Your Top 5 Archetypes

Prerelease Discussion

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Most Archetypes replace things I really like.

But I enjoyed the
Exploiter Wizard - Wizard (because I like the Wizard more than the Arcanist, but it had some nice Exploits)
Vivisectionist - Alchemist (Because I wanted to play a Melee Alchemist and wanted to replace bombs with something more melee friendly)

Top 5 would have to be
1. Sacred servant paladin, additional domain spells and the like makes it feel like you can customize your paladin and follow more of a theme
2. Virtuous bravo paladin, it's nice to not feel restricted to heavy armor and big swords
3. Sound striker Bard, gives them a bit more combat ability which is nice
4. Dirge singer Bard, my personal favorite way to do necromancy
5. Tormented crusader paladin, really fun design I think and my favorite while going solo

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Let me preface this by saying that I don't really like or value the archetype system at all- they lend themselves to a lot of dumpster diving for good abilities and otherwise frankly trivial differences.

I think there is a lot more worth in breaking down the hybrid classes and applying the lessons from those to their base classes. This is particularly true for the ranger, who would get a lot of more value out of studied target (slayer) and animal aspects (hunter) than favored enemy, favored terrain, forced animal companions or combat styles.

But... for the purposes of the thread.

1) Feral Hunter. Probably the best replace animal companion/spirit/whatever pet mechanic archetype. Gives meaningful but not crazy abilities without too many X/per day timers. A better shifter than the shifter frankly, and could easily be applied to a ranger.

2) Magician. A non-singing/playing bard is far more up my alley, a street level illusionist (in the modern sense) but with some real magic. My only real quibble is the bardic performances need to be more focused on stage illusion and not... +1 bonuses to assorted checks and... negating the metamagic casting time penalty for spontaneous casters (which is still a silly concept).

3) Relic Channeler (Medium). Frankly makes this class playable, rather than hoping there is currently an appropriate site nearby where guards/priests/whomever will let you hang out and conduct dubious rituals. (really, a gatehouse, prison or church? I can easily see players being denied their entire suite of class abilities for the day, because local <site> doesn't like people lurking about). It also personalizes the channeling a lot more- spirits bound to the relics in some meaningful fashion, rather than taking zero-personality spirit that occurs and has no effect beyond the generic penalties for overstepping the influence threshold.

4) Bladebound/Mindblade (magus). There is just something special about a truly personal magic weapon that's innately tied to the character. Always loved the soulknife psionic class idea (but rarely the execution). The Mindblade from Occult Adventures is a similar thematic package.

5) Ley Line Guardian (Witch, Occult Adventures). Easily applied to a wizard. I like the idea of a spellcaster tied to the land rather than bloodlines, spellbooks or dodgy little rodents (or whatever familiar). Mechanically, the archetype is weird and kind of nothing (bonus for not being clear that despite not needing a familiar, the archetype doesn't make it clear that the witch doesn't actually have one), but thematically very powerful and interesting.

Top 5 archetypes would probably go something like this:

1. Knife Master Rogue: having a rogue be the best with knives just feels right. They should be able to use them via throwing and close combat and should feel badass while doing so.

2. Shadow Walker/Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue: a magical trickster or a controller of light magic fits right in with the rogue as well. I rank them evenly as shadow walker's power to control light levels is a really cool concept that could be added to an eldritch rogue even as a type of rogue talent tree, but it fits right in with magical rogues as well.

3. Tattooed Sorceror: Hasn't been done justice or implemented in a way I enjoy yet, but the idea of deriving a sorceror's powers from their tattoos is so flavorful and interesting.

4. Magic Missile Wizard: not an archetype as far as I know but the idea of a Wizard perfecting the most basic spell known to wizards and having it stay relevant as you level in any number of ways is my ideal wizard.

5. Mooncursed Barbarian: bestial rage and lycanthropy in a class. Both of these are really cool concepts and I enjoy them a lot.

Well, my first choice would have been the Synthesist Summoner, my favorite conceptual archetype, despite being a hot mess in practice. But that's not one of the classes that will be in the first book, so...

#1: Vivisectionist Alchemist - I'm not in love with the actual mechanics and flavor of this archetype so much as the dichotomy it provides. I love that this archetype allows you to make your alchemist a melee attacker rather than a ranged bomb-thrower. I'd actually love to see that built into the class directly, rather than leaving it to an archetype.

#2: Goliath Druid - Shapeshifting classes are a personal favorite of mine, and I'm especially fond of anything that gives you rare and interesting forms. It might not be as effective to be a fire giant as it is to be a big angry hippo, but it's a great stylistic choice. Metamorph Alchemist scratches a similar itch.

#3: Titan Fighter/Titan Mauler Barbarian - While both of these archetypes are a tiny bit janky in their execution, it's just a ton of fun to fight with an anime-sized sword, or playing whack-a-mole with enemies while dual-wielding Earthbreakers.

4: Winged Marauder Alchemist - As long as Goblins and Alchemists are going to be base in the new edition, why not bring this great archetype along? Cackling goblins soaring through the sky performing strafing runs with their bombs? Always a ton of fun.

5: Falconer Ranger - I've always been fond of the Bird animal companion. While it's not as mechanically strong as other, larger animal companions, it strikes an interesting balance between Familiar and Animal Companion that's fun to capitalize on. Focusing in on that has always seemed like a fun way to build to me.

Dark Archive

Top 5 in no particular order:

1. Lore Warden Fighter: The idea of an educated Fighter really appeals to me.
2. Blight Druid/Swarm Monger Druid: I like dirty, vile nature, and these druids back that up.
3. Fated Champion Skald-Sometimes it's nice just to feel like a destined hero.
4. Tortured Crusader Paladin-Grim Dark paladins...I can dig it.
5. Mystery Cultist-Not an archetype, but I really, really enjoy a divine caster who gains spell-like abilities in lieu of class abilities.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1. Bard Archaeologist

2. Barbarian Totem Warrior

3. Druid Feral Shifter

4. Fighter Tactician

5. Monk Drunken Master

My top 5 archetypes would be:

1. Skirmisher (Ranger) - Personally, I believe the base ranger should be spell-less, as magic doesn't really feel like a part of the core ranger fantasy. The ranger by all means is an enemy or terrain specialist - but why do you necessarily need magic to be able to be a specialist against Giants? The Skirmisher (and the Trapper) are both interesting variations on a spell-less ranger. I do however think there should be a spell-adding archetype for the ranger
2. Trapper (Ranger) - see above
3. Martial Artist (Monk) - unlike the Ranger, I do think the mystical Ki-powers are an essential part to differentiate the base Monk fantasy from an unarmed Fighter fantasy, but the martial artist allows players to really play their pure kung fu fantasy
4. Tyrant (Antipaladin) - When I read over this entry the first time, I actually kinda wondered why all Anti-paladins weren't LE. They aren't to make them a more obvious foil to the LG paladins, but there seems to be so much wonderful designspace for LE tyrants. Tyrants make fantastic and cool villains
5. Gray Paladin - I like my Paladins LG as high heaven, but sometimes its fun to throw a little gray area into it

Also, a slight sidetrack to the actual question, but should a class like the Hunter appear again, I would greatly appreciate a(t least) a spell-less archetype for it. All players I have had who wanted to play a Hunter has wanted to be the "Ultimate Animal Companion" guy - and most have not been interested in playing a druidic or even a religious character, so that has always been a character contraint for them.

1. Archaeologist Bard (Sometimes I just want to play a bard who doesn't perform)
2. Lore Warden Fighter (Because sometimes the fighter isn't just a meatstick with a sword)
3. Treesinger Druid (although I would prefer if it weren't limited to elf-only)
4. Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue (Arcane Tricksters are fun)
5. Zen Archer Monk (Iconic, and fun)

Storm Druid- Druid. Controlling the weather is just too much fun.

Construct Rider- Alchemist.

Vivesectionist- Alchemist. Being a sneaky plague doctor of death is so much fun. Alternatively, it could probably work as a rogue archetype.

Winged Maurader- Alchemist. It totally changes the way the class is played and it would great to see it available for all small races.

Mooncursed- Barbarian. Getting some supernatural powers on an otherwise magicless class is really nice and shapeshifting is a fun mechanic.

1. Phalanx Soldier (Fighter) - I just need someone to duo with...

2. Paladin of the Holy Light (Being able to explode light is pretty fun)

3. Grey Paladin

4. Detective Bard

5. Rogue Sniper

Most of these because of the flavor and with the Phalanx archetype you really have to think about how to use the shield.

I listed these in alphabetical order.
I did one for each class, although I put a (*) and bolded the 5 highest priority ones if I had to choose 5 only.

Alchemist. I never liked this class, in large part because it felt it was doing too much. (and pushed line on my expectations re:fantasy)
"Bomb Expert" feels like it should be different class (or archetype) from "Mutagen/Potion Expert" yet class does both.
("Bomb Expert" feels like better fit with Guns, less "lots of bombs fast", more bombs as demolition/trap)
If those were more differentiated, perhaps like choice of Ranger styles, I would be happier about it being in Core.
Just getting rid of "fast Bomb flurry" and re-focusing Bombs on more measured usage would be preferred for me. (less video game-y)
So re: archetypes, I like those accentuating that distinction, although IMHO the distinction shouldn't need archetype but should be mandatory.

*Barbarian: Scarred Rager. LOVE the flavor, love the implementation.
To an extent this is "what the class should be" to me, although I can see why it is archetype material, being as the class isn't strictly for 'cultural barbarians'.
This archetype seems to "get" what it means to be "barbarian Barbarian", so I would love to see something similar for P2E.

Druid: This is hard to decide :-).
*Ley Line Druid is awesome on Fey connection flavor, Spirit Sense and Ley Line aspects + "caster Druid" tendency.
(+1 CL effect is minor, but abilities approximating utility spells over-all increase "spellcasting" breadth)
Close 2nd runner up is Halcyon Druid: awesome on flavor and Golarion lore, plus unique, solid niche mechanically.
EDIT: In general, I like archetypes that replace spontaneous SNA substitution, because I dislike that on flavor grounds,
spamming animal summons feels too "Pokemon" to me, being unrelated to environment you are actually in,
I prefer druids use power that interact with actual environment and/or directly exert nature/fey powers.
They should be using Wild Empathy with real animals if they wish to be commanding animals (IMHO).

Fighter: Lore Warden. Although IMHO the "Lore" angle is begging to be overtly tied into Bardic Lore. (i.e. potential shared Feats etc)
It should recognize that Fighter can't be expected to invest heavily in INT, even if SOME has more payback.
So logically, getting something like Bardic bonus to Knowledge(Lore) checks makes alot of sense.

Monk: Drunken Master just feels like strongest classic trope that calls out for archetype.
IMHO it should play with Law/Chaos alignment somehow, perhaps you count as BOTH (or neither?) Lawful and Chaotic?
Close runner up is Zen Archer, which IMHO is also lacking angle on mitigating blind/invis penalties.

*Paladin: Sacred Servant. Amps up the Deity-specific service, which is good to do early to clarify contrast vs Vanilla.

*Ranger: Urban Ranger just calls out to me as the intuitive classic next step from vanilla Ranger.
(and Urban terrain being as accessible as it is to vanilla Ranger strikes me wrong, it should need at least Feat)
(the functionality of Survival & Tracking in Urban Terrain also strikes me as off, that should be differentiated more)

Rogue: Some hybrid of Carnivalist + Counterfeight Mage/Eldritch Scoundrel. Boosting Rogue UMD heritage to next level.

*Sorceror: Varisian Tattooed Sorceror, perfect flavor for setting and interesting "more prepared casting" (SLA) dynamic.

Wizard: Thassilonian specialist, but Bloatmage PrC also holds my attention (and it should be Wizard-only IMHO).

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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OK. I've tablulated the results so far up to this post, and am dropping this as a marker for myself.

I'll be back in a minute to share what I've learned so far. :)

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Alchemist: Preservationist
Letting Alchemists do summons in combat really changes up their combat options and gives a great "pokemon" feel to the class.

Inquisitor: Monster Tactician
I consider this a better version of the Summoner because this archetype is actually designed to "summon" rather than just be a glorified pet class.

Bard: Arcane Healer
Gives a fairly decent arcane option for a healer. Not the best archetype, but I like the idea and it could be expanded/improved.

Warpriest: Sacred Fist
I absolutely LOVE how this archetype works. Best of the cleric, best of the monk, and everything just works so well together without being overpowered. This is really a great archetype and it'd be a shame to lose it in the change over to 2E.

Summoner: Studied Summoner
Okay, this is a shameless plug for my own Archetype for the Summoner. Basically I've always loved the "concept" of the Summoner but hated it's implementation. A classing about Summoning that, if played correctly, doesn't actually Summon much. A Spell-Like Ability that, again if played correctly, can't actually be used. Hence why I designed the Studied Summoner. It patches the more annoying features of summoning while introducing new options for it that makes the option of summoning more 'tactical.'

They're interested in archetypes for CORE CLASSES in 2nd Edition (same as 1st Edition + Alchemist)
They can't work on archetypes for classes that don't yet exist in 2nd Edition.

Quandary wrote:

They're interested in archetypes for CORE CLASSES in 2nd Edition (same as 1st Edition + Alchemist)

They can't work on archetypes for classes that don't yet exist in 2nd Edition.

I understand that, but I included those archetypes because they can be readjusted for other classes like the Cleric or Monk.

Archivist (Bard)
Daredevil (Bard)
Crusader (Cleric)
Tortured Crusader (Paladin)
Falconer (Ranger)

Daredevil: Love the feel of the archetype, could be executed better, but thinking of a Bard that's a "Dashing Rogue" fits perfect for me.
Crusader: Love the aspect of getting those bonus feats, is an Iomedae based Archetype according to ArchivesOfNethys, but love the feel of it.
Tortured Crusader: I AM EDGEY-MC-EDGELORD PALADIN. LOOK AT ME. Also, Lay on Hands->Smite conversion.
Falconer: I love Birds. Try and expand the kinds of birds it can choose though-stat block wise. (more came out in Ultimate Wilderness, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Giant Owl or the Hawk-or what is Falcon?-added to the list of birds it can choose).

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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I realize this informal survey is not scientific. I'm mostly doing this for fun to get a "sense of the room" during a particular weekend.

I was fuzzy with methodology in my count. In part because so many people chose to break the rules in the thread and included non-core archetypes, I also cheated and included as a vote any positive comment made about an archetype in the thread so far.

That said, I'm sure I missed a couple. If someone else decides to keep a count and doesn't have the same number of votes, that's to be expected, within reason.

I have no particular dog in this hunt. I'm just interested in your anecdotal perspectives.

Ok, all that said, here's what I've got.

Archaeologist (Bard) 40 (!!!)
Lore Warden (Fighter) 24
Eldritch Scoundrel (Rogue) 22
Vivisectionist (Alchemist) 20
Arcane Duelist (Bard) 17
Zen Archer (Monk) 17
Tattooed Sorcerer (Sorcerer) 17
Titan Mauler (Barbarian) 16
Mooncursed (Barbarian) 13
Drunken Master (Monk) 12 (TIE)
Evangelist (Cleric) 12 (TIE)
Skirmisher (Ranger) 12 (TIE)

My top 5
Crossbowman (Fighter) granting some bonus to carefully aimed shot
Zen Archer (Monk) A solid option to the monk
Martial Artist (Monk) A mundame non-flashy option
Vivisectionist (Alchemist) Trading the bomb feature for another is good
Oathbound Paladin (Paladin) Remove the aligment restriction and made more clear the moral code.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

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Here are the Top 5, by class:

Vivisectionist 20
Promethean 9
Gun Chemist 7
Winged Marauder 7
Grenadier 6 (TIE)
Tinkerer 6 (TIE)

Titan Mauler 16
Mooncursed 13
Urban 13
Invulnerable Rager 11
Mad Dog 3

Archaeologist 40
Arcane Duelist 17
Dawnflower Dervish 7
Magician 6
Archivist 4 (Tie)
Dervish Dancer 4 (Tie)

Evangelist 12
Cloistered Cleric 10
Asmodean Advocate 6
Herald Caller 5
Ecclesitheurge 4

Goliath 10
Nature Fang 8
Swarm Monger 8
Reincarnated Druid 6
Storm Druid 5

Lore Warden 24
Mutation Warrior 10
Eldritch Guardian 4
Cad 3 (Tie)
Phalanx Fighter 3 (Tie)
Polearm Master 3 (Tie)
Tactician 3 (Tie)
Towe Shield Master 3 (Tie)

Zen Archer 17
Drunken Master 12
Quinggong Monk 10
Scaled Fist 10
Master of Many Styles 7 (Tie)
Monk of the Four Winds 7 (Tie)

Virtuous Bravo 10
Chosen One 8
Tortured Crusader 8
Oathbound Paladin 7
Gray Paladin 6

Skirmisher 12
Freeboter 7
Sword-Devil 5
Trapper 5
Dandy 3 (Tie)
Guide 3 (Tie)
Urban Ranger 3 (Tie)

Eldritch Scoundrel 22
Knifemaster 10
Phantom Thief 7
Counterfiet Mage 5
Scout 4

Tattooed Sorcerer 17
Crossblooded 10
Razmiri Priest/False Priest 6
Wildblooded 4
Sage 2 (Tie)
Sylvan 2 (Tie)

NOTE: Holy Hell, not a lot of votes for wizard archetypes...
Chronomancer 5
Pact Wizard 5
Scrollmaster 5
Spell Sage 5
Exploiter 4 (Tie)
Spellsinger 4 (Tie)
Sword Binder 4 (Tie)

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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I was about to fill out all my favorites, but they're pretty much all the top ones! But I would like to put my vote in for the Scrollmaster Wizard. I LOVE the concept of taking your arcane scrolls and using them as weapons and shields by investing more magic into them.

Erik Mona wrote:

Titan Mauler

The hamstrung published Titan Mauler or the original intended by its designer?

EDIT: apologies in advance if its been Errata'd to be the same.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

I really wish I had something to offer for this - since I *only* GM games, and since building unique characters is a huge time sink for GMs, I pay virtually no attention to archetypes.

I like them conceptually, but from the point of view of a GM, they're WAY too huge of a time sink for me to pay attention to.

I suspect players have a very different opinion, however. Kind of like how I'm sure they couldn't care less about templates but how they're pretty crucial for me.

Now is when I hear that templates are gone in 2E, I suppose :)

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  • Invulnerable Rager - Barbarian: I love this archetype. It feels like the perfect balance. It gives up things that sting but what you get seems worth it.
  • Stonelord - Paladin: Dwarven Paladins just seem like a staple, and the Stonelord is very flavorful and a lot of fun.
  • Spellbinder - Wizard: I love Wizards, and am very disappointed that spontaneous casting is so much more effective and versatile. This archetype gives Wizards a reason to exist.
  • Urban Barbarian - Barbarian: A lot of versatility expanding the Barbarian class.
  • Scaled Fist - Monk: Very flavorful

I would concentrate on Archetypes that gets you more mileage out of the class. Urban Barbarian can create a completely different beast than Barbarian. Scaled Fist, and Stonelord change the class' primary stats or gets rid of them. Invulnerable Rager and Spellbinder... well I love them and I'm selfish.

EDIT: Well shoot a lot has changed since I started writing this post, took to long looking over everything. Only had one even make the list.

I realized I thought I was listing top archetype for ALL classes but I forgot Cleric & Bard!
For Bard, I guess I'm not really that interested in an archetype for them being a priority.
For Cleric, my priority would be the "Caster Cleric" thematically addressed by Ecclesitheurge, Cloistered Cleric and Cardinal.
(none of those archetypes really felt satisfactory to me, but that is general thematic direction)
More spellcasting / equivalent powers, less armor/BAB/HD, more skills/knowledge, no/less channeling, possible change in casting mechanism.
(I could see mechanism with auxiliary slots allowing both classic cleric spells & limited arcane choices via spellbook)
I think I didn't mention it because I just wasn't sure what direction Paizo is going in with Core Cleric.

I guess my problem with Urban Terrain and Ranger/Urban Ranger is that Urban Ranger ends up MORE restricted re: using their ability in Urban settings (Favored Community is city/settlement-specific, without even retraining method, while vanilla Ranger who selects Urban terrain gets it in ALL "urban" settings. Seems like Urban Ranger should get baseline bonus in ALL urban settings AND community-specific benefits). I also felt Urban Ranger should get different spell list, like Bard, considering they lose Handle Animal and Know(Nature) Class Skills and Woodland Stride, why still the Nature Magic? And maybe option for Familiar instead of weak Animal Companion, given Bard list (and Grt Invisability and magical Trapfinding). At least keep Handle Animal class skill if they have even option for Animal Companion. If vanilla Ranger can still somehow select Urban Terrain (even via Feat requirement), then Urban Ranger doesn't really need to overlap Urban-Nature as much as it does IMHO.


Ninja. Samurai. Antipaladin. I personally really liked the Viking archtype and I suppose two-handed fighter.

1) Master of Many Styles for the Monk. Assuming styles will still be a thing in PF2.
2) Vivisectionist Alchemist. Maybe something less evil in feel, but I like sneak attack in place of bombs.
3) Skulking Slayer for the Rogue. Half-orc strength based rogue is so fun and d8 sneaks are awesome.
4) Iroran Paladin. I love the hand to hand paladin idea but I'm not completely satisfied with how it is implemented in PF1.
5) Skirmisher Ranger. This is actually part 1 of 3 of one of my favorite builds from pf1 (using skirmisher, wild hunter, and shapeshifter archetypes). But I like losing spells for some neat tricks.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Forgot about id rager (though it's extremely not Core) and the phantom thief. Having rogues who drop their fighting powers for more skill boosts is a really nice option for building certain characters - it makes a fabulous "noble" character, among other things. ^_^

Kalindlara wrote:
Forgot about id rager (though it's extremely not Core) and the phantom thief. Having rogues who drop their fighting powers for more skill boosts is a really nice option for building certain characters - it makes a fabulous "noble" character, among other things. ^_^

Don't forget though that in PF1 the Phantom Thief can take "combat trick" with as many as your rogue talents as you choose to. So you can build it into a pseudo-fighter if you want.

I really want this archetype back in PF2 because my least favorite part of playing a rogue is "lining up sneak attacks" and trading it for good stuff is aces in my book.

The Exchange

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Don't forget though that in PF1 the Phantom Thief can take "combat trick" with as many as your rogue talents as you choose to. So you can build it into a pseudo-fighter if you want.

I'm quite aware. ^_^

1)Lore Warden (Fighter) - But on the proviso that it stays closer to the original PFS Version and not the revised edition.
I like this archetype for much the same reason as my fifth choice on my list. The archetype takes the classic dumb-fighter with INT as a dump stat and knocks it clear away.

2)Vindictive Bastard (Paladin) - I personally loved this somewhat hidden gem. A working and realistic mechanic that could be applied to a fallen paladin without making him a sub-par fighter; at least while on the quest for retribution/corruption

3)The Squire/Guide/Torchbearer archetypes (I know, there is more than one there - but as the majority only instigated level 1-4 changes; they could all count as mini archetypes - or even be changed to a type of prestige class)

I personally really enjoy using Squire/Torchbearer in games; although I would welcome the option that they be held separate from each other AND Leadership.

4)Urban Ranger (Ranger) - I really enjoy this archetype as it gives possibly the single greatest reason for rogue-dips wihtout actually having to sink a few levels into rogue

5)Archeaologist (Bard)- What can I say? I am a fan of Gish characters and taking the bard's characteristic "Jack of Trades" feeling, then applying it to "Jack of all Knowledges" just makes sense.

Fighter: any battlefield control tank/linebreaker/threat marker/disruptive kind of deal
Paladin: Holy Shield
Rogue: Thug
Sorcerer: Wildblood variants
Cleric: anything that allows the cleric to focus more on spells at the expense of combat, or vice versa.

Dark Archive

* Holy Tactician (Paladin) - Provided a truly distinct experience from the traditional paladin that allowed him to fill a different role than he usually does.

* Ragechemist (Alchemist) - Really helped me to play up the risks of alchemy for hulk-esque characters. I think it needs some more fine-tuning as the detractors as-written are almost too debilitating by level 6. In any case, the risk-reward mechanic was a lot of fun.

* Songhealer & Arcane Healer (Bard) - While these two could never be taken together before, I think that there should be a definite bardic healer archetype, preferably consisting of some sort of merging of these two archetypes. I like seeing classes used creatively outside their normal niche.

*Packlord (Druid) - I like the idea of a herdsmen druid, but think that their animal companions fall out of usefulness too quickly as the game progresses. I think with harsher trade-offs, the archetype could become playable in the long-term by increasing the effective levels of all of their companions at certain later levels (10, 15, 20).

*Mutation Warrior (Fighter) - Could use a better name, but is otherwise a fun blending of alchemist and fighter.

Hmm...tough question.

Sandman (Bard)--I love the spellthief concept, and while I think thematically it fits better for a rogue, making it a bard with some rogue additions allows for less explaining of rules as bards already have spellcasting.

Skirmisher (Ranger)--Honestly, as a GM almost every ranger I make is a skirmisher or trapper. I don't really care for ranger magic and the skirmisher really gives some interesting options for combat whether its using an animal companion or not and regardless of fighting style.

Flowing Monk (monk)--I would say Qinggong, but that is pretty much handled with the Unchained monk, but monk had a lot of good archetypes that did not port over easily to unchained. The defensive counter attack options of Flowing monk is one of them. I think it worked well for creating a different style of fighting for the character.

Tinkerer (alchemist)--I kinda feel this is the closest to an actual machinist or artificer we got. Would love a version of this that is expanded on a bit more.

Serpent fire Adept (monk)--I really wish the chakra points system worked better. The saves were just too high for their payoff, especially compared to what could already be gained by Qinggong powers or the Unchained monk. But I would love to play a monk that is a master of chakra points--not just his own but his enemy's as well (way back in the day there was a Dragon magazine article that gave the monk pressure point attacks)

Erik Mona wrote:

NOTE: Holy Hell, not a lot of votes for wizard archetypes...

I'd say it's because the Wizard has so many options through school specialization, broad spellcasting and just regular feats and items that you can already fairly easily make exactly what you want to make without resorting to archetypes to advance or focus your character concept. I've hardly ever seen a wizard take one at any of the tables I've been at.

Now FAMILIAR Archetypes, that's a different situation. Everyone loves their familiar archetypes.

Dragonheir Scion (Fighter): Yes, this archetype is poorly written, what with the improper bonus feat levels and non-scaling arcane strike, but the flavor is great, it left weapon training intact, and it allowed for neat demoralizing setups.

Scaled Fist (Monk): I like dragons ok? Also allowing monks an alternative to wisdom is cool, and opened up the class to other races that normally wouldn't be good for monks

Warrior of the Holy Light (Paladin): a Paladin so Holy that their very presence inspires allies to fight harder and heals the sick and the wounded. That's Awesome.

Fire Bomber (Alchemist): Some people just want to watch the world burn. (If the new Iconic Alchemist is not one of these I will be severely disappointed)

Channeler Of The Unknown (Cleric): I've wanted an offensive Channel Energy Cleric to work. SO. BADLY. This archetype is the closest we've got to making it viable by allowing them to harm anything, with the extra bonus of giving you a deeper pool of daily Domain Spells to work with.

boo I say boo on the paladin ones.....

and as for the wizard ones. I like schools and elemental schools. the archtypes blow mega monkey stinky chunks

Bard - Archaeologist
Ranger - Skirmisher, Trapper
Fighter - Child of Acavna and Amazhen
Paladin - Stonelord

I was under the understanding that instead of Archtypes that we would have those class feats. I guess I no longer really understand how classes work now.

The only Archtype I really care about is
Chirurgeon Alchemist/Interrogator Alchemist. I don't see a point for a doctor alchemist to be crafting bombs it doesn't make much sense to me. Healing and sedating enemies seems way more speed of a doctor. The important thing though is the if the alchemist was less based on spells he could be a healer that doesnt rely on magic. I could also see him getting sneak attack from Vivisectionist instead because he knows his way around anatomy.

Five archetypes, huh? Alrighty.

Dervish Dancer (Bard) - There's something really appealing about a fast character swinging their blades through a horde of enemies or simply swinging all their blades onto a single one. Sadly, the current iteration doesn't give too many decent combat options from the get-go.

Scout (Rogue) - Staying mobile is supposed to be a rogue's thing. Fast, precise, and efficient. It's useful as it is, but it'd be nice if the rogue got something more out of it out than flinging themselves at an opponent and hoping they killed them while the rogue is taking negatives to their already subpar AC.

Knife Master (Rogue) - Two rogue entries? Madness! But seriously, you often see rogues with daggers and similar options in novels, movies, and video games. However, in the current iteration, sneak attack is do-or-die and daggers are fairly subpar.

Invulnerable Rager (Barbarian) - Why is this not what the barbarian is in the first place? A tanky big person who runs through and smacks their opponents all in the name of being angry. It gives a lot more than it takes, and I think resistances and damage reduction should be far more inherent to the barbarian than just this.

Skirmisher (Ranger) - Rangers are a fun class, but I've always felt kind of gated by some of the class features. This eliminates spellcasting, something I often groan at in the first place. I like the idea of a more mundane warrior being able to hunt in the wilds while taking down bad guys based off their own heads rather than some magical abilities. Sadly, the class doesn't come into play until later, and it's just subpar since quite a few of the better abilities can be replaced by feats.

Morvik wrote:
I don't see a point for a doctor alchemist to be crafting bombs it doesn't make much sense to me.

It does sound like common sentiment is that Mutagen/Potion/Melee aspect of Alchemist is disjointed from Bomb aspect of Alchemist, and they could both use more independent rather than simultaneous expression. Vivisectionist makes sense with Mutagen/Potion side like you say. I see the Bombs going more with Gun/Engineer angle, and more "environmental" effects rather than (psycho)physiological/creature-focused effects better suited for Mutagen side. I don't think Bombs necessarily need to go with the whole "fast bomb" thing, they're AoE already, how per round do you really need? Make them slower and more deliberate, less video game-y, and more "barely managing magi-tech alchemical tinker" to match gameworld. IMHO.

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Ohh. Really hard to limit my favorites to core classes, especially since the classes I love the most are APG and beyond.

Beastmorph Alchemist: I have a deep love of anything that makes your character more monstrous. Lots of customization and flavor potential. No matter what PF2e ends up being, please make sure our alchemists can still become absolute freaks <3

Metamorph Alchemist: Reading GT Waifu's response made me change this from what it used to be. "Wild Shape but for humanoids" is a really great concept and I hope that design space gets explored in PF 2e.

Thassilonian Specialist Wizards: Not sure if archetype. Might as well be. Strong connections to the lore, thematic ties to sin is a great initial hook for building a character's personality.

Sacred Servant Paladin: Domains are always fun, and deities have always been one of the cooler parts of Golarion's lore so anything that ties to them is fun by proximity. Having Planar Ally as a feature is fun, and having it work for free with a reasonable request is something I wish the base spell contained.

Evangelist Cleric: I'm a huge summoner fan so this speaks to me on that level, but the star is the skill count. I find 2-skillpoint classes to be frustrating and, when overpopulating PFS a table, a liability.

Elemental Ally Druid: The fact that you guys even considered this archetype makes my happy. AND it's used by a faction leader in Pathfinder Society, so the general acknowledgement of eidolons in the lore is greatly appreciated. Custom sentient allies are always great roleplay fodder, and it's extremely rare to see an elemental focused option that doesn't force you to buy an engagement ring for just one of the big four. If Beastmorph wasn't so dang fun I would call this the top one on my list. My only complaint is that your water elemental eidolon cannot swim and is capable of drowning until you go all the way to 8th level.

Bonus answer because I know our friends at paizo are watching.

Oozemorph anything: Okay, hear me out. I love love LOVE the flavor and theme of this, and the mechanics are a secondary concern. It could easily get rebooted as an Alchemist or Druid archetype. I really don't mind what class gets it, I just want to be a cuddly oozeboi/slimegirl. Bonus if druid gets it and your companion is just a chunk of yourself that broke off and gained its own will.

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My list isn't best to worst, just that this is a pretty premium list:

Sorcerer - Stormborn/Arial Wildblooded - For some reason I just love the air magic feel of the Arial/Stormborn sorcerer, and I would REALLY hope this finds its way into the core list of bloodlines over a generic elemental bloodline. While I understand why that would be preferable, such a specific bloodline makes for a better thematic experience. Also, Gozreh worshiping sorcerers are cool.

Rogue - Phantom Thief: Thoroughly believed to be one of the worst Rogue archetypes and the best skill user (funny that), I absolutely love the flavour of the archetype and hope to see something like it resurface in P2e, given the new proficiency rules.

Metamorph - Alchemist: An archetype about shapeshifting into different people and humanoid creatures is absolutely awesome to me. While its implementation into P1e is pretty mediocre, I would love to see another attempt at this concept in the new edition.

Paladin - Vindictive Bastard: Although I wouldn't be surprised to see this basically already an assumption for paladins in P2e, I would really hope that a paladin who falls from grace can have some cool class features if they take up an oath of being a complete jerk or unabashedly aligned solely to their own interests and those in their immediate friendship group. A heavily neutral paladin is a great concept and I want something like it again.

Rogue - Eldritch Scoundrel/Arcane Trickster: PLEASE, don't let this one be forgotten. Give us a rogue who gets spellcasting of some kind. I utterly LOVE Eldritch Scoundrel and think this is definitely something we need to see more of in the newest edition.

Erik Mona wrote:

NOTE: Holy Hell, not a lot of votes for wizard archetypes...

The sooner we forget about HH Pact Wizard the be-

Pact Wizard 5


My votes:

Aldori Swordlord (Fighter) - Because we need more ways for someone to fight smartly and this one is flavourful as hell. Plus I love the character designs for some of the swordlords we've seen in artwork.
Reincarnation Druid - "What the- I'm a kobold this time? Fuuuuuuu-"
Mooncursed Barbarian - I only actually found out about this archetype when I found this thread but dear god does this need to be a thing!
Spy (Rogue) - If I ever get into a campaign with ready access to Numerian tech, I need me a way to go Michael Westen on some guys.
Arcane Duelist (Bard) - Haven't played a bard yet but always liked the look of this one.

And, as a side note - consider this an extra request for a bard archetype that's specialised in the use of a hurdy-gurdy. This may have been influenced by all those Sea of Thieves streams that w4stedspace was doing while the beta was running. :P

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Here's my picks.

Achemist - Fire Bomber (*insert insane goblin laughter here*)
Druid - Leshy Warden (GIMME MAH BABIES)
Fighter - Two-Weapon Warrior (Shoanti, with their Thunder and Fang feat, are AWESOME)
Sorcerer - False Priest (IT'S YA BOI, RAZMIR!)
Wizard - Exploiter Wizard (How could I not? This thing is fun as hell to play!)

Grand Lodge

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Mutation Warrior (Fighter)
Archaeologist (Bard)
Invulnerable Rager (Barbarian)
Urban Barbarian
Martial Artist (Monk)

Silver Crusade

(Erik don’t tabulate me, I already voted) ;)

I spellthief concept in the Sandman bard is pretty neat! Can some of that stuff be stolen (haha) for the Eldritch Scoundrel please?

Also, since it’s a runaway popular hit as an archetype anyway, why not test out the basic rogue as ‘Unchained rogue, and if you’re using a dagger you get all the knife master bennies without trading out for an archetype’.

That way for stuff where you might decide to NEVER use a dagger, like ArT/EldScoundrel you’re choosing to commit heavily to the playstyle by trading out the knife master class feature(s) and there’s design space to do cool stuff for archetypes without always trading away trapspotting. Also it gives a powerful incentive for rogues to play into the class fantasy and use daggers.

Also, Fallen archetypes like the Vindictive Bastard I would like to see included from the get-go

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(Alchemist) Gloom Chymist - I love darkness effects. The gloom discoveries are a cool and flavourful way to expand upon the now-cold-and-darkness bombs.

(Druid) Storm Druid - Druid in charge of the weather. Changing out the summon nature's ally spells for domain spells let's me do what I actually want to do all day.

(Rogue) Vexing Dodger - This is archetype is for climbing onto enemies, poking their eyes, wildly flailing about and generally making life difficult for them. I don't know what else to say.

(Wizard) Shadowcaster - Another side of the darkness coin. I like the restriction of when the Wizard gets their bonus spell, and love the quasi-real shadow spells.

(Wizard) Spell sage - I think this archetype is what I would be if I were a Pathfinder character. A generalist wizard willing to take the time to get exactly the right answer. And being enough of a know-it-all for that solution to come from anywhere.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I can't quite think of 5, but Sword Binder for the Wizard is such a great concept but completely hampered by the fact that it's entirely useless in practice due to the wizard's low low BAB. I just really love the mental image of a wizard levitating on an oversized sword that he manipulates both for defense and offense. Sword wizard is a great concept.

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, TBH I would rather archetypes be implemented like you have described them in Starfinder. I much prefer to have archetypes as what "prestige classes" were before (since those were almost never used which was a highly unfortunate fact).

Buuuut, if we are going this route, I would say the following are most important to me:

1. Grenadier Alchemist. Unless you are completely redesigning the concept of the alchemist as a switch-hitter there need to be archetypes that allow players to focus on just ranged options without missing out on half the class's features. This archetype did a fantastic job of that. (also, poison redux plz)

2. Vivisectionist Alchemist (or one of the various beastmorph archetypes). For the same reason as #1 except melee instead of ranged. (though I think that it could use some consideration for redesign as I can't say I really cared for its execution).

3. Something to allow Ranger/Druid to be balanced without animal companions. (Sorry this is a bit broad) I always want to play these classes, but I simply do not like the animal companion/mount concept and probably never will. Thus I don't know the archetypes for them off the top of my head.

4. Martial Artist Monk. While I personally love the mysticism of the Monk class and enjoy playing it (particularly in its Unchained form) having the option to play a monk that isn't all about the mystical aspect of the class is very flavorful. Could use some redesign though...

5. Divine Hunter Paladin. Honestly, just any archetype that allows Paladins to be something other than the cliched heavy armor, shiny Greatsword-wielding warlords or shield-brothers. I like the concept of a paladin that uses a bow, or focuses on healing those wounded on the battlefield.

I guess my overall point is: We need archetypes to maintain the ability to keep classes flexible. I would prefer them to be a bit more like the way Starfinder uses them but either way they should be focused on enabling classes to change the flavor around the class rather than just having a bunch of archetypes intended to make each class look just like another class (seriously...these need to stop...please...let each class have its own identity)

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