Cleric Class Preview

Monday, April 23, 2018

Clerics are the first spellcasters to get a preview, so you might want to look at the blog about spells before you proceed! We have a lot to say about this class, so let's cut to the chase!

Cleric Features

Clerics' key ability score is Wisdom. This means that they get an ability boost to Wisdom at 1st level, increasing their Wisdom score by 2. They also use this key ability to determine the DC of their spells. Like other things in the Playtest, spells are also affected by your proficiency. Clerics are trained in divine spells, so they add 10 + their level + their Wisdom modifier for their spell DC. They use this same proficiency for touch attacks of their spells and for spell rolls.

At 1st level, clerics get several class features, including their deity and domain, anathema, channel energy, and of course, divine spellcasting (which we'll talk more about in a bit). Your deity has a major impact on your character, and you'll see a lot of similarities to Pathfinder First Edition, such as being trained in your deity's favored weapon and getting access to one of their domains. (Come back on Friday for a ton of detail about those parts of your character!) Your choice of domain gives you a unique domain power. Powers are a special type of spell that come only from your class, and are cast with Spell Points—think of things from Pathfinder First Edition like domain powers or a wizard's school powers. Powers are stronger than cantrips, but not as strong as your best spells. A cleric's initial power costs 1 Spell Point to cast. She gets a starting pool of Spell Points equal to her Wisdom, and can increase this by taking feats later on. If she gets other ways to cast powers of a different type, she combines all her Spell Points into one pool.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

A cleric's deity also imposes some restrictions on her, collectively called anathema, representing acts that go against her deity's will and teachings or violate their alignment requirements. Though we give some examples of anathemic acts for the various gods and goddesses—like how it's anathema for a cleric of Sarenrae, goddess of honesty, to cast a spell that would help her lie better—we wanted to leave this broad enough that the GM and player can make the final say in how these work in their games. Many other classes that follow similar restrictions have their own anathema. Care to guess which ones those might be?

As you go up in level, you'll increase your proficiency rank with divine spells to expert at 12th level, master at 16th level, and legendary at 19th level.

Divine Spellcasting

Of course, the cleric's main feature is her divine spellcasting! At 1st level, you can cast two 1st-level spells each day, which you prepare from the selections on the divine spell list. Every time you gain an even level, you get one more spell slot per day of your highest level of spells (so at 2nd level, a cleric has three 1st-level spells per day). At every odd level, you get access to a new level of spells. You'll always be able to cast two or three spells of your highest level and three spells of every lower level, plus your cantrips and powers. Like your other spells, your 9th-level spells cap out at three spells, so at 19th level you become legendary in spellcasting instead. So what about your 10th-level spells? We'll talk about those in a future blog!

We made your number of spells more straightforward by eliminating Pathfinder First Edition's bonus spells granted for having a high ability score. Your Wisdom still matters greatly for your spell DC and other things important to clerics, but giving it slightly less weight makes it more practical now for you to play a cleric of Gorum who focuses on Strength and uses spells that don't involve your spell DC or that have decent effects even if your enemy succeeds at its save.

Now, it's not quite true to say those are all the spells you get. Remember channel energy from earlier? This feature lets you cast heal or harm an additional number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier! Moreover, these spells are heightened to the highest level of spell you cast, so as soon as you hit 3rd level, all those heal or harm spells become 2nd-level spells. This replaces the Pathfinder First Edition cleric's spontaneous healing, which required her to sacrifice her prepared spells to make room for a heal spell. Now, you can use your channel energy to cast these extra heal spells, and if you think you'll need more healing than this provides, you can always prepare more heal spells using your normal spell slots (in fact, this can be a good use of some of your lower-level slots as you go up in level). Your choice of deity determines which spell you can cast with channel energy. Pharasma lets you cast heal, Rovagug makes you cast harm, and someone like Abadar or Lamashtu lets you choose your path at 1st level.

Cleric Feats

As we've mentioned before, we always wanted Pathfinder Second Edition to provide all classes with a sizeable number of options for customization. The cleric was one of the classes that had the most to gain, since a cleric got a bunch of class features at 1st level, then crickets for the rest of her career. The cleric's new class feats give her all sorts of new flexibility, so let's look at some of those!

At 1st level, you might pick Communal healing so when you cast heal to tend to a creature other than yourself, you regain some Hit Points too, or you might take Turn Undead, which forces undead that critically fail their saves against your heal spells to flee from you. (This works great with the 3-action version of heal!) You could also pick Expanded Domain to explore your deity's domains further, gaining the initial power from a different domain than the first one you chose. You can select this feat twice, letting you delve into a maximum of three domains!

At higher levels, you gain new cleric feats at every even level, except levels 12 and 16, when you increase your spell DCs instead. At 4th level, you might pick up Advanced Domain to gain the advanced power from one of your domains. At 8th level, if you channel positive energy, you could take the Channeled Succor feat so you can cast remove curse, remove disease, remove paralysis, or restoration with your channeled energy spells instead of just heal.

Let's take a look at a category of feats clerics have plenty of: metamagic! You can activate a metamagic feat when you cast a spell. This increases the number of actions required to cast the spell and modifies the spell in some way. At 1st level, for example, you could select Reach Spell to let you add a Somatic Casting action to a spell and increase its range by 30 feet (or to make a touch spell into a ranged touch spell with a 30-foot range). This is a metamagic feat lots of spellcasters can take, but the cleric gets some others that are more specific to her as well. Command Undead, a 4th-level feat, lets you change the effects of any harm spell you cast to instead take control of an undead creature. Heroic Recovery, an 8th-level feat, adds a powerful buff to heal spells: you can target one creature at range using 3 actions (the 2-action version of heal, plus another action to activate the metamagic) to heal them for a solid number of hit points and also give them a bonus to attack and damage rolls and a 5-foot increase to its speed for 1 round. And if you use a lot of metamagic, the 20th-level cleric feat Metamagic Channeler is a great choice—it lets you apply a metamagic feat to a harm or heal spell without adding an action to its casting!

So what are your favorite parts of the new cleric? Any builds you're itching to try out? How about concepts you made in Pathfinder First Edition you'd like to take another shot at?

Logan Bonner
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Clerics Kyra Pathfinder Playtest Wayne Reynolds
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Grand Lodge

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Hmm, rebalancing the number of spell slots I see.


Clerics. Now that's surprising, as I thought the next class must be the fan favorite Wizards...

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Edit: Some more feelings about this...

- Classes give you stat boosts at 1st level, Confirmed. Now I'm frightened about some players' sixth senses...

- They said "Divine" spell proficiency. Do the Arcane/Divine lists persist, unlike what the forumites had been guessing?

- (Probably) all divine classes' "restrictions" united into Anathema. Hah!

- Bonus spells by high casting stat butchered. Finally, so they did work for balance (at least a leashing from cubic to quadratic progression)!

- Some even levels give you a sort of fixed choice (like Divine spell proficiency updates) instead of choosing your class feat.

- Harm seems to be a 1st circle (or whatever) spell, too. Good bye, Inflict spells...


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I like this.

Liberty's Edge

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Oooh, neat. That looks super fun.

I definitely like the one Domain but the ability to Feat into up to three. That's cool.

Anathema are also very nice. Definitely a fun interaction between that and your God. Also probably a part of how Paladins will work.

I also like that whether you heal or harm is no longer strictly alignment linked, but based on deity. Lamashtu can heal now.

It also provides some general system information we lacked previously:

-How many spells you get per level as a prepared caster (less than in PF1, but not cripplingly so, especially with Spell Points and domain Powers plus maybe Cantrips).
-How Save DCs are determined (I predicted this. Yay me!)
-The fact that not every Class gives you a Feat every even level. Which is interesting.
-The fact that you get Proficiency with a spell list. That's cool, and works.
-How Clerics free healing stuff works (Cha is still relevant to your healing abilities, which is cool).
-Some of how metamagic works.


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A spell blog and a caster blog? Clear magic bias... ;)


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I like most of this. I was surprised to see that Channel Energy and Spell Points are not connected. I was expecting them to draw from the same pool. My knee-jerk reaction is "don't like!" because I thought the whole point of Spell Points was to get away from having to track several different resource pools. I'll wait to see how things play out at the table though.

Silver Crusade

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"Remember channel energy from earlier? This feature lets you cast heal or harm an additional number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier! "

Simplified to Spell Points only to immediately complicate it again with 3+CHA abilities? I'm curious why.

Lots of great detail here, though! plenty to dig through


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Wow, this is cool! Very much looking forward to trying out a new Cleric.

Some non-Cleric related info that we got:
Looks like Metamagic = +1 spellcasting action. Neat!

You get a +2 Ability score buff from your class. (Wasn't it also said that Backgrounds give Ability score bonuses, too?) Looks like ability scores are going to be a lot higher than in PF1. I really like the ability to make a competent character of a non-optimal race.


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Some questions that I have after reading this:

1) Why does channelling use a different pool than Spell Points?
2) Spell points = Wisdom (as written) or Wisdom Modifier?
3) (edit, nevermind, found the info just scattered)


So the sense in which your deity matters is:
Favored Weapon
Access to Domains
Anathema

I guess that's just one more thing so it shouldn't take too long to flesh out some of the deities that won't make it into core, like Ng or Nivi Rhombodazzle (presumably.)


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The decrease of spell slots is kind of weird to me. But I guess this is the interaction now that you can take lower level spells and slot them higher for more effects. I wonder if you get more or less spell slots overall at the end.

I know it is not strictly said here but do Clerics have access to all spells like before and don't need to learn them?

I can't wait for the Paladin reveal also.


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Very interesting that metamagic Reach Spell doesn't seem to increase the spell level!

(Also, I love that Lamashtan clerics can choose to "channel positive". That totally fits my vision of Lamashtu!)

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I wonder if a Wizard will have to use DEX to hit their targets versus Intelligence as a balancer for a Cleric having to use CHA for their channels versus Wisdom.

Spell points?

*winces*

Is there a better name for that game-y item? Please?


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Cleric seems cool, it's always been one of my favorite classes! But that is not many spell slots, feels like AD&D. Hope the domain powers are really good to make up for the options.


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I'm surprised with the decrease in spell slots. On the other hand, if cantrips and powers get some more punch compared to PF1, then it makes sense (EDIT - also, considering the save DC is now the same for all spell levels). This will reduce the effort and time needed for the player to decide on their prepared spell list: Very welcome, especially at high levels.

Metamagic is now applied spontaneously at the cost of more actions. I think this is great. The big issue for metamagic for prepared casters in PF1 was that you had to use a metamagically upgraded spell in a higher spell slot, and that was usually inferior to a higher level spell except in cases that were hard to plan for. As a result, I only ever used metamagic with spontaneous casters or with a metamagic rod (which is really a crutch, not a real fix to the issue).

So PF2 makes metamagic a heck of a lot more usable. The cost of an extra action makes a great deal of sense. Now, I'm just wondering what becomes of Quicken Spell. Maybe it no longer exists?

Liberty's Edge

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Thebazilly wrote:
You get a +2 Ability score buff from your class. (Wasn't it also said that Backgrounds give Ability score bonuses, too?) Looks like ability scores are going to be a lot higher than in PF1. I really like the ability to make a competent character of a non-optimal race.

This isn't strictly true. the way they look to be doing it is that each stage of character creation has stat bumps...but those are basically all you get. For example, we know that Kyra in a demo game had Str 14, Dex 12, Wis 18, Cha 14 and probably 10s in Con and Int. That's better than 20 point-buy in PF1, but only a little.

The current theory (which seems likely to be close to right) is:

Ancestry: +2 to two specific scores, -2 to one specific score, one floating +2 (probably two floating +2s instead for humans)
Background: +2 to one specific score, one floating +2
Class: +2 to one specific score
First Ability Up: Four floating +2s

That's allow for the stats Kyra has listed above, make sense with this Blog, and allow for some flexibility.


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Only three spells of each level feels low, but without knowing more about cantrips and domain/etc powers, it might just be fine.


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Ooh, lots to chew on here, mostly good stuff! Breaking it down from my perspective...

Positive:
Scaling spell DCs! Makes those lower-level slots useful!
Caster mod to spell attacks! Something I've wanted ever since seeing it in 5e.
Tweaks to metamagics! I was kind of expecting something like this but I do think it's the right way to go.
Anathema! Looks like this will replace alignment restrictions, which is nice. Much more flavorful and helps differentiate the deities better.

Ambivalent:
Ability boost to your primary stat at level 1 - gives you more room to put your point buy in fleshing out your character, but seems like it would inflate stats a bit?

Negative:
I could be reading this wrong, but it sounds like 2e is sticking with true Vancian casting, which is a big disappointment for me. I was hoping for a full shift to arcanist/5e-style preparation. I maintain that having to guess whether you're going to want 2 or 3 Fireballs in an adventuring day is not fun or immersive.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Is there a better name for that game-y item? Please?

Why are "hit points" fine but "spell points" are not? I legitimately do not understand the difference beyond "one of them is new."

Sovereign Court

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Wait, Lamashtu will let you heal? Really?


Do we have any idea what being Trained/Expert/Legendary will mean for spellcasting?


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Liked the addition of anathemas, calling out for clerics to remain close to their deities ideas is nice.

Didnt like the reduced spell slots at all.


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So, based entirely on this post, Clerics are heal boots as nearly everything that has been lined out revolves around casting heal or harm spells. Thats kind if crappy.

Also, I cannot stess enough how much I despise the fact that 2E renames all of the options "feats" instead of different names. Class talents, character feats, and skill unlocks or something. Anything other than using the same word for different things. It's character level, caster level, and spell level all over again.


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I like that heighten works on an opposite axis from metamagic. However, for some spells, you won't be able to apply metamagic because they already require 3 actions I assume?

Since we've previewed metamagic, the action system, and spellcasting, can we get an answer to this question:
1. Can a spell be cast over the course of multiple rounds if it requires more actions than we have in a round (recovering from unconscious, already took a move...)?
2. As a bonus, can a spell have multiple material/somatic components, or is metamagic limited to spells without the appropriate component?


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Iammars wrote:
Wait, Lamashtu will let you heal? Really?

Well, somebody's gotta take care of all her little monsters, right? It's not like it's Urgathoa.

Liberty's Edge

worldhopper wrote:

Ambivalent:

Ability boost to your primary stat at level 1 - gives you more room to put your point buy in fleshing out your character, but seems like it would inflate stats a bit?

See my above post on how this is likely to work. It's speculative in terms of detail, but pretty clearly correct in terms of general principles (ie: they've said they won't be using point buy, Backgrounds give Ability ups, etc.).

Paizo Employee Designer

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Bardic Dave wrote:
I like most of this. I was surprised to see that Channel Energy and Spell Points are not connected. I was expecting them to draw from the same pool. My knee-jerk reaction is "don't like!" because I thought the whole point of Spell Points was to get away from having to track several different resource pools. I'll wait to see how things play out at the table though.

Spell Points are used for abilities unique to their pool and to the class. The spells from channel are essentially more prepared spells per day.


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So presumably two other classes that have anathema or something similar are the Druid or the Paladin. I really hope that these are class-specific rather than deity specific (with the possibility that certain options may alter them.)

I feel like, in core at least, clerics should be the only class defined by their choice of deity.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am betting spell slots have been adjusted because the expectation is that your going to be relying pretty heavily on domains instead

Which honestly I like. domains allow a lot better customization I think than a generic cleric list

Liberty's Edge

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Tels wrote:
So, based entirely on this post, Clerics are heal boots as nearly everything that has been lined out revolves around casting heal or harm spells. Thats kind if crappy.

Eh. they still have their Domains and all their actual spells to do other stuff. Going into that is just more of a 'its own blog post' length subject.

Tels wrote:
Also, I cannot stess enough how much I despise the fact that 2E renames all of the options "feats" instead of different names. Class talents, character feats, and skill unlocks or something. Anything other than using the same word for different things. It's character level, caster level, and spell level all over again.

Class Feats are pretty distinct from General Feats. Sure, it's two words to write to be clear, but the ability to play a new class without learning a whole new nomenclature is well worth that price of admission.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Modules, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Biggest take away - Lamashtu, the mother of Monsters, is neutral now?

Biggest Take Away No. 2 - yay anatehema, I can't wait to read the dnd greentext on tyrannical gms enforcing anathema (I'm not even being sarcastic, I can't wait).

What the heck?

I feel like I still have a very shaky understanding of what spell points are and I am a little wary of having three different pools of resources (channels, spells, spell points) to track. I suppose this isn't much different than use-limited domain powers on clerics to begin with but it sounds like spell points are going to have a bunch of different uses?


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This... bodes poorly. I do hope Wizards get a larger selection of spells, seeing they're the arcane counterparts to Clerics, but the elimination of bonus spells for higher ability scores really limits the Cleric. Sure, they get two spells for each odd level (which is about on par with what they'd get with Wisdom spell bonuses), but usually casters could be getting upward of six spells per Spell Tier. (And I still say that Spell Level is confusing as it's too many levels.)

It also seems to weaken the Cleric with every Even level compared to the Odd levels where they get two spells of the highest level. Are Cleric Class Feats going to be so good that they negate the benefit of that second (or fourth, rather) spell for the highest level?

And no, Channel Energy/Heals don't make up for this. You have between 3 and probably 7 extra uses assuming you boosted your Charisma to 18. And then that's it. It doesn't grow. So it's a static amount of "heal spells" that remains unchanging unless you spend Feats to boost it, contrasted to actual spells. Further, it is using what Channel Positive Energy already did... so you basically took away Cleric spells and said "well it's actually Channel Positive Energy for Heal spells!" without giving anything in return. It's quite the way to make Clerics less attractive for players to run.

Also, how do Metamagic Feats work? You mentioned Reach Spell - is the primary effect increasing the casting time of the spell? Does it also increase the spell slot needed, thus a 1st level touch spell is a 2nd or 3rd level Reach spell?

What else can you tell us? What was the thought that went into this recreation of the Cleric class? (And what of the Oracle? I assume since it wasn't mentioned at all that you're not combining the Oracle with Cleric or Sorcerer?)

As an aside, if you added TWO new core classes instead of just one and had the Oracle as the Divine counterpoint to the Sorcerer even with the Alchemist being added, that would probably make a lot of folk happy, and would make sense thematically.


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Logan Bonner wrote:
Bardic Dave wrote:
I like most of this. I was surprised to see that Channel Energy and Spell Points are not connected. I was expecting them to draw from the same pool. My knee-jerk reaction is "don't like!" because I thought the whole point of Spell Points was to get away from having to track several different resource pools. I'll wait to see how things play out at the table though.
Spell Points are used for abilities unique to their pool and to the class. The spells from channel are essentially more prepared spells per day.

So this means the "why" could be something like: Clerics (or PC clerics at least) normally need a large pool of healing. We didn't want that healing to eat into their spells per day (or else they only prepare heals, or just end up spontaneously converting all their spells to cures). We also didn't want to combine their channel with their spell pool, so they don't feel guilty about using pool points for domain powers rather than channel?


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Lamashtu lets you pick healing? Interesting, I wonder if any good deities let you pick harm. This is a cool change :)


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tivadar27 wrote:
...for some spells, you won't be able to apply metamagic because they already require 3 actions I assume?

I imagine each metamagic feast will specify which component it adds. If your spell already includes that component as an option, the metamagic would not apply.

The Exchange

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MMCJawa wrote:

I am betting spell slots have been adjusted because the expectation is that your going to be relying pretty heavily on domains instead

Which honestly I like. domains allow a lot better customization I think than a generic cleric list

My biggest fear is just that we are going to end up with very same-y builds because inevitably, much like Desna in 1e, one god is going to have better domain accesses than everyone else.

This is already coming into focus since the stat gen is sounding very 13th age, which will probably result in the same sort of characters who are all very much the same in terms of background.


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Pretty good overall! I guess someone other than Mark is also allowed to write detailed blogs once in a while, haha.

I'm glad to see in Anathema something similar to what I've been recommending about a Code for classes dedicated to a deity. Now just add the Obeisances / Obediences from later PF1 books to give the class even more flavor, and we'll be good. :D

Confirmation of what we expected re classes giving a bonus to the relevant ability score, and this does seem to put the nail in the coffin for point buy being a thing. I kinda expected there would also be a floating ability bonus or two at this step, but maybe they just left that out, or the rest of the floating stats come in an as yet undescribed fourth step.

Interesting about the lesser number of spell slots. This is probably to counterbalance the fact that you can now use scaling cantrips and also have all those free heals. Works for me, though I'm still very curious about the actual execution of the 10th level spells. I can wait for that blog though. :)

I still don't like the name Spell Points. And I'm confused about Channel Energy using its own separately determined pool per day when the implication was that abilities such as that would be folded under Spell Points. Huh. I guess we'll need to see more for me to get a read on that.

I do like that healing or harming with your Channel is based on your deity, rather than your alignment!

I like the execution of metamagic adding actions to a spell, rather than spell levels. I would venture that you could potentially make a spell take two rounds to cast if you were willing to risk interruption and wanted to apply lots of metamagic? Just a guess. Looks like we were wrong about metamagic costing spell points, but actions works just as well.

Tying Turn and Command Undead to your use of the Heal or Harm spell makes sense, especially since Channel is changed to be focused on those spells.

One important thing - this article gives confirmation that you DON'T always get class feats at every even level. Some classes, like the cleric here, "break the rules" and thumb their nose at the supposedly universal class advancement table they've been touting. Considering how much they've been leaning into that, is that a good thing? Or maybe it's still universal and EVERY class does something other than a class feat at 12th and 16th? I guess we'll have to see.


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eddv wrote:
Biggest take away - Lamashtu, the mother of Monsters, is neutral now?

They didn't change Lamashtu's alignment, they changed how channeling positive/negative energy works. Presumably, it's based on the individual deity's temperament now instead of the deity's alignment. The blog also says that Pharasma provides heal instead of a choice.

It makes a ton of sense to me to have Lamashtu allow her clerics to either heal or harm, even though she is evil, and that Pharasma would not allow her clerics to channel negative energy (allowing access to Command Undead).

Paizo Employee Designer

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NielsenE wrote:
Logan Bonner wrote:
Bardic Dave wrote:
I like most of this. I was surprised to see that Channel Energy and Spell Points are not connected. I was expecting them to draw from the same pool. My knee-jerk reaction is "don't like!" because I thought the whole point of Spell Points was to get away from having to track several different resource pools. I'll wait to see how things play out at the table though.
Spell Points are used for abilities unique to their pool and to the class. The spells from channel are essentially more prepared spells per day.
So this means the "why" could be something like: Clerics (or PC clerics at least) normally need a large pool of healing. We didn't want that healing to eat into their spells per day (or else they only prepare heals, or just end up spontaneously converting all their spells to cures). We also didn't want to combine their channel with their spell pool, so they don't feel guilty about using pool points for domain powers rather than channel?

Indeed, we're eliminating the tyranny of forced (or pressured at least) conversion of the stuff you wanted into heals by giving you a bunch of free heals.


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Three spells per spell level, eh? I guess the better cantrips are justified as your "Magical Auto-Attack/Left Click" now, whereas your proper SPELLS are meant to be your "number key" abilities.

Liberty's Edge

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eddv wrote:
Biggest take away - Lamashtu, the mother of Monsters, is neutral now?

That seems an...odd takeaway from that post. Especially since Pharasma can only heal now.

My takeaway was that which of those you do was based on deity, not alignment. So Gorum or Ragathiel might be harm only despite not being Evil, while Pharasma is heal only despite being Neutral and Lamashtu gets to pick despite being Evil.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Ah, well.


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Tangent101 wrote:

What else can you tell us? What was the thought that went into this recreation of the Cleric class? (And what of the Oracle? I assume since it wasn't mentioned at all that you're not combining the Oracle with Cleric or Sorcerer?)

As an aside, if you added TWO new core classes instead of just one and had the Oracle as the Divine counterpoint to the Sorcerer even with the Alchemist being added, that would probably make a lot of folk happy, and would make sense thematically.

I would basically go around telling everyone I met to buy 2E if Oracles were in core.

I'm curious about some of the thought process on this iteration, too. It does seem to lean VERY heavily on Heal/Harm. I'm sure we'll see more with the implied domain post on Friday, but it'd be neat to have at least some little tidbit of a cleric feat or something that doesn't revolve around one spell.

Paizo Employee Designer

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When discussing the spell slots, the spells for high ability score aren't just gone with no replacement; you also get more of your best spells automatically (2 of your best spells at odd levels, 3 at even without counting channel/domains, as opposed to PF1's 1 at odd 2 at even without counting channel/domains). While at very low levels, a heavily optimized character (starting at 20 casting stat and aggressively pushing headband) might be getting 2 bonus spells or her highest level from ability scores, that tends to be impossible to keep up by about level 5.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
NielsenE wrote:
Logan Bonner wrote:
Bardic Dave wrote:
I like most of this. I was surprised to see that Channel Energy and Spell Points are not connected. I was expecting them to draw from the same pool. My knee-jerk reaction is "don't like!" because I thought the whole point of Spell Points was to get away from having to track several different resource pools. I'll wait to see how things play out at the table though.
Spell Points are used for abilities unique to their pool and to the class. The spells from channel are essentially more prepared spells per day.
So this means the "why" could be something like: Clerics (or PC clerics at least) normally need a large pool of healing. We didn't want that healing to eat into their spells per day (or else they only prepare heals, or just end up spontaneously converting all their spells to cures). We also didn't want to combine their channel with their spell pool, so they don't feel guilty about using pool points for domain powers rather than channel?

Indeed, we're eliminating the tyranny of forced (or pressured at least) conversion of the stuff you wanted into heals by giving you a bunch of free heals.

They're not free heals. They're Channel Positive Energy. It's what Clerics already had.

You took away several spells per spell level and said "look, you can heal using this mechanic (that Clerics already had), isn't it nifty?"

Oh, and you nerfed it by taking away the ranged aspect. So you can focus a channel positive energy or use one that is effectively two levels lower in power.


Fuzzypaws wrote:


Confirmation of what we expected re classes giving a bonus to the relevant ability score, and this does seem to put the nail in the coffin for point buy being a thing. I kinda expected there would also be a floating ability bonus or two at this step, but maybe they just left that out, or the rest of the floating stats come in an as yet undescribed fourth step.

I'm not sure that's true. I could see a shallower point-buy initially, or possibly something that's *not* point buy but gives you freedom of choice independent of your categorical choices ("you choose X ability scores to give a boost to, and Y to get a penalty to...").

And I still want to know how all of this works with multiclassing... I'm going to guess your first level class will be your "primary" class, but who knows.

Liberty's Edge

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eddv wrote:
My biggest fear is just that we are going to end up with very same-y builds because inevitably, much like Desna in 1e, one god is going to have better domain accesses than everyone else.

Well, getting anything beyond a single Domain Power is something you Feat into, so any Deity with at least one good Domain (and pretty much all are gonna have one) is valid for a non Domain-focused build.

eddv wrote:
This is already coming into focus since the stat gen is sounding very 13th age, which will probably result in the same sort of characters who are all very much the same in terms of background.

Given we have lots of evidence that there will be at least a couple of dozen Backgrounds and that they probably grant a floating stat mod in addition to whatever pre-chosen stuff...I'm not sure this gonna be as big a problem as all that.


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Blog Post wrote:
Every time you gain an even level, you get one more spell slot per day of your highest level of spells (so at 2nd level, a cleric has three 1st-level spells per day)

I have to admit, I had to reread this a few times. Spell levels are confusing since they don't really line up well with character/class levels.

I do like a lot of what's here though.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Modules, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It also seems odd to me that you need to buy your better domain abilities with further feat investment now.

Not only because that makes domain feel a bit less consequential to your overall character but also because it really cuts off some of the design space for subdomains down the line.

I suppose that it does fit the overall theme of nerfbats for everyone but the fighter and rogue though.

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