Shooting Toward a New Horizon

AnimatedPaper, your wish has been granted.

NOICE!

This is the best day, and I'm glad I made it here

Huzzah! Though I am not really excited for gunslinger. Don't like higher tech stuff. EDIT: Will probably use the crossbows instead of guns ^^

I'm so excited about this! From the Clockwork Cathedral in Absalom to the armies of Pan Majang, I've always been obsessively fascinated with the clockwork in our setting and looking for more ways to include them in my characters and campaigns!

The new gunslinger looks awesome. I get a kind of short-mid-long range vibe from the three "ways", which fits perfectly for a martial character described as "ranged".

Huzzah! Though I am not really excited for gunslinger. Don't like higher tech stuff.

You may be happy to see these are our first Uncommon classes.

GGSigmar wrote:

Huzzah! Though I am not really excited for gunslinger. Don't like higher tech stuff.

You may be happy to see these are our first Uncommon classes.

And our first uniquely 2e base class, which (from my quick skim) really does show the vast design space the system offers!

*cracks knuckles*

Well guessed indeed AnimatedPaper.

GGSigmar wrote:

Huzzah! Though I am not really excited for gunslinger. Don't like higher tech stuff.

You may be happy to see these are our first Uncommon classes.

Oh I do! As I DM in my own low-magic, gritty setting I will probably want to substitute guns with crossbows (as you suggest in the news) and will have to think about inventors. Off to the document now! I am excited to read it through!

MUWAHAHAHA!

You all thought I was mad! MAD!

In all seriousness, I'm very excited to delve into these.

Thanks again for your willingness to place these playtests so close to one another. It is awesome to have so much to look forward to every month.

Edit: Holy cow, they even use the drifter name.

Very excited about the Inventor, and also really like that Gunslinger can be a Boltslinger instead. Really cool. Looking forward to digging into the playtest, and my players are stoked as well!

Wait, new Gunslinger iconic? I like!

Man, can't get to the PDF, just getting an Internal Server Error. To be expected with such a release, but the suspense is killing me!

Gun mages of distant Arcadia

Wild West Wizards. It's high noon!!!

Man, can't get to the PDF, just getting an Internal Server Error. To be expected with such a release, but the suspense is killing me!

https://downloads.paizo.com/PZO2109_GGCharacterPlaytest.pdf

Here's the direct link. That might work better.

MUWAHAHAHA!

You all thought I was mad! MAD!

In all seriousness, I'm very excited to delve into these.

Thanks again for your willingness to place these playtests so close to one another. It is awesome to have so much to look forward to every month.

Edit: Holy cow, they even use the drifter name.

Good work!

Digging in now. The inventor looks really fun.

Stoked. You know, I don't know why I hadn't considered the Inventor here. But, it makes so much sense paired with the Gunslinger. Very excited.

Not keen on them eating the Fighter's lunch on weapon proficiency. Even if it is with limited weapons. A big misstep in my view that shouldn't be needed

That rule alone will see it never reach my table post-playtest

It just opens up too many questions. Like "why not swashbucklers and their rapiers. Why not champions and their deity weapons"

I am sure I will be disagreed with

Perfectly valid criticism.

First impression on Gunslinger: A few tweaks could make Way of the Drifter into a pure melee OR melee/ranged option. If we could do that I'd be pretty happy that the class isn't just "guns/crossbows the class".

Going to need a more nuanced writeup about this whole thing.

It just opens up too many questions. Like "why not swashbucklers and their rapiers. Why not champions and their deity weapons"

For the same reason they don't have sneak attack? Because they have other mechanics instead.

Though first impression I'm not a huge fan since it creates some anti-synergy with the sword and pistol build the book offers.

This is amazing, props to all the talented people who made this playtest possible!

A gnome in Hulkbuster armor. That is all.

Hmm. Having a look at the document, thematically I don't think they should have been classes on their own. I don't see a whole lot here that couldn't have been accomplished with an archetype or extensive feat paths for Fighter/Swashbucker and Alchemist.

After that, Gunslinger seems to get better proficiency than Fighters do - I thought that was a Hard No in class design now?

Last thought: Arcadian Gun Mages sound awesome, and I really wanna see those and probably play one.

Clockwork for everyone! Best idea to really give 2nd edition a steampunk option for flavour that 1st never got to.

Gunslinger Dwarf with Inventor archetype or vice versa to go full Warcraft.

First note: Gunslinger Weapon Mastery at level 5 gives crit specialty effects for firearms but not crossbows. This is probably an oversight?

Hmm. Having a look at the document, thematically I don't think they should have been classes on their own. I don't see a whole lot here that couldn't have been accomplished with an archetype or extensive feat paths for Fighter/Swashbucker and Alchemist.

After that, Gunslinger seems to get better proficiency than Fighters do - I thought that was a Hard No in class design now?

Last thought: Arcadian Gun Mages sound awesome, and I really wanna see those and probably play one.

I can't really see this. The Inventor has almost nothing in common with the Alchemist other than their d8 HD and Int focus. Their chassis are different and there's not really a single class feature shared between them.

TBH it's closer to the Ranger or Monk than the Alchemist.

Bit surprised Numeria wasn't mentioned as example of inventor locations :O I'm mostly wondering if that means devs consider something more even more technology focused might be more appropriate for Numeria

First note: Gunslinger Weapon Mastery at level 5 gives crit specialty effects for firearms but not crossbows. This is probably an oversight?

Yeah, it should be for both.

Really excited!

After that, Gunslinger seems to get better proficiency than Fighters do - I thought that was a Hard No in class design now?

1.) This is the first class who is defined by their weapon. It would be kind of odd if a Fighter could just pick up firearm proficiency and be a better gunslinger than a gunslinger.

2.) Guns look as though they need the crits for that extra deadly damage, meaning they need a higher to-hit to reach that >10 thresholds.

3.) Most importantly, this is a playtest. I don't mind Paizo experimenting with potentially "dangerous" design-space during a playtest to see how it works. In fact, I encourage it.

I meant to delete my original snap judgement sooner but got distracted actually reading it in more detail

I withdraw my original comment on the proficiency. Was a snap judgement

The chassis looks very similar to fighter with a few trades. Almost seems like it could have been a "class archetype" as mentioned early on (those seem to have been ditched or were misunderstood from the start)

What I mean:

Remove:
- Medium and heavy armour
- AOO
- Shield block
- 2 HP

Add:
- Gunslinger Way
- Deeds
- Extra skill

And then have unique feats. Nothing mind blowing. I would have preferred to see normal martial proficiency and other mechanics like swashbuckler got

I assume Crossbow Ace should be a feat option? Guess a space saver?

I'm possibly just blind, but where do they get better proficiency than fighters? I'm seeing them hit expert/master/legendary at the same levels with their specific designated weapon groups, just like a fighter would.

I am skeptical about "invention" being a thing that is useful in the heat of combat, rather than something you do in your workshop in the quiet hours, but I will give it a shot.

I assume Crossbow Ace should be a feat option? Guess a space saver?

Correct. We know how Crossbow Ace works and have a good grounding for it, so we didn't need to playtest it the way we need to run firearms through their paces.

Good stuff! Lots of cool things in here. :D Glad that they didn't go the path of trying to make grit a thing, and I like the new version of misfires a lot. Wondering if I should run a demo scenario for my group to try these out...

(...) If you attempt to fire a firearm that was used the previous day and that hasn’t been cleaned and maintained since then, attempt a DC 5 flat check before making your attack roll. (...)

Oh, so guns auto-clean themselves after 2 days! I'm guessing that was supposed to be in "a" previous day rather than "the" previous day. Otherwise, you could alternate gun stacks to avoid ever needing to do maintenance. :)

Also, I wonder if it's intentional that gunslingers that use more than one gun have to spend extra time maintaining them all? It's probably not that big of a deal in practice (adventuring days rarely cut into morning prep time), but a dual-wielding gunner will typically need to spend 2 hours doing prep while all his party members (spell casters, etc) only need 1. It might be nice if gunslingers got some class ability to clean multiple guns at the same time.

The cleaning stuff seems really niche...
As in the times you won't be able to do this...

As a suggestion for future class playtests, I would really appreciate a template similar to the APG archetypes for additional feat options. It seems like this might save space to test the more mechanically uniquely feats without having to compromise on the meat and potatoes options that don't need playtesting. The Gunslinger, for instance might have:

Additional Feats: 1st Crossbow Ace; 2nd Assisting Shot (Core Rulebook 145), Quick Draw (Core Rulebook 172); 4th Running Reload (Core Rulebook 172); 12th Incredible Ricochet (Core Rulebook 151); 14th Two Weapon Flurry (Core Rulebook 153)

They are interesting classes.

Inventor is a themed martial with overdrive and the lvl 7 feature being the extra damage. The feats with unstable are kinda like focus spells, you use then 10 minutes to get back (unless you like DC17 flat check to try again).

Gunslinger is the fighter chassis but instead of the extra feats you gain some deeds and you better weapon proficiency is limited to reload weapons and don't have other damage enhancer outside of accuracy, the only problem right now for me is that it incentivizes the use of two weapons but no way to reload with the hand full with the exception of one drifter feat.

Make place for IronMan :)

Man, can't get to the PDF, just getting an Internal Server Error. To be expected with such a release, but the suspense is killing me!

are you using brave browser? for me i had to switch to firefox to see it for some reason.

They are interesting classes.

Inventor is a themed martial with overdrive and the lvl 7 feature being the extra damage. The feats with unstable are kinda like focus spells, you use then 10 minutes to get back (unless you like DC17 flat check to try again).

Gunslinger is the fighter chassis but instead of the extra feats you gain some deeds and you better weapon proficiency is limited to reload weapons and don't have other damage enhancer outside of accuracy, the only problem right now for me is that it incentivizes the use of two weapons but no way to reload with the hand full with the exception of one drifter feat.

Fighters don't get extra feats do they? Unless you mean AOO and Shield Block.

Hey, I'm really excited to give these new classes a look, but I'm a blind gamer and this PDF isn't very accessible. It's showing up as an untagged PDF and it's getting pretty jumbled up when my software tries to organize it.

MADBOY AND MADGIRL SPARKS AHOY

Kyrone wrote:

They are interesting classes.

Inventor is a themed martial with overdrive and the lvl 7 feature being the extra damage. The feats with unstable are kinda like focus spells, you use then 10 minutes to get back (unless you like DC17 flat check to try again).

Gunslinger is the fighter chassis but instead of the extra feats you gain some deeds and you better weapon proficiency is limited to reload weapons and don't have other damage enhancer outside of accuracy, the only problem right now for me is that it incentivizes the use of two weapons but no way to reload with the hand full with the exception of one drifter feat.

Fighters don't get extra feats do they? Unless you mean AOO and Shield Block.

Fighters have combat flexibility, which gives them an extra class feat that they can change daily. They eventually get two of them.

Salamileg wrote:

Man, can't get to the PDF, just getting an Internal Server Error. To be expected with such a release, but the suspense is killing me!

are you using brave browser? for me i had to switch to firefox to see it for some reason.

It's the same issue that's been plaguing the home page for a bunch of us for months. :/

I'm able to get to it either by opening the page in a private window, or the direct link someone thankfully supplied to the PDF in the Discord server.

I am, however, happy to see "strategically placed exploding red barrels" become a part of Pathfinder.

My first impression is that you guys really knocked it out of the park with both of these. Both seem very powerful, with heavy flavor, and convincing mechanics/feats. I appreciate the Legendary proficiency on the Gunslinger, and the Master Proficiency on the Inventor. The modifications are a super cool mechanic, it actively makes me fantasize about creating neat weapons by altering the current ones using the feature.