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The best Summon spell in the late game is usually Illusory Creature.
If your summon is going to die in one hit anyway, it might as well have an actual AC and attack bonus.
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In my experience, summon spells can be extremely useful out of combat if you spend enough time in the creature section. In combat.... not so much.
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So any actual questions on SoM? or just a random debate about summons effectiveness popping into this thread
So any actual questions on SoM? or just a random debate about summons effectiveness popping into this thread
Yeah, sorry about that ^^. Anyway, any more really cool permanent items apart from the signet?
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Hint: An aid action requires a reaction and summoned monster with the minion trait can't use reactions.
Am I wrong about this or did I miss something?
Uhm... oops... On re-reading the rules, it seems like we did it wrong then. :(
Oh dear, that is gonna change a few things. I mean, it would be a sensible house-rule to make summons more useful I guess. Better talk to our GM about that then...
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Hint: An aid action requires a reaction and summoned monster with the minion trait can't use reactions.
Am I wrong about this or did I miss something?
Uhm... oops... On re-reading the rules, it seems like we did it wrong then. :(
Oh dear, that is gonna change a few things. I mean, it would be a sensible house-rule to make summons more useful I guess. Better talk to our GM about that then...
I've done quite a few things wrong myself. That's why I asked. There's a lot of little rules interactions all over the book to remember.
But it would have been at least a good use for summons if it worked. A sustainable +2 to one attack that stacks wouldn't have been bad.
So summoner dedication doesn't give access to the tandem move and tandem attack feat right?
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So any actual questions on SoM? or just a random debate about summons effectiveness popping into this threadYeah, sorry about that ^^. Anyway, any more really cool permanent items apart from the signet?
Spellhearts are pretty cool as a new item type in general.
They affix to wep or armor like a talisman but they're not single use and don't burn out. They give a passive effect and a cantrip at lvl 3 and then at high level they grant spells. You use the spellheart dc or your dc if it's higher.
The Flaming Star Spellheart lvl 3
Affix armor - fire resistance
affix wep - after casting a fire spell from the star wep does fire dmg until next end of next turn.
cantrip - produce flame
the major one(12th) lets you cast fireball at 4th level and wall of fire.
Would be good for a magus i think.
a different one gives you a fly speed after casting from it.
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Uhm... oops... On re-reading the rules, it seems like we did it wrong then. :(Hint: An aid action requires a reaction and summoned monster with the minion trait can't use reactions.
Am I wrong about this or did I miss something?
Join the club. At one time I thought Aid was a good use of a familiar... :P
What do the higher leveled Evolutions look like?
What do the higher leveled Evolutions look like?
Level 14 gets you a Fly speed or a +1 status bonus to all saving throws VS magic. Level 16 gets you either Trample, or a +2 circumstance bonus to Perception, can't be flanked by creatures of a lower level, can see invisible creatures and objects (they are concealed), AND can auto-try to disbelieve an illusion when said illusion is within 30 feet. Level 18 makes it so your Eidolon has a spell slot from 1 to 7 (which you can cast yourself if you pick up the Level 14 Share Eidolon Magic feat). No Evolution feats at Level 20.
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From what I've gathered so far, Runelord has a 2nd level skillfeat allowing you to insert Aeon Stones into your skin/body and a 4th(?) Level class feat allowing you to act as a Wayfinder, i.e. activate their Resonance abilities.
Is there any limit to either of those feats? Other than (I assume) investment, of course.
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From what I've gathered so far, Runelord has a 2nd level skillfeat allowing you to insert Aeon Stones into your skin/body and a 4th(?) Level class feat allowing you to act as a Wayfinder, i.e. activate their Resonance abilities.
Is there any limit to either of those feats? Other than (I assume) investment, of course.
Investment, the skill feat needs you to be trained in Crafting, embedding the aeon stone is a Downtime activity (1 day), and the 4th level one requires the 2nd level one. You can embedd multiple aeon stones in yourself, but you can only benefit from 1 at a time, chosen at the start of each day. You can take the 4th level feat again at 8th level to let you use up to 4 aeon stones at once instead of one (you'd need to invest in all four of those, too).
That sounds decidedly less interesting than I had hoped...
Ah well, if nothing else it's at least a good way to pay off the archetype by level 4 so you can get another dedication at 6.
Thanks!
Can you provide more information about fey eidolons and their advancement paths? I've heard of redcap or unicorn eidolons but I might be confusing this with something else, but if not, would love to hear more about that.
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Can you provide more information about fey eidolons and their advancement paths? I've heard of redcap or unicorn eidolons but I might be confusing this with something else, but if not, would love to hear more about that.
Trickster Fey: 12/18/12/12/8/16
Skirmisher Fey: 14/18/14/10/10/12Abilities of both are equal, only change the stats. Fey gift that gives the enchantment and Illusion from Arcane and 2 cantrips, Fey Mischief that grants the feat that gives a few spell slots and Fey chicanery that gives you a free contingency spell.
Can you provide more information about fey eidolons and their advancement paths? I've heard of redcap or unicorn eidolons but I might be confusing this with something else, but if not, would love to hear more about that.Trickster Fey: 12/18/12/12/8/16
Skirmisher Fey: 14/18/14/10/10/12Abilities of both are equal, only change the stats. Fey gift that gives the enchantment and Illusion from Arcane and 2 cantrips, Fey Mischief that grants the feat that gives a feat that gives a few spell slots and Fey chicanery that gives you a free contingency spell.
Many thanks Kyrone! This info makes me happy and I'm already thinking about character concepts!
I don't have SoM yet, but I understand that custom staves can only have spells that share one trait. I've put together a breakdown of spells with each trait to help people design their staves.
But I've recently seen suggestions on Reddit that some of these traits, like Attack and Incapacitation are disallowed. I'd appreciate it if those with the book could confirm if these, or any other traits on this list, are not allowed for custom staves. I'll remove them to avoid confusion.
Air
Acid
Attack
Auditory
Aura
Chaotic
Cold
Consecration
Curse
Darkness
Death
Detection
Disease
Earth
Electricity
Emotion
Evil
Extradimensional
Fear
Fire
Force
Fortune
Good
Healing
Incapacitation
Lawful
Light
Linguistic
Mental
Misfortune
Morph
Move
Negative
Olfactory
Poison
Polymorph
Positive
Possession
Prediction
Revelation
Scrying
Sleep
Sonic
Teleportation
Visual
Water
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I don't have SoM yet, but I understand that custom staves can only have spells that share one trait. I've put together a breakdown of spells with each trait to help people design their staves.
But I've recently seen suggestions on Reddit that some of these traits, like Attack and Incapacitation are disallowed. I'd appreciate it if those with the book could confirm if these, or any other traits on this list, are not allowed for custom staves. I'll remove them to avoid confusion.
** spoiler omitted **
The only ones explicitly disallowed for being too broad are incapacitation, and tradition + school traits. The rest is listed as up to gm, but "Attack" is likely too broad, the examples are traits like fire,light,shadow etc
The only ones explicitly disallowed for being too broad are incapacitation, and tradition + school traits. The rest is listed as up to gm, but "Attack" is likely too broad, the examples are traits like fire,light,shadow etcI don't have SoM yet, but I understand that custom staves can only have spells that share one trait. I've put together a breakdown of spells with each trait to help people design their staves.
But I've recently seen suggestions on Reddit that some of these traits, like Attack and Incapacitation are disallowed. I'd appreciate it if those with the book could confirm if these, or any other traits on this list, are not allowed for custom staves. I'll remove them to avoid confusion.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks! I've removed incapacitation. I also never included rarity traits since those didn't make sense to me.
Mental has an absurd number of options. If I were disallow any other traits as too general, that would be first on my list.
Along with attack, the sensory traits - olfactory, auditory, and visual - also seem kind of general to me.
Were any new specific staves added in the book?
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If we can still actually ask questions in this thread: do the various eiodolon base forms stipulate exactly what kind(s) of attacks they have? Or does the player get to choose how their attacks are represented mechanically?
Mechanically they're all treated as unarmed attacks, but you can explicitly choose their form (including weapon-based forms).
Specific Eidolons have a 'suggested attacks' block that'll tell you what a certain type of eidolon might typically use, but that doesn't enforce any rules it's just a suggestion.
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If we can still actually ask questions in this thread: do the various eiodolon base forms stipulate exactly what kind(s) of attacks they have? Or does the player get to choose how their attacks are represented mechanically?
There are 4 different primary attacks to pick from with different traits, all secondary attacks are d6 agile finesse. What the attacks look like is up to player.
are any of those attacks ranged?
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are any of those attacks ranged?
Ranged eidolon attacks come from a level 2 feat
It gains a ranged unarmed attack with a range increment of 30 feet that deals 1d4 damage and has the magical and propulsive traits. When you select this feat, choose a damage type: acid, bludgeoning, cold, electricity, fire, negative, piercing, positive, or slashing. If your eidolon is a celestial, fiend, or monitor with an alignment other than true neutral, you can choose a damage type in its alignment.
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...could a tiny Summoner summon it's eidolon into it's own square?
RAW seems to indicate that eidolons must appear adjacent. I don't see an issue with the eidolon using its action to pick up the sprite and dropping them somewhere on their body though.
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I assume eidilons are still using d8 and d4 agile attacks with no options for weapon traits
Not necessarily. You can choose multiple options for your primary attack.
D8 and you choose one trait out of disarm, nonlethal, shove, or trip.
D6 can be fatal d10, forceful & sweep together, or deadly d8 & finesse together.
As others have mentioned, secondary is always d6 agile & finesse.
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For the purposes of spells that affect "you" - does that apply to both Summoner and Eidolon simultaneously?
It doesn't look like it. A number of spells actually call out targeting your Eidolon or companion. There is also a lot written that distinguishes whether something affects the Eidolon or Summoner.
Given that I've not seen anything saying that you can target your Eidolon with personal spells and the amount of effort they make to distinguish the Eidolon as its own being I don't believe you can target them with personal spells.
That said, I am surprised that didn't make it in as a feat at least. A little bummed about that myself.
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Here is the Playtest text for Eidolon.
You have a connection with a powerful and otherworldly entity called an eidolon, and you can use your life force as a conduit to manifest the eidolon into the mortal world. An eidolon is a being formed of ephemeral essences—typically mind, life, or spirit—that needs your body and connection to this world to manifest.
Choose what type of eidolon you have from the options beginning on page 18. In this playtest, the options available (and the spellcasting tradition each option grants you) are angel (divine), beast (primal), devotion phantom (occult), and dragon (arcane). When you choose your eidolon, you also determine their appearance and general form within the parameters for that particular type of eidolon. Once you establish your eidolon’s type and general appearance, these features can’t later be changed.
The link between you and your eidolon takes the form of a magic glowing sigil on each of your bodies. This symbol can’t be obscured either magically or via mundane means, as it either shines through the magic or appears over top of whatever you use to cover it. This sigil, combined with the way that the two of you clearly act in tandem, makes it readily apparent to an intelligent observer that the two of you have some connection with each other, even if that onlooker doesn’t know what a summoner or an eidolon is.
Your eidolon is no mere minion; the two of you share the same life force and work together as equals. You and your eidolon share your actions, your Hit Points, and your multiple attack penalty. Each round, you can use any of your actions and reaction for yourself or your eidolon. Damage taken by either you or the eidolon reduces your Hit Points, while healing either of you restores your Hit Points. If you or your eidolon is affected by anything that would change a creature’s actions, it affects your shared actions. In any case, if you are both subject to the same effect, you take the effects only once (applying the worse effect, if applicable).
For instance, if you and your eidolon are caught in an area effect that would heal or damage you both, only the greater amount of healing or damage applies. Similarly, if you or your eidolon is slowed, you would start your turn with fewer actions, but even if you were both slowed, it wouldn’t increase the effect. However, if you were slowed 1 and your eidolon slowed 2, you’d have 2 fewer actions because that’s the more severe effect.
This life link doubles as a conduit that allows you to manifest your eidolon in this world. You gain the Manifest Eidolon activity, allowing you to make your eidolon appear at your side.
Your eidolon doesn’t have the summoned or minion trait, but the conduit that allows them to manifest is also a tether between you. They must remain within 100 feet of you at all times and can’t willingly go beyond that limit. If forced beyond this distance, or if you’re reduced to 0 Hit Points, your eidolon’s physical form dissolves, and you need to use Manifest Eidolon to manifest them again.
Your connection also allows you to communicate with your eidolon telepathically at all times, even when they aren’t manifested. This ability lets you coordinate your actions with your eidolon to accomplish more than either of you could alone. You gain the Act Together and Share Senses actions.
While your eidolon can’t wear or use magic items except for companion items that specifically mention that they work for eidolons, their connection to you means they benefit from certain items once you invest in those items. Your eidolon gains item bonuses to Perception and skills from any magical items you’ve invested, as well as the benefits of the potency and resilient runes on your armor or the item bonuses of any bracers of armor you’ve invested. Your eidolon benefits from the potency, striking, and property runes on your handwraps of mighty blows, and you can Invest a single magic weapon to share the benefits of those runes from the weapon as well, even though you normally can’t Invest a magic weapon.
Did the text change?
I would argue the opposite, and substantiate that claim citing the fourth paragraph as evidence.
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Here is the Playtest text for Eidolon.
** spoiler omitted **...
The text has changed but not by substantial amounts. That said, I don't see anything in the fourth paragraph or otherwise that would say you can target the Eidolon with spells with the target of "you." It gives specific things you share, but you and the Eidolon are separate beings. Seems odd they would list all those things specifically if they meant for the Summoner and Eidolon to be considered the same being.
Is there some fun gish oriented spells?
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Is there some fun gish oriented spells?
Fun? Plenty.
Blazing Dive
Arcane, primal. 3rd level
Fly 15ft, then fly in a straight line to an empty space on the ground within 60ft. After landing deal 3d4 bludgeoning and 3d6 fire in a 10ft AoE. Damage scales.
Blink Charge
Arcane, divine, occult. 5th level
Teleport up to 60ft to an adjacent enemy and attack. Deal extra force damage on hit. Damage and distance scales.
Flowing Strike
Arcane primal. 5th level
Surf a wave up to 50ft. Movement doesn't provoke reactions. Strike at any point during the stride and deal extra bludgeoning and push 10ft on hit.
Among others
Ranged eidolon attacks come from a level 2 feat
Are there more feats that further upgrade that attack? Like adding more traits and whatnot?
I heard about increasing eidolon size and reach is a thing. Any unarmed attacks have reach or feats that add it? I wonder how much reach I can stack on it.
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Ranged eidolon attacks come from a level 2 featAre there more feats that further upgrade that attack? Like adding more traits and whatnot?
I heard about increasing eidolon size and reach is a thing. Any unarmed attacks have reach or feats that add it? I wonder how much reach I can stack on it.
Plant eidolon's first ability is to extend melee strike range by 5ft. There are two size increase feats. The first, at level 8 increases base range to 10ft. The second is at 12 and increases it to 15ft. So the plant has 20ft reach at level 12 but is also huge.
Nothing upgrades the ranged attack as far as I can see.
Blink Charge
Arcane, divine, occult. 5th level
Teleport up to 60ft to an adjacent enemy and attack. Deal extra force damage on hit. Damage and distance scales.Flowing Strike
Arcane primal. 5th level
Surf a wave up to 50ft. Movement doesn't provoke reactions. Strike at any point during the stride and deal extra bludgeoning and push 10ft on hit.Just to confirm, those are weapon strikes?
sounds good for multiclass martials.
Yes, melee weapon strikes.
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Ranged eidolon attacks come from a level 2 featAre there more feats that further upgrade that attack? Like adding more traits and whatnot?
I heard about increasing eidolon size and reach is a thing. Any unarmed attacks have reach or feats that add it? I wonder how much reach I can stack on it.
Plant eidolon's first ability is to extend melee strike range by 5ft. There are two size increase feats. The first, at level 8 increases base range to 10ft. The second is at 12 and increases it to 15ft. So the plant has 20ft reach at level 12 but is also huge.
Nothing upgrades the ranged attack as far as I can see.
Don't forget the Plant Eidolon's 7th level ability gives it reach. Also, the first level ability extends that attack by 5 feet, but not for threatening purposes. So for permanent buffs the plant Eidolon gets:
10 ft at 7, 15 ft. at 8, 20 ft at 12 to threaten. However it can attack 5 feet further than that at each of those levels. So at lvl 12 the plant eidolon can effectively attack a creature 25 feet away.
The real downside though is that a huge creature is very limited in a dungeon crawl. Hate that you have to take a feet at level 4 to be able to shrink them down as needed if you do plan to take those feets.
Is there some fun gish oriented spells?Fun? Plenty.
Blazing Dive
Arcane, primal. 3rd level
Fly 15ft, then fly in a straight line to an empty space on the ground within 60ft. After landing deal 3d4 bludgeoning and 3d6 fire in a 10ft AoE. Damage scales.Blink Charge
Arcane, divine, occult. 5th level
Teleport up to 60ft to an adjacent enemy and attack. Deal extra force damage on hit. Damage and distance scales.Flowing Strike
Arcane primal. 5th level
Surf a wave up to 50ft. Movement doesn't provoke reactions. Strike at any point during the stride and deal extra bludgeoning and push 10ft on hit.Among others
Damn, Magus can't have enough slots for all of that ! xD
Thanks for the reach info. Sounds like a lot of fun albeit limited to one Eidolon type.
And yeah, if Evolution Surge remained intact from the playtest, being locked into a size shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Is there some fun gish oriented spells?Fun? Plenty.
Blazing Dive
Arcane, primal. 3rd level
Fly 15ft, then fly in a straight line to an empty space on the ground within 60ft. After landing deal 3d4 bludgeoning and 3d6 fire in a 10ft AoE. Damage scales.Blink Charge
Arcane, divine, occult. 5th level
Teleport up to 60ft to an adjacent enemy and attack. Deal extra force damage on hit. Damage and distance scales.Flowing Strike
Arcane primal. 5th level
Surf a wave up to 50ft. Movement doesn't provoke reactions. Strike at any point during the stride and deal extra bludgeoning and push 10ft on hit.Among others
Damn, Magus can't have enough slots for all of that ! xD
The bad news is that with magi slots as limited as they are you need to choose between fun and practical. Spells like these are best suited for multiclass dedication slots if anything.
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Thanks for the reach info. Sounds like a lot of fun albeit limited to one Eidolon type.
And yeah, if Evolution Surge remained intact from the playtest, being locked into a size shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Evolution Surge is the same in that it can make you large and eventually huge with the reach so you don't have to take the feats. However, the feats let you get there without using a focus point or 2 actions in a fight (only lasts 1 minute)
That said, yes I do believe using Evolution Surge is better in the grand scheme because if you make them large/huge permanently and didn't take the lvl 4 feat to shrink them down, you could end up in a place where your Eidolon is useless. In that case your character is in a VERY bad spot as most of the Summoner's power budget is in the Eidolon.