D3stro 2119's page

If we do go to Casmaron, which region would we want to visit first? If we get 2e Mythic, a visit to Ibyldos is suddenly very possible.

Qadira is the obvious choice, since we already have a setting book for that place. But actually doing something in the Padishah areas would be really cool.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Wrong thread?

Oof, misread the title.

Then, I really want to see more APs that emphasize different time periods (ie the stone age one, and thus maybe a more "high scifi" one), or "interworld adventures". That is, the AP doesn't need them to be the topic of the whole AP, but just including them.

What would you want from a Stone Age AP that wasn’t done in Quest for the Frozen Flame? I’m super curious.

Well this is just an example but Frozen Flame takes place in a ice age milieu, which sort of limits things. Like maybe some kind of "Lost/Savage World" setting might be cool, with Neolithic/Bronze Age themes.

However, a specific big want is a Casmaron AP, since afaik we have gotten approximately zero adventures in this area, and the place seems too important to ignore.

Wrong thread?

Oof, misread the title.

Then, I really want to see more APs that emphasize different time periods (ie the stone age one, and thus maybe a more "high scifi" one), or "interworld adventures". That is, the AP doesn't need them to be the topic of the whole AP, but just including them.

Most of my base problems come from the system itself, but I suppose that is a different topic.

Specifically, I want to see more guns and tech (including magitech) outside of the "theme park zones" (ie not just "more Numeria" or "more Alkenstar"). I would want to see guns being "core handbook weapons" Also, implementing at least a late 19th/early 20th century level of guns and such would not be a problem for me, considering it would clear up a lot of problems with needing to compensate for a inherently bad weapon (like in 1e) and allow for more options and possibilities.

And on the topic of "more tech" I don't necessarily mean "more Numeria," I mean maybe more "Golarion setting" tech as well (and not just "steampunk" which is overused at this point).

One thing I'm getting from this is that you're presumably unaware of is that while it's a bit of a spoiler, some planets outside Golarion have been explored in APs for 2e and have official setting gazeteers. They're brief and not of the scale you'd see in an official 2e book on the planet or even Golarion's solar system as a whole, but they exist and you don't mention them once here.

** spoiler omitted **

I actually have read that, and actually kind of mentioned some of what I saw in that book in this post (even if I was reticent to actually explicitly say it).

Btw I have do not have access to Gatewalkers. Maybe I will get that.

Note that this post is meant not only to be a more agnostic take on the place (considering we still have very little info it) but also to expand it.

So this is my first attempt at writing up alternate/more comprehensive takes on the different worlds in the "Golarion solar system". Specifically, this is my take on Akiton, in which I hopefully retain the thematic elements that made the place fun while also expanding the possibilities available in the place.

Basic Overview
In terms of basic "planetary stats", Akiton is notably smaller than Golarion. The differences resulting from this will likely not be an incredible thing to note, but might possibly be grounds for the need to make saves for adaptation (not considering magic or other means), as well as a possible source of flavor.

In terms of technology as well as general aesthetic, as noted in the most recent published piece of info about Akiton, the conditions of Akiton have contributed to the increase in development of machinery (as well as firearms) but have resulted in the planet having notably less comforts and luxuries even compared to more ""primitive"" civilizations. Combined with the fact that much of Akitonian life seems based on city-states, I think Akiton would generally have a highly industrial aesthetic, while also having an air of austerity (that is broken up by the vibrant marketplaces, the elegant retreats and abodes of the affluent and famous, and the city-state sponsored festivals).

One large aspect I would like to add to Akiton, however, would be the introduction of canals. Canals around the planet would allow for larger communities to spring up around the major canals, and give focus to the contrast between civilization and barbarity on this relatively desolate planet.

Also, many timespans have been reduced in this version, since some of them are just too long.

Akitonian Races
The major races of Akiton are primarily composed of humans, lizardfolk, ratfolk, and shobhad, with other races being minorities. Humans on Akiton have two major ethnicities-- the red-skinned natives of the planet, and the Azlanti immigrants from Golarion. The Azlanti on Akiton have rule over several city-states, some of which are along canals, and hope to form what might be the first unified empire on Akiton in a long while. Many native Akitonian humans also live in Azlanti ruled areas, however, possibly even more live in unaligned city-states or in tribal barbarity. The ysoki and shobhad are divided between cities and the wilderness, while the lizardfolk almost exclusively dwell in the wilds.

Akitonian Equipment
On Akiton, "advanced" firearms are considered commonplace. Revolvers of varying caliber and capacity (ranging from 6-8 rounds) are the preeminent sidearm on Akiton, with semi-automatic pistols on the rise. "Bolt-action" chambered rifles and repeaters are also highly common firearms on Akiton, with innovations in railgun technology pioneered by Akitonian humans (and highly preferred by Shobhad) in usage and continuing development. Due to the emphasis on preservation of materials on Akiton, automatic weaponry is not much in vogue, although rapid-fire cannons on airships and skimmerships are becoming more common.

Vehicles and some weapons on Akiton are powered by thasteron, a mineral fuel that can assume the form of a liquid or a solid depending on how it is refined. Thasteron is most commonly used to fuel vehicles, ranging from one-person sand racers to civilian vehicles to skyships. These vehicles integrate technomagical engines and have translucent crystal plates where wheels would be on a mundane car or carriage, which, combined with the energy of thasteron, allows them to hover above the ground. This same "hover" technology is also being experimented in being incorporated into both smaller and larger objects, such as smaller constructs and buildings.

Less common, though still just as important as the previously mentioned are innovations in construct creation. The origin of construct creation on Akiton can most easily be traced to the arrival of the Azlanti on the planet, and their knowledge of clockwork constructs. Since then, innovations have contributed to a new breed of construct called "robots." These robots are often clunky in construction, but have the capability to follow commands more efficiently, as well as hold more potential for upgrade (think Silver age/Golden age comics for what they look like generally). While out of the reach of common citizens of Akiton, robots can be found guarding the residences of the affluent in most city-states of Akiton, not counting the ones produced by enterprising independent scientists.

Finally, the numerous gadgets, gizmos, potions and other such sundry devices hammered together by the scientists/wizards/assorted intellegentia of Akiton find their ways into its markets as well, resulting in situations in which a set of experimental "power armor" could possibly share shelf space with a "shrink ray" and a crate of healing potions.
Setting Notes
In general, this version of Akiton is meant to evoke a slightly more "modern" take on the ""sword and planet"" version of Mars in pulp fiction. Accordingly, Akiton is divided between the gilded glamour of the city-states and the wilds of the places between. Locations on the "seas" may also exist due to the canals. PCs may find themselves alternately ambushing a gang meeting in a city-state, rushing through the deserts of Akiton on a thasteron-fueled vehicle, or battling a mad scientists' robotic armies.

Note that this version of Akiton still generally strives to be "agnostic" insofar as it relates to current published "Golarion setting" works. Feel free to expand on it or adapt it to your personal setting (I certainly have).

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except [REDACTED]. I've always got a little room in my heart for [REDACTED]. Who doesn't?

Something I'd like to see more of and Golarion'd be a great place to do it would be cosmic horrors who aren't hostile to normal beings, just indifferent or maybe even outright LIKE the small insignificant and very fragile creatures, kind of like how entomologists can gush for hours on the cuteness of whatever their favorite bug is.

Fwiw I've heard some serious takes that Desna is some kind of "benevolent Outer God". Between the domains and the non-humanoid "standard appearance" so to speak that theory actually holds some water.

I see that take a lot, but I don't think I've ever seen where it actually came from. I think I've seen a refutation but I don't remember if that was the thing.

If I understand correctly, Desna's original form might have been something like a giant butterfly entity made of moonlight, much like how Sarenrae was a beam of golden light. Before humans, elves, or even angels existed, they had different forms from the ones they do now, but now they're more likely to appear in this form.

It seems like the strange biology, the ancientness, and the assumption of a Form You're Comfortable With have probably run off with the usual exaggeration that normally comes with describing cosmic horrors and outer gods, but maybe there's something more specific and concrete that I haven't heard of.

Not that I would turn down somebody who really liked the idea and wanted to make that a reality in their home game. Sounds pretty sweet, honestly.

Hey I have no problem with either interpretation, considering I've already done a lot of revisions to "the gods" anyways.

The fact that Golarion Elves are aliens puts me to mind of one of my favorite fantasy comics series "Elfquest".

Fwiw I feel the "fantasy" part of the "Golarion" setting is important too.

I mean, we just got a shiny new gazetteer of Castrovel, and Akiton got a 2e writeup before that; I'm dying to romp around the Green Planet, especially if I can get entangled in Lashunta and Formian intrigues! Both are Ancestries I'd love to have playable again, and both have cultures that feel distinctly alien from Golarion, while still working in a sword-and-sorcery mold.

One of my dream 2e projects would be an Iron Gods sequel AP, dealing with uniting the nation, seeing Casandalee's faith rise, and defending Numeria from a Dominion of the Black invasion. I hope it happens in some form someday.

Speaking of that, I think the recent portrayal of Akiton in a certain AP is pretty neat, and conducive to "scifi themes."

I personally would retune some things around the portrayal and implementation of certain elements (although tbh this is all more a flaw of the base system than anything else) as well as the setting itself, but things like the new vehicles and weapons are real neat despite the aforementioned problems.

Also, I have guns (including "advanced" guns, so to speak) and the like be common on Akiton.

Ps: Also, gazetteer of Castrovel? Could you tell me where, please?

My internal logic for so many fantasy settings being humanocentric, was expressed by Ambassador Delenn on "Babylon 5": Humans share one unique quality. They build communities. If the Narns or the Centauri or any other race built a station like this, it would be used only by their own people, but everywhere humans go, they create communities out of diverse and sometimes hostile populations. It is a great gift and a terrible responsibility, one that cannot be abandoned."

-- Delenn in Babylon 5:"And Now For a Word"

Tbh that's more of a reason to have humans in a lot of communities, and less "humanocentrism --even the most cosmopolitan areas are 80+% human".

If anything there is more reason to have mixed, cosmopolitan places.

keftiu wrote:

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except [REDACTED]. I've always got a little room in my heart for [REDACTED]. Who doesn't?

Something I'd like to see more of and Golarion'd be a great place to do it would be cosmic horrors who aren't hostile to normal beings, just indifferent or maybe even outright LIKE the small insignificant and very fragile creatures, kind of like how entomologists can gush for hours on the cuteness of whatever their favorite bug is.

Fwiw I've heard some serious takes that Desna is some kind of "benevolent Outer God". Between the domains and the non-humanoid "standard appearance" so to speak that theory actually holds some water.

I mean, we just got a shiny new gazetteer of Castrovel, and Akiton got a 2e writeup before that; I'm dying to romp around the Green Planet, especially if I can get entangled in Lashunta and Formian intrigues! Both are Ancestries I'd love to have playable again, and both have cultures that feel distinctly alien from Golarion, while still working in a sword-and-sorcery mold.

One of my dream 2e projects would be an Iron Gods sequel AP, dealing with uniting the nation, seeing Casandalee's faith rise, and defending Numeria from a Dominion of the Black invasion. I hope it happens in some form someday.

Apart from already published stuff, what specific ideas would you want to pitch? They don't necessarily need to "fit" in the "Golarion canon".

For example, one idea for an interdimensional adventure might be the PCs are contracted by a mysterious patron for work, only to discover the patron is a demon operating out of a metropolis in the Abyss, and they have to work for him, simultaneously acclimating to their surroundings as well as finding a way to conclude their contract.

So recently I have been reading my old copy of Dragonstar as well as some other materials about futuristic themes in rpgs, as well as my copy of the old Planescape setting, and I wondered about what ideas for scifi themed adventures could be used for the setting.

As a major fan of the "Golarion" setting's scifi elements, I really think the setting is becoming less and less "bog standard fantasy" in practically every way. As such, I definitely don't think a scifi-themed adventure adventure would be out of place at all. To give a couple ideas, the scifi themed adventure could be interdimensional or it could be a "space" themed campaign.

In terms of interdimensional adventures, I think there has been some really interesting precedent in places like Alushinyrra that I feel are really a step in the right direction for handling locations on the Outer Planes (unlike say, in earlier editions where Sigil's pop. was literally like a mere 250,000, pitifully small-- really a ton of DnD/PF pop. numbers were way too low). Really play up the differences in those places-- and note that the cosmopolitan areas could incorporate features of different worlds than Golarion, which is where the scifi element could come into play. Besides the Outer Planes though, I feel there are many adventures to be had just exploring things like alternate realities or others planes of existence.

In terms of "space" themed stuff I think incorporating magitech space ships as experimental designs for adventures originating on Golarion would be really neat, as could be an adventure in which the PCs are abducted by passing aliens. Exploring new worlds and encountering new civilizations would be really amazing.

So what ideas do you all have for a scifi themed campaign or module in the setting of Golarion?

Also, obligatory clamoring for a 2e "Tech Guide"!!

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except Hastur. I've always got a little room in my heart for Hastur. Who doesn't?

[Insert rant about how Cthulhu is massively overrated in practically all media involving him; he was bonked and damaged by a low-powered steam/sailing boat and gave up]

Also, I actually like the elf lore, even if I have changed the ancestries as a whole. The idea that "elves are aliens" is a really good one and sets one of the tones of the setting (something I really wanted the setting to play into more rather than just being "bog standard fantasy").

I don't have much to add here that others haven't, but my major changes:

1) far less humanocentric, in the sense that the major nations of the Inner Sea have waaay more nonhumans in them and this is considered normal because it's always been that way. Giants, kobolds, goblins, firbolgs, and lycanthropes in particular are not random encounter material but often long-established citizens of various nations, or recognized holders of their own fiefdoms that engage in trade/intrigue/conflict with their neighbors like any other polity.

2) Firearms are more common (radiating out primarily from Alkenstar, the Shackles, Irrisen, Ustalav, and Oprak) with clockpunk in particular becoming more and more common in those specific areas. My "pirate party" campaign had a ship that could fly thanks to a genie wish and they weren't subtle about it, so rigid-framed airships are becoming popular as other powerful leaders see the Queen of Disaster and wonder why they don't have a flying ship too! And once one area has them, everyone else gets in on it as well.

3) space-fantasy connections in the sense of witchwyrds with space-capable vessels seeking out trading partners, and Verces is also building their own such vessels. Triaxus is going to have an industrial revolution soon.

4) currently GMing a Reign of Winter campaign, and I'm not at all certain Irrisen's fate will match the Lost Omens canon; I think it was a wasted opportunity not to make a larger change there.

5) I also have Yggdrasil, though it's more fey/First World flavored! I like the concept of the irminsul, but the statblock execution was atrocious--so I use them as living site of connection to the World Tree.

And I reeeeaaaaallllyyy want to run some adventures in southern Garund, the part of the continent Paizo hasn't visited yet. I keep hoping they'll give us more than the bare hints we've gotten so far.

I like this take on the setting. Personally I really lean into the "magic/science" thing and allow a lot of gadgets and devices based on that (mostly because I think "steampunk" is really overdone).

I also really like the decrease of humanocentrism, which has never made sense in these settings.

Golarion is also medium industrial or industrializing across the myriad different parts of the world, though it is different in different places. Magic/science definitely has a major impact on it as well.

Incidentally, as much as I love advanced themes, I've brought all the planets of the system more or less in line with each other since some of them are bafflingly more developed than others, which only gets worse of you use the original way-too-long timescales (something I think the writers didn't really plan out). I've also changed their qualities slightly, in different ways.

Having said that, the nature of Golarion and its system in my setting means that a lot of space-fantasy/scifi stuff can and will happen.

Ps: incidentally, in terms of paizo publications, I really want more Casmaron stuff, so I can adapt it to my "Golarion" setting.

as of the newest treasure vault preview, I still need a new crafting alternative again ^^; its kind of amazing that they decided that everyone claiming that crafting was lame and slow, decided to give us a variant version that is both slower, and adds finicky rules that will often end up losing the crafter their money. at least for permanent items, the consumable stuff seemed a lot more reasonable and I quite liked that part.

Yeah as nice as it is that some of the grandfathered useless minutia and rules awkwardness got edited out in 2e* (random risk of poisoning self every time you use poison, amirite?) some of the mechanics suffer from some kind of confusing decisions that have almost DnD 5e levels of obtuseness.

*with the exceptions of things like "no metal for druids ever" which is a specific holdover that still confuses me

On the talk of "outsiders" and deities, in keeping with making things more "epic", but also less "cut and dry", I've made it so not only do the "half-outsider/spirit" races (and races in general) have "greater" abilities so to speak, but outsiders and deities in general are things I've been trying to make more "mysterious", while also not being obtuse.

Incidentally, MnM's Warriors and Warlocks supplement gives surprisingly good general advice for worldbuilding in terms of directly making a fantasy campaign-- I vaguely recall a reviewer claiming that its writers could handle DnD better than the current holders of that property.

To note, on ancestries/races, I wanted to give them flexibility/variety in choice as well as actually useful and awesome "racial abilities/powers". Feats/class abilities also got a lot of revision in the same vein.

Also, one more detail: guns and the like are more prevalent in my setting, being "core handbook weapons" so to speak. Because honestly, I don't see why they should be so excluded in a fantasy setting that specifically has support for them, and I think that overthinking their "irl lethality" and other related minutia is pretty ridiculous.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

So I was recently thinking about worldbuilding the "Golarion setting" based off of inspiration from Guns and Gears and "universal" rpgs like MnM/GURPS, for a personal project.

Thus, I wanted to write down some ideas for an "Industrial Age period" for Golarion.

In terms of weapons, I really don't see the problem in having at least "World War" (roughly corresponding to irl 1 and 2 as well as late 20th century stuff) level firearms in the setting, in order to bypass the wonkiness of the "early firearms" thing (minor digression, but due to some bad experiences with certain rpgs, overemphasizing equipment and the minutia of the system is a pretty bad design decision), alongside swords and bows and other things-- it's perfectly appropriate for high fantasy "genre-mash" settings.

a few for every "class" of gun should be good we don't need to go into details of every caliber and the number of grains and there wasn't many types during that time period (like no machine pistols). even during the age of sail the sword was more of a backup weapon. what I thought was a missed opertunity was "outlaw star" style caster guns.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Vehicles could finally play a greater role with the rise of cars, planes, and trains (the last also doubles as a source of great action scenes). Communications would also obviously improve.

a word of warning even mounted archers have angered many of my players or a GM when my character converted a wagon to a hussite warwagon (mobile greater cover) more advanced mechanized infantry tactics would be available at steam or above tech (characters rolling up with an ironclad for land)

Yeah I definitely DON'T want to deal with "gun nuttery" and other meaningless minutia.

The second problem is more the problems of the base system itself than anything else tbh.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Fwiw "alchemy" is basically a subset of magic anyways.

In the sense that it has a wide variety of fantastical effects clearly not possible in our own world, definitely. In the sense that it's actually linked to the forces of magic in any direct way, no, not quite so. It takes no knowledge of spellcasting or magic to perform alchemy, and alchemy continues to function even within an antimagic field.

Of course, one might well headcanon that the fantastical effects possible through alchemy are some bizarre hyper-innate form of metaphysical interaction that doesn't actually use any magical power at all, but I don't know if that's very well supported.

Alchemy is a good example of how even mundane science on Golarion might be called upon to make things a little weird when crafting a 'future' scenario.

Oh yeah that's what I meant.

The thing is (as far as I headcanon) that Golarion is highly magical and so many things we think are "mundane" are influenced by magic somehow.

But of course this links to the topic of needing to actually worldbuild magic.

Incidentally the lack of worldbuilding (or even themes or tone) for Starfinder is why I really dislike that game and its take on things related to this topic.

snip

Well then I feel the implicit question/assumption here is actually worldbuilding magic better than what the base setting and system gives us.

I feel Golarion has a lot of precedent for magitech and such. Frankly I already headcanon that Golarion's planet and life, humans, etc. aren't exactly the same as irl but that's a digression.

More on topic I feel all this could work really well in terms of describing a "transitional stage" so to speak of this setting, which will require more real worldbuilding on the GM's part to actually figure specifics out since the base setting does not elaborate on certain things.

Incidentally there's an agnostic rpg book called "Magical Industrial Revolution" that could be interesting and/or useful in some way for this.

Fwiw "alchemy" is basically a subset of magic anyways.

snip

I feel you have done your work in showing the different "periods" of this. That is really neat!

In my opinion, I believe we sort of have to decide the role of magic in this as well. I feel magic would greatly bolster science and the "industrial revolution."

In terms of devices and such, I personally really don't like the overused "steampunk" milieu. As such, I think magic would open up new possibilities.

For example, a progression could be internal combustion engines later turning into advanced magic powered devices.

In terms of the setting, I think the world is large enough to hold all these ideas. I'm really not too worried about guns and armor. Tbh this is where I feel the fantasy side should come in-- maybe there is a new means of armor making, or supernatural skill with certain weapons means they are still used.

standard coal industry stuff are too boring

steampunk with clockwork construct or victorian ustalav gothic are a little better

more high magic stuff like automaton flesh forge and flying city would be better

quantium are a great example with the heavy magical industry pollution

Yeah I feel playing up the fantasy merging with the setting is a very good idea.

Another idea: interworld travel themes and adventures.

_shredder_ wrote:

My biggest gripe with paizos golarion is how human centric it is, a trope that I never liked in any fantasy media with multiple intelligent ancestries. I find fantasy much more interesting were humans are neither especially common nor especially well liked or influential compared to other ancestries. I was especially disappointed when I read that even absalom is like 80% human, when I always imagened absalom as a fantasy metropolis where all kinds of cultures exist right next to each other, where it's normal to see a conrasu barkeeper or a strix courier and small parts of the city are almost entirely controlles by sprites or poppets.

But it's not a big deal, I just add NPCs to adventures to make uncommon/rare ancestries seem more common and slightly change the lore.

This.

I also modify a lot of races/ancestries in many different ways.

For example, there are differences between elves native to Castrovel and elves from Castrovel that now live on Golarion, not to mention elves found elsewhere. I also am a lot more generous with "racial abilities" for lack of a better term, all to fit the setting better.

Incidentally, to clarify this a bit more, I take some inspiration from MnM and generally try to both make ancestries/races more "super" so to speak and allow for more options and possibilities.

Fwiw PF2e has already done a surprisingly decent job of expanding options (unlike, say, DnD 5e where that game's inherent limitations make certain things genuinely a pain to try to work with/homebrew for).

Magitech is always my go to for how a high fantasy world would advance. It already has in some parts like in places like Nex. Lots of cool stuff you can find in impossible lands.

For firearms, perhaps the secrets of the star guns have been unravelled and they've been able to reproduce them in a limited fashion. With magic involved, I like the idea of tech completely "skipping" what would be logical steps so they'd go from breach loaded flintlocks straight to laser guns.

Yeah, I feel also a theme with a lot of "genre-mash" superhero stuff is how the "super-people" archetype or their equivalent have some kind of "super-tech" in their society.

However, I also feel that there is a lot of room for what I have outlined as well, to represent "transitional" phases and such. Including things like "alternate tech levels" which would cover your suggestion.

Fwiw I've written up another thread on "what does your Golarion look like?" that more deeply covers the changes in design and theme I have done/am planning to implement.

So I was recently thinking about worldbuilding the "Golarion setting" based off of inspiration from Guns and Gears and "universal" rpgs like MnM/GURPS, for a personal project.

Thus, I wanted to write down some ideas for an "Industrial Age period" for Golarion.

In terms of weapons, I really don't see the problem in having at least "World War" (roughly corresponding to irl 1 and 2 as well as late 20th century stuff) level firearms in the setting, in order to bypass the wonkiness of the "early firearms" thing (minor digression, but due to some bad experiences with certain rpgs, overemphasizing equipment and the minutia of the system is a pretty bad design decision), alongside swords and bows and other things-- it's perfectly appropriate for high fantasy "genre-mash" settings.

Vehicles could finally play a greater role with the rise of cars, planes, and trains (the last also doubles as a source of great action scenes). Communications would also obviously improve.

However, I feel the most important aspect is to play up the "fantasy" factor. Things like magitech, or even "alternate physics" super-science like gadgets and devices (with precedent from GnG, and they don't need to be "steampunk" either). New spells and forms of magic as well.

Personally, I think Golarion changes to fit this setting very easily, considering the many precedents already in published material. I mostly just made changes in terms of reducing arbitrariness of certain design decisions as well as cutting down many overly long timescales.

Any and all constructive input on the topic is welcomed.

I’d sooner see Arcadia or Southern Garund, but I’m not at all opposed to a Casmari campaign! My immediate interest is in Iblydos, chasing Hellenistic vibes and sympathetic ‘monsters,’ but we likely won’t return without a Mythic-equivalent.

I just feel that Casmaron (and of course Qadira and Kelesh) are just too seemingly important places to just ignore.

Also, it would be really useful to get some stats and NPCs for those areas.

Also clearing up the bizarre sense of racism displayed in the Qadira book as well as SARENRAE, GODDESS of SLAVERY would be neat.

So I've been doing some reading on the area and realized that, like many other non-Inner Sea areas tbh. such a large and seemingly important area has had very little comparatively written for it.

As such, I am writing to ask whether anyone might be interested in a possible Casmaron based AP, whether focused on the obvious locale of Qadira or further in Kelesh. In any case, it would be useful to get more information on those areas (beyond the stereotypical "Arab Land" stuff).

If such a Casmaron based AP were to be written, what do you think it would be about? Feel free to post your own ideas as well.

So recently I was reading through my old APs and thinking about writing up campaigns, and I decided to try out writing out "module ideas" in the 3/6 module "AP-style", finding it helpful in formatting campaigns/coming up with ideas. Here is my first attempt:

(Note-- this is my personal and customized version of the "Golarion setting." This is the reason for things that seem different from the base version, though I try in this transcription to keep things the same)

The New Worlds War (working title-- all titles are working rn tbh)

Themes: War, Technological Advancement, Magic, Interworld Travel, Politics

Location(s): Technically the entire solar system, but with a heavy focus on all the parts of Golarion, with Castrovel and Akiton being second (and other places not to feature much until book 4-- tentatively speaking)

Book 1 : A Powder Keg, Ignited (Levels 1-3)

The PCs are a group of world travelers (of varying composition) representing various exploratory societies (possible source of campaign traits) on a mission in Qadira, hoping to follow up on leads of an incredible discovery. While in the city of Katheer, however, an act occurs which rapidly plunges the city-- and soon the world-- into chaos: the assassination of a major political figure from Kelesh. The PCs must contend with the consequences of already fraught international relations exploding into open tumult, from outraged civilians to government patrols seeking to apprehend any they suspect of the crime. In making their way out of the country, however, the PCs may have to deal with the remnants of the forces behind the unrest as well.

Book 2: The Burning Red World (Levels 4-6)

Having escaped the unrest in Qadira in the previous book, the characters find themselves transported to the world of Akiton via an ancient portal located in a Thassilonian temple since converted into the headquarters of a cell of the Cult of the New Eon, the anarchistic group responsible for the assassination in Qadira. There, the PCs join a passing trade caravan between the city-states of the Akitonian continents. Upon their arrival in Seldo, a major trade hub of the region, the PCs find themselves embroiled in the intrigue of the city-state's changing relations with other places on Akiton, culminating in a daring battle with Casmoran Empire soldiers on board an experimental skyship over the burning ruins of Seldo.

Book 3: Storming the Gates (Levels 7-11)

The PCs are back on Golarion, after miraculously surviving the Ardent Sirocco 's first (and only) in-action usage of its experimental crystalline wind drive. The PCs are rapidly extracted from their crash site in the Inner Sea region by Taldan soldiers of the United Avistan Alliance (or the Allies for short), and brought before a local Taldan military governor, who inducts them into a special unit of the Taldan military as a result of the UAA declaring their exploratory societies military assets. They are promptly sent out to aid and assist in securing potential magical gates and portals to other worlds, against Casmoran occupation, taking them one end of the war front to the other, where they must confront the war and its aftermath up close.

Book 4: Shooting Over the Moon (Levels 12-14)

With the final Casmoran-threatened gate secured, the PCs are called back from the world of Castrovel to the Allied command in the famous city of Absalom, where the salvaged parts of the wreck of the Ardent Sirocco have contributed to the creation of new ships to traverse space and travel to different worlds on the Material Plane. The PCs are given the honor of being on the first to travel offworld with these first generation ships. Their first mission? Travel to the Moonscar and recover vital intel on the suppliers of Casmaron's new war material.

Book 5: A Wartime Tour (15-18)

The battle between demon residents, Casmoran forces, and Cult of the New Eon agents on and over the desolate landscape of Somal has concluded, in the UAA's favor. However, the Casmoran empire has found other allies in secretive alliances with the Bone Sages of Eox. In the face of this assembled fleet, the UAA scrambles to build up industry and alliances throughout the other worlds of the system. The PCs are sent to attend major diplomatic missions on Castrovel and Akiton, investigate and counter New Epoch plans throughout Triaxus and Verces, and ultimately lead a major battle in space for the safety of all the system.

Book 6: Having Done All, Stand (19-20)

With the ultimate deception of the Cult of the New Eon revealed, and their forces shattered, the PCs must ally with one-time enemies and old allies alike to prevent the Cult's plans for the activation of Apostae. Traveling past the Diaspora, the PCs must battle the remnants of ancient and modern foes alike to make a final stand against the plots of the New Eon in the depths of Apostae, with the knowledge that their universe might change-- for better or worse, is up to them.

1) Any True Elixir of Life drastically slows down your aging speed to a practical zero, for about a month.

2) Monks who unlocked the Timeless Body ability DO potentially live forever unaged (until they "ascend to a higher existence" or do something similar).
3) Your soul doesn't get degraded to building blocks for the Outer Planes if you want so, and no harmful repercussions at all.

Those are what I'd immediately change. Others, I might think of in some other free time...

Fwiw this really exhibits the shortcomings of the system (that existed in 1e and SF as well) in failing to reconcile story with mechanics. Or even make a solid benchmark system for that kind of thing.

I feel like both ways are good for different things. On the one hand, you can create a really interesting, tightly themed setting where to humans, elves are those strange tall people who live in the giant forest over there, orcs are the mighty warriors of the badlands (and to elves, humans are the strange stocky people who cluster on the fields where they make their own food, and to orcs humans are the little folk who are almost as good beast wranglers as themselves)

On the other hand, it would feel rather strange if these people have been living on the same planet already for millennia but still have barely integrated into each other's societies. I feel like once a place gets large enough, it should be a big enough a deal that any people who participate in this whole civilization thing can plausibly be found there, often in proportionate numbers.

And of course, a city the size of Absalom can be truly cosmopolitan, while maybe a town in a nation where simply due to geographical distribution there is a different proportion of species present. We can have it both ways, even in one setting, if we choose.

Oh sure I have no problem with doing things as they would logically turn out. Just too many times the default to human is just because of obvious internal bias.

In the same reason that Osirion and Ustalav serve very specific niches, so too do Numeria and elf-gates to Castrovel. The greatest strength of the Lost Omens setting is that some corner of it is likely to be the flavor you want, and ignoring whatever you don’t is trivial.

Some groups would play Quest for the Frozen Flame as a very grounded faux-Ice Age narrative… and others would allow an Android PC from the nearby eastern lands. Both can be happy!

To focus solely on the example raised, this is another reason why I feel PF's setting needs more "different time period support" (while also having at least some kind of justification for that).

Like, Quest for the Frozen Flame is clearly intended to depict adventures in a more or less Neolithic region (though it fails to commit in certain ways) in a fantasy world. In the same vein I would like for maybe a Bronze Age area, perhaps in a different place.

Oh, and the specific image of something like an Android neolithic tribesperson just feels really fun to me (probably for the same reason I found Numeria to be novel). This is even sort of implemented in the AP itself via allowing characters that join the focused-on neolithic tribe to be from outside of the actual region.

“Thuvia-as-fantasy UAE” (in terms of coping with being dependent on a single export) is a really, really compelling angle. Between that and the desertification in Rahadoum, I love the potential for some super nonstandard plotlines in the region.

TBH I think the Sun Orchid Elixir as a whole is not really a good plot point for the whole place, considering its a pretty pitiful accomplishment when stacked up against every other person at that level, so to speak. And monopolizing the generic "immortality" thing to a single item in a world of magic feels awkward to me.

I understand from a meta reason it's meant to be a sort of "priceless plot-starting object" but I feel better things can carry that title.

snip

Frankly, I feel as if what this whole trend really needs is more "bronze age" and "relative time periods" support. Egypt just happened to be the most well-known Bronze Age civilization due to its survival (more or less) into the modern era (and romanticization in a lot of pulp fiction, etc.).

Oh, and another note on races: I really dislike "humanocentrism" (something something Absalom of all places still being 80% human) and "race stereotypes." Specifically, on the latter, I've actually written up a whole campaign world where half-orcs are considered a major race, to the point of composing a strong nation promoting equality.

The classes from Starfinder are too narrow thematically, trying to go for specific niches that don't actually give you nearly as much freedom as PF2 classes do. Most SF class flavors could live comfortably as class paths, archetypes, or feat trees inside PF2 classes.

The de-emphasis of magic was a bit of a waste, since every group I was in had someone who wanted to play a full on Space Wizard but really couldn't to their satisfaction, so bringing back PF2 style magic would be a boon. Fully embracing the PF2 caster-martial balance allows tech and magic to fit together gracefully without magic taking an overly back-seat position as it felt in SF. Also, the long level gaps between new spells in SF was the pits.

Zero of the people I played with enjoyed the equipment of SF, finding it fiddly, overwhelming, treadmilly, and tedious. I had to prepare so many shortlists of options for my groups because they didn't know how to tackle the massive lists, even with search functions. So, wholesale borrowing the PF2 equipment system, and putting the word "Futuristic" in front of every item would be preferable.

Yeah TBH I feel the "big problem" of SF was that it lacked any real theme or tone, which is vital for any RPG (even the "universal" ones). This made it really awkward and difficult to familiarize players with anything and even to worldbuild as a GM.

Frankly, in retrospect, SF suffered a lot from basically almost being a proto-testbed for things that would later be hammered out in PF Playtest and 2e proper.

If anything, I think as the official setting is becoming less and less "bog standard fantasy", which is a great thing, the sci-fi stuff belongs more, not less.

On the talk of "outsiders" and deities, in keeping with making things more "epic", but also less "cut and dry", I've made it so not only do the "half-outsider/spirit" races (and races in general) have more concrete and "greater" abilities so to speak, but outsiders and deities in general are things I've been trying to make more "mysterious", while also not being obtuse.

Incidentally, MnM's Warriors and Warlocks supplement gives surprisingly good general advice for worldbuilding in terms of directly making a fantasy campaign-- I vaguely recall a reviewer claiming that its writers could handle DnD better than the current holders of that property.

While I have dabbled in many different AP, I have only run Rise of the Runelords to completion, so it is only the changes from that adventure that I would consider 'canon' for my ongoing home-interpretation of Golarion;

The Heroes of Sandpoint befriended and 'civilized' the goblins of Thistletop. Sandpoint now has a small micro-community of good goblins (called either Hope, or Stinkpoint depending on who you ask). Goblins are now unlocked as a playable race in future campaigns.

Ameiko Kaijitsu married dwarf PC Rast Sternhammer and they have a baby called Gara.

The Heroes of Sandpoint involved themself in the elections for the new Mayor of Magnimar and saw Haldeem Grobaras thrown out on his fat arse. Leis Nivlandis is voted in to replace him. There is even a goblin on the city council now (and goblin lawyers!).

The Broken Arrows are restored under human PC Ben Kotek.

The Paradise riverboat is now a floating casino/fortress owned by half-orc PC Grogg.

The lost city of Xin Shalast is found and (following the exodus of Xarzoug's giant allies) reclaimed by the yeti. The yeti are unlocked as a playable race in future campaigns.

That's really neat, in terms of continuity.

Incidentally, on the topic of Numeria, that's another major country I had to change up. Instead of only being famous for being only a crash site of a single ship, I made it so that Numeria was the site of a massive artifact built to channel the energy of the cosmos (well, more or less), that went haywire during one of the cataclysms and wound up summoning a bunch of alien starships and generation ships to Golarion, and severely damaging them. Over time, these "visitants" forgot their origins, but continue to live in the ruins of their ships in varying degrees of development, as well as traveling outside to other lands (this is my way to have a lot more races in the game).

On a more general note, the new nature of Golarion itself means I have a lot more "magic/fantasy" influenced natural landmarks and formations as well, ie like floating mountains and naturally formed portals, etc. etc.

In addition, I really had to pare down a lot of timespans (even the ones I already pared down), and really making sure there weren't just randomly centuries upon centuries where nothing happens.

Y'know, I've probably got more firearms than the average Golarion. I've got them proliferating quite a bit across Garund, with how much trade flows across the northern bit of the continent - once one group of caravan guards gets their hands on jezails, everybody's gonna want them, and doubly so once bandits start stealing them.

Yeah, me too. To be more specific, I've tied in increasing magic and tech advancement into my new Golarion timeline as well as in certain areas (ie my revamped New Thassilon, to name one), and am building up for a full on "Worlds War" camapign across the solar system.

Some other things I incorporated into my setting would be "fantasy megastructures" and their ruins in the post apocalypse. This is a major thing even in the base setting (just look at Varisia) but I take a lot more inspiration from Godbound and Exalted (the latter of which I would probably just run as a setting for the former's system if I got the chance).

Oh, one thing I just remembered! I tend to run a Golarion in which homophobia and transphobia exist. I like to do this in part because my games tend to focus a lot on the social role of adventuring in society. Adventuring is an overwhelmingly queer and disability-inclusive profession in my worldbuilding, because, well, I figure you don't generally become an adventurer if everything in your home life is going swimmingly. There's gotta be a reason you've been pushed to the fringes.

Bigotry isn't universal, though. No, Old Deadeye doesn't go around kicking gay penguin couples off of icebergs. In Varisia, where I usually focus my games, it really varies from town to town. Communities with large Varisian or Shoanti populations tend to be a lot more chill. The Chelaxian- and Taldan-dominated cities are rougher. Sandpoint is, of course, an extremely nice place to move to if you're gay or trans, to the extent that it's sort of a regional joke on par with moving to San Francisco.

I don't necessarily harass PCs with it (and I always check in with them at the start of play), but it is a backdrop. Meanwhile, "adventurer bars" are basically gay bars, and you have to be careful when accepting an invitation to join an adventuring party to clarify whether this is an actual adventuring party, an invitation to someone's four-way, or both.

To be fully honest, I'm genuinely torn between the sheer hilarity of the nuances of this and the sheer wrongness I would feel if I were to actually try to portray racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia in any of my games as the actual GM.

My biggest gripe with paizos golarion is how human centric it is, a trope that I never liked in any fantasy media with multiple intelligent ancestries. I find fantasy much more interesting were humans are neither especially common nor especially well liked or influential compared to other ancestries. I was especially disappointed when I read that even absalom is like 80% human, when I always imagened absalom as a fantasy metropolis where all kinds of cultures exist right next to each other, where it's normal to see a conrasu barkeeper or a strix courier and small parts of the city are almost entirely controlles by sprites or poppets.

But it's not a big deal, I just add NPCs to adventures to make uncommon/rare ancestries seem more common and slightly change the lore.

This.

I also modify a lot of races/ancestries in many different ways.

For example, there are differences between elves native to Castrovel and elves from Castrovel that now live on Golarion, not to mention elves found elsewhere. I also am a lot more generous with "racial abilities" for lack of a better term, all to fit the setting better.

As a general rule, I multiply all population numbers by ten.

This, at the very least.

I'm also vaguely reminded of the executive meddling that produced a Khorvaire (of Eberron fame) ten times the size of the original, completely messing up a bunch of things based on that.

In terms of "minor" details I've done a bit of work concerning reworking names to have some kind of link to whatever nation/city state/ancestry/whatever the language is associated with in my setting. This is mostly because I feel there's just a lot of really awkward names in the setting as is (although not as bad as some of what you might find in the Forgotten realms).

In terms of the world I really wanted to emphasize the high sci fantasy nature by making the heroes and villains more "super" so to speak which ties into the new lore. I've also redone some nations (ie Cheliax, Nidal, Andoran, Numeria, to name some) as well. I've also really played up the pre existing post-apocalyptic-ness of Golarion.

In terms of cosmology and the universe and stuff I've worked a lot on expanding it and setting up crossovers.

After reading through my copies of the Rise of the Runelords and Return of the Runelords campaigns, Guns and Gears, and some other books, I decided to post this thread.

What does your current Golarion setting look like, and what changes, major or minor, have you made to the setting to make it your own?

On my end, having been fascinated by the themes and ideas present in the Rise amd Return of the Runelords lore, as well as themes of interworld travel and technology raised throughout the publications of camapigns as well as Guns and Gears, I decided to place much more emphasis in terms of Golarion's legacy affecting both its past and its future.

Specifically, the "ancient age" of Golarion had basically the same themes as Godbound or Exalted, in terms of the great empires that spread across Golarion and their champions (this is my reinterpretation of a lot of the early "god" lore of the setting). Eventually, a vast cataclysm(s) ended this age. The "current" age of Golarion is set some 2000 years more or less after this (I decided to shorten a lot of overly long timespans), in a vastly post apocalyptic world in the ruins of greatness but also in a time of restoration and progress afterwards, although large tracts of the world are still unexplored.

I've also set up a number of crossover points with my other settings, through my Planescape Future "nexus" setting.

I would very much like to see what you have done! Your input is encouraged.

Android, Automaton, and Poppet are all construct Ancestries in 2e, while we’re still waiting on 1e’s Wyrwoods to come over. Between those options, is there construct stuff you still feel isn’t covered?

Thinking on it again, maybe some way to integrate gadgets and modifications and such would a good possibility.

(And I still hope we get more stuff like this, especially a tech guide and some kind of alchemy book with biomods and stuff).

Android, Automaton, and Poppet are all construct Ancestries in 2e, while we’re still waiting on 1e’s Wyrwoods to come over. Between those options, is there construct stuff you still feel isn’t covered?

Huh. Not much at this point, besides surprise at the amount of choices for this kind of thing in the setting.

So recently I was working on some aspects of my homebrew PF 1 Golarion setting in the course of porting it to 2e, and I read through Guns and Gears and was inspired by its content, especially in terms of lore and setting elements.

As such, I was interested in the idea of making some kind of magical clockwork android ancestry available to players to use. Any help on this in terms of design?

Fwiw, there is a bit of precedent with this kind of thing with the automaton ancestry iirc, not to mention things like sterling dynamo and basically "steampunk cyberware".

I don't mind robots and tech in my fantasy, I'm just not sure when I would use the book other than "when we're doing an adventure in Numeria". If there's more of a justification for a "hypertech Guns and Gears" than "one part of the map" then I'd love to hear about it.

Fwiw a "hypertech/supertech Guns and Gears" wouldn't actually be a bad starting design point, considering Guns and Gears was as much lore (and story/plot points, etc.) as it was mechanics.

The big thing I would want though is for it to emphasize player and GM design and a sort of tech level table so to speak to base off of.

To reiterate, I really hope the system (or the need to pander to some kind of customer base) doesn't wind up crippling the potential available in this setting. Pathfinder has always tried to "do more" than other mainstream fantasy settings I feel, and getting a "tech guide" or at the very least incorporation of Guns and Gears (ie firearms and inventions and gadgets) stuff and other developments into official publications especially those concerning all the world.

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I think Sword & Planet stuff is a vital piece of the fantasy genre’s history, and completely appropriate for Parhfinder; given that the AP line has gone interplanetary twice in 2e so far, I’d certainly love a Distant Worlds + tech book.

Which two times are you counting? I've got four times that I can think of, spoilered below.

** spoiler omitted **

Cut the 1e APs from your list and our numbers line up, though you're actually missing a second planet in Reign of Winter (and a third is mentioned that hasn't come up since!). :p

What are those two, if I might ask? (Please put under spoiler tag if needed).

I'm all for as much sci-fi as possible in Pathfinder, up to and including fully merging Starfinder into the system, because it's impossible to go back to the jankness of Starfinder after playing PF2. Starfinder's excellent setting is albatrossed by the horrible rules.

So saying we shouldn't do something because it steps on Starfinder's toes is quite a lot like consigning those elements to the grave.

Definitely agree, for slightly different reasons.

Also, because a book like that would genuinely be very useful.

I think the thing about planet hopping stories is that I think you want to keep from mixing "Pathfinder themes" and "Starfinder themes" too much. So just like you wouldn't want to do a Starfinder story where the PCs lose all their gear and are trapped on a planet with medieval/renaissance level technology and they need to figure out how to get off of it, I'm not sure how much spacefaring we want to do in Pathfinder.

The problem as far as I see it is that there was a bunch of "space" stuff published for PF, which makes things wonky. I personally also really dislike Starfinder and think it was unnecessary.

Still holding out for a tech guide though.