week before he stopped posting).

I have been botting both to keep things moving because one of the active players needs his character to be available come January.

We are in the last battle of the AP. The BBEG has just been killed (buffed smiting paladin), but the two AFK players are still due to make a high DC save vs a mass suffocation spell.

Should I keep botting them and roll their saves so that we can finish the adventure one way or the other, or wait for one or two of the AFK players to return?

Tyranius this is the game that I PMed you about previously.

Further to the above discussion about botting, I would appreciate some advice.

I have 4 players in a PFS pbp game. Two are still active. One has not posted for about a week, the other has not posted for about a month (he made mention of a health scare about a week before he stopped posting).

I have been botting both to keep things moving because one of the active players needs his character to be available come January.

We are in the last battle of the AP. The BBEG has just been killed (buffed smiting paladin), but the two AFK players are still due to make a high DC save vs a mass suffocation spell.

I'll send you a PM I'm one of two. :)

Should I keep botting them and roll their saves so that we can finish the adventure one way or the other, or wait for one or two of the AFK players to return?

In general, rolling saves for the players isn't the same discussion as Botting. As a GM and a player, I always want the GM to roll mass-party saves in response to a bad guy's spell. Everything slows down far too much otherwise.

If the spell is serious enough to think a reroll may be wanted, then the GM can halt progress and ask if anyone wants to reroll the save. If the consequences aren't life threatening or dire, I just move on without offering the reroll.

I really did! The Shaper connection is a lot of fun, and I can see a number of different ways for players to flavor its abilities for different characters. I was also happy to see adaptations of so many Psychic spells from Occult Adventures available for the Witchwarper, which is likely to be the next character I build.

Glad to hear it. The adaptions were a Paizo request -- they wanted me to revisit a number of the Occult Adventures spells. It was challenging because some of them were very complex and multi-level, and had some abilities that just did not make sense in Starfinder. So I simplified them and figured out which levels had actual oomph in Statfinder. I am so happy that I decided to convert for the Witchwarper too. It's nice to be the first expansion of their spell list.

Hmm

Look who's gotten big time! You're not even asking Paizo to give you work, they're asking you to do work for them!

I'd roll a save vs. jealousy, but the DC's so high I'd never make it, anyway.

Sent you another PM Aram Zey!

Look who's gotten big time!

I never had any doubt ;)

Look who's gotten big time!

'Gotten'? C'mon, who are we kidding, HMM has be huge for years.

Sorry...H U G E !