Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide

I am on fire about the duskwalker, genie bloodline, and Iron wall. Would love to see the Barbarian options (Hoping for a no-magic and a storm style barb, but really I'd be happy just to know XD) I can't even let myself think about the 30-some archetypes!

An anti-magic Barbarian that isn't quite as unfun as the playtest Superstition Barbarian would be a delight.

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

One who strives to keep the balance? One who serves an impartial force like nature or death?

Nine alignments => nine subclasses of champion. IMO. How exactly that should work I dunno. We have the three good alignments. I suppose they want to do the three neutral (on the good-evil axis) ones next, and the three evil ones eventually. Or vice-versa. Or not. I dunno.

Nine alignments => nine subclasses of champion. IMO. How exactly that should work I dunno. We have the three good alignments. I suppose they want to do the three neutral (on the good-evil axis) ones next, and the three evil ones eventually. Or vice-versa. Or not. I dunno.

Evil are confirmed for this book. People are musing over how to have a champion of neutrality, whether or not they come in the APG or later.

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

Given that far more people play Neutral characters than Evil characters the fact that Paizo is doing Evil Champions first really shows how hard it is to come up with a compelling narrative focus for the Neutrals.

John R. wrote:

20 of the 40 PF1 classes covered in the first year. Possibly even more through archetypes not mentioned........ XD

Gotta speedrun through the PF1E content to get to the truly original stuff for the next 10 years!

It's just, this book's description alone speaks volumes about the superior quality of PF2's product development over that of the latest edition of a certain other big name RPG. Keep on keeping it real Paizo! Don't sell out and get lazy.

Praise by insulting others and edition warring aren't really productive.

(I'm not even sure what that last part even means)

CorvusMask wrote:

Even more confused now ._.;

It's from Spongebob, an early episode about an urban legend called "The Hash-Slinging Slasher."

Folks, when someone doesn't get a reference, doubling down on being obtuse isn't fun for anyone. C'mon.

My apologies, Corvus.

Daemoro wrote:

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

Given that far more people play Neutral characters than Evil characters the fact that Paizo is doing Evil Champions first really shows how hard it is to come up with a compelling narrative focus for the Neutrals.

We could have a lawful neutral champion of law and a chaotic neutral champion of chaos.

The true neutral champion is the tricky one. Champion of balance maybe? A deliberate balance between law and chaos would be more rational than between good and evil.

Spamotron wrote:

Daemoro wrote:

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

Given that far more people play Neutral characters than Evil characters the fact that Paizo is doing Evil Champions first really shows how hard it is to come up with a compelling narrative focus for the Neutrals.

We could have a lawful neutral champion of law and a chaotic neutral champion of chaos.

The true neutral champion is the tricky one. Champion of balance maybe? A deliberate balance between law and chaos would be more rational than between good and evil.

Champion of balance between good and evil would probably be someone who prefers good, but recognises it can’t sustain itself without power and moral compromise. This kind of champion might willfully organize a mercenary raid on a peaceful town with overly lax security, when attempts to compel the town’s leadership to corrective action fail. Or they might come to the aid of a diabolist noble who summons devils but generally does more good than harm to the people around them in their, when they get caught in a dangerous scandal with an Iomedaean church.

Honestly, N Champion concept seems the most interesting to me, because it challenges the biggest typecast about that alignment, which is that it is passive about its beliefs, and prefers reaction to proaction.

So, one thing that's interesting to me is the idea that we could, potentially, have multiple champion causes for any given alignment. There's more than one way to play a given alignment, so why would a given alignment have only one champion type? For a True Neutral champion, I feel the envoy of balance prestige class from PF1 could work as inspiration, as could a character championing a balance between life and death (hi Pharasma!).

Kobold vigilantes? Sold.

Black-scaled kobold investigator vigilantes with vestigial wings like a cape...

>.>

<.<

...I'll show myself out. :)

So, one thing that's interesting to me is the idea that we could, potentially, have multiple champion causes for any given alignment. There's more than one way to play a given alignment, so why would a given alignment have only one champion type? For a True Neutral champion, I feel the envoy of balance prestige class from PF1 could work as inspiration, as could a character championing a balance between life and death (hi Pharasma!).

*nods*

A Champion of Gorum is different than a Champion of Nocticula is different than a Champion of the Speakers of the Depths.

So, one thing that's interesting to me is the idea that we could, potentially, have multiple champion causes for any given alignment. There's more than one way to play a given alignment, so why would a given alignment have only one champion type? For a True Neutral champion, I feel the envoy of balance prestige class from PF1 could work as inspiration, as could a character championing a balance between life and death (hi Pharasma!).

Responding to Feros in another thread, I mentioned how a Tenet of Law might offer home for Lawful Neutral Champion, but also Lawful Good and Lawful Evil Champions... just ones who emphasize Law more than Good or Evil, as Good/Evil Champions mostly do.

I don't think that was so much what you were aiming for, as much as different Causes of same Alignment within the same Tenet stable. Also in that thread, it was discussed how Pharasmin/Soul Cycle Cause doesn't really need differing Alignment than Nature Cause, so those could be examples of identical Alignment Tenet/Cause with differentiated paths. Those are strongly unique (even in Tradition, Divine VS Primal), which I think is good requirement to do that. Otherwise, unique nuances can just hinge on Deity or other particularity, and offer their unique Feats (with distinct particularities already accounted for in Deity Anathema).

Well, we did learn from tonight's Twitch that they didn't create any neutral (neither good nor evil) champions in this book.

My players are so happy with the new extra stuff as well as what we knew before, and if they are happy and excited then so am I, LOL

Day 1 buy!!

:)

keep it going team!!

Tom

So, spell-casting Rangers are confirmed for this book, but what about spell-casting Champions? Or is the spell-casting the Rangers will newly be able to do the same focus spell-casting the Champion can already do?

It seems to me the current paradigm is that Champions (and Rangers?) might have focus spells, but if they want anything close to the kind of spell casting they had in 1st edition, they'll need to take a spellcasting dedication. Note that this gives them more options that 1st edition did (without multiclassing) because they can take a dedication in any of the four traditions.

The Twitch stream specifically said Ranger spell-casting will be Focus based, which would be similar to Champion or Monk.

The most important thing:

This books needs to have the unofficial iconic anti-paladin (the master of kicking pigs and painting signs) be the example build for CE champion variation :D

I think I'm most excited for the champions of evil, and would love to see if champions of neutrality get added in this book as well. Specifically I just don't like the idea of a LG champion hellknight but would have really loved a LN champion option for a hellknight build. Instead of the LG champion I ended up settling with a LN fighter for my hellknight build.

I'm also really excited some of the archetypes and classes. Interested to see shadowdancer in particular.

Just dropping a link to this great writeup by DMW on the APG playtest postmortem and content preview from the above mentioned Twitch stream.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vcf?Playtest-Retrospective-Summary

I think I'm most excited for the champions of evil, and would love to see if champions of neutrality get added in this book as well.

The Twitch stream specifically stated that there'll be NO neutral champions in this book (unfortunately), but haven't ruled out the possibility for them being in the next rulebook if they come upon a compelling hook for ALL three flavours of neutral...

I'm also really excited some of the archetypes and classes. Interested to see shadowdancer in particular.

Hope you're a fan of at least one of the following four classes in the book then:

I know I am!
:D

Carry on,

--C.

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

I would imagine a neutral champion is someone who embodies balance, but moreso someone whose motto is "I fight so that everyone can find their own place in the world."

Nine alignments => nine subclasses of champion. IMO. How exactly that should work I dunno. We have the three good alignments. I suppose they want to do the three neutral (on the good-evil axis) ones next, and the three evil ones eventually. Or vice-versa. Or not. I dunno.

I am hoping for MORE than one subclass for alignment.

Along with others here I'm hoping for a Neutral Champion Order... other than one with "Druish" tendencies I can't think of another neutral champion other than maybe a "Knight of Meh".

We are no longer the Knights of Meh, we are now the Knights of Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptang Zoo Boing!

This looks like a great book!

Dragon disciple. :)

July? ... so long T___T

I too am happy for the dragon disciple.

this is awesome, can't wait. but why are all the new "core books" coming out at 50 dollars? bleh

P1’s Advanced Player’s Guide was $44.99, prices go up a bit in a decade.

I just hope the pdf is $15.

It's not so much that prices go up as that the value of a dollar goes down.

cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier cavalier

I do like that "familiar master" is one of the listed archetypes. While I would have preferred more familiar interaction inside the witch class, I'm optimistic this will work well enough for my interests.

Just dropping a link to this great writeup by DMW on the APG playtest postmortem and content preview from the above mentioned Twitch stream.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vcf?Playtest-Retrospective-Summary

In the OP of the thread with DMW's breakdown of the Twitch stream, it seems to indicate that the versatile heritages for all ancestries introduced in this book are like the Half-Elf and Half-Orc heritages for Humans. Is that the case? And if so, are they exclusive (i.e., is there no such thing as an Aasimar Half-Orc or a Dhampir Half-Elf)?

Xethik wrote:

Just dropping a link to this great writeup by DMW on the APG playtest postmortem and content preview from the above mentioned Twitch stream.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vcf?Playtest-Retrospective-Summary

In the OP of the thread with DMW's breakdown of the Twitch stream, it seems to indicate that the versatile heritages for all ancestries introduced in this book are like the Half-Elf and Half-Orc heritages for Humans. Is that the case? And if so, are they exclusive (i.e., is there no such thing as an Aasimar Half-Orc or a Dhampir Half-Elf)?

Unless they introduce rules that allow you to take more than one heritage then yes they’re exclusive.

So this is the Gen Con drop for next year?

Xethik wrote:

Just dropping a link to this great writeup by DMW on the APG playtest postmortem and content preview from the above mentioned Twitch stream.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42vcf?Playtest-Retrospective-Summary

In the OP of the thread with DMW's breakdown of the Twitch stream, it seems to indicate that the versatile heritages for all ancestries introduced in this book are like the Half-Elf and Half-Orc heritages for Humans. Is that the case? And if so, are they exclusive (i.e., is there no such thing as an Aasimar Half-Orc or a Dhampir Half-Elf)?

What an interesting concept. I think I could be accepting of it if that was the case (with the idea being that the asimar or damphir pushes out all but the most superficial visual elements of a half race, E.G. a half elf damphire would be an elf or human damphire. But it will be interesting to see if they have some other solution even if I cannot picture it.

But I imagine they are avoiding looking at thirds races, quarter races and fifths races.

Those rules, if they are made, are most likely to show up in the GMG, not here, and will most likely consist of just letting PCs select more than one Heritage.

Those rules, if they are made, are most likely to show up in the GMG, not here, and will most likely consist of just letting PCs select more than one Heritage.

Agreed, and I would be shocked if that isn't one of the more common house rules already.

It would be easy enough to have a Human Ancestry Feat giving you an extra Heritage. That would neatly allow a Half Elf Dhampir or similar things if someone really wanted one and be consistent with Feats like Elf Atavism.

Those rules, if they are made, are most likely to show up in the GMG, not here, and will most likely consist of just letting PCs select more than one Heritage.

ManBearPig!

Rysky wrote:

Those rules, if they are made, are most likely to show up in the GMG, not here, and will most likely consist of just letting PCs select more than one Heritage.

ManBearPig!

Mongrelfolk will most likely come in the Broken Lands Hardcover.

Mongrelfolk will most likely come in the Broken Lands Hardcover.

Wait, what? Broken Lands hardcover?!

Rysky wrote:

Mongrelfolk will most likely come in the Broken Lands Hardcover.

Wait, what? Broken Lands hardcover?!

The hypothetical Broken Lands Hardcover, my apologies.

(should have used "a" instead of "the")

Heine Stick wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Mongrelfolk will most likely come in the Broken Lands Hardcover.

Wait, what? Broken Lands hardcover?!

The hypothetical Broken Lands Hardcover, my apologies.

(should have used "a" instead of "the")

Fair enough. Got all excited there for a moment. :D

Rysky wrote:

Heine Stick wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Mongrelfolk will most likely come in the Broken Lands Hardcover.

Wait, what? Broken Lands hardcover?!

The hypothetical Broken Lands Hardcover, my apologies.

(should have used "a" instead of "the")

Fair enough. Got all excited there for a moment. :D

Hehe same :3

Just had a chance to look at this. Super excited for the return of classic PF1 prestige classes.

Going to try to build me a Monk with the Shadowdancer prestige class, so I can build a PC which specializes in Shadow Boxing. :p

I like that the dragon disciple is coming back. Very interested to see what they do with vigilante.