Okay Paizo - after rage of elements..

[Verzen]

..it's time to ignore any new classes and to come out with the Advanced Class guide which will introduce 3-4 new specialty options for classes that have them "such as new instincts, new invention types, new elements, new bloodlines, new wizard schools, new rackets etc" and a ton more class feats for every single class along with new class archetypes. Regular archetypes and new classes can take a break.

This would be the perfect book to add in synthesis summoner along with other class archetypes and magic types, such as blood magic, that have trouble finding a themed book.

Void kineticist could also make an appearance. This book would be 90% player options. No fluff. That way we could fill a good backlog of updates for various classes.

Other class archetypes could be...

Mutagenic Alchemist where they give up most of their alchemy except mutagens and each mutagen is twice as effective with a 12th level feat that makes them 3 times as effective for one turn.

Synthesis summoner where they give up spellcasting to gain Eidolon buffs to AC, attack, damage, as well as new martial feats specific to synthesis

Blood magic where they must harm themselves to cast spells. They deal 1d4 damage to themselves to increase to DC by 1 or 1d10 dmg to increase the DC by 2. Or the same with spell attack rolls.

Eidolon Master where the Summoner gives up spellcasting for unique focus spells and a beefed up Eidolon.

A class archetype that gives up spellcasting, gives the Summoner martial attack, decouples them from sharing MAP, and gives access to medium armor for those who want more of a "dragon rider" class and feel.

If it's not already in rage of elements, kinetic knight that gives up ranged for more HP/close ranged martial attack shield block, and heavy armor.

This archetype is perhaps one of the most popular kineticist archetypes in existence.

Wizards can get spellslinger class archetype allowing them to trade spells for temporary runes on a gun that they gain martial proficiency with.

And much much more!

It's time to flesh out the classes that already exist!

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

[aobst128]

An APG 2 doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

[Lollerabe]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

It comes off as a bit rude to summarize his request as "bloat for the sake of bloat".

How is it bloat ? Many people want more options for current content. And besides - many of the class archetypes mentioned has been requested multiple times as well.

[PossibleCabbage]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

I'm not convinced that top level choices meaningfully contribute to bloat. Which is probably why we're going to continue to see new classes and ancestries, instead of options to significantly alter existing classes and ancestries.

Like you show up saying "I want to hit people with an axe and wear heavy armor" or "I want to shoot lightning out of my fingers" and that idea immediately rules out over half the classes.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

Lollerabe wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

It comes off as a bit rude to summarize his request as "bloat for the sake of bloat".

How is it bloat ? Many people want more options for current content. And besides - many of the class archetypes mentioned has been requested multiple times as well.

Because among my players, for every 1 "I wish they printed Bloodrager/Inquisitor/Synthesist Summoner, how about APG2 soon?" person, there are 4 "Geez, why are there so many X to choose from?" people. Granted, PF2 fares much better than PF1 did in this regard, but you must understand that vocal forum veterans that are highly invested in what is in the system are like a very small slice of the actual playerbase.

The fact that RoE has only 1 class seems to be a good sign that Paizo is slowing down with crunch, and good for them doing so.

[Unicore]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Lollerabe wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

It comes off as a bit rude to summarize his request as "bloat for the sake of bloat".

How is it bloat ? Many people want more options for current content. And besides - many of the class archetypes mentioned has been requested multiple times as well.

Because among my players, for every 1 "I wish they printed Bloodrager/Inquisitor/Synthesist Summoner, how about APG2 soon?" person, there are 4 "Geez, why are there so many X to choose from?" people. Granted, PF2 fares much better than PF1 did in this regard, but you must understand that vocal forum veterans that are highly invested in what is in the system are like a very small slice of the actual playerbase.

The fact that RoE has only 1 class seems to be a good sign that Paizo is slowing down with crunch, and good for them doing so.

The inclusion of tables in adventure path player's guide is both a strong indicator that this is true (that players need guidance that is specific to the adventure they are playing in), but also that the decision paralysis can be mitigated by GMs and adventure writers providing guidance that is aware of the options available.

[Lollerabe]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Lollerabe wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

It comes off as a bit rude to summarize his request as "bloat for the sake of bloat".

How is it bloat ? Many people want more options for current content. And besides - many of the class archetypes mentioned has been requested multiple times as well.

Because among my players, for every 1 "I wish they printed Bloodrager/Inquisitor/Synthesist Summoner, how about APG2 soon?" person, there are 4 "Geez, why are there so many X to choose from?" people. Granted, PF2 fares much better than PF1 did in this regard, but you must understand that vocal forum veterans that are highly invested in what is in the system are like a very small slice of the actual playerbase.

The fact that RoE has only 1 class seems to be a good sign that Paizo is slowing down with crunch, and good for them doing so.

Fair enough. I just think bloat is a pretty loaded term. It usually refers to something that isn't needed or dosent add value, in gaming at least.

And again, I can't get mad at Paizo for providing their community with what they want.
I'm fairly sure there's at least 3 more classes that are more wanted than an APG2.

However I dont think that it invalidates the fact that some people would love exactly that.

[Perpdepog]

Unicore wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Lollerabe wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

No, we don't need bloat for sake of bloat. That killed PF1 and Paizo is clearly not interested in crunch disassociated from Golarion lore.

It comes off as a bit rude to summarize his request as "bloat for the sake of bloat".

How is it bloat ? Many people want more options for current content. And besides - many of the class archetypes mentioned has been requested multiple times as well.

Because among my players, for every 1 "I wish they printed Bloodrager/Inquisitor/Synthesist Summoner, how about APG2 soon?" person, there are 4 "Geez, why are there so many X to choose from?" people. Granted, PF2 fares much better than PF1 did in this regard, but you must understand that vocal forum veterans that are highly invested in what is in the system are like a very small slice of the actual playerbase.

The fact that RoE has only 1 class seems to be a good sign that Paizo is slowing down with crunch, and good for them doing so.

The inclusion of tables in adventure path player's guide is both a strong indicator that this is true (that players need guidance that is specific to the adventure they are playing in), but also that the decision paralysis can be mitigated by GMs and adventure writers providing guidance that is aware of the options available.

I always assumed that's what the sample builds were for. I think that if a book like this existed peppering some more sample builds throughout would go a fair way to mitigating the analysis paralysis and more clearly signpost what feats fit into which typical builds.

[keftiu]

Paizo devs have repeatedly asked folks to stop using “fluff,” as it’s a term that dismisses the hard work they do writing setting material.

I would not be interested in this book nearly as much as I would be for other things. There isn’t a subclass or feat in the world that would make me happier than a full Inquisitor class, and I’m slowly taking up the torch to feel similarly about the Shaman. A book that was only 10% lore is a book I’m almost certainly not buying.

[Amaya/Polaris]

I believe they've also said that the books don't really sell if they're just mechanics. All of the mechanics are freely available on Archives of Nethys, after all. :v And releasing this theoretical stuff in purely non-book format is a bad idea right now for various reasons.

Books adding to old classes has happened a few times in piecemeal fashion. A more dedicated one could maybe happen with a good enough narrative/lore basis. But a themeless book just isn't likely.

[Tweezer]

Aside from the fact that I think OP's suggestions (higher DCs and better attack bonuses) doesn't really fit the design philosophy of 2e, I can't help but comment on the wanting "more player options, less lore"

Not because I don't understand where it's coming from.

I get wanting more cool toys for character creation, but I also think it's important to remember that "fluff" (Lore and monsters) is the thing that's going to make games happen.

For my part, I would orefer if the post RoE release was all lore and monsters and provided 0% player options.

[WWHsmackdown]

I'm good with the current model. Lore, player options, and dm tools all in one book ensures the most sales from all the different participants of the table and the thematic nature helps enable focus and creativity with the design team by way of clearer direction. Outside all that, I like the fact that it makes for a more interesting read.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

keftiu wrote:

Paizo devs have repeatedly asked folks to stop using “fluff,” as it’s a term that dismisses the hard work they do writing setting material.

Yeah, this, if you're starting your far-winded high C request with using the language the devs have asked not to be used, you're kind of self-owning yourself quite hard.

[keftiu]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Paizo devs have repeatedly asked folks to stop using “fluff,” as it’s a term that dismisses the hard work they do writing setting material.

Yeah, this, if you're starting your far-winded high C request with using the language the devs have asked not to be used, you're kind of self-owning yourself quite hard.

This thread is ultimately "I want this!" mixed with a little bit of "my opinions are the objective right path for the game." The choice of terminology is just the cherry on top.

[Themetricsystem]

I concur with Verzen wholeheartedly, adding more classes is FAR worse "bloat" than simply supporting what you already made with new and interesting options and it takes up WAY less wordcount and space on a page.

[Squiggit]

Paizo's expressed an unwilligness to publish 'generic' books in the future, so I think that's off the table.

I don't think the problem is even necessarily content either. Yes, current Paizo books are very lore heavy, but Paizo isn't shortchanging in terms of the raw number of options.

According to AoN, there are over two hundred feats in the Dark Archive. Guns and Gears had a similar number. Secrets of Magic wasn't that far behind. Even Book of the Dead, which was as much a bestiary as anything else, had over a hundred feats in it. Volume is clearly not the issue here. I don't think it would be nearly as destructive as some people are suggesting to spread some of those options around to other classes.

Regarding the concerns about Bloat. I totally get it, bloat can be a genuine problem, but... PF2 has well over a hundred archetypes now. We'll probably hit two hundred before long if Paizo keeps going the way it's going.

My level 2 thaumaturge I'm making for a game has 89 class feats she qualifies for between in-class options and dedications. I LOVE rules heavy, crunchy games, and even I feel kind of overwhelmed trying to parse that list.

Like, I'm sorry, but compared to that, giving the Investigator a 5th metholodogy or coming up with a new Summoner eidolon kind of feels like peanuts if we're genuinely concerned about bloat.

[Verzen]

Themetricsystem wrote:

I concur with Verzen wholeheartedly, adding more classes is FAR worse "bloat" than simply supporting what you already made with new and interesting options and it takes up WAY less wordcount and space on a page.

Exactly.

[Verzen]

Squiggit wrote:

Paizo's expressed an unwilligness to publish 'generic' books in the future, so I think that's off the table.

I don't think the problem is even necessarily content either. Yes, current Paizo books are very lore heavy, but Paizo isn't shortchanging in terms of the raw number of options.

According to AoN, there are over two hundred feats in the Dark Archive. Guns and Gears had a similar number. Secrets of Magic wasn't that far behind. Even Book of the Dead, which was as much a bestiary as anything else, had over a hundred feats in it. Volume is clearly not the issue here. I don't think it would be nearly as destructive as some people are suggesting to spread some of those options around to other classes.

Regarding the concerns about Bloat. I totally get it, bloat can be a genuine problem, but... PF2 has well over a hundred archetypes now. We'll probably hit two hundred before long if Paizo keeps going the way it's going.

My level 2 thaumaturge I'm making for a game has 89 class feats she qualifies for between in-class options and dedications. I LOVE rules heavy, crunchy games, and even I feel kind of overwhelmed trying to parse that list.

Like, I'm sorry, but compared to that, giving the Investigator a 5th metholodogy or coming up with a new Summoner eidolon kind of feels like peanuts if we're genuinely concerned about bloat.

I'm not entirely sure counting whole archetypes as X feats is appropriate.

You can't say, well, they added zombie which means they added 10 new feats. Those archetypes must be counted as a package. Not individually.

So we shouldn't claim they added 200 feats.

Furthermore, adding psychic and Therm added a ton of feats, too. But we shouldn't play it off as them adding these feats as if it were just freely available.

Again. It's a package and should count as a package.

[Squiggit]

That's actually sort of my point. Dark Archive has 200something feats, most of which aren't going to be relevant for any individual character.

But what I'm talking about when calling out the number is just in terms of book space and page count. The fifteen feats in Zombie Dedication aren't relevant if you aren't a zombie, but it's still fifteen feats worth of book space.

There's a big tug of war between "lore-focused book" and "crunch-focused book" but a new book could have the exact same amount of lore/setting/adventure material as Dark Archive and still get away with printing 10 new feats for every class in the game (and have room left over even).

Whether or not that's realistic with Paizo's own goals re: new classes, archetypes, and other material is another point entirely, but the point I'm trying to get at is that new material for old classes and books with satisfying amounts of lore don't have to be mutually exclusive.

[aobst128]

Treasure vault sounds like it'll be a "generic" book. Not exactly what we're talking about but it'll add stuff that hypothetically could support any and all classes. And fix some of the future proofing they added hopefully.

[Roadlocator]

If I may throw in an idea, of the first edition classes (full 20 level classes, not prestige classes, just to be clear) those that currently do not have a second edition analog are: Bloodrager-barring multiclassing and a couple instincts that can fake it well enough, Inquisitor-which was largely based on teamwork feats which don't really exist in 2e and would have trouble doing so and is otherwise mostly just a cleric, Mesmerist-but psychic can cover that if you squint, Samurai-which feels like an archetype waiting to happen, and Shifter.

For clarity-Cavalier and Medium exist as archetypes, Hunter is just a ranger who invested really hard into their companion, Shaman is one of the primal witches, and Slayer is a rogue/ranger mash up.

All that is to say that I personally feel as though Paizo's current plan is to finish up establishing all the base classes the want to first, primarily by translating necessary classes from first, only adding things like Inventor to fill gaps. Then they can expand to some of the options yet to be covered, to avoid one of the big issues a class based rule set can have, namely early classes getting a ton of support, and later classes never being able to catch up. This also helps to mitigate the chances of future classes/archetypes/paths/whatever from stepping on each other's toes, I recall during the intial reveal period of 2e the writers talking about how they wanted to focus on each classes's "identity". Once they have that all established then they can go in any direction they feel they want to.

Despite being almost three years old 2e is still a relatively new system, 10 rulebooks, of which three are bestiaries, one is the gm's guide, and one is the corebook, and GnG, BotD, DA, SoM all cover a comparatively small chunk of fantasy staples and 11 setting books, which tend to be more lore heavy. Which is to say the space they have had for new rules content has been tight.

All this is to say, 2e is still being established, and has an eye towards future proofing, but I feel like the era of new class after new class is starting to wrap up, and I generally agree with the strategy of setting out the basics there before putting out any major support for any of them.

[Charlie Brooks]

I dunno...I really like the current style of the books. During the life of this game, I will probably use ten percent or less of the full range of options, but the flavor focus on the books from Secrets of Magic on has made each one well worth the purchase. Even the upcoming treasure book seems like it will probably be an entertaining read.

I'm sure that those with access to the company's accounting know what sells better, but if I could cast a vote I would say more of what they're doing.

[aobst128]

The flavor is always good and I don't think it bogs down mechanical additions. The issue is more like new stuff vs support for old stuff.

[Ezekieru]

Charlie Brooks wrote:

I dunno...I really like the current style of the books. During the life of this game, I will probably use ten percent or less of the full range of options, but the flavor focus on the books from Secrets of Magic on has made each one well worth the purchase. Even the upcoming treasure book seems like it will probably be an entertaining read.

I'm sure that those with access to the company's accounting know what sells better, but if I could cast a vote I would say more of what they're doing.

Oh, for sure! The amount of world-building and GM ideas Paizo has given us has been way more interesting than a standard reference book. It'll be an interesting read for years to come.

But I don't think the prospect of a "APG 2" would be impossible... so long as there's an interesting narrative to pair with it. Treasure Vault proves they're willing to do a book like a big book of equipment for PF2E, so long as they can add a great story about a little Kobold organizing and showing off an Underworld Dragon's massive treasure hoard.

What's to stop Paizo from doing that type of writing pairing for a sequel to the APG? Make it something like "The Pathfinder Training Manual" or "[Golarion Character]'s Art of War", and have it be a narrative training manual about advanced techniques or obscure variations of certain class paths. It'd give us a big expansion book to cover a lot of undertuned bases, but still written in an interesting way for those who would enjoy casually reading it.

[keftiu]

aobst128 wrote:

Treasure vault sounds like it'll be a "generic" book. Not exactly what we're talking about but it'll add stuff that hypothetically could support any and all classes. And fix some of the future proofing they added hopefully.

I believe even that has the framing device of being the hoard of a specific Underworld Dragon, with commentary throughout from their Kobold keeper of the hoard.

[aobst128]

keftiu wrote:

aobst128 wrote:

Treasure vault sounds like it'll be a "generic" book. Not exactly what we're talking about but it'll add stuff that hypothetically could support any and all classes. And fix some of the future proofing they added hopefully.

I believe even that has the framing device of being the hoard of a specific Underworld Dragon, with commentary throughout from their Kobold keeper of the hoard.

That's pretty cool. I was thinking more in the sense that it isn't focused on one kind of theme and will inevitably support every class most likely. Just not in the feat sense.

[AnimatedPaper]

Ezekieru wrote:

But I don't think the prospect of a "APG 2" would be impossible... so long as there's an interesting narrative to pair with it. Treasure Vault proves they're willing to do a book like a big book of equipment for PF2E, so long as they can add a great story about a little Kobold organizing and showing off an Underworld Dragon's massive treasure hoard.

What's to stop Paizo from doing that type of writing pairing for a sequel to the APG? Make it something like "The Pathfinder Training Manual" or "[Golarion Character]'s Art of War", and have it be a narrative training manual about advanced techniques or obscure variations of certain class paths. It'd give us a big expansion book to cover a lot of undertuned bases, but still written in an interesting way for those who would enjoy casually reading it.

This is where I'm at. Of all the books, I did NOT expect them to find a way to move Ultimate Equipment into PF2 using their current format, and that's exactly what they did (even referencing UE in the keynote).

So if they can bring that one about, I have little doubt they could do the same with anything they cared to.

[QuidEst]

There are a lot of little frustrating things lying around that are possible, but a little hard to do.

Bloodrager was a fun martial with a little transformation thrown in. And Barbarian instincts do that great for the little slice where they overlap! ... But there are only six choices, with one being "no thanks" and another being "I refuse all magic." But demonic, or aberrant, or something like that? You need to get your charisma up, spend two feats, and you can cast a focus spell, but only before you rage.

I was pretty surprised at not getting anything for Investigator in the "big book of weird stuff that could do with some investigating". I love Thaumaturge, and it absolutely works as an occult detective... but it would have been a shoe-in for a methodology for the occult investigator trope that had multiple PF1 archetypes. Psychic multiclass definitely adds solid options there, so I'm not too bummed about it.

Summoner doesn't even have an eidolon matched to every summoning spell yet, and I'm looking forward to whenever we do get synthesist.

---

The negative:

There's just kind of an annoying feeling of... "Better get the playtest right, because that'll be it." Archetypes are great, but sometimes I just want more choices from the class. The occasional uncommon or rare region-specific feat doesn't really cut it.

Buuut part of that is being used to PF1, where there was a book dedicated to mechanical options every month or two. They had to scale that back even during PF1, and it sounds like it was unsustainable.

The positive:

We've got a big book of equipment coming out. That's just the sort of options-heavy book I'm looking forward to, and it'll be coming out two and a half years after the APG. A big options-focused broad-themed book every two years or so? That sounds about right. I feel like something in the "APG 2" vein, "big generic book o' feats" would probably be PF2's equivalent of PF1's unchained book. It'll benefit from having some time to percolate.

The other thing is that new classes do a lot of heavy lifting. Before Dark Archive, an occult detective would be an Investigator with the Witch multiclass making a deal with some entity for the occult magic to uncover more secrets and maybe the Consult the Spirits skill feat. After Dark Archive, you can make a Thaumaturge with a tome and/or lantern implement, and Investigator can now take Psychic multiclass instead, and can even get an upgraded version of Detect Magic that meshes very nicely with the them. That's in addition to new Occultism skill feats that support the theme.

Kineticist coming out will do a lot more for blaster characters than dedicating a bunch of Sorcerer feats to it.

Anyway, just some rambling thoughts about this stuff.

[Gaulin]

I would definitely like existing fest buckets be bigger buckets instead of having more buckets.

At the same time, I understand the decision paizo is making. Having to buy every rulebook to have access to every druid or fighter feat would be pretty daunting to new players and could easily turn them off. But some niche feats in every third book doesn't make one feel like they have to buy every book, just the ones that fit their character.

[SaveVersus]

I wouldn't mind a PF equivalent book to Xanathar or Tasha's, where stuff from the APs were collected into one book, with possible errata, if needed.

I know it's on AON, but I'd like a book.

But I'd also like something for the other classes that only got their initial feats/subclasses, like how the Oracle got the Time mystery.

[Lollerabe]

I don't really see why an APG2-ish book wouldn't be able to be well written and brimming with cool lore.

Speaking of xanathars and Tasha's - they made for the most entertaining and lore filled reads at that point in 5e's lifespan. And they were the APG2 equivalent.

I don't want them to stop making cool books either. And by cool I mean - books where you want to actually read them, back to back.

But I don't think 'tons of options for the existing classes' and 'interesting read full of awesome lore' are mutually exclusive.

A thing I've been wondering about (and I assume none of us can know for certain):
don't you guys think it's a lot more work to design brand new (and pretty ambitious) classes like the thaum and psychic, than designing new feats/class archetypes ?

I'm asking because while new classes sells, I imagine they also require way more work. Yada yada new options for current content = less work required, less sells needed.
Or am I way of base here ?

[PossibleCabbage]

It seems likelier that they do a book on a group of classes (e.g. one on "How do people learn Magic?") and then another one on a disjoint group of classes (e.g. "Who are the greatest fighting forces on Golarion?")

I think we'd see a "More Secrets of Magic" before an APG2.

[Lollerabe]

Whatever floats the boat to be honest.

I'm just saying you could make: "welcome to the jungle" the book filled with everything nature and make it an awesome read, even though it was all druid and barb and ranger stuff. No new class.

I don't dislike their format. I've enjoyed reading both GnG and SoM, as books right after I bought them.

I imagine it's also more engaging for them as a team to work on, than a more 'dry' all options no lore book would be.

[keftiu]

With Rage of Elements bringing the Kineticist and (presumably) a bunch of love to Primal characters, I feel like the strongest themed book they could do is showing the Divine some love.

Champions still lacking an LN Cause feels like one of the greatest lacks so far, given that thematic space's long history in d20 fantasy all the way up to Golarion's own Hellknights, and presumably CN Champions should follow. The Divine spell list struggles to a frustrating degree with damage, and the issue with Neutral deities lacking damage at all due to alignment is a clear feel-bad. At the risk of parodying myself, the Inquisitor, Medium, and Shaman feel like the biggest remaining class niches that can't really be replicated with current options, and I think there's potentially room to fold a Medium into the Shaman much in the same way 2e Summoners ate up the Spiritualist.

In addition to having a lot of exciting options, it would shut me up, which I'm pretty sure is written on a post-it note somewhere in the Paizo offices.

[Squiggit]

keftiu wrote:

With Rage of Elements bringing the Kineticist and (presumably) a bunch of love to Primal characters

I'd caution that's a big presumably. People thought Dark Archive would do cool things for Occult classes and Investigators because of its theme, but Druids and Rangers got all the new class feats, and there's as many new divine subclasses as occult ones (one each, for oracle and witch). Likewise I don't think a lot of people expected dedicated Monk support in Secrets of Magic.

Rage of Elements might very well end up just having a handful of Gunslinger feats and one new Summoner eidolon and that's it.

[graystone]

Squiggit wrote:

I'd caution that's a big presumably. People thought Dark Archive would do cool things for Occult classes and Investigators because of its theme

Or some framework for how Recall checks are meant to work...

Squiggit wrote:

Rage of Elements might very well end up just having a handful of Gunslinger feats and one new Summoner eidolon and that's it.

Some rogue feats and a witch familiar [the pet rock].

[Errenor]

graystone wrote:

a witch familiar [the pet rock].

You probably think you were joking...

Though we already have elemental familiars and earth ones probably could look like stones even though they are Wisps. And also a construct familiar looking like an earth elemental.

[YuriP]

Talk about familiars in PF2 except for some very specific use usually is a joke.

[belgrath9344]

I want mythic slash /epic with classes slowing down nows a good time in the next year or 2 too introduce demigod lvl pcs & monsters it's the lastbig thing before i consider the gamevcomplete & no I won't quit asking & hoping till it happens either that or high seas land of the Linnorm Kings or or tian xia or darklands I'd also love a book & ap on the red mantis assassins i'm excited though for treasure vault & the fortune telling ap

[keftiu]

belgrath9344 wrote:

I want mythic slash /epic with classes slowing down nows a good time in the next year or 2 too introduce demigod lvl pcs & monsters it's the lastbig thing before i consider the gamevcomplete & no I won't quit asking & hoping till it happens either that or high seas land of the Linnorm Kings or or tian xia or darklands I'd also love a book & ap on the red mantis assassins i'm excited though for treasure vault & the fortune telling ap

Belgrath, I love your enthusiam, but it’s a little tough to parse your posts without punctuation!

[belgrath9344]

keftiu wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

I want mythic slash /epic with classes slowing down nows a good time in the next year or 2 too introduce demigod lvl pcs & monsters it's the lastbig thing before i consider the gamevcomplete & no I won't quit asking & hoping till it happens either that or high seas land of the Linnorm Kings or or tian xia or darklands I'd also love a book & ap on the red mantis assassins i'm excited though for treasure vault & the fortune telling ap

Belgrath, I love your enthusiam, but it’s a little tough to parse your posts without punctuation!

very tired atm.

[HumbleGamer]

I have the feeling we are going to get some extra class specializations during the next years, but mostly for characters like the summoner or the sorcerer, whose concept is based on different creatures.

I also wouldn't mind a third specialization for the cleric class.

[Guntermench]

Technically one could say we already got a Divine book in Gods & Magic (yes, I'm aware it's more of a setting book) since more Deity options is directly more options for Divine characters.

But I too would like more for them.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

keftiu wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

I want mythic slash /epic with classes slowing down nows a good time in the next year or 2 too introduce demigod lvl pcs & monsters it's the lastbig thing before i consider the gamevcomplete & no I won't quit asking & hoping till it happens either that or high seas land of the Linnorm Kings or or tian xia or darklands I'd also love a book & ap on the red mantis assassins i'm excited though for treasure vault & the fortune telling ap

Belgrath, I love your enthusiam, but it’s a little tough to parse your posts without punctuation!

Aaand that's why coffee is for grown-ups!

[David knott 242]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

keftiu wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

I want mythic slash /epic with classes slowing down nows a good time in the next year or 2 too introduce demigod lvl pcs & monsters it's the lastbig thing before i consider the gamevcomplete & no I won't quit asking & hoping till it happens either that or high seas land of the Linnorm Kings or or tian xia or darklands I'd also love a book & ap on the red mantis assassins i'm excited though for treasure vault & the fortune telling ap

Belgrath, I love your enthusiam, but it’s a little tough to parse your posts without punctuation!

Aaand that's why coffee is for grown-ups!

Unless you live in Colombia, where they do not comprehend the idea of a minimum age for drinking coffee.

[Temperans]

Coffee is for everyone. Specially ice cream, candy, and cake made of coffee.

[TriOmegaZero]

Wait, coffee for kids is illegal?

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

Temperans wrote:

Coffee is for everyone. Specially ice cream, candy, and cake made of coffee.

Sir, this is a gaming forum.

[Cyrad]

There's a nasty trend where a class or ancestry releases with few options and feats and then rarely gets any support afterward.

On top of it, I'm not a fan of the mini adventures that appear in Book of the Dead and Dark Archive. They don't even use the books' content and game mechanics. Book of the Dead had tons of neat new undead monsters, and the adventure is mostly just run-of-the-mill zombies and skeletons.