Early copies, spoilers, and the fate of this board


Prerelease Discussion

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Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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Hey there all,

I wanted to take a moment to talk to folks on the forum about the impending release of the Pathfinder Playtest.

1. We have reports of the book leaking already. While unfortunate, it is not unexpected. We would ask that if you find yourself with a copy that you refrain from posting every detail and spoiler until general release to allow everyone to have a chance to look through the book and learn about it for themselves. We will not be locking threads or policing discussion on this, but we are asking for your understanding.

2. Due to the amount of things we still need to do before the official launch, the design team will not be taking feedback or answering questions until release (or a short time after depending on how Gen Con works for us time wise). We will still be answering questions and comments about the blogs, but we are not going to be delving into any threads that deal specifically with spoilers from the book (and spoiler posts to the blog threads will be marked as off topic).

3. There will be a few additional blogs in the coming days to cover a few topics that just did not make it on the schedule. Expect one looking at humans, half-elves, and half-orcs very soon.

4. When the official playtest board goes live, this board, and all of its threads, will be locked. We have found the discussion here very valuable to our process and there are a few things we are going to be looking at based on the threads in these boards, but we want to start the discussion fresh in new boards based on the actual rules starting next week.

Thank you everyone. I am sure I speak for the team when I say that we are very excited for you to see the full Playtest rules for the 2nd edition of Pathfinder. We've spent 3 years making this game as good as it could be, but we know it could be even better. We are looking forward to your thoughts, you feedback, and your ideas.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for letting us know what you’d like! I’ve deleted my post with a spoiler.

Edit: I don’t have a copy or access to a copy, folks.


Thank you for all of your hard work. I'm looking forward to seeing the full release soon!

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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QuidEst wrote:
Thanks for letting us know what you’d like! I’ve deleted my post with a spoiler.

I appreciate that. I don't want to squash anyone's enthusiasm. Far from it. Having done this before though, we are not going to have the time to respond to everyone in the next week before we head off to Gen Con and I would rather set expectations now than have folks get disappointed.

So much to do... so little time!


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Thanks for letting us know what you’d like! I’ve deleted my post with a spoiler.

I appreciate that. I don't want to squash anyone's enthusiasm. Far from it. Having done this before though, we are not going to have the time to respond to everyone in the next week before we head off to Gen Con and I would rather set expectations now than have folks get disappointed.

So much to do... so little time!

That should always be written as:

So little to do... so much time, wait strike that, reverse it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Thanks for letting us know what you’d like! I’ve deleted my post with a spoiler.

I appreciate that. I don't want to squash anyone's enthusiasm. Far from it. Having done this before though, we are not going to have the time to respond to everyone in the next week before we head off to Gen Con and I would rather set expectations now than have folks get disappointed.

So much to do... so little time!

Of course! My enthusiasm remains undampened, and I eagerly await the book! Best of luck with GenCon, and thanks everyone!

Silver Crusade

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Shame about the leak, but I am a huge fan of closing this board and starting a new one, just to make sure that everyone is basing their posts on the released rules and not just speculation.

This playtest is going to be a lot of work/fun ^^


I love your careful planning. Your desire for coherent discussion reflects your willingness to work with the players and your dedication to fine game craftsmanship.


Cool, as long as they're still readable (I've gotten some good world building ideas from the people here). Best of luck with the release.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks to all the designers for their willingness to communicate not just the what's but the whys of changes in the playtest during this preview period. I look forward to the next couple of blog posts, and of course the full rules next week.


Thank you for the anouncment and clarification Jason!


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If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?

Many people have free time in July, more time to play, playtest and read.

If changes were still being made, ok, i can understand that every single day counts toward making a better product. But since nothing wil be changed until the playtest itself start, seems to me like some sort of deadline that is there just for the sake of deadline.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

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To put it simply,

The design staff just does not have the time right at the moment to moderate and respond to feedback and questions. There are two staffers out part of this week and we are trying to get all of the things ready for the launch (primarily so we will have the time to respond). Not to mention the fact that we have preparations to do for events, games, and panels at Gen Con.


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RafaelBraga wrote:
If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?

Sometimes we gamers need to think of the rest of the game community. Let the Gencon participants have the thrill of being the official non-digital release location for the Pathfinder 2nd Edition playtest, even if it means scheduling the digital release no earlier to avoid stealing the thrill.


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Mathmuse wrote:
RafaelBraga wrote:
If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?
Sometimes we gamers need to think of the rest of the game community. Let the Gencon participants have the thrill of being the official non-digital release location for the Pathfinder 2nd Edition playtest, even if it means scheduling the digital release no earlier to avoid stealing the thrill.

Not trying to bash nor anything like that.

But there are many, many, many people in the world that cant go to USA for a game event.

I dont like Jason explanation, but is ok, its his business and product and he runs as he pleases.

But i think that you said is like NOT THINKING of a very big part of the game community :P

To me, to go to gencon, is not some kind of choice i have.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
RafaelBraga wrote:

If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?

Many people have free time in July, more time to play, playtest and read.

If changes were still being made, ok, i can understand that every single day counts toward making a better product. But since nothing wil be changed until the playtest itself start, seems to me like some sort of deadline that is there just for the sake of deadline.

You're ignoring the importance and effect of GenCon on the hobby. It's not "just a show" or "yet another con", it's the place and time where everybody puts out their big guns and makes it or breaks it. The entire industry is on GenCon clock, just like, say, comics are on SDCC clock or the car industry is on FIAA clock. You don't put things out earlier ahead of GenCon and you don't want to anger your, technologically conservative, customer base by letting some folks have their file earlier ahead of the cherished dead tree book, which is, for a great deal of the hobby, The Real Thing.

Also, the PF/D&D industry is 80% US+CAN, which makes GenCon all the more imporant, and the overseas "can't ever go there so don't care" customer all the more peripheral.


Haven't the books been sent to Amazon, with instructions to deliver each of them as close to 8/2 as possible? Amazon might not be so happy to get a call saying "nah, deliver them now instead" at this point.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
RafaelBraga wrote:

If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?

Many people have free time in July, more time to play, playtest and read.

If changes were still being made, ok, i can understand that every single day counts toward making a better product. But since nothing wil be changed until the playtest itself start, seems to me like some sort of deadline that is there just for the sake of deadline.

Your post could be rephrased as:

Since you’ve prepared everything for a GenCon release next week, why not just ditch all the preparation and release it now and spoil the release which is the big Paizo event at GenCon?

Put like that, doesn’t it sound a bit impatient?


No one can take back words they did not say.

Silver Crusade

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Dragonstriker wrote:
RafaelBraga wrote:

If the books are already printed... and the pdfs will be free... everything is ready, why not release it already?

Many people have free time in July, more time to play, playtest and read.

If changes were still being made, ok, i can understand that every single day counts toward making a better product. But since nothing wil be changed until the playtest itself start, seems to me like some sort of deadline that is there just for the sake of deadline.

Your post could be rephrased as:

Since you’ve prepared everything for a GenCon release next week, why not just ditch all the preparation and release it now and spoil the release which is the big Paizo event at GenCon?

Put like that, doesn’t it sound a bit impatient?

But ten days is so long! The new books are shiny and I want them. It's not my fault Paizo makes nice things.

Edit: To be clear I'm not being serious.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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It's far from being just about Gen Con. August 2 is the worldwide release date for hobby stores and bookstores as well. We have been coordinating a lot of things towards that date for many months, from press releases to website changes to customer shipments, and at this point it's simply not possible to realign all those things to a new date.

But frankly, we wouldn't even if we could. Though some retailers have obviously received product early, many have not, so letting the shops that have product sell it first would be unfair to the shops that don't.

I understand that you're annoyed that some people have access to the books before they're supposed to, but the people you should be annoyed at are the retailers who broke street date. That action is unfair not only to retailers who respect the street date, but to everybody who has preordered playtest products from vendors who are playing by the rules, and to everybody who is waiting patiently to download the PDFs.


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It's always interesting seeing people learn the lesson about planned release dates for the first time, and I get to reminisce about my first anticipated release. It would be an entertaining experiment just to ship them out as they come off the presses, but I'm pretty sure the result wouldn't be pretty.

Silver Crusade

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ErichAD wrote:
It's always interesting seeing people learn the lesson about planned release dates for the first time, and I get to reminisce about my first anticipated release. It would be an entertaining experiment just to ship them out as they come off the presses, but I'm pretty sure the result wouldn't be pretty.

This is at least the third time I've gone though the agony of pre-release excitement, and I'll go through it again next year when the non-play-test version is released, and will continue to do so periodically for the remainder of my natural life.

I blame capitalism.


But waiting is the best part!

Silver Crusade

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ErichAD wrote:
But waiting is the best part!

I respectfully do not know what the f#~# you are talking about.


Thanks a lot for the good work and for doing this playtest at all! Another week is really a small Price to pay. I am more sorry that we couldn't make a German playtest Version happy, but completely understand the time constraints.
Have fun at GenCon - making big Releases at big Events is ALWAYS more fun and makes for great publicity.

Dark Archive

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Again I am saddened that this forum doesn't allow for posting pictures, because I would love to start a thread titled "Major Spoiler Thread" filled with pictures of spoilers on the back of peoples street racers.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

This is my favorite.


So does this mean that orders are already showing up? Do I have to start camping my mailbox?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Hargert wrote:
So does this mean that orders are already showing up? Do I have to start camping my mailbox?

I don't believe there have been any reports of shipments being received. (Amazon has a successful history of making sure Harry Potter books didn't turn up a week before release.) It's been individual local stores breaking their agreements to wait for street date.


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I hate it, I want to play it and I am peeved that several people already can at least start to prepare their games and read through it...
Those suppliers should be blacklisted from getting stuff before release themselves >_>


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Joana wrote:
Hargert wrote:
So does this mean that orders are already showing up? Do I have to start camping my mailbox?
I don't believe there have been any reports of shipments being received. (Amazon has a successful history of making sure Harry Potter books didn't turn up a week before release.) It's been individual local stores breaking their agreements to wait for street date.

After doing some looking into it at least one person got their shipment to their house early. Sadly it is not me.


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Can't we just get the books now? Waiting starts to get really uncomfortable

Silver Crusade

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Seisho wrote:
Can't we just get the books now? Waiting starts to get really uncomfortable

In a post-scarcity communist utopia where it didn't matter how quickly people bought it and hype coordination was unneeded, things would just release when they were done.

We live in a society ruled by capitalist lizard people in which money is life and all of the nice paizo people have to psychologically manipulate us as much as they can for fear of going out of business and never being able to make games for us at all. In that context, they're relying on pent up hype and mass coordination to achieve their ideal result and make sure interest is at its maximum when things are released.

Blame the law of value.


I don't know why but your post makes me very uncomfortable and agressive... I hereby revoke myself from the thread until further notice


It's not all capitalism. They are also just trying to be fair to everyone including a large portion of fans who prefer physical media or for whatever reason wouldn't be able to use the more easily distributed pdf. In theory everyone getting it at the same time is more fair. Some folks will cheat, or in the case of the leak it sounds more like it just happened to them, but that is no reason to give up on the ideal.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

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May the Force be with you, design team. That and LOTS of coffee.


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Waiting till street date, that's not uncomfortable.

A hemorrhoidectomy, THAT's uncomfortable. :)

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

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I do also want to mention that for many, many stores, they are putting out a ton of new products constantly and putting out on the shelves may have been accidental. Sending out books early isn't necessarily a nefarious action, so please be wary of ascribing ill will or malice to people who have books early. Yes, its a major bummer, but please be respectful.

One thing that you can do if you see spoilers get leaked early is speak up. Let people know (politely) that the book isn't released yet so they shouldn't be posting spoilers.

Dark Archive

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Massive Spoiler!


TiwazBlackhand wrote:
Massive Spoiler!

Way too big. It's like I don't even need to play anymore...

NOT. :P


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Seisho wrote:
Can't we just get the books now? Waiting starts to get really uncomfortable

The waiting has been uncomfortable for months now. What's another week at this point?


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It gets me how some people in this forum are just pure ignorant towards the developers. I have been a Pathfinder GM since it came out and I have been a Paizo customer for sometime. So trust me when I say I can not wait to get my hands on the books that I purchased. A wait is a wait stop being impatient we are in the final stretch!

Silver Crusade

Sara Marie, during the play test period is Paizo going to release soft cover non rules books?


UltimateDM wrote:
It gets me how some people in this forum are just pure ignorant towards the developers. I have been a Pathfinder GM since it came out and I have been a Paizo customer for sometime. So trust me when I say I can not wait to get my hands on the books that I purchased. A wait is a wait stop being impatient we are in the final stretch!

No one bashed a developer here. Everyone is being very polite and respecting everyone else feeling.

This was the most "ignorant" comentary on the whrole thread :/


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Lou Diamond wrote:
Sara Marie, during the play test period is Paizo going to release soft cover non rules books?

I'm not Sara Marie, but the Campaign Setting line has products presently announced through February, and Player Companion through January.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lou Diamond wrote:
Sara Marie, during the play test period is Paizo going to release soft cover non rules books?

Lisa Stevens answered that question last March

Lisa Stevens CEO wrote:
Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:

when will the last 1e stuff roll out?

July 2019

Silver Crusade

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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Can't we just get the books now? Waiting starts to get really uncomfortable

In a post-scarcity communist utopia where it didn't matter how quickly people bought it and hype coordination was unneeded, things would just release when they were done.

We live in a society ruled by capitalist lizard people in which money is life and all of the nice paizo people have to psychologically manipulate us as much as they can for fear of going out of business and never being able to make games for us at all. In that context, they're relying on pent up hype and mass coordination to achieve their ideal result and make sure interest is at its maximum when things are released.

Blame the law of value.

Have met Erik Mona irl, can confirm he has 2 sets of eyelids, long scaled tail and extensive library of arcane secrets.


Thanks for the hard work, devs. Even though I was a bit virulent on some points, I am still very excited to get the PDF and start playtesting ! :)


Dean HS Jones wrote:
ThePuppyTurtle wrote:
Seisho wrote:
Can't we just get the books now? Waiting starts to get really uncomfortable

In a post-scarcity communist utopia where it didn't matter how quickly people bought it and hype coordination was unneeded, things would just release when they were done.

We live in a society ruled by capitalist lizard people in which money is life and all of the nice paizo people have to psychologically manipulate us as much as they can for fear of going out of business and never being able to make games for us at all. In that context, they're relying on pent up hype and mass coordination to achieve their ideal result and make sure interest is at its maximum when things are released.

Blame the law of value.

Have met Erik Mona irl, can confirm he has 2 sets of eyelids, long scaled tail and extensive library of arcane secrets.

I smell a TV movie - a sequel to that old V miniseries, where THIS time, they take over gaming!

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