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Huh. So, random non-kineticist takeaways from TMS's write-up: (Thanks TMS!)
- We have another version of plant-people! Inherently tasty, but don't want to be eaten. Huh.
The Ghoran were in 1e, and revealed to be coming in LO:IL at PaizoCon!
Speaking of, I was surprised that the Impossible Lands section featured all the same art as that previous presentation. Gen Con wasn't worthy of new slides?
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Huh. So, random non-kineticist takeaways from TMS's write-up: (Thanks TMS!)
- We have another version of plant-people! Inherently tasty, but don't want to be eaten. Huh.
The Ghoran were in 1e, and revealed to be coming in LO:IL at PaizoCon!
Speaking of, I was surprised that the Impossible Lands section featured all the same art as that previous presentation. Gen Con wasn't worthy of new slides?
I will freely admit, I do not follow Lost Omen info nearly as closely as you do.
I wouldn't say Wyverans aren't gonna be in Impossible Lands. I'm standing firm to my theory they are a Heritage, and they only mentioned new Ancestries. So there is hope.
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I will freely admit, I do not follow Lost Omen info nearly as closely as you do.Huh. So, random non-kineticist takeaways from TMS's write-up: (Thanks TMS!)
- We have another version of plant-people! Inherently tasty, but don't want to be eaten. Huh.
The Ghoran were in 1e, and revealed to be coming in LO:IL at PaizoCon!
Speaking of, I was surprised that the Impossible Lands section featured all the same art as that previous presentation. Gen Con wasn't worthy of new slides?
Autism is a helluva thing :p
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If we are lucky, we may get Wood Geniekin. Which would be awesome.
I most saddened by the lack of Ratajin info. I NEEEEEEEED to know what they are!! D:
Also, don't think we didn't catch that Gravelands slip-up Erik!!!! Lol
Would it be a GenCon if they didn't accidentally slipped a beyond the scope of the event Lost Omens announcement. Last year's was the Impossible Lands.
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Where do you find the most Wyvarans in Golarion?
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Shattered Range, which is part of the Impossible Lands region.
Also, just a heads up, one of the staff made a few comments in TMS's reddit post about some of the thoughts that went into the Kineticist.
Would it be a GenCon if they didn't accidentally slipped a beyond the scope of the event Lost Omens announcement. Last year's was the Impossible Lands.I most saddened by the lack of Ratajin info. I NEEEEEEEED to know what they are!! D:
Also, don't think we didn't catch that Gravelands slip-up Erik!!!! Lol
It also could be Knights of Lastwall on the brain, as that featured a Gravelands gazetteer.
I most saddened by the lack of Ratajin info. I NEEEEEEEED to know what they are!! D:
Also, don't think we didn't catch that Gravelands slip-up Erik!!!! Lol
I didn't see it (working). What did he say about the Gravelands?
Well my hope was for Shifter and Kineticist, hopefully better than what happened in PF1e. I am more or less liked the Legendary Kineticist put out by Legendary Games but it will be good to see Paizo's take on in for PF2e. Also if I could get into a game it would probably be easier to get a DM to allow an official Paizo Kineticist over the Legendary Games take.
I have not looked at Legendary Games take on the class, but it will definitely be interesting to see the comparisons between the two.
Just the kineticist.
i’m happy with just kineticist, but i’m secretly hoping they have a second class that they’re confident they don’t need to playtest, and don’t want to announce until later
probably because it’s gonna have math similar to a pre-existing class. fingers still crossed that that’s somehow shifter, lol
but. expectations management… do not expect anything but the kineticist. but always be prepared to be pleasantly surprised, even just by cool new archetypes
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i’m happy with just kineticist, but i’m secretly hoping they have a second class that they’re confident they don’t need to playtest, and don’t want to announce until later
probably because it’s gonna have math similar to a pre-existing class. fingers still crossed that that’s somehow shifter, lol
but. expectations management… do not expect anything but the kineticist. but always be prepared to be pleasantly surprised, even just by cool new archetypes
I wouldn't want to waste the Shifter slot on anything that was close enough to an existing class to not need playtest. For that matter, I wouldn't want a class in general that was somehow close enough to another class to not benefit from playtest. That sounds like a waste, honestly.
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I really doubt that there will ever be a class that they release without playtesting. There is really no reason to do that, no matter how confident you are. The kineticist alone will be enough work, because it's likely going to be massive. We are talking psychic levels here. Maybe more, depending on how many aspects they keep from the original.
It's not out of the cards that we will see a third big rulebook in 2023 with a playtest in January, but I wouldn't hold out for a secret second class in rage of elements.
Huh. So, random non-kineticist takeaways from TMS's write-up: (Thanks TMS!)
- We have another version of plant-people! Inherently tasty, but don't want to be eaten. Huh.
The Ghoran were in 1e, and revealed to be coming in LO:IL at PaizoCon!
Speaking of, I was surprised that the Impossible Lands section featured all the same art as that previous presentation. Gen Con wasn't worthy of new slides?
The keynote is just a quick presentation, might get new images when they go more indepth at it at the other panels.
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Y'know, it would be funny if they released Shifter without a public playtest for the second edition in a row, but I get the feeling they wouldn't want to repeat that particular history. :b
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Y'know, it would be funny if they released Shifter without a public playtest for the second edition in a row, but I get the feeling they wouldn't want to repeat that particular history. :b
If they start replaying those greatest hits I want to see a misprinted hardcover title. Maybe Cage of Elements, 1st edition Pathfinder?
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Y'know, it would be funny if they released Shifter without a public playtest for the second edition in a row, but I get the feeling they wouldn't want to repeat that particular history. :b
The Shifter is the reason that they made a policy to not release classes without playtesting them. Now this is an internal policy that they can revise without telling us, but I don't think they would.
But Rage of the Elements is probably a 226 page book like Book of the Dead and like Book of the Dead it's supposed to have a specialized bestiary at the back. They could fit a second class, but that gives less room to talk about the various planes and their denizens. Plus the Kineticist will probably rival the Psychic for page space.
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Okay, I am ready to predict the 2024 hardcover (to be announced at Gen Con 2023): A book about spirits, with the Medium and Shaman classes.
Those seem to be the biggest gaps left in the class lineup.
Y'know, it would be funny if they released Shifter without a public playtest for the second edition in a row, but I get the feeling they wouldn't want to repeat that particular history. :bThe Shifter is the reason that they made a policy to not release classes without playtesting them. Now this is an internal policy that they can revise without telling us, but I don't think they would.
But they don't do public playtests for dedications/archetypes, so any PF1 class that could be handled by a PF2 dedication/archetype might still slip by.
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Okay, I am ready to predict the 2024 hardcover (to be announced at Gen Con 2023): A book about spirits, with the Medium and Shaman classes.Those seem to be the biggest gaps left in the class lineup.
I am going to lose my mind if Inquisitor doesn’t happen next year.
I’m also increasingly convinced that Mediums should be rolled into Shamans, as dealing with the spirits of nature via ecstatic trance isn’t all that different from dealing with spirits of the dead via possession. An Inquisitor + Shaman combo provides a novel pair of approaches to faith-based characters, both radically different from the classic Cleric and Champion.
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Okay, I am ready to predict the 2024 hardcover (to be announced at Gen Con 2023): A book about spirits, with the Medium and Shaman classes.Those seem to be the biggest gaps left in the class lineup.
I'm honestly not clear on what the difference is between the Medium and Shaman. Could someone clarify? It seems like you could fuse them into a single class and have it basically continue to fill the space in the lore... especially since the places that have the one would tend to not have the other.
Also, you're still totally missing the Intercessor (Inquisitor).
On the bright side, I do think that you could fit Intercessor and Medium/Shaman into one book without too much trouble - all about intrigue and diplomacy among the cults and spirits. It'd be a pretty rich vein to mine for an AP, too.
Don't feel down. We could always get those on reprints too. I for one would love to read Book of the Bead or one of Pathfinder's amazing Vestiaries.
These seem like excellent 3PP opportunities, though. Even better - Book of the Bread. Features huge swaths of lore information about growing, milling, and baking of the staff of life in various places across Golarion, a number of useful spells (Raise bread! Animate Bread!) and the Bread Golem: the loyal defender you can eat.
In PF1, Shaman is more of a traditional spellcaster than the Medium is, so the big unknown is what sort of mechanic they would use for the Medium. Combining Medium with Shaman would mean that they decide to make the Medium more of a traditional spellcaster than it has ever been and basically give up on it having any distinct identity of its own. The ability to switch "classes" on a daily basis would be a lot to give up on.
Inquisitor is another major missing class, but I am not sure what sort of theme they would use to include it. It seems to be a spontaneous divine caster (maybe along the lines of what they did for the Magus and the Summoner) that is somewhere between the Cleric and the Champion in theme. I can't see this class filling a book on its own, nor do I have any idea what theme they could make this class fit into in a larger book.
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I'm honestly not clear on what the difference is between the Medium and Shaman.
I'm honestly not sure how to articulate the differences between them because they have almost nothing in common whatsoever, other than that they both reference spirits, but even in that capacity they approach those ideas in pretty different ways.
I don't see a way possible to combine them while still retaining anything about their underlying identities.
Now, Paizo's already said they aren't really interested in converting the PF1 shaman, but I'm not really sure you could fit the new themes being discussed into a chassis that looks a lot like the Medium either.
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Inquisitor is another major missing class, but I am not sure what sort of theme they would use to include it. It seems to be a spontaneous divine caster (maybe along the lines of what they did for the Magus and the Summoner) that is somewhere between the Cleric and the Champion in theme. I can't see this class filling a book on its own, nor do I have any idea what theme they could make this class fit into in a larger book.
The obvious pull is a divine book, a theme the rulebook line hasn’t really gotten to yet. Inquisitors and Shamans would both fit with a focus on nontraditional faiths (cults and heresies for the former, non-deistic belief systems and spirits for the latter), something PF2 has taken flack for a lack of support for. It could also finally deliver Neutral Champions, something I and others have wanted for ages.
The Inquisitor is an offense-focused divine character, to contrast with the Champion tank and the Cleric support, likely looking similar in places to the Magus, Ranger, and Investigator. Think of them as a holy super spy or a zealous assassin - I think it’s a thematic niche with w ton of breadth. Focus Spells are all but certain, while divine wave casting (hopefully with pilfering some more damaging spells from other lists) is a strong possibility.
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That does seem to cover Inquisitors quite well.
Of course, neither of our ideas would really work if Paizo has no interest in converting the Shaman class.
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In PF1, Shaman is more of a traditional spellcaster than the Medium is, so the big unknown is what sort of mechanic they would use for the Medium. Combining Medium with Shaman would mean that they decide to make the Medium more of a traditional spellcaster than it has ever been and basically give up on it having any distinct identity of its own. The ability to switch "classes" on a daily basis would be a lot to give up on.Inquisitor is another major missing class, but I am not sure what sort of theme they would use to include it. It seems to be a spontaneous divine caster (maybe along the lines of what they did for the Magus and the Summoner) that is somewhere between the Cleric and the Champion in theme. I can't see this class filling a book on its own, nor do I have any idea what theme they could make this class fit into in a larger book.
Like I said - supernatural intrigue. The Medium is the supernatural diplomat - making contact with the spiritual world, discovering what grievances the spirits might have and how to propitiate them, making deals, and providing a means of communication between the living an spiritual worlds that may have difficulty understandign each other otherwise.
The Intercessor is the hitman of the heavens (or the hells). Their role is to hunt down and eliminate the subtle, festering threats out there while they're still small enough to kill without undue attention. You could fit them both really easily into a book about the spiritual ecologies of Golarion - how spirits interact with, coexist with, and come into conflict with the living realm, with the two different classes being different approaches on how to handle that latter... and ones that can potentially work well together or come into conflict with one another in turn. Very spiritualist noir.
I could see either or both of them being wave casters. I could also see either/both having no spells at all but some other source of significant magically themed power (similar to the Thaumaturge). I think Intercessor needs to be at least melee-capable, while Medium should not be. I don't think that full caster really works for either one.
I'm honestly not clear on what the difference is between the Medium and Shaman.I'm honestly not sure how to articulate the differences between them because they have almost nothing in common whatsoever, other than that they both reference spirits, but even in that capacity they approach those ideas in pretty different ways.
I don't see a way possible to combine them while still retaining anything about their underlying identities.
Now, Paizo's already said they aren't really interested in converting the PF1 shaman, but I'm not really sure you could fit the new themes being discussed into a chassis that looks a lot like the Medium either.
I'll give it a try.
The Shaman spirit possesses or perhaps becomes your familiar and gives you extra spells. As I just described it, it would overlap a lot with the Witch.
The Medium spirit possesses you, and in return basically gives you most of your class abilities. Some very new mechanics would be needed here.
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That does seem to cover Inquisitors quite well.Of course, neither of our ideas would really work if Paizo has no interest in converting the Shaman class.
To be clear, it’s not that Paizo doesn’t want to make a Shaman, it’s that Michael Sayre wants to draw more on real-world shamanism than the 1e class for any 2e design. That’s the whole reason I want to see the Shaman get made - respectful takes on indigenous faiths are so, so rare in the fantasy space.
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I think Intercessor needs to be at least melee-capable, while Medium should not be.
Just personal opinion but that would be a complete dealbreaker for me on the Medium.
I think Intercessor needs to be at least melee-capable, while Medium should not be.Just personal opinion but that would be a complete dealbreaker for me on the Medium.
My favorite bit of 1e Medium stuff was the Mahwek ones who drew on Ulfen ancestor spirits and swung axes around. I’d be bummed to miss out on that.
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I also do want to have just the briefest moment of petty venting: I’m feeling pretty deflated by this Gen Con.
Treasure Vault, as a big equipment book, is pretty far from my interests - I’m just not that mechanics-driven. The Firebrands leave me pretty cold as a faction. Elemental stuff has never really gripped me when it comes to the planes. Potentially slowing down to 1 class a year with a class I don’t personally love is a little tough to swallow. Stolen Fate’s tarot/Harrow theme is a whiff for me.
I don’t think any of these are bad or boring releases at all, and I see a ton of excitement from other fans for all of these (which I adore - I’m so happy for the Kineticist fans!)… but it does mean I’m potentially looking at 6-8 months where I don’t care about Pathfinder 2e at all, and that’s a little bit sad.
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I’m potentially looking at 6-8 months where I don’t care about Pathfinder 2e at all, and that’s a little bit sad.
Well, there's apparently some pretty shiny stuff coming out of Battlezoo, if you like wacky ancestries...
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I hope something exciting comes from all these things for you Keiftu!!
Maybe it'll help to know that they are seemingly including real world cultural items in Treasure Vault. I believe they mentioned the addition of Tlingit armor, which will probably be great for the people of Arcadia. But, I could be mistaken about the word used when they mentioned it.
EDIT: Since Sanityfaerie mentioned it; I just want to say I saw a comic today of a Mimic taking the form of a damsel in distress, and now I reeeeeally hope we make the Doppleborn stretch goal and that the Mimic can take it.
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The Intercessor is the hitman of the heavens (or the hells).
I have to say, I like the name "Intercessor" a million times more than I like the name "Inquisitor". I liked the bundle of mechanics of the Inquisitor class, but very little else about it because of the connotations of the name and some of the names of the class mechanics.
I’m potentially looking at 6-8 months where I don’t care about Pathfinder 2e at all, and that’s a little bit sad.Well, there's apparently some pretty shiny stuff coming out of Battlezoo, if you like wacky ancestries...
I’m mostly here for Pathfinder’s canon lore, so sadly 3pp stuff doesn’t do much for me. I’m glad other folks are stoked for the Year of Monsters! Fingers crossed for their Minotaur to prompt an official take on the ancestry.
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I also do want to have just the briefest moment of petty venting: I’m feeling pretty deflated by this Gen Con.
Treasure Vault, as a big equipment book, is pretty far from my interests - I’m just not that mechanics-driven. The Firebrands leave me pretty cold as a faction. Elemental stuff has never really gripped me when it comes to the planes. Potentially slowing down to 1 class a year with a class I don’t personally love is a little tough to swallow. Stolen Fate’s tarot/Harrow theme is a whiff for me.
This is kind of where I was for the last year. Knights of Lastwall didn't sell me on the premise, nor did Book of the Dead, Blood Lords was a hard sell, I'm not a fan of low level 3 part APs without a high level companion, and I was pretty iffy on Guns and Gears.
But the actual books that came out, once I gave them a chance, are all pretty good.
I’m mostly here for Pathfinder’s canon lore, so sadly 3pp stuff doesn’t do much for me. I’m glad other folks are stoked for the Year of Monsters! Fingers crossed for their Minotaur to prompt an official take on the ancestry.I’m potentially looking at 6-8 months where I don’t care about Pathfinder 2e at all, and that’s a little bit sad.Well, there's apparently some pretty shiny stuff coming out of Battlezoo, if you like wacky ancestries...
They are as canon as you wish to make them since they all already exist in setting (except, arguably, sentient dungeons). Stheno in particular as essentially Pathfinder exclusive. Buuuut, I do get the sentiment.
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I was also pretty ho-hum about the treasure vault book, and Rage of Elements as the follow up leaves me wondering whether to take a break from the rulebooks for a while and switch my subcription over to the Lost Omens line. The first book of Blood Lords is fantastically written and so full of Geb life that I am now interested in the Impossible Lands book and the Travel guide after passing on Knights of Lastwall, Absalom and the Grand Bazzar.
Firebrands I am iffy on, because it seems like their most interesting deal as an organization was a commitment to ending slavery in Golarion and that seems like it is just going to happen behind the scenes now. Maybe this book is where the details of that are explained in an interesting way? Although it seems like Paizo might be doing that even more behind the scenes than will happen in Lost Omens Setting books and we will just hear more about the aftermaths. That said, I think Luis Loza put a lot of work into the initial development of the Firebrands so I am still ready to learn more about the book and be more won over.
Gatewalkers sounds interesting out of the gate, which is much more than I thought of Blood Lords before digging in to the first book, so that gives me some hope, and I will try to withhold judgement on Stolen Fate. Regardless of the content, I am going to keep getting the AP subscription because mechanically the APs are finally starting to feel like they understand the system and that makes them worth while for plundering NPCs, encounters and downtime systems from.
Vudra and Casmeron are absolutely desperate for attention and The Mwangi Expanse book has me believing that it can be done well. I hope we don't have to wait 5 more years for it to happen.
I will say I had no interest in Guns & Gears nor the Magus or the Summoner but Michael Sayre won me over on guns and the gunslinger and the design of Secrets of Magic was an absolute grand slam.
Firebrands I am iffy on, because it seems like their most interesting deal as an organization was a commitment to ending slavery in Golarion and that seems like it is just going to happen behind the scenes now.
My understanding was that the final conclusion was that they weren't necessarily going to end it - just that it was no longer going to be a focus of official Paizo products, or available for interaction in any meaningful way in PFS.
Of course, that would mean that it wouldn't be the focus of the Firebrands book either... which suggests that they might be looking for some other way to make that group interesting.
Admittedly, I'm not all that sure about this stuff. I could be utterly incorrect.
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I jumped the gun a little - Stolen Fate just had some reveals that have piqued my interest in it a fair bit. It apparently centers on building a demiplane for your party using Harrow magic, goes to “four or five continents,” and apparently features a lot of hints towards the next few years of Pathfinder.
I’m still a little frustrated to see the old Romani fortune-teller caricature played so straight in the art we’ve seen, though. My first thread on these forums was about how much I dislike the Varisians leaning hard into these stereotypes, and my feelings haven’t much changed.
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I jumped the gun a little - Stolen Fate just had some reveals that have piqued my interest in it a fair bit. It apparently centers on building a demiplane for your party using Harrow magic, goes to “four or five continents,” and apparently features a lot of hints towards the next few years of Pathfinder.
I’m still a little frustrated to see the old Romani fortune-teller caricature played so straight in the art we’ve seen, though. My first thread on these forums was about how much I dislike the Varisians leaning hard into these stereotypes, and my feelings haven’t much changed.
Apparently those pieces of art shown on stream are not the art orders for Stolen Fate, but merely the "mood" the AP is going for (so having the Romani art to show off the Harrow deck). Hopefully the new art orders won't be nearly as offensive.
