Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

3.00/5 (based on 59 ratings)
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

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Wild, untamed lands hold a wealth of mystery and danger, providing the perfect backdrop for heroic adventure. Whether adventurers are climbing mountains in search of a dragon's lair, carving their way through the jungle, or seeking a long-lost holy city covered by desert sands, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness gives them the tools to survive the wilds. A new 20-level base class, the shifter, puts animalistic powers into the hands—or claws—of player characters and villains alike, with new class features derived from animalistic attributes. Overviews of druidic sects and rituals, as well as new archetypes, character options, spells, and more, round out the latest contribution to the Pathfinder RPG rules!

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness is an invaluable hardcover companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness includes:

  • The shifter, a new character class that harnesses untamed forces to change shape and bring a heightened level of savagery to the battlefield!
  • Archetypes for alchemists, barbarians, bards, druids, hunters, investigators, kineticists, paladins, rangers, rogues, slayers, witches, and more!
  • Feats and magic items for characters of all sorts granting mastery over the perils of nature and enabling them to harvest natural power by cultivating magical plants.
  • Dozens of spells to channel, protect, or thwart the powers of natural environs.
  • New and expanded rules to push your animal companions, familiars, and mounts to wild new heights.
  • A section on the First World with advice, spells, and other features to integrate the fey realm into your campaign.
  • Systems for exploring new lands and challenging characters with natural hazards and strange terrain both mundane and feytouched.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-986-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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3.00/5 (based on 59 ratings)

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Good flavor, bad mechanics.

1/5

This book had everything to be great, the wilderness themed aspects of the game have a lot of potential and player interest, however the book seems a rushed production with a lot of mechanics that just disappoint.

The Shifter is a mess, the whole idea of the class sells a combat oriented master shapeshifter, and what you get is a underwhelming mockery of a combat druid. It's extremely weak and with uninspired mechanics.

Also on the options part, there are lots of useless feats and archetypes - some unplayable - what reminds me a lot of the 3.5 times. You can find some jewels like a fey themed rogue archetype that gets hexes, but they are rare.

Even with poor execution, the book is filled with great flavor, interesting concepts, really beautiful art and good new options, like items, familiars, animal companions and even useful plants.

It seems clear to me that the main problem with this book is the lack of playtest.

I would recommend buying it just for the flavor, but it's the worst pathfinder rulebook I've bought.


Where Uninspired and Lazy Intersect

1/5

I must say, I was quite excited for this book. Ever since the debacle that was 3.5 polymorphing, Paizo has seemed to do everything in their power to nerf everything that involves it, and avoid printing more content. Thus, the existence of the Shifter intrigued me, the many-formed wanderer is a staple of Fantasy fiction, but Druid has too much clutter in the way to allow everyone to enjoy it. I wanted a class that could shapeshift from the word go, with unique and interesting class features to support that choice.

What we got, is a combination of Monk, Druid, and Hunter, that takes the worst, least exciting, and least functional aspects from each. Several features are cut and pasted whole cloth from Druid, while Wild Shape has been nerfed to the point of being a mere shadow of its former self, a fact I will discuss later. The Aspects feature is a copy paste from the Hunter's base Animal Foci, with a minor progression added at 8th level, it even includes the limited duration and uses per day clause! Something that even the base hunter did away with under certain circumstances. But it's unfair to focus solely on what's been cribbed from other classes, lets talk about Shifter's Claws, one of the few new features added; and I think an accurate summary of my problems with Shifter in a nutshell

1. You only get claws. No matter your theme, no matter your animal aspects, you get claws. Yes, that includes the Frog and Snake Shifters. This decision baffles me. Why restrict the Shifter to only using claws? Is there an issue with allowing a bite? Or a gore? Or a slam? Or a tail slap? On a class designed around shape changing, the fact this is unusually static reeks of hurried design.

2. The claws scale in damage, but very poorly. Why not allow claws to scale at a similar speed to the Monk and Brawler's unarmed strikes? At low levels, a full attack with claws is essentially a flurry, while at upper levels, the flurry vastly outpaces the claws, because unarmed strikes benefit from iterative attacks.

3. Even the claws have a feature cribbed from the Monk, in the form of their scaling material/property changes. The only unique feature the Shifter will see in their first handful of levels, is still just a spruced up hand me down system.

As for the issue of Wildshape, first we need to talk about the Aspect changes. Unlike Hunter, which knows all their Animal Foci at 1st level, the Shifter is incredibly limited, knowing only ONE aspect at first level, and gaining another Aspect every five levels thereafter. That alone, is worrying when compared with the Hunter... but then there's the Wildshape. A Shifter can only Wildshape into a creature she has an Aspect for. Unlike a Druid, who has numerous advantages over a Shifter already, the Shifter is limited to transforming into a total of 5 animals over the course of their entire career. Forget about transforming into Elementals, or Plants, or any Aquatic creature, or any of the dozens of bizarre and useful forms a clever Druid can pick from. The Shifter gets five forms, drawn from a list of fifteen animals. I would also point out, that this Wildshape is limited in exactly the same way as the Druid's is, so the Shifter can't even be in their form for the entire day until higher levels.

This, right here, is the real crux of the issue with the Shifter. It's not even as good at Shapeshifting as a 9 Wisdom Druid or Feral Hunter.

The rest of the book suffers from the same issues as many paizo hardcovers of late, namely large numbers of misprints that greatly alter the power of abilities. Many archetypes that are seemingly designed for NPC usage, or are simply trap options for less savvy players (The Ooze Shifter may be the new gold standard for this, given that it can't wear any magic items when in natural form.); combined with a large number of reprints and nerfs to spells and abilities people enjoyed using. If you look hard enough, there are a few things worth using, such as the Wildshaping Warpriest, or the Mapmaker Investigator, but those diamonds are few and far between.

1/5 - Absolutely Do Not Purchase.


Lots of great stuff.

5/5

Dedicated shifter class. Even if you don't like the class, it still means there's now a class that will receive exclusively shifting-focused archetypes.

Feats. Dust the bad ones aside, and enjoy rage totem powers on non-Barbarians, wildblooded bloodlines on non-Sorcerers, some nice options for Shifter, and more.

Archetypes. So many great ones! Highlights include a venomous Brawler, a Monk with Kineticist powers, a Kineticist that uses all the elements based on their surroundings, and a Shifter that's an ooze. Animal companions and familiars get in on the action too!

Rules. Lots of cool foraging rules, and much more detailed weather rules. Plus, rules for salvaging magic items and the like when you're leagues from a handy marketplace.

Price. If you grab the PDF, it's just ten bucks. Seriously, go for it.


Overwhelmingly Underwhelmed

2/5

This is the first time I can remember that I've felt so disappointed at a Paizo product.

New content quality ranges from amazing to outright dysfunctionally broken . For every Green Knight Cavalier or Forester Hunter there's an utterly unplayable mess like Wilderness Warden or Nature-Bonded Magus. The "patch and reprint" policy is still going strong here, with a pretty good sized chunk of content being reprints. But most people don't care as much about that, so without further ado...

The Shifter Class sucks. It looks, both in design and formatting, like a playtest version of a proper class. The class seems to have started as some sort of Druid/Monk hybrid (cribbing a bit from the Hunter), and was just not developed from there. As it stands, the Shifter is inferior in the niche it seems to fill (shapeshifting themed beatstick) to Druids, Mooncursed Barbarians, Feral Shifters, and even Metamorph Alchemist. The archetypes, while flavorful, are sharply limited, when the entire draw of shapeshifting is flexibility and versatility.

That aside, there was some good content here. The expanded list of familiar and animal companion options is welcome (even with some reprints), the mundane/alchemical equipment is equal parts amusing and useful. Some of the archetypes are amazing.

Final Verdict: The book needs to go back in the figurative oven for a while, some of the content is still uncooked.


Mixed bag

3/5

I like some things about this book. From a fluff standpoint, the art and the flavor text are all rock solid, as most hardcover Paizo books are.

From a mechanics standpoint, you get a lot of new archetypes, a lot of new feats, some new rules on being out in the 'wilderness', some new spells, and the new class, the Shifter.

The Shifter is full BAB, 2/3 Fort 2/3 Ref 1/3 Will, no spells, wild shape sorta like the druid but a bit different, has a few things that only druids had before, and can get WIS to AC if no armor (or 1/2 WIS to AC if in druid armor). There are several problems with the class, outlined in many of the reviews posted after mine. I think, like many, the class is poorly designed. -1 star.

I give this book huge props for the section 'Spells of the Wild' that starts on page 156. Its good to acknowledge how magic, in a lot of cases, nullifies the challenge of wilderness settings. The section where they talk about how create food and water combined with the 0th level spell purify food and water make survival checks to forage food basically useless. Good on Paizo for going over this stuff.

Another issue, reprints. This book contains reprints. Not a ton like the Adventurer's Guide, but enough that it is noticeable.

Lastly, the problem of too many feats, archetypes, and spells are awful. Borderline useless. This happens a lot in Pathfinder over the last few years, Horror Adventures had very similar problems. I would rather have fewer choices that are meaningful. As it is right now, I feel like it adds to the bloat issue.

3 out of 5 stars.


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Ed Reppert wrote:
Has anyone done a comparison of the shifter with Kobold Games' skin-changer?

That question probably doesn't belong in the Product Discussion thread...

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Fourshadow wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Has anyone done a comparison of the shifter with Kobold Games' skin-changer?
That question probably doesn't belong in the Product Discussion thread...

Well, neither do "I want my PDF so badly ... I still don't have it!" posts :)


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Has anyone done a comparison of the shifter with Kobold Games' skin-changer?
That question probably doesn't belong in the Product Discussion thread...
Well, neither do "I want my PDF so badly ... I still don't have it!" posts :)

I think the question is fine here, or I would have asked it somewhere else. I would agree that long discussion of the comparison would not belong here, but "yes" or "no" would imo be fine.


I can see why you wished those archetypes stacked though I would have loved a spontaneous caster version myself.

Shadow Lodge

I can understand why they don't, but man would it be cool. Sort of like a Two Pact* wizard going into the Stargazer prestige class.

*There are two different archetypes for Wizard that are both called Pact Wizard. They stack and it is hilarious.


They have the same name and they stack, that is hilarious.


Fourshadow wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Has anyone done a comparison of the shifter with Kobold Games' skin-changer?
That question probably doesn't belong in the Product Discussion thread...

If you think something doesn't belong, flag it and move on.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sorry that I brought up a lot in my post. I feel that there are times that the message 'oh you can house rule that' or 'oh there is home brew for that' when the reality is that, if paizo content isn't produced, I don't get to use it. I honestly don't care if the shifter is terrible or the book is poorly edited; what I care about is that poorly made material that is clearly divisive takes up design space, at the expense of things like the following:

Cernunnos, empeyreal lord of the wilderness not getting any material in six years.

As one reviewer pointed out, no additions or corrections to mounted combat.

As another reviewer pointed out, magical plants significantly more expensive and less viable then the creation of a magic item equivalent.

Zero expansion of campaign, build points, wilderness buildings, etc, despite bandits and settlement building being a big and popular deal.

Details of how the 20 core deities, the other emperyeal lords, demon lords, or green faith ,interact with the eldest.

The Green Faith getting any updates at all.

Monster settlements.

Yes, I can house rule and home brew whatever I want. However, as evidenced by the people waiting for this to hit PFS, if I am NOT in a home brew game, I don't get to use this material. I don't get answers, and it will be another three to six years before something else comes out.

In short, a deeply divisive, poorly edited starter class meant to be a "quick pick up" for people who don't understand druids and don't want to read a basic guide stole design space in a book that was - based on previous editions of the ultimate series - meant to be a go to quick guide for "title"-related material. This is in addition to wilderness related reprints, which anyone interested in wilderness material already had, either in part or in full. Like... As I said, the design decisions seem less than informed by paizo material and more to just be some stuff thrown together to create a poorly edited, poorly received, clearly divisive book. One person said they thought the book would be fine if the shifter didn't exist; I think people would still be less than enthused, but simply have less objectively contentious targets.

Anyways tldr i think some broader questions could be asked on other fronts earlier on to prevent a great deal of irritation and headaches on the back end


1 person marked this as a favorite.

While I agree about "poorly made material taking up game space" issue, none of the things you listed was anything I was expecting from the book or have any real interest in seeing in a player options focus based book.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Official changes to the shifter and comments on play-testing from Paizo's Director of Game Design.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
While I agree about "poorly made material taking up game space" issue, none of the things you listed was anything I was expecting from the book or have any real interest in seeing in a player options focus based book.

Meanwhile I think RPG core line books shouldn't be just player focused options books, but GM rule books as well, I still agree that none of things listed was anything I've seen anyone expecting from rpg line of books


What exactly did they change/nerf about the Lore Warden?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

No longer a flat bonus to CMB/D, instead a selection of options including the brawlers bonus to a single maneuver. Also made Combat Expertise a virtual feat only counting for prereqs at 2nd, becoming the full feat at 6th. And taking away the 2nd level bonus feat as well.


I really don't see the reason for that nerf at all. The Lore Warden wasn't that strong to begin with.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It was strong enough to be the default Fighter archetype for anybody who wanted to optimise the class.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
I really don't see the reason for that nerf at all. The Lore Warden wasn't that strong to begin with.

I think they overdid the Combat Expertise nerf, but they really did need to at least cut the CMB bonus in half for balance reasons.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just another reason to have an unchained fighter then;)


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Let's please not get another thread locked because of the NerfWarden.

Dark Archive

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Really though, only thing I want is that someone updates fighters to have 4 + int skills per level. I mean, its the only martial without spellcasting that has 2 + int skill ranks. Even barbarian has 4 + int


CorvusMask I highly agree with you about the skill point thing. Though I also feel that no class should have less then 4+Int skill points.

In fact I really wish it was sett up like this...

Martials would have 6+Int skill points
Full casters would get 4+int skill points
Skill focused classes would have 8+Int(except rogue would be 10+Int)
All other classes would range from 4-6+int skill points.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Manager

10 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed a post with a derisive tone and language that is inappropriate for our website and replies to that post. It's okay to critique and discuss what you don't feel works for you or your gaming group, but you need to do so in a manner that remains respectful to the community discussion taking place on our forum.


Wild growth Hex linked to charisma?

Was just reading the Wild Growth Hex feat and wondered that it was linked to the witch's charisma rather than the usual hex-related intelligence score.

Could it be that the charisma carried over from Wild Growth Channel?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Is there any notification when we can expect this to be in additional resources?

I understand the Shifter may be on hold due to tweaking, but the Archetypes and magical enchants can add flavor now.

I have had players ask about it while in PFS and i have to just deny until it is legal. I personally want to make a Shifter even though they are not ideal.

As for the Shifter aspects -

-Is there any thought to add the ability modifier away from enhancement bonus and just to a size (as polymorph), competence, sacred, or untyped?

Also allow the Shifter to change into its limited form unlimited back and forth once the hour marker is set?


If they make aspects grant a size bonus instead of enhancement bonuses it wouldn't stack with the bonuses from wild shape since they are size bonuses as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

With the big announcement, I think it is fair to say that there will never be a reprint of Ultimate Wilderness, so the shifter is stuck more or less as is. I expect it was a test of the reception to the new design paradigms...


Mm, I don't think that is fair to say at all. We're still looking at over a year of official support for Pathfinder. And I imagine we are going to get a pocket edition of Ultimate Wilderness eventually, so there's your reprint.


That would be very very crappy of Paizo to not at least fix the Shifter before they abandon us 1e Pathfinder players for good.


The weather rules fail to address how much snow melts when the temperature rises above freezing. A warm spell of a day or two probably isn't going to melt multiple feet of snow...

Dark Archive

About the Pose as Scenery plant companion trick: can anyone provide advice on how to improve that Disguise check? I don't think it's a class skill for animal companions, and many plant companions have a low Cha which works against that +8 Disguise check. The only thing I'm thinking right now is hat of disguise and I'm not sure plant companions can even equip that magic item...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! thank you!

PS: under the Bestiary's description of the Plant type, we have this "The following are class skills for plants: Perception and Stealth." which leads me to think this Pose as Scenery trick may have been intended for Stealth instead of Disguise.

Dark Archive

Mark Seifter wrote:
Glad to see you guys are excited!

Hi Mark - could you please provide any thoughts on using Stealth instead of Disguise for 'Pose as Scenery' trick?

Any insight would be much appreciated.


bump


Within this book, Paizo introduced a lot of very nice, but badly implemented ideas:

The "Mastering the Wild" chapter is full of amazing ideas...

...foraging and salvaging...harvesting poisons...crafting trophies...

...all ideas that have been already tentatively proposed in other supplements, like in the Monster Hunter Handbook or the Dragonslayer Handbook...in fact the idea of using monster body parts to spend less on magic item creation has been proposed over and over by Paizo authors, but never in a coherent way and never in a non-splat-book (which are always sort of self-contained half-forgotten material) format...

...with Ultimate Wilderness we saw such attempt, but Paizo left a lot of holes into it:

With the excuse of providing "explanations" (valid for Pathfinder Society only) on Rule Clarifications, they literally stopped to "patch up" half-baked rules in the FAQ and excluding a rule from PFS seems a easy way to not address the fact that Paizo is releasing more and more material with half-baked unpolished rules...

On top of it Paizo seems to be abusing its "rule clarification" and "rule adjustment" authority to nerf old material and provide for itself and easy, very un-creative and not correct way of making "new" material:

Un-nerfing old material through additional options in new paid resources.

On top of it within the splat-book there is the ever-increasing tendency of putting silly "special class only" or "special race only" or by abusing the archetype stacking rules to make archetype impossible to combine that is something that has an action-figure-like approach that not even action figures had in them:

Feats, archetypes, etc... cannot be combined...are supposed to work only with that splat-book material...and splat-book never get any serious rule clarification, apart from the whatever PFS-legal material included in it (and most half-cooked rules, talents, etc... get simply removed from PFS material to avoid saying a word about them)...

I am under the impression that lack of clarification on the "Mastering the Wild" chapter of an hardcover book shows that Paizo has become a much less serious and player-oriented ("enthusiasts'") publishing company and more a grey money-focused company who only cares about "fire and forgetting" books:

While an ideal approach would suggest to not have "orphan" materials like splat books who never get an explanation for brilliant but half-done rules, the hard cover materials should be at least paid enough attention to get an in-deep treatment of the most half-baked rules within them...would have been nice to understand how the Ultimate Wilderness rules about harvesting monster parts could have been "interlocked" with previous splat-books material...but no...

Paizo merely seems to launch new lines...new editions...while leaving a lot of the stuff they do half-done and half-baked...

...even the fact that they turned Archives of Nethys into the SRD source....while AoN is a very good and well-done source, it shows us that Paizo is "cutting" anything who doesn't make "quick cash":

The SRD...the FAQs...have always received a very limited and delayed treatment...the SRD have been "to be updated" since ages...and the SRD update was supposed to come with a lot of rule clarifications, not just focused on PFS...but with this move that long-repeated promise is "gone"...

I frankly think would be nice if Paizo started providing a serious (and not PFS-only) rule clarification on its books, else frankly they seem to be taking the old TSR-path: A myriad of "fire-and-forget" incoherent and unsupported books just to make "quick cash" and forget about them.

I don't think TSR's path is a good path for a publishing company to take, considering how TSR ended up!

Skarm

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It’s not fire and forget, it’s that FAQs literally provide no income while also having plenty of requirements to be met to made (the Designers all being together and not being busy, etc). And people universally got mad when they were put so *shrugs*


I wouldn't say "literally" no income, at least not without throwing a "direct" in there as well. FAQs and errata show that Paizo is willing to fix the bugs in their own product, raising customer confidence and making it more likely they'll actually buy the next book when it comes out (even if it looks broken.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The noise from the forums is the exact opposite. "Why bother buying something that's going to be 'outdated' almost immediately".

I don't agree with that mindset and agree your's isn't unfounded, it's just there's absolutely no way to gauge that FAQs produce any profits. You make a book, put out a book, book sells, profit.


People ask for FAQs that resolve incomprehensible or broken (in the sense they don't work at all, not that they work too well) published rules, which would enhance sales for those doing research and learning a book contains busted material.

Paizo also (sometimes) provides (sometimes) unasked for FAQs that nerf stuff, suppressing sales in the way you mention by harming confidence in the clear and workable rules that they have published.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The FAQ turning out the way you didn't want it to does not make it unasked for, that's how the FAQs work, someone had to be asking for them.

Also your statements contradict each other. "FAQs increase sales." "FAQs decrease sales" Whether they make things work better or nerf is usually up to interpretation.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

About the Pose as Scenery plant companion trick: can anyone provide advice on how to improve that Disguise check? I don't think it's a class skill for animal companions, and many plant companions have a low Cha which works against that +8 Disguise check.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! thank you!

PS: under the Bestiary's description of the Plant type, we have this "The following are class skills for plants: Perception and Stealth." which leads me to think this Pose as Scenery trick may have been intended for Stealth instead of Disguise.


Rysky wrote:

The FAQ turning out the way you didn't want it to does not make it unasked for, that's how the FAQs work, someone had to be asking for them.

Also your statements contradict each other. "FAQs increase sales." "FAQs decrease sales" Whether they make things work better or nerf is usually up to interpretation.

My statements do not contradict each other; you were simply unable to understand the difference between the two statements. One suggested that an unmet FAQ need would potentially enhance sales (slightly), the other that an undesired (outside of PFS GMs) FAQs actually being produced are potentially reducing sales (slightly).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No I get what you're thinking, it's just not how it is. There's not a unified pile of "These are the FAQs everyone loves/wants" and "No one wanted these FAQs".

Liberty's Edge

Is there an official errata yet? I know Paizo was neck deep in PF2, but it's also been one year since the Feb 2018 FAQ entries.

The "free downloads" web link now goes to the PF2 pre-order page...

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