Gen Con 2022 Predictions


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Again, I do apologize. It was hardly my intention to make anyone feel any sort of way. The post was a blanket one, not meant to be directed at anyone or force anyone to defend themselves. And the statement was more an affirmation of how certain I was in that idea. All in all, it was meant to facilitate discussion on the matter, not attack anyone.

So I again apologize. If you don't feel as if I am sincere in that regard, than I can't do much about that. I'll leave it alone either way.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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No predictions, but I really hope we get more Book of the Dead-like stuff. That's probably my favorite release of Pathfinder 2e so far, and I'd love to see the pattern repeated with other monster types.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's been said to death on a ton of different platforms, but I would love more basic tools for characters. All the bonkers stuff that's been coming out lately is neat in its own way, but more apg like material would be very welcome, especially for the non core classes. I do understand that books going forward are theme books instead of general stuff, but hopefully there's a happy medium between super niche stuff and more widely used features.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

What kind of things would you like to see? Just a general grab bag of stuff like the APG was? Not trying to denigrate the idea, just get a better visual in my head. I actually think it is more workable than it might appear at first glance.

For my money, I think this would pay more dividends a little later down the road, as the “focus” could be “stuff that didn’t quite make it” for one or more of the themed books. Be it half baked ideas that needed a later set of development eyes before being ready (like a Drow or Dragon ancestry archetype), or stuff that was close to ready to go but they just didn’t have the page count to do, like Synthecist Summoner or more magical tattoos.

This would lend itself pretty readily to a Dark Archive-like format, with (perhaps) a class at the head of the book and multiple chapters, each repeating the focus of an earlier rulebook.

Mind, there doesn’t NEED a class for this, but it would be a great way to introduce something relatively random that doesn’t have a strong thematic tie to something in the pipeline. Or perhaps does have thematic tie…to a book already published. So you could sneak a Medium class into the Book of the Dead section, for example.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly a grab bag like apg would be amazing, but pretty sure the devs have said that's not happening anymore and theyre sticking with theme books.

I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum (and maybe it's just the one two of book of the dead and dark archive), but as fun and imaginative as recent player options are, they're very specific. Things like sleepwalking as an archetype or being a zombie are really fun, but don't fit most campaigns or builds I personally would be into. But archetypes around styles of play, like fighting styles, types of spells, skill feats, etc. Are a lot easier for me to get excited for. I like to think of a concept and look for options that work with it, but recent books make me feel like i have to make characters the other way around. See the very specific options and make a character around them.

Again, all just personal opinions and hopes. I am very aware there are a lot of people out there who loves the recent book style.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I kinda love the recent book style, they're very evocative, but I get the complaint too.

A lot of the things my players want are little things or expansions of existing concepts and it's also become one of the biggest tension points with some of them where "wait for more options to come out" starts to wear them down when those options don't really materialize thanks to way books are designed.

Like one of my players was interested in the Investigator, but had some hangups and decided to wait for more feats or a new methodology to get printed before trying the class out. Two years later they're still waiting, because the class hasn't gotten any (outside an AP specific capstone). I get why, and I don't necessarily agree with all of his hangups, but I can see why that would be a drag too.

I also think Paizo might be leaning a little too hard into archetypes as a replacement for class options. Archetypes are universal which is cool, but their mutual exclusivity means they kind of have diminishing returns, especially with a lot of archetypes being very thin or niche or both.

Aftermath feats are cool and I kinda hope Paizo considers adding more classless feat options in the future (like imo Pacts would have worked way better as just feats than an archetype).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

That is fairly valid actually. A lot of Archetypes have been rather niche lately. I almost wonder if it may tie into the lack of Class Paths to an extent, as certain ideas could be worked in there, but we have seen very little on that front as well.

What particular Archetypes would you like to see?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An easy way for me to get excited about an idea for an archetype is just to look at the list of traits on archives of nethys. There are a ton of traits that spring ideas to mind. A character based on: auras, cantrips, contingency, detection, diseases, fortune, light, metamagic, misfortune, minions... I'm not going to go through the whole list but it would be easy to come up with a lot of ideas that way. Even more if you make archetypes based on type of creatures (things like dragon disciple but for all sorts of famous creature types, elemental, giant, etc).


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The month's end new store pages have gone up, and really thrown a wrench into my theory.

Gatewalkers #3 seems to be entirely leaving the Broken Lands behind, which potentially means that my idea (that it was meant to act as a tour of the Broken Lands regions not getting their own APs later in 2023) is completely out the window. I'm not mad; the adventure sounds amazing, and is touching on some lore I'm suuuper curious about.

More interesting is the reveal of a Lost Omens release on the Firebrands, akin to what the Knights of Lastwall got this year. Hitting the five organizations featured in LOCG seems inevitable, so I'm not surprised that this exists, but I'm surprised 2023 is when we're seeing it.

KoL was thematically complemented by Book of the Dead in the rulebook line, but I'm a little less sure what might pair with the Firebrands - a big sailing/pirates/naval book, perhaps? It's also worth noting that the Impossible Lands aren't exactly a hub of Knights of Lastwall activity, so our big setting release doesn't have to be a playground for the Firebrands... but I've honestly got no clue, now.

Any big guesses? I'm honestly bewildered.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:

The month's end new store pages have gone up, and really thrown a wrench into my theory.

Gatewalkers #3 seems to be entirely leaving the Broken Lands behind, which potentially means that my idea (that it was meant to act as a tour of the Broken Lands regions not getting their own APs later in 2023) is completely out the window. I'm not mad; the adventure sounds amazing, and is touching on some lore I'm suuuper curious about.

More interesting is the reveal of a Lost Omens release on the Firebrands, akin to what the Knights of Lastwall got this year. Hitting the five organizations featured in LOCG seems inevitable, so I'm not surprised that this exists, but I'm surprised 2023 is when we're seeing it.

KoL was thematically complemented by Book of the Dead in the rulebook line, but I'm a little less sure what might pair with the Firebrands - a big sailing/pirates/naval book, perhaps? It's also worth noting that the Impossible Lands aren't exactly a hub of Knights of Lastwall activity, so our big setting release doesn't have to be a playground for the Firebrands... but I've honestly got no clue, now.

Any big guesses? I'm honestly bewildered.

The March rulebook release for next year is Treasure Vault. And given how pirate-adjacent the Firebrands are, having it paired with a big book of treasure is pretty spot on thematically!

Really happy about both GW3 and Firebrands. Can't wait to see what next year's GenCon release is gonna be!


if we get a pirate rulebook I'd be more than happy with that!


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I'm looking forward to the Firebrands getting their own book. I was honestly a bit confused and underwhelmed by them so I'm looking forward to a more thorough dive into them to help flesh out the group.


While the Thaumaturge certainly can fit, the Psychic is hardly a stereotypical Knight of Lastwall, and so I feel safe in assuming our playtest classes are not too Firebrand-y… but I honestly feel completely unsure of my guesses now!


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I mean, the first book devoted to one of the five organizations was "Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide" and that didn't really have any classes associated with it.

Liberty's Edge

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, the first book devoted to one of the five organizations was "Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide" and that didn't really have any classes associated with it.

Well, the iconic Inventor is a Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge

Inquisitor could really be a Firebrand class. Maybe even one of the best fit among the classes people wish for.


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The Raven Black wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, the first book devoted to one of the five organizations was "Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide" and that didn't really have any classes associated with it.
Well, the iconic Inventor is a Pathfinder.

The iconic alchemist, too.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, the first book devoted to one of the five organizations was "Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide" and that didn't really have any classes associated with it.
Well, the iconic Inventor is a Pathfinder.
The iconic alchemist, too.

Didn't Fumbus choose not to join, 'cause he wanted to prove himself to Droven first?


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The Raven Black wrote:
Inquisitor could really be a Firebrand class. Maybe even one of the best fit among the classes people wish for.

I’m honestly surprised by this take, and you know I’m a big Inquisitor gal; the fantasy skews pretty LN in my head, rather than CG. Who would a Firebrand Inquisitor follow - Milani? Cayden Cailean? Lubaiko?

Paizo Employee Senior Designer

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Ezekieru wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, the first book devoted to one of the five organizations was "Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide" and that didn't really have any classes associated with it.
Well, the iconic Inventor is a Pathfinder.
The iconic alchemist, too.
Didn't Fumbus choose not to join, 'cause he wanted to prove himself to Droven first?

That's right! Though now that they've been reunited and Fumbus finally brought Droven home to Absalom, maybe it's time for a comic about Fumbus's official initiation into the Society (I'm not hinting at anything other than my general desire for such a comic.)

Full stories here-

Meet the Iconics: Fumbus
Meet the Iconics: Droven
Wrecker's Reunion Part 1
Wrecker's Reunion Part 2
Wrecker's Reunion Part 3
Wrecker's Reunion Part 4


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Ezekieru wrote:
Didn't Fumbus choose not to join, 'cause he wanted to prove himself to Droven first?

Well, I was ninjaed on this one pretty thoroughly by The Man Himself, but....

Quote:
Months have passed and Droven has still not returned. Fumbus spends his time perfecting his alchemy, seeking news of his lost friend, and looking for opportunities to ingratiate himself to the Pathfinder Society, despite multiple assurances from the Society's members and leadership that Fumbus's welcome was already secured by his half-orc friend. Something in Fumbus's mind refuses to let go of the idea that he must prove himself to be a worthy explorer of the same caliber as Droven, whose heroics and skill are unmatched in Fumbus's view. The little goblin has made a decision that he holds sacrosanct: he will earn his entrance to the Society by either finding his friend Droven and bringing the half-orc home, or by performing a truly heroic act worthy of the reputation Droven holds in Fumbus's own eyes.

Given that at this point he has, in fact, found Droven and brought him home (and been spending quality time in the Pathfinder Society building since, doing things like breaking astrolabes) I'd figured his joining was pretty much achieved.


The Raven Black wrote:
Well, the iconic Inventor is a Pathfinder.

I think by the non-diagetic nature of Pathfinder Society the society needs to be a thing pretty much any class could join. But they didn't roll out a "PFSesque" class just go go with the Lost Omens book, since that's every class.

Though now I'm wondering what, if anything they're holding back to coincide with the Magaambya and Hellknight books (to round out the 5 organizations in the LOCG.)


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I don't know that I expect a full Magaambya book so long after Strength of Thousands.

We can safely assume that the Hellknight book would be saved for an Old Cheliax year, so that's one Meta-Region scratched off the guessing board for 2023. They seem to be bouncing between Avistan and Garund between years, so I sadly don't think the Golden Road is coming next either. They'll likely save the Eye of Dread book for whenever it's time to go punch Tar-Baphon, and presumably want a break from spooky stuff after 2022's Book of the Dead/Dark Archive/Blood Lords, so that's another one.

Assuming we're not facing down a total curveball like Arcadia or Tian Xia, that leaves the Broken Lands, the High Seas, the Saga Lands, or the Shining Kingdoms as our likely Lost Omens setting release. They might not announce it at Gen Con; the Impossible Lands book was only mentioned on accident last year, it seemed, but speculation is still fun.

Of those, the High Seas fit the Firebrands best - but again, the Knights of Lastwall aren't in the Impossible Lands, so there's not necessarily a link. Any thoughts, two days out from the con? I've lost a ton of faith in my primal book + Broken Lands theory.


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I'm predicting a new Primal Spellcaster of some kind. Each of the other traditions has two classes dedicated to it. Arcane has Wizard & Magus, Divine has Cleric & Oracle, and with the Dark Archive Occult has Bard & Psychic. But so far, the Druid is the only dedicated Primal spellcaster in the system.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If we get a new primal spellcaster, I hope it does something completely new to explore what the primal tradition can represent beyond simply being the druid spell list.

That said... both GnG and DA had upcoming playtest teasers posted like three weeks in advance and so far we haven't seen anything like that.

Liberty's Edge

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keftiu wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Inquisitor could really be a Firebrand class. Maybe even one of the best fit among the classes people wish for.
I’m honestly surprised by this take, and you know I’m a big Inquisitor gal; the fantasy skews pretty LN in my head, rather than CG. Who would a Firebrand Inquisitor follow - Milani? Cayden Cailean? Lubaiko?

I see the Inquisitor as a deity-backed James Bond (or any secret agent really) : skilled, attack-oriented and with divine power to strike at the enemies of their faith.

So, yes to all these 3 deities (I had Milani, Lubaiko and Calistria come to mind TBT).

And likely all the other deities that oppose oppression / promote freedom. Basically the who's who of Asmodeus' divine opponents.


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I mean, an Inquisitor that skews towards any particular alignment is a misfire, since the Inquisitor is supposed to be available to literally any deity, including the ones that make it extremely silly (I'm going to make another Inquisitor of Ng and no one can stop me.)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The High Seas is neither Avistan nor Garund, having something of both (with the remnants of Azlant and maybe touching on parts of Eastern Arcadia). It's also the region that would best fit with the Firebrands.


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Squiggit wrote:

If we get a new primal spellcaster, I hope it does something completely new to explore what the primal tradition can represent beyond simply being the druid spell list.

That said... both GnG and DA had upcoming playtest teasers posted like three weeks in advance and so far we haven't seen anything like that.

This is really surprising to me as well, given the heavy hinting we got at PaizoCon. Maybe they just didn’t want to deal with people thinking the playtest image is the Warlord a third time? :p


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I think Mark's leaving the company might make this a year with either a gap or a delay in holding a playtest for new classes. He did a lot of work on all of the previous playtests (starting with the PF2 playtest) and if the company takes a little time to make sure their process is remains rigorous and thorough on both the back end numbers and the feel of the classes, then I would rather wait another 6 months. Has anyone heard whether the company has brought in another mathematician to the development team?

It seems like have a treasure focused next rule book buys them some extra time for this, but I have no idea if the development team feels ready or not for another play test of new classes, which really should be the determining factor of when the next class playtest drops.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Paizo confirmed on Facebook that a class playtest would be announced on Thursday. It could be only a single class, it could be two like the last few. Not too long to wait now.


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Unicore wrote:

I think Mark's leaving the company might make this a year with either a gap or a delay in holding a playtest for new classes. He did a lot of work on all of the previous playtests (starting with the PF2 playtest) and if the company takes a little time to make sure their process is remains rigorous and thorough on both the back end numbers and the feel of the classes, then I would rather wait another 6 months. Has anyone heard whether the company has brought in another mathematician to the development team?

It seems like have a treasure focused next rule book buys them some extra time for this, but I have no idea if the development team feels ready or not for another play test of new classes, which really should be the determining factor of when the next class playtest drops.

Treasure Vault is coming in the same slot Book of the Dead did this year. I don’t think it’s reflective at all of some drastic playtesting-related shift internally at all.

Was Mark involved in the Dark Archive classes at all?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Unicore wrote:

I think Mark's leaving the company might make this a year with either a gap or a delay in holding a playtest for new classes. He did a lot of work on all of the previous playtests (starting with the PF2 playtest) and if the company takes a little time to make sure their process is remains rigorous and thorough on both the back end numbers and the feel of the classes, then I would rather wait another 6 months. Has anyone heard whether the company has brought in another mathematician to the development team?

It seems like have a treasure focused next rule book buys them some extra time for this, but I have no idea if the development team feels ready or not for another play test of new classes, which really should be the determining factor of when the next class playtest drops.

Treasure Vault is coming in the same slot Book of the Dead did this year. I don’t think it’s reflective at all of some drastic playtesting-related shift internally at all.

Was Mark involved in the Dark Archive classes at all?

He took lead on the thaumaturge.


Xethik wrote:
Paizo confirmed on Facebook that a class playtest would be announced on Thursday. It could be only a single class, it could be two like the last few. Not too long to wait now.

Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find one, but then again I don't really use FB.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Remember that we didn't get the dark archive playtest until late September last year. Part of that was because gencon was delayed, but still


Between the gatehopper AP, the treasure book and the freedom fighter group book, I'm not getting a strong theme so far. That being said, I don't know a whole lot about the firebrands and this year also had a big outlier with Quest for the Frozen Flame.

I'd say the primal book (shaman/shifter) is still a solid guess.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Paizo confirmed on Facebook that a class playtest would be announced on Thursday. It could be only a single class, it could be two like the last few. Not too long to wait now.
Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find one, but then again I don't really use FB.

Screenshot here


Xethik wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
Xethik wrote:
Paizo confirmed on Facebook that a class playtest would be announced on Thursday. It could be only a single class, it could be two like the last few. Not too long to wait now.
Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find one, but then again I don't really use FB.
Screenshot here

Thanks ^^


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:

Between the gatehopper AP, the treasure book and the freedom fighter group book, I'm not getting a strong theme so far. That being said, I don't know a whole lot about the firebrands and this year also had a big outlier with Quest for the Frozen Flame.

I'd say the primal book (shaman/shifter) is still a solid guess.

To be clear, Paizo's stated that the themes of Gatewalkers ties into the paranormal stuff they introduced in Dark Archive, so we shouldn't be necessarily looking at Gatewalkers for hints of the summer 2023 rulebook. More than likely the 3 part AP AFTER Gatewalkers, or the likely 6 part AP after that one will tie into the new rulebook.


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I would love an ap in either the land of the Linnorm Kings or a Treerazer ap or one in the Golarion Greek Islands for mythic


It’s the last day before the big day!

Hesitantly locking in my prediction for a primal book (Shaman + Kineticist) with a Broken Lands offering from the Lost Omens line. I’d love to be wrong and have an Inquisitor playtest and/or a surprise Arcadia book announcement, but I’m trying to stay a little less indulgent.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do we think there will be another lost omens announcement after the firebrands book that was just announced? I sort of doubt it but maybe

Wayfinders

For me it's some kind of primal book as well (with a reimagined+renamed kineticist, and a reimagined shaman), though I don't know if we're gonna hear about a Lost Omens region book yet (seeing how we just got the Firebrands stealth-reveal) - but whatever Adventure Path gets announced after Gatewalkers might give us a good hint, doubly so if it's in Tian Xia and reaffirms my theory from immediately after PaizoCon...


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Gaulin wrote:
Do we think there will be another lost omens announcement after the firebrands book that was just announced? I sort of doubt it but maybe

A formal announcement? Probably not.

Some clear hints? I hope so. They didn’t formally announce the Impossible Lands book last year, but it slipped out during a panel, and getting both Outlaws of Alkenstar and Blood Lords made it pretty clear.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
Gaulin wrote:
Do we think there will be another lost omens announcement after the firebrands book that was just announced? I sort of doubt it but maybe

A formal announcement? Probably not.

Some clear hints? I hope so. They didn’t formally announce the Impossible Lands book last year, but it slipped out during a panel, and getting both Outlaws of Alkenstar and Blood Lords made it pretty clear.

Ah I forgot that impossible lands slipped out.

Anyway knock on wood, but I would be extremely happy (and nervous until the actual playtest released) if kineticist was one of the classes announced for the next playtest. I do sort of doubt it, I don't have a reason really, but I get the feeling it won't be out for a while. Would love to be wrong.


I think the theory that the psychic was sort of a prototype kineticist, and that Paizo is letting psychic run around a bit and gage community reaction, holds water. That's the main reason I'm thinking we aren't getting a kineticist in the upcoming playtest.


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Perpdepog wrote:
I think the theory that the psychic was sort of a prototype kineticist, and that Paizo is letting psychic run around a bit and gage community reaction, holds water. That's the main reason I'm thinking we aren't getting a kineticist in the upcoming playtest.

Dontchu do it! Don't snatch away my hype and copium /s


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Gonna make more than one prediction and say we’ll see the Inquisitor this time around coupled with a divine, but reworked Shaman (think it’ll be divine because of the spirit + life as opposed to matter +life in SoM) Next year’ll be Kineticist + Shifter and in 2024 we’ll see APG2 or Mythic to mark the edition’s five year anniversary (:


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am going to guess that there will only be one class being playtested and it will be a primal/divine/touch of occultism removed from the spooky, hybrid book that focuses on animism and non-diety spiritualism. So we will get a shaman class, and a champion class archetype that removes the god and alignment focus and replaces it with causes to defend.


richienvh wrote:
Gonna make more than one prediction and say we’ll see the Inquisitor this time around coupled with a divine, but reworked Shaman (think it’ll be divine because of the spirit + life as opposed to matter +life in SoM) (:

it could also be occult, as that is the domain of spirits. Plus, the shaman wasn't really any closer to the body than the mind. I am predicting the shamans tradition will be dependent on its choice of spirit, like the witch or sorcerer. A spirit of say earth or animals would be primal, while a spirit of dreams or time could be occult, and a undead spirit could be divine. They could probably figure something out for arcane.

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