Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness
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Wild, untamed lands hold a wealth of mystery and danger, providing the perfect backdrop for heroic adventure. Whether adventurers are climbing mountains in search of a dragon's lair, carving their way through the jungle, or seeking a long-lost holy city covered by desert sands, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness gives them the tools to survive the wilds. A new 20-level base class, the shifter, puts animalistic powers into the hands—or claws—of player characters and villains alike, with new class features derived from animalistic attributes. Overviews of druidic sects and rituals, as well as new archetypes, character options, spells, and more, round out the latest contribution to the Pathfinder RPG rules!

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness is an invaluable hardcover companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness includes:

  • The shifter, a new character class that harnesses untamed forces to change shape and bring a heightened level of savagery to the battlefield!
  • Archetypes for alchemists, barbarians, bards, druids, hunters, investigators, kineticists, paladins, rangers, rogues, slayers, witches, and more!
  • Feats and magic items for characters of all sorts granting mastery over the perils of nature and enabling them to harvest natural power by cultivating magical plants.
  • Dozens of spells to channel, protect, or thwart the powers of natural environs.
  • New and expanded rules to push your animal companions, familiars, and mounts to wild new heights.
  • A section on the First World with advice, spells, and other features to integrate the fey realm into your campaign.
  • Systems for exploring new lands and challenging characters with natural hazards and strange terrain both mundane and feytouched.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-986-8

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
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Another Great Hardback Update Collection!

5/5

Ultimate Wilderness is a much better book than some reviewers might lead you to believe. You get the new shifter class - which has had some basic errata since release - along with great archetypes for most of the other classes to help them fit into a wilderness-based campaign.

It's a great book to help players prepping to play something like Kingmaker or Ironfang Invasion. You get new spells, feats and a new exploration mode.

The book itself maintains the high quality of work that most Paizo products exhibit. The art in this book is some of my favorite in any of the hardback collections. There are a few updated spells that needed errata, such as snowball.

As a fan, I really like that several of the archetypes convert the flavor of many Game of Thrones characters into Pathfinder mechanics. What more could you ask for?


Lots of ptential, but none of it really sticks

2/5

I was extremely excited for this publication, so it's rather depressing how disappointing the books contents turned out to be.

The shifter class was an interesting idea, but when put down on paper is just druidic wild shape with hunter focus, in the form of aspects. It, unfortunately, never surpasses the druid in the wild shape department, and is, in fact, rather limited, and the temporary nature of all the aspects means that the shifter isn't terribly impressive in that regard either. The archetypes, both for the shifter and other classes, are interesting, but several suffer from massive drawbacks, for little to no gain. Like taking on druidic weapon/armor proficiencies and restrictions, including losing abilities for wearing metal, but don't gain any significant power to mkae up for it.

The new rules expansions are, for the most part, only thrown off by some conflicting skill applications (survival to harvest poison, but heal to take internal organ trophies?) but these are easy to ignore, or fix by homebrew. So these chapters are the most stable and useful of the lot.

One of the most exciting discoveries was the Cultivate Magic Plants feat, allowing you to grow plants that copy spell effects, but the price tag attached to them, especially when attached to something with the considerable disadvantages of being an immobile magical item, makes it entirely useless next to the crafting cost of regular magical items, especially if you have a GM that's willing to allow players to use the rules on creating new magical items. Just for an example, a goodberry bush can fully feed 2 people per day forever... for 4000 GP to craft. While you could make an item to infinitely cast goodberry for 2000 gp if you have to wear it, or better yet create food and water (for about 30000).

In conclusion, the book has a lot of cool stuff in it, but only for GMs. Players won't be able to make good use of many of the archetypes and feats as they revolve too much around staying in a single environment or working with nonsensical restrictions. While many of the feats are just too focused (or expensive) to be useful except to an NPC. GMs, grab it, it's got good stuff, but players will (and should) probably stick to what they've already got.


Everything I wanted from Ultimate Wilderness

4/5

Great race write ups, a fun new class (that doesn't require a ton of source books to play) and tons of information and systems to run a wilderness adventure or spice up the wilderness sections of any game. Definitely happy to add this one to my bookshelf.


Reprinted material, lack of clarity

1/5

First off, I'm a huge fan of Pathfinder. But I'm not a fan of "Ultimate Wilderness." There are a number of issues with the content in the book, mostly the clarity of language. A lot of the rules seem unclear and not straightforward. The shifter is the biggest example of this.
To be honest I was looking forward to the shifter, being far more robust than it actually is. And I understand that this is my issue with what I expected from them, but what built up my anticipation of the shifter was the quality of past classes released by Paizo: summoner, alchemist, witch, bloodrager, investigator, brawler, spiritualist, medium (even if it isn't harrowed), magus, ninja, hunter and so on and so forth.
Past that, I'm not a big fan of the reprinted material because I buy the smaller books. If I'm buying the smaller books why would I want to buy them again with a hardcover?
That being said, I'm still a big Pathfinder fan, but I'd like for future releases to take a different developmental cycle than what "Ultimate Wilderness" received. This book seems like it lacked editing and playtesting.


4/5


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Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Feros wrote:
Chemlak wrote:
... There is, though, a downside. And that downside is the first two sentences of the Creating A Territory section: The CR of a territory (which determines the DC for all checks involving that territory) is based on APL (modifiable by the GM). Which makes this subsystem fall flat for sandbox games. I want to see a Territory CR chart which sets a base CR based on terrain, modified by proximity to settlements, what plane of existence you’re on and from, and a few dozen other modifiers to allow a GM to then plug that into this system in a way that’s not tied directly to the level of the party.
Actually—as you point out a little bit in the part I emphasized—the CR can vary as much as the GM decides or if it fits the story better. It is simply that "typically" it is tied to the APL. So adding in threats that are not tied to the APL is fully allowed and can set up situations in a sandbox where only foolish PCs dare to tread.

if the players wander into the mountain giants cave/castle at low level, its up to them at that point to think of a way out of this that doesnt involve becoming a bowel movement or a stain on the mountain giants hammer/floor. the players either need to be lucky or smart to come out alive, let alone with some small victory. that is something that can be done.


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Wannabe Demon Lord wrote:

I don't really know what to think of the Shifter yet, but I suspect this book will be worth the pdf price at the very least based on the Animal/Vermin/Plant companions and familiars alone. I mean, that's an absolutely awesome list.

First off, there is, finally, an animal-companion compatible saber-tooth. I've been waiting for that for years. It's kind of a classic image in any prehistory-related adventure series, the barbarian hero and the Smilodon companion. Having Smilodons be relegated to out-of-reach Dire Animals when you could keep a Giganotosaurus as a pet always seemed really silly to me. Thylacoleo is a wonderful choice as well.

Also, Prionosuchus. What an excellent choice! We really need more palaeozoic creatures in this game.

Vermin Companions. I had always been really disappointed that all the vermin past the first Bestiary weren't companion compatible. And now, that problem is at least starting to be fixed.

All in all, I'll have to wait to see what I think of everything else, but overall, I'm really excited about the animals. Still waiting for an official Carnotaurus, though. Oh well, maybe Bestiary 7 will have one.

Yeah, the expanded companions list is definitely a welcome addition. I've been wanting to make a more prehistoric-themed kinda Ranger, and the Sabertooth sounds perfect for that.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

The First World and Green Faith entries are admittedly mostly flavour text as opposed to mechanics, but they do include two archetypes for the Green Faith (Druid and Inquistor, respectively) and a list of hazards from the First World.

With all the fey found in the six bestiary books, the flavour description is really all that is required to set adventures there when paired with the specific hazards.

My particular favorite is the Weeping Waste, areas in which loneliness and depression can overwhelm the sense and make getting out of the area a great challenge unto itself. The whole of it reads as chapter from an adventure in the fey lands similar to the effects shown in the second Hobbit movie as they enter the Mirkwood. While not canonical to Tolkien, it would make for a very challenging encounter spot in an adventure.

The same "we have most of the mechanical stuff already" situation applies to the Green Faith. Info on the faith, how it works, who is involved, the orders and hierarchy are what are required to use them in adventures.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

well, the first world is a place where wild magic is prevelant and the rules of nature and physics don't always fly in a logical fashion. I imagine the gm can chose to make each location as bizzare or hostile as he wants. the plain of doors could prove quite horrendous if the players say opened one to the wrong place at the wrong time. Like opening the door to a town getting hit my a giant tidalwave.

It also seems like a good way to inject a bit of lucid fun into the game. encountering a giants castle in the clouds by going up an enormous beanstalk, facing of against a monstrous man-eating wolf monster with a taste for women, or even having tea with some bizzare fellows and talking animals.

The first world is rife for that kind of thing.

Paizo Employee Starfinder Society Developer

6 people marked this as a favorite.
KingOfNinjas wrote:
There are five new rituals. My favorite is for putting kaiju back into their dormant state with Perform checks.

This was entirely a case of me jotting down a bunch of random ritual concepts. The whole "put Godzilla back to sleep" idea went on that list. When it came time to lock-in what rituals I was going to write for this section, I re-read the list, then realized James Jacobs (known kaiju enthusiast) was developing the book, and then made darn sure that this ritual got in!

shaventalz wrote:

Goblin Fishing Lure: ...was this designed by goblins, or is it for people who want to catch one? Either way, I'm worried.

Funny story on this item! I was playing through Final Fantasy XV with my partner, and she was INTENSE into the fishing mini-game. When I was coming up with new mundane gear to include in my turnover (a hard thing, considering what's already in print) I was bouncing ideas off her while she was playing the fishing game. I think she ended up complaining about not having the right lure to catch the specific fish she wanted... and so, the Goblin Fishing Lure was born!

Seriously, I was VERY surprised to see it get artwork!


12 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:

...

Welcome to the world of creating content for anonymous, socially challenged nerds.

It's bad enough to have this sort of negative stereotyping directed at gamers from the public at large, but having gamers display this sort of bigotry toward other community members is disgusting. And I'm truly appalled that so many people thought this comment was worth favoriting. This thread has become completely toxic. I'm out of here.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Alright since it seems we're not allowed to talk about the Shifter anymore, I'll talk about animal companions:

Grizzly Bear
Positive: Yay we finally got a large size bear!
Negative: Since it only gets a +4 to Str upon hitting large size(21 total), it ends up with a lower Str score than a Cow(22) or Hunting Cactus(22).... and the same Str score as a Giant Frilled Lizard(21)

And because Cats must always be the best, the Saber-Toothed Cat ends up with a Str score of 23.....

We do finally get animal companions with damaging ranged attacks, the Corpse-Eater Fungus, and Sniper Cactus.

Oh also we finally get official clarification of the issue with the Animal Companion Archetypes that replace Share Spells on classes that don't get them, like the Cavalier and Samurai. Sadly they chose not to go with this unoffical clarification by the writer and instead decided to nerf the two classes into giving up the ability to start with Light Armor Proficiency on their AC and their ability to ignore the armor check penalty when riding them. To add insult to injure only 3 out of the 16 archetypes in the book don't give up the Share Spells ability. Also ACs with more than one natural attack and only primary natural attacks can't take an archetype that trades out Multiattack for some reason. Was all this really necessary?


Do fey get an actual theme in this book, or are they still portrayed as a mishmash of "Nature Spirits + Demigods + folk legends"?


sunderedhero wrote:
Oh also we finally get official clarification of the issue with the Animal Companion Archetypes that replace Share Spells on classes that don't get them, like the Cavalier and Samurai. Sadly they chose not to go with this unoffical clarification by the writer and instead decided to nerf the two classes into giving up the ability to start with Light Armor Proficiency on their AC and their ability to ignore the armor check penalty when riding them. To add insult to injure only 3 out of the 16 archetypes in the book don't give up the Share Spells ability. Also ACs with more than one natural attack and only primary natural attacks can't take an archetype that trades out Multiattack for some reason. Was all this really necessary?

PFS currently uses the following "clarification" (errata) for the Charger archetype:

Quote:
In the charger archetype's mounted challenge, replace the sentence "This ability replaces share spells" with "The cavalier's mount only gains half the listed number of bonus tricks (minimum 0)."

Are the archetypes written in a way that is incompatible with this, or that implies a different team chose a different "fix"?


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Gisher wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

...

Welcome to the world of creating content for anonymous, socially challenged nerds.
It's bad enough to have this sort of negative stereotyping directed at gamers from the public at large, but having gamers display this sort of bigotry toward other community members is disgusting. And I'm truly appalled that so many people thought this comment was worth favoriting. This thread has become completely toxic. I'm out of here.

If the community is looking for less stereotyping, we may want to ramp back on the knee jerk reactions for reviews. 1 Star reviews with barely a line of text that is summed up with "Shifter sucks, so the whole book sucks."

Another review, one star, that says the book is full of great art, flavor, concepts and options but the shifter sucks so one star.

Tanking the rating isn't going to change the book or suddenly make the shifter work the way some want. The book gets a wider release in a few days and hopefully tempers will have cooled and people can give the ENTIRE book a look rather than focusing on the thing that upsets them.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm excited for this book. I think there is a ton of content so far that I'm going to be using as soon as possible. I'm also in the middle of making a Shifter for long term campaign.

I'm also appalled by the shifter design and I hope we can get together as a community and ask for some quality of life changes for it. This isn't like the Kineticist which was so dense people couldn't get a feel for it. The Shifter is plainly lacking in features, and testing out builds isn't going to magically make them appear. I'm actually surprised that there are people arguing that there is nothing wrong with it.

The people who are unhappy with the class are far from just grumpy, unpleasable, no-life netizens. We're by and large reasonable, with reasonable concerns and there has been a ton of constructive criticism in this thread.

Note to the forum moderator who has to clean all this up tomorrow: You can delete this post too.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:

You've missed the "negativity is oh so much easier than positivity" memo.

People want X, they get X and barely notice. People want X, they don't get X. 1/5 STARS PAIZO YOU PRETTY MUCH RUINED MY LIFE NOW. Welcome to the world of creating content for anonymous, socially challenged nerds.

I would say that's off the mark. People were told (or at least felt that was the message) they were getting Y....then got X. If people had been told they were getting X...then they would have been expecting X.

Personally I think comments about "lazy" development, and suggesting people should loose their jobs are just people being drama queens...which is certainly common enough on line...but childish and accomplishes nothing.

That said, learning from this and trying to improve handling of expectations in the future is certainly a worthy goal....

As one of the people extremely disappointed in the Shifter, I would certainly like to see errata, rather than having to wait for an archetype that actually fixes many of the concerns (or worse, an archetype, and an entire tree of feats)....but the Dev's will be the ones to determine how best to address that.

I also wish we could find a happy medium in regards to playtests....I think they are extremely useful....but also understand that given peoples on line behavior they can also become extremely toxic.

Will I buy the book ?.....who am I kidding, I have bought every book since Pathfinder started (except the Kobold book....I hate Kobolds)..

It sounds like there are plenty of gems in here to make it worth the PDF price.

That doesn't change the fact that I'm very disappointed in the Shifter, which was my primary interest for the last several months waiting for this to hit publication. Several months of anticipation....followed by a big let down...is GOING to cause some disappointment and bruised feelings.......deal with it ;)


shaventalz wrote:
Are the archetypes written in a way that is incompatible with this, or that implies a different team chose a different "fix"?

The Charger AC archetype isn't actually in the book for some reason. The other three from the Animal Archive are, but were reprinted unchanged so they still list stuff replacing "share spells".


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I have not posted a review yet because there has already been mention of hot-fixes by the developers, and I'm figuratively holding my breath that they will be as comprehensive as the ACG fixes were.

This was going to be the big deal, the reason I actually went subscriber on the hardcovers -- right now the book is leaving me with a significant amount of disappointment, and not just from character and character classes... it feels 'flat' somehow, and I don't know if that's because I was oversold a bill a goods, or if my expectations were too high, or what.

I'm hoping for the best, dreading the worst, and perhaps maybe it'll fall somewhere in between that will get this rotten feeling to go away?


5 people marked this as a favorite.

All right, time for the results of my second look through at some random companion/familiar stuff!

Holy cow, giant mosquitos are terrifying. Throw Animal Growth on there (just remember not to trade out Share Spells with an archetype) for a mosquito the size of a horse.

Feat chain to make animal companions really good at pinpointing invisible creatures is cool for a specialist.

Animal companion archetype that's better at tracking by scent is something I've wanted for a while, and goes well with the animal companion feat that allows picking up the owner's track ability.

Every Gunslinger should invest the feats to get a tumbleweed familiar.

Butterfly familiar is really good on a Bard, and an awesome visual to boot.

The animal companion feat to improve Intimidate (doesn't work with Intimidating Prowess) and make it a move action is a nice option for single natural attack animal companions.

Ranged plant companion is an interesting option.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Sat down last night with herolab and worked out the numbers for the Shifter. Turns out once you factor in things like the major form abilities, feats and things like Bestial rags they are a lot tankier/stronger than predicted.

I took a look at the Dire bear, Dire Tiger and Dire Wolverine forms and the second they hit 4 they are pretty nasty. Things like rage, size bonuses and super early access to pounce make them rather potent.

Bestial Rags are a steal for the price and open up picking up a utility/movement aspect much more palatable. (8k gold for evasion/improved evasion? +5 minutes of minor aspects? yes please). This means you can have a combat form/ a flight form and a utility form by about levels 6/7.

Strength builds are more viable than I thought with Size bonuses alleviating a lot of the MAD concerns I had on my first read through.

Later I plan to see how a high dex build goes with both the published and errata versions of Shifters edge in play.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
QuidEst wrote:

All right, time for the results of my second look through at some random companion/familiar stuff!

Holy cow, giant mosquitos are terrifying. Throw Animal Growth on there (just remember not to trade out Share Spells with an archetype) for a mosquito the size of a horse.

Feat chain to make animal companions really good at pinpointing invisible creatures is cool for a specialist.

Animal companion archetype that's better at tracking by scent is something I've wanted for a while, and goes well with the animal companion feat that allows picking up the owner's track ability.

Every Gunslinger should invest the feats to get a tumbleweed familiar.

Butterfly familiar is really good on a Bard, and an awesome visual to boot.

The animal companion feat to improve Intimidate (doesn't work with Intimidating Prowess) and make it a move action is a nice option for single natural attack animal companions.

Ranged plant companion is an interesting option.

Can we get more info on those ranged plant companions? What sort of attack do they get, and how does their damage potential stack up to other options?


Tumbleweed familiar? I missed that in the previous book summaries. Details?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
Dαedαlus wrote:
Tumbleweed familiar? I missed that in the previous book summaries. Details?

Ravenous Tumbleweed:
Familiar bonus: a 10 foot bonus to speed in charging, running, and withdrawing.

This more carnivorous version of the plant hunts down small to large game in "drifts" (3–12 plants) when ground nutrition gets scarce.


WatersLethe wrote:
Can we get more info on those ranged plant companions? What sort of attack do they get, and how does their damage potential stack up to other options?

Companion, singular. The sniper cactus can fire needles, which is pretty cool. It's not the best ranged attack out there, but it beats a crossbow, and they do have a melee attack.

Dαedαlus wrote:
Tumbleweed familiar? I missed that in the previous book summaries. Details?

Indeed, you can get a ravenous tumbleweed. It's not a super-strong option mechanically, but it's cool. (Non-traditional familiar bonus, too!) Mostly it just charges at enemies. There are a number of new plant and vermin familiars. I also like the giant tardigrade.


QuidEst wrote:
WatersLethe wrote:
Can we get more info on those ranged plant companions? What sort of attack do they get, and how does their damage potential stack up to other options?
Companion, singular. The sniper cactus can fire needles, which is pretty cool. It's not the best ranged attack out there, but they get a melee attack too.

There's also the Corpse-Eater Fungus that has a ranged touch attack that does acid damage. As far as damage goes, 1d6->1d8 for the acid and 1d8->2d6 for the Sniper Cactus' piercing thorn.


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Feros wrote:
Dαedαlus wrote:
Tumbleweed familiar? I missed that in the previous book summaries. Details?
** spoiler omitted **

I need a tiny wizard running around in one


7 people marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
But it's so much less cathartic to give constructive feedback and politely explain what it will take to earn your patronage in the future instead!

Yep, and when you try that YOU get toxic feedback...

I tried to explain why I don't buy Paizo anymore without looking them over first and you'd think I was suggestion I was planning on kicking puppies from the responses I got. Some people see ANY negative feedback as toxic and work hard at overreacting to it.

Gorbacz wrote:
People want X, they get X and barely notice. People want X, they don't get X. 1/5 STARS PAIZO YOU PRETTY MUCH RUINED MY LIFE NOW.

It's understandable if you take the time to look at it from the perspective from the person making the review. If the ONLY reason they got the book was the awesome shifter class they were promised, it's unsurprising that they'd be disappointed that it failed to meet their expectations. The stars reflects how pleased with the product the person was. If you aren't pleased, you give a low number. If you buy a car and it doesn't run, you most likely aren't going to gush over how good the sound system was...

Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it...


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Bestial Rags are a relatively cheap (8000 GP) body slot magic item that greatly expands the variety of forms available to a Shifter. A high level Shifter who owns a set of Bestial Rags for every aspect he does not naturally know has access to literally every Shifter aspect. At present, the only limitation he would face is being limited to one unknown aspect at a time -- all aspects beyond the single unknown aspect granted by the Rags must be known aspects.

The major problem with this item is that it competes with the Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes for the body slot.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it...

You should look at one of the recent reviews.

Alright then, more non-shifter stuff to discuss, feats! Note that this is obviously just my opinion but I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I'll assume I can't post the names of every feat yet, so you get to make do with the first letters of each word.

---Feats---110 total
Will Never Be Taken/NPC Feats(53): AA, AC, AD, AA, BH, BP, CT, CC, CT, DD, EGM, EC, EE, EAF, EA, FT, FM, F, FS, GBH, GWS, GSS, HTF, HW, IC, IBH, INPH, IWS, IA, JP, JS, LotL, M, NPA, NPH, NF, OEO, OwtL, PN, RR, RS, SotL, SS, S, TT, TL, TH, WS, WS, WS, W, WC, WW

Might Be Taken By Specialists/Campaign Dependant(26): AC, AS, BBR, BD, CA, CP, CMP, DT, DD, E-E, ES, FI, F-G, M, OotS, TotH, VS, VC, VoB, WC, WGC, WGH, WV, W, WM, WR

Useful in General(16): EM, EM, EWS, EH, FP, FC, GHB, GSA, IHB, ISA, MS, NSH, SR, TD, TI, TM

Gonna Get the Nerfbat(1): Shifter's Edge

Good Style Feats(6): BS->S->I, CWS->B->F

Bad Style Feats(6): IMS->P->A, WS->T->S

Nonfunctional/Redundant(2): AF, NW

So in my opinion 55% of the feats in the book won't ever be used, not a great number.

Also here are the reprinted feats: Ambush Awareness, Aquatic Combatant, Aquatic Spell, Brance Pounce, Clinging Climber, Desert Dweller, Earth Magic, Extended Animal Focus, Fey Performance, Forbane Magic, Group Share Spells, Harder They Fall, Jaguar Pounce, One Eye Open, Out of the Sun, River Raider, Scion of the Land, Tribal Hunter, Verdant Spell, Waterway Caster, Witchbreaker, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip. Note that these feats are included in the above breakdown.

24 in total, which means 21% of the feats in the book are reprints....

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
sunderedhero wrote:
graystone wrote:
Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it...

You should look at one of the recent reviews.

Alright then, more non-shifter stuff to discuss, feats! Note that this is obviously just my opinion but I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I'll assume I can't post the names of every feat yet, so you get to make do with the first letters of each word.

---Feats---110 total
Will Never Be Taken/NPC Feats(53): AA, AC, AD, AA, BH, BP, CT, CC, CT, DD, EGM, EC, EE, EAF, EA, FT, FM, F, FS, GBH, GWS, GSS, HTF, HW, IC, IBH, INPH, IWS, IA, JP, JS, LotL, M, NPA, NPH, NF, OEO, OwtL, PN, RR, RS, SotL, SS, S, TT, TL, TH, WS, WS, WS, W, WC, WW

Might Be Taken By Specialists/Campaign Dependant(26): AC, AS, BBR, BD, CA, CP, CMP, DT, DD, E-E, ES, FI, F-G, M, OotS, TotH, VS, VC, VoB, WC, WGC, WGH, WV, W, WM, WR

Useful in General(16): EM, EM, EWS, EH, FP, FC, GHB, GSA, IHB, ISA, MS, NSH, SR, TD, TI, TM

Gonna Get the Nerfbat(1): Shifter's Edge

Good Style Feats(6): BS->S->I, CWS->B->F

Bad Style Feats(6): IMS->P->A, WS->T->S

Nonfunctional/Redundant(2): AF, NW

So in my opinion 55% of the feats in the book won't ever be used, not a great number.

Also here are the reprinted feats: Ambush Awareness, Aquatic Combatant, Aquatic Spell, Brance Pounce, Clinging Climber, Desert Dweller, Earth Magic, Extended Animal Focus, Fey Performance, Forbane Magic, Group Share Spells, Harder They Fall, Jaguar Pounce, One Eye Open, Out of the Sun, River Raider, Scion of the Land, Tribal Hunter, Verdant Spell, Waterway Caster, Witchbreaker, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip. Note that these feats are included in the above breakdown.

24 in total, which means 21% of the feats in the book are reprints....

I don't take number of reprints into account when assessing value. Since I don't exhaustively collect softcovers, reprints are useful to me as a place of collected themed feats.

For hardcore collectors I understand why it might be an issue, but soft-cover feats don't end up in the PRD, so they are far less useful.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I don't take number of reprints into account when assessing value. Since I don't exhaustively collect softcovers, reprints are useful to me as a place of collected themed feats.

For hardcore collectors I understand why it might be an issue, but soft-cover feats don't end up in the PRD, so they are far less useful.

True, I was just listing it as another data point. Also if you want the soft-cover materials without have to sort through the 3p stuff on the pfsrd you can always use Archives of Nethys.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
sunderedhero wrote:
graystone wrote:
Now if someone bought the book for the sole reason that it had a big bear, I'd expect a higher star rating than someone looking for a shifter, master of shapeshifting, and not finding it...

You should look at one of the recent reviews.

Alright then, more non-shifter stuff to discuss, feats! Note that this is obviously just my opinion but I tried to be as objective as possible. Also I'll assume I can't post the names of every feat yet, so you get to make do with the first letters of each word.

---Feats---110 total
Will Never Be Taken/NPC Feats(53): AA, AC, AD, AA, BH, BP, CT, CC, CT, DD, EGM, EC, EE, EAF, EA, FT, FM, F, FS, GBH, GWS, GSS, HTF, HW, IC, IBH, INPH, IWS, IA, JP, JS, LotL, M, NPA, NPH, NF, OEO, OwtL, PN, RR, RS, SotL, SS, S, TT, TL, TH, WS, WS, WS, W, WC, WW

Might Be Taken By Specialists/Campaign Dependant(26): AC, AS, BBR, BD, CA, CP, CMP, DT, DD, E-E, ES, FI, F-G, M, OotS, TotH, VS, VC, VoB, WC, WGC, WGH, WV, W, WM, WR

Useful in General(16): EM, EM, EWS, EH, FP, FC, GHB, GSA, IHB, ISA, MS, NSH, SR, TD, TI, TM

Gonna Get the Nerfbat(1): Shifter's Edge

Good Style Feats(6): BS->S->I, CWS->B->F

Bad Style Feats(6): IMS->P->A, WS->T->S

Nonfunctional/Redundant(2): AF, NW

So in my opinion 55% of the feats in the book won't ever be used, not a great number.

Also here are the reprinted feats: Ambush Awareness, Aquatic Combatant, Aquatic Spell, Brance Pounce, Clinging Climber, Desert Dweller, Earth Magic, Extended Animal Focus, Fey Performance, Forbane Magic, Group Share Spells, Harder They Fall, Jaguar Pounce, One Eye Open, Out of the Sun, River Raider, Scion of the Land, Tribal Hunter, Verdant Spell, Waterway Caster, Witchbreaker, Wolf Savage, Wolf Style, Wolf Trip. Note that these feats are included in the above breakdown.

24 in total, which means 21% of the feats in the book are reprints....

I wish more of those feats were wild shape feats or feats that dealt with natural attacks.


I like large bear. How about stronger gorilla's?


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I won't wade into this other than to say that I don't think we need to "review the reviews." They stand for themselves, whether they say positive or negative things.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, yeah, but it gets into what people were discussing previously: When people see that multiple people are giving it 1/5, it gives them urge to counter review that in which in turn gives other people urge to counter counter review ._.

Anyhoo, btw regarding reprints, how many of reprints have been nerfed/somehow changed from their original version?


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David knott 242 wrote:
Bestial Rags are a relatively cheap (8000 GP) body slot magic item that greatly expands the variety of forms available to a Shifter.

I'm a bit conflicted by the price. You're looking around 6th before you can realistically afford one [you need an amulet to bypass DR magic too, along with other basics], and the price is large enough where you'll have to be fairly high level to get a fair selection on forms with them. So with the games I play tending to end @ 12th level, I'm unlikely to see anywhere close to a full collection.

So I see the item as nice but it's not a panacea for what ails the Shifter.

Inkfist wrote:
Strength builds are more viable than I thought with Size bonuses alleviating a lot of the MAD concerns I had on my first read through.

Has there been a confirmation that the shifter gets Size bonuses?


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greystone wrote:
Has there been a confirmation that the shifter gets Size bonuses?

Seeing as It is worded as shifter Wildshape counts as Beast shape two the following is in play

"Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus."

David knott 242 wrote:

The major problem with this item (Bestial rags) is that it competes with the Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes for the body slot.

Why buy a bodywrap of mighty strikes when for most forms an amulet of mighty fists is the better option? Seeing as you get scaling bonuses to natural armour it's not competing for your neck slot in terms of the big six.


Inkfist wrote:
Seeing as It is worded as shifter Wildshape counts as Beast shape two the following is in play

It mentions you only get what each aspect says you get and mentions "size dependent" abilities, but that could mean just the default abilities of the size:

"Large: -1 size penalty to their AC, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 bonus on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a -4 size penalty on Stealth checks. Takes up a space that is 10 Feet by 10 feet, and has a reach of 5 feet."

I'd be more inclined to think stats were included if it mentioned stats at all but it's silent on it just saying 'abilities'. I normally don't think of stats as falling under abilities so I want to make sure what they mean.

Inkfist wrote:
Why buy a bodywrap of mighty strikes when for most forms an amulet of mighty fists is the better option? Seeing as you get scaling bonuses to natural armour it's not competing for your neck slot in terms of the big six.

Because a amulet of natural could fit there? The body is not used for one of the big 6 so normally the body wraps would be a perfect fit. Now you have to pick between more aspects or more armor.


Wildshape is worded as functioning as Beast shape II with the exception that it is tied to one of your selected aspects.

This is exactly the same as a Wildshaping 6th level druid. Both get the tiny/large size bonuses from beast shape II. (otherwise it would be called out in the in the "Acts like beast shape II *except* part)

As for the body wrap, I find it hard to justify waiting till level 11 to gain your enhancement bonuses to 3 attacks, seeing as its both barely cheaper than the amulet and that most combat forms have 3 natural attacks at level 4. Seeing as with feats some forms can have up to six attacks the bodywrap will never be as slot effective or gold effective as the amulet version.

As for an amulet of natural armor, defensive instinct gives up to a +5 bonus to AC on top of whichever wisdom modifier to AC you are using.


Inkfist: "Acts like beast shape II *except* part" could mean the "allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the animal type". You could be right that it includes stats and nat armor, but with the *except* part in there I want to make sure. With the way some FAQ's have been ruled #, I want it crystal clear what I get.

# [see ammo and magic bow FAQ. Just because an answer seems clear and obvious doesn't mean it's the correct answer. :P]

Body wraps: At 6th, it covers your 'shifters claws', which is your scaling damage/dr bypassing attacks. Those are also your Shifter's edge attacks, so a dex build is going to be using them the most. Not getting it on a bite isn't the best but hardly game changing.

So while it isn't the best for a 6 attack build, it's pretty good for other builds.

Amulet: It's up to 5 AC difference. A shifters AC isn't good enough that an extra 5 AC is something to be scoffed at.


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Well considering that the druid's wild shape grants size bonuses to stats and the shifter has wild shape...basically... I don't see a reason why they wouldn't get those bonuses as well.


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I have not posted a review yet because there has already been mention of hot-fixes by the developers, and I'm figuratively holding my breath that they will be as comprehensive as the ACG fixes were.

Mind if I ask were you heard this ?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
nighttree wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I have not posted a review yet because there has already been mention of hot-fixes by the developers, and I'm figuratively holding my breath that they will be as comprehensive as the ACG fixes were.
Mind if I ask were you heard this ?

Pretty sure he's just referring to the Shifter's Edge errata that's planned to make sure it's dex to attack, strength to damage and 1/2 level bonus damage.


WatersLethe wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I have not posted a review yet because there has already been mention of hot-fixes by the developers, and I'm figuratively holding my breath that they will be as comprehensive as the ACG fixes were.
Mind if I ask were you heard this ?
Pretty sure he's just referring to the Shifter's Edge errata that's planned to make sure it's dex to attack, strength to damage and 1/2 level bonus damage.

So a hot-NERF?


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WatersLethe wrote:
nighttree wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I have not posted a review yet because there has already been mention of hot-fixes by the developers, and I'm figuratively holding my breath that they will be as comprehensive as the ACG fixes were.
Mind if I ask were you heard this ?
Pretty sure he's just referring to the Shifter's Edge errata that's planned to make sure it's dex to attack, strength to damage and 1/2 level bonus damage.

Original post here - it's a mere 14 pages back.

Or, you know, less than 10 once the mods come through and delete posts.

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