Simulacrum of Vraxeris the Illusionist

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DM Raltus wrote:
Did you mean "to" instead of "of?" Counter port looks like it has no upper limit unlike Planar Channel does. The Limit would be on the amount of Conjuartion spells you have and the level. Unless I am miss understanding.

I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm not sure which is the correct preposition, but you're probably right. What I mean is to use intelligence instead of charisma for that part. I don't understand why sorcerers or oracles would get to use their main ability modifier while wizards can't.

I assume planar purge got a limit because it doesn't offer a save. Abilities with saves are naturally more resisted by higher level opponents, but this doesn't give one.

If I go wizard I'm considering going into the Riftwarden prestige class. I would then take favored prestige class and eventually prestigious spellcaster 3 times. Riftwarden seems extremely fitting for this campaign, especially given the background trait for my character. I got a couple questions about this though. First, what do you think of the idea, is it ok to offset the drawback in this way? Secondly, can I key the counterport abilities of intelligence rather than charisma (like is done for the Planar Channel ability)?

rolling for hp: 2d6 ⇒ (4, 3) = 7
What wealth are we starting with?

I'll make a void school wizard with the riftwarden orphan trait for this I think. Though I could also make a half-orc scarred witch doctor.

Monkeygod wrote:
Any suggestions on continuing the point buy costs past an 18?

19 cost 4, 20 cost 5, 21 cost 5, 22 cost 6 etc. It just increase by 1 every even.

Do we have any deadline for when we need to be done with our character?

For equipment, you've listed "stuff that makes sense"... But it would still be nice to have a wealth guideline to go by. There are a lot of things I want and most of them might not make sense for a character of this level.

Also, can I change the wis bonus from werewolf over to cha?

Animal companions are usually a bad idea in a normal mythic game...

I'm working on my character, but it'll take a bit of time. Looking like it'll be a Warlord (Desperado) // Sorcerer (Eldritch Scrapper, Eldritch Warlock) with undead bloodline. I figure that instead of actually descending from undead, one of my character's parents fought heavily against the creatures and the taint somehow have leaked into my character...

I'll change my vote over to 2 normal feats per level and 1 mythic feat per tier.

Did you miss my last posts at the end of the previous page?

For feats, just decide something, then we'll build based on that. Personally I think 1 feat per level and a mythic feat every other rank is fine.

One feat per level usually means 4 feats, you don't duplicate those for gestalt... But I won't have a problem putting 8 feats and 4 mythic to good use either.

So, I'm looking at weapon choices. How double barreled shotgun works seems a bit unclear to me. I figure it's best if it's somewhat similar to rifle in powerlevel so we're not forced into all using the same weapon. How does the following interactions work:

A) Scattershot with spellstrike or PoW strikes? Do you apply the effect of the spell\strike to every target hit? That seems to be the most logical way to play it, but it's powerful.

B) Double Shot... It's normally a standard action to fire both barrels for 2d8 per bullet plus static bonuses, but at a -4 to hit. Is it a single or a double action? Can you do -4/-4/-9/-9(/-14/-14)?

C) If you can do both bullets as a single action, can you Vital Strike with them? So 4d8 per bullet? 2d10 from a rifle has a hard time competing with 8d8...


I'm also in favour of ABP. The idea behind making it count as higher level is probably to make the items more in line with the power of the rest of our characters. Gear also give a large portion of defensive power, so it might balance out offense\defense ever so slightly.

For the action economy issue I would like to echo the previous suggestion that everyone get an extra action that can only be used for swift.

Sebecloki wrote:
My inclination is to use the unchained action economy, but just house rule and tweak the stuff (like the swift action issue) if there are concerns about for various builds.

Yeah, you're the GM, so you decide what way to go.

Since it's not clear if spell combat actually does something, I'll go drop that. Instead I'll go for a Warlord (Desperado)//Sorcerer or a wizard coupled with a sphere of might class.

Ouachitonian wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:
Ouachitonian wrote:
When you say to gestalt two Mythic progressions, do you mean that we get two path abilities at every level? Or are we basically just getting the Dual Path Mythic Feat for free?
exactly like gestalt rules but with mythic paths -- I', mot sure about the dual path feat. I mean apply the gestalt rules for classes to mythic paths -- like you get all the stuff for each at each tier as if you had both of them.

I guess my question is this:

Normally, you get a Path Ability at each tier, chosen from your path's list of Path Abilities (or the Universal Path Abilities). If we're gestalting two paths, do we A) Get two path abilities each tier, one from each of our paths (or universal) or B) We get one Path Ability per tier, chosen from either of our two paths (or universal)?

B) is essentially what you get from taking the Mythic Feat Dual Path, so it seems like B) is essentially equivalent to getting that feat for free, where A), giving you a greater number of Path Abilities than you'd normally get, is significantly more powerful.

I think he answered that it's A upthread.

Oh, I saw that answer. I just wanted to confirm I had understood it correctly.

I think you missed the following two questions from the huge post above:

When you say there's no limit on max abilities, does it mean we can start with above 18 in scores before racials? 19 cost 4, 20\21 cost 5 etc?

I kind of want to use the spheres of might Magus archtype runic knight. Spellstrike from it works with guns, but unfortunately spell combat still require a melee weapon. Would it be possible to allow using spell combat with guns for this archtype? Alternatively, could I combine Eldritch archer and runic Knight despite them not normally stacking, getting ranged spell combat at 8 and ranged spell strike at 2?

(Though if spell strike turns out to be useless, I might go in a different direction entirely).

The issue with unchained action economy is twofold:

1) It greatly changes balance of a lot of things, which isn't really a problem, it just means we need to relearn the entire system.

2) it's not actually clear how things work:

a) Spell Combat (which a lot of people seem to want) is straight up worse than just taking an advanced action to cast a spell then using a single action to attack by the way I'm reading things. Is that correct or do you have a fix to this?

b) What action is vital strike/Sphere of Might attack action? I'm guessing both of these are single actions (making them a lot more powerful than in the base game)?

c) What action are Path of War strikes (standard action, often involving attack with various extra addition)? I'm guessing these are mostly advanced actions or does it vary from maneuver to maneuver? Edit: Seems these are single actions (making them a lot more powerful than the base game)?

d) What action is a touch attack spell? I could see it counting as both a standard action and as an advanced action...

4d6 - 2 ⇒ (5, 2, 5, 2) - 2 = 12
4d6 + 1 ⇒ (4, 3, 3, 1) + 1 = 12
4d6 + 2 ⇒ (1, 3, 6, 1) + 2 = 13
4d6 - 1 ⇒ (4, 5, 1, 4) - 1 = 13
4d6 - 3 ⇒ (5, 3, 4, 6) - 3 = 15
4d6 - 2 ⇒ (3, 4, 2, 4) - 2 = 11

rerolls: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 2, 3) = 14

15 13 13 12 12 11, wow, that's pretty scattered about. Not sure what I even can do with that.

Gah, i had missed that part. That changes some of the things I wrote above...

So with rapid shot a character could either do -2/-2 instead of the normal 0/-5 or alternatively -2/-2/-7/(-12) instead of -0/-5/-10. A character with two weapon fighting and rapid shot could do -4/-4/-4/-9/-14.

So would a magus with spell combat be able to do spell and 3 attacks at -2/-7/-12? Or do you need 6 bab for the second "iterative". If you only get a single attack of spell combat... Then it's better to just do one attack then cast a spell?

A third interpretation could be that spell combat now is an advanced action rather than a full action, hence you can do spell + 2 attacks (-2/-7) or move + spell combat or swift + spell combat. Thinking about it, this seems like the by far cleanest solution. It makes the magus more versatile than it normally is, but you're left without the ability to abuse full attacks like a regular Magus could.

I guess I'll have wait to see what kinds of actions spell combat\vital strike\PoW strikes\SoM attack actions are before committing to a build :(.

Instead of spending time building a character, I'm left trying to figure out how these rules work.

We are still targeting touch in the first range increment with guns right?

If I can vital strike as a single action and then cast a spell, I'm leaning towards combining a full bab class with wizard instead of going magus.

Unchained action economy? Potentially with two different variations? I'll have to look into what that means. Probably the biggest hurdle for me for character creation is adapting to this. If I end up not being able to finish a character, this change will probably be the reason.

Edit: Some things are unclear to me about this... Casting a spell then doing one attack is 3 actions. Spell combat where you use rapid shot: 3 actions (2 attacks at -4 and the spell). Once you reach 6 bab you still only get 1 attack or two with rapid shot (the iterative doesn't exist under these rules). Two weapon fighting (two revolvers) and rapid shot and spell combat would allow 3 attacks with spell combat (at -6). Once you reach 6 bab you still don't get another attack, but you could take improved two weapon fighting for 4 attacks (at -6 for the first 3 then -11 for the final one)?

For a normal character, rapid shot normally does nothing, correct? Or can you take 3 actions to do 4 attacks at -2 each?

If this interpretation is correct, then spell combat is nearly useless... Another interpretation could be that spell combat allow you to make 3 attacks at -2 (which is the same as a regular character could make). With rapid shot you could increase this to 4 attacks at -4.

Sla\su abilities are normally 2 actions, so the void school power would be 2 actions, correct?

I'm considering going into path of war, but it kind of depends on what acetone they work as. Strikes are similar to spells, so 2 actions? Or are they one action since they rely on an attack roll?

Vital strike relies on an attack roll. Hence it should be a single action according to the unchained action economy rules. Mythic vital strike is almost like a full attack though. This feat is already pretty good in the normal game, but with these rules, anyone who doesn't go this path ends up vastly inferior(or something similar). For example there's no way path of war maneuvers (paragraph above) can compete with 3 mythic vital strikes in a round.

Spheres of power attack actions are a single our a double action? Most of them are just a single attack roll, just like vital strike. Would those be single actions? I guess those are an alternative to vital strike (though you can combine them). What about all the abilities built around attack actions, do they trigger on a normal attack? If so they could even stack with mythic vital strike.

Then some actions give you multiple attacks, barrage sphere for example. Barrage sphere and sniper sphere are balanced against each other, but if one is a single and one is a double action? ...

Alternatively mythic vital strike, attack actions from SoM and strikes from PoW are all double actions? This is the simplest path, but it does directly contradict the rules.

I'm quite confused, especially about how the 3pp content work (and feats like vital strike, rapid shot, cleave etc).

Swift actions is another thing that got their balance completely changed. You can now make an attack instead of a swift action, so most abilities that are weaker than an attack are now not particularly useful. On the other hand, if you're heavily reliant on swift actions, you could get off 3 of them in a round...


When you say there's no limit on max abilities, does it mean we can start with above 18 in scores before racials? 19 cost 4, 20\21 cost 5 etc?

I'll have to look into the options for multiclass archtypes for magus. Looks like there are multiple other people with the same idea. Though it depends on how you want spell combat to work. If it's the first interpretation then spell combat is useless.

I kind of want to use the spheres of might Magus archtype runic knight. Spellstrike from it works with guns, but unfortunately spell combat still require a melee weapon. Would it be possible to allow using spell combat with guns for this archtype? Alternatively, could I combine Eldritch archer and runic Knight despite them not normally stacking, getting ranged spell combat at 8 and ranged spell strike at 2?

For guns everywhere, gunslingers replace gunsmithing with gun training earlier. What about other classes that get gunsmithing? Can they also get gun training instead? Even if they wouldn't normally get this feature?

I'm quite interested in this. I've been wanting to play a magus//gunslinger gestalt for a while. That said, mythic being included makes me want to consider a more caster option, specifically void school wizard. Magus (Eldritch Archer) // Wizard (Void), using guns is not good enough, correct?

Alternatively, is it ok to replace gunslinger with Warlord (Desperado) from path of War or Mystic (Gun Smoke Mystic) also from path of war?

I like summoner, but understand it's not everyone's cup of tea. Maybe it's a better fit for another game. Regardless, I think I'll actually withdraw my interest as I got enough other games\recruitments on my plate already atm.

@Talomyr: I did say above that I would prefer that we're a couple. One of us female, the other male. Which do you prefer?

For class I'm thinking summoner.

In addition to Ouachitonian's question. Feats are only from those 2 sources, correct?

Some people don't like the normal summoner, but it is in the APG. Do you have anything against summoners?

Similarly, rogues may not be unchained, correct?

I'm interested. I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to couple with me for the Close Allies trait to be lovers? I haven't settled on what kind of character to make yet though.

I haven't finished up my character because the original GM disappeared... But I'll work on it if we have a GM again.

I would vastly prefer a single GM rather an a rotating rooster.

The main draw about Golarion for me is that it's a setting I already know fairly well. Learning a whole new pantheon and what exist in the world or not is a fairly daunting task. That said, I know very little about Iblydos. I wouldn't mind at all if you rewrote everything about it in your image.

The story presented is fairly sparse, you could write that from scratch if you want (even perhaps give us more direction than what we have already gotten)?

There will undoubtedly be more than enough players for two such games. If the original GM appears again you could just run in parallel.

@shontar: With two days left to go, you probably want to focus on fluff... He did say we're allowed to adjust crunch after selection. That said, piranha strike doesn't do anything, we get power attack for free from eitr. Also I don't think the shield bonus from dervish defender stacks with a regular shield.

Actually reflecting further on my character, some form of scaled fist martial tradition (SoM) would make a whole lot of sense. Scaled Fists get the Dazzling display tree as bonus feats, so Gladiator sphere + a talent from there makes sense, then monk weapon training and critical genius (natural weapon group, which include unarmed) to round it out.

I think I've finally settled on what I'll play (though I'm still a bit conflicted)... Summoner (Synthesist) 8 // Wizard 3 / Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist) 1 / Stalker (Vigilante, from PoW) 1 / Arcane Trickster 3.

That's just mechanics though, flavor-wise she has chosen to carry on the soul of her departed Pegasus companion, transforming into something peasus-centaur once melded.

I want to take a Martial Tradition from Spheres of Might. Is it ok to pick Milita Training but to replace the Beastmastery sphere with Gladiator Sphere? Ideally I would replace pheasant training with either a glatiator talent or a scout talent, but that's probably too much to ask (since the guidlines state that you should have at least 2 equipment talents for a custom tradition).

I'm also wondering if I'm allowed to pick a Path of War martial tradition. I would go with Lords of the Wheel if that's allowed.

Are we using fractional bab/saves?

The other idea I mentioned is also a summoner (synthesist). Is that a problem? I know some GMs view that class as problematic. For wings/flight, I assume they'll only work a minute per level until we get to 10th level?

The Hidden Blade pow archetype I mentioned earlier normally uses intelligence as it's initiating modifier. But for a ninja using charisma would make a lot more sense. Would it be ok to use charisma instead?

I think I'll withdraw my interest for this. I'm just not able to get this character together right now. Good luck with your game.

I was going half-orc with amplified rage anyway. But if you're going there as well, that'll save me from dipping a level into bloodrager to get a familiar. You can get amplified rage as an aasimar through the raciwl trait very that makes you count as human and then picking racial heritage.

Skald would qualify for the feat even without a dip due to the following sentence:

If an ally has her own rage class ability (such as barbarian’s rage, bloodrager’s bloodrage, or skald’s inspired rage), she may use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw bonuses, as well as AC penalties, based on her own ability and level instead of those from the skald (still suffering no fatigue afterward).

I'll pick up clw as a spell known anyway and I'll be using Skalds's vigor for self healing as well (until I can get the greater version to share it).

3d8 ⇒ (6, 7, 1) = 14

I've been trying to build a caster focused godling\harbringer, but that's quite complicated. I realise there's another character I've been wanting to play for a very long time that might work for this game... Would you allow either of the following?

A) Ninja is basically a rogue archtype... So can it take rogue archtypes? Specifically I'm looking at scout and hidden blade (from pow), they are both compatible. For hidden blade it sets your initiation modifier to int, but cha makes a lot more sense for a ninja. Can I key it is int?

B) dual progression prestige classes are sometimes frowned upon in gestalt. Can I go arcane trickster?

As I said, it's 2 fighters, a ranger and a skald. A paladin would be kind of funny, 5 mostly martial characters. I think it could work though. Cleric is certainly also an option (shaman, witch, druid or oracle would also be great). I kinda like the Paladin idea best myself, but it would mean least variety.

What deity would you worship? I was originally thinking Shelyn for my character, but I could swap to match. A performer and a holy warrior of the goddess of beauty and arts would make sense though.

Maybe we could link our backgrounds? Both associated with the princess somehow? Maybe our characters could even be a couple? If you're a paladin we would both have 18+ cha. That would make sharing rulership a good option.

Sapiens wrote:

I have an idea, or two, but one requires GM opinion.

** spoiler omitted **

Note that even if the GM doesn't allow this, the Swashbuckler Whirling Dervish archetype works with Bladed Brush, though then you would have to wait until 4th level to get dex to damage.

Oniwaban wrote:
I am happy to create something else, if needed. I assumed you were trying to fill in the rogue niche by being an arcane trickster, and I am instead trying to fill in the offensive caster role mentioned above. But I am not married to it, and can fill in whatever is needed. :D

I was honestly trying to fill both roles. Arcane Trickster is a full spellcasting progression prestige class. I would lose one level to qualify though, which makes my progression kinda like a sorcerer.

Make what you want. I see that one of the players have said they wouldn't mind having two full casters (either divine or arcane). I'll be having conjuration as a banned school, so if you focus on such spells we won't overlap much at all.

Uh, the character I'm building will be a wizard as well, just a single level of alchemist in order to qualify for arcane trickster... But two full casters can certainly be in the same party, though there could be some overlap.

I'll be taking evocation school and using plenty of rays as well as illusion for defense, though other buffs and a few other offensive spells as well.

True. It's up to you to choose what to do. Was the spell list a big problem in your game then?

I love the orginal summoner and don't like what they did with the unchained version, but I understand someone feel completely the opposite.

Baleful Polymorph you get as a 4th level spell, which means level 10. Wizards can already pick it at level 9 when they get 5th level spells and it'll be one level higher for them so higher DC...

As for haste being lower, the nice thing about that is that it helps everyone in the party, so it doesn't steal the spotlight... Why does wizards have to be better at everything?

EDIT: It seems you deleted your post, making mine look a bit silly...

I'm either going without an archtype or picking spirit summoner (life). There doesn't seem to be a healer yet.

For spells, you're mostly getting stuff at the same level or later than wizards, though I guess haste is a notable exception.

I'll be building a (chained) summoner for this with a crush on Ameiko. Hope that is ok? If not I'll be trying to find something else.

Re: Seducer, there are plenty of NPCs right in the adventure path you can do that with. You don't need a cohort...

All the three characters in the game are good. That's why I was also thinking to grab the smite evil trait. Though if everyone are ok with an evil character (or at least someone summoning undead), I'm fine with swapping that for something else. I could build my character so that it wouldn't be too much of a problem, though unfortunately the undead wouldn't benefit from the hefty bonuses from the skald song.

A cleric would be perfect though. There are 2 fighters and a ranger in the party and I'm looking to build a skald (with a dip in bloodrager).

Coming with the princess sounds great. If you could please PM me some info about her, I could build my background with that in mind. Is she connected to any particular deity?

After twisting my head sideways to try to fit mesmerist into my build... I discover that the 5th level stance from Eternal Guardian lets you ignore fear and mind-affecting immunity... I would have to wait a level and of course using it would make me unable to use another stance at the same time, but it seems like a much easier option to overcome enemies being able to overcome my cool tricks.

At 6th level a Harbinger gets Advanced Study(granting 2 new maneuvers known) or Discipline Focus. At that point you have access to 3rd level maneuvers. I don't really want more of those, but I'm very tempted to get more 4th level maneuvers. Would I be allowed to "dealy" that choice until 7th level so I could chose 4th level maneuvers? Alternatively, could I retrain the feat at 7th which I guess would only cost 350 GP... So I guess I'll just do that if I don't pick Discipline Focus.

Do you allow spells like blur to let you use stealth? The rules for stealth says "If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth." And blur does grant concealment. Some say this only applies to dim light or darker though.

If I can't use blur I'll just have to use magical fog and walls or the like to hide. But it would impact my spell selection quite a bit as well as actual tactics depending on if this works or not.

I'm starting with scribe scroll. Can I craft half price scrolls for my starting money? Since they are consumables it won't really affect my effective gear value much.

Ok, then I'll skip on the VMC idea, without retraining I think it gives up too much for the trickster idea.

I'm thinking to combine one level of a class that grants sneak attack with the feat Accomplished Sneak attacker in order to qualify for arcane trickster. One option is of course unchained rogue with regular trapfinding. Another option is alchemist with the vivisectionist archetype. That would normally leave me without trapfinding, but I could take the Vaultbreaker archtype. Though I wonder, can I combine those chemist-archetypes/vivisectionist/ and chemist-archetypes/vaultbreaker-alchemist-archetype/ (and also I would like to take chemist-archetypes/crimson-chymist-alchemist-archetype/ but that isn't necessary for the idea to work)? And if I do so, could I use the vaultbreaker's Penetrating Charge ( lchemist-discoveries/penetrating-charge/ ) despite not having the bomb feature?

Hope it's not too much troubles with the various archetypes. I could just go unchained rogue for the first level if that's easier for you.

Where exactly is this campaign set? Is it in the river kingdoms?

There are a lot of campaign traits listed. Can we pick from all of them? I could perhaps take Scourge of Evil for Erastil to get a tie in to Jevar T'soryn. Alternatively would it be allowed to pick bastard as a half-orc?

Who is this princess, what is her name and what country is she a princess for?

Can I take a drawback in return for a third trait?

VMC strands for variant multiclass. It's a ruleset that let you trade half your feats for a set of class abilities for a given class. You can find more information on this page:

With the variant multiclass rogue option I would eventually get enough sneak attack that I wouldn't need a level of a class granting sneak attack to qualify. Though it only makes sense to go this route if I can then retrain. Do you think there will be time for retraining in this campaign (and do you even allow those rules?).

I would like to throw my hat in the ring. I'm thinking a Virtuous Bravo Paladin of Shelyn with VMC Cavalier (order of the star). Do you allow VMC and would you allow order of the star to stack with paladin for lay on hands? Also could I combine the Bladed Brush feat with Slashing Grace for dex to damage with a glaive? For race I'm thinking Museborn Aasimar or halfling...

The character would certainly be able to fill the tank role. Though it seems hard to fulfill all 3 of those requirements with just 2 people. Though I guess you could have something like a caster rogue, an arcane trickster or seeker sorcerer. Or perhaps a tank rogue of some sort.

I've kinda been wanting to build an arcane trickster for some time. There are multiple ways to go about that. I guess I could take one level of rogue then into wizard. Another way involves VMC rogue and retraining the first level class that granted sneak attack once you get to level 7. Would that be ok? Would it be feasible in this game or is there no time for retraining?

What level would this be for and what gold would we start with?

Sable Soren is a GMPC, or just a prominent NPC?

What starting funds do we get (WBL?) and how are we doing hp?

What do you think of a half-orc skald with a dip in bloodrager? She'll be giving out hefty buffs and hold her own in melee. Since everyone left in the party benefits from the strength buff I think it would fit quite well. She won't be focused on crowd control, but her spells will provide plenty of buffs and utility and she'll be quite good at skills as well. With skalds vigor (eventually greater) and cure light wounds she could even provide a bit of healing.

I'll look at the options for tying her into the current setup of characters. Though the nature of the campaign is kind of open ended, so it might be able to work in something that makes sense regardless.

Edit: Seems you edited your post while I was writing. Unfortunately I don't have time to fix my post now..

Edit2: Do I understand it correctly that this game is ran as kingmaker where the group ends up running a settlement and eventually a kingdom together? I'm not sure what you mean by "what rulership variant you want to play".

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