War of Immortals AMA

[Perpdepog]

pixierose wrote:

BotBrain wrote:

Am I the only one that thinks a lot of these God V God fights indicated seem very ... random? I can't see what a lot of them would be fighting over in the first place.

A question for Divine Mysteries, perhaps.

From what I have read from the book, 3 major things are happening.

1) Gorums death has caused three potential resources to fall across the Universe. This mainly is what mortals are dealing with but I imagine a lot of the deities themselves are either doing it gain power or prevent others more dangerous foes from gaining power.

2) Gorums death is causing a bunch of supernatural things to occur, mixing with or activating ancient relics. pre-existing phenomenon etc. Gods go to investigate these things, discover something or try to take advantage of said thing and others come to fight them. Sometimes while they are not directly opposed to each other, the nature of their solutions leads to them disagreeing and unable to settle things they fight for what they believe to be right.

3) From my understanding there appears to be both the natural reaction to stress causing people to behave more aggressive or irrationally, but there may also be a supernatural element to it. An enhanced desire or willingness to fight/battle. Cooler heads are not prevailing in these times as one might say.

I think the case for their being some supernatural or metaphysical aspect to all the conflict makes sense. Assuming that the way deities work isn't totally misrepresented in The Godsrain Prophecies, there are multiple instances of a god's death leading to their particular sphere of influence going haywire. Urgathoa's death leading to undead becoming more likely to arise, Nethys' destruction leading to magic spiraling out of control and working unevenly, stuff like that.

If we assume that is an actual function of how gods work, they act as a locus or balancing point for a fundamental force or concept, then Gorum's death leading to a net increase in the amount of war and fighting going on would be expected.

[Squiggit]

Trip.H wrote:

This mechanic outright flattens the dynamic decision-making of normal gameplay by so strongly penalizing anything that does not used the prescribed solution.

I think that's an overtly intense take here. It's more like it's primarily a ribbon ability that makes the monsters uniquely unstoppable when fighting non-mythic enemies, which is largely irrelevant to PC interactions.

[Calliope5431]

Trip.H wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

IMO "Strike" resistance is much, much worse than physical resistance. It's not just about "player power/ability" it's about design integrity and play consistency.

Bypassing that mythic Strike resistance is just a binary have/have not. Which defeats the whole point of it being something to consider and work around. Your party either has the tool and uses it, or they do not. There is 0 other in the moment depth to this mechanic other than "use the specific tool or suffer the consequence of not doing so."

This mechanic outright flattens the dynamic decision-making of normal gameplay by so strongly penalizing anything that does not used the prescribed solution.

And guess what, some classes like Alchemist are just s%** outta luck. Good luck giving the Alchemist a "mythic bomb," lol.

.

It's all so insanely arbitrary to have a "mythic bow" be able to shoot a creature fine (with mundane arrows!) yet another creature making strike w/ a magic sword or big bomb just cannot be effective.

That type of arbitrary "It's a Strike, therefore..." instead of it being an actual characteristic of the creature to have resistance to physical damage is just so, so immersion-breaking. That Crushing Grab will do it's damage totally normally, but you had better not swing to punch at them!

Like, the design of this rule is *so* stupid,
an Alchemist can throw something like a Silver Orb bomb that creates a cloud of silver shards that deals dmg each time(turn) a foes breathes inside the cloud of razors.

It's not a Strike, and there's 0 way a GM could finesse the mythic rules to trigger that Strike resistance. Meanwhile, the frag bomb loaded with razors will have an average of half or all of it's damage outright ignored.

Another example:
Kineticist's Jagged Berms is non-Strike Piercing damage that *also has no save!* This ability outright is able to be completely 100% unaffected by the mythic defenses of foes. It's absurd that this existing thing already breaks the mechanic in...

I feel like this is a screw you to casters in a system that already does a solid job balancing for them.

[VerBeeker]

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

[Deriven Firelion]

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

[PossibleCabbage]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

[BotBrain]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

No g&@@+*n way that's so cool

[Deriven Firelion]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

Brutal. Gorum met his match.

[PossibleCabbage]

I bet the Paizo devs who kept saying "Starfinder and Pathfinder are different continuities" and "just because someone is alive in Starfinder doesn't mean they're safe here" were grinning through their teeth knowing they were going to cash one of the big Starfinder mysteries.

[Errenor]

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

Hmm. I thought it was that hunter/killer of gods from one of the stories. But I guess not.

[exequiel759]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I bet the Paizo devs who kept saying "Starfinder and Pathfinder are different continuities" and "just because someone is alive in Starfinder doesn't mean they're safe here" were grinning through their teeth knowing they were going to cash one of the big Starfinder mysteries.

To be brutally honest, I feel that statement is whack. They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa. I think they probably said it more as "if we ever do something that doesn't match, its because they aren't the same continuity" rather than because they fully think of both systems as their own thing. Kinda like how the Zelda games have a timeline but each of them is pretty much their own thing.

[Mangaholic13]

exequiel759 wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I bet the Paizo devs who kept saying "Starfinder and Pathfinder are different continuities" and "just because someone is alive in Starfinder doesn't mean they're safe here" were grinning through their teeth knowing they were going to cash one of the big Starfinder mysteries.

To be brutally honest, I feel that statement is whack. They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa. I think they probably said it more as "if we ever do something that doesn't match, its because they aren't the same continuity" rather than because they fully think of both systems as their own thing. Kinda like how the Zelda games have a timeline but each of them is pretty much their own thing.

Actually, while Gorum was picked to be killed off was because he didn't appear in Starfinder (and didn't receive so much as a mention, unlike other missing gods like Torag), that was for the purpose of making it clear:

He's dead. He's gone. He ain't coming back.

BotBrain wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

No g$~&+@n way that's so cool

Oh yeah! I forgot they revealed that.

It is indeed a shocker for Starfinder fans... not as shocking as Pathfinder fans would have about those other deities though...

[PossibleCabbage]

exequiel759 wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I bet the Paizo devs who kept saying "Starfinder and Pathfinder are different continuities" and "just because someone is alive in Starfinder doesn't mean they're safe here" were grinning through their teeth knowing they were going to cash one of the big Starfinder mysteries.

To be brutally honest, I feel that statement is whack. They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa. I think they probably said it more as "if we ever do something that doesn't match, its because they aren't the same continuity" rather than because they fully think of both systems as their own thing. Kinda like how the Zelda games have a timeline but each of them is pretty much their own thing.

They clearly crafted the statement to shut down speculation of the sort "well, it can't be Shelyn, because Shelyn is alive in Starfinder" since "speculating about who is going to die" was driving the bulk of the hype cycle for WoI for a long time. They knew who it was going to be before they revealed "A core 20 God is going to die" but they wanted people to speculate while they held their cards close to their vest.

After all something like 11/20 of the Core Pathfinder deities were confirmed to be in Starfinder, so eliminating more than half the field from consideration wasn't great from a marketing perspective.

[Gisher]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

Huh. So my speculation back in April didn't entirely miss the mark, after all.

Gisher — April 17, 2024 wrote:

What if the hole in Gorum's armor wasn't caused by an attack from without but rather was caused by something hatching from inside him? ;)

There was something awful growing in that armor.

[PossibleCabbage]

Gisher wrote:

There was something awful growing in that armor.

It also highlights a double meaning about Gorum's answer to Calistria's question from Prey For Death.

Spoiler:

Quote:

all Calistria asked for in payment was a secret of his own: she asked Gorum to reveal his face, to tell her what lay within his armor. His answer, “Nothing,”

The armor wasn't empty so much as "It contained Nothing."

[Mangaholic13]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Gisher wrote:

There was something awful growing in that armor.

It also highlights a double meaning about Gorum's answer to Calistria's question from Prey For Death.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

A space between spaces, a nothingness which devours all that is until nothing remains.

A badass way to say it, in all honesty.

[Gisher]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Gisher wrote:

There was something awful growing in that armor.

It also highlights a double meaning about Gorum's answer to Calistria's question from Prey For Death.

** spoiler omitted **

Like a living Ginnungagap.

[Calliope5431]

Well, unprompted, I have just discovered that Wildspell (the mythic destiny) contains a rather fascinating focus spell called Arcane Explosion. Level 9 focus spell, comes online at level 18. You deliver a 30 ft burst of 16d6 damage, you full heal, then it gives you, for the next minute: immunity to precision damage, the incorporeal trait, resistance to all damage equal to your level, an aura of 6d6 damage to anyone within 5 ft of you, and it bans you from Striking, casting spells, or taking actions with the Manipulate trait while these benefits are active (you can Dismiss as normal).

Of course, kineticist impulses are fine...and that's a heck of a buff. Especially since Wildspell also has a way to give spells (like this one) away to other characters to cast...

[Xenocrat]

Calliope5431 wrote:

Well, unprompted, I have just discovered that Wildspell (the mythic destiny) contains a rather fascinating focus spell called Arcane Explosion. Level 9 focus spell, comes online at level 18. You deliver a 30 ft burst of 16d6 damage, you full heal, then it gives you, for the next minute: immunity to precision damage, the incorporeal trait, resistance to all damage equal to your level, an aura of 6d6 damage to anyone within 5 ft of you, and it bans you from Striking, casting spells, or taking actions with the Manipulate trait while these benefits are active (you can Dismiss as normal).

Arcane Explosion does the full heal when you dismiss it (and shed your incorporeality), not when you first cast it. Which is good if you’re planning to haunt some fools and soak damage while sustaining something like Spiritual Armament or Dancing Blade (Psychics benefit greatly from mythic and Wildspell - trade mythic points for focus refills, and Spellsurge's Mana Well option makes it so you can't fail a caster check, including from stupefy after you Unleash Psyche).

Also the text revealed in the Rules Lawyer's sneak peak video on Youtube doesn't show a 1 minute limitation on the incorporeality. Last sentence: "You remain as pure magic until you Dismiss your new form, returning to your normal state at maximum Hit Points."

[CorvusMask]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I bet the Paizo devs who kept saying "Starfinder and Pathfinder are different continuities" and "just because someone is alive in Starfinder doesn't mean they're safe here" were grinning through their teeth knowing they were going to cash one of the big Starfinder mysteries.

Eh, I still actually think they are in different continuities that this actually adds up to evidence. Like it never meant that they CAN'T share characters :p

Like to me this creates possibility that:

Starfinder universe could have been created to separate Devourer and Rovagug permanently whether it is some kind of divine simulation of Triune or not

[Calliope5431]

Xenocrat wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

Well, unprompted, I have just discovered that Wildspell (the mythic destiny) contains a rather fascinating focus spell called Arcane Explosion. Level 9 focus spell, comes online at level 18. You deliver a 30 ft burst of 16d6 damage, you full heal, then it gives you, for the next minute: immunity to precision damage, the incorporeal trait, resistance to all damage equal to your level, an aura of 6d6 damage to anyone within 5 ft of you, and it bans you from Striking, casting spells, or taking actions with the Manipulate trait while these benefits are active (you can Dismiss as normal).

Arcane Explosion does the full heal when you dismiss it (and shed your incorporeality), not when you first cast it. Which is good if you’re planning to haunt some fools and soak damage while sustaining something like Spiritual Armament or Dancing Blade (Psychics benefit greatly from mythic and Wildspell - trade mythic points for focus refills, and Spellsurge's Mana Well option makes it so you can't fail a caster check, including from stupefy after you Unleash Psyche).

Also the text revealed in the Rules Lawyer's sneak peak video on Youtube doesn't show a 1 minute limitation on the incorporeality. Last sentence: "You remain as pure magic until you Dismiss your new form, returning to your normal state at maximum Hit Points."

Right yeah I misremembered some of that.

Regardless, incredible for a kineticist, whether they take it or get given it by another wildspell. I mean. Not that you actually want to play a mythic kineticist otherwise. But it's very powerful in that regard.

[Xenocrat]

I don't understand why it's incredible for a kineticist (who needs spell slots to even qualify for Wildspell dedication). The auto force damage is very small and is just compensation if you have no other options because of something like mythics resilience shutting down your save effects. You can't cast spells, which is a negative effecting spellcasting, so you can't cast impulses while in this form. Are there good (not a wall) offensive sustained impulses you can activate before you do an Arcane Explosion?

[Zoken44]

Do the mechanics of the Apocalypse Rider and the Archfiend allow for heroic characters to take those dark mantles nobly?

[Arcaian]

exequiel759 wrote:

They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa.

There are actually contradictions between the settings at this point - things like Nocticula still being a demon lord with her old areas of interest. Changes to deities that are shared between the settings since Starfinder's release haven't been applied forwards - you could argue that they all just regress in their changes, but that seems like bad storytelling and a bit of a stretch.

[exequiel759]

Arcaian wrote:

exequiel759 wrote:

They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa.

There are actually contradictions between the settings at this point - things like Nocticula still being a demon lord with her old areas of interest. Changes to deities that are shared between the settings since Starfinder's release haven't been applied forwards - you could argue that they all just regress in their changes, but that seems like bad storytelling and a bit of a stretch.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the only instance in which Nocticula is mentioned in SF was in one of the early SF1e books when Nocticula was still a demon lord in PF1e too, so unless they mentioned her again at some point and I'm not aware (which is totally possible, I'm not big on SF lore) this is just a quote that didn't age too well.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

TheFinish wrote:

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.

** spoiler omitted **...

You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **

You can also press F to pay respects for:

** spoiler omitted **

I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).

Osirion SPOILERS!:

I wouldn't count Thoth out just yet. The text that was quoted suggested to me less that he was out-and-out killed and more that Nethys just YEETed him so far even HE doesn’t know where the heck Thoth ended up. Personally, either way I find Thoth's ****ing around and immediately finding out hilarious.

Dragon God SPOILERS!:

I like the rounding out the dragon gods are getting with this new Primal dragon, but GOODNESS that's an unfortunate name! It looks like you pronounce it like how the British say "garage." <_<

[Arcaian]

exequiel759 wrote:

Arcaian wrote:

exequiel759 wrote:

They clearly choose to kill a god that wasn't in Starfinder and (AFAIK) there's nothing in Starfinder that directly contradicts Pathfinder or vice versa.

There are actually contradictions between the settings at this point - things like Nocticula still being a demon lord with her old areas of interest. Changes to deities that are shared between the settings since Starfinder's release haven't been applied forwards - you could argue that they all just regress in their changes, but that seems like bad storytelling and a bit of a stretch.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the only instance in which Nocticula is mentioned in SF was in one of the early SF1e books when Nocticula was still a demon lord in PF1e too, so unless they mentioned her again at some point and I'm not aware (which is totally possible, I'm not big on SF lore) this is just a quote that didn't age too well.

Even if that were to be the latest reference to her, it'd still mean that the latest info on Nocticula in Starfinder is contradicting the latest info on Nocticula in Pathfinder, right?

[Xenocrat]

The only Starfinder info on Nocticula is a throw away line in a city description that she's one of the demon lords with temples in a shady religious district. It's meaningless.

[CorvusMask]

I also just think Starfinder as setting is better if its not "100% confirmed canon timeline to Pathfinder" tbh.

[Calliope5431]

Zoken44 wrote:

Do the mechanics of the Apocalypse Rider and the Archfiend allow for heroic characters to take those dark mantles nobly?

Not really. You gain the unholy trait with the 20th level feat for both of them.

War of Immortals wrote:

While neither the Riders nor their devotees feel obligated to make or keep promises, some mortals pledge their efforts to gain personal power and further the cause of entropy. Those destined to wreak the most destruction upon the world are known as apocalypse riders. Taking on such a mantle requires the utmost commitment to death and ruin. [emphasis added]

(...)

A devious archdevil who rises through the ranks of Hell’s hierarchy, a powerful demon lord who seizes their realm in the Outer Rifts by bloody coup, a fearmongering sahkil tormentor who builds a palace of nightmares in their own personal demiplane, and a sadistic velstrac demagogue who cuts a swath of agony through the Netherworld—all are archfiends. And while their motives, methods, domains, and minions differ, the evil they cause [emphasis added] and the power they wield are universal.

The example apocalypse riders include a crop-destroying druid who tries to bring the River Kingdoms to the brink of war, a human fighter who seeks to make Cheliax default on its contract with Hell so that there's even more carnage when the devils come to collect, and a "cruel human necromancer" reanimating legions of corpses to set off a war between Hwanggot and its neighbors.

The example archfiends are Moloch (archdevil of the sixth who canonically has people burned to death as sacrifices inside immense bronze bulls), Treerazer (need I say more?) and Raetorgash the Skull Hoarder, who "often judges potential subjects by the shape and composition of their skulls, usually by first having them removed from the containing skin and muscle."

These are not for nice PCs or noble PCs, though I guess you could make an argument for an archdevil who...has a code of honor? Maybe? But they're still cruel, vicious, and evil. I guess you could not take the level 20 feat and play a holy-trait paladin or cleric archfiend/apocalypse rider, but you're being somewhat deliberately obtuse at that point. And I have literally no idea what happens if you gain the 20th level feat if you already have the Holy trait...pick one of holy/unholy, I guess.

[Calliope5431]

Xenocrat wrote:

I don't understand why it's incredible for a kineticist (who needs spell slots to even qualify for Wildspell dedication). The auto force damage is very small and is just compensation if you have no other options because of something like mythics resilience shutting down your save effects. You can't cast spells, which is a negative effecting spellcasting, so you can't cast impulses while in this form. Are there good (not a wall) offensive sustained impulses you can activate before you do an Arcane Explosion?

Yeah fair. I forgot they counted SOLELY for that reason and was hyped about them not having the manipulate trait. Sigh...

[Ectar]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.

** spoiler omitted **...

You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **

You can also press F to pay respects for:

** spoiler omitted **

I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Could you or someone else expand on "Dragon Gods"? I have a PC heavily invested into draconic deities.

[rainzax]

TheFinish wrote:

rainzax wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.

Are all ikons inclusive of unarmed strikes?

Or just a couple?

=)

Of the Weapon Ikons, Gleaming Blade, Hands of the Wildling and Titan's Breaker can be unarmed attacks. Gleaming Blade has to be slashing, Titan's Breaker has to be Bludgeoning and Hands of Wildling can be any type.

Hands of the Wildling. What does it do? Looks new…

[graystone]

rainzax wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

rainzax wrote:

TheFinish wrote:

Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.

Are all ikons inclusive of unarmed strikes?

Or just a couple?

=)

Of the Weapon Ikons, Gleaming Blade, Hands of the Wildling and Titan's Breaker can be unarmed attacks. Gleaming Blade has to be slashing, Titan's Breaker has to be Bludgeoning and Hands of Wildling can be any type.

Hands of the Wildling. What does it do? Looks new…

Base does 1 spirit splash damage per weapon die, while transcendence does a cone of weapon damage.

[Xenocrat]

rainzax wrote:

Hands of the Wildling. What does it do? Looks new…

Unarmed strike ikon. Adds 1 splash damage per weapon die (you're immune, allies are not), transcend does a 15' cone basic reflex against your weapon strike damage. It's not great unless you have a really strong unarmed attack, plan to miss against things with weaknesses, or fight surrounded by lots of things with weaknesses.

[rainzax]

Like E. Honda's hundred hand slap!

Thanks gang.

=)

[PossibleCabbage]

I genuinely have trouble visualizing how your unarmed attack ikon makes you do splash damage.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I genuinely have trouble visualizing how your unarmed attack ikon makes you do splash damage.

It's spirit damage, so i don't have any problem imagining a wave of spirit energy doing damage.

[Calliope5431]

Zoken44 wrote:

What's the Capstone on the broken Chain?

It has two.

One is a three-action "undo this event as per a success (but not a critical success) on a Wish ritual." It's stated that "This will bring serious consequences back to haunt you some day. Altering the rhythm of causality is likely to draw the attention of certain aeons. Fey norns won’t be too happy with you fraying their precious threads of fate either."

The other is straightforward immortality-via-leadership. When you would be killed, you instead drop to 1, become invisible and incorporeal, and become immune to all damage. You can only take mental actions, but you gain 2 extra reactions and you can Aid via telepathic advice alone. Before an hour passes you must fuse with a loyal follower. You keep your level but work with the GM to rebuild your PC from the ground up (but you keep all your previous equipment, which sounds like an absolute mess). If you don't fuse with a follower you die.

[PossibleCabbage]

graystone wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I genuinely have trouble visualizing how your unarmed attack ikon makes you do splash damage.

It's spirit damage, so i don't have any problem imagining a wave of spirit energy doing damage.

But one of your epithets can change it into a bunch of other different kinds of damage (as can the level 1 feat.) So is it just "when you punch people with your magic fists, fire goes everywhere?"

Like it's easier for me to visualize why "your fists do fire damage" than "your fists do *splash* fire damage".

[NoxiousMiasma]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

But one of your epithets can change it into a bunch of other different kinds of damage (as can the level 1 feat.) So is it just "when you punch people with your magic fists, fire goes everywhere?"

Like it's easier for me to visualize why "your fists do fire damage" than "your fists do *splash* fire damage".

I guess maybe once you punch (/bite/claw/gore) someone, they get limned in clinging flames? It's definitely a bit weird without having regular, non-persistent fire damage, but you could flavour it as the unarmed attack is on fire, but doesn't burn you or things you touch, *until you let go*

[GameDesignerDM]

I play a lot of Exalted and there's a lot of like "your Essence explodes outward, dealing X damage" or whatever, and to me, this is sort of the same thing - your spark just makes the damage erupt and hit people in a small explosion or whatever.

Or like how Thor will hit someone and lightning just clowns on the two nearest enemies.

[Dubious Scholar]

Regular old monks can punch so hard it hits everyone in a 60' cone. A demigod's punches hitting hard enough the person next to the target is bruised a bit is nothing.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Like it's easier for me to visualize why "your fists do fire damage" than "your fists do *splash* fire damage".

It's like a torch in that the fire damage is an extra added damage: You hit with your fist and it explodes energy. I mean how do you explain an Inventors Explode? That, but god magic powered.

[Mammoth Daddy]

Perpdepog wrote:

pixierose wrote:

BotBrain wrote:

Am I the only one that thinks a lot of these God V God fights indicated seem very ... random? I can't see what a lot of them would be fighting over in the first place.

A question for Divine Mysteries, perhaps.

From what I have read from the book, 3 major things are happening.

1) Gorums death has caused three potential resources to fall across the Universe. This mainly is what mortals are dealing with but I imagine a lot of the deities themselves are either doing it gain power or prevent others more dangerous foes from gaining power.

2) Gorums death is causing a bunch of supernatural things to occur, mixing with or activating ancient relics. pre-existing phenomenon etc. Gods go to investigate these things, discover something or try to take advantage of said thing and others come to fight them. Sometimes while they are not directly opposed to each other, the nature of their solutions leads to them disagreeing and unable to settle things they fight for what they believe to be right.

3) From my understanding there appears to be both the natural reaction to stress causing people to behave more aggressive or irrationally, but there may also be a supernatural element to it. An enhanced desire or willingness to fight/battle. Cooler heads are not prevailing in these times as one might say.

I think the case for their being some supernatural or metaphysical aspect to all the conflict makes sense. Assuming that the way deities work isn't totally misrepresented in The Godsrain Prophecies, there are multiple instances of a god's death leading to their particular sphere of influence going haywire. Urgathoa's death leading to undead becoming more likely to arise, Nethys' destruction leading to magic spiraling out of control and working unevenly, stuff like that.

If we assume that is an actual function of how gods work, they act as a locus or balancing point for a fundamental force or concept, then Gorum's death leading to a net increase in...

Yes but the fact that Gorum’s death has also led to other gods dying means we should expect to see similar wonky consequences for these secondary deaths, which may or may not cascade into outcomes for which no one can neatly distinguish as the direct result of any singular death except possibly Gorum’s. (Which was in turn likely the effect of other multi-causal factors- so maybe not)

Hope they address this.

[The Raven Black]

Gisher wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

VerBeeker wrote:

*stares in growing shock and horror at learning a parasite was living inside of Gorum and has a name I recognize*

What's it called?

Potential Spoiler

Huh. So my speculation back in April didn't entirely miss the mark, after all.

Gisher — April 17, 2024 wrote:

What if the hole in Gorum's armor wasn't caused by an attack from without but rather was caused by something hatching from inside him? ;)

There was something awful growing in that armor.

Indeed. I knew there was something odd with the dark mist coming out of Gorum's armor. Never thought it would be that though.

I am sure Szuriel would love to nurture and care for it and be a positive daemonic influence on it.

**Shivers**

[moosher12]

I apologize if this has already been answered, but this is a rather big thread.

I've heard that mythic destinies can have their mythic point elements removed to be used in a non-mythic game.

How powerful are the mythic destinies for this purpose? Are they suitable for allowance in a non-mythic game where the thematic elements might be allowed but the full mechanics element of mythic would not be, or are they still too powerful to be allowed in a game that does not plan to use Mythic Callings. As in, are they roughly a side grade versus an equal-level class feat? Or would they be objectively better?

I am considering whether or not to allow some mythic destinies to be claimable with class feats and free archetype feats this way, as I've heard from some folks with the book that it should work with free archetype this way. But I wanna make sure they are not so overtuned that a player who opts to not use such feats will not feel like they are getting the short end of the proverbial stick.

[Calliope5431]

moosher12 wrote:

I apologize if this has already been answered, but this is a rather big thread.

I've heard that mythic destinies can have their mythic point elements removed to be used in a non-mythic game.

How powerful are the mythic destinies for this purpose? Are they suitable for allowance in a non-mythic game where the thematic elements might be allowed but the full mechanics element of mythic would not be, or are they still too powerful to be allowed in a game that does not plan to use Mythic Callings. As in, are they roughly a side grade versus an equal-level class feat? Or would they be objectively better?

I am considering whether or not to allow some mythic destinies to be claimable with class feats and free archetype feats this way, as I've heard from some folks with the book that it should work with free archetype this way. But I wanna make sure they are not so overtuned that a player who opts to not use such feats will not feel like they are getting the short end of the proverbial stick.

Most of them are fairly normal and allowable - however, there are a few things to consider.

The first is whether or not you want to allow immortal PCs. For many GMs, this breaks their setting or their rules. Most mythic destinies have a 20th level feat that makes the player character nigh-unkillable. Hopefully this isn't a violation of forum rules, but here is the full text of one (only one) of these feats:

War of Immortals wrote:

Living Epic Feat 20
Mythic
Prerequisites Eternal Legend Dedication
You are a living legend, a being who cannot be claimed by
death, as death has already passed you. You are beyond
whatever they wish to make you. When you would be killed,
you instead disappear. You reappear anywhere where your
name is spoken in the next week. Your name must be said
in the context of recounting one of your exploits, including
your death. If the person speaking your name is a close ally
(such as another PC), you return to life with only 1 Hit Point.
However, if a stranger speaks your name, you return to life
with full Hit Points and you gain a +1 status bonus to attack
rolls, Perception, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 week.
If no one speaks your name within a week of your death,
your soul enters the River of Souls, and you can be brought
back to life us ing other means.

Whether or not this breaks your game is a matter of taste, but it's certainly not appropriate for everyone's game.

Secondly, several of them are extremely, brokenly strong. Easily the most powerful is Fight Through Oblivion, another level 20 eternal legend feat which in essence renders a PC at 0 hit points still conscious but immune to all damage until they miss with an attack for four consecutive rounds.

That feat makes it virtually impossible to kill a PC with it, short of [Death] effects, disintegration, and similar abilities. Again, you have to decide whether or not to allow it - I personally would allow the former but not the latter, since it's frankly disruptive to combat. But abilities like that are pretty rare - Apocalypse Rider, Archfiend, Ascended Celestial, Beast Lord, Godling, and Wildspell really have nothing objectionably strong in them at all, it's mostly just Broken Chain, Eternal Legend, and Prophesied Monarch that lean towards the overly powerful side of things.

[Xenocrat]

moosher12 wrote:

I apologize if this has already been answered, but this is a rather big thread.

I've heard that mythic destinies can have their mythic point elements removed to be used in a non-mythic game.

How powerful are the mythic destinies for this purpose? Are they suitable for allowance in a non-mythic game where the thematic elements might be allowed but the full mechanics element of mythic would not be, or are they still too powerful to be allowed in a game that does not plan to use Mythic Callings. As in, are they roughly a side grade versus an equal-level class feat? Or would they be objectively better?

I am considering whether or not to allow some mythic destinies to be claimable with class feats and free archetype feats this way, as I've heard from some folks with the book that it should work with free archetype this way. But I wanna make sure they are not so overtuned that a player who opts to not use such feats will not feel like they are getting the short end of the proverbial stick.

Example level 12 dedication feats that don't even have options to spend mythic points:

Eternal Legend lets you choose one of drained, enfeebled, or clumsy condition. If you roll a successful save against an effect that would impose the condition, you get a crit success instead. Additionally, you reduce the condition, if you aquire it, by 1. You can take a single action at any time to change what condition this ability protects you against. (This is great for bloodrager, ignore drained 1 every time your spellcasting tries to inflict it on you.)

Apoloclypse Rider gives you a fully advanced mount who can take a free stride or strike if you don't command it.

Archfiend allows 1/hour to create a 20' zone around you (which then shrinks if you don't sustain it) that is difficult terrain for enemies and inflicts an untyped -1 to their fort saves.

[moosher12]

Calliope5431 wrote:

Most of them are fairly normal and allowable - however, there are a few things to consider.

The first is whether or not you want to allow immortal PCs. For many GMs, this breaks their setting or their rules. Most mythic destinies have a 20th level feat that makes the player character nigh-unkillable. Hopefully this isn't a violation of forum rules, but here is the full text of one (only one) of these feats:

I've come to terms with the harder-to-kill PCs bit after the War of Immortals playtest. As I still plan to allow Animist effective of me attaining a copy of War of Immortals, and I might allow Exemplar in post Godsrain games, or in pre Godsrain games with some thematic conditioning. As far as I know, both have kept their capstone abilities that make them much harder to kill off.

Calliope5431 wrote:

Whether or not this breaks your game is a matter of taste, but it's certainly not appropriate for everyone's game.

Secondly, several of them are extremely, brokenly strong. Easily the most powerful is Fight Through Oblivion, another level 20 eternal legend feat which in essence renders a PC at 0 hit points still conscious but immune to all damage until they miss with an attack for four consecutive rounds.

That feat makes it virtually impossible to kill a PC with it, short of [Death] effects, disintegration, and similar abilities. Again, you have to decide whether or not to allow it - I personally would allow the former but not the latter, since it's frankly disruptive to combat. But abilities like that are pretty rare - Apocalypse Rider, Archfiend, Ascended Celestial, Beast Lord, Godling, and Wildspell really have nothing objectionably strong in them at all, it's mostly just Broken Chain, Eternal Legend, and Prophesied Monarch that lean towards the overly powerful side of things.

Though the second point is what I'd be more concerned with, as it sounds like a concern in a more immediate fight. Fight Through Oblivion seems a bit stronger. So I might have to selectively limit that one. Yeah, that's a good thinking point, I thank you for bringing that up. I thank you. If all I gotta do is prepare a banned feat list, I might be able to allow them after all.

Though if it's Level 20, perhaps I can allow depending on the tone of the game.

Either way, I'll give those three a thorough reading to see if I have to step in and put in any blockers.

Thank you for the input.