Multiple stances doesn't boost damage, so not sure why people want that. It's a cool style thing, but it should probably be an innate monk ability than something they have to spend feats on considering it is such a minor, almost insignificant power boost.
I'm with Deriven Firelion on this and I agree with his assessment that FoB be one of the main things that gets tweaked. Something like a level 7 class feature that mimics Flurry Ranger in that FoB MAP is –3 (–2 with an agile weapon) on the second attack. Then at level 1 the class feature upgrades so that both attacks in FoB use the current MAP.
Sorry I meant level 11 not level 1 for both FOB attacks to use current MAP
Multiple stances doesn't boost damage, so not sure why people want that. It's a cool style thing, but it should probably be an innate monk ability than something they have to spend feats on considering it is such a minor, almost insignificant power boost.
I'm with Deriven Firelion on this and I agree with his assessment that FoB be one of the main things that gets tweaked. Something like a level 7 class feature that mimics Flurry Ranger in that FoB MAP is –3 (–2 with an agile weapon) on the second attack. Then at level 1 the class feature upgrades so that both attacks in FoB use the current MAP.
Looking at other classes, you're right about crit specialization so I think crit specialization with Unarmed Strikes should be a level 5 class feature so it matches when Fighters, Barbarians, etc get it.
I understand what you're saying about mobility enhancing feats being too powerful as class features although I do think that Dancing Leaf should be a class feature. I can be won over to what you're saying re: combining them and I'd make the combined Water Step + Wall Run available at level 6.
I love Monks. Of my last five characters, 4 have been different kinds of Monks. Some things on my wish list for Monks Remastered are:
• FoB getting an upgrade as a level 5 class feature that allows the two FoB strikes both use the current MAP as Themetricsystem suggests. By making this a class feature it can’t be poached by others gaining FoB via Archetype dedication so Monks are “better” at FoB than a Fighter with FoB via Monk Archetype
• Ki Strike and Ki Rush are combined into a single focus spell that allows one to do one or the other (but not both) when the focus point is spent. Call it something like Tap Ki.
• Ki Strike damage scales like Rogue’s Precision damage and if that’s too aggressive make Ki Strike damage be a 1d8 and have it scale like Precision Ranger’s Precision damage.
• Monastic Weaponry is a class feature at level 1
• Crit Specialization with Unarmed Strikes is a class feature at level 1
• Brawling Focus can then be reworked (and renamed) that gives crit specialization with Monk Weapons
• If the devs want mobility to be the Monk’s schtick, then certain Monk feats that enhance mobility should be made class features such as Dancing Leaf, Guarded Mobility, Wall Run, Winding Flow. These can become class features at the same level as their current feat levels. Full disclosure, based on my game play experience, I don’t think the Monk’s extra speed is a major feature/boon like the devs seem to think it is, but turning some of the mobility feats into class features could help make the Monk’s mobility something special and unique to them.
• Agree that Stance Savant and Master of Many Styles come on waaaaaaay too late. I’d like to see Stance Savant as a level 4 Feat and Master of Many Styles a level 8 or 10 feat.
Thank you Guntermunch and Darksol. I realize I was also reading Dangerous Sorcery incorrectly and erroneously inserting the "if your next action is cast a spell" clause. But since it's much simpler with just "when you cast a spell from your spell slots" it's exactly as Darksol described
I have a Fighter/Eldritch Archer with Sorcery FA. Let's say I chose to use a sorcery spell slot to cast Shocking Grasp with my Eldritch Shot ability. My reading is that the use of Shocking Grasp in this scenario doesn't trigger Dangerous Sorcery and thus I don't add extra damage should my Eldritch Shot it because the cast a spell action is a subordinate action of Eldritch Shot. Is this correct?
Let's say I have an Int-based Elf Psychic who took Otherwordly Magic to get Produce Flame. At level 2, the Psychic takes Ancestral Mind.
Does Produce Flame effectively turn into a Psi Cantrip via Ancestral Mind? Or does Ancestral Mind just make the Produce Flame an Occult spell with which I can use Int as the casting stat instead of Cha?
Thank you all for your responses. Thank you @breithauptclan for the breakdown as that made it very clear. It's what I thought it was and not the broader 'any Perform' check I was hoping for :)
I have a battledancer swashbuckler close to leveling to 10. I'm having a hard time understanding what Derring Do applies to.
I understand that it applies to Tumble Through and Performance checks when I use Fascinating Performance. I assume it applies to Performance checks when I use Leading Dance too (although I'm not even sure this is true). What I'm wondering is does it apply to any Performance check I make? The parenthetical "...any skill actions listed in your swashbuckler's style" makes me wonder.
I guess what I'm wondering is what is the range of actions Derring Do applies to.
I'm putting together a character for a new campaign. He's a human with an 8 Intelligence (I'm using voluntary flaws for backstory reasons). I've never played such a low INT character so I'm not sure if he starts with 2 languages or just 1 language. Here's my reasoning for each possibility. What do you all think is the correct interpretation of the rules.
2 Languages - under the Human ancestry entry it states Humans start with Common and "Additional languages equal to 1 + your Intelligence modifier (if it's positive)" Since my mod isn't positive, I don't add the -1 modifier from my 8 INT and thus I get the "Additional language equal to 1"
1 language - The "+ your Intelligence modifier" takes precedent over the parenthetical which means my -1 modifier does negate the additional 1 language
As I think about it more, I believe the 2 languages reading is correct because otherwise I'd have to completely ignore the modifying phrase "if it's positive". But my GM can have strange reasonings at times and I want more than my word and a reading that benefits me to back me up.
Thanks aobst128. The more I study that clause the more I think it *must* be the case that I can choose the directionality because:
1) I can choose any square adjacent to the target as the source AND
2) the target must be in the area
So if I'm 30 feet south of the target, and I choose the square to the left of the target and it needs to be in the area, by definition, the cone/line is moving from left to right (aka east to west).
I plan on playing a Starlit Span Magus and am looking at Expansive Spellstrike as my 2nd level feat which opens up some nice cone and line AEO spells. With that said, does the feat allow me choose the direction of the cone/line (e.g. sideways/backwards wrt to the target of my Strike) or must it always move "away from me" (i.e. direction is unaffected just the origin point is the target of my Strike as opposed to me)?
Basically, I'm wondering if the following clause "if you're not adjacent to the target (using a reach weapon or starlit span, for example), choose any square adjacent to the target as the source" allows me to choose the directionality of my cones/lines?
Thanks Graystone. If the familiar had Independent and Manual Dexterity and I'd be willing and able to wait a few rounds for my item, my familiar could get me that scroll and place it in my hand. Correct?
But if I'm looking for economy of action and needed things pronto, then Valet is the way to go.
So I understand that a familiar with Manual Dexterity isn't able to pour a potion into my mouth or the mouth of an ally because to do so requires the ability to activate the potion and familiars can't activate items.
My question is can said familiar with Manual Dexterity grab a scroll from my quiver of scrolls and place it my hand?
Imagine I have a Starlit Span Magus with a wizard dedication via the free archetype rules ('cause my GM is awesome that way). And let's say that at level 10, I'm thinking of taking Advanced Arcana for Bespell Weapon. So here's my question:
Does the non-cantrip spell I cast via Spellstrike serve as an appropriate trigger for Bespell Weapon?
I think the answer is no because the cast a spell action is a subordinate action of spellstrike.
But on the off chance that the answer is yes, do I get the extra damage from bespell weapon on the spellstrike itself or just on a normal strike I make before the end of my turn (which admittedly would be a -10 MAP).
Can you provide more information about fey eidolons and their advancement paths? I've heard of redcap or unicorn eidolons but I might be confusing this with something else, but if not, would love to hear more about that.
Trickster Fey: 12/18/12/12/8/16
Skirmisher Fey: 14/18/14/10/10/12
Abilities of both are equal, only change the stats. Fey gift that gives the enchantment and Illusion from Arcane and 2 cantrips, Fey Mischief that grants the feat that gives a feat that gives a few spell slots and Fey chicanery that gives you a free contingency spell.
Many thanks Kyrone! This info makes me happy and I'm already thinking about character concepts!
Can you provide more information about fey eidolons and their advancement paths? I've heard of redcap or unicorn eidolons but I might be confusing this with something else, but if not, would love to hear more about that.
Can you describe the two monk stances and any follow on feats that support those stances? Thanks!
water is 1d6 finesse, disarm, agile, trip, unarmed, water, nonlethal. +1 circumstance to Athletics checks to Disarm, swim, trip and +2 bonus to Reflex save to avoid disarm/trip
lvl 8 - Reaction where you're hit by something you can see in reach. Step and then do a Disarm or Trip on the person that hit you.
lvl 12 - 2 action, Trip every creature in a 10ft emanation.
Fire is 1d8 slashing, forceful, nonlethal, sweep, unarmed.*if you have crit spec they do 1d6 persistent fire on crit instead of normal. Speed bonus.
6- Gain cold and fire resistance equal to half level. any creature that hits you with unarmed, or grab/grapple or touches you takes fire dmg = WIS mod.
10 - 3 actions - stride 2x make Strikes on up to 4 different creatures within reach at any point during movement. Attacks do fire instead of slashing.
Thanks Vlorax, Interesting that water is agile + finesse but fire is not. Thematically I guess that makes sense and I'm liking that level 8 reaction for water and the level 13 trip burst. It pushes towards Str as secondary stat and boosting Athletics to expert and beyond as soon as you can....yeah...ideas are already forming :)
I went with Rogue FA for my Monk (Stumbling Stance naturally). Sneak Attacker provides great synergy and Mobility, as Deriven Firelion notes, is amazing on a monk especially as you get faster and faster. Skill Mastery also opens up some nice avenues for both combat and encounter-focused prowess.
Thanks for the detailed explanation shroudb. That really helps.
I went back and re-read Cooperative Soul and even if I could use it with Inspire Courage (for example with the scenario you describe above) it wouldn't get me anything extra since Inspire Competence already gets you an automatic success on the Aid check (except on critical fails that is, then Cooperative Soul would kick in)
Also what, if any, interaction is their between Cooperative Soul and Inspire Courage? Let's say I'm not an expert in Athletics but am an expert in Performance. Can I apply Inspire Courage to use Performance in place of Athletics to Aid an ally in tripping?
@Unicore, I'm glad you liked the Death Roll idea. Along those lines, I'd like to suggest the following as a way to expand on the Bikanga Crocodile Stance feat tree. NOTE: the below is inspired by Tiger Rend (feat 8), Disrupt Ki (feat 12) and Mountain Quake (feat 14)
Crocodile Death Grip Feat 12 or 14
Monk
Reaction
Prerequisite: Death Roll
Requirement: You are in Crocodile Stance and a target you have applied the grabbed condition to uses the Escape action to get out of the grab
Whether or not the target succeeds in its attempt to Escape your grab it takes persistent Bleed damage equal to your Strength modifier. If it critically fails, the persistent Bleed damage it takes equals 1d4 + your Strength modifier.
Special: If you have this feat, you gain a Swim speed equal to your Speed while using Crocodile Stance
Monk is my favorite class and since 2e has come out, I've exclusively played various monk builds in 4 different campaigns. From my POV, this is a well-balanced level 1 stance feat. I can image a 2-action level 6 companion feat that gives a free grab after a successful strike to up the crocodile flavor. Something like the following which is modelled after Wolf Drag
Crocodile Death Roll - Feat 6
Monk
2-action
Prerequisite: Crocodile Stance
Requirement: You are in Crocodile Stance
Make a crocodile maw Strike. Your crocodile maw gains the fatal d12 for this Strike, and if the attack succeeds, you grab the target. The target remains grabbed until the end of your next turn or until it Escapes, whichever comes first.
This build focuses on monk feats that give out-of-turn retaliatory attacks (i.e. Crane Flutter and Arrow Snatching)
build:
Suggested Starting Stat Array
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 10
Boost Dex, Str, Con, every time
Boost Int if you want more skills/languages/better at Int-based recall knowledge checks
Boost Cha if you want to be more of a face or go down the Intimidation route (I like the Intimidation route here which gives our monk another option for what to do with her 3rd action)
Boost Wis for better perception and Will save
1 Crane Stance
2 Stunning Fist or Brawling Focus (I have a very slight preference for BF on this build)
3
4 Deflect Arrow
5
6 Crane Flutter
7
8 Arrow Snatching
9
10 Open
11
12 Open
13
14 Open
15
16 Open
17
18 Open
19
20 Open (but not Impossible Technique because that’s a reaction so competes with Crane Flutter and Arrow Snatching)
You only get one reaction per round so you’ll need to decide if you’re going to Crane Flutter or Deflect Arrow + Arrow Snatching. Truth be told, it’s likely going to be Crane Flutter more often than not since we're a melee martial. Arrow Snatching is there to cover those instances when we aren't in melee range (yet) and are getting peppered by enemy fire.
The build comes together at level 8 so it can be taken in a number of directions after that. If I wanted to stay with a non-mystical fighter, I’d make sure I was increasing Athletics as quickly as possible and probably go Whirling Throw @10, Crushing Grab @12, Flurry of Maneuver @14, Shattering Strike @16, Sleeper Hold @18, and Deadly Strikes @20. And If I wanted to explore ki spells, I'd take Ki Strike @10, Wholeness of Body @12, and Meditative Focus @14, I'd probably fit in Ki Jump or Ki Form too.
My first stab at this accidentally treated Medic’s Treat Condition and Holistic Care as class feats instead of skill feats. This build corrects for that earlier mistake.
build:
I like Human or Half-elf because I like Tiger Stance which we get via Natural Ambition but the build doesn’t depend on it. Any ancestry will work as long as it doesn’t take a penalty to Dex or Wis.
Suggested Starting Stat Array
Str 12 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10
Background Field Medic
Boost Dex, Con, Wis every time
1 Ki Strike (Class), Tiger Stance (Natural Ambition), Battle Medicine (Background)
2 Medic Dedication; Assurance: Medicine (Skill)
3 Continual Recovery
4 Cobra Stance; Treat Condition (Skill)
5
6 Wholeness of Body
7
8 Brawling Focus
9
10 Cobra Envenom
11
12 Disrupt Ki
13
14 Meditative Focus
15 Legendary Medic (General)
16 Medusa’s Wrath
17
18 Ki Form
19
20 Impossible Technique
The idea is to simulate a "mantis style" manipulation of pressure/acupuncture points so this monk can heal himself and allies in and out of combat as well as remove conditions such as clumsy, enfeebled, sickened (Treat Condition) and frightened, stupefied, and stunned (Holistic Care). With more time, our monk can remove a disease or the blinded, deafened, doomed, or drained condition (Legendary Medic). He can also use this manipulation of acupuncture points offensively to potentially slow on a crit, cause persistent bleeding on a crit, poison, enfeeble w/persistent negative damage, and eventually petrify.
I can imagine a version of this build that decides to go with Grasping Shadow Initiate at level 12 instead of Disrupt Ki. Going this route, I'd definitely boost Strength at every level and might even start with a Dex 16 so I could start with Str 14. The main reason I didn't do this was because our Ki Strike gives us access to Negative energy from level 1 and I'm a fan of persistent damage in 2e.
I'm currently playing a lvl 4 human bo staff-using monk and it is a BLAST. My starting stats are: Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 10. I wrote up the build I'm using as Basic Bo Becomes Iron Forest.
My basic tactics are:
Round #1 - Move so I'm within 10ft of target, (reach) Trip, Flurry. Yes the Flurry is -5 and -10 but offset by the target being prone so it's equivalent to -3 and -8. If any of my flurries hit, I may stun the target due to Stunning Fist but that's gravy since Stunning Fist has incapacitation trait, so I don't count on it.
If target uses a move action to stand up or crawl away, I use Stand Still reaction to get an AOO strike with no MAP
Round #2 - [if they stood up] Trip, Flurry, Activate Bo Staff Parry trait' [if they didn't stand up], Flurry, Strike, Activate Bo Staff Parry
I'm looking for decent damage, but more looking to mess with the target's action economy by tripping and potentially stunning. I also use my superior speed to get to back row casters and archers but that's more of my and my party's tactics than a feature of the build so YMMV depending on your party.
This build is all about combining monk Ki powers with eldritch archery so that we can deal a wide array of energy damage at will.
** spoiler omitted **...
If you're going for elemental archery, wouldn't you want to just get Ki Strike at 2nd and Elemental Fist at 4th? Let's you deal elemental damage whenever you ki strike with your bow. It would also allow you to get Eldritch Archer dedication two levels earlier.
You could certainly go that route but I didn't want the elemental damage the build could dish out to be limited by the number of ki points it happened to have access to in any given encounter.
Granted, this build could be achieved without going the SoP route, by doing as you suggest and then training out of Elemental Fist at 9 when Multitalented comes on line. But I like the way one could reflavor Perfect Strike to seem more magical (e.g. whizzing past the target then reversing course to to seek it out anew).
I suggest you head over to the 101 Monk Bulds thread, specifically Build 76: Avatar of Nature since it's Leshy focused. However there are a lot of other builds that don't depend on specific ancestries that can provide ideas/guidance.
This build is all about combining monk Ki powers with eldritch archery so that we can deal a wide array of energy damage at will.
build:
Gotta go half-elf because we need access to elf’s cantrip-giving feats and human’s Multitalented feat
Starting Stat Array
Str 14 Dex 18 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10
Boost Dex, Con, Wis every time
Boost Str if you want to do more damage (assuming you end up with a composite bow, don't stop at 16 though)
Boost Int if you want more skills/languages/to be better at Int-based recall knowledge checks
Boost Cha if you want to be more of a face or go down the Intimidation route. Note: nothing about the build requires investing in Cha (no Cha-based attacks/DCs on our spells, half-elf means we don’t need to meet a multiclass’s ability score requirement)
1 Otherwordly Magic (Shield), Monastic Archer Stance
2 Student of Perfection Dedication* (gets us Ki Strike)
3
4 Perfect Strike*
5 Elf Ancestry - Elemental Wrath (Electricity)
6 Perfect Ki Adept* (I like Unfolding Wind Rush or Untwisting Iron here)
7
8 Eldritch Archer Dedication** (take Produce Flame as your cantrip)
9 Human Ancestry – Multitalented (bloodline needs to give access to Arcane or Primal spell list; take Acid Splash and Ray of Frost)
10 Ki Blast
11
12 Enchanted Arrow**
13 Elf Ancestry – Otherwordly Acumen (I suggest Blur or Resist Energy)
14 Disrupt Ki
15
16 Seeker Arrow**
17
18 Quivering Palm or Medusa’s Wrath
19
20 Impossible Technique
@9 we can deal Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire damage with our bow strikes at will and our arrows count as cold iron or silver too. @12 we add Mental damage and @14 Negative energy damage to the damage types we can deal, at will, with our bow strikes.
By spending Ki, we can expand the energy types we can deal to include Force, Positive, or Lawful (if we’re lawful)…and I love imagining that Ki Blast looking like a cone of force arrows.
Perfect Strike and Seeker Arrow are other ways we can get that “that’s not a normal archer” vibe we’re after.
@17 our bow strikes are treated as adamantine and @18 we can delivery death (if we go with Quivering Palm) or petrification with our bow strikes (if we go with Medusa's Wrath) by spending Ki. IMHO the monk feats, because they are focus spells, are better than the once a day Arrow of Death from Eldritch Archer
I suggest you check out the 101 Monk Builds thread. There are a few weapon-based monks builds there. I posted 2, 'Basic Bo Becomes Iron Forest' (just switch out bo staff for temple sword) and 'Sword and Shadow' that might give you some ideas on feat progression among other choices.
What would you consider “gimping” your character ?
Choosing a stat array that doesn't synergize well with the class and chosen mystery
I think what was meant by this was:
"Which Curse do you want to Thematically Embody?"
aka
"Which Curse are you willing to use your Character Choices to Mitigate?"
Have you settled on one yet?
Yes, "Which Curse are you willing to use your Character Choices to Mitigate?" gets very close to what I meant. For example, a low strength low dex battle oracle? I assume that's "doable" in a very generous reading of the word, but would I be a net negative to my party? I assume the answer is yes.
As for have you settled on a Mystery yet: I'm liking Battle as a first choice and have to admit, am being drawn to Tempest too.
Going martial artist with stumbling stance could help offset the lower attack roll
Nice call. I'll look into that as I can already see some RP potential...stumbling not because (pretending to be) drunk but because seeing glimpses of other battles and reacting to those
Mellored wrote:
Also, also. Bless gives a status bonus. So does the battle mystery. So those will not stack.
You want to have at least 1 generally useful/battle spell per level, probably making it your signature spell. And the others can be more niche uses.
For instance,
Level 1: heal (signature), bless, and air bubble.
Level 2: spiritual weapon (signature), calm emotion, farie fire
Spiritual weapon also counts as a Stike.
Thanks you! This is the kind of advice I find especially useful as it gives me insight into the more subtle interactions of stats and class features/feats. Something I don't have a feel for yet.
What would you consider “gimping” your character ?
Choosing a stat array that doesn't synergize well with the class and chosen mystery
Lanathar wrote:
You want to go take 16 or 18 in Charisma being your casting stat
If you want to melee then you then need strength and some con for survivability . And then keep an eye on AC as well which is likely Dex or finding a way of getting heavier armour
thank you this is helpful
"Kyrone" wrote:
Ancestors is the most complicated one, because you want useful strikes and skill actions to deal with your ancestors backseating what you do.
So getting something like archer archetype for strikes and getting skill feats like Bon Mot and demoralizing ones makes easier to deal with the curse. If you don't mind going close, Athletics is nice for combat maneuvers.
Battle Oracle obviously wants to strike because otherwise the AC and saves penalty are nasty. Champion MC is a classic and Bastion is really good for survivability too. Close combat again makes Athletics skills helps a lot too.
