Hargert's page

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After making characters for our game next week and reading the rules to prep it my biggest take away is this seems much like 4th edition D&D far to focused on maintaining balance and trying to ward off the power players than making a game that feels fun. It tries to have a rule for everything and everything spelled out like some kind of legal document. I for one noticed this trend when the Kenisistist came out and figured it was just an effort to avoid power creep taken a bit too far. There is a DM there for a reason yet just look to the arguments about what having a hand free entails for a good example of this.


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I tend to agree that I think far too much effort is going into trying to balance things for PFS play and dealing with the various min/max rule lawyers out there. I have seen PF and SF both start down this rabbit hole in recent years. It stems from players and GMs not remembering rule one or not slapping down characters who want to make some build that makes no sense and is vastly overpowered to "win" the game. This causes the rule books to be far more of a legal document trying to cover every base. It is how we get people arguing about what holding something means.


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Add to the fact that monsters and characters alike have on average more HP now. If it maxed at 5-6 with no bonuses that would help but I am afraid that in an effort to stop the dreaded power gamer that the average caster is going to be less than fun to play. Will find out once I get a chance this weekend to play one.


I must be missing something then if you are getting 6-8 per slot but I am a slow reader and also "working" today. Can you post your character?


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I look at cantrips as small utility spells or what you learned before you learn real magic. Using them as the main attack is less than feeling like a hero. I think the whole getting rid of most auto scaling spells and adding spell heightening sucks even more if you have to use your higher level slots to power them. This encourages the one encounter per day style of play far more than before. What makes it worse is there are no bonus spells, every 4th level caster will have the exact same number.


Am I seeing correctly that the most spells you get per level is 3? Maybe 4 for some?


I guess one way to stop leaks is to not ship until after the date. Not a huge deal as getting the PDF was super easy.


Cylerist wrote:
Hargert wrote:
My USPS is showing an inbound delivery from the next state over as of 9:00AM this morning. I ordered from the Paizo site so hoping it was next day and will be here tomorrow.
How are you tracking your order?

I signed up for delivery notification from all the major carriers. So, in this case, the USPS lets me know when a package is on the way to be delivered. So I have the following...

AMAZON SC / LAXX
Bound Printed Matter--
USPS Tracking

As I dont have any other bound printer matter on the order I am assuming it is my book.


My USPS is showing an inbound delivery from the next state over as of 9:00AM this morning. I ordered from the Paizo site so hoping it was next day and will be here tomorrow.


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Another Hero Lab classic user here but after looking at the HLO model I just went nope right out. My group uses it as well and while my players were interested in Starfinder once it became clear there was not going to be the HL Classic support we moved on. So it has cost the HL people money as well as Paizo, I know I am far from alone in this matter. I hope someone will put together a HLC version of PF2 out there and if HL does not do it the first company that can will get my money.


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I am frankly floored that there have not been any "I got the book" posts. It looks like they have done a great job of avoiding an early release of this. As a very early buyer, I was hoping it would show up a couple of days early.


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The player has to use the shield to block the hit. So the player makes the choice if they want to destroy the shield or take the hit. I dont think you can attack the shield to destroy it that way.


I am frankly surprised that we have not seen more copies in the wild yet. I figured it would be found, scanned and posted by now. Just a few more days.


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Joana wrote:
Hargert wrote:
So does this mean that orders are already showing up? Do I have to start camping my mailbox?
I don't believe there have been any reports of shipments being received. (Amazon has a successful history of making sure Harry Potter books didn't turn up a week before release.) It's been individual local stores breaking their agreements to wait for street date.

After doing some looking into it at least one person got their shipment to their house early. Sadly it is not me.


So does this mean that orders are already showing up? Do I have to start camping my mailbox?


Zaister wrote:

So, at least one German mail order shop is breaking street date:

Proof

Disclaimer: the picture is not mine.

I would expect to start seeing info hitting the web any time now. It is not the end of the world as it is a playtest and a week one way or the other is not going to affect that.

My only annoyance is not having any tracking so I can know when it will show up.


The question has come up if the Discord Bottle from the Wrath of Thrune AP would break invisibility when it is unstoppered as the player does not cast any type of spell and it would be more like cutting a bridge. I thought it was clear that if you unstopper it and someone is in the area of effect that required a saving throw it would break it. If someone walked into the area of effect it would not. The counterpoint is it is not casting a spell or activating an item just moving a stopper being the action. What happens after that is out of control of the user and as even the user has to make the save meaning that the user does not control or direct it.


Yes, that is just the one. Thank you very much!


Some time ago I remember an encounter where the PCs have to sneak onto a galleon and cut the lines to the rudder. Does anyone know what AP that is from? I am searching and having no luck finding it. Thanks


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Classes defining roles was already critically wounded in 2000 with the release of 3E.

Its about time we burried it out back.

be careful that way of thinking leads to 4th Edition D&D and you see how well it worked out for them. There are people who enjoy playing healers and keeping the party going. beware trying to fix a minor issue only to cause far more problems.


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How about just remove CLW, give low level clerics and other healers a class feature to do their basic heals and save healing spells larger amounts to use in combat. Boom problem taken care of. When healing requires a level 3 wand people are paying some actual costs for it.


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Yrtalien wrote:

The problem here IMO is people are looking at resonance as being added to the game solely to combat clw wand spamming, when that is only one facet of the change. It also streamlines resource management and gets rid of body slots. Depending on implementation it may also help meter access to especially powerful items by requiring a larger investment (something I have heard theorized but have no proof of).

If you look at this solely as a reaction due to wand spam then yes, it does seem to be an over reaction, but in light of the other issues it touches upon perhaps it's worthy of the playtest and critique.

: )

I for one think item slots are a much more natural way to limit magic items than some kind of magic mana system to see if you can use them. Get rid of the stat items and make items that "DO" something. Putting powerful or any item behind some kind of level gateway I think does more harm than the problem it fixes. People complaining of the christmass tree effect because it was assumed that players would have X items. That limited what other items you could use. As the system now just gives you those bonuses just leave the good items.


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How is letting every character self-heal any better? The end result is much the same, either the characters can heal up or not. Just giving everyone their entire HP pool back by either rest/or skill does not solve the issue other than it puts an arbitrary limit on it. Maybe a better way is up the costs of healing wands or just get rid of them altogether. Have healing magic be part of a class ability and remove the cure line of spells if you want to limit it.
Ultimately players being cheesy and gaming the system is up to the DM to squash. That is why they are there and trying to design around every issue leads to creating more problems. Rule zero should exist for a reason.


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I have issue with the DCs being based on the foe, one it is yet another thing to track and two I can see players getting pissed that Bob the fighter only had to make a DC 12 check because a mook got a lucky crit but Alice the fighter had to make a DC 20 check because the boss hit her with a magic missile. HP is the representation of health and wounds should be agnostic once inflicted.


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I hate the idea for resonance as it is a rule for the game sake of a rule where it should be the DM slapping the players and saying no. Change how wands work and/or are built. The fact is people do it because it is the most cost-effective way to heal. Remove that cost/ease and the problem goes away.


The truth is this is about selling copies and not testing. If it was about testing as said they would release the basics now to get it in peoples hands. You can see how quickly after a new book is released that any broken gameplay elements are found that no internal QA can match what the masses can do. That said it takes a lot of money and time to sort the gems from the garbage.
I am looking forward to the new game, if I hate it I will stick with P1E.


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The truth of the matter is that PF has some sore spots on it. High level play for most grinds to a point where even simple combats take hours to fight. I have players who have been playing for years and still have issues with what actions take what. The Christmas tree effect of magic items turn them from cool rewards to must get or suck. If they can shape up some of these I am all for it.
I do agree goblin as a playable race is no dragonborn and unlikely to draw in new players.


I am in the agnostic for rules with the setting in a separate book. I always hear from the design side we had some great ideas for X but they had to be cut. I want pages for more, rule explanations, feats, spells, classes and more material to actually play with. For world keep them to their own books and the APs. There is already a ton of Golarion material out there and it will all be useable still.


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I knew it had to be coming, only so many books you can sell before you start to run out. That said I don't mind at all, a chance to clean up some of the clunky parts is a good thing and if it leads to a better game I am all for it.
So far hard to say what I want to see but glad if they can fix higher level combat maths and getting rid of the Christmas tree effect of magic items is great.


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I am just going to re-skin the magic as psychic powers ala Babalon 5. The players can be whatever they want but any other Psychics will be rare in the world. I think that will work for my game.


That is just what I was looking for, thanks


Trying to find a rule on this I can reference on if the arrows fired by a flaming skeleton get to add the 1d6 fire damage to arrows fired. Thank you.


The only problem with holding things so close to the vest is that once published many core mechanics are almost set in stone. I was disappointed to hear that there would not be a playtest as many eyes can find issues that you overlook being too close to the project. I am very hopeful for this product as I love sci-fi as a setting and sci-fantasy can be fun as well and a great base to run games of various degrees of each.


How many miniatures will be in the set?


Jason Mosher wrote:
Here

Link does not work, unless I am missing something.


The whole what do you do with multiple ships is where a good DM comes in. You have to pay crews and selling ships is not nessarly easy. Even if they give no prices I will come up with something that makes sense rather than say no you can't because it is a game. Also many ships after combat will be badly damaged.


I would think pre-order and convert to a sub if/when it is announced would be the best bet.


I have a player that is playing in our evil AP path and is playing a necromancer to fairly good effect. He is wanting to make a custom item that allows him to command undead at range non-verbally and allow him to see through his minion's eyes with concentration. I am at a loss on what an item would cost and can not find anything even close other than a helm of telepathy. Anyone have any ideas?


I have one problem with these maps after looking at them at a friends house. I play online and like to use the maps with a VTT. The scale of the castle at each square being 15 feet make these maps unusable at the current resolution. If I blow it up to make it have the proper 5 foot squares it is a mess. Any chance of a high resolution version?


I am going with the Black Blade Magus, my reasoning is I like to build non-optimized characters to fit a background story but still be able to keep up with the other players who more min/max stats and feat/skill selections. So I like to do selective optimization.


I am joining a very low magic item game soon and was thinking what would be a good class to play? I am talking at level 7 and there are only two +1 weapons in the party. I am thinking a black blade magus or summoner would be ideal. Any other suggestions?


nighttree wrote:


Just how does one gain access to these alternate keneticist abilities ?

Did I miss someone talking about alternate keneticist abilities somewhere?


I agree with Kalindlara, the Warlock was a much simpler class to play compared to the Kineticist. I think the way burn works does have too many variables that make tracking it a pain and allow errors to creep in during play. I too loved the warlock from 3.5, shame it did not fall under the OGL.

That said I think most are just waiting to see what will be in the book for the Kineticist. When will the subscribers start getting the PDFs?


Dragon78 wrote:
We have over 40 sorcerer bloodlines, hundreds of feats, and thousands of monsters, I am sure having like 12 elements will not kill the game.

Yes but they should be added after the originals are fleshed out. They are think as all heck in the lower levels. I am hoping to see some good archtypes and some feat support for kineticist as most of the current ones are marginal at best or just don't work.


I am playing in a game right now with lightning and I am enjoying it quite a bit. For me the question is to go water or stay air and get a 60 foot lightning torrent at 7th. Having to wait until 9th to pick it up hurts as this game advancement is quite slow so it will be months if I delay. I really wish they had given the pick at 7th if you expanded or not. Would make the choice come down a lot more to build style vs having to miss out for levels.


Insain Dragoon wrote:
I think Occult Origins had some?

Yes it had two new elements but I am looking for new powers for the current elements or some feats that they can take. Right now there is a noticeable lack of options on what you can take. I would like to see some more and given the overwhelming response that the class has had you would think Paizo would want to offer them.


Does anyone know what the next official pathfinder product that is going to have support for the Kineticist is going to be. Like most I love the class but would like to see some more options for lower level powers and some interesting feats for them.


shroudb wrote:

fire SHOULD have a way to punch through immunity for non-elementals (at least for outsiders).

in general straight up immunities should be completly removed from the game, put them as exceptionally high resistances (40+) but not outright imunity, especially if there isn't a way to punch through.

If a class is forced to only have one tool there should be a way to make it work or an option to get around it either via item, feat or power. It should not just be for fire but any of the energy types. If you could get additional types earlier you could leave it. Sadly the more specialized a class is the better you have to have built in ways to be effective and not have huge portions of what you can do be countered so easily.


No if the rough edges were beaten out the powers levels would line up when you could get them. You would not have so many rules to cover edge cases or stop abuses. You would not have choices that leave you completely nullified bY a single spell. I am sure with time as aditional options come online it will improve and I still hope they will modify the class in future printings or provide feat choices that actually help the class.


Some of the issue on perception is that listed levels that they are broken into you can not get them at. If you read a power is 4th level and you think you should be able to pick it up at 8th. The way things break down having to wait until 9th to grab a power has a bad feel to it. I understand people's complaints about that kind of thing. The class has great promise and from the play test it is obvious that people love the concept. I for one think it got released too early and could have used some more time to get the rough edges smoothed out.

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