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Just tabulated all posts so far. Will post when I have them sorted.
Agent: Consolidating some of the requests above for a general "agent" archetype. Adds things like stealth and disguise, apply to most any class for a different approach. I'd like this not to go into "gray morality" or come with that baggage.
Warlord: Have seen a lot of requests for a party-boosting Warlord option. Would be fun if this concept is available from multiple classes.
Dragon: ...is popular. Dragon bloodlines, dragon this, dragon that.
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Probably a bit late to this one, but... my top five, with an obvious theme:
Arcane Healer (Bard): I like the idea of making Bards even more 'constructive' like this. Got it on an Argent Dramaturge oriented Bard a while back and loved it.
Hexcrafter (Magus): Solely because it let me add a bit of healing to the class. That was all I wanted, and Hexcrafter delivered!
Hospitaler (Paladin): ...Yup, you guessed it; I like healing.
Dawnflower Dervish (Bard): Sarenrae-themed content is always fun for me.
Eldritch Scion (Magus): I like Cha-driven classes in general. This one came up a bit short in power, giving up too much for too little in return, but the idea of a Cha-driven melee/arcane hybrid was neat.
Sorry, going to cheat and add one more. Lore Warden (Fighter): Didn't like the execution, did like the idea; want to see more 'smart Fighter' support in general.
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Vote ranking so far...(up to my last post announcing tabulation)
FYI, the decimals are because when people didn't give clear preference to 5 or less votes, I included all of their choices but reduced the weighting (~80% if they gave 6 instead of 5), although people who made less than 5 votes didn't increase their weight. When it was clear somebody was just mentioning some more cool archetypes but not considering them equivalent to their actual vote selections, I ignored those additional mentions. (I made "additional" comments myself which I did not count as votes) Some entries include "sub-options" (like Elemental schools or Bloodlines) which don't add up to the total, this is because of votes for the general archetype not mentioniong any specific option. And to be clear, I counted this by hand with a text file keeping track, so don't expect perfection :-)
1 Archaeologist Bard 60.5
2 Vivisectionist Alchemist 33.3
3 Lore Warden Fighter 30.3
4 Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue 29.5
5 Titan Mauler Barbarian 25.3
6 Skirmisher Ranger 24.7
7 Arcane Duelist Bard 24.5
8 Zen Archer Monk 20.1 (1 attempted "down-vote" LOL)
9 Urban Barbarian 19.9
10 Varisian Tattooed Sorceror 18.9
11 Drunken Master Monk 16.7
12 Evangelist Cleric 16.2
13 Knife Master Rogue 16
14 Moon Cursed Barbarian 15.4
15 Scaled Fist Monk 15.3
16 Invulnerable Barbarian 15
17 Wildblooded Sorceror 14.3 (sage 3.3, sylvan 4, empyreal 2, stormborn 0.5, arial 0.5)
18 Grenadier Alchemist 14.1
19 Many Styles Monk 13.4
20 Dawnflower Dervish Bard 12.8
In the rankings per class, I chose to group closely related archetypes together while still giving individual result.
Alchemist
(separated by "melee"/"bombs-tinker"/"other" because intentional DE-emphasis of other "side" was mentioned by many posters)
Beastmorph 8.2
Metamorph 5.8
Rage Chemist 4.6
Eldritch Poisoner 2.8
Toxicant 1.7
Dragonblood 1
Grenadier 14.1
Tinker 8
Gun Chemist 7
Winged Marauder 6.3
Construct Rider 5
Fire Bomber 3
Alchemical Sapper 1
Crypt Breaker 1
Gloom Chymist 1
Saboteur 1
Trapper 1
Promethean 9.8
Chirurgeon 7.9
Mindchemist 5.5
Homonculist 3.5
Preservationist 3
Horticulturist 2.5
Mad Scientist 2
Sacrament Alchemist 2
Clone Master 1.6
Herbalist 1.5
Blood Alchemist 1
Ectoplasm Master 1
Interrogator 1
Reanimator 1
Royal Alchemist 1
Internal Alchemist 0.8
Barbarian
Titan Mauler 25.3
Urban 19.9
Moon Cursed 15.4
Invulnerable 15
Totem 3.8 + Savage 2 + Scarred Rager 2 + True Primitive 1 = 8.8
Armored Hulk 2
Dreadnought 2
Hurler 2
Mad Dog 2
Mounted Fury 1
Drunken Brute 1
Feral Gnasher 1
Flesheater 1
Wild Rager 1
Bard
Archaeologist 60.5
Arcane Duelist 24.5
Dawnflower Dervish 12.8
Archivist 6.5 + Studious Librarian 1.5 = 8
Sound Striker 6
Magician 5
Arrowsong Minstrel 4
Sandman 4
Thundercaller 4
Arcane/Song Healer 3
Juggler 3
Brazen Deciever 2.8
Mute Musician 2
Wit 2
Dirge Bard 1.6
Daredevil 1.7
Arbiter 1
Detective 1
Diva 1
Court Fool 1
Duettist 1
Solacer 1
Prankster 1
Silver Balladeer 1
Seasinger 1
Street Perfomer 1
Cleric
Evangelist 16.2
Cloistered 12.2
Angelfire 2.1 + Blossoming Light 2.8 + Merciful Healer 3 = 7.9
Ecclesitheurge 6.8
Cardinal 6.3
Crusader 5 + Mendevian 1 = 6
Herald Caller 5
Asmodean Advocate 4.7
Divine Paragon 4
Channeler Unknown 2.5 + Elder Mythos 1.5 = 4
(the previous 4 lines could be group of "Deity Specific Powers" = 17.7 combined)
Forgemaster 2.6
Separatist 2
Roaming Exorcist 2
Scroll Scholar 1
Undead Lord 1
Varisian Pilgrim 0.8
Druid
Fey Speaker 6.4 + Halcyon 4.5 + Menhir Savant 3.3 = 14.2
Goliath 9
Swarm 8.5
Animal Shaman 8.25 (Saurian 6.25, Lion 1)
Reincarnated 7
Nature Fang 6.5
Storm 5.7 + Tempest 0.7 = 6.4
Urban 4.6
Blight 4
Treesinger 3.8
Fungal Pilgrim 2.5
Leshy Warden 2.5
Feral Shifter 2
Kraken Caller 2
Packlord 2
Draconic 1.8
Elemental Ally 1.8
Supernaturalist 1.5
Skinshaper 1.8
Cave 1.5
Death 1
"Elemental" 0.8
Fighter
Lore Warden 30.3
Tactician 6.8 + Seasoned Commander 3 + Drill Sergeant 1.8 = 11.6
Mutagenic 10.8
Titan Fighter 5.6
Aldori Defender 5.5
Phalanx 2.8 + Polearm Master 2.7 = 5.5
Viking 5
Brawler 4
Cad 4
Eldritch Guardian 3.6
Armiger 3
Two Handed 3
Weapon Master 3
Child Acavna 2.8
Crossbowman 2
Dragoon 2
Martial Master 2
Skirmisher 2
Steelbound 2
TWF 2
Ustalavic Duelist 2
Siegebreaker 1.6
Aquanaut 1
Archer 1
Cavalier 1
Corsair 1
Dirty Fighter 1
Dragonheir Scion 1
High Guardian 1
Pack Mule 1
Trench Fighter 1
Unbreakable 1
Thunderstriker 0.8
Monk
Zen Archer 20.1
Drunken Master 16.7
Scaled Fist 15.3
Many Styles 13.4
Qigong 13.25
Martial Artist 12.8
Flowing 11
Four Winds 8
Sensei 7
Tetori 5 + Maneuver Master 2 = 7
Sohei 6.7
Empty Hand 5
Serpentfire 4
Nornkith 3
Water Dancer 2.8
Hungry Ghost 2.7
Ki Mystic 2
Elemental 1
Far Strike 1
Mantis 1
Weapon Adept 1
Iron Mountain 0.8
Paladin
Virtuous Bravo 11.6
Chosen One 11
Tortured Crusader 9.1
Oathbound 9
Grey 8.8
Divine Hunter 8
Iroran 7.6
Holy Light 6
Sacred Servant 5.8
Empyreal Knight 5
Stone Lord 4.8
Martyr 2.7
Holy Gun 2.5
Silver Champion 2.5
Tempered Champion 2.5
Vindictive Bastard 2.5
Hospitaler 1.5
Daring Champion 1
Divine Guardian 1
Holy Tactician 1
Redeemer 1
Sacred Shield 4
Mindsword 0.8
Shining Knight 0.5
Ranger
Skirmisher 24.7
Freebooter 9.6 + Guide 5 = 14.5
Urban Ranger 6.1 + Dandy 4.8 + Guildbreaker 1 = 11.9
Trapper 7
Sword Devil 6
Drake Warden 2.8 + Beastmaster 1 + Sable Co Marine 1 = 4.8
Falconer 3.8 + Ravenmaster 0.8 = 4.6
Fortune Finder 2.4
Divine Marksman 2
Demonslayer 1
"Elf" 1
Flamewarden 1
Ilsurian Archer 1
Infiltrator 1
Makeshift Scrapper 1
Shapeshifter 1
Witchguard 1
Trophy Hunter 0.5
Rogue
Eldritch Scoundrel 29.5
Knife Master 16
Ninja 11.8
Scout 10.25
Phantom Thief 8.6
Thug 5
Counterfeit Mage 3 + Eldritch Raider 0.5 = 3.5
Shadowdancer 3.4
Carnivalist 2.5
Poison 2
Underground Chymist 2
Vexing Dodger 1.6
Sczarni Swindler 1.5
Acrobat 1
Bellflower 1
Charlatan 1
Fey Prankster 1
Planar Sneak 1
Rake 1
Red Mantis Assassin 0.8
Skulking Slayer 1
Snare Setter 1
Sniper 1
Spy 1
Swashbuckler 1
Trapfinder 1
Sorceror
Varisian Tattoo 18.9
Wildblooded 14.3 (sage 3.3, sylvan 4, empyreal 2, stormborn 0.5, arial 0.5)
Crossblooded 12.8
Razmiran Priest 11.4
Genie Bloodline 1
Umbral Scion 1
Wizard
Scrollmaster 7.6
Spell Sage 7.6
Thassilonian 6.6
Chronomancer 6.4
Sword Binder 5.8
Pact 5.5
Elemental 5 (eastern 2 incl. void 1)
Exploiter 5
Siege Master 3.6
Spell Slinger 3.4
Undead Master 3
Primalist 2
Instructor 1.8
Bloat Mage 1.5
Bonded 1
Elder Mythos 1
Scroll Scholar 1
Shadow Caster 1
Spirit Whisperer 1
Hallowed Necromancer 0.8
What do you know? Three of my top five are currently in the top twenty! Yay me! :)
What do you know? Three of my top five are currently in the top twenty! Yay me! :)
Me too, for some of my Top 5 picks that made it to Top 20 and some of my favorites which I couldn't give a vote to yet still did OK. Although I guess the folks with 10 vote picks (there was 2 or 3) don't have to worry about that distinction B-D.
One thing I should add about the groupings I made in the Class rankings, was that it was VERY common for voters to mention other entries in the group in positive light, but they were forced to either vote only for one OR water down each individual vote if they voted for more than 5. That was clear with Fey Speaker/Halcyon/Menhir. Evangelist/Cloistered/Cardinal/Ecclesitheurge were also often mentioned together or imagined in combined archetypes, but I didn't group them because joint mentions didn't follow one clear pattern. Some of the groupings didn't even change the rank vs. the largest member's individual ranking, but including a low-ranked yet tightly related variation helped avoid that getting "lost" in bottom of list.
Vote ranking so far...(up to my last post announcing tabulation)
FYI, the decimals are because when people didn't give clear preference to 5 or less votes, I included all of their choices but reduced the weighting (~80% if they gave 6 instead of 5)
I know I'm beyond the time frame where you can edit this, but Hallowed Necromancer should be 1 instead of 0.8. Unless I'm mistaken, I was the only one who suggested it, and it was one of my top 5 choices - I didn't have a 6th, and my second post was exclusively for non-core archetypes.
What do you know? Three of my top five are currently in the top twenty! Yay me! :)
Meanwhile, I'm literally the only one to have thrown any love the way of the Alchemical Sapper... :(
Meanwhile, I'm literally the only one to have thrown any love the way of the Alchemical Sapper... :(
Don't worry, that's a great archetype concept, I've written how I highly prefer a sharp divergence between Mutagen/Self-Buffs and Bombs/Guns/Tinker stuff... emphasizing demolitions angle to Bombs rather than video-game rapid fire is 110% up my ally. I just couldn't fit it in my 5 votes, since I took that limit seriously.
P2E won't have identical class structure as before, it's likely that previously distinct archetypes could just become more Class Feats, certainly something like Alchemical Sapper should build upon general Bomb focus build even if it's exclusive with e.g. Beastmorph/Mutagen line. That's partly why I emphasized groups of archetypes, because the lines between them very likely may end up blurred. Just call Alchemical Sapper "The King of Bombs", what Grenadiers ASPIRE TO, and everything will appear in different light, Grenadiers' numbers are merely supporting The King of Bombs. :-)
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I know I'm beyond the time frame where you can edit this, but Hallowed Necromancer should be 1 instead of 0.8. Unless I'm mistaken, I was the only one who suggested it, and it was one of my top 5 choices - I didn't have a 6th, and my second post was exclusively for non-core archetypes.
Working as intended. Perhaps you were expressing your conceptual train of thought by mentioning in the same entry both Eldritch Scoundrel (Rogue) and Child of Acavna (Fighter) but whatever it was, was not a clear indication of single vote for single particular archetype. Thus, with an expression of support for 6 archetypes, the "max 5 vote" methodology kicked in, approximating each vote down to 0.8 value. Had you distinguished between one you wished to vote for, and one you weren't voting for but were simply discussing, the one clearly voted archetype would have received one vote tally... As I did for other cases where 5 votes were clearly indicated alongside mention of non-voted options ("conceptually related" or not). Others where they chose to express vote for "concept" covering multiple archetypes (I recall Urban Druid/Ranger/Barbarian) meant more than 5 archetypes were co-indicated as vote choice, and the methodology appropriately applied.
Monk: Monk of the Mantis
Alchemist: Tinkerer and Horticulturist
I have not written about these basic classes yet.
Really part of me would have loved to not count all the votes raving about a mechanic but saying nothing about flavor. But that was a hell of alot of votes, and discounting them all because I don't like the apparent reasons for their vote just isn't cool. (nevermind problem with ascertaining intent) I think anybody expecting exact copy of mechanics is in for a surprise, but I don't think that is necessarily applicable to everybody who commented on mechanical aspect - many mechanics CAN help fulfill narrative role, and players like when flavor is mechanically effective.
Actually, I suspect there are more archetypes which could be conceptually grouped together like I did for 'caster Druid', 'polearm fighter' etc, but I wasn't familiar enough with each and every archetype enough to recognize all of them. Anybody else of course is free to recognize those, or propose meta-groups which recognize conceptual trends etc, and combined group vote may better reflect interest in that concept than individual archetype mechanics.
Regardless, what shows up in Top 20 or whatever isn't the whole story, I think what is going on in middle of pack for each class ranking is just as important, and likely relevant to what Paizo produces. I doubt they are going to publish multiple Bard, Barbarian, and Monk archetypes but nothing in some other classes simply because that is how top ranking came out. How Paizo is even approaching these 'archetypes' is itself an open question AFAIK, some are speculating they could just be Class Feat chains etc (exclusive or not).
Really part of me would have loved to not count all the votes raving about a mechanic but saying nothing about flavor. But that was a hell of alot of votes, and discounting them all because I don't like the apparent reasons for their vote just isn't cool.
I agree Quandary, because there is no guarantee that 2e Archetypes will be carbon copies of their 1e equivalents, but it would be hard to know where to draw the line. Mechanics can create flavor.
Would the BoltAce count as a mechanics suggestion or a flavor suggestion? The same could be said for the Sohei; PCs often have a signature weapon - does opening up the Monks Flurrying pool allow players to Min-Max or does it allow players to create a swift spear-wielding Oberyn style character?
PF is a game of flavor and mechanics, and some players are more interested in one side than the other. Should Team Roll Play really have less of a vote than Team Role Play?
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{. . .}
5.) Hallowed Necromancer (Wizard)
Necromancy has gotten the short end of the stick for the longest time. They're almost universally considered evil, and it is considerably difficult in normal circumstances to have a Necromancer character and be able to say they're a good character without suspicion or questioning. The Hallowed Necromancer helps combat that - they are the good Necromancer, using their knowledge to combat evil as opposed to spreading it, being able to recreate (ranged!) cure spells to defeat undead. The inclusion of the Hallowed Necromancer and perhaps more emphasis on Necromancy not being inherently evil in the first year would help combat the stigma Necromancy as a school of magic normally faces.Related to this, put the "Conjuration (Healing)" spells back in Necromancy, where they belong.
Good news for you, they are! This was confirmed in one of the podcasts.
As for the topic:
Invulnerable Rager: Because having pecs of steel is fun!
Burglar: Because I love thieving thieves that thieve.
Tattooed Sorcerer: Because dem tattoos. Seriously I love the idea of writing magic on your skin to call upon when needed
Martial Artist: Because I like my Chaotic Monks. Also, Pain Points!
Skirmisher: Because I prefer my Rangers without spells, and this option is real cool.
Correct, but same goes for Elemental Schools, and people even included some PrCs (Bloatmage, Shadowdancer). People were also advocating Wildblooded stuff to not be an archetype, but it would seem strange to thusly discount their choice of Wildblooded/Mutant Bloodlines. We don't really know exactly how Paizo plans to use this, it may not be focused on development of direct analogs to archetypes, so I wasn't going to not count such posts, which were still pointing to specific character build options, and not just vague harangues of "non-Vancian pointcasting RULEZ!" (nobody actually went there)
Although if you want to reconsider getting "Thassilonian Archetype Rocks!" tattooed on your butt, I won't suggest otherwise.
I know I'm beyond the time frame where you can edit this, but Hallowed Necromancer should be 1 instead of 0.8. Unless I'm mistaken, I was the only one who suggested it, and it was one of my top 5 choices - I didn't have a 6th, and my second post was exclusively for non-core archetypes.Working as intended. Perhaps you were expressing your conceptual train of thought by mentioning in the same entry both Eldritch Scoundrel (Rogue) and Child of Acavna (Fighter) but whatever it was, was not a clear indication of single vote for single particular archetype. Thus, with an expression of support for 6 archetypes, the "max 5 vote" methodology kicked in, approximating each vote down to 0.8 value. Had you distinguished between one you wished to vote for, and one you weren't voting for but were simply discussing, the one clearly voted archetype would have received one vote tally... As I did for other cases where 5 votes were clearly indicated alongside mention of non-voted options ("conceptually related" or not). Others where they chose to express vote for "concept" covering multiple archetypes (I recall Urban Druid/Ranger/Barbarian) meant more than 5 archetypes were co-indicated as vote choice, and the methodology appropriately applied.
Ah, I see. I should've clarified then, my bad
Good news for you, they are! This was confirmed in one of the podcasts.{. . .}
5.) Hallowed Necromancer (Wizard)
Necromancy has gotten the short end of the stick for the longest time. They're almost universally considered evil, and it is considerably difficult in normal circumstances to have a Necromancer character and be able to say they're a good character without suspicion or questioning. The Hallowed Necromancer helps combat that - they are the good Necromancer, using their knowledge to combat evil as opposed to spreading it, being able to recreate (ranged!) cure spells to defeat undead. The inclusion of the Hallowed Necromancer and perhaps more emphasis on Necromancy not being inherently evil in the first year would help combat the stigma Necromancy as a school of magic normally faces.Related to this, put the "Conjuration (Healing)" spells back in Necromancy, where they belong.
Oh, really? Huh, that's actually really cool
Thassilonian Specialist isn't archetype though, by raw its alternate casting system, right?
Correct, but same goes for Elemental Schools, and people even included some PrCs (Bloatmage, Shadowdancer). People were also advocating Wildblooded stuff to not be an archetype, but it would seem strange to thusly discount their choice of Wildblooded/Mutant Bloodlines. {. . .}
Thassilonian Specialist came out before Pathfinder archetypes came out; it seems like an archetype (actually set of 7 archetypes) in all but name.
Count me in on wanting Wildblooded to be counted not as a set of archetypes, but as the Bloodline equivalent of Subdomains. But the Bloodlines (including Wildblooded) really need a major cleanup anyway -- they are not balanced with each other, and the organization is a real aggravation (made worse by the parent Bloodlines of Wildblooded Bloodlines not having any pointers to the Wildblooded Bloodlines). Also, Sorcerer and Bloodrager Bloodlines very often do not correspond 1 to 1. If Pathfinder 2nd Edition wasn't coming, I would say we need an Unchained Sorcerer, with not much change to the class itself (except bump up the skill ranks per level, but that goes for Fighter too), but to clean up the Bloodlines (and clean up the Bloodrager Bloodlines at the same time, although that is more to make sure that they correspond 1 to 1).
Would be interesting new archetype ranger with the replacement of spells for alchemy (4 levels)
^Make it be like a Herbalist Alchemist, and this would be pretty good (like someone who brews healing remedies like Aragorn, but doing it more often).
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1. Witch archetype Druid. Witch's mark (granting some sorcerer-like powers), familiar, witch's teat, poppets, evil eye (or two if eyes are heterochromatic)... I'd get medieval. Pick a season and throw in a thematic "Winter Witch" or "Summer Witch" ability. Could do a similar archetype with the alchemist, to focus on the witch's brew angle.
2. Cloistered Cleric, but I would like the base cleric to be cloistered and an archetype to throw on some armor. (I know this will never happen, but that's what I want.)
3. Archaeologist Bard, but there are so many ways to go bard, including dervish, storyteller (power is to take a limited DM-like role to change the story), or lover (probably called a "romantic" or some such).
4. Chirurgeon Alchemist or some other science variant (Chymist, Tinker, Homunculus, Vivisectionist could all be interesting).
5. Armiger Fighter who is always working on his armor and has grappling hooks, hidden blades, etc. built into it.
I'm sure I went OT...
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^Make it be like a Herbalist Alchemist, and this would be pretty good (like someone who brews healing remedies like Aragorn, but doing it more often).
I could go for a nature focused Alchemist that combines the best parts of Herbalist, Horticulturist and Bramble Brewer - All three are based around the same concept, with more than a little overlap. Lets do it once and put the excess features into Discoveries/Alchemist Feats.
Hm, I found this thread pretty late, it seems. My list has little to do with the most popular out there:
Kraken Caller Druid
Court Bard
Preservationist Alchemist
Undead Scourge Paladin
Alley Witch
As for the reasons, it's pretty much the same two every time:
- Great flavor
- Perfect fit with the AP I wanted to play them in (OK, maybe not the preservationist, this one was just for the cool factor; but definitely the other four).
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Thug Rogue - debuff capability at low level (two debuffs from level 2)
Freebooter Ranger - at-will party buffing from level 1
Qinggong Monk - modular options including spell-like abilities
Vivisectionist Alchemist - completely remove one aspect to focus on another (at level 1)
Trapper Ranger - completely remove one aspect to focus on another
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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As I ponder this, I realize that I often don't see a lot of archetypes in play in my local groups. There are so many base classes I haven't tried yet that I really have to commit to the modification because that's likely the only way I'll get to play that class.
In no particular order:
Chirurgeon (alchemist) - I like the idea of a "less magical" healer who uses Science!. Not sure this one actually lives up to the promise though.
Chronomancer (wizard) - I like time magic. I actually played a chronomancer back in AD&D2e which drove that poor DM nuts.
Skirmisher (ranger) - Good to have a spell-less ranger option.
Urban Barbarian (barbarian) - I like how this modifies rage.
Zen Archer (monk) - I just like the flavor on this one a lot.
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My top 5:
Scaled Fist - Monk
Eldritch Scoundrel - Rogue
Dandy - Ranger
Tattooed Sorcerer
Green Scourge - Druid
Most of mine have been mentioned before, but the Green Scourge from Monster Hunter's Handbook is one that I enjoy that I haven't seen mentioned. It has both engaging flavor as a druid dedicated to eradicating aberrations and decent mechanics to back it up. It opens a different way to play a combat-focused druid.
My Top 5
- Qinggong (Monk): This is just a given, every Monk is a Qinggong Monk.
- Scaled-Fist (Monk): Who doesn't want to play a CHA-based Monk???
- Master of Many Styles (Monk): As you can tell, i really love me some Monk. Master of Many Styles is probably the coolest Monk archetype as it allows you to use multiple different martial arts styles at the same time, very reminiscent of classic Kung-Fu movies that show tales of exceptional martial artists who would switch from one style to another, flawlessly, against an opponent
- Tattooed Sorcerer (Sorcerer): Super rad, nuff said
- Eldritch Scoundrel (Rogue): Probably the most popular Rogue archetype for a reason
The only archetype I care about seeing from day one is the Appeaser for the Cleric class. I've played the same Cleric of Lamashtu for years, and the Appeaser really made my concept for the character come to life. Playing someone who worships an Evil God out of practicality rather than maliciousness is very appealing to me.
Druid- Swarm Monger druid: I have enjoyed this immensely, though at the same time its breakable with a little effort. But I love the alternate take on the druid, and insects has generally been a neglected focus.
Rogue- Eldrich Scoundrel: simply love adding magic to the class. It opens up SO MUCH, though I wish they would have been able to continue wearing armor.
Cleric- Cloistered Cleric. Everyone wants a cleric that is less "beatstick" and actually has some skills, but the sacrifice for gaining it was too much in its current incarnation. Would love to see it in an improved version.
Paladin-Grey Paladin: Another thematic idea gone poor mechanically. Love the idea of a less strict/morally grey paladin ( the code causes SO many issues, and is a leftover balance point from 2e, that is more hindrance than balance now)
Bard-Archeologist: This biggest draw of this archetype is its efficiency. Since you can only have one song, you generally only NEED one song, but you are given more than you ever use. THis archetype fit flavor and fluff to mechanics, providing a single all around useful benefit to yourself. Would like to see it have later improvements where it provides a smaller benefit to the group, though.
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Too many great archetypes. I like many of the popular ones, but I've also overplayed some so they don't seem as fresh or interesting.
If we're just limiting this to Core + Alchemist, my top 5 in no order are:
1. tortured crusader (paladin)
2. mute musician (bard)
3. cardinal (cleric)
4. cad (fighter)
5. martial artist (monk)
All of these change lots of fundamentals about how I play the character. They also aren't just reskinned. I hope that the PF2 archetypes are unique and not just reskins.
My top archetypes (based mainly on how much I want to play them) would have to be:
Alchemist - Master Chymist: Not really an archetype, but I've always wanted the Master Chymist PrC to get reinterpreted as one, and I almost always dip into Chymist when playing a melee Alchemist. Experimenter Vigilante came real close to the archetype I was looking for, though we still never got anything for the Alchemist.
The Master Chymist's approach to involuntarily entering "combat mode" is the best of its kind. Other mechanics that work that way tend to just kill you (Rage Chemist) or kill the party (Brute, Wild Rager). By making your combat mode a distinct alternate personality, it lets you and the GM figure out how deal with accidentally "Hulking Out".
My favorite part of the MC, though, has got to be that it actually gives you another alignment, rather than keeping your Mr. Hyde purely fluff. It's possible to fluff mutagens (or even rage or polymorph spells) as unlocking an alternate personality, but Master Chymist gives you mechanics to back that up.
Ultimately, the Master Chymist was what sold me on the Alchemist when I was making my first proper character, and to some extent, it's what sold me on the whole game. I really hope it doesn't get forgotten in PF2
Cleric - Ecclesitheurge: IMHO, the best of the "Caster Cleric" archetypes. Cardinal had the right idea, but gave up an awful lot just for extra skill ranks.
Paladin - Martyr: One of my favorite flavors of Paladin. Cool flavor and mechanics, rather than just one or the other as a lot of archetypes have ended up.
Barbarian - Mooncursed: Even though the the Beastkin Berserker is probably mechanically better, the Mooncursed really helps rage feel like a "combat form" instead of just a basic stat buff.
Druid - Storm Druid: A lot of archetypes helped "unfocused" classes better play to one strength or the other. While Druids never really got the wild-shape archetype people wanted, they did get some neat caster archetypes. The Storm Druid lets you play the Druid as more of a controller and blaster, and really fits my image of that windswept Old Man of the Sea.
This is a tough one
lets see
1. Zen Archer Monk - the Archery was pretty cool lore wise and they were still melee capable in a pinch
2. Qinggong Monk - I was so happy to see the qinggong monk integrated in uc monk, the new options and abilities make a monk so much more interesting to play
3. Hooded Champion Ranger - I really always liked panache options
4. Beast Rider Cavalier (especially if the GM allows rather exotic mounts)
5. Every fighter Archetype that transformed him from "I have the most feats hurr durr" into something interesting
1. Tempered Champion Paladin
2. Goliath Druid
3. Juggler Bard
4. Scaled Fist Monk
5. Chronomancer Wizard
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My favorite Alternate class was the Antipaladin. It deserves to remain one.
As for my top five 'core' archetypes to become 'class-specific archetypes'
Cardinal (Cleric): Appropo because the terms cleric and cardinal both imply rank, and cardinal would be a step up for the cleric implying more social influence.
Armiger (Fighter): Appropo because 'Hellknights only accept the best, of the best, of the best, sir!'.
Qinggong (Monk): Ki magic? Yes please, can I have some more?
Ninja (Rogue): Ki magic for Rogues? Pretty please?
Promethean Alchemist (Alchemist): An archetype (read class-feat-chain) to acquire a Homumculus companion would be very, very nice.
My favorite Alternate class was the Antipaladin. It deserves to remain one.
I think they mentioned that there was an antipaladin in Doomsday Dawn. I have no idea how complete the rules to build such a beast are, but someone I'm sure can take it apart and reverse engineer it.
Sticking to the new core 12 will be hard, since they're actually probably my least played, but for me:
Archaeologist Bard: I like about half of the bard's schtick. This archetype made it easy to keep the parts that I like (at least without having to justify giving a rousing speech every battle, because I picked perform(Oratory) [which just so happens to lead me to...])
Seasoned Commander (Fighter): Far more than the two classes it cribbed from, this fighter archetype was one that filled the tactician/marshal role. The fact that it had non-terrible Skills was also a bonus (though honestly it should have long been standard, but still).
Grey Paladin/Vindictive Bastard (Paladin): The less said the better, for the sake of the thread, but I will say that this is only by necessity, rather than actually being wanted. Were there better options...
Druid Terrain Archetypes: Ok, this also isn't actually a favorite PF1e archetype. But it's one that I found interesting, even if it was kind of bad in practice. I want to see this in PF2e in a way that really works well.
Kensai/Zen Archer: These archetypes were interesting not in their power (ok, yes, they were powerful. Extremely so in many instances), but at least for me, more in the flavor. The monk being an unarmed striker (at least in 1e, where unarmed was pretty bad), had me gravitate towards Ki based weapon users. While I never actually played either of these archetypes, I did build a number of hypothetical characters., and I'm kind of attached to the notion of a weapon-user monk.
My favorite Alternate class was the Antipaladin. It deserves to remain one.I think they mentioned that there was an antipaladin in Doomsday Dawn. I have no idea how complete the rules to build such a beast are, but someone I'm sure can take it apart and reverse engineer it.
I suspect it was built as an NPC like Blackguards of old.
1) Tetori Monk - I love the flavor, but also I think there needs to be an archetype that focuses on combat maneuvers. Maybe even something like Master of Many Maneuvers. Should be reasonable to make it accessible to any class, particularly martials.
2) Hospitaler Paladin - The concept of a Paladin that focuses a bit more on help and healing rather than direct and sudden violence.
3) Warden Ranger - The concept of someone in touch with the land about them, different terrains and biomes. Could be opened to any nature-loving class perhaps.
4) Sound Striker Bard - Mechanically not so great. But who wouldn't want to be Paul Atreides.
5) As a wild card, one from 3.5, Master of Many Forms. Specifically the fact that they give up spellcasting for greater wild shape flexibility and quantity. The 3.5 version was ridiculous in its cheese potential, but with the reforms you've done to polymorph magic I feel confident you could make it happen.
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Archeologist -> Its simple another class. Your removed what made a bard from a bard, used the kwowledge chassis, and in essense made a new class somehow cooler than some existing classes.
Myrmidarch Magus -> Common magus is king of low and mid levels, but without Armor expertize e Weapon Training they start to fall behind HARD cause of no inate boost to attack (Slayer target, Favored enemy, Weapon training, smite...) Adding the 3/4 BAB, for high level play, a Magus NEED to be a Myrmidarch to continue being a Magus and not be reduced to full time casting. The problem is that Myrmidarch gives a lot more than it receives and would be more balanced if it removed ranged spellstrike and improved ranged spellstrike and kept spell recall/improved spell recall.
Lore Warden -> One of the very fews fighter archetypes that are not plain weaker than the original and adds a cool flavor.
Viking (fighter) -> Cool archetype cause it trades one ability that a fighter NEEDs (weapon training) but get another very powerful one that is competitive (rage).
Staffmagus -> I find a little weak, but like the concept as a option.
Cirurgeon Alchemist -> I like any non-divine healing.
Mindchemist -> In some ways i find that the concept of the Mindchesmist makes more sense than the concept of the normal mutagen. Folklore aside, i think that if magic was a thing in the real world and your inteligence would be a factor in the complexity of the formulas you can learn and do, mental magical enhances would be a more common pursuit to the students of alchemy than mind damaging steroids.
Guide ranger -> Ranger without favored enemies that dont suck, dont have animal companion, and is pure win. And the name fits a ranger theme.
Viking (fighter) -> Cool archetype cause it trades one ability that a fighter NEEDs (weapon training) but get another very powerful one that is competitive (rage).
And that's arguably not the best or even second-best feature of the archetype. Very crunchy, very flavorful.
In descending order:
1. Undead Master (Wizard) (This was pretty much the perfect necromancer archetype for me, but I'd love some pale master/true necromancer archetypes from libris mortis)
2. Synthesist Summoner (Summoner) (I love how it played, it felt like you were playing a genetic monstrosity that constantly evolved)
3. Empyreal Knight (Paladin) (Giving up Divine Grace hurt, but ascending to become an angel? How much cooler can you get?)
4. Zen Archer (Monk) (I loved the idea of an archer monk, a monastic dedication to the art of the bow)
5. Forgemaster (Cleric) (A master craftsman with rune magic? Casting bonuses versus armor and weapons? Sign me up!)