Sporkedup's page

I've had to cut back on RPG spending but not this month!

That said, between Treasure Vault, a huge influx of Mothership products for zine month, and possibly a few dollars thrown the way of Destiny for the latest expansion... I'm not sure my wife is too excited for our financial outlay this month!

It's a small thing, but I'd also love both an expanded slate of beast guns and maybe some in-depth advice and rules for designing your own!

Sporkedup wrote:

White room is white room because it's inherently not representative of common or median gameplay.

But, for like the third time, the main advantage of this build is that it's much easier to pull off its combat routine. You don't need 'optimal' conditions. You need something you can hit within 60 feet of you and two actions. If you can't do that, then most builds are going to fall flat (and the ones that aren't aren't putting out nearly as much damage anyways).

The reason the build is so great is because of its improved longevity and flexibility over many other builds, especially other Magi, in addition to doing generally great damage.

... This whole train of thought if we were talking about some hypothetical damage ceiling idea, like a greatsword magus in arcane cascade getting off a true strike acid arrow crit or something, but constantly trying to brush aside something as "white room only" when it's the absolute least white room and most practical Magus build is... absolutely baffling.

Yeah, I think maybe we're discussing different things. Are you talking just the starlit span in general compared to other magi? If so, then you have plenty of point.

Maybe I just missed where the conversation moved on from the original discussion of the true strike, starlit span, psychic dedication impossible weapon combo. For which, achieving it once every or every other combat isn't out of the question. But it being anywhere near a reliable routine? That's the abstracted white room I was discussing.

Apologies if I missed the shift in topic, whoops!

I'm getting the distinct feeling that Unicore's game style is just fundamentally different from that used by just about everyone else I've seen and spoken to about pf2e. Which, given what assumptions I can make about how he's described it, would necessitate a much different approach to deciding what is good or bad and how to handle things.

Not really, no. At least, not in this case.

But then, I do tend to listen more to folks who assess how things will play and feel at a table rather than what the white room math states will happen.

White room is white room because it's inherently not representative of common or median gameplay. I'd suggest that anyone who can reliably pull off an "ideal turn" in combat is far into player minority territory. But again, in my circles of dozens of gamers, there's maybe one optimizer so perhaps that's coloring my impression of just how many are out there.

DemonicDem wrote:

I'd love to sub for Impossible Lands, but I already own Travel Guide! You're missing out on orders.

We regret the delay. I must build an internal reminder to check for subscriptions updates monthly.

All good. Thanks for getting it over the line!

I can imagine Paizo just errataing spellstrike to not work with focus spells, or to only work with spells that come from its own spellcasting feature.

I will suggest that I hope they don't do this, as this seems an overreaction to a few outliers. Especially given how focus-starved magi can get.

I think a better change would be to make starlit span magi have a maximum of 30 foot range on firing touch spells, perhaps? Maybe even just 20... allows for bending physics as is fun, but also keeps them vulnerable and engaged instead of too safe.

Or perhaps they adjust true strike so that when used with a leveled spell, it must be heightened within a couple levels of the spell being cast?

Not that I think they'd do either.

I will say in my opinion that individually, none of imaginary weapon, starlit span, or true strike are broken, but piled all together and I can see potential for bending the game too far for many tables.

Sporkedup wrote:

I love reading threads like these because they sound like a completely different game than I ever experienced. It's fascinating how people can approach things so differently!

I'd love an optimizer or two. Instead, I'm the GM with players like the sword and board fury barbarian that raged once during Fall of Plaguestone, or the swashbuckler who always went intentionally last in initiative to get panache, and always used their finishers as their third rapier attack in one turn... I would kill for a few more players that would read the books or even a cheese guide.

If you and they are having fun, then don't bother. Just keep up with those easy encounters. I am just one of those people who can't turn analysis off. Competitive is a common personality trait. Though I often detune my characters with purely fun options because I like how it sounds.

But if you want to nudge them introduce an optimised NPC to the party. It is not too hard to come up with a build that will be doing a lot more damage over a round that an unoptimised pure flavour build.

Yeah I don't expect to change their idea of RPG fun. They're all just a bit beer and pretzel, which is very fun during game day! I just wish they wanted to get involved more between sessions.

Funny thing is, I run a deadlier game on paper than most other GMs I've talked with online, but I also rarely kill a PC. I guess if they really optimized, it would just give me even more budget to spend on encounters!

Sorry for the rambling tangent.

Placing my bets on either an upstart kingdom of fleshwarp mutants in Mana Wastes, or and undersea location near Jalmeray.

I'd love either of those, but particularly the latter! Guess we'll see, hopefully next week. :)

I love reading threads like these because they sound like a completely different game than I ever experienced. It's fascinating how people can approach things so differently!

I'd love an optimizer or two. Instead, I'm the GM with players like the sword and board fury barbarian that raged once during Fall of Plaguestone, or the swashbuckler who always went intentionally last in initiative to get panache, and always used their finishers as their third rapier attack in one turn... I would kill for a few more players that would read the books or even a cheese guide.

Hooray! Thanks to all who ventured into the dangerous wasteland of Twitter to make this happen. :)

Subbed to Lost Omens again. Easily the coolest part of 2e. I'm currently aiming a campaign at reclaiming the sunken ruins of the allgholthu-sacked Absalom, and I'm using the heck out of that book...

Definitely on board for the popular and visible things...

Darklands
Divine striker (and divine stuff in general)
More stuff for existing post-core classes
Shaman
Big, hulking ancestries (if not large, at least just feat-supported as bigger than average)

I'd love to see a GMG 2, filled with more general and skill feats... But also functional rules to remove skill feats from the game without gutting Medicine and such. More variant rules, expanded subsystems, I dunno. Maybe there's not enough there for a whole book? I feel like I had more ideas but they're missing now.

Maybe unpopular, but more full bestiaries. The halfsies ones are neat but Book of the Dead for example I just find myself wishing it were monsters only by this point.

I'm not very excited for the kineticist, though I certainly believe it is a smart and healthy class to add to the game, but boy it's a bit less fun when there is no playtest or class additions I'm excited for at the moment.

Personally I need an absolute load of more aftermath and defiant feats. Great additions but so limited in scope to this point!

Yeah I left a comment last week on the product page and on the Lost Omens subscription page too. I'll send that email, but it is a bummer that those of us who want to subscribe might not get to throw our hats in for possible early shipment.

I'm excited for this book. Actually surprisingly so! I haven't had any intention to run anything in these areas, so I thought this was a maybe from me... But Mwangi and Absalom are so good!

I keep checking in about subscribing to Lost Omens via Impossible Lands, but I'm wondering if there is a better way to get their attention. Any recommendations of people to reach out to? Emailing customer service is a very slow path to resolution.

I really badly want to sub to Lost Omens again, starting with Impossible Lands, but that's still not an option. Can the subscription page get an update?

Thanks!

The PDF prices are very fair. No complaints here, really!

For years now I've been pretty frustrated how Paizo appears to be the only non-Wizards publisher that doesn't bundle digital along with physical, but lately I've finally come to peace with the idea that their business model and production schedule make them a bit unique in terms of its viability. It's unfortunate for consumers but Paizo not making ends meet is much more unfortunate.

It does suck for everyone purchasing Kingmaker though. Since it's not part of any subscription, those of us who were too late for the crowdfund are just kind of holding our breath till next week and hoping it goes for a not painful price. I'm pretty much blowing all my fun money for the rest of the year on this and Impossible Lands, so the PDF might well be out of reach. :(

Hoping to start a LO sub with this book. Hopefully they get it added as a starting option soon!

Planning on resubscribing for Impossible Lands! But it's not a start option yet despite releasing in less than a month. Hoping that's updated soon!

Having blast accuracy tied to con is too “one stat to rule them all”

How so? It's just the inverse of most martials. CON then DEX instead of the DEX then CON of ranged martials. CON then STR then DEX instead of the STR then CON then DEX of your average melee types.

DEX will always be highly important for your AC, and STR for your damage. If CON were to dip into either of those pools as well, then I think we'd be in trouble. But as it stands, CON to hit wouldn't do anything more, far as I can tell, than put the kineticist mathematically in line with other martials?

CON to damage seems like a lot, particularly for the ranged options. What if it were CON to hit, but the normal STR to damage when applicable? Would give players a reason to be excited about CON without putting their base attacks ahead of the normal curve (noting that their myriad special abilities will do so in small bursts, as is healthy).

The gate allows CON to make more sense, but it's still mechanically quite wonky to my eyes.

Just an overview with no deep dive yet...

But I'm a bit confused why, legacy aside, this class keys off CON. Did I overlook something? It doesn't seem to do anything out of the ordinary for a kineticist that it doesn't do for anyone else. Is it just a gate to keep them a half-step behind full martial proficiency?

My copy of Dark Archive arrived today! Sadly, I've never seen anything more mangled by a trip through the mail. The thing arrived in a literal U-shape. Paizo will get it sorted, but still... that's a big buzzkill, haha.

So…anyone get their pdf today?

No one has said anything on here or Reddit, and it's a quarter to 5 Paizo time...

My guess is not today.

Shipping next Monday? Yes please! Really excited to see Dark Archive.

I think this book is going to be ridiculously useful!

Sporkedup wrote:

I'd love to see some surprising amounts of inspiration from or similarity to Veins of the Earth.

LotFP is pretty close to dead last for anyone I'd recommend drawing inspiration from.

Just because it was a supplement originally published for the system doesn't mean it really has anything to do with the faults and failures inherent to Lamentations. Patrick Stuart and Scrap Princess are really good people and terrific creators, even if they published something originally for a system that panned out to be run by creeps. They already cancelled any future printing until they have converted it to a healthier system, like OSE or DCC.

Seriously, Veins of the Earth is the best RPG supplement I've ever read, just ahead of Harlem Unbound. But more importantly, it's full of genius ideas about dealing with different kinds of darkness and how it's impacted the creatures living under the earth.

I'd love to see some surprising amounts of inspiration from or similarity to Veins of the Earth.

I'm kinda shocked at the disinterest/negativity towards an equipment book. I'm very happy to hear about it, my players are happy to hear about it, Reddit on the whole seems very into it. Things like the crafting variants and the Alchemy Unleashed section on description alone have two of my players incredibly antsy for this book.

Maybe as I'm a GM who is aiming to move away from my overreliance on Nethys, a book of loot, runes, alchemy, and so on sounds wildly handy at my table.

I love the look and ideas in Impossible Lands, but I expect that it will fare like the Mwangi Expanse for me... Excellent book full of excellent stuff that never brushes up against my campaigns at all.

Knights of Lastwall and PaizoCon month. Should be a good time!

WIS is already so good that it makes any WIS-based class already powerful. To balance this, the rest of the class would have to be subpar compared to non-WIS based classes.

I think they want to avoid this.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think wisdom is that powerful, really. Maybe worth consideration, but not to the extent that some folks fear. Maybe I'm just overlooking something.

Admittedly, I think part of the issue is that the community picks up on ideas that I don't think are necessarily accepted as fact internally. Like the question of if the Witch even really needs buffs, I kinda don't think it does and I'm playing one right now as a dedicated healer with Life Boost and Flexible Preperation.

Some more lessons would generally be nice just to have more focus magic tailored to what role you want your witch to fulfill, the way Life Boost is ideal for my goals. But overall I think it succeeds in being a fairly average PF2e class-- I wouldn't say its particularly better or worse than the Druid really.

The druid having daily access to all common primal spells vs the witch having a spellbook is a pretty visible power divergence. But I do think beyond that they're fairly comparable. The witch gets more stuff at level 1 and the druid gets more flexibility over the long run.

I mean, witches are full casters. Smart spell selection and usage, especially later in the campaign, is really all you need to be functional and acceptably successful. It's the chassis bolted on top of that, in addition to the feat selection available, that marks the witch as a lesser light among the classes.

But that's all not really here nor there. The upshot is this errata did not include any sort of balance pass on any of the classes included, and it's not out of line to assume both that Paizo sees the classes as acceptable as they are and that no significant balancing tweaks are ever forthcoming. And I suppose that's very understandable, even if it's not what I'd prefer to hear.

People keep asking for changes to feats, classes ..., but errata are not that.

Errata to the alchemist either says otherwise or gave people entirely the wrong perception.

I get the disappointment though. A lot of folks feel that the class is basically a lot of wasted potential and without errata a lost cause. I've yet to have a class at my table elicit such strong and immediate frustration from people playing one (not the alchemist nor oracle). But the concept of the witch, or even the mythological value of a witch, just seems to make the class's perceived or actual weakness to irritate people more.

So I guess the question is, if the witch will not receive any improvements via errata, is it just stuck where it is forever?

I'd love to see some Arcadia next year! However, given the sort of wistful way folks like Luis talk about wanting to do it, I'm not anticipating it's on next year's docket.

I don't have a better guess though.

Ron Lundeen mentioned it was just David N. Ross who was hired on to do the conversion, with some layout and other oversight by Ron and probably a couple others at Paizo, so it doesn't seem like they're really looking to make this a business model.

And I do agree, it's great for them. As long as they continue supporting game systems like PF2 that they believe in, I'll have nothing to fuss about if they convert every adventure ever to a more D&D flavor as well!

I've tried a few variants, but my favorite is this restriction: everyone gets free archetype for one multiclass dedication. They can't take any other dedications with their free archetype, and all the feats they take with their free archetype must belong to that multiclass. It doesn't interact with their class feats at all, so they are welcome to take other archetypes with that track as normal.

So far it's been really good. A couple made some really surprising choices and one made a really poor one, but in general they built some pretty thematic characters that have some bonus tools in different situations.

That said it's low-level yet and may become a big headache. It does have the weird effect of some characters having a lot more feats for their secondary class than they do their main one, haha.

Great to see! Folks have been wanting this. And the price suggests maybe it's a similar size to Mwangi?

Really excited to dig into this! The new hybrid rulebook idea sounds like such a useful element.

Yeah, the anticipated shipping window has closed with nothing for me... Hoping it's just taking time on that shipping front and not something buggy with my order!

I don't mind being the absolute tail end of this one if it means I'm not there for Book of the Dead... My watch continues.

So glad you're back! This thread is one of my very favorite corners of the internet, seriously.

I know you're a big fan of Call of Cthulhu and other horror games. Pathfinder, however, falls more into "combat as sport," and there's a soft, unspoken feeling with a balanced game like this that the GM wing throw things at the players they can't generally defeat in combat.

My question is how often do you break this, when running PF2? Put monsters out there the party absolutely should not engage with? Do you telegraph pre-encounter or just make it clear once they run across something? Or do you not break it at all and just play within the encounter design rules always?

I love the party not always being on the front foot, but they look at me like I'm betraying them if there's an enemy that they can't defeat...

As far as we know has this been delayed?

No word so far. It's probably still too early to delay it if they haven't received it yet, so I would expect it to be on time unless they mention next month if it's being held up too.

I wonder if gremlins would be to kobolds what kobolds are to goblins.

I'd rather have a method for upgrading fixed DCs by spending gold.

I think that's a rational solution, except avoiding a monetary cost to upkeep loot is exactly why I switched to ABP.

Ideally, items should have their effects gated by their level but their chance to be successfully used controlled by the character level, in my opinion. Haven't sorted out how to do that yet, but finding a way to make loot more long-term, exciting, and not game-breaking will take some effort from me haha.

Lot of good gripes in here! I'm a big fan of PF2 but I've been running it for 2.5 years and I've really come to be frustrated with some bits. First, the pieces that are easy to change but annoying that I have to:

1. Fundamental rune progression being required makes them a check mark rather than a bonus. It also makes backup weapons and multiple weapon options (which are in line with the ethos of PF2, really) too expensive to maintain. Not good--APB fixes.

2. Alignment is really restrictive but not evenly so. TN characters being immune to all planar damage is silly, and cheeses like alignment checks via divine lance grind my gears! Tougher fix, but an expansion of alignment damage and a reduction in alignment restrictions via the variant rules has been a huge boon.

3. Static item DCs are really bad in this game. Fix in progress, but it shouldn't be too hard.

And then there are things that don't have a good fix. Well, just the one main thing.

1. Skill feats. Boo skill feats. Most are things that characters should reasonably be allowed to try, but players often think they can't if they don't have the feat. A few are just mandatory for functional use of some actions, like Intimidating Glare as a clear example. The variant "rule" to deal with this is completely unhelpful. I've got a long term project to strip these out and let players perform their skill actions much more freeform.

Except that last point, everything I'm not a fan of is still something I can adjust, so it's all going just fine still. :)

Bring on Book of the Dead!

Interesting! Is this a standard 128 page book?

Hoping we can get the final book in Strength of Thousands this month! Still looking iffy though.

If this is part of a greater trend to disconnect the current forum/website/shop tangle so that they can update their site without business interruptions, I find this pretty exciting.

If it's not, and if this update doesn't improve CS turnaround (or actively slows it, as some here have worried), then I'll be pretty bummed.

However, I know running an RPG company is hard in the best of times and this is definitely not the best of times. It's a new year just about, so I'm really rooting for all the folks at Paizo (and on these forums) to have remarkably great 2022s.

Sounds awesome, but the number of delays that have hit the Kingmaker update makes me wonder if this will make its date.

This appears to be a regular release from Paizo and not a special, crowdfunded collaboration with another company, nor is this getting released in multiple other systems. I'd expect this book to be as likely to be delayed as any normal subscription release right now, which is to say probably not and not for long if it does.