Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

Well if we are going to have a shape shifting themed archetype for bard then why not ones for hunter, rogue, ranger, slayer, swashbuckler, medium, spiritualist, and monk.

First let's get the obvious ones out of the way.

As for the others, what would be fair to lose for the Rogue, Slayer, Swashbuckler, Medium, Spiritualist, Monk, or Bard to gain wild shape or an equivalent ability, whether based on the Shifter's or not?

Yeah Gold, like your the only one who wants a dragon based shifter archetype;)

What I was thinking for the ranger was that you could change into a specific animal or type of animal at will.

A hunter archetype that gains a plant companion and can change into plants and plant creatures.

Is it safe to assume that the section on the First World will contain campaign setting specific information?

Is it safe to assume that the section on the First World will contain campaign setting specific information?

I would think it would have to...otherwise you have two different "First Worlds", right?

They included a section on the Boneyard in Occult Adventures. I suspect that the presentation here will be similar in terms of setting-specific information.

The Boneyard is an interesting example. There is an entry in the GameMastery Guide for Purgatory (very short, setting-neutral), whereas Occult Adventures gave us more detailed and setting-specific information. It is not entirely clear whether one supersedes the other or not. (I'm still unhappy about how Occult Adventures changed/expanded on planar cosmology by making everything occult, but that seems to be the way it is). Then again, Occult Adventures does not claim to change planar cosmology per se but offers an occult perspective instead.

The short summaries below offer an occult viewpoint on the realms generally referred to as the Esoteric Planes.

So the First World section could be setting-agnostic, setting-specific, or give us a particular perspective on the First World based on the book's general theme.

Do you listen to Know Direction? Pretty sure James Jacobs was on a few weeks ago and explained that the Roleplaying line was going to be getting more setting-specific material. (This might be it)

See also: Adventurer's Guide, Book of the Damned

I don't want to rehash old debates on this topic, I'm just curious. Expanded rules on 'shaping' (as described in First World, Realm of the Fey), for example, don't need to be setting-specific.

Then again, Occult Adventures does not claim to change planar cosmology per se but offers an occult perspective instead.

Occult Adventures 238 wrote:

The short summaries below offer an occult viewpoint on the realms generally referred to as the Esoteric Planes.

That's the way of it. There's even a lovely piece of art with Enora the arcanist and Rivani the psychic in a heated scholarly debate about the true nature of the planes.

We have plenty of time to debate the true nature of the planes before this book comes out;)

Is there anything about Planar Wilderness in this book?

HenshinFanatic - While I don't know the other classes well enough to say without significantly more thought, the rogue class has plenty of things that could be retooled for a shiftery type dealio, especially the unchained rogue. For example, rogue's edge and the related skill unlocks could be replaced with skill related animal morphs, along the lines of pick a skill, gain the ability to morph bits and pieces of the body to gain additional uses/ability with said skill, so like sleight of hand could cause a monkey morph, growing a prehensile tail and more dexterous feet (ie, hands instead of feet), that sort of thing, fly could grow glidy fleshy bits under the arms and between the legs like a flying squirrel (or that could be for acrobatics, I don't judge), etc.

Alternatively (or in addition), a number of rogue talents could be replaced with other utility shifties, more partial morphs, like bits and pieces of the rogue shift to corresponding bits and pieces of various animals to aid with certain tasks as the situation demands.

Also, sneak attack could be altered with instead of every other level you gain an extra d6 damage for when nobody's looking, you gain an extra natural attack for when nobody's, they are all primary natural attacks, but you only get them when the conditions for sneak attack are met!

(I really find the idea of growing natural attacks as a sneak attack to be hilarious, a halfling with this ability and the childlike feats is in town, the townsfolk find the corpse of a huge monster on the outskirts of town, terribly and gruesomely mauled, and they wonder what could have possibly done THAT to THAT?! the filthy little vagrant kid who showed up the other day says "I did it, I'm a powerful adventurer!" No one believes him, but he says he can prove it, everyone stares at him with mild amusement to see what he is going to do, he sighs with exasperation and says, "well I can't do it with everyone staring at me, like that!!!" Everyone laughs, and he says, "No, seriously, trust me, if everyone would just look that way..." he points in the other direction, the crowd begrudgingly obliges, and when absolutely no one is looking at the kid, he suddenly grows ten feet tall, and a crap ton of tentacles with claws at the end grows from his body, and he just eviscerates the entire crowd in only six seconds. The end.)

A monk archetype that lets them change into an animal(or animals) based on a martial arts style like monkey, mantis, tiger, etc. would be interesting.

I wonder if they will be a new take on poly morphing with the shifter. Or if it will be just like the druids.

A monk archetype that lets them change into an animal(or animals) based on a martial arts style like monkey, mantis, tiger, etc. would be interesting.

Thinking of Bloody Roar for some reasons.

Would love archetypes for bards, monks, rogues, and swashbucklers that grant them wild empathy and woodland stride.

Would love archetypes for barbarians, brawlers, druids, hunters, rangers, etc. that loose armor prof. for a monk-like AC, a hefty natural armor, constant mage armor, or some other mechanic so they don't need armor for a good AC. Heck I would like something like this for every class that has armor prof. Maybe instead of archetype as some kind of optional rules.

Dragon78 wrote:

A monk archetype that lets them change into an animal(or animals) based on a martial arts style like monkey, mantis, tiger, etc. would be interesting.

Thinking of Bloody Roar for some reasons.

Loved that game (well, 2 and Primal Fury more than the first). But my first thought was the Form Mimicry of Lime, Mint, and Herb from Ranma 1/2.

Come to think of it, they could just give wild empathy(slayer already has it) and woodland stride as rogue talents.

I really wish we'd get a playtest for this, especially since it apparently "builds on Open Playtest" but isn't one itself. I'd love to see if the shifter is actually, you know, good at shifting. It would be great if it could shapeshift like a kineticist can blast: all day, regardless of how many times the shifter changes forms.

I really wish we'd get a playtest for this, especially since it apparently "builds on Open Playtest" but isn't one itself. I'd love to see if the shifter is actually, you know, good at shifting. It would be great if it could shapeshift like a kineticist can blast: all day, regardless of how many times the shifter changes forms.

We will know who to blame if it fails, so...

Dragonborn3 wrote:

I really wish we'd get a playtest for this, especially since it apparently "builds on Open Playtest" but isn't one itself. I'd love to see if the shifter is actually, you know, good at shifting. It would be great if it could shapeshift like a kineticist can blast: all day, regardless of how many times the shifter changes forms.

We will know who to blame if it fails, so...

...and that's exactly the kind of attitude that likely led to Paizo giving up on playtests :)

Which has the same reaction, more or less. It's unfortunate that it's going to lead to what is most likely a different kind of barbarian(shift rounds/day) or druid(shifting lasts unless yo swap forms) because Paizo and the Community can't actually help each other out. I think that's because of the terrible changes being made recently that remove options from the game or make no sense, but that's not a topic for this thread.

No it's mostly from the utter dumpsterfire of toxicity that was the last open playtest.

Well when it looks like no one is using the playtest results(the ones from actual play, mind you, not the "i don't like this, change it' threads)things happen.

The ones from actual play were very few compared to the threads started to discuss them.

Regardless that in no way excuses the f&!&ery that was the last playtest, where you had to dig through post after post of whining that the class exists to get to some actual criticism that you could learn from. You don't gain anything from all that negativity and toxicity.

Folks, probably a good idea to make a separate thread for discussions of playtests.

Folks, probably a good idea to make a separate thread for discussions of playtests.

A very good idea, but I have a feeling that the thread would crash and burn in flames.

Flames I say!!!

I really enjoyed the playtest for the Occult classes. Now as for the playtest for the Advanced Class Guide classes, that is a different story all together.

Well the last playtest was for the Vigilante class right? I actually really like the Vigilante class myself (Although IIRC I was largely in the minority)

I am excited about this shifter class though. Love me some shapeshifters. I wonder if we're gonna get the Pathfinder equivalent to artificers soon though.

No it's mostly from the utter dumpsterfire of toxicity that was the last open playtest.

The last one was the Vigilante, the one before that were the Occult classes... I grant you that ACG and MA playtests were rather toxic, and are still rather toxic subjects of discussions.

The Shifter is something people have been wishing for since the CRB first came out, and we know from experiences that people will be toxic about it in one way (hatred) or another (love) anyway. Can't please everyone.

I can't say that I've seen any examples of this "toxic love" around here... but this would certainly be the place for it. ^_^

"Toxic love", that reminds me I need to watch FernGully again:)

"Toxic love", that reminds me I need to watch FernGully again:)

Still can't remember if that was my first Tim curry movie.

Definitely the movie to watch to put you in the wilderness mood.. I need to base a game on this concept.

I can't say that I've seen any examples of this "toxic love" around here... but this would certainly be the place for it. ^_^

People defending stuff in an aggressive/annoying manners?

I wonder if this book will expand upon the rules for plant and vermin companions. Maybe even having stuff for magical beast and/or fey based companions.

Hm. Perhaps a cockroach companion? Think 'archie and mehitabel'. Okay, mehitabel was a cat. :-)

Perspicacious Wanderer wrote:

I am crossing my fingers for a dragon based archetype for the Shifter. I may finally be able to make Ryu from Breath of Fire.

Cross your fingers for a good/decent/usable one.

Yea, with some luck we'll get something that will let us create a dragon themed character that can turn into a dragon before the campaign is over. It is beyond annoying that most dragon shapeshifters don't get Form of the Dragon until level 13+.

Maybe we need a 'Form of the Lesser Dragon' or 'Form of the Drake' spell line so characters can get dragon-like forms at earlier levels.

Form of the fairy dragon, form of the pseudo dragon, etc.;)

*pause* Did the cover just change or am I imagining things...

*pause* Did the cover just change or am I imagining things...

I think it changed too.

No, that is the same cover it has been.

I'm pretty sure it's a little more green that it was last week.

Lets keep the thread on topic, discussion of playtests need to go elsewhere.

*pause* Did the cover just change or am I imagining things...

Cover image has not been changed recently and is still the mock up. ;)

Thank you for clarifying Sara Marie!

Can anyone say whether or not the Shifter is an at-will Shapeshifting class? I really don't want it to be just a different version of barabrian('shift' rounds instead of rage) or Druid. It would be awesome if it could shift as often as a Kineticist can blast.

It'll probably be a little while before we get information like that, though I wouldn't mind being proven wrong ^w^

I would also prefer it to be at will. I am hoping!

It's just... I know it's a capstone ability for Druids, but Druids also have either an animal companion or a domain and 9th level spells. Even just getting at-will around level 10 seems far too late for a new base class that's whole 'thing' is Shapeshifting.

Just keep pounce off the options until level 10 or so, like with barbarians, and there shouldn't be too many problems(besides people whining about how they are turning into big cats but can't full attack on a charge). :)

I'm pretty positive the class will have permeate shapeshifting potential. It will probably be like the synthesis summoner but actually balanced.