Save the Date!

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

OMG a Pokemon Company X Paizo crossover project would be over the top awesome oh my gods, why do you have to plant this seed in my mind?

I'm wondering if the themed alternative bestiaries couldn't also function as a kind of setting book. Like if you did a big First World book, you could devote ~100 pages of it to monsters and antagonists from the First World, but you'd also have everything else that goes in a setting book in the remaining pages.

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

Imperial dragons sound like a lot of fun. Like drakes but stronger, and a cool "Rock-Paper-Scissors" theme for strengths and weaknesses. The Brain Child is the one I'm looking forward to using in my campaign

Appreciated, thanks!

grumbles some more about the pivot to video and podcasts have ruined the internet

furthermore, advises the miscreant youth to depart their well-maintained domestic greensward posthaste

I'm just excited for horde monster templates and horde monsters entering their respective pools for summoning spells. My necromancer can finally have a squad of skelly bois balanced for actual play. Yeee!!! I don't even care about summons lagging in hit bonuses or hp. I'll have an honest to goodness skeleton horde!!!

I like monsters, Ocean, they give me ideas :3

Me too. Don’t get me wrong, I collect them from any and every system. But a few loot books wouldn’t go astray. They give me ideas too. One of my favorite homebrew’d “creatures” was a amoeba-construct called the Amorphous Combat Mass, that once defeated was a biotech suit of walker-armor.

Monster AND loot!

Gaulin wrote:

You know what, no one cares about what I'm going to say but I'm going to say it anyway; I actually think just posting the teaser of the playtest was a good idea. It really gives people (me for sure anyway, as someone who works in retail) something to look forward to after a stressful holiday season. And not saying which class it is gives me hope that it'll be my favorite. I'll be happy with whatever class it is, to be clear, but if it's kineticist I'll be euphoric for a month.

So thank you paizo for helping me get through the holidays.

I Agree I think the tease is a nice enticing way to generate discussion and excitement.

No, really, in the history of the Internet, or hey, the moving picture industry, or human agency, teasers have been shown to increase human comfort by a factor of 5.7. Who knew keeping information from folks by giving them “teasers” and omitting information precisely to build hype and unfortunately having the unforeseen side effect time and time again because human nature which generates controversy which happily builds newsworthiness and moar hype would leave people feeling so fulfilled! Yay!!! Tell me more things I can’t know about yet are coming!!!

'Building anticipation' is a storytelling device as old as stories. So is 'creating suspense'.

If you want to fret that it's a 'teaser' or 'hype' or 'controversial', you're working against thousands of years of human group activities, not just 100 years of movie-making.

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

'Building anticipation' is a storytelling device as old as stories. So is 'creating suspense'.

If you want to fret that it's a 'teaser' or 'hype' or 'controversial', you're working against thousands of years of human group activities, not just 100 years of movie-making.

Yep, I said “human agency”. That covers thousands of years of human group activities. And individual ones too. It’s entirely not controversial, but does almost necessarily in the age of “algorithms love negativity” build controversy. So not fretting. More disappointed. The struggle continues...

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

OMG a Pokemon Company X Paizo crossover project would be over the top awesome oh my gods, why do you have to plant this seed in my mind?

Doesn't Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast still own the gaming rights to Pokemon? I wouldn't get my hopes up unless something changes there.

Themetricsystem wrote:

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

OMG a Pokemon Company X Paizo crossover project would be over the top awesome oh my gods, why do you have to plant this seed in my mind?

Doesn't Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast still own the gaming rights to Pokemon? I wouldn't get my hopes up unless something changes there.

Could be an interesting, massive homebrew project. I know some truly insane/fantastic people have done that Pokemon 5e homebrew that's really intriguing to read through.

I don't know that I have the constitution to actually sit down for weeks/months on end and create a fully-functioning version of that for PF2e, but I'll definitely have some fun chewing on what it might look like at a higher level.

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

OMG a Pokemon Company X Paizo crossover project would be over the top awesome oh my gods, why do you have to plant this seed in my mind?

I feel like a Pokemon-type system would work really well with "Level without proficiency" rules to give the feeling that anything is possible, and that you can throw an electric rat at God and win.

Imperial dragons sound like a lot of fun. Like drakes but stronger, and a cool "Rock-Paper-Scissors" theme for strengths and weaknesses. The Brain Child is the one I'm looking forward to using in my campaign

This system reminds me of Battle Beasts. My friends and I always laughed at wood "beating" water.

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

I REALLY don't like bestiaries being mixed in with player content as a rule. Players tend to skim the content (not necessarily maliciously) and kill value.

David knott 242 wrote:

Themetricsystem wrote:

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Further appreciated.

At least its on Apple podcasts, so I don't have to hunt across the internet.

I'm here for pokemon dragons

OMG a Pokemon Company X Paizo crossover project would be over the top awesome oh my gods, why do you have to plant this seed in my mind?

Doesn't Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast still own the gaming rights to Pokemon? I wouldn't get my hopes up unless something changes there.

Could be an interesting, massive homebrew project. I know some truly insane/fantastic people have done that Pokemon 5e homebrew that's really intriguing to read through.

I don't know that I have the constitution to actually sit down for weeks/months on end and create a fully-functioning version of that for PF2e, but I'll definitely have some fun chewing on what it might look like at a higher level.

They used to until the early 2000s when the pokemon company began publishing pokemon cards in the US themselves, That being said there are pokemon tabletop rpgs out their on the internet and they are pretty well put together.

Squiggit wrote:

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

They've continued this practice with 5e, with Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes being a mix of lore, PC options (primarily races), and monsters. And those were probably my favorite 5e books.

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

They've continued this practice with 5e, with Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes being a mix of lore, PC options (primarily races), and monsters. And those were probably my favorite 5e books.

Indeed Paizo has been doing it themselves with the Lost Omens line.

Upon reflection, that is my biggest curiosity on how they'll make it all work. If, for instance, we get a Dragon book, with dragon stat blocks and arcehtypes/item/spells that are focused around being allied with or against dragons, how will they write the lore sections so that they don't feel like the book should have been part of the Lost Omens line? I have every confidence they can do so, of course, I'm just curious how it will look.

Salamileg wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

They've continued this practice with 5e, with Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes being a mix of lore, PC options (primarily races), and monsters. And those were probably my favorite 5e books.

Indeed Paizo has been doing it themselves with the Lost Omens line.

Upon reflection, that is my biggest curiosity on how they'll make it all work. If, for instance, we get a Dragon book, with dragon stat blocks and arcehtypes/item/spells that are focused around being allied with or against dragons, how will they write the lore sections so that they don't feel like the book should have been part of the Lost Omens line? I have every confidence they can do so, of course, I'm just curious how it will look.

Damn, I was busting in to post something like this!

Bestiaries are part of the rulebook line, which is inescapably a bit tied to the setting, but the goal is to be fairly setting-neutral. A book that is half-setting and half-rulebook wouldn't really fit their stated goals... Tough question.

I just hope it's not going to be gunslinger class.

I just hope it's not going to be gunslinger class.

I'm happy it's two classes. While gunslinger isn't my thing, even if we get that there will be another class as well.

If not gunslinger I'd enjoy rifle item stat blocks to put on a precision ranger

I remember when they playtested the investigator, which had proficiency in the sword cane - a weapon which the playtest did not supply the rules for.

So I hope if we do playtest the gunslinger or some offshoot thereof, we also get firearm rules to playtest.

I remember when they playtested the investigator, which had proficiency in the sword cane - a weapon which the playtest did not supply the rules for.

So I hope if we do playtest the gunslinger or some offshoot thereof, we also get firearm rules to playtest.

Lol, that'd be the biggest troll to get the teaser haters going. Here's the gunslinger! Come back for our gun playtest in February!

A lot of the feedback would have to be something like "when I use my class features, the game hangs since nobody knows what the rules they invoke are".

If we do get guns and black powder weaponry now, I'll be even more excited when we get a Numeria book with future tech to utilize. I think if the Mwangi Expanse book does well it could definitely be an option.

I'm also just a big fan of sci-fi/fantasy mixing so I can watch dragons get shot with plasma rifles by leshy clerics who worship the sun.

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

They've continued this practice with 5e, with Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes being a mix of lore, PC options (primarily races), and monsters. And those were probably my favorite 5e books.

Sure, but those aren't focused in the same way Draconomicon and the others were. Volo's and Mord's do go into some depth on lore for various creatures, but those creatures don't have any particular theme. I'd rather see themed monster books than Volo's-style miscellanies.

Salamileg wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

The idea of a highly themed book that's part bestiary, part setting book and party player options sounds really cool to me. Allow Paizo to publish some monsters and setting things that might seem too niche for a general bestiary while also covering some of the highly-themed design space of the PPC line PF1 had.

It seemed to work well for Wizards with Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, and the two books of fiends they did.

They've continued this practice with 5e, with Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes being a mix of lore, PC options (primarily races), and monsters. And those were probably my favorite 5e books.

Sure, but those aren't focused in the same way Draconomicon and the others were. Volo's and Mord's do go into some depth on lore for various creatures, but those creatures don't have any particular theme. I'd rather see themed monster books than Volo's-style miscellanies.

Stolen from a Know Direction podcast, a kaiju themed bestiary would be dope as hell

Any chance one of these classes is Kineticist? I never played 1e but this class really sounds fun, and my DM doesn't like the Legendary Games conversion :(

Any chance one of these classes is Kineticist? I never played 1e but this class really sounds fun, and my DM doesn't like the Legendary Games conversion :(

I mean there's a chance. Everything in this thread is pretty speculative. I'm not expecting it, but wouldn't be surprised it if or something inspired by it showed up either.

I think most assume on something like gunslinger and a new class, coming out with a book covering armor, weapons, guns, etc. Partially because it would be a good partner to secrets of magic, but also because gunslinger is the most talked about class (I'm not convinced it's the most popular, but only the most talked about because of devisive opinions).

How would people feel about summonerand magus replacements that have different names and have all the teams changes as the "new" classes :)

I would feel confused, as I expect they sent the Magus and Summoner off to the printer already, or will do so in a week or two.

Between Chinese New Years, Covid, the shipping container shortage, and the normal lead time required, having a playtest for a book coming out in July seems...brave.

Also they said they weren’t going to have that tight of a publishing schedule anymore.

Yeah, I personally would be surprised to see these classes appear any sooner than a year from now.

If we do get guns with this playtest, which ones do you think we would get? (outside of the 1e starters: pistol, musket, blunderbuss)

I would feel confused, as I expect they sent the Magus and Summoner off to the printer already, or will do so in a week or two.

Between Chinese New Years, Covid, the shipping container shortage, and the normal lead time required, having a playtest for a book coming out in July seems...brave.

Also they said they weren’t going to have that tight of a publishing schedule anymore.

An 8 month lead to sending it to the printers before release, possible if they have really given themselves room, but I would be surprised. If only because of Paizo's track record.

I would be more concerned about book quality than a hard gencon release at this point since there is a good chance gencon will be online again. Could be wrong.

If we do get guns with this playtest, which ones do you think we would get? (outside of the 1e starters: pistol, musket, blunderbuss)

Some kind of hold-out / concealed pistol.

Some kind of sniper rifle.

A hybrid melee weapon / pistol, ideally Mack's axe-shotgun from Agents of Shield.

AnimatedPaper wrote:

I would feel confused, as I expect they sent the Magus and Summoner off to the printer already, or will do so in a week or two.

Between Chinese New Years, Covid, the shipping container shortage, and the normal lead time required, having a playtest for a book coming out in July seems...brave.

Also they said they weren’t going to have that tight of a publishing schedule anymore.

An 8 month lead to sending it to the printers before release, possible if they have really given themselves room, but I would be surprised. If only because of Paizo's track record.

I would be more concerned about book quality than a hard gencon release at this point since there is a good chance gencon will be online again. Could be wrong.

Online or not does not lessen the importance of Gencon releases.

How would people feel about summonerand magus replacements that have different names and have all the teams changes as the "new" classes :)

Concerned for how Paizo was going to pay its writers and developers if they're doubling the amount of work that goes into playtesting, mostly.

AnimatedPaper wrote:

I would feel confused, as I expect they sent the Magus and Summoner off to the printer already, or will do so in a week or two.

Between Chinese New Years, Covid, the shipping container shortage, and the normal lead time required, having a playtest for a book coming out in July seems...brave.

Also they said they weren’t going to have that tight of a publishing schedule anymore.

An 8 month lead to sending it to the printers before release, possible if they have really given themselves room, but I would be surprised. If only because of Paizo's track record.

I would be more concerned about book quality than a hard gencon release at this point since there is a good chance gencon will be online again. Could be wrong.

There's 6 months between the end of the playtest and Gencon. We passed the 8 month mark about 3 weeks ago.

This is actually my line of work, so I'll go ahead and break it down more. Iirc there was a 4 month turnaround time for the actual printing. That is, 4 months from when they send the file to the printer to getting the product back from China (this is very old information and may be wildly out of date, btw). Covid precautions have probably added at least some time to that, so give it another 2 weeks. Chinese New Years, when production in China basically shuts down for a week or 2 (depending on the priority of your particular product), is a week after the end of the playtest, so the earliest practical start date would be around March 1st.

There is also a shortage of shipping containers at the moment. We are advising clients to be prepared to accept a 1 month delay in products from China and other East Asia ports.

All put together, I would expect, with the playtest ending on February 5th, the earliest delivery date would be the middle of August, possibly into September. Barely possible to have items to retailers by the street date of August 5th, assuming that 4 month figure I mentioned also included the 3 weeks to sort in the warehouse (which I do not recall if it does or not) but unlikely.

All of that, combined with my confidence that they can produce a quality product without a second round of playtesting, leads me to think this upcoming playtest is not for Secrets of Magic. I think, and have said a couple times in various places, that there is an unannounced rulebook coming out in either November of December of 2021, and that the new classes will show up in that book. I also think there's an unannounced Starfinder book coming out a month ahead of the PFRPG2 book for the precog to release in.

Another ability I would like to see, and the Commander feels like a good fit for it : being able to transfer hero points between characters.

Ok I'm ready for the Captain / Commander / Strategist / Tactician / Warlord base class!

I mean what else could that picture be!?

Ok I'm ready for the Captain / Commander / Strategist / Tactician / Warlord base class!

I mean what else could that picture be!?

Obviously a model Crafter.

rainzax wrote:

Ok I'm ready for the Captain / Commander / Strategist / Tactician / Warlord base class!

I mean what else could that picture be!?

Obviously a model Crafter.

Toy Summoner!

Ok I'm ready for the Captain / Commander / Strategist / Tactician / Warlord base class!

I mean what else could that picture be!?

Art they re-used from page 131 of the GMG, the "Nations" chapter which was originally supposed to represent some official bigwig engaging in strategy that also could be used to represent "you- the playtester"?

Ok I'm ready for the Captain / Commander / Strategist / Tactician / Warlord base class!

I mean what else could that picture be!?

It's apparently reused from the GMG, but itd be very odd to use it if it's not teasing something in this context

Apparently, in an episode of Arcane Mark, Mark said that the art represented the developers with a "we've got plans" feel. It has nothing to do with the classes being play tested. Or so I have heard.

There's really no reason to be clever with "we know the classes, but we won't tell you what they are, but we will leave little crumbs and hints here and there for you to find out" since that's way more work for Paizo than "we're gonna announce the classes on [date]" and they regularly are working on things without telling us what they are (like work on the AP after "Strength of Thousands" has probably been done already.)

Like they didn't do the "solve our clever puzzle" thing for the previous two batches of new class playtests, so why start now?