Hard pass on the idea as is. Frankly the last thing the game needs is even more encouragement for stopping for a smoke break after every single encounter. If your rests were limited by some external source (Starfinder Resolve, Darkest Dungeon type firewood blocks) then the idea has more promise, but just as a generic option? No thanks.
I question how much of a hook the paladin code misinterpretation could be. As I figure it, most people here consider the whole "my way or DEATH" thing as a pretty bad idea (a lot like the whole 'smite and destroy anything pinging evil no questions asked') and due to code strictness, you'd have an ex-paladin pretty quickly. Unless the hook is said ex-paladin wondering where it all went wrong in which case that's probably a case for not dumping wisdom (stupid divine grace encouraging that).
It is Greek Fire. Literally is, in earlier editions of D&D it was actually called Greek Fire, they just changed it since none of the campaign settings has a Greece.
Then again most settings don't have a Lucerne Switzerland and yet Lucrene hammers are still wandering around. Then again I doubt most people are going to catch that the hammers are named after the place while everyone and their mother knows about Greece.
Wrath of the Righteous's bit with big Io herself. Evidently the main thrust of the situation is players can get blasted for failing know checks. I hear there's more nuance to it than that but I wouldn't touch anything Mythic with a 30ft pole so I can't say for sure.
Green Smashomancer wrote:
As of the PF2 playtest, not anymore. Sarenrae evidently got tired of tapping her foot and looking cross at those yahoos (and other TN divine casters of her) while handing them holy power and cut them all off. Good for her, even if it ruins a bunch of jokes for me and others who like sniggering at cosmological inconsistencies.
Correction: there's no difference when facing level appropriate challenges. Try to stab a a L1 goblin as a L15 fighter and watch the fireworks as you easily nail all 3 of your swings and more or less autocrit the first 2 thanks to the +15 you're rocking by default.
There's a difference between 1-2 rounding a monster because you did your Batman/Monster Hunter style prep, exploited its weaknesses to the fullest, and did a bunch of outside the box thinking/tactics vs 1-2 rounds because the wizard landed his save/lose or you drowned it in DPR/action economy as was normal back in the day. That's about as much fun as the 10+ round slog, but on the other hand at least the players can move on from the former faster.
Honestly you could get away with larger hp pools if hp was worked in a different way other than "no difference between max and 1." A person can feel progress if a sword swing lops off the bad guy's arm or breaks a rib (and it isn't just GM flavor text) or triggers some stripe of phase transition that sends the boss to one winged angel mode or whatever.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
I feel the same way in reverse sort of. Like running into people who have evidently made their druid/rogue/fighter/monk quadriplegic the combat mvp of their game despite all my experiences being to the contrary with builds of that sort. People's games are weird.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
Funnily enough, drinking a potion mid-combat has pretty much never come up, in decades of DMing/Playing this game.
Generally because potions were essentially vendor trash under normal circumstances and at best were something you prebuffed with (ie flight potions or water breathing ones). The fact you get bashed in the face for even trying to drink one didn't help matters.
The Once and Future Kai wrote:
Fantasy Age just uses "Blooded" for their catchall term for you half whatevers or planar hybrid (equivalents). Works well enough in my mind.
Off the top of my head, the biggest reason to dislike the dice bukkit is that combining everything for your sneak attacks and fireballs is a pain (which it is honestly, especially if you're doing it all the time). It's not a problem for stuff like Shadowrun and other pool based core mechanics since largely those are just picking out the explosion number, the success numbers, and maybe 1s which is easy to do at a glance and satisfies the lizard part of the brain that enjoys letting fly 10-20 funny shaped dice.
I'm sorta amused that people are saying Desna is the author's pet for the Good gods anyway. I would have pinned that one on Shelyn in a heartbeat.
Goddess who's even more granola chewing than the actual goddess of redemption but oh watch out, she also can throw down well enough beat up Pinhead gorged on a near perfect divine artifact weapon and can totally fix that in time! Oh oh, she's also friends with everyone and even the evil gods want to play nice because she's just so gosh darn pretty and nice. Even Rova -"the pretty ones die first" -gug is willing to slow down a bit with her! *eyeroll*
On the vein of author's pets, Asmodeus gets my vote for the Evil side. I swear, everything that happens vaguely relating to Asmodeus is all part of the master plan, including, nay, especially when he gets beaten. It's like Tzeentch only without realizing in the back of your mind that the "Just as planned!" is part of the joke. Absolutetly nothing got my goat more than the ending of Hell's Rebels where after beating up the final boss, the adventure caps with Mephistopholes rolling up to you and saying "Good job heroes, you've totally done what the boss wanted and even if you lost he'd have won anyway! Now go back to being silly sheep losers,"
That's Asmodeus in a nut shell. Nothing but Xanathos gambits without them being gambits. Except that bit with Baphomet (and why Baphomet eternally gets some props from me). It also doesn't help that his fanbase here seems to keep pushing him as the respectable evil god. Oh he'll tell the truth (except when he doesn't) and keep his word (after monumentally screwing you over in the fine print). Truly the best of the evil gods there... *eyeroll 2*
I've actually lived the dream of having a Bounty Hunter get enough modifiers to go straight to the instant death critical result with enough Lethal Blows talents and a Disruptor Rifle. Good times...
Thanks for that. Been a while since I did L5R but I always did enjoy wager systems. Seventh Sea does the same sort of thing.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
If I were edition warring I'd actually be propping up my favored edition along the way. And as a guy who dislikes 3.5 far more than PF1 (ultimately for the same reasons funnily enough they're just far more pronounced in 3.5) and hasn't even touched the playtest document I'm not doing that. I'm just relaying my experiences with a system I've played for years primarily because it was easily accessible via SRD and wasn't anything my gaming group needed to collectively learn in order to play.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
Never used the unchained RAE but will entirely concur that there wasn't much strategy at work beyond blitzkreiging the bad guy with some permutation of booting in the door or something like dimension door for 95% of engagements. The closest thing to strategy I've come by in my years of playing PF has been how many layers of buffs the wizard and cleric distribute before someone boots the door open and bursting down occurs.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
Not speaking for Ursus here but as another guy who finds PF1's combat to have the depth of a puddle I'll speak up.
Simply put there's no meaningful decision making to be had. If you're a martial you plant your feet and full attack till you or the other person is dead or you use that one maneuver/special ability you teched for with most of your features/feats(dirty trick, trip, grapple, etc). Spellcasting ultimately follows the latter paradigm only you're just picking various flavors of "threat neutralized, go mop up sword dudes" due to how poorly the math and spell mechanics were scaled. But hey, if you're a caster maybe you'll also have to throw up a support (de)buff along the way from time to time too, happy times.
I don't mind relatively brainless combat, but the most absolutely irritating part of PF1's combat is that the combat is couched in a litany of corner case rules and fiddly modifiers that make doing the simple positively teeth pulling.
Hey man, maybe he picked up Dodge for that juicy juicy +1.
Shadowrun had it right all along. Geek the mage.
Or Earthdawn, but conversely when the high water mark for PF casters is summoning natural disasters of varying sorts, rewriting reality, constructing your own demiplanes, etc it behooves the devs to either go Exalted/Earthdawn for the sword guys or bring the magic guys to the BMX Bandit levels. Nothing feels more rubbish than getting DR 5/- in heavy armor as a 19th level fighter when the wizard was making his own greater demiplanes 4 levels before. One of the two (or more likely both) need adjustment for equivalency unless you want a repeat of 3.x's paradigm which the devs have said they don't.
Kind of reminds me of Rogue Trader in a way. Mind bullets are cute and all, but it feels less a big deal when you can radio your orbiting frigate and tell them you don't want to see that particular continent anymore in addition to the standard perks of having wealth along the lines of merchant combines and a private army on your ship alone.
Yeah, it's their system and they could have "apple" pronounced like "fish" if they really felt like it. Doesn't change the fact a not insignificant amount of people are going to get tripped up over the pronunciation because unlike most fantasy babble, "daemon" is an actual (if archaic) word pronounced a different way than JJ says it is (even if its best intentions at work due to the demons over yonder).
David Silver - Ponyfinder wrote:
If you want that then don't waste space writing out a class system and just stick with an open one. Open systems are fine just as class systems are fine, but don't take a leak on my leg and tell me it's raining by trying to disguise one as the other.
Using a bow is niche?
In some systems, yeah "Archer" would indeed be a niche and even a class. Just like I've seen systems where "Wizard speccing in ice spells" is its own class. Whether you like that level of specificity in your class system is up to you, but it's a valid way to handle it.
Yeah I'm with Lore on this one. If you have a class system where everything is available to everyone else and everyone can do the same things...then frankly you missed the point of a class system.
Barbarians get rage and rage related things because that is what Barbarians do. That is their identity and the reason someone devoted a bunch of man hours into making that class and other classes don't get that (instead they get their own things unique to them). It's the same with Rogues, Wizards, Paladins, and every other class that's been deigned to exist. How wide or narrow the niches are is up to the designer, but if you have a class system, you're going to get constraints and opportunity costs (and conversely unique benefits) for going the way you did. That's the system at work and a feature of it, not a bug.
I'm personally of the mind that yes, a lot of people here are very spoiled by PF1.
You hear a lot of folks being frankly insulted that you can't fenagle ways to nail CR+2 monsters on 3+ or breeze by equivalent level skill checks checks on the same d20 roll if not better.
In other words, people unironically enjoyed being Angel Summoner and take exception to Paizo making the adjustments to clarify that the BMX Bandit is meant to be the norm.
For a non glib response though, I want equivalency which ultimately means Paizo needs to make a clear decision if they want gonzo high power or something more constrained rather than the PF1 model where they do both while expecting both sides to equally contribute as party members and adversaries.
You want to keep magic as eminently reliable and calling down meteors from the sky, dominating the minds of crowds, and summoning angels? Yeah, I thoroughly expect my swordsman to be doing Hulk jumps for fast travel, bouncing fireballs back at people like it's a Ganon fight, and inspiring armies with a single rallying cry.
Constrained magic where just being able to fly is the high water mark? Yeah, you can stick with Captain America for brute capabilities.
Just don't give me a wizard bottling cities and tell me my equivalent level fighter can't do a 10ft vertical jump because of realism.
David Silver - Ponyfinder wrote:
Because it's not realistic of course. *Carries on backstroking through molten lava and suplexing rhinos*
With skills, what I don't understand, and would honestly fix a lot of problems, is why we even have that DCs by level and difficulty table. Just give us the DCs for things outright like in PF1e. The table is awful because as we see, people will misinterpret it and scale everything, and it has no clear mathematical basis so you have to actually reference it every time instead of just knowing a formula. I'd much rather have something like, for climbing, knotted rope with wall, DC0, rope with wall, DC5, tree, DC10, rough rock wall, DC10T (where T means you have to be trained in Athletics), brick wall DC15T, and so forth. Heck, feel free and list things like wall of force at DC35L or something. Once you have a scale it's easy to set other DCs for things not included, and it makes the whole affair seem much less arbitrary.
The reason why the PF1e system isn't used is because it's cumbersome, rigid, and offers absolutely no help to the guy on the other side of the screen. Filling up page after page with a bunch of banalities like "climb rope DC x" "climb knotted rope DC y" and "climb knotted rope braced on wall DC z" is another thing I as a GM need to sift around a rulebook to get right in a rulebook already stuffed to the gills with tiny fiddly things to look up and may the gods help me if the party wants to climb a rope in a manner not covered by the rulebook. Conversely a level appropriate table (probably with a short list of examples to provide a framework for what a Level x challenge is) gives me a single place to look and make snap judgements and is most importantly flexible.
I'd chock the higher level cleric staying at home while the PCs deal with a problem as more an instance of genre convention/poor writing than anything else. By any logical stretch of the imagination Pardeux the Holy Man can take a day off from healing people's booboos to deal with the goblins raiding the village. But if he did do that, the PCs are kinda out of an adventure so we tend to look past that.
The Sesquipedalian Thaumaturge wrote:
You forgot the "in theory" part of Dark Heresy psykers being balanced by Perils of the Warp. In practice psykers were preposterously broken even after the worst of their excesses got curbed by errata.
Beyond that, agreed with the general thrust that reliable and ubiquitous magic is part and parcel with Golarion and Perils of the Warp (or Tzeentch's Curse for all you WHFB players) has no place in it. That said you do ideally need to find a sweet spot in what magic is capable so you don't end up with a preposterous Tippyverse (or you embrace that madness and go for an Earthdawn type game where they're up front about wizards [or Adepts in their words] are the only people worth a lick, PCs included)
I'd honestly say you'd be better off with something like Shadowrun if your jam is those types of heists/infiltrations. Pathfinder is just too...rudimentary I guess is the right word for it in matters beyond staving in people's heads in a fight and is also held back by the implied premise that everyone will be crawling through dungeons as a unit and environmental obstacles are typically solved with a lone dice roll/spell.
You're looking at a seething horde larger than than what Saruman sent at Helm's Deep in terms of the longbow armed rabble getting double 20s to crit the dragon (400 commoners per crit going off averages), multiply that by 20 (so blocks of 8000) if we want 400 remnants after the dragon frightful presences most of them away. You're probably looking at several hundred thousand longbow commoners if you want to brute force down the dragon especially since even on crits you need fairly good rolls to get past DR 15/Magic.
Vic Ferrari wrote:
I guess those people don't want a high magic setting then. Or want a different implementation than however 5e does it (disclaimer: I have 0 experience with 5e).
Actually it is. Magic is still everywhere and reliable which is basically the benchmark for whether something is high magic or not (slightly smaller consideration in how quickly you can bolt out magic).
High magic doesn't mean high power, it just means magic being fairly ubiquitous.
Correct. You're no longer getting bumps and flesh wounds at 1hp damage and are starting to get notable wounds. It's a less severe version of something like the old Warhammer RPGs where your Wounds (read: HP) ultimately represent you taking non-debilitating strikes that may look ugly but don't affect your performance, but when start going below that is when you start getting broken bones, sudden amputations, and other silly/deadly things.
Angel Hunter D wrote:
I don't think fate points ever capped, but generally speaking you only ever got bonus fates for acts of lunatic great deeds (Can't exactly call it heroism in the grimdark future) more than just completing campaigns.
Another fun thing about DH fates is that they were a nifty way to (somewhat) keep player damage from doom spiraling too hard in the event the party doesn't have a Biomancer trivializing that particular issue. End of session and you have leftover fates? Sink em into wound recovery so you can carry on with just a bit more security rather than slowly getting whittled down faster than your medicae guy can patch you.
Then again cleric worship blends rules with setting flavor and at that point a certain degree of common sense kicks in saying "You know, a paladin of THE LORD OF HELL really doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the world as we know it, I reckon this is just a silly oversight by the devs," at which point the person's options for wanting to play that are either
1) A lack of common sense
Yeah and that's the sort of blunt drubbing that some people seem to require since either common sense isn't that common or people just love bringing a little Asmodeus to the real world and going "Well technically the rules allow-" and unironically wanting to play it rather than just leaving it as a joke along the lines of saying your dead character keeps fighting since Dead condition doesn't stop you from moving.
Not that intent has ever stopped people on these boards before. Sometimes you need a +5 Adamantine Greatclub to hammer home that a Asmodean Paladin doesn't make a lick of sense no matter how many super edgy roleplay opportunities it opens.