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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber. 998 posts. 3 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m having a little trouble understanding what you mean by this, as you’re speaking somewhat in generalities. I might agree with you, if I could picture an example.

Can you suggest an example of what this might be?

Do you mean something like the Harrow medium? Because I feel there’s a fair amount of support for that in particular.

Yeah, I think that's a fair example.

I don't personally have too many ideas but I'm not the game designer. Just seems like the classes as exist are intentionally kept origin-agnostic so that Pathfinder can function as a more generic fantasy system. And I'm all for that. But same way we got more Golarion-linked ancestries in the Lost Omens line than in the rulebook line, I'm just thinking it could be done at a class level too.

Guess I'm just wondering why classes are the holy grail that must remain setting-agnostic, when ancestries and weapons and spells and everything else have Golarion-infused lines.


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Sagiam wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:

In regards to new classes, I'm hopeful they get very specific with anything further they create. Meaning, I think they've done a very thorough job making classes that cover broad concepts pretty well. I'm hoping that new classes are more directly tied to Golarion--specific places or peoples on Golarion--and aren't just built to cover a wide section of character concepts.

I think I'm spinning my wheels trying to explain, but I guess think of it more like new Lost Omens classes instead of just regular rulebook classes. That kind of lore-tied, individual specificity.

Archetypes generally cover this field. Full classes are generally setting agnostic, and for good reason. It takes considerably more effort to make a full class than an archetype and thus they need the class to appeal to a lot of people running potentially a lot of different settings, not just Golarian.

I understand all that.

Also I fundamentally disagree with the "just make it an archetype" crowd. Archetypes and class features are nowhere near on the same plane of function and impact. Sure, you could frankly go back to the B/X base human classes of Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User, and Thief and then make everything else an archetype. And I think if they made the game now, there would be people who'd want it to play that way.

But archetypes are not functionally equivalent to class concepts.

Anyways. I'm not pushing for weird and wild hyperspecificity. Just ideas that might be more actively Pathfinder/Golarion-based instead of generic class concepts. They're showing an increasing willingness to bend that way with ancestries, for example, so I am just musing if they might not, in the long run, start making classes and the like that are explicitly based in the setting they've made.

I know it would be a weird gamble but I honestly sometimes find myself lamenting how setting-agnostic much of this game is. I think there is lots of lore/narrative space that can be matched to the still-sizable chunk of mechanical space available to Pathfinder as is.

Either way, probably just me on this one.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

In regards to new classes, I'm hopeful they get very specific with anything further they create. Meaning, I think they've done a very thorough job making classes that cover broad concepts pretty well. I'm hoping that new classes are more directly tied to Golarion--specific places or peoples on Golarion--and aren't just built to cover a wide section of character concepts.

I think I'm spinning my wheels trying to explain, but I guess think of it more like new Lost Omens classes instead of just regular rulebook classes. That kind of lore-tied, individual specificity.


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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
What about the module that was supposed to come out with the book? Is that on time to ship?

There is no such module.

Are you asking about Dead God's Hand?

Ya, it has been so long that it was supposed to come out as well that I forgot the name.

Haha, I feel you!

It's also an Erik Mona project, connected to Absalom, that was delayed. In hindsight I can see how you connected the two! I am pretty sure they were never linked by release date though.

It sounds like Erik has prioritized the Lost Omens book. He's not offered any particular timeline on DGH, which to me says it won't show up any earlier than next year.


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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
What about the module that was supposed to come out with the book? Is that on time to ship?

There is no such module.

Are you asking about Dead God's Hand?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Delays suck, but put in perspective?

Disney has delayed a number of Marvel movies, at least one for over a year at this point. If the biggest and baddest entertainment company in history has to delay films in one of if not the most successful film franchises ever...

It's hitting everybody these days. Paizo really have hummed along incredibly well, all things told. Looking forward to shipping unsnarling and (hopefully) the world easing up into a post-pandemic rhythm, but I'm finding it really easy to be patient with people doing their best in weird circumstances.


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It wouldn't need to be a "continuation" of Wrath, but actively capitalizing on the game's release or potential influence with at least some 2e content seems clever enough to me...


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Oh, I understand how and why it works. I think my players generally do too. Admittedly, telegraphing threat levels is something I'm not great at and am actively trying to improve.

It's definitely better than legendary resistances--it's absolute bananas that 5e DMs get a metacurrency to just undo things and draw out a fight when they want. Not a fan.

I'm less concerned about my players than random newbies who get in a big scrap, miss on an 11 and get hit on a 2... It all works out, the game functions quite well, but it's definitely a bit of shell shock for new players, in my experience. They do think the assumption is they win and all survive just fine, but the numbers don't immediately suggest that!


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Bringing it back around, to me I think the big distinction between the games isn't the hit chance afforded to players... It's how easily enemies can hit them.

It's similar to spellcasting in that way: players encounter a wizard boss whose spells absolutely wreck them, but when they have the spells themselves the effects seem less.

Player math and monster math don't match all the time, and sometimes I wonder if my players would rather have the monster math, haha.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

Why not introduce the chip damage Verdyn proposed in one of these threads and see how that plays? Relabel "Miss" as "Graze" or "Glance" and critical miss as miss? The designers felt that didn't work for the game at large, but for your individual tables that might be appropriate.

Naturally this should be for both spell attack and weapon attacks. The feats and abilities that give chip damage should add to whatever minimum you decide on.

Or maybe take a page from the Shock mechanic in Worlds Without Number?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Hell yeah. Bachelor's in Lit, minors in Linguistics and Latin. I work in a stupid-ass bank.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Looks like somebody put their skill increases into Lore: Shipping...


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would say my guesses about the next classes are dependent on how the partial casters land in Secrets of Magic. Depends i guess on if they wait to announce the forthcoming rulebook at GenCon or not.

Here are some partial casters I'd love to see explored in some way:

I don't know what it's called, but the 5e analog is Oath of the Ancients paladin. Armor-capable, defensive, elemental-smiting primal/martial sorts of things. Bonus points for a reliance on auras and emanations.

An occultism-based shifter of some sort. Not about turning into beasts but focused more on temporary body-modifications. Why occult? I dunno. Linking it more to aberrations than to arcane polymorphic effects or primal shapeshifting.

And I'm not opposed to an inquisitor sort to round out the traditions.

Why do I write this? I am bored. I have no reason to expect anything like the first two is a popular or wanted concept. Haha. Thank you for reading.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I know you've been incredibly excited to get Malevolence out to ask of us. So with the apparent shipping delays, can I ask... Are you just steaming right now? How are you doing?


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I am very happy that Paizo has proven my lingering doubts wrong so far!

AP, I apologize for making you feel discredited or disparaged. Not my intention.


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captain yesterday wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Are there actually going to be stat blocks for all the monsters, it's pretty much worthless to me without stat blocks.

No offense to the talented writers, I'm sure they're doing a splendid job, just telling it like it is.

I'd expect so...

Hell I think the Sandpoint Devil already has been statted up... Bestiary 2 maybe?

Inner Sea World Guide.

Nope, I was right. Bestiary 2.


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captain yesterday wrote:

Are there actually going to be stat blocks for all the monsters, it's pretty much worthless to me without stat blocks.

No offense to the talented writers, I'm sure they're doing a splendid job, just telling it like it is.

I'd expect so...

Hell I think the Sandpoint Devil already has been statted up... Bestiary 2 maybe?


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James Jacobs wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:

I saw in an email from Petersen Games the other day that Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder 2e is on its way. I'm pretty stoked...

Did you ever utilize his CM book for anything you personally ran or played during first edition? Or do you generally avoid using (or discussing) third party content for your own game?

... I don't want to back you into a question you shouldn't be answering.

I usually don't use third party content for my games... not because I don't want to but because I don't have as much time to deep dive into third party stuff. That said, since I wrote a huge chunk of the 1st edition Pathfinder Cthulhu Mythos book for Petersen Games, that doesn't feel like 3rd party stuff to me! :P

I didn't know that! Very cool.

Though I assume your involvement with the 2e tome hasn't been nearly as extensive... Have you consulted on it at all this go round, or are they largely just updating work you did last time?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I saw in an email from Petersen Games the other day that Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder 2e is on its way. I'm pretty stoked...

Did you ever utilize his CM book for anything you personally ran or played during first edition? Or do you generally avoid using (or discussing) third party content for your own game?

... I don't want to back you into a question you shouldn't be answering.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

And this is definitely not the first time society content has been available before the main products in the month. Delays to the physical books aside, none of what's going on is really terribly unusual, haha.

Crossing fingers this is sorted out soon, though! April and May aren't quite as important as June and July, in my estimation, so I'm hoping that the publisher or shipping company or whoever is letting Paizo down right now gets it sorted soon. :)


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Guntermench wrote:


Coming from 5e is a...

Totally valid point. Surprisingly, though, no one with 5e experience at my tables have struggled with or complained about the spell slots. It's been entirely about constantly wasting spells with minimal impact and the low effects when they do succeed.

Some of that comes from the gameplay and my habits as a GM. I'm working on those. But some of it definitely is stemming from how the system functions. And that's ignoring the fact that the players I have who do like their casters no longer ever pick any incapacitation spells, any with a spell attack roll, or anything designed at all for conventional or elemental damage. Just worries me a bit.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think a good portion of what is making people unsatisfied by casters is that in PF1 eventually they had a whole toolbox full of "I win" buttons, while PF2 assiduously avoids devolving into rocket tag. So some part of people is disappointed by going from "I can just win the fight when I choose to" to "I, too, will harry the more powerful boss monster."

I know this is a really popular motif for this discussion, and it probably holds more true here than elsewhere.

That said, I'm pretty tired of reading that one.

By and large, up until very recently, I've been very solidly in the camp of "casters work great and are ingeniously balanced." However I've been having players quit casters to play martials... And been incredibly happy about how much better the game feels. Last year this time I had two tables, 6 casters out of 10 characters. And this spring? 4 casters out of 15. Players switching mid-campaign. So I started to listen to them instead of assuming that I, with my greater Pathfinder knowledge, just knew better than them.

Anyways, all that to say... Not one of us, myself included, has ever touched first edition. And those that came from 5e, I don't know that anyone has ever played above maybe 7th level? So there isn't some mystical "I used to be so much more" floating around their brains.

So while there certainly might be people reminiscing about when magic totally ruled the roost and the petty brutes just got to mop up some scrubs... I think people are really eager to discount the experiences of folks who haven't walked in with that predetermined point of view but still end up with the same perspective?

I dunno. I don't have much to add, really. I get that there are a couple dozen highly active posters here and everyone knows everyone else's opinions real strong by now. I hope we all can give each other some grace, even if we're getting tired of one opinion or the other being frequently talked to death.


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NickTip wrote:
dirtypool wrote:
Zapp wrote:

Until that time I'm afraid sweeping the issue under the rug won't make it go away.

Sincerely yours,
Zapp

You know, you might get more people to agree with you in these kind of discussions if you stopped implying that the that things you don't like are actually endemic problems that those of us of opposing opinions are conspiring to hide.

This isn't governmental malfeasance, there isn't a "rug" under which this is being swept. This is a difference of opinions about a hobby game.

We can throttle back on the invective.

Plus5 wrote:
surprisingly this wizard thread seem to be reaching a consensus, but its a happy surprise

Is it though? As a frequent visitor of all the wizard threads, this looks less like consensus and more like all of the regular "fix the caster" posters all in the same thread with less of the "the caster is fine" actually engaging.

Aside from the few of us chiming in with "here we go again" references, it's like we're tiring of the ceaseless debate.

There will be whining and complaining until casters exist who have unlimited attacks exactly as good as a martial, plus extra damaging effects, plus a toolbox of other effects. Because it's 'thematic'.

No there won't, and quit trying to strawman this discussion into a full-blown argument.

Casters need a slight, slight bump in my experience. I didn't think so for the longest time, but eventually I stopped being hard-headed and actually listened to what my players were saying.


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Oh, thanks to Kelsius for bringing the KS to my attention!

I remember watching Gamera on MST3K years ago and being surprised that there was this whole kaiju series I'd never even heard of. James, what are your can't-miss classic kaiju movies? I'm sure this has been asked before but oh well.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

But there's not even artwork of the Shemtej in the Ancestry Guide?


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Temperans wrote:
The arcane spell list however is one of the smallest and lacks many of the signature spells from the wizard spell list.

Could you clarify? On a quick check, the arcane list is the largest by a decent margin...


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Fumarole wrote:
My April order is showing up in neither my subscriptions page nor my order history. Should I be concerned?

April books are delayed. I wouldn't sweat anything at all, other than hoping that they are delivered to Paizo soon.

I imagine that everyone's account looks just like yours does right now.


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trek wrote:
Any update on when this might come out?

Their best guess is this November, per Erik Mona. We might find out more at PaizoCon.


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Hm... Stheno, Tenome, Sasquatch, Eunemvro, Yeti, Minotaur, I dunno.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Have you watched Gareth Marengi's Darkplace?


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GGSigmar wrote:
Sporkedup wrote:
Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.
Shoonies aren't new ^^'

I know, hence me asking if they specifically said it would be something new. Because if they didn't, it could be a reprint and expansion of shoonies.

I'll not hoping for that. Just musing.

Trying to think of any particularly cosmopolitan ancestry we don't have yet. All I can think of is samsaran, which seems unlikely.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Did they say it would be a new ancestry? It could be shoony.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
There are 4 lost omens books ... a year

Have they stated that this is their intention or expectation going forward? The only way we get four this year is if the Absalom book sneaks in under the wire (last I heard, Erik's best guess is maybe November). I kind of wonder if they will prioritize a quarterly Lost Omens release or if they're enjoying two regular and one deluxe settings books annually?


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Thanks for the update! I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be an international publisher right now. Seeing a lot of indie devs and Kickstarters and everything just kind of... Shrugging apologetically.


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C. Richard Davies wrote:
I suspect that at least one of the ancestries contained in this book will be the kovintus, introduced in Bestiary 3. With multiple subgroups that are clearly heritages and ties to geomancy, this tome is a natural fit.

Unless I missed a big teaser or announcement, I don't think we're gonna get any new ancestries in this book.


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Damn, crushed that there is no currently forthcoming Darklands book. What you wrote about it is a lot of what I've been hoping such a Lost Omens title would include, so maybe someday! It's a very popular wishlist and/or guess at a 2022 within the community on reddit, so I hope Paizo is hearing your ideas and the community's hopes. :)

Do you have interest in making a "bad guy" book for generally disallowed ancestries? Or I can specify: if you could add 5 traditionally villainous ancestries to the game in a way that is not going to impact any table that doesn't want them, which might you choose?


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Woohoo, quick turnaround from March!

Can't wait to read James's adventure.


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Rachel estimated that yesterday would be the last day of shipping, but there probably are a few more orders to go through.


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Mortgages suck! Gotta trim the monthly bills a bit, so can you please cancel my AP sub?

I still want to maintain my other three subs. Thanks!


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No April thread yet?

Also I cannot wait for this Bestiary to ship. Really excited for a giant boost in available monsters!


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Ah damn, I forgot to update my address on my card. To the back of the line I go!


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Prisoner301 wrote:

Anyone got their pdf already? Can they comment if the Clockwork Assassin stayed as is from the Agents of Edgewatch adventure or there are changes to it? http://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1004

I am hoping the latter in particular to the Thievery check. It works clunkily in combat, where it is either useless or you just inactivate the opponent completely. Was hoping for something like applying a Clumsy condition instead.

Authorizations started just a few hours ago. Don't think anyone will get their PDFs till Monday or Tuesday at the earliest, if I had to guess.


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Thanks for the confirmation! Pretty stoked for another Bestiary...


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Perpdepog wrote:

Anyone else think it's odd that Azarketi are called Azarketi rather than Gillmen?

I don't mean it's odd that they have a name for themselves, PF2E has really been stressing that feature of non-human ancestries and it's really cool, but that they're referred to by their own name in their write-ups. Iruxi aren't called iruxi, but lizardfolk, for example, and the same is true for amurrun/catfolk and ysoki/ratfolk.

I'm curious about the rationale there, mostly.

I just wish they'd initially gone all-in and not called them lizardfolk or ratfolk in their entries.


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Sounds awesome! Love the idea of regular updates.


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Fleshwarp is hard to pin down. The category is too broad, in my opinion, to be just a heritage... But it definitely also suffers a bit from the specificity of being an ancestry. We'll see--I'll withhold judgment till someone at one of my tables tries it out. :)


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Sounds great! Very excited to see these final products. :)


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You're the best, thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Whoops, I knew that! I have subscribed to standard rulebooks, starting with Bestiary 3. Can you cancel the special edition subscription for me?


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, the big question for this release is if they want to do it in sequence or if they will just put it on the market as soon as they can.

My general assumption is the latter, because a) putting in the Lost Omens sequence means another planned (or already created) book will be delayed or doubled on because of it and b) the marketing and hype has been pretty ongoing so I don't know how much of a run-up they will need to give it.

But I have absolutely zero insight. I'm probably personally just more hopeful for "release when available" because that means this book arrives earlier and nothing else is delayed. Perhaps that's a bit selfish, haha. :)

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