BotBrain's page

Avenger is a racket but it seems to work like an archtype in that you have to take Avenger dedication and then 2 more feats. The real thing is if I have fun with it or not.

Aye it's a class archtype. They're a middle ground between an archtype and a subclass.

Finally got my hands on war of immortals and I want to know more about these giants roaming around. I do detect a hint of inspiration from shadow of the collosus and I simply must know more.

It does beg the question why they haven't reprinted them post-remaster though...

Is it really that big of a mine field to reimagine the OGL dragons?

Because it's been a year and a half, give or take. There's been an emphasis on the new dragons in MC1, because they're, well new, and slapping an extra 10 or so dragons in the book would bloat. it.

Since then, I can't think of a single book where you'd print them. It's not a "minefield"

I recall mention of a Rune Dragon in one of the new Pactbinder, sounds like a potential new Dragon

Oh yeah, they're some kind of academic dragon. If only my supervisor was a dragon...

More dragons are always welcome imo. Now that paizo have fully broken away from the chromatic/metallic split, I am very excited to see what we get.

An interesting question- would Moradin be the same as Torag in this campaign?

Obviously, converting every single deity that might be worshiped in this campaign is daunting. I'm not even sure where to begin.

If I were you - i'd only convert what I need. So if a player wants to worship Moradin, convert him. If none of them do, and you don't want to include Moradin worshippers, don't bother.

I mean, would it be hard to just import alignment from unrevised 2e?

Depends how much you want it to do.

If your primary concern is just the effect planes have on other alignments, then you can just have players pick their alignment and give it no mechanical weight outside of any interaactions with the planes.

19?! But I want it now!
Better find some kind of time vortex.

Yeah even if we don't get an ancestry for cyclopses, it's not unprecidented that a heritage gets printed down the line that might as well be its own ancestry. Dokkaebi goblin is probably the best example.

Ditto on the trip/grab focus. I've seen it done before and it's great. The duo i saw was a gunslinger/monk, but anyone who wants to be in melee can do it.

Hm, well I can imagine they'd certainly appreciate a Fear Gem.. Even if your party loves to demoralise, this doesn't count as a demoralise, so you can keep the enemy's AC low for them to hit better.

What other classes are your party members? It would help narrow down some good choices.

You could possibly consider grandmother spider as a deity, if you still want to try this.

She's a god, yes. But she was also mistreated by the gods and not compensated for her work as their weaver of fate. She specifically forbids abuses of power, and encourages independent thought.

While not explicitly stated, it would not be hard to assume this applies to her too, making her less of a divine boss, and more of a divine mentor, or guiding figure, who grants divine power not with the expectation of servitude, but with the idea that followers use it to secure theirs and other's indpendence.

If the idea of divine servitude is upsetting for you, but you want to play a cleric, this is one possible angle.

Obviously - I don't know you - so if this wouldn't work for you, that's fine. I just wanted to give my two cents. :)

There will also be a Runelord-related Mythic Destiny. Suitable for characters who want to become Runelords, or who might be reincarnated Runelords or possessed by dead ones.

Oooh. I'm glad to see Paizo making good on the promise to make more mythic destinies.

Yeah! I was imagining Kung-Fu Panda if Po were a child.

I would love the NPC to be a tanuki. Imagine the party having to babysit this mischievous little fella who needs to be taught the way of proper leadership, but is more interested in gathering shinies and tying your shoes together.

Hmm... do you think I could sneak into Paizo HQ and write this for them without them noticing

Wait, you don't eat soap?

Only the scented kinds. I'm not insane.

I mean that is presumably why it's uncommon, because it's something that could be disruptive in certain campaigns.

Ominous.

Cayden thinks Grandmother spider unbalancing Abadar's scales was hilarious, but he's too scared of Abadar to mention it.

For what it's worth given enough time I would let my players make Mesa Verde. But then my campaigns are a lot of plodding around the wilderness at the moment so it won't matter too much.

Ooh or Petra, that's also another beautiful example.

It would need to come with some pretty generous DM fiat. I love the idea, but it's one of those things where you need to expect the DM to go "no, sorry" and just roll with it.

I think the easiest way to get around crit/precision immunity is to just say in combat you need to have some kind of semi-solid form whcih means you can have your "head" knocked in or something. You could still give crit/precision resistance, which would certainly be unique.

Fleshwarping producing sentient oozes, an alchemist's experiment gone wrong/very right, the WoI leads to an ooze god showing up or gaining prominence.

It would be dead easy.

Or make them aliens and backport them from SF2e.

If I were rewriting player core, i'd also have a list of skills that are good ideas for a given class, alongside the whole "You might, others might" section.

For example, for fighter it'd say "You might train in intimidation to demoralise your foes, weakening their defences more, or focus on athletics to trip and shove your opponents".

I mean unless there's one I'm missing* you can tell by the name and description alone. A drakeheart elixr is clearly not a "food".

It should have a trait imo, but really it's not hard to work out.

*WRT respect to capcasin tonic it's not written as a food, unless you really want to drill into the fact it's called a tonic. And in that case, just ask your GM.

I can help with explaining the rules in a broad sense during the session (i.e., this is how hazards work, this is what this condition does, etc.), but to the Bard player who says "all my spells suck" because they haven't cracked the spine of a Player Core book or won't delve into Archives of Nethys, there's not much I will do because it takes personal incentive to play the game. I think people coming from 5e just readily expect some type of DND Beyond-like service that is attached to every TTRPG.

God tell me about it. I once had to be a bit nasty and give a player a "Start reading what your character does, and what your feats mean, or you'll need to find another group" warning. I feel horrid doing it, especially since we're friends outside the game, but at some point you're just being disrespected because you're putting all this effort in and someone doesn't want to read a couple paragraphs.

If you're level 1, the free archetype is irrelevant unless you want to give them dedication at 1 instead of 2.

It's kind of weird to see people pretending we didn't have literal years of "casters are worthless" discourse predicated along the OP's point of issues with low level play and a lack of experience with the system. Discourse that has somewhat faded as people have gained more knowledge about the system and experienced the game at a wider variety of levels.

Some of the posters in this very thread have been involved in those debates, and in fact have pointed to the way casters mature as they level up in previous discussions.

I think the OP has a reasonable point: Level 1 Pathfinder players wildly differently than the game does at pretty much any other breakpoint. Even level 2 changes a lot of assumptions about the game and by level 5 and up you're in an entirely different world.

Yet lots of new players have washed out because of those very specific low level experiences, or had their entire view of the game defined by them.

We've had each of those discussions so many times it's kind of wild to me to see people arguing that it's not true. Is it just that it's framed as a criticism of the system and people are having a kneejerk reaction to it?

Who's aruging that people don't say casters suck?

I would question the idea that (early) rouge sucks but I don't want to get too off-topic immediately.

IMO the biggest problems I've had with the teaching the system has been, and I'm not even being hyperbolic with word choices here, deprogramming habits from DnD 5e.
Even if players read the rules or the truncated versions I give them, I don't think the books do enough to stress the idea that skill actions are worthwhile, and standing around trying to land 3 hits every round will get you killed.
It's not as bad now I know to really stress it to players, but my first campaign was a trainwreck for several sessions as players just didn't do anything except 2/3 attack turns.

Also, even at early levels, debuffs are helpful. If, as you say, early levels are all about crits, debuffs and buffed players have a much higher chance of landing that crit. It's why demoralise can be great.

I've never seen a player come away from early levels and decide that it's not worth debuffing enemies. I've seen them come away not realising they can do it with things that aren't spells, which goes into my point above.

And again, never seen one come away and decide that casters "suck" either. Weaker than they'd like them to be? Sure. Especially if they really wanted to use spell attack rolls. But never seen someone decide they're all worthless.

BotBrain wrote:

Most of the reprints tend to be taking things from adventure paths or lost omens books, and then putting them into "mainline" products. For example, weapons that appear in an adventure path showing up in treasure vault.

To my knowledge, we are yet to see reprints from one "mainline" book end up in another.* Even ROE didn't reprint the elemental spells sectiom, it just added to what was in SOM.

*Remastered versions of books excluded.

Yes, but they are usually small pieces of content that have been revised, as is the case with Energy Mutagen and Stone Body Mutagen which lost their uncommon trait and received adjustments.

In addition, this is done much more with adventure content than with Lost Omens; in fact, I don't remember any Lost Omens rules being reprinted for the books in PF2e, because the rules printed in the adventures are much less tested and balanced (although they hardly ever break anything) than those released in Lost Omens and rulebooks.

A few things like bladed scarf or polytool made the jump from gods and magic to treasure vault.

Most of the reprints tend to be taking things from adventure paths or lost omens books, and then putting them into "mainline" products. For example, weapons that appear in an adventure path showing up in treasure vault.

To my knowledge, we are yet to see reprints from one "mainline" book end up in another.* Even ROE didn't reprint the elemental spells sectiom, it just added to what was in SOM.

*Remastered versions of books excluded.

They could certainly stuff most of the class content of Secrets of Magic, Dark Archive and Book of the Dead into a single 'Complete Mage' style book (at least, the ones not already remastered, I'm expecting Impossible to eat a lot of BotD content) - certainly, SoM and BotD both need it about equally, what with the heavy reliance on schools of magic they had (OK, just the one for BotD, but you know what I mean). Doing so would likely be a not-insignificant endeavour of rejiggling the pages to work, though. The effort would on par with a new book, which means it'd need to sell like a new book to be worth it.

They could also just remaster DA separately, it needs the least change and can be sold like GnG, and instead poach many other archetypes made defunct by the spell school changes to fill the space - Captivator stands out, but many AP specific archetypes could be borrowed like Eldritch Researcher/Spirit Hunter from AV. Then add some new archetypes to replicate the old schools that's missing and maybe there's enough content to sell a new book?

I am personally hoping for "impossible" to eat up some of the BOTD content for the sole fact that I want the reanimator feats to officially be usable on Necromancer, without taking the dedication. Most of them won't even work with thralls I just really like necromancer's visage.

My understanding is that remasters are being done on an "as needed" basis, taking the place of what has been a regular reprint.

How is a flourish not a "thing you can do normally"? You can do it, almost whenever you want. You can't just use it every turn, and frankly, you shouldn't be trying to only attack every action anyway.

Ryangwy wrote:

Seriously, do you even play the fighter?

The more we talk about it, the less I'm not too keen on it...

I found this floating around:

Quote:

I want to play a Fighter that...

- can be shoot stuff -> Here's the Gunslinger
- can attack furiously -> Here's the Barbarian
- can hunt and track prey -> Here's the Ranger
- can fight with my fists -> Here's the Monk
- can focus on light weapons -> Here's the Swashbuckler
- can command -> Here's the Commander
- can focus on defense -> Here's the Guardian
- can fight for the Church -> Here's the Champion
- can cast spells -> Here's the Magus, Warpriest Cleric and Battle Oracle
- can use magic items -> Here's the Thaumatheurge
- can make my own weapons -> Here's the Inventor
- can fight for the Gods -> Here's the Examplar

This isn't like picking the sorcerer over the wizard, it's literally "trading generic features" for something unique.

Rage, Hunter's Edges, Ways, Epithets, Styles and other similar abilities are not feats or "bonuses"; they're class features. If those are supposed to be as good as Combat Flexibility, there's a problem, because it doesn't match.

I would rather be LESS flexible and insteat be MORE specialized in one weapon group and have this "flexibility" be 4 or 5 special abilities per weapon groups that only the Fighter can access, exactly like Advanced Weapon Training.

Wait so do you want the fighter to be flexible or not? One minute you're lamenting that fighter doesn't have access to a wider array of options and the next you're asking for feats that would by nature force a fighter down a narrower path.

And again, for what I'm going to make the last time:
The fighter DOES have the ability to specalise in a type of weapon. That's what the feats do. That's why combat flexability exists, to give fighter versatile access to more feats. It's weaker because fighter derives incredible power from its feats, much more so than other classes.

Why does that matter? You're asking for ways to do interesting and creative things with your weapons, and there's feats for that. There's a lot of feats for that.

BigHatMarisa wrote:

Please note that I'm not trying to disparage you, JiCi. I understand that the Fighter doesn't seem to have any sort of flair or oomph that you enjoy that makes it fulfill the fantasy you have, and that's something that - while I disagree - is a fair opinion to have.

However, I do think that arguing that Fighter doesn't have anything that fulfills a "weapon master" niche isn't a fair take given that most of its class feature and feat budget go into allowing you to effectively make a Build-a-Bear War Machine.

Ok... In P1E, I was thrilled to get the Weapon master Handbook and how they FINALLY gave Fighters more content, mostly to trade weapon/armor training for some really cool features. In P2E however, I feel like this aspect is missing.

I'll gladly take the Soldier's fighting styles from Starfinder and give and adapt them to the Fighter and only the Fighter.

Dude, even the Fighter archetype is a joke. Every other class gives you a class feature, but that one give you the equivalent of Weapon Proficiency one level later.

Gunslinger gives you a skill, and profiencies, just like fighter.

The idea that fighter is alone in getting functionally nothing from is dedication is not true.

Also the fighter does have "fighting styles" - that's what its feats are for, and it get more than any other comparable class thanks to combat verstality.

Also I really don't know how good an argument "but the mythic rules let you do it" is, when the number one problem people have with the mythic rules is the uneven way they apply to classes.

if they add a stinky race I can finally play my teenage self

An alchemist class that isn't entirely RNG based.

No really, that's the catalyst.

If they'd have me, I'd chill in a leshy village for the rest of my life.

BotBrain wrote:

Printing a spread of underwater heritages could work too. Aquatic Elf, Grindylows, Water Kobolds, Dragur skeleton and more i'm no doubt overlooking.

Except "water kobolds", all of these exist in canon, and it's not hard to imagine a clutch of kobolds raised in the ocean by a kraken, merfolk tribe, or what have you.

They'd all probably be similar where it's 25ft, water breathing, slow land speed, and then some gimmick so they're not all literally the same heritage.

Tunnelflood Kobold already exists, we just need a way for it to grab some gills to go with the swim speed. And I suggested all of those other ones (except Dragur. What's a dragur?) upthread.

Drowned skeletons. They're in Beastiary 2 or 3, I can't recall. And I must have missed your post. Great minds think alike!

Many people who play PF2 do so because they dislike how unbalanced 5e is.
Even if 90% of PF2's players play PF2 because they don't like how unbalanced D&D is that's a drop in the bucket next to all the people who play D&D.

Who cares?

No seriously - why does this matter? If people want to play DnD they can go do that, and if people get annoyed at the way DnD 5e is set up, they can find something else. What does the relative popularity matter?

Outside of those idiots on reddit who waste their time trying to debate 5e players into playing pathfinder, most pathfinder players aren't trying to erase 5e from existance.

Aquatic Adventures, despite the name, isn't actually an adventure book - it's in the vein of stuff like Guns & Gears or Howl of the Wild, more of a big book of lore (did you know that the Embaral Ocean has an El Niño and La Niña system? I really hope they do something with that), aquatic player options, and monsters. So a 2e version, with a remastered Undine, some of the 1e aquatic ancestries updated, and some specialised archetypes, spellshapes and magic stuff for being underwater is definitely a good option.

And, while I would prefer that we get a Wet Stuff book before getting an underwater AP, but I don't think the situation is as dire as you're suggesting. Put "strongly recommended: Athamaru, Azarketi, Merfolk. Recommended: Seaweed Leshy, Undine, Swimming Awakened Animal" in the Player's Guide, and give everyone with Athletics Underwater Marauder for free and you're most of the way to making it work.

Printing a spread of underwater heritages could work too. Aquatic Elf, Grindylows, Water Kobolds, Dragur skeleton and more i'm no doubt overlooking.

Except "water kobolds", all of these exist in canon, and it's not hard to imagine a clutch of kobolds raised in the ocean by a kraken, merfolk tribe, or what have you.

They'd all probably be similar where it's 25ft, water breathing, slow land speed, and then some gimmick so they're not all literally the same heritage.

You know, considering how good Rival Academies is...

I think I'd like to see a martial equivalent.

Something adding a bit more lore to the Aldori Swordschools, Houses of Perfection, gladiator schools, and other places where those interested in the fighting arts go to seek training.

Feels like it could be interesting, considering Battlecry is coming soon.

Honestly, that could be battlecry, or at least part of it. The major sourcebooks also tend to put a bunch of lore details in.

Eh. Perhaps I'm not the best judge because I was hoping for proper duel-wielding support at long last, but I don't see the appeal. I guess picking up and hitting people with random stuff is a fun idea, but the mechanics don't really sell it for me.

Jenny Jarzabski wrote:

TheMartyr781 wrote:

"what happened to those corporate dark elves that lived on Apostae."

Considering that the Drow have been retconned in Pathfinder, it wouldn't surprise me if the same is happening here. That will be disappointing if true.

Don't worry, that is not the plan! ^_^

Did the orc and half-orc laborers develop class consciousness and overthrow their parasitic masters in a glorious revolution?

I almost hope this isn't the case because that's a cracking adventure hook if I've ever heard one.

BotBrain wrote:

See I think you'd make more money selling the wands to nobles, letting them do all the gold stuff, then coming back to you. No need to bother doing it yourself, and you make more.

Become the MLM wizard!

Not something I've seen personally, but at my Uni's DnD club there was a story of a party that started a pyramid scheme that got so out of hand a demon lord signed up.