Your Top 5 Archetypes

Prerelease Discussion

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Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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I'm curious.

If you were in charge of Pathfinder, based on what you've read in any official source and what you've seen at your game table, what FIVE archetypes would you make sure to include in the first year of Pathfinder Second Edition?

Please list the name of the archetype and the base class it modifies. Feel free to tell me why.

It's ok if you don't like the way that concept is currently implemented. Just your top 5 in concept if not always in execution. Or maybe there's a mechanical element you like--that's cool too.

Assume for now that we're talking about archetypes that modify the base 11 classes in Pathfinder First Edition, plus the alchemist.

Thanks much for your time and consideration! I'm thinking about this stuff today, and I thought it might be fun for you to think about it at the same time!

Silver Crusade

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Dawnflower Dervish (Bard): My halfling Dawnflower Dervish is my favourite character. Love the concept, and it works properly from 1st level.

Not one of the base 11 classes:
Empiricist (Investigator): Sherlock Holmes!

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A few that I'd love to play in PF2:

Archaeologist (or some similar "Bard that doesn't perform" Archetype)
Aldori Defender (or some similar Aldori Swordlord related Archetype)
Lore Warden (or some similar "smart Fighter" related Archetype)
Knife Master (please make a dagger wielding Rogue good)
Gray Paladin (unless Paladins don't have the LG restriction)

Here's my list:

- Sword-Devil (Worldscape, Modifies Ranger); excellent pulpy feel
- Urban Ranger (APG, modifies Ranger); makes a class fit into an area some might not take the class
- Counterfeit Mage (ACG, modifies Rogue); "spellcasting" rogues are fun
- Oathbound Paladin (UM, modifies Paladin); strengthens the paladin's code
- Seasoned Commander (VC, modifies Fighter); creates a grizzled veteran character from the fighter class

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My first thought on reading the thread title was to list things like Sha'ir and Id Rager, not for what they can do, but for what they represent, as archetypes that massively reshaped the way the class's core principles, but when it comes to archetypes of the core classes....

1) Monk - Serpentfire Adept
One thing that's always stood out to me about monk in pathfinder is that, while the original core class was weak, the variety of archetypes that it played with without damaging the "what it means to be a monk" that's expressed not just in the original class features, but explored through these new archetype features. I had a hard time just picking one, so I went with one that's not spectacular, but one I want to see a new and improved shot at.

2 Alchemist - Promethean Alchemist or Homunculist
An Alchemist that can create a servant from alchemy or industrial know how. It's something I find particularly endearing and appropriate for an alchemist.

3 Paladin - Tortured Crusader
Not much to really say for this one... I just like it

4 Barbarian - Mooncursed
A warrior with primal rage and fury, bathed in moonlight, suddenly growing fangs, claws and their own fresh coat of fur, it's an archetype that brings out the most bestial aspects of rage.

5 Bard - Arcane Duelist
This archetype is a true classic, one that trades away suggestion and the skill focused nature of the Bard for a bit more magical flavour, who mixes magic into their bladework.

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Narrowing it to core certainly limits some of my preferences; my favorites tend to be either base or occult classes. However! My favorite five among the base 11+alchemist, in no particular order:

Nature Fang (Druid)
Wild Shape can be very clunky at times, and often a headache to manage if you want multiple forms. On top of that, shapeshifting to be decent at combat may not at all fit one's concept. This archetype is amazing because it subs out the shapeshifting for combat potency with ways to be effective in combat regardless.

Scout (Rogue)
Being rewarded to stay mobile is great. The advantage of being able to maintain your key source of damage even while darting around the battle is very useful. Furthermore, the flavor is excellent at capturing the essence of somebody who's not fighting head-on, but isn't a skulk.

Virtuous Bravo (Paladin)
Not all knights in shining armor are knights... or wearing armor, at that! Virtuous Bravo turns what it means to be a paladin on its head, letting you be one who darts into battle nimbly and skillfully in your eternal pursuit of removing evil from the land.

Zen Archer (Monk)
The use of a bow, the careful precision of one's arrow, the training and mastery in mastering your form; the use of bows in monk training has always felt right to me. While the archetype's mechanics have certainly verged on the overly powerful, with a little rebalancing one can allow the monk to build themselves around ranged combat, for honing their mind rather than only their body.

Chirurgeon (Alchemist)
Not all get into medicine to harm. Being able to heal with one's concoctions is a critical calling of many an alchemist, and the ability to apply salves to wounds or otherwise ensure your community or friends are safe from harm has always been what being an alchemist was to me.

Liberty's Edge

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I love you for asking this question!

#1: Tortured Crusader Paladin - More skill proficiencies, contingent Lay on Hands, awesome flavour, a wisdom focus and the old Oath of Vengeance to boot. Amazing archetpye. If anything from my list, this!

#2: Cardinal Cleric - It was low-balled in power but I absolutely want to see a talented cleric as well as a fighty cleric. Priests are sociable and clerics always have professions in Golarion fluff that I lacked points for!!

#3: Spell Sage Wizard - The possibilities with this archetype are insane, oh my god. This archetype is amazing fun for creative players and can help round off party roles where needed.

#4: Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue - I shouldn't need to explain this one. Rogue and Wizard are a really fun pair of classes to put together, and makes a great place to put the old arcane trickster abilities.

#5: Dandy Ranger - An arcane, charismatic martial with emphasis on social skills, and it has really different flavour from the bloodrager. Factions as a favoured enemy is great, too.

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Apologies for breadth per entry, but they are thematically linked:
1. Urban Anything: Ranger, Druid, Barbarian; masters of city life
2. Battle Bards: Skald, Arcane Duelist, Dawnflower Dervish
3. Spiritual Monks: Ki Mystic, Qinggong, Sensei, Flowing Monk
4. Elemental Wizards: From APG, plus wood, metal, etc.
5. Crossblooded Sorcerer: Love the thematic combinations!

ETA: Ooh, ooh! Forgot Nature's Fang. Really love Druid spells, but dislike Wild Shape (and the too powerful Animal Companions for that matter.)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Not one of the Core Classes:
I have loved the Spirit Guide Oracle — The concept that you have different spirits following you that you can bond with. I made a play-by-post character who was haunted by the spirits of her ancestors, all of whom were crazy. It was great.

Yeah, I know that oracles are not one of the 11 base classes. But I loved the feel of this one.

★ --- ★ --- ★ --- ★

1) Okay, here’s one from the core classes that I would love to see: the Winged Marauder goblin alchemist archetype, only open it up to other races. You have goblins, and you have alchemists right in core. I loved the winged marauder because it was a well written archetype. It offered ride and handle animal animal as skills, and had a flavorful idea. That goblins would love to fly around on big animals and throw their bombs or alchemist fires about.

I have a special fondness for this one, as Twitchy the goblin was my first ever Play by Post character.

★ --- ★ --- ★ --- ★

To me in general the best archetypes were those that offered up a whole different way of playing a class. I think that is what you most want to look for is archetypes that offer something up that the main class might never have otherwise.

2) The Gray Paladin — The execution of this one was disappointing. But there needs to be a non-LG holy warrior in Pathfinder. I would love to see a way that Paladins of Cayden could be opened up, for example. Maybe this could be done (gasp!) without requiring an archetype, having new choices baked into the Paladin class.

3) Evangelist Cleric — A cleric that inspired its team and took care of it. Flavorful and fitting.

4) Tinkerer Alchemist — Get in gear!


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Easy one for me is Titan Mauler Barbarians. Execution was completely naff, but cmon, it's basically the prime vector for getting as close to a Guts build as possible and that makes it aces for me (similar to Living Grim Inqs are aces for letting you be Lord Mozgus).

Next you can add stuff Virtuous Bravo Paladins (literal dashing swordsman archtype), Archaeologist Bards (that belongs in a museum! plus its the best executed selfish bard archtype to me), Quiggong Monks (For actually letting you do Hadukens among other things), and lastly Trapper Rangers since while execution was awful, it really did tie together the premise of a master hunter to me by rigging an area with traps beforehand.

1- Street Performer Bard, but I don't like the execution. But like the concept of a bard that is not a knowledge-lord, but more humble and streetwise instead.

2- Aldori Swordlord Fighter - Way better than the Prestige! It gives easy and early access to the cool Aldori sword and all the insane feats surrounding that style. Also Golarion!

3- Elder Mythos Cultist Cleric. CHA Cleric hype! Wish it was a bit more wide so could do it for Demon Lords (with similar logic).

4- Any of the ranger ones that get rid of Favored Terrain and Favored Enemy. So like Fortune Finder! Those 2 abilities are just a mess.

5- Not quite an Archetype, but "Ninja" variation of Rogue. Ninjas are the coolest of the cool, enough said!

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1. Gray Paladin (Paladin)
Gives the class otherwise-less-achieveable flexibility within reason for those who want it and some specific character types, without altering the concept. Although I'd like it to be a bit less of a cost.

2. Eldritch Scoundrel (Rogue)
Sneaky tricksy spellcasters are a nice, standard thing.

3. Crossblooded Sorcerer (Sorcerer)
I don't know what's planned with the class, but this is something that will always be relevant and interesting in terms of concept.

4. Cloistered Cleric (Cleric)
The idea of a bookish, learned monk is, again, standard and something the game should have as a base option.

5. Pact Wizard (Wizard)
I like the means of adding a more philosophical element to the class, as well as the old idea of gaining magic through dark bargains.

(although if it was actually just my top 5 favorite archetypes, and not which ones I think should be published early on, somewhat different list: Gray Paladin, Sacred Servant (paladin), Tortured Crusader (paladin), Sword of Valor (paladin), Chosen One (paladin)... yeah, my favorite core class is probably obvious.)

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seconding the Archaeologist Bard as an exemplar of non-performance based Bard. I'd also love to see a functional version of the Sound Striker who can eschew weapons entirely to effectively fight by screaming at people.

Qingong is the best Monk Archetype, but it sounds to me like the customization it offers will be baked into the base class (and, indeed, all classes), so instead I'll nominate Drunken Master--and make sure they can be Chaotic, if you're not already nixing alignment restrictions for monks in the first place.

I really dig the Mooncursed Barbarian and similar Barbarian archetypes where Rage effects physical transformation. And if Amiri is still wielding an over-massive sword, Titan Mauler should probably be core!

Child of Acvana and Amezzen or however it's spelled. Has crazy flavor and unique for being the way to get a Magical Fighter without the silly EK Prestige. Arcane strike craziness!

Zen Archer!

More seriously, evangelist (cleric), Cloistered Cleric, archivist (bard), archaologist (bard), and the bellflower one for rogue.

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Asmodean Advocate (cleric) is also a lot of fun. Really I'd be happy picking a handful from each class, but I can't think of a great many at the moment.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Alchemist: Tinkerer; Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Intrigue

Bard: Archaeologist; APG

Sorcerer: Wildblooded; APG

Rogue: Scout; APG

Fighter Seasoned Commander; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Villain Codex

1. Archeologist (Bard) - Any bard that I can have in my game without giving my setting a silly feel is a plus to me.

2. Reincarnation Druid (Druid) - Being an eternally reincarnating living part of nature is such a cool concept for a character.

3. Scrollmaster (Wizard) - It's a cool visual to be fighting with scrolls as weapon and shield, though I do wish it was a magus archetype instead of a wizard one since it doesn't really fit the type of character I'd want to see from a full-caster. Flavour might fit better as a Monk archetype.

4. Spellsage (Wizard) - I like wizard actually studying magic rather than just being "Sorcerers but through study", and this archetype really gives the player the feel that they're researching all sorts of things.

5. Flesheater (Barbarian) - It's really cool to be able to play mythic-styled character that gains powers by feasting upon legendary beasts and horrors.

Exemplar Brawler: Inspiring front liner. I am awaiting the fighter archetype that can bard (or I've missed it and it should be on this list). Not one of the core 11, but consider this a sub for the fighter.

Drill Sergeant (Fighter): teamwork feats! (I'm un-apologetically a fan)

Skirmisher (ranger): Sometimes you want a ranger without spells, also moves a bit of the focus back to the animal companion, which is never a bad thing (Make boon companion core if the rangers AC is still hindered /aside).

Master of Many Styles (monk): Bruce Lee - adapt and use different fighting styles, seamlessly melded!

Planar Sneak (Rogue): I wish it also had more ways to mitigate hostile environments/survive on the planes beyond the save vs effects and/or move between the planes.

1) Eldritch Scoundrel. I'd make it a core class (with the Bard as an archetype) if I could.
2) Eldritch Scion. Fills in another fundamental concept.
3) Tortured Crusader. A lot to like about this one, mostly mentioned above.
4) Oozemorph. The implementation of the Shifter, obviously, left a lot to be desired, as did the implementation of the Oozemorph itself. The concept, however, is solid (well, oozy) gold. Make it its own class if that's what you need to do it justice.
5) Bladebound. I guess I don't need an archetype to roleplay a guy and his creepy magic sword best friend, but I guess I wouldn't refuse an archetype to go along with it, either.

What I've really been hoping for since I heard that archetypes weren't class-specific, though, is a chance to add major class features to any other class - all of the major spellcasting varieties plus shapeshifting would be at the top of that list for me.

edit, since I can't read: Sacred Servant paladin (both for the power boost and the additional axis of variation), Cloistered Cleric, Lore Warden, though I think of all of those as directions I'd like to see those classes move in in general, rather than especially specific concepts, so I don't know if those are appropriate answers either

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1) Phantom Thief (Rogue)- even more so than in PF1, trading sneak attack and trapfinding for "you are amazing at skills" would be great fun, and "Gentle(wo)man thief" is such a classic type.

2) Scaled Fist (Monk)- the charismatic martial artist is so iconic in cinema, at least, and dragons are cool and very monkish.

3) Lore Warden (Fighter) - or some wily veteran fighter which focuses on out-thinking, out-6planning, and out-maneuvering more than overpowering.

4) Vindictive Bastard or Grey Paladin (Paladin) - An archetype for Paladins who are a lot muddier or less virtuous is a much better solution than "Paladins of any alignment"

5) Thundercaller (Bard) - "I rock so hard I control the weather" is just the coolest thing. Honorable mention to the Stormwalker Ranger for similar reasons.

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1) Arcane Duelist (Bard). I think this is the true beginning of the swashbuckler, at least a magical one. It makes for a very different bard, one without the knowledge focus, but instead a bard that focuses on one aspect of the class, the combat side. It's decent, not overpowering, overall, a fun archetype and a role model I believe for archetype design.

2) Lore Warden (fighter). A more skill-based warrior, fighting not just with his mastery of arms but also with his brain.

3) Oathbound paladin (paladin). Paladins cause headaches all the time. But having an archetype that can help codify what the class is meant to do in both a metaphysical manner as well as on the table yet manages to get to the core of the class. It's harder to argue whether the paladin's doing his job when he has an oath to fulfill than it is to argue about falling due to alignment. Really, should probably replace the paladin's alignment restriction with this.

4)Martial artist (monk). Really, a lot of the monk archetypes could take a spot here. The PF1 monk has a wide variety of abilities which don't synergize well. This is just one archetype for the monk that starts to pull them apart and put them together so they start to fit into one role. The same can be said of many others, like the sensei, sohei, ki mystic, or zen archer.

5) Cloistered cleric (cleric). One of the most popular requests of many players (including myself) is for a divine spellcaster that isn't an armored warrior like the paladin, warpriest, or inquisitor. The man of the cloth. The design space of PF1 is overflowing with warrior-priests (did I neglect to mention oracles of various mysteries, druids, and rangers? silly me), but not viable divine spellcasters who get by with their spells and divine powers. The PF1 archetype was frankly a step in the wrong direction. The Unearthed Arcana version of 3.5 was about right. Now's the chance to do better. It's understood that the cleric doesn't have a lot of tools in the toolbox for making new archetypes in PF1. But this is PF2. Time to make this happen. There are already ideas here on the forums for how to modify clerical spellcasting for the future that might free up some room to make the better cleric and hopefully the better man of the cloth too. That's why I mentioned this last. That, and it's my favorite and probably the most requested archetype in history.

Thanks for asking what we want Eric. Helps to have open communication as we all roll forward into the future!

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Wizard: Seige Master

Fighter: Cad

Monk: Four Winds

Alchemist: Rage Chemist

Fighter: Eldritch Knight (proper Gish)

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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Eldritch Scoundrel, Rogue
Brazen Deceiver, Bard
Sanctified Slayer, Inquisitor
Fey Trickster, Mesmerist
Gun Chemist, Alchemist

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I enjoy the ones that completely change how the base class plays.
Swarm monger(druid)
Elemental ally(druid)
Virtuous bravo(paladin)

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1. Dragon Disciple - First and Foremost, I'd probably make Dragon Disciple into an Archetype instead of a Prestige. If Archetypes can modify any class, it makes sense to have an archetype that can trade out class features for being more of a dragon.

2. Tattooed Sorcerer - (Sorcerer) Tattooed Sorcerer had some really cool things going for it. The craft tattoo feat wasn't the best implemented part of Pathfinder 1E, but it was extremely flavorful. I loved that it gave you basically a living tattoo as a familiar, and I'd love to see a version of the Archetype that let you invest resonance each day into tattoos that grant various cool abilities.

3. Archeologist - (Bard) I like the idea of being able to turn another character into a more trap focused sort of whip wielding Indiana Jones, trading class features for self-buffing and trap-dodging abilities.

4. Empyreal Knight - (Paladin) - The idea of being a holy and warrior who slowly becomes more Angelic riding out on a Majestic Flying steed was really fun. I liked how it made the Paladin more of a minion focused class with it's summoning ability, and it was a very different take from the standard Flaming Sword and Board Paladin.

5. Saurian Shaman - (Druid) Everything is better with dinosaurs. Everything. And it was super fun to be able to have a dinosaur themed Druid who can take on aspects of Dinosaurs without shifting all the way into wildshape. Totem Transformation was great, and the Bonus feats really let you play the Druid in a more Combat Focused kind of way.

I also Like Iroran Paladin a lot, But the list would be too long.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Magus: Blackblade
Wizard: Scrollmaster
Bard: Archaeologist
Alchemist: Chirurgeon
Ranger: Trapper or Trophy Hunter (Can't pick)

Liberty's Edge

I haven't played too much with Archetypes, but the two existing ones I really liked are the Archer for Fighter, and Archaeologist for Bard. The Archaeologist I actually got to play in a campaign. She was an elf named Indalia who had all the whip feats, a fedora and a leather satchel. ;) The biggest draw for the archetype was being able to play a character that could perform the critical non-combat function of a Rogue (Magical Traps!) without being forced to have Sneak Attack. In Pathfinder 1e the defining quality of a Rogue is their Sneak Attack: There are archetypes that eschew trapfinding. I asked if I could do a custom Archetype for Fight that gives up features like Armour Training/Mastery for Trapfinding related things (similar but more limited to how the archaeologist does), but he shot it down extremely fast saying I had to take levels in Rogue if I wanted that.

TL;DR: I want more variety of Archetypes that can perform that dungeon-crawling necessity or a generic one that many classes can take.

Saethori wrote:

Nature Fang (Druid)

Scout (Rogue)

Virtuous Bravo (Paladin)
Not all knights in shining armor are knights... or wearing armor, at that! Virtuous Bravo turns what it means to be a paladin on its head, letting you be one who darts into battle nimbly and skillfully in your eternal pursuit of removing evil from the land.

Zen Archer (Monk)

Chirurgeon (Alchemist)

Wow, that is actually a pretty cool Paladin Archetype.

As I mentioned in the On Cognitive Load thread, I think that every core class should have an easy-to-play archetype for beginners.

Yet Erik Mona's question is more important. We should have beloved archetypes, too.

Here's my list of five:

Alchemist - Fire Bomber (the goblin PC in my Jade Regent campaign had a lot of fun with this.)
Barbarian - Urban Barbarian (play barbarian without the berserker motif.)
Bard - Archaeologist (play Indiana Jones. Also would work as a beginner archetype.)
Monk - Ki Mystic (my monk wanted to use his ki powers peacefully.)
Ranger - Guide (my ranger didn't have recurring enemies. He had friends.)

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I enjoy the Fighter's Brawler archetype (from Ultimate Combat, not to be confused with the hybrid class). In PF1, generally the only way to get inside a foe's guard was if they had a reach weapon. I like the idea of a character who can take advantage of shorter weapons by getting so close that their opponent can't swing at them effectively. This fighting style would also work well for Rogue, Monk, and maybe even Barbarian.

Ooh, this is my kind of thread.

Reanimator Alchemist - What can I say about this class? It lets me Herbert west around the land while still being distinct from the usual necromantic caster.

Storm Druid Druid - I just like lightning and this feels like the most flavorful class with its unique abilities related to storms and wind, more than just electricity.

Blight Druid Druid - It just provides a unique, underserved aspect of druids. It's neato.

Skirmisher Ranger - I was just never a fan of Rangers having magic, so I found this a really interesting alternative.

Sandman Bard - I just like the idea of playing magical tricksters and this is a lot less clumsy than the Arcane Trickster prestige class.

1) Martial Bard (dervish dancer/arcane duelist)

2) Zen Archer

3) Sound Striker Bard

4) Dragonblood Chymist (Using alchemy to make yourself more like a dragon is the best idea, and being forced to use bombs a little differently makes it feel pretty different from regular alchemists)

5) Feral Gnasher Goblin Barbarian (Goblins bashing their enemies with chair legs. What's not to like?)

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Lathiira wrote:
5) Cloistered cleric (cleric). One of the most popular requests of many players (including myself) is for a divine spellcaster that isn't an armored warrior like the paladin, warpriest, or inquisitor. The man of the cloth. The design space of PF1 is overflowing with warrior-priests (did I neglect to mention oracles of various mysteries, druids, and rangers? silly me), but not viable divine spellcasters who get by with their spells and divine powers. The PF1 archetype was frankly a step in the wrong direction. The Unearthed Arcana version of 3.5 was about right. Now's the chance to do better. It's understood that the cleric doesn't have a lot of tools in the toolbox for making new archetypes in PF1. But this is PF2. Time to make this happen. There are already ideas here on the forums for how to modify clerical spellcasting for the future that might free up some room to make the better cleric and hopefully the better man of the cloth too. That's why I mentioned this last. That, and it's my favorite and probably the most requested archetype in history.

As a GM, I want a Parish Priest NPC archetype that would be like the Cloistered Cleric but with social skills rather than knowledge skills. I needed the friendly local priest who would provide healing and advice to the visiting adventures but whose congregation was always his first concern. It is probably not the best choice for the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook, but my players like to play ordinary people thrown into extraordinary circumstances.

The NPC Joram Kyte (N old male human cleric of Brigh 6) in Fires of Creation is that kind of cleric. The module does not give a stat block, but it does describe some of his spells, such as Water Breathing and Remove Disease. The venerable priest also serves on the town council, so we can assume social skills: "His friendly demeanor, active interest in the metal trade, and innovative crafting skills helped land him a seat on the town council many years ago."

This is hard. There are a lot of pretty good archetypes :/

Bard (archeologist). This is pretty much the sterotypical adventurer.
Sorcerer (Sage). Spontaneous casting, but with spellcraft and knowledges.
Alchemist (Mindchemist) An Alchemist without Jekyll/Hyde vibe.
Monk (martial artist). A possibility for those who want a more "mundane" monk.
Druid (Goliath). I played this character and loved it. But lot of other druid archetypes will be good too.

Liberty's Edge

Mathmuse wrote:

As a GM, I want a Parish Priest NPC archetype that would be like the Cloistered Cleric but with social skills rather than knowledge skills. I needed the friendly local priest who would provide healing and advice to the visiting adventures but whose congregation was always his first concern. It is probably not the best choice for the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook, but my players like to play ordinary people thrown into extraordinary circumstances.

Cardinal Cleric basically does this. Though the trade was "almost everything" for "6+Int skills and Bluff/Initimidate/Kn. Geography/Kn. Local as class skills"

none they all stink

no seriously I cant do 5, it would have to be 5 per class..... and only maybe then.... so let me go look....

non edit button edit:
1: tempered champion: loss of spells for combat prowess.... eeeh I dont like any of the others.
none: I might be alone here, but I prefer the vanila fighter
Bard: dawnflower dervish ( Im not really big into bards)
Cleric: none
1: dreadnought : like the idea of putting fear into enemies
druid: vanila druid ( though the ones for the different terrains are good)
inquisitor: not core
1: vanilla
monk: perfered monk is vanila ( whether or not it is or is not unchained)
1: acrobat, thieves's highway and need I say more
1: Sword devil ( love red sonya)
2: vanila ranger
1: vanila
war priest: not core
1: champion of the faith
2: vanilla
2: the elemental schools
Witch: not core
1: vanilla
Cavalier: not core
1: green knight
2: none as the order of the green is the only thing that speaks to me
ninja:not core
1: vanilla
Bloodrager: not core
1: vanilla
arcanist: not core
1: vanilla

if it was vanilla, you cant alter greatness

seriously though I could not only name 5 of my favorites
so it was 7...

if I didnt list a class it is becuase that class does nothing for me

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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Me on Monday - "Hey Erik, cool thread over the weekend. What were the results..."

Erik stares at me intently.

Me - "I'll get right on correlating those results for you..."

(I kid of course. This is the sort of thing we've been dying to ask, but couldn't really until the news was out. Interested in seeing what folks really like in the realm of Archetypes.)

In no particular order:
Alchemist (Mindchemist) - I like the idea of a mutagen for brains. It feels very much the kind of thing a mad scientist might try.
Druid (Blight druid) - The mechanics always felt like they were missing something to me, but the flavour is an interesting direction for a druid.
Monk (Hungry ghost monk) - Again, I like how it turns the flavour of the class around whilst still being a part of the class. Plus, you get to eat people's souls! (sort of)
Monk (Qinggong Monk) - I like my martial artists capable of performing the impossible.
Sorcerer (Crossblooded) - Mixing and matching bloodlines gives more control over your character, and is fun.

And for bonus points, a non base class.
Magus (bladebound) - The flavour just speaks to me. I would love it if you gave this style of mechanic to fighters or wizards. Preferably fighters unless wizards are significantly better at hitting things. A rogue with a talking blade could also be fun.

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Archaeologist Bard, for being a unique take that doesn't use performance and is more focused on himself than a party.

Goliath Druid, because turning into a huge creature is awesome, and I liked the thematics and the way it linked Giants with Dinosaurs. Rather than separating it so it was just summoning dinosaurs and turning into giants, I'd like if they could summon both and turn into both. I guess mix this with Saurian Shaman into a single archetype?

Zen Archer, for being a flavorful and awesome monk variant that does what I would like to see more of - monks actually being good with alternate combat styles like specific weapons.

Skirmisher Ranger, for actually getting to do awesome and flavorful things instead of being weighed down with frankly pretty worthless spellcasting like the core ranger.

Cloistered Cleric, for being what I honestly feel the cleric should ACTUALLY be at its core (other than it absolutely sucking mechanically of course, I mean thematically), with the more martial cleric space being given over to a redesigned paladin / warpriest / inquisitor hybrid.

Thank you for asking. :)

Construct Rider Alchemist, I just wish there was a way to repair constructs easier.

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I haven't had a chance to play many archetypes, but there are plenty I love & want to see in PF2.

There's a bunch for Druid- Swarm Monger, Fungal Pilgrim, Urban Druid, Cave Druid, Leshy Warden.

I really like Alchemist, too. Chirurgeon, Herbalist, Homunculist, Horticulturist, Mad Scientist, Oozemaster. I really like classes that make Alchemist more of a doctor and a scientist.

Also I know Witch isn't gonna be in the first 12, but. Shout out to Tatterdemalion.

Cad Fighter - I love Dirty Trick as a great way to spice up combat.

Flowing Monk Monk - Very cool tactics.

Maneuver Master Monk - Another great tactical monk.

Charlatan Rogue - I am SO enamored with the Rumormonger ability. That kind of ability that really allows you to interact deeply with the game world is so cool!

Thug Rogue - Another cool tactical combat option, and oh-so-dippable. I especially love combining it with Antagonize on my "Push-Pull Paladin".

Runners up: Titan Mauler Barbarian, Celebrity Bard, Lore Warden Fighter, Evangelist Cleric, Monk of the Lotus Monk

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Water Dancer Monk, I just absolutely love the elemental theme, and expanding the use more to Cha. I've always loved the dancer-style of monk.

Flamewarden Ranger, I don't care if it's adjusted to other classes, I'm a sucker for elemental characters and the Phoenix theme to this is awesome.

Elementalists Wizard, yeah the theme is strong with me...

Dervish Dancer Bard, Love these.

Skirmisher Fighter, loved the multiple themes, but I suspect this will be doable in the base game.

Edit: Misremembered a name, fixed.

Ooh… let's see.

1) Swarm Monger, Druid. You can have a pet murder of crows, or a swarm of centipedes. Incredibly stylish, and impossible to do otherwise. Mechanically, also I like the temporary hitpoint option and still getting to shapeshift.

2) Sylvan, Sorcerer. Animal companion on a Sorcerer, solving the terrible low-level play issues of Sorcerer and giving a pet wolf for great roleplay opportunities. One of the hard things about switching to PF2 will be having Yelis lose Waya.

3) Fungal Pilgrim, Druid. Zombie fungus stuff is really nifty, and being able to give yourself an infected animal companion was awesome. Your companion could produce mycotoxins in its blood for you, release spore clouds, and eventually create fungal zombie spawn for you.

4) Phantom Thief, Rogue. Sneak Attack is honestly kind of annoying to use. :/ You either sacrifice a bunch to build for it, or you have to demand a flanking buddy at all times and shuffle around like a crab. This made you the best at skills, and got you high-level skill unlocks at a level people played at. (The archetype was unfortunately biased towards high level play, and I had to rely on kitsune tails to make it work.)

5) Sylvan Trickster, Rogue. It almost hurts to list this over Internal Alchemist's first level trick, since Witch isn't going to be out until at least the next big player's book. But wow, this is something else. Witch hexes, giving powerful supernatural abilities to Rogue, and a reason to max Int on the skill-heaviest class in the game. Plus, also getting DR, which I find very stylish.


The idea of "core class" and "archetype" are a little fuzzy. Sorcerer bloodlines were prototype archetypes, for instance, and I'm not sure how to count Antipaladin. So these don't quite fit.

Rakshasa bloodline, Sorcerer. Favorite bloodline thematically- Rakshasas are the bomb. I just wish it focused more on aspects of Rakshasas that were harder to represent with Sorcerer spells.

Antipaladin, Paladin, sort of. I love being able to make a character who turned to evil for the succubus girlfriend class feature. More seriously, though, a permanent summons is one of the coolest class features out there! The Antipaladin is something of a martial Summoner.

Insinuator, Antipaladin, Paladin, sort of. The pinnacle of Antipaladin, giving it a code that can work well in a group, more flexible alignment, the ability to change what the perma-summons is (as well as making the relationship between summoner and summoned much more interesting), giving the class quick healing for an invincible feeling, and the ability to half-smite anybody who opposes them.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1.) Martyr Paladin - the flavor of a holy warrior who takes on the problems and injuries of his allies for himself is very cool and its a type of paladin you cant really make without the archetype AND the core mechanics here are really amazing. You have the ability to bleed stigmata tp inspire your allies (this currently gices them bardsong in place of Smite Evil but I think this could be tinkered with), the ability to take on the afflictions and statuses your allies have and the action economy to do this while being relevant in combat.

More importantly though, it's a healing forward paladin that doesnt feel like ita trying to be a cleric - its hard for me to explain but it feels like a very Paladin way to heal and that it specializes in afdlictions gives it a niche that clerics struggle to fill sometimes. This is hands down my favorite archetype all around flavor and mechanics.

2) Cloistered Cleric - I really dont like the way this one was implemented in 1e but the archetype of kind of Catholic Medieval monk is a fictional archetype that payhfinder doesnt really capture elsewhere. It would be really cool if this concept could get an awesome representation in 2e. Perhaps they specialize in haunts rather than more traditional kinds of undead?

3) Carnivalist/Sczarni Swindler Rogue

In my mind these concepts are sort of linked - I would love to see a social swi dling focused rogue based on the idea of street performer/grifter. These are two of my favorite archetypes on spec and it would be great to see revamped rogue really be able to nail this concept.

4) Mooncursed Barbarian - I love love LOVE the idea of being able to legally play a chatacter who has contracted lycanthropy without being a disruptive presence in the game and I love the idea of rage and lycanthropy being linked. This is a very clever and fun archetype in terms of both flavor and mechanics - Beast Shape in many ways emulates the benefits of rage anyway but being so mad that you turn into a bear is awesome. Keep it please.

5) Lore Warden

I think you need only reference the INCREDIBLE backlash to this archetype getting tinkered with to see what an emotional attachment the organized play community has to this concept. The idea of an educated fighter who uses a finessed fighting style and who is a scholar is something pretty unique to the lore warden (only the Armiger comes close and that's another excellent archetype).

I would love to see the idea tinkered with, maybe trading some of the 2e fighters amazing action economy for improved finesse options. Just spitballing here.

This was very difficult to do even just sticking to core classes and not even getting to talk about Inquisitor Oracle or Cavalier let alone the Occult classes!

Scarab Sages

1. Archivist
2. Invulnerable rager
3. the Genie Bloodlines
4. Duelist
5. Living Grimoire

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ooh I should have read the thread first - I have to second Asmodean Advocate. I have been having an absolute blast playing a shady lawyer and the ability to deliver touch spells via snake has been super cool.

For me... hmm.
Eldritch Scoundrel for the rogue, since it provides a very cool change to playstyle, while also providing a rogue-y mage with wizard style spell acquisition(which could potentially fit a treasure hunter or thief well).

The Martial Artist and Sohei archetypes for the monk as well. One allows for a more power(including the ability to ignore DR and hardness) focused monk while the other allows for a weapon wielding monk with an animal ally fighting alongside them.

For alchemist, the Herbalist archetype seems cool, giving druidic magics and improving their ability to find and collect herbs(as well as a nifty seedpod themed attack).

Finally as number five; the Freebooter ranger. It's a pretty short archetype, but being able to spend actions to buff allies is pretty cool(the rp aspects of being a sort of ship's commander are cool too!).

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Empyreal Knight
Moon Cursed Barbarian
Promethean Alchemist
Synthesist Summoner
Planar Oracle
Fey Trickster

This isn't counting the various bloodlines and mysteries that I like.

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