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Well, I finally made it back to running a campaign after, I think, almost a year and a half and what better way to return than to do the awesome new Hell's Rebels AP, with its delightful plot and urban nature? ^_^
Now, since this campaign HAS a player's guide, I don't really feel the need to put a campaign synopsis, as the HRPG has all those nice bits of fluff and PC-friendly details that you will need. If you have yet to download it and see what the AP is about without getting spoilers, follow this link to the official download page, courtesy of the wonderful people at Paizo!
CHARACTER CREATION
Starting level: 1
Ability score buy: 22 points, 1-1 should suffice.
Classes available: All Paizo, 3PP upon request.
Races: As above, no custom, nothing crazy.
Starting gold: 450 GP.
Traits: 2, plus campaign Trait. I MIGHT allow drawbacks for more, but you will need to make a case for those.
Bonus feat: 1 at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th.
Stats (BAB, HD, skills, saves, ect.): You get two 'upgrades' at character creation. These may be applied to any of your class stats, which will increase by one step upon use. Skill starved? Use an upgrade to bring that 2+INT to 4+INT! Want a full BAB melee wizard? Use both of your upgrades on BAB and be a terror in both melee and ranged combat!
Class features: Upon character creation, you select another class that makes sense for your character. From that class, at 1st, 5th, 10, and 15th level, you gain a class feature from that class from that level or earlier, apart from spellcasting. At 20th level, you gain the class capstone from that class in addition to your actual class capstone.
EXPECTATIONS
1. Use the character creation guidelines as they are written without bending the rules.
2. Use common sense in dictating how much is 'too far' on a character concept.
3. Build a character that actually seems like a character, not a set of stats that grunts during social interactions who has no friends or family because he spontaneously self-conceived.
4. Post about what you bring to the campaign if you are selected. And don't think that cookies will help! There's already enough of them on this side of the GM table.
5. Don't worry about other characters in the recruitment. As a friend of mine pointed out to me a few days ago while I was creating rules for this campaign that I needed to state this so that there would be no back-and-forth arguments in the recruitment thread.
I am confused, are you using a different method for buying points?
Yes. Instead of scaling points, they are just 'spend one point, increase score by one'. It's a system that TSP, now known as Divinitus, and I both have used since the days of D&D 3rd Edition! It's much less confusing and requires much less straining your eyes against a chart to find out that it takes 17 points to get a score to 18.
You might want to specify the basement of points to which point you add 22 (usually 8, but it is your game).
Just curious, does this AP actually go all the way to 20?
Goes to about 17-18 from what I've heard - slightly higher than the average.
This is amazing, dibs on magus with full BAB and Full spellcasting.
The campaign is supposed to go to around 18, without the continuing the campaign sections. I obviously plan on using those if everyone is game after the no-doubt epic conclusion of the campaign! ^_^
Just to clear up a potential question before it is asked, you may use the extra class features at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level to gain abilities from archetypes. This would let you have cool stuff from archetypes without having to sacrifice normal stuff that you want. To be clear, that would preclude you from gaining the class features from another class, just that archetype.
Basement of ability scores: 08
Initial ceiling of ability scores: 18+modifiers
Bane88: How do you intend on getting full casting? You mean using a full caster and making it magus-like with full BAB? The upgrades do not apply to spells, as those are not really stats. The reason I mention is because I saw magus and full-casting in the same section! :P
I just figured that since spells are divided into steps. (1/2 for paladins, rangers etc, 3/4 for magus, warpriest) I thought I could upgrade it.
Oh well. Maybe a full BAB magus with all good saves. How do you feel about the eldritch scion archetype for magus?
Bane88: I see what you were thinking! Ultimately, the reason that I left spellcasting out of the class features and upgrade sections is, because of the way the Vancian system works, it is ridiculously complicated trying to codify into a system where it can be balanced with these sorts of rules. Out of fairness to people, the same no-touch rules for magic apply to psionics and similar systems. And what about Eldritch Scion? It is an approved archetype!
I'm just debating it. It's nice to have CHA as a casting stat but it makes the 2+Int skills really hurt because of the lowered importance of INT. Hmm. Think I'll stick with vanilla magus and see what happens. Maybe take Rogue's edge or something as my bonus class ability at 5.
Maybe a brawler would be amusing. I'll need to check out the players guide to the AP.
Oh and there are some lore changes, since this campaign is going to assume that every AP up until it has happened! These changes will be put in campaign information under spoilers, so those in the APs do not get unintentional spoilers. :) The changes will be, of course, those wrought in my home campaign, which USUALLY ended on a good note. That said, there was one colossal screw-up that is going to leave a somewhat dark note on the lore change, but most of it is overwhelmingly positive.
It should go without saying, but the feat Leadership is banned. Not sure why I didn't put this in the original post!
I think I'll be recreating an old escapED Cleiax slave for this. Pyrokineticist fits him all to well. Bumping BaB to full and Hit Dice to d10.
Poor little guy never got to finish kingmaker. :(
I'd love to throw my hat in here
I'll retool and maybe redesign this guy
He's a Halfling Eldritch Archer Magus using a Halfling Sling Staff but I might turn him into a Fighter.
EDIT: He was made for this AP but never got to see it.
EDIT2: The "borrowing" of the class features, can those come from archetypes? I'm thinking of the Eldritch Archer's ranged spellcombat/spellstrike.
It just seems way to appropriate that some one should be a divine caster of Milani. I am still trying to decide if I want to go Cleric or Warpriest.
EDIT: The Cult Leader Warpriest archetype trades your bonus combat feats for a sneak attack. Is getting the feats back an appropriate use for a class upgrade?
Cuan: Yes, as one of my last posts said. Isn't he already an Eldritch Archer though?
Nohwear: Yes, if you think that those extra bonus feats aren't enough! :P
hey GM Infernal Mistress, thanks for running the game, a quick question, how long will you be leaving recruitment open?
I put together this character for and earlier game, but didn't get accepted. Since then I have started in another game and I am about at my limit, I need to decide if I have room on my plate for one more games.
I may revamp Taldo and apply with him, or create a separate character for your game, just need to know how long I have to decide.
He is but with archetypes being allowed he might just try going full caster with spellstrike instead.
Then again, depending on how strict you are on it he'd need to grab an arcana at lvl 10 to be allowed to spell combat at all, considering he won't be casting Magus spells.
I just downloaded the player's guide and might be interested in playing an urban ranger for this once I get a chance to sit down and read through it.
So just a dot for now.
When are you looking to start?
Sounds interesting. Dot for now but I'll think about it.
Interesting...
Class features: Upon character creation, you select another class that makes sense for your character. From that class, at 1st, 5th, 10, and 15th level, you gain a class feature from that class from that level or earlier, apart from spellcasting. At 20th level, you gain the class capstone from that class in addition to your actual class capstone.
How do level-dependent effects work with abilities that would typically scale with level (i.e. if I grabbed a witch's hex, the DC would normally be based on 1/2 level).
Dotting as well, depending on another recruitment I might apply to this one, already got a ggood idea of what I'll submiit for it too.
Recruitment and starting date? I am going to leave a date off of this recruitment, since recruitments usually end up taking longer than planned, which pushes the start date by a good bit. I'm a little bit squicky with the notion of promising a date and having to change it at the last minute.
I will probably leave recruitment open until I see the tide of potential recruits turn into a trickle, as is wont to happen, and then I will close recruitment and select based on what people have done at the time! It will be no sooner than a week though, since I want to see well-thought out characters instead of cardboard cutout statblocks with the barest sliver of a personality attached... and a brostache!
Level-scaling abilities: They would work assuming your level, unless I specify otherwise. In the case of sneak attacks, they cap at a maximum of 5 dice per selection, meaning that it takes 2 class feature purchases to allow sneak attack to cap at 10 dice.
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I would like to put forth my character Septimus Falkland, a city watchman whose become rather disliking of the Cheliaxian system of law and expecially the new management the city is under. He is a Tactician Fighter so has more skills and leadership ability than a normal fighter so should be a good addition to the group I think.
Hmm, I think an inquisitors judgement and bane abilities would complement an urban ranger just fine. I'll be working towards that end. I had the idea of him being a bounty hunter of sorts, but that is still very much a WIP.
Hiya Infernal Mistress! Member me? lol :P
If you pick a scaling class features(Smite, Judgement, Weapon Training, etc) do you need to keep choosing the same at each increment to get more uses per day, higher bonuses et el?
OK, got a build worked up.
The Krupt family once ruled the metalworkers guild in Kintargo. They had a large, profitable factory crafting weapons, armor, and more mundane items of good quality steel. Then Wilhem, the head of the family fell afoul of a local Asmodean priest by offering an insult. This insult was merely not to invite him to a banquet, but that was enough.
The Asmodean used his influence and knowledge of the law to systematically strip away the ability of the Krupt family to do business by imposing regulations, inspections, and steering away city contracts. The family was ruined, and Wilhelm chose honorable suicide to palliate the Asmodean from going after any of the rest of his family.
This did, however, leave the family much less well off with Vince and his siblings being forced to take menial jobs. Vince took a job with a friend of his father in a forge. He had no interest in metal work, but it was good exercise. What Vince liked was fighting. When not at work, he spent all his time watching the fighting pits and training with the fighters. Eventually he was able to get a spot in the fights, and using his experience at watching how fighters gained a psychological edge, was able to intimidate even the experience fighter he opposed. This was enough for him to win. His rather affluent background, and fairly good looks got him the name 'prettyboy', which has helped his appeal in the ring.
However when the new Thrune inquisitor came to town and clamped down, one of the first things he did was shut down the fighting pits. Vince now found himself out of a job, and really quite angry. He was good at fighting and now he couldn't do it. Heck, if even even got in a bar fight he'd be in big trouble under the current regime.
Vince 'Prettyboy' Krupt
Human (Chelaxian) brawler 1/fighter 1/gestalt 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 23)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +4
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 13 (1d10+3)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +6 (1d6+6)
Ranged throwing axe +3 (1d6+5)
Special Attacks martial flexibility 4/day
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Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; CMB +6; CMD 19
Feats Dodge, Hurtful, Improved Unarmed Strike, Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack
Traits bloody-minded, ex-asmodean, mizu ki hikari rebel
Skills Acrobatics +4, Climb +7, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (local) +4, Perception +4, Profession (gladiator) +4, Sense Motive +4, Swim +7
Languages Common
SQ brawler's cunning, martial training
Combat Gear acid, alchemist's fire (2), caltrops (2), smoke pellet, smog (2); Other Gear chain shirt, throwing axe, canteen[UE], hip flask[UE], manacles, masterwork backpack[APG], silk rope (50 ft.), trail rations (5), 129 gp, 5 sp
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Special Abilities
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Brawler's Cunning (Ex) Count as Int 13 for the purpose of combat feat pre-requisites.
Hurtful Make melee attack against creature you have just demoralized as free action.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Martial Flexibility (move action, 4/day) (Ex) As a Move action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.
Martial Training (Ex) Brawler levels count as fighter/monk levels for feat/item pre-reqs and effects.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
The upgrades are will save and skill points per level.
You might want to specify the basement of points to which point you add 22 (usually 8, but it is your game).
Just curious, does this AP actually go all the way to 20?
Just because folks can stat drop a little, not sure they should, unless racials do that. with a 22, 1 for 1, and stat upgrades, we are powerful enough, and we should rp. Anyway, I'm interested, and I'll see what I can come up with.
Also question about stat upgrades.
If we have full bab, can that be upgraded? Barbarians can upgrade HD? Monk like saves can be upgraded? Rogue like skills can be upgraded? Or do we cap?
Another question:
Say I stay with the Eldritch Archer (which I most likely will) and I take Fighter as my secondary/partial class. What happens if I select bonus feats as my class feature? Do I get a single feat or do I get the fighter feature for the first 5 levels (so an extra feat at 1, 2 and 4) including the ability to replace one of them at 4?
I assume it won't be more than the first 5 levels at max simply because of how you ruled on Sneak Attack and because it would be rather silly to get the entire feature.
In addition, if I'd take weapon training would that one weapon group scale as normal? (I'm assuming I need to pick it again if I want a second weapon group).
Level-scaling abilities: They would work assuming your level, unless I specify otherwise. In the case of sneak attacks, they cap at a maximum of 5 dice per selection, meaning that it takes 2 class feature purchases to allow sneak attack to cap at 10 dice.
I think this should answer most everyone asking about the secondary class abilities. They scale with your level just as if you had levels in the secondary class. So, they would scale as normal.
dot
Dotting for interest.
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I just figured that since spells are divided into steps. (1/2 for paladins, rangers etc, 3/4 for magus, warpriest) I thought I could upgrade it.
Oh well. Maybe a full BAB magus with all good saves. How do you feel about the eldritch scion archetype for magus?
Just thought I would come in and mention you can kind of build a Magus with full spellcasting.
Use the Blade Adept Arcanist archetype and select Magus as your secondary class. Now you have spell Strike at first level as one of your exploits and spell combat from the extra class feature. Spend your class upgrades on BaB and HD to have Average BaB and D8 HD like a Magus. You can pick up Spell Recall at 5th or something or whatever else you feel like because you can pick up Magus Arcana instead of Exploits if you need it.
I'm probably not going to do this but just mentioning it as a possibility.
Stat upgrades and their caps: Characters with the normal maximum in a class stat, such as d12 HD, full BAB, a good save, 8+INT skills, ect, cannot use an upgrade on that particular stat. Every class that is on the SRD can still make use of both upgrades, even the Monk, as each class has at least 2 'imperfections' regarding statistics.
Monkeygod: How could I not remember you?! ^_^ To answer your question, read this again.
Level-scaling abilities: They would work assuming your level, unless I specify otherwise. In the case of sneak attacks, they cap at a maximum of 5 dice per selection, meaning that it takes 2 class feature purchases to allow sneak attack to cap at 10 dice.
Because of the dearth of options available to PCs that involve scaling, each with varying levels of power, there was no way to quantify a set blanket rule and a list would be rather long, possibly hitting the wordcount.
Cuan: In the case of bonus feats, those scale up 2 feats at a time. The way Paizo has some classes set up, the feats count as a class feature each, but I don't think that 2 feats are the equivalent of, say Divine Grace or Diamond Soul, hence my ruling of 2 per selection. You would gain them at the normal levels.
Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention that all skills are treated as class skills. Why can't a fighter dedicated to a church know a lot about religion or a wizard blade-mage have some skill in acrobatics, after all?
I think this sounds like fun.
Every revolution needs people willing to dirty their blade so I was thinking of a slayer. Not sure if I would want add fighter for the feats or rogue for the extra tricks.
If not a slayer then I have a wizard I wouldn't might revamping. Not sure what I'd add to her.
Any thoughts?
Been wanting to try this AP for a while. Hopefully, this concept isn't too crazy for consideration.
Submitting Kiirok the Sneak, an adopted kobold sorcerer (Serpentine bloodline) and librarian's assistant who wants revenge on the new government for burning his adoptive mom's bookshop (and his book collection!) and forcing her into hiding.
Think I'm gonna put those two "upgrades" into BAB and HD. Should give him some more value in battle due to his small size.
Err, just a quick question, but how active do you plan to be while GMing. Last I checked, both you and your friend TSP/Divinitus are both very enthusiastic about starting new games...and then have a habit of vanishing from the campaign for days/weeks/months/years. Like, I don't really want to be *that guy* who derails your recruitment, but considering that posting history, its probably something that should be asked and answered :(
Spacefurry: Both could be awesome! ^_^
Kiirok the Sneak: That's not too far out there. I was mostly using that to keep players away from Android technomancers, godling children of Aroden, and other such boff.
It became progressively harder to continue keeping up posts, both due to personal reasons and because it was harder and harder to keep the internet bill paid when my boyfriend of the time drank up most of the money.
That chapter of my life is, thankfully, behind me.
As for TSP/Divinitus, he told me a few days ago about his own travails when he finally came clean to people about who he was and stuff. I think he can speak for himself in that regard.
Does it look bad having, I think, 6 failed campaigns of my own (Echoes of the Sephira, Fall of Talingarde, both tables of Razor Coast, Carrion Crown, and Grimm Tales comprise the list, I think!) and several of his that I tried to help him co-GM with when his problems started on my campaigns list? Yes. People make mistakes though and a large majority of people on the boards, at least from the olden times when I played, have had to dip out of at least one campaign. Some bite off more than they could chew, like I did. Some have real life happen, like I did. And some people just don't feel like playing in a campaign anymore, which is bad but understandable in some cases. But that's perfectly fine!
I'm not really sure what to say except... I'll make sure to post as much as is feasible per day? Again, I don't want to give an exact number of posts, because it creates unreasonable expectations. I could say 2 but, if I am busy and only get one in, it leaves people disappointed and I HATE disappointing nice people! :(
I CAN tell you though, no joke, that I will try to make at least one post per day unless circumstances dictate otherwise, in which case I will try to let you all know why I can't even if it is a just a short blurb like "Hey, can't post today, because boss asked me to work overtime." Does that help? ^_^
Oh, maximum HP!
Well, it's about time for the weekly Hellfire Citadel raids on WoW! If you guys need to do some mythic progression, join our guild on Proodmoore (Alliance) or Steamwheedle Cartel (Horde)! I didn't play last week, but apparently TSP/Divinitus got the magic moose for killing Archimonde! Hope I can become the proud owner of the magic moose tonight! ^_^
Welcome back RVT! Good to see you again!
I'm going to throw Lazur Anil in for this game. I originally made him for the 1st Hell's Rebels posting I saw a few months ago and will need to update him to your rules.
Looking forward to this.
EDIT: Are you sure you wanted stats to start at 8? It takes 12 points just to get back to 10 and that leaves 10 points. The stats I was going to use ended up being a 12 point buy on the Paizo system, 2 14s and a 12.
How similar will you make this to the normal Hell's Rebels? With the increase in powerlevel I assume there will at least be some differences?
Re scaling features: Can I buy a full eidolon for only 2 of the slots? Similarly for the summon monster SLA? That seems kinda powerful... All four slots seems more fair. How about stuff like discoveries, hexes, relevations, rogue talents and so forth. A lot of them aren't more powerful than feats (in fact there are feats for extra x for most of them), does that mean you get 2 of them for the cost of one feature? For buying features of a bloodrager, how does progression work? Can you buy bloodrage at first level then the 4th level bloodline power at 5th(skipping the first one entierly)? A bard the summon monster SLA might be kinda cool. Why would you stage a performance by yourself when you can have a whole crew?
dotting
Ok, ok, I really want to play this... I just had a look at the AP player's guide and it looks good, this seems promising.
I have a character which I want to play so bad, and the games I come into always get stuck. It'z a Zen Archer, I could re-do it to fit the AP (trying to do it Neutral Good, for example, as I see Lawful PCs have a hard time). I would love to try it out. I'll give you a story at the end of the post.
What can I offer to the game? Well, I'm not the most experienced player, nor the most expert at RP. I'm also not a rule master. S~##, English isn't even my native language. So you could say I don't really excel at anything.
But on the other hand, I don't suck at anything either (well, mostly anything, computers are still an unknown world to me). I can RP acceptably, I know the game more or less, I love to have fun and I spend a good quantity of my day online. My english shouldn't be that bad. Sometimes I can do good jokes. Ok, laugh at good jokes. And well... I know you said no cookies, but I can do cheesecake.
That being said, here's more or less the backbone of what I am intending to play. Most of it is useless, but hey... I had it written anyway, so why not share it. When I work out the stats and read a bit more, I'll try to link the PC to the city somehow.
My mother died when I was very young. I had a hard childhood. To everyone, I was a stranger, someone who had extraordinary and feared qualities. All of them were pointing at me and calling me horrible names at my back.
When I was ten, my father got married again. He was the Night Warden, the protector of our village, so he easily found a woman for him. That was a big mistake.
At the beginning all was fine, but when time and fire-water abuse started to take its toll on him, my stepmother began to turn her eyes on other men. Among all of them, she chose the most envious, vile and treacherous man there was in Nighthaven: “Cutthroat” Thydek.
Many moons they spent preparing a plan. They spread poisoned lies among the family, scorning my father's name and reputation, making them believe that Ashlan the Hunter was a useless old drunk, father of a bastard born of Darkness itself. And on a night of new moon, they executed their plan. So vile was it that they were ashamed that our Totem-Mother could witness it. They killed my father, my siblings and all other members of the family who hadn't believed their lies. I managed to escape; took my father's Bow of the Moon and fled. I was only twelve and no match for any of the adult warriors. The only solution was to come back in the future, to avenge my family's blood with the Bow of the Moon, the traditional and sacred weapon of the Night Warden.
I ran, and walked, and even crawled. I was afraid of everyone, of everything. From the little information I managed to gather by spying on some hunters' bonfires, I deduced our clan leader of the Lyrune-Quah was caught in their web of lies. He was told that my father had been drunk and got into a fight, that an accident happened. An accident. I also heard that my stepmother married Thydek, and he became the new Night Warden.
But they hadn't found the bow. I had the bow, and only I and my Totem-Mother knew it. She was a witness to my vows of vengeance. For some months, I roamed through different territories, trying to survive on my own, but I wasn't much successful. I don't think I would have survived much longer if I hadn't found my Master.
Sobek was his name. He found me while I was unsuccessfully trying to string the bow. He told me he could teach me. And a lot of things, he taught me. He treated me like a pupil, but also like a son. He taught me archery, but he also taught me his language and some of his costumes, for he was from a far away land called Cheliax. There, he had been a famous archer, but on his elderly days he had decided to roam the lands of Golarion seeking enlightenment. He took me to his home city, Kintargo, and raised me as his family, for he said that was the last part on his path to enlightenment - to leave a legacy.
After some time, the Master was required to meet his ancestors. It was hard for me, but it was clear that the Master had to wane for the pupil to wax. Armed with valour, the Bow of the Moon and Master Sobek's old teapot, I began life at Kintargo on my own.
Class features: Upon character creation, you select another class that makes sense for your character. From that class, at 1st, 5th, 10, and 15th level, you gain a class feature from that class from that level or earlier, apart from spellcasting. At 20th level, you gain the class capstone from that class in addition to your actual class capstone.
I don't understand how this would work. For example, if I take Bardic Performance does that mean I'm allowed to use it the number of times a day a Bard would be allowed?
What about Class Features that use things like Grit or Panache? Do we get pools for those? If we chose one of the Swashbuckler deeds like Derring-Do as our Class Feature? Would we automatically get the Panache pool?
Thanks for any clarification.