It's not too bad from trained to expert, since most chars can get basically every skill they could want trained at level 1 anyways. It's pretty unlikely you'll ever pick up new "trained" skills after level 2.
If there was a feat that allow you to go from expert to master, THEN it would be really critical to know what increase was when.
The DPR calcs in this forum are already very "thorough", they are done vs a buncha different enemy ACs, with/without a buff, spending X amount of actions, etc. Its a lot of info but it is being computed.
Are those conclusions not being felt in practice for you? For example, Fighter has the best DPR in basically every situation regardless of build. Are you seeing other martials do better than them?
Another point I remember is how cantrips generally do better than a weapon if you're a Sorc/Wiz, no matter how much you specialize in the weapon. Is this also not working as shown?
I think the conclusions drawn from the DPR threads here have been quite spot-on and in many cases have helped discover some of the more interesting builds.
So gonna need to see some evidence that they reach incorrect conclusions. However, if you say that maybe "Not all of the relevant information is being looked at", then you're probably right! There's probably some stuff not yet discovered because aren't looking at the right data.
Is it me or having to take Armiger Dedication + Signifier Dedication is really rough? All you're getting is some skill increases. Nothing you can use to fight for at least 2 CLASS feats. Some armor would have been welcome, even if just +1 tier from your current one. The stuff they're gatekeeping better be awesome or else.
+5 (remember maxed STR) to hit is insurmountable. Almost nothing in the game can even come close to bridging this. The best buffs are Heroism and Haste and even togetther they don't add up to that Damage increase. Against weaker enemies it's crits all day and against boss-tier enemies you can hit them at all on your first attack very reliably.
Early levels warpriest can hang in the frontlines very well with the other martials, but they end up being relegated to buff/heal only teens. Those buffs probably are going on a Martial, not yourself.
What was cool about PF1 Warpriests was access to some good self-only buffs that you could quick-cast using Fervor. Perhaps it was too good? But it sure let them stay good in melee for their entire career rather than supporting.
I don't agree that feats "shouldn't scale" when you level up. There's a lot of feats that improve your to-hit, reduce your MAP, allow you to hit multiple targets, increase damage of a spell by it's spell level, power up when proficiency increases, etc. Plenty of good stuff that will continue to get better as you level up so that it continues to be useful vs the greater enemies you will face.
As it is, it's decent if you get it asap and then you should be retraining it after a few levels. The 3.5 average damage it's giving you every couple of turns doesn't even account for 1 levels worth of HP gain. I know it's free, but it does have an opportunity cost of using up one of your valuable class feats - all of them should be putting work since they are an investment.
Also, this is a cool feat that fits in many character "concepts", so it's a shame that it's kinda irrelevant after a while.
Just let them have item bonuses and have some way that they aren't equipping permanent magic items for the item bonus. ATM the only one would be Amulet of Mighty Fists? Only one with item bonuses to unarmed attacks. If it's that OP, make it so they can't equip that, but could get item bonuses through other means... Or just let them do whatever.
This how I'm ruling it, RAW be damned. PF2 is full of bad-feel secret interactions once you read the fine print. I don't like invoking rule 0, but I find elegant and intuitive gameplay should trump arbitrary balance "hacks" like this.
The same goes for Animal companion action economy. Fun > Balance, or whatever designers think "balance" is.
This is pretty sad, not sure if really intended. Magic Fang shouldn't be giving an item bonus if everything you wanna target with it is arbitrarily immune to item bonuses. I think Magic Fang could be status, or that item bonus restriction which makes no sense could be lifted. Something's gotta budge x.x
Imo your character will be better off in the long run just RPing being a Magic Warrior than actually taking those useless feats. They are definitely really cool in the lore! You can take Runescarred or Multiclass or something to get a bit of magic to pull it off better. Should beat the +1 vs Divination spells with an Anathema which eventually leads to stuff an Animal barbarian can already do better.
I may have to do the math on "that significant chance to crit", because at first glance, you have to roll a 20 for this to ever happen. True strike gives you 2 chances at rolling a 20 which isn't "significant". I guess if the enemy is flat-footed it could be a 19 in some instances.Remember there's no way to add item bonus to this attack, it has some big disadvantages as far as hitting equal level enemies.
How much of a trap are the alchemist's bestial mutagen and the sorcerer's Dragon Claws and Glutton's Jaws?
The opposite sentiment also eists on this forum, where all permutations of class/feats/stats provide satisfying gameplay from level 1-20. Not helpful either.
Specially in this thread you can't tell me your Sorc built from lv1 around leveraging Dragon Claws is going to be doing much except dying. If such builds exists/will exist that can do this properly, it will take intelligent decision-making to pull off and that's what we're trying to figure out. Worst case scenario at least convince someone to not attempt this build yet.
There's a rule, I think in the Glossary? That says you always get +1 max focus point when you gain those feats, even if it only says "If you don't have a focus pool you gain one with 1 point". Of course, to the limit of 3. This does mean a Cleric could get a extr apoints at level 1 by taking Domain Initiate more than once.
This is what I feel happens to a lot of the archetypes right now. Like, they have some cool options in there, but it requires all of this investment that you end up worse than if you just stayed in your base class forever in the end. I think it's mostly due to the fact that a lot of dedications don't add much of anything to combat, so you end up spending 2 almighty class feats to get some "lateral" ability that can rarely make up for the investment.
Being "flavorful" is expensive right now, not sure if you can catch up to all the solid options a lot of classes like Rogue, Monk Fighter have. We've seen some archetype version of their abilities already, which are marginally better than the original. I think it's a good idea to push this "upgrade" for future releases so you can make up for all the costs of taking an archetype.
Spellcasters are less hindered by this since their class pools are pretty shallow and at some levels there's nothing I'd like to take. On the other hand, most of the new archetypes aren't particularly designed with casters in mind, so they don't have stuff they want either.
Would really like them fully separate. Merging things might seem "elegant", but it just leaves the specific implementations feeling really thin and same-y, which I'd say goes against the spirit of Pathfiner of just having more choices, and the choices mattering.
In PF1 each of them actually has their own heritages (Sun/Lava/Normal Ifrit) anyways, so gotta fit those in.
Not to mention they all should have different ability score boosts.
I mean, I also think Sorcerer is a bit worse off than the other casters, specially at low levels. The main culprit here is their level 1 focus power, of which there is several really bad ones (Lol melee combat) and with which you are stuck with for a good while. This class supposed to be the one to depend on their focus powers the most, but they have the least flexibility on choosing them.
John Lynch 106 wrote:
I love that this thread is 24 posts long and we haven't yet had anyone suggest a casting class is overpowered.
Not sure that can be considered a positive. Was that the goal of this edition? "Let's make sure nobody will think casters are OP again?", because there's a lot of ways to go about it. They definitely picked... a few of them.
Something like that can become a positive when the rest of the package is cool. The 1E magic Warrior wasn't amazing or anything, but it was a perfectly usable thematic gimmick char. Now it's like "I can gimp myself to get this negative trait". Ultimately, it's mostly a ribbon and doesn't matter a lot, so it's gonna be judged along with the rest of the package.Clearly it's not gonna be the deciding factor for most people picking/not picking this...
Name one in an AP if you want.
The campaigns where non-detection on a PC has any value are extremely specific. I have never played or ran one where a player has wanted to cast this spell. The one where a +1 on saving throw against divination spell are useful are probably ZERO. Aren't those spells supposed to be cast multiple times to keep tabs on you?
The structure of Pathfinder APs make it so thwarting divination would either derail the entire thing or be irrelevant.
Now, it does have other abilities, but they are pretty disappointing too. Can't even get natural attacks or anything from their animal until the second spell, and it's not abilities you want at medium-high levels.
They're doing no damage and the poison is being wasted entirely on a miss, however. So this higher reward of being able to fire multiple poison shots in a row comes with the downside of not getting it back on a miss.
So, what we've established is that different combinations of DC and skill modifier will have varying rates of occurrence for crit fails and crit successes.
Not at all. What has been established is the range of results that result in "basic success" is higher than the range for "basic failure" before either becomes critical. This means you basic succeed 1 earlier than intuition would say or crit fail 1 earlier, depending on point of view.
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Somehow the Alchemist has slipped through even after rigorous playtesting.
Before 3e there were no attacks of opportunity. Protecting the squishies was all about chokepoints, battlefield control, and limiting exposure, and that still works just as well. Put the caster in a corner and have three melees surround him. Use pits, grease, walls, etc. to limit enemy access. Flight, levitation, corridors, shield walls, the list of options goes on. In many ways the ubiquity of AoOs really limited tactical options before. I'm personally not sorry to see fewer of them.
Depending on the version and rulebook you were using, there was indeed some form of AOO or stickiness. Not to mention you couldn't always move + attack in the same turn. It isn't that hard to stay "in the back" in OSR stuff.
Dunno, I have been running this campaign and the Ironfang legion are a bunch of sadistic murderous maniacs that will kill innocent children without a second thought. Throughout a lot of the story it is clear they are wicked and attempts at negotiation will result in betrayal. And I'm playing them just as portrayed in the books.
War is hell, they have taught this fact to the PCs and, in response, they have completely dehumanized the goblin folk as nothing more than creatures to be slain without mercy to protect the world.
Really seems odd to me that they are portrayed so extremely evil and constantly torturing the PCs and their friends and then the party is expected to just let them off the hook. Maybe picked the wrong AP to try and tack this on...
For those of you who already have the Lost Omens World Guide: What are the best optimization uses of these new dedications?
Pretty sure that Monolith feat is rare because it requires some advanced ritual that you'll only be able to get in Osirion or something. It's a lot easier to join the order compared to getting the ritual, which will require you to potentially travel half of the Inner Sea and convincing the faction that you deserve the ritual. It's rare because this feat has implications that can't just be handwaived. Being from Osirion is not enough, you HAVE to RP all of this. If your campaign cannot accommodate all of this, then it would be impossible to gain this power. And it is gonna happen right in the middle of a campaign, since it requires some levels before you can take it.
For PFS purposes you probably need to earn some reward thing and belong to correct faction before you can take this.
In short, you are supposed to jump through hoops to gain this feat because of the flavor of it. It is intended that it's so complicated. I would say that's enough for the "Rare" tag.
The Hellknight order requirements of having a Knight witness you single-handedly defeating a powerful Devil are a lot more lenient than this, specially since Hellknights can be found throughout Avistan and the requirement could be met pretty easily. It might be rare too, for all we know.
18 WIS on a warpriest? No way man. Gotta keep that stat pretty low! STR and CHA are going to do a lot more for a "normal" melee-oriented warpriest than WIS. Stick to buffs and cure spells and your spell DC is irrelevant. They can easily meet the multiclass requirements, but do agree MCing Champion it's not for every Warpriest.
16 WIS is plenty for the warpriest and you can get that without dumping. In fact, it's probably too high depending on the build. Those guys can have 12 WIS so you can get higher CHA and STR.
THis Goblin is gonna be just fine if you focus on STR/CHA.
Great Post! Summoner is a class that many players want, but GMs tend to struggle with. It should be included for sure because of it's high demand and the many concepts it can fulfill, but those are very valid points that should be addressed as much as possible for the new design.
Racial stat boosts, given that you get a free one, have a pretty minimal impact in your final build. I wouldn't be surprised if you can get pretty much the same spreads as Elf or Dwarf unless they are keeping their 8. All in all, it doesn't have much of an effect mechanically if a Race gets +2 on 2 physical scores: It'll just even out. Only thing you gotta worry about is people making a big deal out of the "brute" portrayal, specially if it comes with -INT.
Kinda silly to me that it's some taboo to imply someone is less intelligent than another, but such are things.
I mean, it is GM adjudication at this point. If they are in a straight line from where the projectile would travel then it would upgrade to regular cover for sure. At this point you figure the character is shooting from above them so "Greater" cover might be a bit much unless there's large creatures in said line.
GM shouldn't feel guilty for ruling a more punishing penalty if the player is honestly trying something like this and then trying to rules lawyer you.
Really frontloaded and decent class. You get Expert weapon early and expert armor... At an acceptable time. This class seems to be extremely good until they get to like lv12+ and then the math would say they start to drop. One would expert Master weapon at like 15 but nope, it just falls behind. What you gotta do at the higher levels is cast Heroism on yourself to "fix your math" and make sure to have good equips asap, then they can still hang in the frontlines, even if it's more work.