Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide

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Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide
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Ready to go beyond the basics? Expand the limits of what's possible with the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide! This 272-page Pathfinder Second Edition rulebook contains exciting new rules options for player characters, adding even more depth of choice to your Pathfinder game! Inside you will find brand new ancestries, heritages, and four new classes: the shrewd investigator, the mysterious oracle, the daring swashbuckler, and the hex-slinging witch! The must-have Advanced Player's Guide also includes exciting new options for all your favorite Core Rulebook classes and tons of new backgrounds, general feats, spells, items, and 40 flexible archetypes to customize your play experience even further!

The Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide includes:

  • Four new classes: the investigator, oracle, swashbuckler, and witch!
  • Five new ancestries and five heritages for any ancestry: celestial aasimars, curious catfolk, hagspawned changelings, vampiric dhampirs, fate-touched duskwalkers, scaled kobolds, fierce orcs, fiendish tieflings, industrious ratfolk, and feathered tengu!
  • 40 new archetypes including multiclass archetypes for the four new classes, Pathfinder favorites like the cavalier, dragon disciple, shadowdancer, and vigilante, and brand-new archetypes like the familiar master and the shield-bearing iron wall!
  • New class options for all twelve classes from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook including champions of evil, genie and shadow sorcerers, zen archer monks, rogue masterminds, spellcasting rangers, and more!
  • Even more exciting new rules, from rare and unique backgrounds to investigative skill feats, from spells and rituals like reincarnate and create demiplane to new items including special wands with unusual effects and exciting potions worthy of a witch's cauldron.

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-257-0



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4/5


APG meets Expectations as it Concludes the Original Vision of PF2

5/5

The Advanced Player's Guide is the capstone piece to the original vision for Pathfinder Second Edition. The PF2 CRB was a whopping 640 pages and Paizo still had more content ready to go in it that they just could not release due to space issues. Everything that was left out was designated to be released over the next year in either the Lost Omens line of books or in the Advanced Players Guide. Things that were not quite fully fleshed out for the original release were then worked out. Four additional classes were put through a playtest and are featured in the APG; the Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler, and Witch. Five new ancestries are in the APG while three more were released in the Lost Omens Character Guide in 2019.

One of the new concepts in PF2 is that of Versatile Heritages. Instead of having separate ancestry categories for Aasimar, Tiefling, Changling, Dhampir, and Duskwalker, they are now what is called a versatile heritage. These modify the ancestry choice the player made for the character via the heritage selection. This is a very interesting concept as it provides many additional options for players. These five are just the first of multiple waves of versatile heritages which will be released over time by Paizo.

For those who have been desiring more options for characters, the APG delivers. The four new classes have their dedications for multiclassing along with 38 new archetypes. In addition, each of the 12 original classes gained some new options to choose from as did each of the original ancestries. Not all of the options are as viable as other options, but much of that will depend on the theme of a campaign and how GMs choose to allow players to select archetypes. I can envision some GMs designating some archetypes as free additional choices for players in that they can take one with no additional feat penalties because they give added depth to the campaign's theme such as the dandy or celebrity. Other GMs could emphasize select archetypes like the gladiator as a free archetype for their campaign's theme. The potential for some very interesting campaign themes definitely exists with these archetypes.

One of the things I was watching for in this book was the dreaded power creep. I do not see it present. None of the archetypes seems to overwhelm any of the original classes in terms of raw power while instead they augment them. This was a goal of Paizo from the beginning and it seems to have been met. The APG does what it was intended to do. It expands the options available to players at the initial creation of their characters and as those characters level up over time. Perhaps the best part of that is the APG continues to expand upon building characters as concepts and not as a collection of soulless numbers. While the numbers are important to determining how well a character can do something, the concept behind the character matters more. PF2 put the role back into roleplaying and the APG continues that vision.

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Can't-miss book for anyone at the table

5/5

Especially, and this is obvious, the Advanced Player's Guide is a terrific resource for players--but that doesn't mean GMs don't have a lot to gain from it!

Just on the strength of classes and ancestries, this book is about 150% the size of the core rulebook. Every existing class gets a major boost of options and feats and the same goes for existing ancestries. Adding in four new classes and five new ancestries on top of that is an amazing boon. True, some get more (or better) options than others, but I would say just on character creation alone, this book well beyond justifies its price point.

And that's just the base.

Add in universal heritages, which seem mechanically reasonable but almost unreasonably bursting with flavor, lore, or character development hooks. Add in the massive chunk of archetypes, which enables so many different nuances of character concepts without always landing on the somewhat clunky multiclassing rules. Add in a shot in the arm to spell lists, item lists, skill and general feat lists, and so on?

I just don't know that more needs to be said. This book is bursting with great content--and it's guaranteed to turn the heads of pretty much any player with at least a couple of its options!


Solid guide of varying quality

4/5

This is a solid addition to 2E and well worth adding to your library, although uneven or even disappointing in places. It feels something like a mix of 1E Advanced Player Guide and Advanced Class guide with less ancestries and classes but I like that: nice to have a bit of both rather than to get a bunch of one while waiting 6-12 months for the other.

Pros:
Witch, Oracle, and Swashbuckler are well designed with clever rethinking of mechanics that adds new dimensions to the classes and definitely improves playability with respect to other classes. I especially liked the witch patrons that could make your witch more like a prophet or a fate-weaver while still providing the usual curse, night and wild options for your classic scary witch. The oracle curses are much more interesting- and much more of plusses with minuses than the old version. And swashbuckler seems both quite playable and fun.

Versatile heritages are a great re-think, one of the best parts of the guide. While less potent at low level, the ability to add tiefling to any race, plus the new versatile heritages and the promise of more, greatly expands the range of character concepts.

Archetypes are nicely fleshed out. While the system was in the core rules, they don't really shine until here. Many will appeal only to a specific concept but can have their uses while others are significantly useful for those focusing on combat in particular. You will recognize many names from prestige classes of yore. While not, in general, as potent as an old prestige class, the move to archetypes is both more graceful and more manageable for all- players, refs and game designers. Many can be taken at lower levels and others at higher levels.

While familiars only get used so often in my games (more so by me as a player :) the extra abilities, feats and specific familiars are great. I especially like that it is both practical and clearly explained how to get an imp or faerie dragon.

Feats and spells are nice, mostly as they relate to new classes and archetypes. For existing classes, probably less useful but there are exceptions.

More middling:
Investigator seems suited to a limited range of campaign types. I wish it was a little less detective-like and more lore focused, but I think for the right players and campaigns, a good option.

The new races, while definitely a nice addition beyond too human-like variants, are also unlikely to get used much in my campaigns, except maybe catfolk, although they all seem well executed.

The new backgrounds are so-so. They are nice enough and its not like backgrounds are a particularly eye-catching part of the game, although it is a nice mechanic. The rare ones were a bit disappointing to me, but again the real flavor of them is left to the player in character creation so they are solid enough.

The core classes additions were a very mixed bag. Some are quite interesting and others are so narrowly drawn as to appeal to very few players. I'm thinking of you druid, where the additions are not likely to apply to most of the druid orders. In general, core classes deserve another round of additions like the 1E combat, magic and other guides. The current crop of goodies may disappoint many.

Overalll:
A strong guide. Hopefully upcoming Golarion and other guides will continue to flesh out 2E.

For those looking for more ancestries, classes and archetypes, I would certainly start with this guide but note that the Golarion books, both already published and planned, add a fair amount, almost all of which can be used in non-Golarion settings. For example, apparently many of the 1E Advanced Race Guide ancestries will be coming to a Golarion guide early next year.


Core Rulebook 2

5/5

This should have been in the Core Rulebook, but that would have made for an obscene word count. The content in this book is essential to the PF2 experience, and I can't imagine the game without it.


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Dataphiles

Did the poisoner alchemist make it into this one? Having to grab rogue archetype and not getting single action poisoning until level 8 isn't a great feel for a class that creates poisons.

Liberty's Edge

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Oni, by Pathfinder standards, are considered Fiends. Under the new rules for "outsiders", Kami would have to fall under the category of one of the three class of Outer Immortals: being Celestial, Monitor, or Fiend. Given that most of Kami, void the Zuishin (which is LG), are some kind of neutral, one could argue that they are Monitors. But that only really works where Law and Chaos are concerned I think, since Good or Evil implies Celestial or Fiend respectively. A way around this could be to make Yokai their own form of Immortal, ones which aren't necessarily bound by the usual rules applied to the other Outer Immortals.

Yokai could be the neutral bound Immortals, able to go any direction in terms of neutral alignment, and then Kami could be the Celestial counterpart to Oni. Or Kami become the neutral ones and we introduce a third Immortal to Tian-Xia as Celestial beings. My recommendation would be the Tennin from Buddhism, which are basically angels.

Yokai is meant to also evoke certain monsters from Japanese myth, which, so far, has not been done in Pathfinder. Tengu, Kitsune, and Tanuki aren't considered Yokai by Pathfinder standards, only Oni, Kami, and ghosts/spirits.

If it were me, I'd use Yurei as the general term for undead ghosts or spirits, make Yokai a race of Immortals, divide the race into Tennin, Kami, and Oni, and probably turn Zuishin into a type of Tennin. But, that is just my opinion on the matter. In the end, Paizo will have to do something, because Kami, as they are, simply do not work with the way the new Immortals work now. As it stands, all Immortals seemingly must fall into one of four categories: Celestial, Elemental, Fiend, or Monitor, with appropriate subtypes where needed, such as Angel, Genie, Demon, or Aeon.

Since Kami have strong links with the natural world, Elemental sounds good to me.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

On a separate, more relevant note: does anyone else have an unbridled desire to start a campaign of nothing but Vigilante characters? My inner child wants to push a full Vigilante Ranger party and refer to them as Power Rangers. :D


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I'm so excited for this one, brings back a bunch of my favorite races AND evil champions.

I'm glad to see aasimars and tieflings become available to all races instead of just being various shades of humans.


Just take my money already, Paizo!!!


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ed Reppert wrote:

Hm. IIRC, Antipaladin was CE. Either way I hope they come up with a better name than "antipaladin".

The CE Champion NPC in the Gamemastery Guide is named "Antipaladin", so I have a feeling that one will stay. LE feels like it could be a "Tyrant", but that might be too generic of a name. I don't have a great idea for a NE name, it certainly depends on what theme Paizo goes for.

The Antipaladin's reaction - assuming it will be similar to the PC version - is to increase the damage taken on an attack against you, but deal that same amount back at the attacker and gain bonus Strike damage against that Target on your next turn.

The Lay on Hands equivalent is a damaging attack that reduces AC, or heals an undead creature and boosts their damage.


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Vaktaeru wrote:
That looks like a lot more than 5 ancestries: Aasimar, tiefling, duskwalker, kobold, orc, catfolk, ratfolk, tengu, dhampir, changeling? That's at least 10!

5 Ancestries and 5 Heritages that can be applied to any Ancestry. My guess is Aasimar, Tiefling, Dhampir, Changeling and Duskwalker are Heritages to be applied to any race, while Tengu, Kobold, Orc, Catfolk and Ratfolk are full new Ancestries.


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Oh summer come so that we can get this! :)


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

it's snowing here. :-(


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Did anybody else notice that the following spells are mentioned in Gods and Omens?

Aqueous orb
Blistering invective
Mad monkeys
Threefold aspect
Vomit swarm

They're listed as being from the upcoming Advanced Player's Guide. :D


The GMG has a reference to the Rod of Cancellation as being in the APG.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Fun fact: Had the random desire to do some math. If one includes the 6 Ancestries presented in the Core Rulebook, the 3 added in the Character Guide, the eminent new Ancestry in the next act of Extinction Curse (confirmed in the "Next Month" section of Legacy of the Lost God act; which I presume will be Troglodytes), and the 5 Ancestries coming with the APG, and taking the 5 new Heritages being added as well; there will be a total of 75 distinct people that are playable in Second Edition since launch. This is of course not including the variable Heritages each Ancestry has, which denotes things like culture, ethnicity, nationality, and the like; nor is this including the likely "Sub-Heritages" we may see from options like Aasimar and Tiefling (such as Oni-spawn Tiefling and Agathion-blooded Aasimar). This number is assuming that options like Leshy can be Duskwalkers and Changelings. Given the nature of their birth, I'm not sure that is technically possible. But I digress.

This. This is why I love Pathfinder. The sheer multitude of options and routes one can take to create something theoretically original in this game is outright phenomenal. I saw a video recently where a guy took nearly every conceivable option within the Core Rulebook alone and came up with a ludicrous number. Not all of these choices are huge, but they are enough to create a unique story amongst the characters created. It's amazing.

Dark Archive

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Fun fact: Had the random desire to do some math. If one includes the 6 Ancestries presented in the Core Rulebook, the 3 added in the Character Guide, the eminent new Ancestry in the next act of Extinction Curse (confirmed in the "Next Month" section of Legacy of the Lost God act; which I presume will be Troglodytes), and the 5 Ancestries coming with the APG, and taking the 5 new Heritages being added as well; there will be a total of 75 distinct people that are playable in Second Edition since launch. This is of course not including the variable Heritages each Ancestry has, which denotes things like culture, ethnicity, nationality, and the like; nor is this including the likely "Sub-Heritages" we may see from options like Aasimar and Tiefling (such as Oni-spawn Tiefling and Agathion-blooded Aasimar). This number is assuming that options like Leshy can be Duskwalkers and Changelings. Given the nature of their birth, I'm not sure that is technically possible. But I digress.

This. This is why I love Pathfinder. The sheer multitude of options and routes one can take to create something theoretically original in this game is outright phenomenal. I saw a video recently where a guy took nearly every conceivable option within the Core Rulebook alone and came up with a ludicrous number. Not all of these choices are huge, but they are enough to create a unique story amongst the characters created. It's amazing.

(The new ancestry was Shoony btw :D Pug ancestry!)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:


(The new ancestry was Shoony btw :D Pug ancestry!)

Even better! Forgot they were sneakily hinted at. Wing-ed Aasimar Pupper!!

Dark Archive

On side note, I hope that heritages don't require more achievement points in PFS. Because I realized I might want to use certain Leshy character Background from PFS scenario for Leshy Tiefling character xD


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
On side note, I hope that heritages don't require more achievement points in PFS. Because I realized I might want to use certain Leshy character Background from PFS scenario for Leshy Tiefling character xD

That's assuming Leshy can take any of these variable Heritages. Given the nature of their birth, being created by Druids by infusing nature spirits into a material body; I wonder if their can take any Planar Scion options. Theroetically, I suppose one could argue the possibility of infusing Fiendish, Celestial, and Monitor spirits or essence from an Immortal or their corresponding Planes. But, I think that would likely force an alignment, as the Planes and their inhabitants tend to be alignment locked. And Changeling and Dhampir just seems very out of the question as well, being physical beings rather than spiritual, relying on genetic birth.

But maybe Paizo has thought up an elegant solution to this.

Dark Archive

I mean

the background I'm talking about:
is for leshies with abyssal influence :D


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The background doesn't necessarily make them Tiefling Leshy tho8gh. But again, I'm certain Paizo figured out a reasonable ingame lore reason as to why things like Tiefling Leshy and similar creatures exist. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The more important issue here is the blatant lack on Swinefolk in fantasy settings nowadays! D:<
I desire the (P)Orcs of old! Give me the pig people Paizo!!


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ly'ualdre wrote:

The background doesn't necessarily make them Tiefling Leshy tho8gh. But again, I'm certain Paizo figured out a reasonable ingame lore reason as to why things like Tiefling Leshy and similar creatures exist. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The more important issue here is the blatant lack on Swinefolk in fantasy settings nowadays! D:<
I desire the (P)Orcs of old! Give me the pig people Paizo!!

I mean, it would probably be the other way around- it doesn't necessarily *make* them Tiefling Leshy, but it certainly seems like a good explanation for Tiefling Leshy (and by extension, other kinds of Leshy, as being nature spirits associated with areas under heavy planar influence) if you chose to take a universal heritage on a Leshy.


Any idea when the final cover will be shown?


I'm on board with hoping there is coherent control against Planetouched combos with Leshies and Duskwalker et al.
Really, even more so re: Dhampir and Changeling and such mortal Heritages which don't make sense in created spiritual being.
(if Planetouched origin is vague and mutable enough I suppose one could speculate a viable route for those Heritage combos)

I'm freshly curious on Metallic Kobolds and Aasimar and Apsu and such; interesting potential for specific expressions like that.
(although I also liked the idea of Metallic Kobolds being Apsu thing without necessarily involving Aasimar per se)

----------------------------------------------------------

As they announced final APG is now sent to printers, I expect the final cover to be released sooner rather than later.
Maybe we'll even start getting some more specific previews of the final APG content.... <hint hint hint ATTN: Paizo>


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Quandary wrote:

I'm on board with hoping there is coherent control against Planetouched combos with Leshies and Duskwalker et al.

Really, even more so re: Dhampir and Changeling and such mortal Heritages which don't make sense in created spiritual being.
(if Planetouched origin is vague and mutable enough I suppose one could speculate a viable route for those Heritage combos)

I'm freshly curious on Metallic Kobolds and Aasimar and Apsu and such; interesting potential for specific expressions like that.
(although I also liked the idea of Metallic Kobolds being Apsu thing without necessarily involving Aasimar per se)

----------------------------------------------------------

As they announced final APG is now sent to printers, I expect the final cover to be released sooner rather than later.
Maybe we'll even start getting some more specific previews of the final APG content.... <hint hint hint ATTN: Paizo>

Agreed, I'm super ready for more info, I hope this is set to be a long, drip fed, hype cycle. I am so ready to slow burn my anticipation of this book, sharing each blog post with my group for us to speculate on and salivate over.

(full disclosure: i know this seems like a bit much, but i just enjoy hyping for products, always have- especially for TTRPG books, its actually part of my experience of the game as a whole and gives me a strong sense of community when we discuss each thing on here like we did with the Witch Playtest and such.... or in other words, I love all you nerds <3)


I mean...there are some very inhuman Demonic and Monitor entities that I could easily see being able to create "Planetouched"

Regardless of that fact, Aasimar and Tieflings aren't always born of a bloodline coupling between Mortals and Outsiders.

Proximity to prodigious Fell or Holy energy can lead to that sort of birth.

Look what happened to Nualia and her child...that poor, poor girl.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I know there's a lot going on right now, especially for the writers. So I hope this doesn't ruffle any feathers, and I don't mean it to. But while there's a chance that the product might be delayed the pandemic, I was actually wondering if there's a chance the pdf is released early? A lot of digital content has been, for those bored at home. I know I'm chomping at the bit for fun stuff to do, and character building might be my favourite thing about pathfinder.

Silver Crusade

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While I personally wouldn’t mind getting this book early, throwing an extra 45$ charge to subscribers months in advance while a lot of people are currently in unemployment is probably not the best idea.

(Or did you mean to post in the Bestiary 2 thread, since that comes out in less than two months).


Not to mention that releasing the pdfs of new products for sale long before the actual street date may really hurt brick 'n mortar stores during this time where many are in financial stress.

re_subscription pdfs:
Of course, if you're referring to the free pdf that comes with subscription, that is a perk that is linked to having already bought a new physical product that is being shipped to you (as well as physical products being shipped to distributors/stores for sale on street date - ideally).

Or at least, that is my understanding regarding one of the reasons why Paizo doesn't release pdfs of new products for sale before the street date of the physical product.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Of course, that's providing that the whole concept of a brick and mortar store that isn't grocery or pharmacy survives the next 3 months.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd definitely prefer to get the subscription Bestiary 2 PDF and (eventually) the APG PDF "on time" even if the physical copies don't come for a while (which wouldn't currently be possible, since it doesn't come until the physical item is on it's way), but I don't think earlier than usual is a great idea-

I wouldn't mind but I'm sure some people would feel strongly about sub item dates changing to be closer.


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The literal only I had hoped for for 2nd edition was being able to recreate my favorite archetype, the kobold swashbuckler and I couldn't be more pleased! Being able to also potentially add on cavalier is just icing!


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It would be really nice to see the final cover art for the APG. I'm wondering if we are seeing all the four new iconics in it, and if they are going to be fighting a linnorm as well as in the 1E cover.


I too am looking forward to the new cover.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any guesses on other core class options? Just for fun I looked to pf1 to see if I can guess what they might be.

Alchemist - Not sure if it's been confirmed, but I'm guessing a poisoner option. Maybe a sort of machinist option, something like the tinkerer archetype in original pathfinder. I do suspect probably a single class focus and then a bunch of more universal feats though.

Barbarian - Core class options loosely cover a ton of original archetypes. Mostly animal, there are a ton of animal barb archetypes in pf1! I could possibly see an elemental focused barbarian (More along the lines of earth/fire/water/air dealing bludgeoning or fire damage, rather than the energy types dragon deals, and very different thematically/powers wise). A heavy armor focused barb could also be an option, though I'm not sure what kind of feats you'd grant it.

Bard - This is the class I find hardest to guess. There could be more skill focused options like acrobat or wit based stuff, or it could be more occult magic like charming effects. Little inexperienced here. There could also be a skald type option, this could be here or in the barb area.

Cleric - We have cloistered and warpriest now, both focused more on defense and buffing. I could see a more magically offensive option, or maybe a necromancy focused one?

Druid - I could see a more elemental focused one, storm and leaf are pretty focused on their respective themes. Maybe a fey option, with more illusion and trickery. Possibly a shifter style option, but I do think that'll be its own class.

Fighter - Fighters don't really have a major option to choose from, so I expect just a buttload more feats, which I like. Tons of possibilities for martial feats.

Wizard - Another I'm not very familiar with but I could see lots of options. Maybe a magic item focused option like scrollmaster or an option of specific new types of magic like chronomancy.

I won't bother with the others as they're already in the product description. What do others think?


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I am not terribly impressed with the choices of Investigator and Swashbuckler for 2E conversion. Is 2E intended to consolidate classes so that Investigator subsumes Inquisitor, and Swashbuckler takes over the Brawler niche?


Investigator was chosen over other classes because of the Agents of Absalom AP (or whatever it's called).

Silver Crusade

Aqua Zesty Man wrote:
I am not terribly impressed with the choices of Investigator and Swashbuckler for 2E conversion. Is 2E intended to consolidate classes so that Investigator subsumes Inquisitor, and Swashbuckler takes over the Brawler niche?

No, no and no.

Silver Crusade

captain yesterday wrote:
Investigator was chosen over other classes because of the Agents of Absalom AP (or whatever it's called).

Agents of Edgewatch


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Rysky wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Investigator was chosen over other classes because of the Agents of Absalom AP (or whatever it's called).
Agents of Edgewatch

I think the timing is nice, but I got the impression that they wanted to start including some less straight-up combat-oriented classes, and investigator was the obvious launch point for that. They also said it was one of the most requested classes.

Obviously depends on how it's grown since the playtest, but it's probably the most intriguing class to me at the moment.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Paizo ran surveys ahead of designing PF2 and apparently alchemist, witch, oracle, bucketslasher and investigator were the most popular non-core classes. Alchemist got into core, the rest is in APG.

Design Manager

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That set weren't exactly the top 5 most played raw (books that came out years later would have less raw play just by amount of time available), but they all did well for when they came out, and neck-and-neck alchemist and oracle were each more popular than even some of the core classes.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is that how future classes are going to be picked, by most wanted/most popular?

Silver Crusade

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As opposed to?


As far as returning classes go, I hope popularity is strongly considered (as is filling conceptual voids in the game currently).

Though I'm still very hopeful we get more classes and ancestries and everything that have not directly appeared in the game before. I'm new with PF2, never played first edition, and don't really find tons of excitement in just getting all that rolled back out in modified form. Hoping over the next year or two we start to see Paizo truly taking advantage of owning their own world and their own game setup.

See where this evolves.

That's not to say I'm not wildly excited for this APG, because I am!

Grand Lodge

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Gaulin wrote:
Is that how future classes are going to be picked, by most wanted/most popular?

I fully expect that Paizo will weigh numerous factors, including popularity, what design space has not been covered, what classes can do the design better, and many other things.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
Is that how future classes are going to be picked, by most wanted/most popular?
I fully expect that Paizo will weigh numerous factors, including popularity, what design space has not been covered, what classes can do the design better, and many other things.

Yeah but I wonder which is the most important. Assuming the next classes aren't locked down, it would be cool if there could be a poll for one or two of the next classes chosen. That being said I fully realize that the good folks at paizo are much better at determining what's best for their game, mob rule tends to be pretty dumb sometimes.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Not the worst idea, Gaulin, but I think at this point they’ve surely identified and set priorities for the “popular” classes, so the poll would mostly determine the next tier of conversions to prioritize.

If they do another pure class book akin to the Advanced Class guide, I could see something like that poll taking place. I doubt they’d get a lot of value doing that, but I’m definitely prepared to be wrong about it.

Grand Lodge

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Gaulin wrote:
Yeah but I wonder which is the most important.

None of them. The most important criteria is "what will sell best without compromising our standards?"


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
Yeah but I wonder which is the most important.
None of them. The most important criteria is "what will sell best without compromising our standards?"

Obviously, but I would think some of those factors factor in to that decision. I just wonder how important each factor is. I realize it's not a single thing.

I suppose I was hoping for a poll because I'm curious about what's coming up, and a poll might give people an idea, that's all. I'm dieing for kineticist to come out and wonder how long it'll be before it's created (if it will be at all), and I'm sure there are many that are waiting on baited breath for their favorite to come out.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Making a poll among the hyper-invested self-selected specific slice of customer base is not the best way of making business decisions. People on the forum care for things general playerbase doesn't and vice versa.


I'm sure if you pop over to Paizo's Twitter page, or Facebook page, or their twitch channel or their Instagram page I'm sure you can find a poll to your liking.

If it's one thing that social media likes, it's more polls.

Verdant Wheel

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I wonder if we get back to the themes like Occult classes, Oriental classes, Wilderness Classes, Intrigue classes, Planar classes etc..

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