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Think, if anything, this is the model of a good cantrip. Do you really want to nerf spell-casters more? It's very difficult to get good mileage out of your spell slots (except maxlevel ones) so cantrips are extra important this edition as a reliable option that'll be effective in most combat scenarios. Even for evokers, they're not gonna be packing more than 4 actually strong blasts at any level, so cantrips can be used to extend their "workday" if they're actually decent.

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Given how much space is used up when they have to post multiple statblocks for the same enemy at different levels in PFS, I have a feeling that word-count is not the main limitation here and they could justify the higher DC if they wanted by adding an extra sentence.

Kinda wish there was a drag/pull option. Was surprised when didn't see it in the CRB.

It's not too bad from trained to expert, since most chars can get basically every skill they could want trained at level 1 anyways. It's pretty unlikely you'll ever pick up new "trained" skills after level 2.

If there was a feat that allow you to go from expert to master, THEN it would be really critical to know what increase was when.

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The DPR calcs in this forum are already very "thorough", they are done vs a buncha different enemy ACs, with/without a buff, spending X amount of actions, etc. Its a lot of info but it is being computed.

Are those conclusions not being felt in practice for you? For example, Fighter has the best DPR in basically every situation regardless of build. Are you seeing other martials do better than them?

Another point I remember is how cantrips generally do better than a weapon if you're a Sorc/Wiz, no matter how much you specialize in the weapon. Is this also not working as shown?

I think the conclusions drawn from the DPR threads here have been quite spot-on and in many cases have helped discover some of the more interesting builds.

So gonna need to see some evidence that they reach incorrect conclusions. However, if you say that maybe "Not all of the relevant information is being looked at", then you're probably right! There's probably some stuff not yet discovered because aren't looking at the right data.

A player of mine got his ass kicked in a Hellknight test last weekend. It was the Hell's Vengeance AP so it fit.

Is it me or having to take Armiger Dedication + Signifier Dedication is really rough? All you're getting is some skill increases. Nothing you can use to fight for at least 2 CLASS feats. Some armor would have been welcome, even if just +1 tier from your current one. The stuff they're gatekeeping better be awesome or else.

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+5 (remember maxed STR) to hit is insurmountable. Almost nothing in the game can even come close to bridging this. The best buffs are Heroism and Haste and even togetther they don't add up to that Damage increase. Against weaker enemies it's crits all day and against boss-tier enemies you can hit them at all on your first attack very reliably.

Early levels warpriest can hang in the frontlines very well with the other martials, but they end up being relegated to buff/heal only teens. Those buffs probably are going on a Martial, not yourself.

What was cool about PF1 Warpriests was access to some good self-only buffs that you could quick-cast using Fervor. Perhaps it was too good? But it sure let them stay good in melee for their entire career rather than supporting.

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I don't agree that feats "shouldn't scale" when you level up. There's a lot of feats that improve your to-hit, reduce your MAP, allow you to hit multiple targets, increase damage of a spell by it's spell level, power up when proficiency increases, etc. Plenty of good stuff that will continue to get better as you level up so that it continues to be useful vs the greater enemies you will face.

As it is, it's decent if you get it asap and then you should be retraining it after a few levels. The 3.5 average damage it's giving you every couple of turns doesn't even account for 1 levels worth of HP gain. I know it's free, but it does have an opportunity cost of using up one of your valuable class feats - all of them should be putting work since they are an investment.

Also, this is a cool feat that fits in many character "concepts", so it's a shame that it's kinda irrelevant after a while.

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Zapp wrote:
graystone wrote:
They made a very clear niche with spells that mimic magic weapons/armor/items: mage armor, magic fang, magic weapon, artistic flourish, shillelagh all have item bonuses for fear of 'stacking' with real magic items IMO. I have a feeling it'd be a REALLY hard sell to get them to change that bonus to status.

Yes, I agree it is not worthwhile to go down that path.

The problem isn't that Magic Fang is an item bonus.

The problem is that animal companions can't benefit from it.

Just let them have item bonuses and have some way that they aren't equipping permanent magic items for the item bonus. ATM the only one would be Amulet of Mighty Fists? Only one with item bonuses to unarmed attacks. If it's that OP, make it so they can't equip that, but could get item bonuses through other means... Or just let them do whatever.

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graystone wrote:
kaid wrote:
If you look at the pregen druid it seems clear that whoever made that seems to think that it works on their pets.

The person that made the pregen alchemist also thought that it wasn't encumbered but was hilariously incorrect using the current numbers we have... So I'm not sure how much weight to put into an argument that starts "but the pregen...".

As to the "wild druid basic setup", there are plenty of issues brought up in the 'possible error' thread that I'm again not sure how much weight to give it: it could either be a true error, or someone could have easily thought it should work without delving into the bonus types or ally rules. It wouldn't be hard for someone, with a PF1 background, making the basic setup wind druid to THINK magic fang should fit a shape changing druid like a glove and miss the fact that people aren't their own ally anymore.

IMO, I don't see a compelling reason a druid shouldn't be able to use the spell on themselves or an animal companion: the spell would just need to codify exceptions to do it: changes "1 willing ally to "self or 1 willing ally" and to the end of the description add "Animal companions can benefit from the item bonus this spell grants."

This how I'm ruling it, RAW be damned. PF2 is full of bad-feel secret interactions once you read the fine print. I don't like invoking rule 0, but I find elegant and intuitive gameplay should trump arbitrary balance "hacks" like this.

The same goes for Animal companion action economy. Fun > Balance, or whatever designers think "balance" is.

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This is pretty sad, not sure if really intended. Magic Fang shouldn't be giving an item bonus if everything you wanna target with it is arbitrarily immune to item bonuses. I think Magic Fang could be status, or that item bonus restriction which makes no sense could be lifted. Something's gotta budge x.x

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Quandary wrote:

If it's just RP, just tell your GM you want your character to be in with this sect.

I think it's already assumed if you're from Mwangi region that you can do so if you wish.
Nothing stopping you from wearing mask without the magical benefits if you so wish.
(of course, you can be building to qualify later for actual Archetype with magical benefits)

Imo your character will be better off in the long run just RPing being a Magic Warrior than actually taking those useless feats. They are definitely really cool in the lore! You can take Runescarred or Multiclass or something to get a bit of magic to pull it off better. Should beat the +1 vs Divination spells with an Anathema which eventually leads to stuff an Animal barbarian can already do better.

How does it stack up vs the table in the CRB that is supposed to do this very same thing?

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Was really surprised Half of Magic Warrior didn't have the skill tag.

shroudb wrote:
Aservan wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

Disintegrate's saving throw is one degree worse than it is if you crit the spell attack roll, Aservan. So if you crit the spell attack, a success on the save is actually a failure, and a failure is a crit failure.

Also: lol at picking close to the worst possible creature to use disintegrate on to make disintegrate look bad

Got it. I just assume I will never crit and then am pleasantly surprised when I do... once a year.

As for worst case I didn't choose barbarian or critters like them because then the math is even worse. A 13th level barb can't critically fail a fort save. Nearly any monster large or bigger will have a good fort save. Most monsters won't upgrade success to crit success, but they often have even more HP than an equivalent level PC. So a bit more damage is proportionately less useful. By 11th level you're mostly done with the kobolds, goblins, and orcs part of your career. You've moved on to the trolls, giants, and dragons part.

I chose Wizard vs. Fighter because it's practically the oldest grudge match in the game. Opportunity attacks really ruin a caster's day.

Again I'm not saying it's a crap spell. I'm saying I it's merely an average spell when it used to be one of those auto-prep spells. I think that's probably a good thing.

That's why you use true strike.

Rolling twice against a debuffed target has a significant chance to crit.

And at that level, "level 1 spells" are a resource for mainly for true strikes either way. If you aren't using them on your 6th level spells, where will you be using them?

I may have to do the math on "that significant chance to crit", because at first glance, you have to roll a 20 for this to ever happen. True strike gives you 2 chances at rolling a 20 which isn't "significant". I guess if the enemy is flat-footed it could be a 19 in some instances.

Remember there's no way to add item bonus to this attack, it has some big disadvantages as far as hitting equal level enemies.

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Saldiven wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:

And man these thread titles. I think it would be faster to just write 'is pf2 a trap option'

I agree. People are so melodramatic. Everything that isn't the best possible option is apparently "garbage" or a "trap."

The opposite sentiment also eists on this forum, where all permutations of class/feats/stats provide satisfying gameplay from level 1-20. Not helpful either.

Specially in this thread you can't tell me your Sorc built from lv1 around leveraging Dragon Claws is going to be doing much except dying. If such builds exists/will exist that can do this properly, it will take intelligent decision-making to pull off and that's what we're trying to figure out. Worst case scenario at least convince someone to not attempt this build yet.

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TomParker wrote:

Another in the "did I miss something" series of questions.

1. You don't always get a focus point when you get a new focus ability, correct? I'm looking at a Champion who has 1 Focus Point from Lay on Hands, and took the Deity Domain which granted another focus spell. But it doesn't appear to grant another point. So it's expected that in some cases you might have more focus spells than points (not considering the 3 Focus Point limit, obviously).

There's a rule, I think in the Glossary? That says you always get +1 max focus point when you gain those feats, even if it only says "If you don't have a focus pool you gain one with 1 point". Of course, to the limit of 3. This does mean a Cleric could get a extr apoints at level 1 by taking Domain Initiate more than once.

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Still waiting for that Gladiator Lore or Espionage Lore to come up...

Weapon Storm is gonna be rough to land, but for sure 12 WIS is pretty good and you'll kick ass in melee! Keep that spell for cleaning up mooks, I guess.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

If I'm a free hand, dex based fighter who wants to fight with the aldori dueling sword the archetype gets me:

- Proficiency with an advanced weapon equal to my best proficiency (normally a 6th level feat.)
-A skill bump to a skill I probably wanted.
-Access to dueling parry at the same level.
-Access to riposte 2 levels earlier.

If you want to use a Dueling Sword (which you only ever do if you're Dex based), this is probably correct. I'm just not at all convinced that's a huge bonus to do for a Fighter. You could go Str, use a longsword, and get most of the same Feats and have a few bonus Feats as well. Your Acrobatics and Reflex Save are lower going that route, but your AC is the same, your Athletics is higher, and you save a few Feats.

It overlaps with Fighter too much to be a really optimal choice, IMO. It's not that taking it will weaken you, it's that taking it gets you very little you couldn't have gotten easily already so it doesn't strengthen you or make your build work differently either. I just think anyone else who wields weapons gets a lot more from it than Fighters do.

This is what I feel happens to a lot of the archetypes right now. Like, they have some cool options in there, but it requires all of this investment that you end up worse than if you just stayed in your base class forever in the end. I think it's mostly due to the fact that a lot of dedications don't add much of anything to combat, so you end up spending 2 almighty class feats to get some "lateral" ability that can rarely make up for the investment.

Being "flavorful" is expensive right now, not sure if you can catch up to all the solid options a lot of classes like Rogue, Monk Fighter have. We've seen some archetype version of their abilities already, which are marginally better than the original. I think it's a good idea to push this "upgrade" for future releases so you can make up for all the costs of taking an archetype.

Spellcasters are less hindered by this since their class pools are pretty shallow and at some levels there's nothing I'd like to take. On the other hand, most of the new archetypes aren't particularly designed with casters in mind, so they don't have stuff they want either.
I figure this will change with time as casters get better class feats and archetypes find the power sweetspot.

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If you only have 2 players, the least disruptive solution would be to give each 2 characters! More work for players but you ensure all of the game balancing and encounter design works as intended without any jank house rules or systems. You wouldn't even have to modify encounters at all!

Would really like them fully separate. Merging things might seem "elegant", but it just leaves the specific implementations feeling really thin and same-y, which I'd say goes against the spirit of Pathfiner of just having more choices, and the choices mattering.

In PF1 each of them actually has their own heritages (Sun/Lava/Normal Ifrit) anyways, so gotta fit those in.

Not to mention they all should have different ability score boosts.

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I mean, I also think Sorcerer is a bit worse off than the other casters, specially at low levels. The main culprit here is their level 1 focus power, of which there is several really bad ones (Lol melee combat) and with which you are stuck with for a good while. This class supposed to be the one to depend on their focus powers the most, but they have the least flexibility on choosing them.

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John Lynch 106 wrote:
I love that this thread is 24 posts long and we haven't yet had anyone suggest a casting class is overpowered.

Not sure that can be considered a positive. Was that the goal of this edition? "Let's make sure nobody will think casters are OP again?", because there's a lot of ways to go about it. They definitely picked... a few of them.

This is the wrong forum for this question (This is Pathfinder 2 section).

But yes, a ranged touch attack would provoke an AOO even if it's Supernatural.

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CorvusMask wrote:

I kinda wonder why everyone is worried about the Mask?

Like that is how it worked for Magic Warriors in 1e too. The idea is that they are kinda like that luchador thing of "I NEVER ever remove my mask." Aka, you don't do that normally ever, so unless your party members are dicks, its not issue :p

Something like that can become a positive when the rest of the package is cool. The 1E magic Warrior wasn't amazing or anything, but it was a perfectly usable thematic gimmick char. Now it's like "I can gimp myself to get this negative trait". Ultimately, it's mostly a ribbon and doesn't matter a lot, so it's gonna be judged along with the rest of the package.

Clearly it's not gonna be the deciding factor for most people picking/not picking this...

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I think it would be cool if they release a feat for monks to be able to regain Ki a lot more effectively or even mid-combat so that they can "spam" their Ki stuff more regularly. Even the Sorcerer style "regain all 3 focus" would be pretty helpful! Perhaps could even achieve a higher limit somehow.

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Rysky wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Reziburno25 wrote:
Magic Warrior is just fluff thing with no mechanics to back it up.
Aside from the Dedication you get two transformation Focus Spells and the ability to use Nondetection on yourself.

The campaigns where non-detection on a PC has any value are extremely specific. I have never played or ran one where a player has wanted to cast this spell. The one where a +1 on saving throw against divination spell are useful are probably ZERO. Aren't those spells supposed to be cast multiple times to keep tabs on you?

The structure of Pathfinder APs make it so thwarting divination would either derail the entire thing or be irrelevant.

Now, it does have other abilities, but they are pretty disappointing too. Can't even get natural attacks or anything from their animal until the second spell, and it's not abilities you want at medium-high levels.

”I won’t use these in my campaign” =/= “has no mechanics”

Name one in an AP if you want.

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Rysky wrote:
Reziburno25 wrote:
Magic Warrior is just fluff thing with no mechanics to back it up.
Aside from the Dedication you get two transformation Focus Spells and the ability to use Nondetection on yourself.

The campaigns where non-detection on a PC has any value are extremely specific. I have never played or ran one where a player has wanted to cast this spell. The one where a +1 on saving throw against divination spell are useful are probably ZERO. Aren't those spells supposed to be cast multiple times to keep tabs on you?

The structure of Pathfinder APs make it so thwarting divination would either derail the entire thing or be irrelevant.

Now, it does have other abilities, but they are pretty disappointing too. Can't even get natural attacks or anything from their animal until the second spell, and it's not abilities you want at medium-high levels.

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Yeah I did start skipping a lot of LOWG Backgrounds because it became hard to even tell them apart, always giving the same <10 skill feats for the majority of them.

Only one that I liked was the Armiger, which actually had cool + thematic abilities that match up with their PF1 stuff. The rest are mostly just niche abilities where you invest a lot to play a jank build that is weaker than just staying in your base class.

SuperBidi wrote:
Lightwire wrote:
In the one case where the cost of consistent consumable use isn’t money, the alchemist, they are still using up their core class feature instead. They could use them themselves and get some boost to damage, bringing them more inline with the classes that consider martial damage a priority, or they could use them to enhance their allies, biffing them like may others classes already can. In either case their abilities are not out of line with the rest of the classes.
A level 8 archer with 14 Strength and weapon specialization does 2d6+3 damage with a shortbow. A wyvern poison does between 5d6 and 8d6 damage if the enemy fails the save. If the enemy fails 2 saves, damage is doubled after one round. So, if you can add that at each and every arrow... Even if the enemy makes half of its saves, we are speaking of doubling to tripling damage at no action cost as it's prebuff. It's overwhelmingly powerful in a game where buffs have been reduced a lot.

They're doing no damage and the poison is being wasted entirely on a miss, however. So this higher reward of being able to fire multiple poison shots in a row comes with the downside of not getting it back on a miss.

Saldiven wrote:
So, what we've established is that different combinations of DC and skill modifier will have varying rates of occurrence for crit fails and crit successes.

Not at all. What has been established is the range of results that result in "basic success" is higher than the range for "basic failure" before either becomes critical. This means you basic succeed 1 earlier than intuition would say or crit fail 1 earlier, depending on point of view.

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John Lynch 106 wrote:

Based on posts I've seen on this board (I never saw the direct statement myself) I believe Paizo has committed to always playtesting classes. This was after some classes were published without playtesting and some of them were poorly received by the community.

But that is hearsay (unless someone has a link to provide) so don't hold Paizo to that!

Somehow the Alchemist has slipped through even after rigorous playtesting.

No undercasting or overcasting except Signature Spell. If you know Magic Missle 3 it can only be level 3 unless you can use Spontaneous Heightening.

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L does not count as exceeding, nor meeting. To exceed your Bulk limit, you must have +1 over it, so 8 in your case.

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Schmoe wrote:
Before 3e there were no attacks of opportunity. Protecting the squishies was all about chokepoints, battlefield control, and limiting exposure, and that still works just as well. Put the caster in a corner and have three melees surround him. Use pits, grease, walls, etc. to limit enemy access. Flight, levitation, corridors, shield walls, the list of options goes on. In many ways the ubiquity of AoOs really limited tactical options before. I'm personally not sorry to see fewer of them.

Depending on the version and rulebook you were using, there was indeed some form of AOO or stickiness. Not to mention you couldn't always move + attack in the same turn. It isn't that hard to stay "in the back" in OSR stuff.

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People can backflip in full plate just fine IRL, should google it!

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Rysky wrote:
Berselius wrote:
A goblin is a maniac, a bugbear is a sadist, and a hobgoblin is a conqueror and NOTHING can change that.
They're humanoids, not fiends.
Yes it leaves Golarion with fewer possible allies to rely on against the rise of the Whispering Tyrant but let's be honest, Tar-Baphon’s could possible seduce Azaersi

No? She's not an omnicidal maniac, nor is she an idiot.

Dunno, I have been running this campaign and the Ironfang legion are a bunch of sadistic murderous maniacs that will kill innocent children without a second thought. Throughout a lot of the story it is clear they are wicked and attempts at negotiation will result in betrayal. And I'm playing them just as portrayed in the books.

War is hell, they have taught this fact to the PCs and, in response, they have completely dehumanized the goblin folk as nothing more than creatures to be slain without mercy to protect the world.

Really seems odd to me that they are portrayed so extremely evil and constantly torturing the PCs and their friends and then the party is expected to just let them off the hook. Maybe picked the wrong AP to try and tack this on...

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Pretty sure that Monolith feat is rare because it requires some advanced ritual that you'll only be able to get in Osirion or something. It's a lot easier to join the order compared to getting the ritual, which will require you to potentially travel half of the Inner Sea and convincing the faction that you deserve the ritual. It's rare because this feat has implications that can't just be handwaived. Being from Osirion is not enough, you HAVE to RP all of this. If your campaign cannot accommodate all of this, then it would be impossible to gain this power. And it is gonna happen right in the middle of a campaign, since it requires some levels before you can take it.

For PFS purposes you probably need to earn some reward thing and belong to correct faction before you can take this.

In short, you are supposed to jump through hoops to gain this feat because of the flavor of it. It is intended that it's so complicated. I would say that's enough for the "Rare" tag.

The Hellknight order requirements of having a Knight witness you single-handedly defeating a powerful Devil are a lot more lenient than this, specially since Hellknights can be found throughout Avistan and the requirement could be met pretty easily. It might be rare too, for all we know.

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Suffice to say, my Ironfang Invasion party is having none of this Hobgoblin society. Will have to figure out how to handle this going forward...

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Aservan wrote:

Multiclassing Champion isn't as easy as you seem to think. You're talking about some serious stat creep. You need a 14 Cha and Str to multiclass Champion. That's doable from level 1 with the expected 18 Wis, as long as you're willing to sacrifice your level 2 class feat.

But now your armor is giving you a penalty if you want heavy (16+ Str to avoid the Speed and Armor Check hit). A character who wants to melee doesn't want a speed penalty of -10 feet/action. You are also limited to being a cleric of a good deity as we only have the rules for good champions.

You can buff Str as you level, but would you rather put that increase into Dex or Str? Dex gets you Reflex save and armor class. Str gets a cloistered cleric more melee damage and less armor penalties. Only you're a cloistered cleric and want to hang back and nuke/heal. You're not supposed to be taking the hits. Better Reflex is probably the better bet.

Honestly warpriest is something you're doing because you think it'll be fun to play. Cloistered is where the munchkins will go. Skip the armor and its costs, penalties, feat taxes, bulk, etc. Put the extra stat mod into Cha and get more heals. Con might be better as well. Reading the bestiary, equal level monsters will usually hit so having a super high AC to get ahead of the curve is chasing the carrot. Just accept the damage and kill them before they kill you.

18 WIS on a warpriest? No way man. Gotta keep that stat pretty low! STR and CHA are going to do a lot more for a "normal" melee-oriented warpriest than WIS. Stick to buffs and cure spells and your spell DC is irrelevant. They can easily meet the multiclass requirements, but do agree MCing Champion it's not for every Warpriest.

Can grab that feat that boosts will save to have something like Resolve, at least! Or TWF if he was into the Daisho stuff. Fighter can pull it off pretty well.

Alenvire wrote:
Tikael wrote:

I'm not seeing where it says you can't cancel the flaw with a boost, in fact I see precisely the opposite:

Dwarves, for example, receive an ability boost to their Constitution score and their Wisdom score, as well as one free ability boost, which can be applied to any score other than Constitution or Wisdom.
I don't have my books with me but that's the wording from AoN

Ah, I see that now. I assumed that you could not just negate a flaw so did not pay attention to the actual wording as well as I should have.

However, I don't consider taking 2 flaws to get a ability boost as valid. Weakening the race in another way puts them back in the suboptimal position again. But, its still good to know.

16 WIS is plenty for the warpriest and you can get that without dumping. In fact, it's probably too high depending on the build. Those guys can have 12 WIS so you can get higher CHA and STR.

THis Goblin is gonna be just fine if you focus on STR/CHA.

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Midnightoker wrote:
Temperans wrote:
One of the main complaints from people that font want new classes is, "it will take or invalidate the niche of X class".

I think in this case the Summoner it can work, but the Summoner to me is almost like balancing a spinning plate:

- Action economy makes it hard to balance, this holds true in both editions if the Eidolon had no action restrictions and even if it had just light action restrictions, that can still be hard to balance due to variability in combat

- It suffers from the same issues as designing the Mutagenist - you want it to be good in melee combat (your summon in this case) but not so good that it is better than other melee classes (because a Mutagenist/Summoner will likely have other things they cannot do)

- Summons that customizable (and at every level) mean that versatility is wide and combinations are high, this makes it hard to predict how new Eidolon attributes are going to affect overall power

- The cost for the death of a summon is always lower than the cost of the death of a character, even with staggering penalties to the Summoner, because by definition "Dead" is the worst condition

- GMs struggle to deal with them because Banishment or any amount of Summon prevention invalidates their whole schtick, killing the eidolon often came with a "can't come back for a while" penalty which meant "time to rest" for the party, and in general just had to be handled a lot differently than other classes. Punishing a player for reckless choices with their Eidolon "felt bad" to me, it felt like the only way I could give them consequences was to directly attack the Summoner itself (which is effective, but comes off as "targeting")

Now Summoner is at least unique enough as the "full companion class" with Focus spells for summoning purposes.

I would love to see one come back that was balanced, because the concept is a strong one and stands alone in terms of niche in a group.

Great Post! Summoner is a class that many players want, but GMs tend to struggle with. It should be included for sure because of it's high demand and the many concepts it can fulfill, but those are very valid points that should be addressed as much as possible for the new design.

Racial stat boosts, given that you get a free one, have a pretty minimal impact in your final build. I wouldn't be surprised if you can get pretty much the same spreads as Elf or Dwarf unless they are keeping their 8. All in all, it doesn't have much of an effect mechanically if a Race gets +2 on 2 physical scores: It'll just even out. Only thing you gotta worry about is people making a big deal out of the "brute" portrayal, specially if it comes with -INT.

Kinda silly to me that it's some taboo to imply someone is less intelligent than another, but such are things.

I mean, it is GM adjudication at this point. If they are in a straight line from where the projectile would travel then it would upgrade to regular cover for sure. At this point you figure the character is shooting from above them so "Greater" cover might be a bit much unless there's large creatures in said line.

GM shouldn't feel guilty for ruling a more punishing penalty if the player is honestly trying something like this and then trying to rules lawyer you.

Really frontloaded and decent class. You get Expert weapon early and expert armor... At an acceptable time. This class seems to be extremely good until they get to like lv12+ and then the math would say they start to drop. One would expert Master weapon at like 15 but nope, it just falls behind. What you gotta do at the higher levels is cast Heroism on yourself to "fix your math" and make sure to have good equips asap, then they can still hang in the frontlines, even if it's more work.

The curse of the small bear ACs strikes back!!

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