Gen Con 2022 Predictions

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Fantasy nerds have a vision of what an Inquisitor is. Holy assassins and zealous investigators prominently feature across all sorts of pop culture, not least of which is the ever-popular Warhammer 40k.

I think my basic hangup is that I can't see any examples anywhere in pop culture where "Inquisitor" is associated with anything positive (the Imperium are the *BAD GUYS* in WH40k). So it's just kind of like calling a class "Villain". The thematic well just comes pre-poisoned against these folks for me in a way that it doesn't for "Cleric" or "Champion/Paladin." I liked the class in PF1 as a bundle of mechanics and basically no other way.

Like aside from PF1, the history of Catholic Church, and Warhammer 40k where can I find "Inquisitors"?

I think “aside from PF1” is a strange restriction here - asking for precedents when the game we’re talking about has already had them feels a little silly. Just off the top of my head…

Dragon Age: Inquisition cast your main character as the head of a newly-reassembled Inquisition, using the largest human church for legitimacy as you work against an apocalyptic threat and meddle in continental affairs. Leliana, your spymaster, can end up becoming the Fantasy Pope in the end, but serves you as a faithful seneschal… and is not shy about her past as an assassin.

Elden Ring has a starting class called the Confessor, “a church spy adept at covert operations.” They’re skulking around in a hood, and use a mix of dexterity weapons and faith-based miracle magic.

Some Star Wars works establish the role of a Jedi Sentinel, a member of the order who serves the Light not as a knight, diplomat, or mystic, but by living among the galaxy in secret and hunting down threats to peace and balance. Many end up functionally being spies or detectives, using the gifts of the Force and their lightsabers to carry them out of peril in the criminal underworld.

We get “assassin” as a word from the stories of the pious killers of the fortress at Alamut; long before them, the Sicarii resisted Roman domination of their faith and people with public murders.

I also do want to say that I’m well aware the Imperium is a backwards, cruel, nightmare faction, but that doesn’t stop 40k from being popular, and it definitely doesn’t stop that Inquisition being wildly popular. There’s a reason fans tell new readers to start with the Inquisitor Eisenhorn books, and why that series has ten titles in it, to say nothing of how many other Inquisitorial series and characters are out there from Black Library beyond Abnett’s work.

Faith and holiness are shiny, bright concepts - it’s a natural impulse to want to juxtapose them against darkness, or to enjoy characters who express those things in nonstandard ways or complicate them.

[PossibleCabbage]

If you change the name and make it really clear that this person has a job that is not "find people who are breaking the rules of your religion", which is kind of toxic since the baseline of the setting is that people tolerate people of most other religions. Also please make it clear that that person has a job other than "fix problems your deity/church picks out" since that puts pressure on the GM to figure out "okay, what exact problem with [deity] find in this story". Additionally make it available for people who have non-deific characters, like people who worship the spirits in everything, their ancestors, etc. When you make 75% of the divine classes unavailable for people who follow the Rivethun, Juju, Tamashigo, Sangpotshi, etc. it sort of makes it seem like those people are "incorrect" in a way that it's bad for the mechanics to do.

Then I have no problems with the class. It's just that I would prefer another Primal, Arcane, or Occult class before another Divine one.

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

If you change the name and make it really clear that this person has a job that is not "find people who are breaking the rules of your religion", which is kind of toxic since the baseline of the setting is that people tolerate people of most other religions. Also please make it clear that that person has a job other than "fix problems your deity/church picks out" since that puts pressure on the GM to figure out "okay, what exact problem with [deity] find in this story". Additionally make it available for people who have non-deific characters, like people who worship the spirits in everything, their ancestors, etc. When you make 75% of the divine classes unavailable for people who follow the Rivethun, Juju, Tamashigo, Sangpotshi, etc. it sort of makes it seem like those people are "incorrect" in a way that it's bad for the mechanics to do.

Then I have no problems with the class. It's just that I would prefer another Primal, Arcane, or Occult class before another Divine one.

I have said repeatedly that my view of the class is not “beat up members of the faith,” it’s “go hunt the enemies of your faith” - which is less fraught in Golarion when those “enemies” are things like undead, demons, and so on. You’re the wrathful left hand, not an Internal Affairs cop. Was the class ever presented as such in 1e? I don’t recall Imrijka beating up on other Pharasmins.

I do agree that the non-theistic faiths are overdue for some love, and part of the reason I want Medium and/or Shaman back is how well those enable that. Inquisitors are in a fuzzy space with that, bur a Green Faith Inquisitors seeking out environmental despoilers or nature-blighting divs seems coherent to me.

[Ly'ualdre]

Imo, the seeming restriction on non-religious spiritualism and philosophies was the biggest mistake Paizo made. At least for me. They are literally set up in the same way all the Deities are. It just seems like an odd omission and missed opportunity, if you ask me, to say a Cleric/Champion of the Green Faith gains no benefit; especially in a world where one's conviction and belief can seemingly force magical phenomenon. Wouldn't even need to preface it that way all the time. Like, surely the Whispering Way has secret spells that most other Clerics wouldn't have
That is something I whole heartedly hope gets changed.

[keftiu]

Yet another reason to hope Paizo does a book divine book; non-theistic faiths, something to help divine characters of Neutral deities (the issues with alignment damage, basically), finally getting LN and CN Champions (it feels absurd to not have them by now!), and of course new classes.

[Ly'ualdre]

General Divine expansion book, eventually followed by 2e versions on the writings of Tabris, being what Book of the Dead for Undead to Celestials, Monitors, and Fiends. Additionally, each could have a series of random pages scattered throughout them that, if you have all 3 books, add up to make a sort of "bonus book" which dives into the hidden content of the Apocrypha, Lost Gospel of Tabris, and/or any other secrets hidden between the pages of each volume.

*insert "Shut Up and Take My Money!" meme*

[Perpdepog]

keftiu wrote:

I have said repeatedly that my view of the class is not “beat up members of the faith,” it’s “go hunt the enemies of your faith” - which is less fraught in Golarion when those “enemies” are things like undead, demons, and so on. You’re the wrathful left hand, not an Internal Affairs cop. Was the class ever presented as such in 1e? I don’t recall Imrijka beating up on other Pharasmins.[/quote[

Spoilering my response so that those as want to ignore it can keep talking about the main thrust of the thread.

Spoiler:

Actually, the plot of Death's Heretic, a novel starring a Pharasmin inquisitor--albeit a reluctant one--expressly has a Pharasmin priest who isn't toeing the line as the primary antagonist, though it's occluded until the end of the novel. So yeah, they very much can be internal affairs cops.

That's not what disinterests me in the idea of the class, though. I'm mostly uncomfortable with the idea that an inquisitor can somehow go against the tenets of their faith when convenient, as demonstrated in their class description.

Inquisitor wrote:

Grim and determined, the inquisitor roots out enemies of the faith, using trickery and guile when righteousness and purity is not enough. Although inquisitors are dedicated to a deity, they are above many of the normal rules and conventions of the church. They answer to their deity and their own sense of justice alone, and are willing to take extreme measures to meet their goals.

Emphasis mine. The fact that these agents are also still divinely empowered by their deity has some real uncomfortable implications, at least for me. It suggests that the edicts and anathema that gods are supposed to play by are more notional than actually important to the deity in question, and any reprehensible things inquisitors do in the services of their current goal are endorsed by that deity. This arguably fits some deities, I can easily see Milani advocating underhanded tactics when combating tyranny--though this example isn't especially compelling since "using underhanded tactics to combat tyranny" fits into Milani's default portfolio pretty neatly--but becomes a lot more problematic when dealing with other deities. The inquisitor of Iomedae from WotR comes to mind, though his name escapes me. The guy wants you to off members of a fellow goodly faith because they don't personally conform to what he thinks the war against demonkind needs, and still rocks Iomedae's power while carrying out the slaughter, or asking you to.

I get the same kinds of uncomfortable, squicky feelings considering implications like these as I do when considering that now-retracted passage about Erastil supporting "traditional--read misogynistic--family structures. If goodly deities are meant to be good, then why does a class exist expressly as an out for them to ignore the ideals that make them good when convenient? The 1E inquisitor always struck me as "loose cannon cop who doesn't play by the rules" the class, only replacing the implicit authority of the state with the tacit encouragement of a deity who, at least as Pathfinder presents them, should really know better than to play those kinds of mental gymnastics.

All that being said, get rid of that aspect of the class and turn them into something like a more offensively-minded champion and I'm fine. I'm not a big fan of divine classes as a general rule, but it's the exceptionalism and implied carte blanche to do horrible crap that I always objected to in the class rather than building a character who likes to bring the smite to baddie bad guys but also be smart about how they went about doing it.

Actually on-topic, I'll hope again for a totally martial class who focuses on coordinating allies and throwing around bonuses, like a non-empowered champion. I think that'd be a neat class space that we keep seeing hints of, the Martial archetype, lots of PF1E archetypes, etc., but hasn't ever fully become its own thing. I feel like it could also fold in the idea of the Defender/Guardian class that people are hoping for, too as a class path more focused on defensive reactions.

[keftiu]

My view of a 2e Inquisitor is a sneaky, skill-y divine class that can drop smites on bad guys. Everything else is secondary, and any of that 1e baggage is just as easily left behind as it was for anything else that’s been updated.

[aobst128]

Evil inquisitors are likely to be the infighting types. I could definitely see an inquisitor of Achaekek "cleaning up" a band of pretender assassins or hunting down Red Mantis assassins who have lost their way.

[Romão98]

Get ready for the announcement of Pathfinder 2nd edition - Realm of the Fey, late 2023.

Contains everything you'd expect from a First World book (Setting Description, Seeds of Adventure, New Ancestries, Druid and Witch Class Expansion, New Theme Archetypes, Bestiary, magic treasures and spells.) Yeahh maybe there's too much on this list. lol

[PossibleCabbage]

I really hope the Fae book is titled "Masters of the First" to keep the theme of these books being named the same thing as the diagetic famous book that contains this information (like Book of the Dead, Book of the Damned, Concordance of Rivals, etc.)

[Perpdepog]

The fun thing is they're spoiled for choice when it comes to aberration-focused books to crib from. Golarion is lousy with them. The Necronomicon is there, though I'd rather see a more uniquely Pathfinder title make the cut.

Honestly, a book about different famous books in the setting would be cool. There are so many; books and information are big cornerstones of Golarion lore. There's one that I've always wondered about called Withered Footsteps of the Dire Shpeherd which is supposed to have some connection to daemons, but I've got no idea what it is, where it is, or who the Dire Shepherd might be.

[The Raven Black]

Ly'ualdre wrote:

Imo, the seeming restriction on non-religious spiritualism and philosophies was the biggest mistake Paizo made. At least for me. They are literally set up in the same way all the Deities are. It just seems like an odd omission and missed opportunity, if you ask me, to say a Cleric/Champion of the Green Faith gains no benefit; especially in a world where one's conviction and belief can seemingly force magical phenomenon. Wouldn't even need to preface it that way all the time. Like, surely the Whispering Way has secret spells that most other Clerics wouldn't have

That is something I whole heartedly hope gets changed.

I think the problem lies with the Rules of Man being such a philosophy.

A Divine-powered Rahadoumi Inquisitor championing Golarion's atheism sounds pretty awful TBT.

It's not new though. The root cause is that designers never really chose between Divine classes being powered from outside (the deities) or inside (the character's faith).

If it's the latter, why are there even deities and worshippers? While if it's the former, it feels too much like "proper belief is this way".

[Ly'ualdre]

I think about it from the standpoint of the 1e Druid. I know it isn't technically canon anymore, but they gained their power from their faith in nature. Then you look at something like Thaumaturge, which was suggested to make things real on belief alone. So there is some precedence I think. And the, again, I think they could equit known secrets to how faithful in the philosophy someone is. Like, the average layman won't gain access to them, but a Champion or Cleric, who have devoted themselves to the philosophy, could.

I probably would care as much if the philosophies weren't organized the same way the religions are; or if some of them didn't provide a Divine Ability or Skill. That in itself makes me think something is going on there. Whether strictly faith or specialized training.

I'm curious to see how the cults and secret societies end up functioning in Dark Archieves. If they have meaningful mechanical application, I'd personally appreciate re-examining how the faiths & philosophies are handled.

I once considered granting them access to special Feats instead of spells, that only they can take, that are specific to their following and represents special knowledge or training gained thought it. But, idk.

[Karmagator]

I would love a Dreamlands/Leng/Elder Mythos book, complete with versatile heritages. I need more aberration and dream stuff in my game.

[Sibelius Eos Owm]

I seem to recall a response in the Ask James Jacobs thread which implied or stated that Clerics do get their power from their faith in their god... but also that the god was an essential part of the equation. Like the power comes from the individual faith but there is no power in faith to an inapplicable entity or something. I'd have to go fi d it again and honestly it might have been a years old post that has since been reconciled in lore for all I know...

[WatersLethe]

I'm hoping Paizo announces a new series of novels set on Golarion but in the Low Stakes Fantasy genre, ala Legends and Lattes.

[Sanityfaerie]

You could totally fit a fantasy-noir detective series into Golarion. Nidal is probably a bit too dark for it, but Rahadoum, Cheliax, or Geb?

[Xethik]

I'm actually expecting playtest announcements next week at the latest. They usually like having about a month of heads-up time, and I imagine they will try to schedule the playtest for shortly after GenCon if at all possible.

[Dave2]

I would love to see a Mythic book. Still think about year off. So maybe the book announced Gen Con 2023 for release in Summer 24. This announcement will be classes dealing Blood Magic. Blood Rager and maybe caster. They mentioned blood Magic was coming in upcoming book.

[Gaulin]

Xethik wrote:

I'm actually expecting playtest announcements next week at the latest. They usually like having about a month of heads-up time, and I imagine they will try to schedule the playtest for shortly after GenCon if at all possible.

I don't think that's true? They usually announce new classes at gencon and then have a playtest come out shortly after. Or am I misremembering

[Onkonk]

Gaulin wrote:

Xethik wrote:

I'm actually expecting playtest announcements next week at the latest. They usually like having about a month of heads-up time, and I imagine they will try to schedule the playtest for shortly after GenCon if at all possible.

I don't think that's true? They usually announce new classes at gencon and then have a playtest come out shortly after. Or am I misremembering

The actual playtest is usually being announced before though, but it is more "hey, there is gonna be a playtest soon" and then everyone thinks the image of the woman moving a chess piece they always use is related to the classes the playtest is about.

[Gaulin]

Onkonk wrote:

Gaulin wrote:

Xethik wrote:

I'm actually expecting playtest announcements next week at the latest. They usually like having about a month of heads-up time, and I imagine they will try to schedule the playtest for shortly after GenCon if at all possible.

I don't think that's true? They usually announce new classes at gencon and then have a playtest come out shortly after. Or am I misremembering

The actual playtest is usually being announced before though, but it is more "hey, there is gonna be a playtest soon" and then everyone thinks the image of the woman moving a chess piece they always use is related to the classes the playtest is about.

Ah that makes sense, sorry about that I misunderstood.

[PossibleCabbage]

They all but announced there was going to be another playtest during PaizoCon.

[Ly'ualdre]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

They all but announced there was going to be another playtest during PaizoCon.

This. I recall it being eluded to once or twice during the panels, and several of the staff basically saying as much in the Discord.

[Amaya/Polaris]

As much as I like the Divine stuff...I'm almost a little sick of Divine stuff. Gods and Magic, Book of the Dead, Knights of Lastwall — none of it was exactly a dedicated "Divine classes and player options" book the way Dark Archives was pretty close to a dedicated "Occult classes and spooky stuff" book, since they were all Lost Omens books I think?, but...the themes just keep coming back! Give it a little rest, I say. Throwing my hat in the ring for a big Primal supplement, and tossing a bracelet into the purely-martial-defender ring because seriously how is that not its own class yet.

[belgrath9344]

mythic rules playtest

[keftiu]

belgrath9344 wrote:

mythic rules playtest

Any specific hopes or fears?

[Saedar]

keftiu wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

mythic rules playtest

Any specific hopes or fears?

For me, I hope it uses a parallel advancement track OR Paizo seriously cranks up the Archetype power budget for Mythic. Archetypes have been generally cool, and a few have been stellar, but most feel similar to post-CRB classes in that they seem intentionally designed to be weaker and/or more niche than CRB stuff. I really liked the way Owlcat represented Mythic in the CRPG and would love something conceptually similar for 2e Mythic.

If any subsystem should be allowed to crack the game wide open, it is Mythic.

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

Future Tech book (covering postapo, swords and lasers and xcore scifi territory) with Solarian and Precog classes for a PF2/SF crossover paving slowly way towards a PF2-based Starfinder 2e that I'll be interested in playing.

Failing that, a Dragon Empires book with ninja and not-shugenja or Faiths of Something book with inquisitor and shaman.

[AnimatedPaper]

One point I’d like to bring up; Arcadia plot hooks draws strongly on primal themes and exploration. And to a certain extent that’s true of almost every region, there’s a ton of places in what write ups we’ve gotten of Arcadia that note that large parts of it are unsettled and unexplored, even parts that run up against long settled locales, like the Western continent in what is Old Razatlan. Some of the missing class narratives that you’d need to properly flesh out the continent and its peoples (the Shaman springs strongly to mind) also have primal themes.

So if Arcadia is something we’ll go in on pretty soon, and there’s definitely been indications that some of the designers would love for that to happen, I would imagine a rulebook with strong primal themes would well serve to prepare the game for that.

[Xethik]

I personally wouldn't mind a spiritual successor to Ultimate Intrigue - Spies and Socialites.

Or something. But while the GMG has good alternative rulesets for things like influence and heists, I feel like we could get a full book of new skill feats, items, spells, and hazards related to that..

Plus, you know, Inquisitor.

[Gaulin]

I get the feeling that paizo doesn't really like primal stuff lol. It seems to me they find it easier to be creative with arcane or creepy stuff instead of nature. All conjecture, of course, and I am biased as I really like nature as magic/a theme.

[WWHsmackdown]

A predict a wisdom class playtest......if only bc I want another SAD class, lol

[Ly'ualdre]

Gaulin wrote:

I get the feeling that paizo doesn't really like primal stuff lol. It seems to me they find it easier to be creative with arcane or creepy stuff instead of nature. All conjecture, of course, and I am biased as I really like nature as magic/a theme.

I feel it is more just a scheduling thing. Most everything we have seen thus far has been largely themed. I'm sure that whenever they decide to do an Primal/nature theme, we will see an absolute slew of material related to it. Rulebooks, AP, etc.

I've always been more partial to Divine stuff. So that's the direction I'm leaning towards. But I recognize that there is hardly a drought on Divine content. Primal definitely needs it the most.

[keftiu]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

One point I’d like to bring up; Arcadia plot hooks draws strongly on primal themes and exploration. And to a certain extent that’s true of almost every region, there’s a ton of places in what write ups we’ve gotten of Arcadia that note that large parts of it are unsettled and unexplored, even parts that run up against long settled locales, like the Western continent in what is Old Razatlan. Some of the missing class narratives that you’d need to properly flesh out the continent and its peoples (the Shaman springs strongly to mind) also have primal themes.

So if Arcadia is something we’ll go in on pretty soon, and there’s definitely been indications that some of the designers would love for that to happen, I would imagine a rulebook with strong primal themes would well serve to prepare the game for that.

I would definitely welcome an Arcadia book and imagine any year with one would likely also see the Shaman come back… but how sure as we a 2e Shaman wouldn’t be divine? I know Michael Sayre has said he hopes to have any new take on the class hew much more closely to real-world shamanic traditions, rather than the pop culture version, and that might shift it somewhat.

EDIT: Are large parts of Arcadia really “unsettled and unexplored”? The ancient Razatlani conquered almost the entire continent, Degasi is in an international sports league with a dozen other Arcadian countries, and the tech level seems higher on average than Avistan. I don’t really recall anything describing the continent as some untamed wilderness, but I can remember Xopatl talking about having a good-sized tourism industry.

[Ly'ualdre]

I'm not sure about unexplored, but it is described as being mostly unsettled or "unclaimed by civilization". I imagine the people of Arcadia live more in touch with nature and the world than places like Avistan.

EDIT: I'd like to imagine Shaman's would be Primal. But I wouldn't think Divine, mostly because of how PF2 handles any form of faith not tied to a Deity as anything but.

There is also the bit in Secrets of Magic that suggests that Mediums, if we get them, are likely Divine in nature. As much as I love Divine Classes, having the likes of Medium, Shaman, and possibly Inquistor as Divine Classes seems a bit bloated.

[PossibleCabbage]

Yeah, the core of "is x divine" should be "is it about spiritual and vital essence" not "is it related to gods/religion."

[keftiu]

I’m a little wary of presenting Arcadia as some verdant wilderness and its people as “in touch with nature” - it can very quickly lead into very messy thematic spaces around an “unclaimed” New World and a noble savage vision of indigenous peoples. I don’t think think of Arcadia as any less “tamed” than Garund, and would look similarly sideways about using this language for that continent based on similar reasons.

Segada has massive outdoor elevators, one of many great technologies that exist throughout the Land of Northern Lakes. The Deadshot Lands are a hub of firearm innovation. Jolizpan is a great city surrounded by the amazing, “civilized” country of Xopatl - one born from an effort to repel a massive local empire. Every place we’ve seen in Arcadia save for the frontier outpost that is Port Valen is one that’s been firmly shaped by mortal hands and culture.

[PossibleCabbage]

The designated "unclaimed" part of the setting is the part that got a meteor dropped on it 10,000 years ago anyway.

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

The designated "unclaimed" part of the setting is the part that got a meteor dropped on it 10,000 years ago anyway.

And acting like a continent with 10,000 years of continuous civilization is “unsettled and unclaimed” is… troubling.

[RiverMesa]

At most I could see an element of "certain parts of Arcadia's natural landscapes were cleverly shaped and cultivated to suit the needs of their inhabitants, rather than being thoughtlessly exploited for farmland or industry" (which if I'm not mistaken is the whole reason why conquistadors et al. in our world mistook America for some sort of paradise), but even that is still far from being "unsettled" and "untouched by civilization".

Anyway...
Surprised we still haven't heard any Official word on an upcoming playtest (it's very easy to assume there will be one, but Paizo usually tends to give some sort of heads up on the blog by now).

Still hoping my own Tian Xia theory comes to pass and we get some juicy Tian Xia-related Lost Omens announcements.
(There certainly is an awful lot of Tien stuff in Dark Archive, I'm just saying...Then again, it is a very 'worldwide' book.)

[keftiu]

What playtest pairs with a year where we go to Tian Xia?

[Ly'ualdre]

keftiu wrote:

What playtest pairs with a year where we go to Tian Xia?

Any number of them really, depending on how they tie them together.

Obvious one is the Kineticist. With its Iconic being from Tian-Xia and the common trope of elemental philosophy and control in media (like Avatar), it could fit.

Shamanism was/is a pretty big thing in many Asian cultures. As is Mediumship.

Warlord can tie into the many instances and examples of military leaders from Asian history; like Daimyo.

Inquisitor is a little less solid, but I do immediately think of the Inspector character from The King's Affection; who invokes a non-theist Inquistor vibe for me. Could be examples of better tie-ins here. And the "Inspector is Coming" is the less militant/religious sister trope to the "Inquistor General". But this one certainly has less stock to it.

I'm sure I could come up with other examples, but these immediately come to mind. Again, all depends on how exactly they tie it to Tian-Xia's lore and culture I suppose.

But, I wouldn't expect it would honestly.

EDIT: That said, I am about 98% certain we are going to Tian-Xia soon. There were several instances of Paizo staff being more or less ambiguous when asked questions about the Dragon Empires coming. I recall one of them basically saying "wait and see".

EDIT EDIT: Also, as far as the "unclaimed by civilization" bit goes, I feel it is definitely less about delivering a place to conquer and settle, and more emulating those ancient cultures found in Central America? Like, when I think of the Mayans, I don't see a nation-spanning settlement of nature and instead imagine sparse cities spread largely throughout an untamable environment; coexisting with it more. That's just my thought process however. With little information to work with, it is hard to say WHY Arcadia's land is suggested to be "unclaimed by civilization" until we see more of it. But, I will definitely standby the idea that is is hardly to give players a place to conquer.

[Saedar]

I imagine the "unclaimed by civ" thing is a result of a Paizo culture that wasn't quite as globally aware as they are now. It looks like Pathfinder Wiki (dubious reliability, I know) attributes the line to the 2011 Inner Sea World Guide. Given the treatment of the Mwangi Expanse and other anti-colonial framings in 2e, I wouldn't be shocked to see a similar reframing happen for Arcadia.

Tangential: If you want to see an example of what an Indigenous American TTRPG looks like, I recommend checking out "Coyote and Crow". Gorgeous art, interesting mechanics with in-world symbolism, and a fascinating perspective on non-Euro civilization.

[belgrath9344]

keftiu wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

mythic rules playtest

Any specific hopes or fears?

hopes. thiers multiple mechanics for becoming a demigod the starstone bieng the primary obviously 2 stat chart for for 26-30 3 stats for the 4 horsemen psycopomp ushers and maybe the eldest

fears it never bieng a thing its the only big thing I want from the system at this point

[Totally Not Gorbacz]

Starstone makes you a god, not a demigod.

[QuidEst]

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Starstone makes you a god, not a demigod.

Starstone can actually do either. Sometimes people come out with a "partial success" result, so to speak. What that entails varies.

[WatersLethe]

QuidEst wrote:

Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:

Starstone makes you a god, not a demigod.

Starstone can actually do either. Sometimes people come out with a "partial success" result, so to speak. What that entails varies.

"I took the test of the Starstone and all I got was this chain shirt"

[PossibleCabbage]

IIRC it's canonical that some people get to walk away from the Test of the Starstone with fabulous wealth and no greater powers, but some people just get to walk away with their lives and nothing else.

I wonder what the ratio of "people who fall in the pit" to "people who expire in the cathedral" is.