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It's usually best not to rely on stats for your damage mitigation and avoidance. For instance, a druid's access to constant earthglide through elemental form is going to do more for their survivability than a high AC would.
There's also impossible to kill options in the game such as an Eldest worshiping summoner who summons a Remacera (summon monster 5, eldest summoning only) each morning to scratch him up so that he's reincarnated should he ever die before healing to full hit points.
Slightly more conventional options would be to include the ability to cast symbol of mirroring and false focus in your build in order to get constant mirror image effects. Though it may be more valuable to have a permanent version made on something that could be concealed when not needed.


Coup de Gras is a pretty reliable option for solo wizards. Carry around a tetsubo, cast hold spells and sleep spells, and walk around caving in heads or turning invisible and avoiding the combat when it's not an option. You may want to go with a spirit whisperer to grab sleep hex just to ensure sleep is always available to you.


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I maintain my belief that rarity should have been dropped for region of origin, and this is just another thing that reinforces that belief. Doing things the way they've decided to do them means that some heritages aught to have been flagged which are not and there will continue to be heritages and ancestries that go unflagged due to poor editing or flagged due to laziness. A mandatory region of origin flag would have eliminated all these problems.

However, without dropping their system entirely, or writing a better one, they'd probably want to flag any race/heritage that is entirely subterranean or aquatic, has a fly, climb or swim speed, or has innate magic spells that are more than cantrips. A Focus on flagging heritages rather than ancestries would allow a more precise curation of available abilities without directly impacting ancestry selection.


So with this interpretation, does that mean you can't use the shield block reaction with the shield spell unless you have the shield block feat.


PF2 runs into the other end of things where you can build for irrelevance by choosing easily over written buffs and debuffs even within a small 4 person party. 5e lets nothing stack so you know building for sharing advantage/disadvantage is pointless, but it's unsatisfying and occasionally silly.

I'd worked up a slightly modified PF2 style buff/debuff system that involved shifting the values entirely to the player. You'd give spells and attacks a modifier that increased based on how many debuffs were present on the target or buffs were present on the player, and give the value a cap.

So some attacks would have a listing like "Exploit(3), flanked 1, confused 1, burning 3" and if the target were flanked and confused you'd get +2, if they were burning you'd get +3 and if they had all three you'd still cap out at +3. You'd need to narrow your debuff types considerably, but it should work well. I wasn't sure whether or not to combine both the buff and debuff max values, and it looked like I'd need to vary the baseline proficiency bonus so higher exploit value classes weren't too competitive.


I could never figure out brawler's flurry. Can a brawler flurry with a two handed weapon that isn't a double weapon? It reads like they've only been given a modified two weapon fighting ability, but it doesn't discuss modifiers directly and the two handed line only mentions strength to damage not handedness. There isn't a two weapon fighting modifier for wielding a two handed weapon that I know of either. It was my impression that you needed something like spear dancing style to get a standard two hander to work with brawler's flurry.

Also, thanks Derklord for the corrections earlier, I thought I might have missed something. I could argue that unarmed proficiency does exist as it's granted to clerics with unarmed strike as their deity's favored weapon, but that's referencing another obvious error and doesn't move toward clarification at all. And it implies that unchained monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes as it isn't listed for them.


The slayer's assassinate ability also doesn't require that you observe the target for 3 rounds. You can make the assassins assassinate slightly better by continuing on with master spy after assassin in order to keep getting your full +level to DC, but you only break even with slayer.

The only worse death attack is the serial killer vigilante's version since the DC is worse and it has all the assassin's limitations.


Intelligence based would probably focus on benefits gained from identifying creatures and non-combat skill success. Expanding weapon choice for sneak attack and applying it to creatures you'd successfully identified would be a good step.

Wisdom based, I'd improve readied actions somewhat, allowing the rogue to wait till the right moment to strike. Give them a cheaper readied action and extra reactions that can be spent on executing readied actions. This could also be a good place for a dagger thrower.

Con based is always an odd concept. Either combine in some alchemy ideas for a poisoner or fire breather, or make them extraordinarily athletic focusing on combat maneuvers, unusual movement types, and outpacing their opposition. Anything I can think of would be better covered by another class.


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They're a bang-up option for archetyping into as they don't have any significant feats or class abilities you're looking forward to that would be delayed. That's about it though. They fulfill little enough of the old wizard niche that I'd say they weren't so much nerfed as removed.


There's the Chu Ye enforcer vigilante, but it's very substandard power wise despite having some of the flavor you're after. From the two you've listed, I'd probably recommend brawler. At lower levels you'd be better off using your alter self spell like from oni-spawn to turn into a canopy or sewer troll rather than use your flurry, but eventually it'll catch up.


The main difficulty with shaman is they're tricky. You can shoot yourself in the foot by picking lore as your main spirit losing tons of versatility, but there's several other spirits that don't offer enough to be competitive at any level. Taking dark tapestry to add advanced template to all your summons is great, or you could take Mammoth and be glad you can at least wandering spirit lore.

Essentially, if you have don't know enough of the game to take advantage of some intense flexibility, then you're better off with something else. You can also snipe some of the best aspects of the shaman through other classes. A spirit whisperer wizard can make better use of the alien summons hex, and an involutionist spiritualist can make better use of life hexes, and so on.


Only two-handed. Weapon mods specify that you can only use modified exotic weapons if you have the Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept feats. Use a nodachi instead and call it good.

You do need to take weapon focus and ascetic style with a weapon you are proficient with and be 5th level. It should worth other than that one minor hiccup. Once it's part of the monk weapon group, ascetic style grants you proficiency as proficiency is effecting your unarmed strikes, and that covers the only complicated part of the feat interaction.


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I've found three threads about rogue minor magic, but none point to a clear rules based decision on how it works. Is minor magic meant to make the rogue proficient in spell rolls and DCs, are they meant to use a specific stat, is it a class DC and a new "class roll" for attacks? Is it meaningful that they don't gain the "cast a spell" activity as multiclass archetypes do? Are the spells meant to be innate despite the innate description explicitly stating that spells from your class aren't innate?


That's how oozemorph is, it's both a weak archetype and a poorly edited one. You lose abilities you don't have(chimeric form rather than chimeric aspect), gain abilities that do nothing(A thousand faces is a weaker version of your earlier alter self that doesn't function with morphic weapons), and find that you can make use of very little of the game through this archetype(equipment mostly).

Make a vigilante with the "maleable flesh" and "morphic weaponry" vigilante abilities and you have most of what makes the archetype interesting covered.


So it should be read:
"free action- if your next action is an unarmed strike or flurry of blows, You gain a +1 status bonus to your attack rolls with the Strikes, and the Strikes deal 1d6 extra damage. This damage can be any of the following types of your choice, chosen each time you Strike: force, lawful (only if you’re lawful), negative, or positive. This action gains the verbal trait."

Or something like that?


Magaambyan arcanist prestige class is a decent way to do it, but you're waiting awhile for your aura.


I was looking at the student of perfection archetype and saw that it granted ki strike. When you use ki strike you can make an unarmed or flurry of blows, but I'm uncertain whether or not you spend an action to use ki strike and an additional action to flurry or attack. I'm also unsure whether or not you are granted the ability to make a flurry of blows if you do not otherwise have that ability.


I tend not to convert on going games to avoid players feeling like their in universe abilities are changing arbitrarily. I only use homebrew settings, and so have no specific lore complaints about whether or not the world can be consistent between editions, though I have seen that complaint.
I think much of the problem in converting from PF1 to PF2 could be solved by increasing a character's level by between 30 and 50 percent. PF2 is a lower powered event so you'd end up with a miss match by trying to keep character's levels identical rather than their abilities.

As to the specific complaints you mention, PF1 wizards should be using light mithral shields and bucklers, so allowing it slightly earlier isn't much of an issue. The specific functioning of wands probably isn't an important character or world feature, and spell names are unlikely to be consistent from caster to caster. I'd expect effects like no longer being able to stay shapeshifted all day, sneak while looking for traps and scouting for enemies, or ride on a floating disk, would all be more likely to change how players interact with the world.


Do note that the totem spiritualist taken as a dip for a class with a full companion, gets one -1 level companion and one fully leveled phantom companion.


Combat is an abstraction, not a perfect simulation of events. If this is a tactic that works within the abstraction, there's no reason to assume that it is what's exactly occurring narratively speaking. It also means that thinking the tactic is too smart for orcs, or too meta for an in game creature, isn't a worthwhile complaint to level.


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Do to the free movement of PF2, and the narrow defense range across characters, the value of choke points is inverted. You need to rotate target availability instead of having a "heavy" hold a choke point. Simply move your front to the rear with a ranged weapon while the next target soaks. It's your standard mmo tank rotation and it works like a charm when combat is free roaming like this.

Baring a choke point, you can use a 3 team blocking group with one being against a wall, or in a corner


The "centaur-like creature made only of human body parts" needs be no more specific than that.


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Cylerist wrote:

"Pathfinder Second Edition does not include one single sentence or rule carried over directly from first edition."

This quote worries me. So you decided nothing was worth keeping from PF1. Really?
Nothing for nothing but it sounds like change for change sake and I don't care for that as a basis for redoing rules.

It's better than the occasionally half copied 3.5 rules that show up in Pathfinder, or rules that rely on another rule that wasn't imported.


Mostly true, with the exception of Socothbenoth's 3rd tier evangelist obedience ability.


Distance yourself from him. Retreat when he gives away your position, avoid him when in civilization so he causes problems for himself only, and make it clear that you aren't affiliated with him in any other social encounters.

If you absolutely need to kill him, still do this stuff. Then, one morning, leave early for the next adventure, set up a couple Calistria's Guardian Wasp spells in the direction you expect the paladin to head off on his own, and let him get slowly picked to death by creatures otherwise immune to his abilities. If done in secret, the paladin should have no idea that this was your fault and the DM should have no reason to reveal it to you. Summon swarm and invisibility would give you cheaper method, and you could do it during combat to excuse the friendly fire, but the guardian wasps are the cleaner kill.


There is, to my knowledge, only one way in the game to turn into something that doesn't exist and it isn't alter self. Alter self allows you to turn into humanoids, and the multiverse, while huge, is populated by outsiders. Aliens within the prime material are frequently monstrous humanoids, so you're pretty limited there as well.

I personally allow players to turn into fictional races, but they are limited to fictional races that exist in the books rather than only those that exist in world.


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I hate bulk as much as everyone else, but a PF1 pony can only carry 100 pounds at light encumbrance. Small fullplate is 25, medium military saddle is 30, halfling is 30, lance is 10, small heavy metal shield is 7. That puts us at medium without a backpack or backup weapon.


The pathfinder buckler is more or less a lantern shield. It'd be used strapped to the arm or attached to a gauntlet and held across your chest using the light to blind your opponent. The only account of its use, written when the things were used, is about a Spanish street fight in 1623 and it goes into little detail being a first hand account of a street fight in the dark from someone being blinded by several tiny lanterns.
Sir Kenelm Digby's street fight

The details are vague and the method of use can only be assumed based on the shape of the items and the intent to blind an opponent. The most famous lantern shield is an absolute monstrosity that can be seen at the Kunsthistorisches Museum, and wielded in no safe and effective manner. Simpler, more sensible version, can be seen with little more than a hooded lantern fixed to the top. As near as I can tell they're curiosities and hand fashioned street fighting weapons, the sort of thing an adventurer could want and would like for fighting in small tunnels against day blind monsters.

All the same, fantasy shield use is completely divorced from historical shield use and would need major changes culminating in the removal of their usefulness with sufficiently heavy armor.


I figured they turned into something like a nesting doll for procreation and that they acquired something similar to their parent's form as their natural form.


Unfortunately the top shelf body shaping ability isn't available till 14th level as an evangelist of Socothbenoth.
"Three times per day, you can cast polymorph any object as a spell-like ability. Unlike with the spell, you are not limited to existing forms; you could turn the target into a three-headed nymph or a centaur-like creature made only of human body parts, for example (although this does not apply to inanimate forms, such as turning a human into a sculpture of soft clay or vice versa). You can also perform partial transformations, such as granting additional body parts, changing a creature’s limbs into something else, or transforming only a creature’s tongue into a tentacle."

I think if you went with that kraken caller as your main class, swarm shifter as your second class with that shifter prestigeing to evangelist at 5th level, heading toward socothbenoth, you'd be in good shape.

You could follow Mazmezz to turn into a drider at 11th level instead, earlier payoff but less flexibility.


The companion does get their extra action back when you pick up the mature companion feat or companion's cry for ranger, but horse doesn't learn to gallop till incredible companion at 6th for druid and 10th for ranger.

I'd just buy a horse and retrain to the companion feats later.


Riding on a standard horse and spending all your actions on command actions moves you 140 feet using one gallop and one stride. Monk elves could pull it off at 3rd level, and barbarian elves at 4th, but that shouldn't be so common as to put a mounted dwarf at constant disadvantage.


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It does strongly encourage dwarves to learn how to ride a horse.


The general order of events you need is this:
-The players discover that the theft was committed for a reason other than to steal the item.
-Another party discovers the planted item but doesn't know that the item was planted.
-The party intervenes on behalf of the accused.
-The party discovers proof of the real culprit and exposes the plot.

All of these events are required, so focus on degrees of success for each event. If you allow one event to solve another event, then the story will miss your archetypal plot beats. That's fine if you don't mind, but I imagine you do somewhat.

As a broader guideline.
The players know the accused couldn't have or wouldn't have committed the crime but can't say exactly why or what they know. Perhaps they're sworn to secrecy, they were committing their own criminal act while witnessing the proof, or they can't explain what they saw because they don't understand it.
The second party discovers the planted item and is taken in by the ruse, or are in on the plot to frame the apparent criminal.
The party can plead on behalf of the accused to have them held at the estate rather than turned over to the cops, they can plead for them to be left free and the house put on lock down so that everyone is treated equally in the investigation, or they can hide the accused till the figure out who really committed the crime.
The party could extract a confession from the real criminal, trick them into revealing themselves, straight up lie to convince others that a different party is responsible with no proof, discover further evidence of the planting and cover up.


Some hybrid archetypes would be nice. Advanced multiclassing feats that require access to two different class feat trees that gave some interclass support like letting barbarians add the rage trait to spell casting for a skald like archetype, or letting druids use their shape shifted attacks as strikes in monk class abilities rather than restricted to specific attacks to make a shifter type.

Stronger higher level multiclassing feats that let you increase the level at which you select your second class feats at the cost of reducing your main class feat selection would also be welcome.

Weapon summoners sound cool too, but I'd be curious to see what solution was developed to maintain the gold economy for a character who doesn't need weapons. A tattoo or ritual that cost as much as a appropriately leveled weapon with the shifting rune on it would probably be the easiest way.


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I agree completely. I look at the archetype frequently trying to make it work, or justify playing it despite the downgrade. I think giving the them the wizard school powers as focus powers and resonant powers would help quite a bit. The creatures themselves could use familiar style defense increases at least. Classes that can lose a chunk of their class power, like summoner and spiritualist, tend to have some backup that's only available when their core power is down. They'd either need a quicker way to recover the things, or a backup power that came online when they lost an elemental.

I'm also unsure how they are meant to act, and whether or not their "insubstantial" description is meant to be incorporeal or just fluff.

I'd probably fix them like this.
Treat the jin in all ways as a familiar. Grant the base elemental school power as a resonant power and their per day abilities as focus powers. Allow allied players to treat the jin as a familiar if they are given the jin to use their focus/resonant powers. Put their implements back on the regular schedule allowing them to chose jin or teach one of their existing jin one implement's powers with no jin being able to learn more than one implement's powers.


I'd bring it up in the archetype rating thread if you're interested to know why or get it changed. However, giving up half their focus powers, half their resonant powers, the ability to use panoplies, and having their class abilities vulnerable to aoe attacks, all make the archetype difficult to recommend. If there's some elemental school spell that balances out the exchange I didn't notice it in the list.


I'd say they either are treated as climbing up the side of the pit and maintain their position, or they jump to the nearest square provoking AoOs as normal for movement through threatened squares.


You have it right, but since half of your schools are elemental schools, you have half the focus and resonant powers a normal occultist would have.


The whole phrase is:
"Within the radius of the idealist’s channeling, all alignment and magic planar traits are suppressed and replaced with the traits of the plane that matches the idealist’s planar bond. This includes alignment, gravity, and magic traits"

That looks like it only includes magic and alignment traits to me, with your quoted line adding gravity. Regardless, having a suped up anti-magic field for (charisma+1)(charisma+3) rounds per day is pretty nice.


The risk would be the gun-shy DM not allowing the character in the first place.


Narratively, I imagine the force ward works similar to the force shields from the Dune books. If you attack too fast, the shield activates and prevents the attack, but if you go through slow enough, then you can get through. If a grappling arm hits and wraps around the bubble, it would be hitting something that provides resistance without substance and would be hitting something it couldn't grab.

Rules wise it's straight forward. If damage doesn't go through the shield, then the attack was a miss. Life(restoration) shamans or succor oracle's "shell of succor" does the same sort of thing.


Death druid would be a solid improvement over an actual spiritualist, but I'm not sure how it compares to a druid with wildshape and a pet. Having a better spell list to work with phantom's spell delivery options may be worth it, but I doubt it. Immune to negative energy and energy drain is a pretty good deal though.


I'm not sure on this, but it looks like spiked/bossed bucklers wouldn't always work with the doubling rings though as bucklers are strapped only and don't occupy the hand; unless you're using the spikes/boss as a weapon which do occupy the hand. That may require you putting a hand on the buckler as an interact though.


Hey now! I'm a transformers fan boy, and there's nothing you can say to convince me that it isn't important for "Melody Flux", my wyrwooden vigilante with malleable flesh, to preserve her daylight persona "animated wind up music box".

Jokes aside, yes you can ignore the ability and never use it. It may be harder to get a gun-shy DM to ignore it though, particularly since you're already playing a "serial killer", raising red flags for most DMs.


I'm a big fan of a similar build to the one I initially proposed that replaces all the rogue levels with vigilante levels for the twisting fear vigilante talent. Being able to hit everyone you intimidate with a few dice of non-lethal damage isn't super powerful, but it can set the scene well when the mooks pass out mid fight.
The main benefit of sticking with rogue requires a 2 level dip in slayer to pickup merciless butchery, a standard action coup de gras on cowering targets. You can pick up the studied target class feature through serial killer vigilante though, so that's another point in its favor.

Unfortunately, vigilante gives you a host of weird abilities that frequently don't fit a character concept.

There's also a cavalier order, order of vengeance, that increases the negatives from fear effects by a little. That seems much further away from your initial character concept though.


BellyBeard wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:

Also note that Spirit's wording on what the energy damage change is less clear (I think it's still the same intent, but it's definitively less clear)

Spirit Instinct wrote:
When you are raging, you can increase your damage from Rage from 2 to 3 and deal negative or positive damage, instead of the normal damage type for your weapon or unarmed attack (choose each time you Rage).

The "it" that is in the Dragon Instinct rage description (and clearly point to the rage damage) is missing here.

Mainly saying this so that people can be prepared to be on the look out in case players get confused.

I took the difference in wording to be intentional and to mean the whole attack's damage was changed, personally. Thought that's why they got a lesser damage increase, because they bypass physical resists when raging.

That's how I read it as well, but the sentence is punctuated oddly(on aon at least) so the meaning isn't clear. Since it doesn't reference additional damage, I'm not certain it's meant to target only the additional damage as the others do. But I do agree, if that were the case, it would be odd to make it ghost touch as well, I guess someone has to kill unseen servant revolutionaries.


I see the reason behind it, I just don't think the distinction is worth the effort on focus spells.


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Saros Palanthios wrote:
Set wrote:
Stack wrote:
Non-ability scores really are a pain to design around, so I am glad to see them gone.
Very glad to hear that nonabilities are dead as dodos.
Except for Familiars.

Which, no surprise, brings back the host of old non-ability issues from PF1.


That makes sense. I think a point of confusion may be that some abilities increase your focus pool +1 some set your focus pool to 1 and some do nothing, but those that set your pool to 1 also increase your pool by 1 if you already have a focus pool granted by a different ability. And the ability that grants that focus pool isn't the spell granted, it's the ability that grants the pool name and recovery method.

You could tag abilities like "devotion spells" and "order spells" with a "focus pool" trait to call those out as abilities that increase your pool by 1 when granted.

Or really, just give everyone 3 points, the distinction isn't worth the effort. You can only recover a point if you've used a point since last recovering, so a larger pool just means a once or twice per day burst of more than one focus spell spent.

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