D3stro 2119's page

I think Numeria's probably too divisive for another 6-parter, but I'm maintained for ages now that a levels 5-15 AP about busting up Technic League holdouts and Dominion of the Black invaders would be amazing.

Just make sure Lady Altouna gets a scene of substance somewhere!

Hey, after the ""nature"" themed 5-15 ap, one set in numeria would fit well!

So after having recently read through the Impossible Lands stuff again, I noted that we've yet to receive another AP in probably one of the biggest hotspots in the Impossible Lands, Numeria.

Thus, what would you like to see in a potential 2e Numeria AP?

Personally, I would like to see a conspiracy involving alien infiltration, culminating in a proper ""alien invasion"" type plot. Bonus points if the supplemental material gives us far reaching campaign material like that issue of Dragon magazine detailing a githyanki invasion.

Of course, there's always a chance to do a three part AP instead of a full AP like the one above. This version could possibly involve uniting the barbarian tribes of Numeria against a leftover holdout of the forces within Numeria's ruins.

All your helpful input is welcomed!

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Having said that, I really, truly think the worst part of the dissonance is the flintlock stuff. For something like a simple mechanical revolver to be excluded when the Inventor exists is nonsensical. Heck, just make up some kind of alchemical cartridge thing for more exotic stuff and the whole problem is solved.

I think to understand why you have to look at the development history of Golarion and understand it is because there was a combo of some people really hating firearms in their fantasy & that mechanically advanced firearms (which is what 1e called revolvers, shotguns, etc) completely made other weapons obsolete due to the mechanics of that system. So when they finally made their way to their first Alkenstar Module (IIRC Wardens Of The Forge was in '13, which was 2 years after Ultimate Combat introduced firearms in '11 as a mechanic) I think the above backlash informed them on what people would accept and settled on "early" firearms for the setting to lean closer to the fantasy elements of their world and leave more advanced stuff in their setting for Numeria or something.

However, as folks have put out up thread you will definitely see a more modern firearm around at some point either in a future AP (mechanically it shouldn't be much more than an Air Repeater with a bigger die or Lethal) or with 2e Starfinder if you just want the mechanics. Otherwise, try to look on the upside that Golarion is wide enough that it still has stuff like this rather than being just traditional fantasy!

Fwiw that's less the ""developmental history of Golarion"" than it is the bungling of firearms rules in 1e (the touch AC thing was awful).

Having said that I agree overall on what you think we are likely going to actually get.

I will say never felt like Alkenstar gave off Arcane vibes but do feel the mechanics of the game (Gunslinger, Inventor and Fire arms stuff like that) don't really back up what it is trying to go for that well

Yeah for me I forget that Pf2e already has a lot of pulp stuff in it lol.

Having said that, I really, truly think the worst part of the dissonance is the flintlock stuff. For something like a simple mechanical revolver to be excluded when the Inventor exists is nonsensical. Heck, just make up some kind of alchemical cartridge thing for more exotic stuff and the whole problem is solved.

snip

Yeah tbh I think the latter view is much better than what we actually got.

To note, a great deal of the reason I began this thread (beyond my own observations) was because literally every player who read the player's guide asked me ""so this is gonna be like Arcane, right?"" lol

Having said that, I agree that the tone of Alkenstar is different from that. And having said that, I'm still getting rid of the flintlock junk and putting in things like revolvers and rules for clockwork prosthetics.

Just off of my memory of book 1 of the adventure path I remember a barhop with robo tinkerer hands, robot bank guards, a crashed blimp with a literal machine spirit (40k style), a diesel looking crane in a junkyard fool of scrapped steampunk inventions) and a mass production style brewery with magitech refrigeration units. Outlaws of alkenstar checked all the steampunk boxes in my eyes. All of that being couched in wild West chiq is what gives it a unique identity instead of being a derivative, posh, vaguely British steampunk like you see in many renditions (not Arcane though).

To be honest, it’s precisely because all those things are included that the default setting (especially the flintlock obsession*) feels awkward and disjointed. The design requirements of a simple mechanical revolver a la the Colt SAA or Nagant M1895 pale when compared to what would be necessary for literally any of those examples (at least, the non-mystical ones). Everything looking drab and dusty is a flavor complaint on top of that.

To talk about a potentially more story relevant point, there’s still the fact that pyronite is hyped up a bunch in the story yet utterly ceases to be a relevant point after OoA concludes.

*I may as well note that irl there were two whole stages of firearms development (the matchlock and the wheellock) before the flintlock even existed that Paizo seems to have forgotten about

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Finoan wrote:

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.

For more advanced technology to import into PF2 adventures such as Outlaws of Alkenstar, you may need to wait for Starfinder2e to become available. That should have plenty of high technology mechanics that can be re-themed to steampunk non-flintlock weapons and equipment.

Point being, it would be really easy to introduce revolvers and the whole Red Dead armory now already. Complaints about ""deadliness"" really hold no water considering how high pulp fantasy Golarion already is.

My point being that such things are most likely going to be added in Starfinder.

A revolver is basically a capacity weapon. And a semi-automatic pistol would be a repeating weapon. So the mechanics are already there. We just don't have published weapons that use them (without also having some significant drawbacks) because they would outshine the various bows, crossbows, and flintlock firearms that the setting is built with.

So if you want to homebrew steampunk firearms with more power, you can do that. If you want published weapons that already have that level of power, look to Starfinder2e when it arrives and re-skin.

It's mostly a flavor complaint about the flintlock stuff at this point.

Having said that I don't think using the idea of anything ""outshining"" or ""obsoleting"" anything really matters in a setting like Golarion, especially not with the more Wild West stuff.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.

For more advanced technology to import into PF2 adventures such as Outlaws of Alkenstar, you may need to wait for Starfinder2e to become available. That should have plenty of high technology mechanics that can be re-themed to steampunk non-flintlock weapons and equipment.

Point being, it would be really easy to introduce revolvers and the whole Red Dead armory now already. Complaints about ""deadliness"" really hold no water considering how high pulp fantasy Golarion already is.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

So since I’ve recently come off of watching Arcane and reading through Outlaws of Alkenstar (still holding out for a Numeria based campaign in 2e), I’d like to discuss the Alkenstar of 2e, since Outlaws of Alkenstar was our first firsthand view of the place in this edition since like one module in 1e.

To be honest, it’s really disappointing to see that they decided to emphasize the “”Bronze Dead Redemption/cowboys with flintlocks”” thing, instead of really focusing on the steampunk/ pulp-weird tech elements.

Maybe this is just a case of a tremendously good portrayal of something being compared to a merely ok portrayal of something, but every time I look at the worldbuilding and ambience of Piltover/Zaun in Arcane and compare it to Skyside/Smokeside of Alkenstar the latter winds up looking like a poor imitation.

Having said that, I believe a great deal of things could be fixed by giving up the weird obsession with flintlock muzzle-loaders that Pathfinder seems to have and replacing them with simple mechanical revolvers and rifles, and more exotic things like maybe the Golarion/Mana Wastes version of thasteron-powered guns (would add subplots for mining that stuff as well).

A new dedicated clockwork automaton ancestry like Golarion’s version of the warforged would help the flavor as well. Lean into the mad science subplot opportunities (possible interplanetary/interplanar adventures might happen here). And depending on personal preference, maybe replace some of the dusty streets with neon lights?

What are your thoughts on this?

ps: the fact that the main plot character of OoA seems to disappear after book 1 and how the overarching plot about “”pyronite”” simply doesn’t seem to be enough of a high stakes enough plot (and that any mention of the stuff vanishes completely after the AP ends) doesn’t help anything

Personally I think the theme of mad science is a bit more Ustalav than it is Alkenstar.

Honestly that's literally only one trope. Ustalav's ""mad science"" bit is greatly outshadowed by the ""undead everywhere"" bit. That trope fits Alkenstar more tbh.

I think the reason it has more of a western cowboyesque feel over 1st Edition's steampunk vibe is because game developers don't like doing the same thing twice. Redundancy in theme is boring and doesn't sell as well.

Another issue is the fact that you're comparing it to Arcane, one of the most cinematically stunning works of art to be released in over a decade. That is a VERY high comparative bar. Not much is going to have the awesome, cool, gravitas that Arcane has. Most things will pale in comparison.

However, that doesn't mean Paizo and other developers can't strive for such a high ideal in interest and quality, but even in doing so they are going to want to keep their identity unique and not simply copy what others are doing (because, again, redundancy is boring and doesn't sell well).

Yeah lol I guess most of it is just a case of ""something amazing compared to something ok"". I mostly just brought it up since I've seen some players I know be disappointed about this.

Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.

Alkenstar has to reside in a something of a living shared world which makes it somewhat difficult to throw a lot of rules out the window on a system-wide scale. Now, that's not to say that you can't just do your own thing in home games, but as more math-inclined people than I have pointed out, revolvers in PF2 would either unbalance things or be so weak as to not fulfill that fantasy that those clamoring for them would want.

Also, are automaton's not to your liking when it comes to "warforged-esque" ancestry? It always felt like a bit of a bone thrown to the warforged crowd.

Like, I suppose what I'm saying is, a lot of what your asking is just a difference in perspective. If you want to tell a story of Alkenstar where there's neon lights and mutagenic drugs running rampant, your world can have that. You can even just take Outlaws of Alkenstar and tell the story in that way. But it does seem that's not where the writers are heading with the area.

I would argue that the LoL world is no less ""living and shared"" than the Paizo world is.

Automatons have this weird baggage to a really obscure part of Golarion lore that I feel ultimately makes them even less accessible than the actual literal androids on the world. Tying them more to Alkenstar would give it something that makes it stand out; in fact I recall a great deal of 3.X Eberron material had small tips on how to include Warforged in other settings.

Oh sure. Again, I'm not saying that all Alkenstar stuff is bad. I just wish that, what with the Inventor class and Alchemist class and other pulp stuff being a thing, that at the very least the weird ""flintlock-only"" stuff gets discarded.

An AP I came up with after discussing interworld adventures.

Swords against the Worlds (working title-- all titles are working rn tbh)

Themes: Sword and Planet, War, Technological Advancement, Magic, Interworld Travel, Politics,

Location(s): Technically the entire solar system, but with a heavy focus on all the parts of Golarion, with Castrovel and Akiton being second (and other places not to feature much until book 4-- tentatively speaking)

Book 1 : A Powder Keg, Ignited (Levels 1-3)

The PCs are a group of world travelers (of varying composition) representing various exploratory societies (possible source of campaign traits) on a mission in Qadira, hoping to follow up on leads of an incredible discovery. While in the city of Katheer, however, an act occurs which rapidly plunges the city-- and soon the world-- into chaos: the assassination of a major political figure from Kelesh. The PCs must contend with the consequences of already fraught international relations exploding into open tumult, from outraged civilians to government patrols seeking to apprehend any they suspect of the crime. In making their way out of the country, however, the PCs may have to deal with the remnants of the forces behind the unrest as well.

Book 2: The Burning Red World (Levels 4-6)

Having escaped the unrest in Qadira in the previous book, the characters find themselves transported to the world of Akiton via an ancient portal located in a Thassilonian temple since converted into the headquarters of a cell of the Cult of the New Eon, the anarchistic group responsible for the assassination in Qadira. There, the PCs join a passing trade caravan between the city-states of the Akitonian continents. Upon their arrival in Seldo, a major trade hub of the region, the PCs find themselves embroiled in the intrigue of the city-state's changing relations with other places on Akiton, culminating in a daring battle with Casmoran Empire soldiers on board an experimental skyship over the burning ruins of Seldo.

Book 3: Storming the Gates (Levels 7-11)

The PCs are back on Golarion, after miraculously surviving the Ardent Sirocco 's first (and only) in-action usage of its experimental crystalline wind drive. The PCs are rapidly extracted from their crash site in the Inner Sea region by Taldan soldiers of the United Avistan Alliance (or the Allies for short), and brought before a local Taldan military governor, who inducts them into a special unit of the Taldan military as a result of the UAA declaring their exploratory societies military assets. They are promptly sent out to aid and assist in securing potential magical gates and portals to other worlds, against Casmoran occupation, taking them one end of the war front to the other, where they must confront the war and its aftermath up close.

Book 4: Shooting Over the Moon (Levels 12-14)

With the final Casmoran-threatened gate secured, the PCs are called back from the world of Castrovel to the Allied command in the famous city of Absalom, where the salvaged parts of the wreck of the Ardent Sirocco have contributed to the creation of new ships to traverse space and travel to different worlds on the Material Plane. The PCs are given the honor of being on the first to travel offworld with these first generation ships. Their first mission? Travel to the Moonscar and recover vital intel on the suppliers of Casmaron's new war material.

Book 5: A Wartime Tour (15-18)

The battle between demon residents, Casmoran forces, and Cult of the New Eon agents on and over the desolate landscape of Somal has concluded, in the UAA's favor. However, the Casmoran empire has found other allies in secretive alliances with the Bone Sages of Eox. In the face of this assembled fleet, the UAA scrambles to build up industry and alliances throughout the other worlds of the system. The PCs are sent to attend major diplomatic missions on Castrovel and Akiton, investigate and counter New Epoch plans throughout Triaxus and Verces, and ultimately lead a major battle in space for the safety of all the system.

Book 6: Having Done All, Stand (19-20)

With the ultimate deception of the Cult of the New Eon revealed, and their forces shattered, the PCs must ally with one-time enemies and old allies alike to prevent the Cult's plans for the awakening of Aucturn. Traveling past the Diaspora, the PCs must battle the remnants of ancient and modern foes alike to make a final stand against the plots of the New Eon in the depths of Aucturn, with the knowledge that their universe might change-- for better or worse, is up to them.

So since I’ve recently come off of watching Arcane and reading through Outlaws of Alkenstar (still holding out for a Numeria based campaign in 2e), I’d like to discuss the Alkenstar of 2e, since Outlaws of Alkenstar was our first firsthand view of the place in this edition since like one module in 1e.

To be honest, it’s really disappointing to see that they decided to emphasize the “”Bronze Dead Redemption/cowboys with flintlocks”” thing, instead of really focusing on the steampunk/ pulp-weird tech elements.

Maybe this is just a case of a tremendously good portrayal of something being compared to a merely ok portrayal of something, but every time I look at the worldbuilding and ambience of Piltover/Zaun in Arcane and compare it to Skyside/Smokeside of Alkenstar the latter winds up looking like a poor imitation.

Having said that, I believe a great deal of things could be fixed by giving up the weird obsession with flintlock muzzle-loaders that Pathfinder seems to have and replacing them with simple mechanical revolvers and rifles, and more exotic things like maybe the Golarion/Mana Wastes version of thasteron-powered guns (would add subplots for mining that stuff as well).

A new dedicated clockwork automaton ancestry like Golarion’s version of the warforged would help the flavor as well. Lean into the mad science subplot opportunities (possible interplanetary/interplanar adventures might happen here). And depending on personal preference, maybe replace some of the dusty streets with neon lights?

What are your thoughts on this?

ps: the fact that the main plot character of OoA seems to disappear after book 1 and how the overarching plot about “”pyronite”” simply doesn’t seem to be enough of a high stakes enough plot (and that any mention of the stuff vanishes completely after the AP ends) doesn’t help anything

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Please feel free to give your opinions on what you expect. For example: while I expect that most of the really prominent celestials and fiends won't make the cut, we will have the Succubus in some fashion because it's basically taken from folklore. The Fire Demon and the Tyrant Devil will probably also appear at some point, but not in forms we currently recognize as balors and pit fiends (somewhat ironic, considering the balor's origin in D&D). We're going to lose the solar and the planetar, but we will likely get the Seraphim and Cherubim in their places, and I don't know whether I want them to be humanoid or weird (or maybe they'll have alternate forms; I'd be happy with that).

I think I have a vague recollection that Solar and Planetars are from New Age occult belief. At the very least, Theosophy has a rank of celestial being called Planetary spirits.

I wonder what changes are going to be made to Kobolds. While Paizo has completely redesigned the appearance, a lot of the personality plus there relationship to dragons is a straight DnD invention. In folklore, Kobolds are pretty generic mine spirits or house spirits, and certainly don't have any draconic traits.

Frankly I wouldn't mind if Monster Core took a totally DnD 4e view of Angels/Celestials and made them the Any Alignment servitors of the Gods, considering the Paizo cosmology already shares similarities to that cosmology anyways.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Ironically my intro into Sword and Planet was this obscure article in the back of Dragon magazine 102 (or 101) called ""Iron Lords of Jupiter"" (?) which basically was ""John Carter of Mars but on Jupiter and also Jupiter just has really thick cloud cover over its rocky surface in the same way Venus is the steamy stone age jungle planet"".

Edgar Rice Burroughs actually wrote a novel where John Carter wound up on Jupiter. It wasn't a jungle world and the reason the gravity wasn't heavier than on mars was "centrifugal force". This would appear to be the extreme opposite of hard SF, not soft but gaseous SF, like Star Wars.

I was in love with the John Carter and Carson of Venus books when a kid and never quite got over it. So D3stro 2119 you are commanded to move to Perth, Western Australia immediately so I can play in your Campaign.

I have a sword and planet type campaign planned, which rips off the idea of stargates from, well Stargate, and the PCs will go to a Dyson Sphere and interact with the 3 godmind type AIs that maintain it. One, the one charged with defending the Dyson Sphere, has had nothing to do for billions of years and has gone insane.

On another topic, PF1 with high tech and Starfinder are not nescessarily in competition. You go for PF1 with high tech if you want higher fantasy with more powerful magic.

On the topic of ""hardness"" of scifi, I would argue that that whole thing is basically meaningless (in fact a great deal of so called ""hard scifi"" is actually ""gaseous"" as you put it), and that simply categorizing scifi as "high", or "medium" or "low", etc. makes much more sense.

Having said that, I've been working on making a setting that is in the sub genre of "Sword and Stars" which is basically a classification I use to describe a setting that incorporates medium/high scifi stuff with medium/high fantasy elements. I am also working on writing campaigns and adventures for this setting.

Whatever tech book gives mechanic and SRO

I'm pretty sure mechanic is gonna still be a core book class.

The base android write up in the latest play test seems to imply to a certain degree that there will be a lot more non-humanoid androids (with, incidentally, some acknowledgement of the lore of PF-era androids, which further shows how its meant to be compatible with PF2e to me). Whether android ancestry feats will replace the SRO niche is uncertain however, though I personally want that to happen.

So as SF2e is being made, and seems it will be compatible with PF2e (at least more so than it used to be with SF1e to PF1e), I would like to ask you all what you would like to see in terms of the toolkit books for the series; ie books like the galaxy exploration manual, or Galactic magic, Tech revolution, etc.

I'll be frank: I don't like Starfinder's setting, or its mechanics. Having said that, even I have to admit that reading through the galaxy exploration manuals adventure/story prompts was entertaining and thought provoking (ironically whatever setting those prompts seem to be set in is far more interesting to me than the default one).

So, overall, what would you like to see from SF2e in terms of toolkit books? Personally, one that I would really like would be a dedicated tech levels/alternate time periods support book, sort of like the exploration manual but more focused on societies and such and less on the minutia of planetary structure, etc.

So as SF2e is being made, and seems it will be compatible with PF2e, I would like to ask you all what you would like to see in terms of the toolkit books for the series; ie books like the Galaxy exploration manual, or Galactic magic, Tech revolution, etc.

I'll be frank: I don't like Starfinder's setting, or its mechanics. Having said that, even I have to admit that reading through the galaxy exploration manuals adventure/story prompts was entertaining and thought provoking (ironically whatever setting those prompts seem to be set in is far more interesting to me than the default one).

So, overall, what would you like to see from SF2e in terms of toolkit books? Personally, one that I would really like would be a dedicated tech levels/alternate time periods support book, sort of like the exploration manual but more focused on societies and such and less on the minutia of planetary structure, etc.

So as SF2e is being made, and seems it will be compatible with PF2e, I would like to ask you all what you would like to see in terms of the toolkit books for the series; ie books like the Galaxy exploration manual, or Galactic magic, Tech revolution, etc.

I'll be frank: I don't like Starfinder's setting, or its mechanics. Having said that, even I have to admit that reading through the galaxy exploration manuals adventure/story prompts was entertaining and thought provoking (ironically whatever setting those prompts seem to be set in is far more interesting to me than the default one).

So, overall, what would you like to see from SF2e in terms of toolkit books? Personally, one that I would really like would be a dedicated tech levels/alternate time periods support book, sort of like the exploration manual but more focused on societies and such and less on the minutia of planetary structure, etc.

Seeing as Starfinder 2 will be compatible with Pathfinder Remastered, I feel it is in itself a massive addition to PF2R. And vice versa if you are a SF fan.

Personally I’d like to see the Paizo team stick their necks waaaaaaay out and really get creative with a bunch of options (feats, spells, equipment, ancestries, heritages, archetypes) and bolt-ons (like campaign mods) to really take people’s Pathfinder games into the future of gaming. Essentially Remastered Unchained, but even more ground- and lImit-breaking. Obviously none of this would necessarily be Society-conversant, and, to take it even more into the realms of never-gonna-happen, possibly completely removed from Golarion lore.

But a player can dream…

Seeing as that first one is probably gonna be the thing that represents the ""Tech Guide/Distant Worlds book of 2e"" I hope that whatever they release remasters that setting as well. Or at the very least, we get a bunch of toolkit books (ie I recall discussion about wanting an alternate time periods/tech levels support book).

Also, seconding your other point.

I've always felt like interplanetary adventures are akin to interplanar adventures. An alien environment, alien cultures, and even alien physics. The only difference in my mind is that on another planet, you can look up at the stars and know that your own home is out there somewhere.

Even in standard fantasy planetary teleport exists for a reason.

To note, I've heard of Legendary Planet by Legendary Games, but personally that crosses the thin line between ""sword and planet"" and ""basically bog standard fantasy with a slight palette swap"" too much.

Ironically my intro into Sword and Planet was this obscure article in the back of Dragon magazine 102 (or 101) called ""Iron Lords of Jupiter"" (?) which basically was ""John Carter of Mars but on Jupiter and also Jupiter just has really thick cloud cover over its rocky surface in the same way Venus is the steamy stone age jungle planet"".

I do like Scifi x fantasy, which is basically what the old pulp stuff is, but I feel sometimes stupid stuff goes unexplained. Dragonstar for DnD 3.0 is a setting that I also feel is sort of like Starfinder before Starfinder, but it has it's own problems.

ps: I also dislike ""planetary teleport"" since it's a really awkward stealth retcon of spell mechanics/lore that I feel is rather underhanded/needlessly confusing.

D3stro 2119 may have a different opinion, but a Sword and Planet game would be a lot closer to High Science Fantasy to me than "normal" Starfinder. Starfinder pretty much has more or less omnipresent high-tech, just with magic included (closer to Star Wars than Barsoom).

It's probably less about the rules than the feel; for example, the thasphalt weapons from Drift Crisis, along with the various living weapons in the Starfinder Armory, fit in much better with a Sword and Planet setting than most standard Starfinder guns/weapons.

A mix of this and the fact that the Starfinder setting just really doesn't work for me. I guess it just feels to me like a somehow less coherent Shadowrun lol. Although I would argue that Starfinder's problem is that it IS ""high science fantasy"" but in a really awkward mishmashy way with no discernible themes or tone.

It's in terms of this point basically that I'm planning to homebrew.

If you have been on the Starfinder2e Playtest forum, then certainly you have seen the extensive heated discussions about how all the mechanics that people know and love in Starfinder are not going to be guaranteed carried forward to SF2e.

Andd you have seen the class previews that they have - such as a Soldier class that is very much distinct from both the Fighter class and the Gunslinger class in PF2. Honestly, if Oracle and Divine Sorcerer are separate enough to be not stepping on each other's toes, I don't see how SF2e Soldier and Fighter are going to be a problem.

One of the stated goals of Starfinder2e is that the game will be fully playable without needing Pathfinder2e Core rulebooks. However, they are going to have compatible rule sets, so transferring content from one setting to the other will be possible.

That doesn't mean that the setting is the same. There are already some known differences in the setting expectations - such as flight being easy to have access to at early levels, and characters with more than 2 hands. The classes are going to be similar. While the rules are compatible, there will likely need to be conversions made when migrating in one direction or the other. Almost certainly the list of skills is going to be at least slightly different, for example. As will the list of spells on a particular tradition.

Oh sure. I understand this. I just wanted to get some insight on the situation as it is.

On a related topic, besides classes, how do you think races and such will be handled in Starfinder? I remember there were complaints from Starfinder 1e that a majority of the races weren't very distinctive or detailed, and Pathfinder 2e has given them much more detail. One thing I think might happen, considering rnaged attacks and such, is that races with innate fly speeds (and other ""exotic"" movements) will be much more common at level 1 in starfinder.

Just…no. I mean this in the least condescending way possible, but you have a bunch of assumptions about starfinder 2e where the developers have already said there might be changes.

My advice is for you to step back and assume the majority of starfinders mechanics are not hanging around, most especially the class designs. We simply don’t know enough about how even the playtest versions of the classes will look like to see if there’s going to significant overlap between PF2 and SF2 classes. And that “we” includes the developers, as they aren’t even finished writing those classes out yet.

Edit: and then also check out the starfinder forum where the playtest is being teased. That’ll help answer your questions, or at least give you better questions to ask.

https://paizo.com/community/forums/starfinder/secondEditionPlaytest

Well this was a product of reading another thread talking about this issue on this same forum. I’ve also read the play test stuff and all signs point to there being at the very least a common set of rules between the two.

Incidentally, saying that you aren’t being condescending, and then implying that a question intended to provoke discussion is a dumb question to ask at all honestly comes off as disingenuous.

So as it seems that Starfinder 2e is going to be fully compatible with Pathfinder 2e (our wishes for a 2e tech guide/distant worlds book seem to have been granted in a way), I wanted to discuss how the combination of classes will work.

For example, the Starfinder 1e Soldier and Operative classes were basically ""fighter and rogue in space"". How would you handle the differences, if any, in your home games?

To put up a somewhat more complex example, the Mechanic and Biohacker classes of Starfinder 1e greatly parallel the Inventor and Alchemist classes of Pathfinder 2e. Do you feel these overlap too much in terms of their niches?

Finally, on the spellcasting/magic classes, how would you handle PF2e Cleric and Wizard and other such caster classes in with Starfinder Mystic, Technomancer, etc.? Lorewise, how do you justify any differences in casting and spells?

All helpful and insightful discussion is encouraged.

Can I ask what you think PF2 is missing to execute on this idea? It feels like you've got nearly every piece already.

I'm not expecting PF2 itself to fill in anything since it's overall meant to be a ""standard"" fantasy setting.

I think Starfinder (the 2e of which seems to be compatible with PF2) is what's problematic, which is why I accepted the advice given by some posters here, and plan to homebrew my own stuff.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

If anything, Starfinder 2e sharing a ruleset with PF2 is going to make building these kinds of stories much much easier. It'll just be a question of what does/doesn't belong in Sword and Planet stuff.

But if you want something for your PF2 Sword and Planet that SF2 will not provide, it seems unlikely that you will get it soon. For the exact same reason you state.

Yeah I suppose I'll homebrew in my own stuff, since Starfinder has left me disappointed.

NerdOver9000 wrote:

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"

It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.

That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...

I mean, there was a Society special about jumping between the two fairly recently, so it's not completely off the table officially...

A link to the source pls?

Paul Watson wrote:

Age of Ashes didn't. It travelled all over the locality but not off-world, but The Seventh Arch has part of it set on Castrovel and Doorway to the Red Star partially takes place on Akiton.

I don't recall any other planet hopping in 2E

Hopefully that changes. There's tons of potential.

Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"

It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.

That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...

I recall there was a push for, if we get a ""tech guide"", for it to be a multiple time periods support thing instead of just a gear list basically.

In my opinion Starfinder isn't science fiction at all, it's space fantasy

I agree, but I also think it just really doesn't work for me, having read through several of its books and adventures. I suppose, to me, it's a combo of just feeling really unfinished and being really restrictive and confusing.

Doesn’t an Age of Ashes books visit one of the other planets?

I agree that the tone of Starfinder is much different, and I would rather have a dark fantasy setting with sci-fi elements sprinkled in than a straight up science fiction and added swords.

Could not say anything about Age of Ashes, unless someone else wants to clarify this specific point.

I would argue that it's basically space fantasy, and that your example describes a different setting much better (ie something like W40k lol, which I'm incidentally also working on working into my setting), but it's because of feeling really undeveloped and restricting at the same time that really causes me to dislike it.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Having said that, any opinions/ideas about the main topic of the post?

I have not read Legendary Planet 3pp AP or Distant Worlds for 1e. I also don't have enough time for creating a custom setting.

My thoughts on the matter are:

* I enjoyed the Starfinder setting. But I can see how that setting may not match what you are trying to build.
* Lore and setting is separated from mechanics. In the Pathfinder2e rulebooks the two are presented together and somewhat linked, but unlinking the two and re-theming the classes, feats, and items is not terribly difficult. Setting is even easier to unlink. The setting books from previous editions, such as Distant Worlds, can have the lore and narrative borrowed from them and imported into a PF2 game without much difficulty at all.
* I agree with Captain Morgan that Starfinder2e is going to be fantastic for your game mechanics needs. Even if you don't use the setting of that game, having the ancestries, classes, starships and other interplanetary transport mechanics, items, and weapons available will be very useful.

And I feel like this is what several other people have already said. So while it may not be the answer that you wanted, it is certainly the answer that we are able to give. And it may be a more helpful and correct answer than you are expecting.

I think this is a pretty decent answer considering what we have and can expect from Paizo. I'm personally planning to take advantage of your second point to incorporate a bunch of stuff from my own scifi media collection for worldbuilding.

Captain Morgan wrote:

D3stro 2119 wrote:

edit: to note, I know Starfinder exists, but a. I personally dislike it since it simply doesn't work for me and b. it doesn't really fit the tone of the original scifi stuff in Pathfinder that I'm discussing in the post.

I'm not sure what "simply doesn't work for me" means but are you aware that Starfinder 2e will use the Pathfinder 2e ruleset and will be cross compatible? Because the playtest for that seems like it would cover the mechanical aspects of interstellar travel. But I haven't touched it personally.

I would assume "work" is also in reference to tone and general vibes don't appeal to D3stro, which would follow with the opinion that it doesn't fit the tone of Pathfinder's sci-fi. I'm imagining a lot of this is a preference for fantasy with sci-fi elements rather than sci-fi with fantasy elements.

It's not really that; more a dislike of the execution of it in Starfinder.

Having said that, any opinions/ideas about the main topic of the post?

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.

Even you know ORC is compatible?

But gap reminder is needed for it.

Not picking up what you're putting down I'm afraid.

So recently I've been paging through the Legendary Planet 3pp AP, as well as the 1e Distant Worlds book, everything about Numeria and its AP, and 2e's Doorway to the Red Star adventure, and I was wondering about writing up adventures and settings for ""sword and planet/sword and stars""-type adventures in Pathfinder.

I have always been very intrigued by the idea of interplanetary adventures in Pathfinder, and have always liked the inclusion of elements from scifi in the fantasy world of Golarion (and in fact in fantasy in general). For example, I've always been fascinated by the idea of ""naturalized"" alien races in fantasy worlds, and elves in Pathfinder are literally aliens from another planet! You can play a space alien right out of the corebook! This isn't even counting the plethora of ""construct"" ancestries in 2e.

In addition, the fact that Golarion is greatly post-apocalyptic helps as well, since there is the idea of fledgling societies forming around the ruins of the past in Golarion which I feel is conducive to the inclusion of weird and otherworldly pulp elements. Also, more specifically, Golarion has the status of being the Cage for Rovagug, which I feel is a great plot point for ""sword and planet"" type campaigns.

In these ways, I've been working on worldbuilding setting elements for such adventures. Currently, I'm working on a city set on a fantasy world in my personal setting that will be a major port for interworld adventure and such.

I'm very curious to hear what you all think about this. What are your general thoughts on the topic? Have you tried to include these aspects in your game?

edit: to note, I know Starfinder exists, but a. I personally dislike it since it simply doesn't work for me and b. it doesn't really fit the tone of the original scifi stuff in Pathfinder that I'm discussing in the post.

So recently I've been paging through the Legendary Planet 3pp AP, as well as the 1e Distant Worlds book, everything about Numeria and its AP, and 2e's Doorway to the Red Star adventure, and I was wondering about writing up adventures and settings for ""sword and planet/sword and stars""-type adventures in Pathfinder.

I have always been very intrigued by the idea of interplanetary adventures in Pathfinder, and have always liked the inclusion of elements from scifi in the fantasy world of Golarion (and in fact in fantasy in general). For example, I've always been fascinated by the idea of ""naturalized"" alien races in fantasy worlds, and elves in Pathfinder are literally aliens from another planet! You can play a space alien right out of the corebook! This isn't even counting the plethora of ""construct"" ancestries in 2e.

In addition, the fact that Golarion is greatly post-apocalyptic helps as well, since there is the idea of fledgling societies forming around the ruins of the past in Golarion which I feel is conducive to the inclusion of weird and otherworldly pulp elements. Also, more specifically, Golarion has the status of being the Cage for Rovagug, which I feel is a great plot point for ""sword and planet"" type campaigns.

In these ways, I've been working on worldbuilding setting elements for such adventures. Currently, I'm working on a city set on a fantasy world in my personal setting that will be a major port for interworld adventure and such.

I'm very curious to hear what you all think about this. What are your general thoughts on the topic? Have you tried to include these aspects in your game?

edit: to note, I know Starfinder exists, but a. I personally dislike it since it simply doesn't work for me and b. it doesn't really fit the tone of the original scifi stuff in Pathfinder that I'm discussing in the post.

Still holding out for the PF 2e tech guide/distant worlds analogues.

Arkat wrote:

Boomerang Nebula wrote:

I just checked: page 70 of Planar Adventures states that demigods have stat blocks and deities are “beyond the concept of rules”.

That’s a real cop out if you ask me.

Sure, no stats for Pharasma, Sarenrae, or ant other really old and well-established true deities.

I get that.

But I’m not talking about one of those true gods.

I’m talking about a Demigod who is either on the very cusp of attaining true godhood or who achieved it split seconds before being confronted by the PCs and he hasn’t grasped his full abilities yet.

Fair enough, but that's the game design point: true deities become stat-less and beyond PC reach without GM design. They don't need to "get used to their new power," because time is meaningless to them or they just get divine revelation, or whatever, whatever... ineffable.

Senko's suggestions are good starting points. Giving boosts to the given stats as it nears ascension or providing pathways to knock him back down into stats are your best approaches.

I would suggest Protection domain as the extra, since the original mythology suggests Pazuzu as an apotropaic demon who drive out evil winds.

Frankly this seems rather counter to the game's in world lore. In fact the very idea that all deities ought to be omnipotent beings of plot device (at least in terms of how you seem to emphasize here, that ""time is menaingless"", ""ieffable or whatever whatever"") is pretty heavily contradicted by game's own lore.

The DnD 3.5/4e take on it is probably more accurate to what the op wants to represent, to give a actual answer.

snip

Oh ok. I'm genuinely still confused about why it would be set so far in the past when every other AP was set around a decade of each other, especially since it all seems very isolated in a single small area, but it seems I'll have to wait until all the books are released so I can buy them to make any sense of that.

So excuse me if there's some big twist in a later book that clears up all my issues, but what is the deal with the game's date (is it a different calendar form the Inner Sea one?) and the time period being 100 years before even the 1e APs?

The latter especially confuses me. What is the point of this? This is a four parter that takes place in an isolated region of the world that seems to have nothing to do with the other APs. Why could it not be set in the game's ""present date""?

(minor art confusion as well-- how could Yoon, a child in the time of 1e, be portrayed as a PC in Season of Ghosts as an adult?)

I just checked: page 70 of Planar Adventures states that demigods have stat blocks and deities are “beyond the concept of rules”.

Maybe it's my experience with Exlated, Scion rpg, DnD 4e and comics like Marvel and DC talking, but frankly I rather dislike the portrayal of deities as limitless and omnipotent creatures of plot device-- ""beyond the concept of rules"" honestly just sounds really awkward and edgy/confrontational, almost like a middle finger to people who do want to use deities more directly in their games.

ps: as a side note, it especially rankles me to see the likes of Cayden Cailean, a low-mid level fighting man, become orders of magnitude more powerful than the strongest Empyreal Lords and Archdevils by accident.

To get back on this topic, when I talked about the ""stone age milieu"" I didn't actually mean needing to make up a ""distant past Golarion"" (most fantasy settings are pretty wonky with this sort of thing anyways). I was more meaning making up a ""mini-setting"" of a sorts so to speak, maybe in a demiplane or something.

I think Starfinder is a very bad rpg and would not really want to use it for anything, tbh.

In terms of what I think is likely (which coincidentally is something I actually would want) is more stuff on Casmaron, since its a big part of the world's setting that has received practically no support.

If we do go to Casmaron, which region would we want to visit first? If we get 2e Mythic, a visit to Ibyldos is suddenly very possible.

Qadira is the obvious choice, since we already have a setting book for that place. But actually doing something in the Padishah areas would be really cool.

D3stro 2119 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Wrong thread?

Oof, misread the title.

Then, I really want to see more APs that emphasize different time periods (ie the stone age one, and thus maybe a more "high scifi" one), or "interworld adventures". That is, the AP doesn't need them to be the topic of the whole AP, but just including them.

What would you want from a Stone Age AP that wasn’t done in Quest for the Frozen Flame? I’m super curious.

Well this is just an example but Frozen Flame takes place in a ice age milieu, which sort of limits things. Like maybe some kind of "Lost/Savage World" setting might be cool, with Neolithic/Bronze Age themes.

However, a specific big want is a Casmaron AP, since afaik we have gotten approximately zero adventures in this area, and the place seems too important to ignore.

Wrong thread?

Oof, misread the title.

Then, I really want to see more APs that emphasize different time periods (ie the stone age one, and thus maybe a more "high scifi" one), or "interworld adventures". That is, the AP doesn't need them to be the topic of the whole AP, but just including them.

Most of my base problems come from the system itself, but I suppose that is a different topic.

Specifically, I want to see more guns and tech (including magitech) outside of the "theme park zones" (ie not just "more Numeria" or "more Alkenstar"). I would want to see guns being "core handbook weapons" Also, implementing at least a late 19th/early 20th century level of guns and such would not be a problem for me, considering it would clear up a lot of problems with needing to compensate for a inherently bad weapon (like in 1e) and allow for more options and possibilities.

And on the topic of "more tech" I don't necessarily mean "more Numeria," I mean maybe more "Golarion setting" tech as well (and not just "steampunk" which is overused at this point).

One thing I'm getting from this is that you're presumably unaware of is that while it's a bit of a spoiler, some planets outside Golarion have been explored in APs for 2e and have official setting gazeteers. They're brief and not of the scale you'd see in an official 2e book on the planet or even Golarion's solar system as a whole, but they exist and you don't mention them once here.

** spoiler omitted **

I actually have read that, and actually kind of mentioned some of what I saw in that book in this post (even if I was reticent to actually explicitly say it).

Btw I have do not have access to Gatewalkers. Maybe I will get that.

Note that this post is meant not only to be a more agnostic take on the place (considering we still have very little info it) but also to expand it.

So this is my first attempt at writing up alternate/more comprehensive takes on the different worlds in the "Golarion solar system". Specifically, this is my take on Akiton, in which I hopefully retain the thematic elements that made the place fun while also expanding the possibilities available in the place.

Basic Overview
In terms of basic "planetary stats", Akiton is notably smaller than Golarion. The differences resulting from this will likely not be an incredible thing to note, but might possibly be grounds for the need to make saves for adaptation (not considering magic or other means), as well as a possible source of flavor.

In terms of technology as well as general aesthetic, as noted in the most recent published piece of info about Akiton, the conditions of Akiton have contributed to the increase in development of machinery (as well as firearms) but have resulted in the planet having notably less comforts and luxuries even compared to more ""primitive"" civilizations. Combined with the fact that much of Akitonian life seems based on city-states, I think Akiton would generally have a highly industrial aesthetic, while also having an air of austerity (that is broken up by the vibrant marketplaces, the elegant retreats and abodes of the affluent and famous, and the city-state sponsored festivals).

One large aspect I would like to add to Akiton, however, would be the introduction of canals. Canals around the planet would allow for larger communities to spring up around the major canals, and give focus to the contrast between civilization and barbarity on this relatively desolate planet.

Also, many timespans have been reduced in this version, since some of them are just too long.

Akitonian Races
The major races of Akiton are primarily composed of humans, lizardfolk, ratfolk, and shobhad, with other races being minorities. Humans on Akiton have two major ethnicities-- the red-skinned natives of the planet, and the Azlanti immigrants from Golarion. The Azlanti on Akiton have rule over several city-states, some of which are along canals, and hope to form what might be the first unified empire on Akiton in a long while. Many native Akitonian humans also live in Azlanti ruled areas, however, possibly even more live in unaligned city-states or in tribal barbarity. The ysoki and shobhad are divided between cities and the wilderness, while the lizardfolk almost exclusively dwell in the wilds.

Akitonian Equipment
On Akiton, "advanced" firearms are considered commonplace. Revolvers of varying caliber and capacity (ranging from 6-8 rounds) are the preeminent sidearm on Akiton, with semi-automatic pistols on the rise. "Bolt-action" chambered rifles and repeaters are also highly common firearms on Akiton, with innovations in railgun technology pioneered by Akitonian humans (and highly preferred by Shobhad) in usage and continuing development. Due to the emphasis on preservation of materials on Akiton, automatic weaponry is not much in vogue, although rapid-fire cannons on airships and skimmerships are becoming more common.

Vehicles and some weapons on Akiton are powered by thasteron, a mineral fuel that can assume the form of a liquid or a solid depending on how it is refined. Thasteron is most commonly used to fuel vehicles, ranging from one-person sand racers to civilian vehicles to skyships. These vehicles integrate technomagical engines and have translucent crystal plates where wheels would be on a mundane car or carriage, which, combined with the energy of thasteron, allows them to hover above the ground. This same "hover" technology is also being experimented in being incorporated into both smaller and larger objects, such as smaller constructs and buildings.

Less common, though still just as important as the previously mentioned are innovations in construct creation. The origin of construct creation on Akiton can most easily be traced to the arrival of the Azlanti on the planet, and their knowledge of clockwork constructs. Since then, innovations have contributed to a new breed of construct called "robots." These robots are often clunky in construction, but have the capability to follow commands more efficiently, as well as hold more potential for upgrade (think Silver age/Golden age comics for what they look like generally). While out of the reach of common citizens of Akiton, robots can be found guarding the residences of the affluent in most city-states of Akiton, not counting the ones produced by enterprising independent scientists.

Finally, the numerous gadgets, gizmos, potions and other such sundry devices hammered together by the scientists/wizards/assorted intellegentia of Akiton find their ways into its markets as well, resulting in situations in which a set of experimental "power armor" could possibly share shelf space with a "shrink ray" and a crate of healing potions.
Setting Notes
In general, this version of Akiton is meant to evoke a slightly more "modern" take on the ""sword and planet"" version of Mars in pulp fiction. Accordingly, Akiton is divided between the gilded glamour of the city-states and the wilds of the places between. Locations on the "seas" may also exist due to the canals. PCs may find themselves alternately ambushing a gang meeting in a city-state, rushing through the deserts of Akiton on a thasteron-fueled vehicle, or battling a mad scientists' robotic armies.

Note that this version of Akiton still generally strives to be "agnostic" insofar as it relates to current published "Golarion setting" works. Feel free to expand on it or adapt it to your personal setting (I certainly have).

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except [REDACTED]. I've always got a little room in my heart for [REDACTED]. Who doesn't?

Something I'd like to see more of and Golarion'd be a great place to do it would be cosmic horrors who aren't hostile to normal beings, just indifferent or maybe even outright LIKE the small insignificant and very fragile creatures, kind of like how entomologists can gush for hours on the cuteness of whatever their favorite bug is.

Fwiw I've heard some serious takes that Desna is some kind of "benevolent Outer God". Between the domains and the non-humanoid "standard appearance" so to speak that theory actually holds some water.

I see that take a lot, but I don't think I've ever seen where it actually came from. I think I've seen a refutation but I don't remember if that was the thing.

If I understand correctly, Desna's original form might have been something like a giant butterfly entity made of moonlight, much like how Sarenrae was a beam of golden light. Before humans, elves, or even angels existed, they had different forms from the ones they do now, but now they're more likely to appear in this form.

It seems like the strange biology, the ancientness, and the assumption of a Form You're Comfortable With have probably run off with the usual exaggeration that normally comes with describing cosmic horrors and outer gods, but maybe there's something more specific and concrete that I haven't heard of.

Not that I would turn down somebody who really liked the idea and wanted to make that a reality in their home game. Sounds pretty sweet, honestly.

Hey I have no problem with either interpretation, considering I've already done a lot of revisions to "the gods" anyways.

The fact that Golarion Elves are aliens puts me to mind of one of my favorite fantasy comics series "Elfquest".

Fwiw I feel the "fantasy" part of the "Golarion" setting is important too.

I mean, we just got a shiny new gazetteer of Castrovel, and Akiton got a 2e writeup before that; I'm dying to romp around the Green Planet, especially if I can get entangled in Lashunta and Formian intrigues! Both are Ancestries I'd love to have playable again, and both have cultures that feel distinctly alien from Golarion, while still working in a sword-and-sorcery mold.

One of my dream 2e projects would be an Iron Gods sequel AP, dealing with uniting the nation, seeing Casandalee's faith rise, and defending Numeria from a Dominion of the Black invasion. I hope it happens in some form someday.

Speaking of that, I think the recent portrayal of Akiton in a certain AP is pretty neat, and conducive to "scifi themes."

I personally would retune some things around the portrayal and implementation of certain elements (although tbh this is all more a flaw of the base system than anything else) as well as the setting itself, but things like the new vehicles and weapons are real neat despite the aforementioned problems.

Also, I have guns (including "advanced" guns, so to speak) and the like be common on Akiton.

Ps: Also, gazetteer of Castrovel? Could you tell me where, please?

My internal logic for so many fantasy settings being humanocentric, was expressed by Ambassador Delenn on "Babylon 5": Humans share one unique quality. They build communities. If the Narns or the Centauri or any other race built a station like this, it would be used only by their own people, but everywhere humans go, they create communities out of diverse and sometimes hostile populations. It is a great gift and a terrible responsibility, one that cannot be abandoned."

-- Delenn in Babylon 5:"And Now For a Word"

Tbh that's more of a reason to have humans in a lot of communities, and less "humanocentrism --even the most cosmopolitan areas are 80+% human".

If anything there is more reason to have mixed, cosmopolitan places.

keftiu wrote:

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except [REDACTED]. I've always got a little room in my heart for [REDACTED]. Who doesn't?

Something I'd like to see more of and Golarion'd be a great place to do it would be cosmic horrors who aren't hostile to normal beings, just indifferent or maybe even outright LIKE the small insignificant and very fragile creatures, kind of like how entomologists can gush for hours on the cuteness of whatever their favorite bug is.

Fwiw I've heard some serious takes that Desna is some kind of "benevolent Outer God". Between the domains and the non-humanoid "standard appearance" so to speak that theory actually holds some water.

I mean, we just got a shiny new gazetteer of Castrovel, and Akiton got a 2e writeup before that; I'm dying to romp around the Green Planet, especially if I can get entangled in Lashunta and Formian intrigues! Both are Ancestries I'd love to have playable again, and both have cultures that feel distinctly alien from Golarion, while still working in a sword-and-sorcery mold.

One of my dream 2e projects would be an Iron Gods sequel AP, dealing with uniting the nation, seeing Casandalee's faith rise, and defending Numeria from a Dominion of the Black invasion. I hope it happens in some form someday.

Apart from already published stuff, what specific ideas would you want to pitch? They don't necessarily need to "fit" in the "Golarion canon".

For example, one idea for an interdimensional adventure might be the PCs are contracted by a mysterious patron for work, only to discover the patron is a demon operating out of a metropolis in the Abyss, and they have to work for him, simultaneously acclimating to their surroundings as well as finding a way to conclude their contract.