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>looking for new class
>ask a Paizo developer if Animist is a new class or a rehash of the Shaman
>she doesn't undersand >|pull out PF1 Shaman class and explain its core features
>she laughs and says "it's a new class sir"
>play animist
>it's a Shaman rehash
Could you share the Animist mechanics with us so that we too can see how much of a rehash it is ?
While the Animist imo does feel like its coming at it from different directions. The shaman did also have a whole main spirtual being and versatile spirits thing you swap out, onesthat even gave a spontaneous spell slot for what was usually a prepared caster
I am excited to see how the Animist functions, and i'm sure once we see the playtest class it will stand on its own terms. From what we've seen so far it feels like it will be its own thing.
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Could you share the Animist mechanics with us so that we too can see how much of a rehash it is ?
Oh, be kind. They have to get their griping in now, before harsh reality demolishes their dreams. Let them have this time.
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The Animist is doing nothing but spirits. It’s definitely the “shaman” of 2e.We'll see. If it gets "do diplomacy with random spirits" feats, then I'll agree with you. If not, I think there's still space in the lore for another Shaman class, and there's definitely still space to find interesting ways to build them in the rules.
For the record? @keftiu, This is me acknowledging that you were right. I checked out the feat list, and they are totally New Shaman.
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Between some of the specific flavor on the Exemplar playtest and the note in the introduction that there's mythic rules coming in War of Immortals, I feel very comfortable locking in: we will see Iblydos within six months of that book coming out.
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This may be a bit unlikely, but I distinctly remember someone mentioning sometime that they'd like to do an AP which would release the Bound Prince. Perhaps with the new Mythic rules eventually coming, we could see some kind of adventure through Abaddon, fighting the Four Horsemen and eventually, accidentally or otherwise, releasing the big bad. Or that could just be me being way too hopeful for a big Daemon AP.
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Between some of the specific flavor on the Exemplar playtest and the note in the introduction that there's mythic rules coming in War of Immortals, I feel very comfortable locking in: we will see Iblydos within six months of that book coming out.
Howl of the Wild is setting us up very nicely for Iblydos too.
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Between some of the specific flavor on the Exemplar playtest and the note in the introduction that there's mythic rules coming in War of Immortals, I feel very comfortable locking in: we will see Iblydos within six months of that book coming out.Howl of the Wild is setting us up very nicely for Iblydos too.
Precisely. I think 2024 being the year all the pieces to play a mythic Centaur Exemplary come out at once can't be a coincidence.
Is this "War of the Immortals" one of the two new Tian Xia books Paizo's been telling us are coming?
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Is this "War of the Immortals" one of the two new Tian Xia books Paizo's been telling us are coming?
No. This is a rulebook. Neither of those is a rulebook. Additionally, neither of them have any classes in them.
Hm.
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Is this "War of the Immortals" one of the two new Tian Xia books Paizo's been telling us are coming?No. This is a rulebook. Neither of those is a rulebook. Additionally, neither of them have any classes in them.
We also have known the name of the two Tian Xia books for a while now. "Lost Omens: Tian Xia World Guide" and "Lost Omens: Tian Xia Character Guide". Both of which got delayed due to the Remaster books forcing their way into the schedule.
They still don't have their store pages up yet, so no idea when they will come out. Hopefully we'll find out soon!
Ah, right. I had forgotten those names.
It was stated this had various ways to play an immortal right? So there's a halfway decent chance of getting to finally play an outsider/outer planes creature?Is this "War of the Immortals" one of the two new Tian Xia books Paizo's been telling us are coming?No. This is a rulebook. Neither of those is a rulebook. Additionally, neither of them have any classes in them.
As a nephilim with one of the new immortality feats, sure.
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This may be a bit unlikely, but I distinctly remember someone mentioning sometime that they'd like to do an AP which would release the Bound Prince. Perhaps with the new Mythic rules eventually coming, we could see some kind of adventure through Abaddon, fighting the Four Horsemen and eventually, accidentally or otherwise, releasing the big bad. Or that could just be me being way too hopeful for a big Daemon AP.
My BF and I were just talking about this. It's been one of our hopes for an AP for a while.
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You're onto something here methinks. New Rare class has got to be the fabled and mystifying Super Commoner. Comes with subclasses in all major forms of fantasy villager profession, including Farmer, Weaver, Baker, and Smith. This is what the hints were pointing to all along!There will be a lot of stuff about this story coming from the Narrative team, never fear, but we're quite a ways out from announcing anything more about the details. There's still PLENTY of time for folks to get in their predictions and guesses.Im guessing the town artisan class. I'm ready to to roll a baker!
Was looking through some of my old posts for a thing and remembered this one, to file under "Guesses That Weren't Right But Aren't Exactly Wrong, Either"
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Happy Calgary Pride people!
I will..not be joining play tests this weekend. Also I was terribly wrong about one of the new animist class being Arcadian.
You win some some you lose some. Oh well. Better to score well in other areas in life heh.
Damn tho am I’m do’in that heh.
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So, Michael Sayre had some more interesting stuff to say lately, on a different thread.
Of the aforementioned classes, the kineticist is likely the one most able to specialize into a theme, since it gives up tradition access entirely. Future classes and options could likely explore either direction: limiting the number or versatility of slots, or forgoing slots. A "necromancer" class might make more sense with no slots at all, and instead something similar to divine font but for animate dead spells, or it could have limited slots, or a bespoke list. The problem with a bespoke list is generally that the class stagnates. The list needs to be manually added to with each new book or it simply fails to grow with the game, a solution that the spell traditions in PF2 were designed to resolve. So that kind of "return to form" might be less appealing for a class and make more sense for an archetype.
A "kineticist-style" framework requires massively more work and page count than a standard class, so it would generally be incompatible with another class being printed in the same year, and the book the class it appears in becomes more reliant on that one class being popular enough to make the book profitable. A necromancer *might* be a pretty big gamble for that type of content. And that holds true of other concepts, as well. The more a class wants to be magical and the less it wants to use the traditions, the more essential it becomes that the class be popular, sustainable, and tied to a broad and accessible enough theme that the book sells to a wide enough audience to justify the expense of making it. Figuring out what goes into the game, how it goes into the game, and when it goes in is a complex tree of decisions that involve listening to the communities who support the game, studying the sales data for the products related to the game, and doing a little bit of "tea reading" that can really only come from extensive experience making and selling TTRPG products.
and
Three encounters is basically the assumed baseline, which is why 3 is the default number of spells per level that core casters cap out at. You're generally assumed to be having about 3 encounters per day and using 1 top-rank slot per encounter, supplemented by some combination of cantrips, focus spells, consumables, limited-use non-consumables, lower level slots, etc. (exactly what level you are determines what that general assumption might be, since obviously you don't have lower-rank spells that aren't cantrips at 1st level.)
So...
- Any kineticist-style class is going to have to have enough broad-based appeal to basically carry the book its in by itself. From everything I've seen, Kineticist absolutely had that, but I'm not seeing anything else that had that "every thread that mentions Kineticists suddenly turns into an argument about the Kineticist" degree of interest from the playerbase. Good to know. We might see some sort of "kineticist light" class - like a necromancer martial hybrid that had about one element worth of kineticist-like powers. I'm guessing that we won't see any more one-class books, though.- "grow with the game" is seen as something that classes should do. By extension, my initial idea that the kineticist was basically done and we weren't going to get more impulses for it is probably false, especially because that model was *not* called out as being difficult to grow in that way.
- in general, the vlue of slots vs at-wills and encounter powers is balanced around the assumption of having about three meaningful encounters per day. Well, okay. Good to know.
The connection between number of encounters per day and number of spell slots never occurred to me. Interesting!
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I’m veeeeery surprised we still don’t know what AP is coming in April 2024. We normally would have found out months ago.
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I’m veeeeery surprised we still don’t know what AP is coming in April 2024. We normally would have found out months ago.
It has to do with the War of the Immortals stuff right? I think they're trying to hold all the cards RE "what's that about" close to the vest.
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I’m veeeeery surprised we still don’t know what AP is coming in April 2024. We normally would have found out months ago.It has to do with the War of the Immortals stuff right? I think they're trying to hold all the cards RE "what's that about" close to the vest.
It'll be very funny if all our theorycrafting ends with a store page for something essentially titled HOLY COW [god name]'S FREAKING DEAD.
Creative Director
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We used to announce a year's worth of Adventure Paths at Gen Con. That got those titles some hype that day, but by the time the actual releases came along, people were more interested in a year ahead.
We've been trying to spread out our announcements as a result recently, so that each Adventure Path gets time to glow and excite and drum up interest. That means spreading things out over the year, and shouldn't be interpreted as us trying to keep our cards close.
Especially now that we're doing more Adventure Paths a year since we've shifted to shorter lengths; that makes announcing up to 4 Adventure Paths even trickier (and even less desirable) to do all at once. Also especially when we want to try to avoid being overshadowed or overshadowing announcements in other lines.
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Fair enough. It makes sense.
And as for the speculation: the #201 AP won't be directly related to War of Immortals. That said, this is going to be a huge Event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get something that's going to somehow be significant when the end of the year comes around.
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Fair enough. It makes sense.
And as for the speculation: the #201 AP won't be directly related to War of Immortals. That said, this is going to be a huge Event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get something that's going to somehow be significant when the end of the year comes around.
Made me think of this post which IMO gives several hints not yet decyphered :
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.
Fair enough. It makes sense.
And as for the speculation: the #201 AP won't be directly related to War of Immortals. That said, this is going to be a huge Event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get something that's going to somehow be significant when the end of the year comes around.
Made me think of this post which IMO gives several hints not yet decyphered :
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.
My gut tells me he's referring to Mahja Firehair, who's gearing up to fight a god and take his or her place.
...and now that I say that, I remember who she worships. I really don't want Sarenrae to be the God who bites it, but if one of her worshipers sets the whole thing in motion... I can't say it doesn't work narratively.
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Fair enough. It makes sense.
And as for the speculation: the #201 AP won't be directly related to War of Immortals. That said, this is going to be a huge Event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get something that's going to somehow be significant when the end of the year comes around.
Made me think of this post which IMO gives several hints not yet decyphered :
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.My gut tells me he's referring to Mahja Firehair, who's gearing up to fight a god and take his or her place.
...and now that I say that, I remember who she worships. I really don't want Sarenrae to be the God who bites it, but if one of her worshipers sets the whole thing in motion... I can't say it doesn't work narratively.
It was clarified that the target is a deity and not necessarily Mahja's deity.
It was clarified that the target is a deity and not necessarily Mahja's deity.Fair enough. It makes sense.
And as for the speculation: the #201 AP won't be directly related to War of Immortals. That said, this is going to be a huge Event. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we get something that's going to somehow be significant when the end of the year comes around.
Made me think of this post which IMO gives several hints not yet decyphered :
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.My gut tells me he's referring to Mahja Firehair, who's gearing up to fight a god and take his or her place.
...and now that I say that, I remember who she worships. I really don't want Sarenrae to be the God who bites it, but if one of her worshipers sets the whole thing in motion... I can't say it doesn't work narratively.
Indeed it was. I was referring to the ways in which something like this can snowball into something big.
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So...
A little while back, there was a blog post recapping a livestream, and it had some really interestign thigns both stated and implied about the War fo Immortals (short answer: Arazni's the one whos' ascending to the 20). I was realizing that we now have enough information to start another roudn of speculations on where things might be trending next, using the whole "what bricks do you have" technique, and whatnot.
- We're going to have Exemplars.
- We're going to have Animists.
- We're going to have Mythic.
- HotW is a thing, and (as far as I'm aware) we haven't yet seen anything that it's laying bricks for.
- We've had LO books for Firebrands and Knights of Lastwall relatively recently, and we haven't seen all that much that they were laying bricks for either... though if you look close, it looks like both of them have intensely motivated sub-organizations that are fairly heavily Arazni-themed (The Last Breath and the Crimson Reclaimers).
So, on that...? My thoughts:
Between Mythic, Exemplars, and the ancestries out of HotW, I don't think Iblydos has any bricks left to lay. Vudra is pretty close to where it needs to be too. The only thing that I'm aware of that they'd want would be the Book of Aberrations - probably coming out in the same tranche with them. Qadira would probably want a nice deep-dive on divinities... and that's exactly what LO: Divine mysteries is. Maybe something about trade and mercantile conflict? Regardless, Casmaron in general has been getting bricks for a while now, and it's Real Close.
From looking at her initial core of worshippers, Arazni is shaping up to be a very proactive deity, and (as far as we can tell) she has a group of followers who are actively fighting against the Whispering Tyrant right now. It also occurs to me that the Whispering Tyrant himself qualifies as an Immortal... which suggests that Arazni is going to be giving him some Real Bad Days. Given that at the end of this she's cranking up a power level rather than down, it's pretty sure that she isn't losing that fight. So... there's a good chance that there will be a massive undefined space in Ustalav to fill in.
From an enthusiasm perspective, I'm thinking that Arcadia and Casmaron (especially Vudra) are going to be the big enthusiasm generators. We were originally thinking about Saga Lands as a pathway to Arcadia - givign Paizo a bit of lower-intensity time to recharge and also bring out New Shaman... but it looks like the War of Immortals storyline is basically doing that instead. I'm not sure that Saga lands are really needed at this point. I mean, we'll want them eventually, but what's going on there that would drive them as a priority? At this point, why would they use that as a jumping-off point for Arcadia, rather than just hopping over directly?
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- HotW is a thing, and (as far as I'm aware) we haven't yet seen anything that it's laying bricks for.
Not to take away from your larger post, but to respond to this directly, the Wardens of the Wildwood AP, coming out in between Sandpoint and War of the Immortals, will presumably utilize at least some of HotW.
https://paizo.com/products/btq02ev4/discuss?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-201-P actbreaker#tabs
Edit: That said, no reason to assume that is the only thing it is laying bricks for. Might be, but also might not be.
Edit edit: Aaron's post speculating that players will use Howl for this AP
- HotW is a thing, and (as far as I'm aware) we haven't yet seen anything that it's laying bricks for.Not to take away from your larger post, but to respond to this directly, the Wardens of the Wildwood AP, coming out in between Sandpoint and War of the Immortals, will presumably utilize at least some of HotW.
...and now I am aware of more things! Good to know.
Oh, and of course there's also the "We have some aquatic ancestries now, we have the Firebrands, clearly it's time for some sort of high seas and/or pirate-themed adventure, right?" brickset that might lead to something, though that one's been mentioned before. I suppose that if Besmara gets a bit of attention in Divine Mysteries that could be a bit of a brick there, too. Bit of an if, though.
Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.
Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.Even you know ORC is compatible?
But gap reminder is needed for it.
Not picking up what you're putting down I'm afraid.
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Not picking up what you're putting down I'm afraid.Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.Even you know ORC is compatible?
But gap reminder is needed for it.
Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"
It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.
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Between Mythic, Exemplars, and the ancestries out of HotW, I don't think Iblydos has any bricks left to lay. Vudra is pretty close to where it needs to be too. The only thing that I'm aware of that they'd want would be the Book of Aberrations - probably coming out in the same tranche with them. Qadira would probably want a nice deep-dive on divinities... and that's exactly what LO: Divine mysteries is. Maybe something about trade and mercantile conflict? Regardless, Casmaron in general has been getting bricks for a while now, and it's Real Close.
Note: Whilst we might be able to get a Lost Omens book on specifically Quadira, Vudra, or Iblydos, Casmaron was stated by Erik Mona to not have enough stuff worked out to have a World Guide for, with Erik Mona still just trying to compile the info for what is known on it, which is something that is required before a Casmaron book can even begin being considered
That said that message also included the following section:As I said above, this project kicked into high gear for a short piece I wrote for a book that will be coming out in 2024, and there will be a substantial use for it in 2025, about which I am sure you will be hearing a great deal in short oder. :)
I'm going to guess the "short piece in a 2024 book" is going to be a section of Ibydos in War of Immortals, like how BotD and GnG both included a little section where they had a one page summary of various nations with lots of undead/tech, though in this cast presumably on Mythic / Immortal people. I'll leave it up to the other people here to speculate what the 2025 book will be though.
EDIT: Just realized I forgot to link the thread!
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42d3b&page=2?So-any-interest-in-Casmaron#8 3
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Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"
It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.
That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...
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That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...
Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"
It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.
I recall there was a push for, if we get a ""tech guide"", for it to be a multiple time periods support thing instead of just a gear list basically.
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That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...
Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"
It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.
I mean, there was a Society special about jumping between the two fairly recently, so it's not completely off the table officially...
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Between Mythic, Exemplars, and the ancestries out of HotW, I don't think Iblydos has any bricks left to lay. Vudra is pretty close to where it needs to be too. The only thing that I'm aware of that they'd want would be the Book of Aberrations - probably coming out in the same tranche with them. Qadira would probably want a nice deep-dive on divinities... and that's exactly what LO: Divine mysteries is. Maybe something about trade and mercantile conflict? Regardless, Casmaron in general has been getting bricks for a while now, and it's Real Close.Note: Whilst we might be able to get a Lost Omens book on specifically Quadira, Vudra, or Iblydos, Casmaron was stated by Erik Mona to not have enough stuff worked out to have a World Guide for, with Erik Mona still just trying to compile the info for what is known on it, which is something that is required before a Casmaron book can even begin being considered
That said that message also included the following section:
As I said above, this project kicked into high gear for a short piece I wrote for a book that will be coming out in 2024, and there will be a substantial use for it in 2025, about which I am sure you will be hearing a great deal in short oder. :)I'm going to guess the "short piece in a 2024 book" is going to be a section of Ibydos in War of Immortals, like how BotD and GnG both included a little section where they had a one page summary of various nations with lots of undead/tech, though in this cast presumably on Mythic / Immortal people. I'll leave it up to the other people here to speculate what the 2025 book will be though.
EDIT: Just realized I forgot to link the thread!
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42d3b&page=2?So-any-interest-in-Casmaron#8 3
Mythic AP in Casmaron sounds like it would fit with the 2025 hint.
Okay, so we have official word that Casmaron is being slowly assembled, and while it's absolutely intended at some point, that point will Not Be Soon. So... if I'm understanding how these things work, that means it's definitely not going to hit in 2025. Realistically, that also likely means that we wont' be seeing an LO: Vudra book in that timeframe. Not only is it a bit more zoomed-in than the other geography books have been, but they're going to want to nail down the Casmaron ma and its various implications before they start putting a lot of work into its close neighbors.
So... where does that leave us?
Okay, so I'm late to the stage here, and I'm still trying to wrap my brain around Golarion geography. I'm thinking, though... Eye of Dread? If the rise of Arazni goes down like I kind of expect it to, there's a good chance that Tar-Baphon mostly stops being a thing somewhere during the War of Immortals, and that's going to cause enough churn in that area to call for an LO book about the results.
I think that Broken Lands, and an associated return to Numeria, are going to be required before we really go offworld in any meaningful way. Even so, I don't expect them soon. Better to let SF2 launch in its own space first, and then see what useful stuff you can poach from that.
For the Saga Lands... I'm not going to say that it can't happen, but I'm just not seeing a particularly strong reason to push it at the moment.
...and then, of course, there's Arcadia. That's an interesting one, but... I think there's not enough bricks. In particular, we haven't had the aquatic adventures book. That's one that's had a fair number of bricks laid for it, but I feel like any real effort to expand into a LO: Arcadia is going to want to have a rulebook on how to do things like sail a ship first.
So... I suppose that my guesses for 2025 are either revisiting the lands lately defined by the presence of the Whispering Tyrant (assuming that the War of Immortals removes that presence as a factor) or something covering paces like the High Seas, the Shackles, and so forth. Basically, I'm expecting either the Eye of Dread or the Eye of Abendego.